• Report: #110291

Complaint Review: David Hall Rare Coins

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  • Submitted: Mon, September 27, 2004
  • Updated: Sat, July 07, 2012

  • Reported By:Oirt Chester New York
David Hall Rare Coins
www.davidhall.com Newport Beach, California U.S.A.

David Hall Rare Coins, DHRC, David Hall's Numismatic Investment Group Ripoff -- "A Chimp Could Have Assembled a Better Portfolio" Newport Beach California

*Consumer Comment: I Stand By My Complaint

*Consumer Comment: I Stand By My Complaint

*Consumer Comment: I have been...

*Consumer Comment: David Hall Rare Coins Does Not Guarantee a Market for Your Coins

*Author of original report: The Coins Guy Is Full of It

*Consumer Comment: The Rare Coin market is extremely volitile

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In May of 1986, a man who claimed to be a world leading coin expert and investment advisor, David Hall, prepared one of his "winning" client porfolios for me. I paid $5002 for 12 coins. One year later, a statement from Mr. Hall indicated the coins were worth only $2095. At the time, I was shocked and angry. Feeling duped, I went to the main post office (Brooklyn, NY) to complain to postal investigators, who said they'd do an investigation. (Nothing happened.) I also complained to Mr. Hall, but received no response whatsoever. Being rather young and naive at the time, I put my coins in a safe deposit box and hoped for the best, believing they'd likely go up in value with time.

Today I discovered that despite the fact rare coins have gone up 21.4% on average EACH year over the past 10 years (source: Salomon Brothers: www.stacks.com/collintro1.htm), my portfolio of coins assembled by Mr. Hall -- for which I paid $5002 18 years ago -- is today worth a mere $2,251 (at most).

I ask you, was this the work of a world reknowned expert? I dare say anyone could have picked coins at random out of a 1986 coin catalog, charged me FULL price for them at the time of purchase, and today I would have discovered that I had made a killing thanks to: a.) random selection of coins and b.) the booming rare coin market of the past 10 years -- and before! Here is the list of dogs Mr. Hall dumped on me in May 1986:

1929 10cent MS64FB
1937S 10cent MS66
1943S 10cent MS64FB
1936D 50cent MS64
1938D 50cent MS64
1943 50cent MS65
1881S Silver Dollar MS65
1924 Silver Dollar MS64
1962 50Cent PR65 (4 coins of this type)

Frank
Port Chester, New York
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 09/27/2004 08:36 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/David-Hall-Rare-Coins/Newport-Beach-California-92658/David-Hall-Rare-Coins-DHRC-David-Halls-Numismatic-Investment-Group-Ripoff-A-Chimp-C-110291. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
0Author 6Consumer 0Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Comment

I Stand By My Complaint

AUTHOR: Joe 12 - ()

A couple of people here have defended Mr. Hall. Frankly, I don't understand why. As I wrote, I tried to settle my problem with Mr. Hall, but he refused to respond by phone or mail. Today I have the same set of crappy coins -- a "portfolio" that this so-called expert assembled for me back in 1986. If Mr. Hall had been operating in an above-board manner, I believe he would have spoken with me in an effort to achieve some sort of resolution. He did not. And his avoidance of me, speaks volumes about his motive and character, at least as far as I'm concerned.
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#2 Consumer Comment

I Stand By My Complaint

AUTHOR: Joe 12 - ()

A couple of people here have defended Mr. Hall. Frankly, I don't understand why. As I wrote, I tried to settle my problem with Mr. Hall, but he refused to respond by phone or mail. Today I have the same set of crappy coins -- a "portfolio" that this so-called expert assembled for me back in 1986. If Mr. Hall had been operating in an above-board manner, I believe he would have spoken with me in an effort to achieve some sort of resolution. He did not. And his avoidance of me, speaks volumes about his motive and character, at least as far as I'm concerned.
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#3 Consumer Comment

I have been...

AUTHOR: Austin Simmons - (United States of America)

a consumer of DHRC since 1986. YES, David has his share of mistakes.... Of course im sure this reader has NEVER mad a mistake. But i know everyone else has. I believe it is the persons mistake for being a sheep and accepting anything David had said. I believe David was, and still is, THE leading expert in rare coins. I have lost, along with made, money on what david has said... Just like any other expert. I believe people should be accountable for their own actions. Same situation as if someone bought a stock and it went down, THEIR PROBLEM. I am sure many people have recommended things that have not worked out. So deal with it. 
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#4 Consumer Comment

David Hall Rare Coins Does Not Guarantee a Market for Your Coins

AUTHOR: Richard - (U.S.A.)

First I want to relate a similar complaint that I recently saw about DHRC and the fair and reasonable rebuttal that was offered by Mr. Van Simmons of DHRC:

A gentleman in September, 2006 purchased ten 1924 St. Gaudens coins at $2495.00 each. He claims the DHRC web site showed their value at $3300 each. However, he says now (in July 2008) he was offered just $2500 each which after shipping costs is a loss. The price of gold he reports has doubled in that time. He makes reference to the words 'pariah' and 'charlatan' in his experience.

Mr. Van Simmons sheds some light on the apparent misguided customer. The $3300 figure on the web site was merely an average retail price on the coins that the PCGS price guide puts up. The actual current published price on his web site for the coin was $2950. Now if you do a little simple math you'll find that if he is offering just $15% below his published price. I think anyone should be able to consider that a fair markup for a rare pre-1933 gold coin, which is not just any old bullion coin.

As for the price of gold doubling during the period he owned the coin, rare gold coins do not necessarily follow the price of gold, they may lag the price and they may skyrocket above the price of gold. Mr. Simmons makes no secret that the rare coin market has lagged the price of gold which makes the investment ever more ready to skyrocket as it is known in the past to have done (such as it did in the 1980's). We don't know if the writer of the original complaint report requested a wider variety of coins as opposed to a narrower but higher end investment-worthy coin portfolio. But either way, DHRC should not be accountable for what the rare coin market will do in the future, let the buyer be ware. DHRC makes no secret that investment in rare coins is a very long term investment - the kind you buy, put in the drawer and forget about for a couple decades or more. Rare coins are much more likely to be positioned for a big move now because they are now at the lowest price to melt value as they have ever been. The author of the complaint bought at a time where just the opposite was true. He has none-the-less requested of DHRC an investment portfolio of coins at a bad time in the cycle. DHRC sells coins. They do not tell you what the coin market will do. You have to determine that yourself. If asked, they will give you their educated and informed opinion. I have no affiliation with them or any vested interest in supporting them. However, I have done business with DHRC more than once and have found them to be a highly reputable dealer who we now know will buy back your coins at just a 15% spread. Even bullion has spreads are 4% on up. These are pre-1933 rare coins.

They do not charge discount prices but they do charge reasonable prices and they provide knowledge and expertise in the rare coin field over the phone or by email. They offer a newsletter available on their web site that is very, very informative.
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#5 Author of original report

The Coins Guy Is Full of It

AUTHOR: Frank - (U.S.A.)

Dear Mr. Coins Guy:

The portfolio Hall assembled dropped several thousand dollars in two months of his assembling it. The gold and silver boom you refer to had nothing to do with it. Hall created his own market, setting the prices to suit himself. He scammed me and other coin novices pure and simple, and he's never wanted to make matters right since. In fact, you can see that he has never even responded to my report despite the fact I have e-mailed it to him numerous times. Is that the response of an innocent man? I didn't think so. What's your motive for supporting this miscreant?

Another one of Hall's sheared sheep
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#6 Consumer Comment

The Rare Coin market is extremely volitile

AUTHOR: Edward - (U.S.A.)

I'm sorry your invest dropped by 50% and I know you feel bad that it has. However, in David Hall's defense, the rare coin market is extremely volitile with prices going up and down all the time. You say you bought these 18 years ago and that was at the height of the gold and silver boom back in the early late 70s/early 80s. Everything was outrageously priced. Gold was $800 an ounce, silver was $50. Then the boom went bust and not only investor portfolios were blown away, so were many coin dealers as they got stuck with coins they paid $1000 for that they would be lucky to sell for $100. It was a horrible devastation brought on by primarily the Hunt Brothers who tried to corner the silver market. Buying into the height of a boom is not a wise move.

The coins David Hall sold you probably were worth $5 grand back then. Its not his fault they are not now tho. Its the nature of the market and what you bought was not very rare to begin with. You would have been better off spending as much as you could on 1 or 2 truly rare coins rather than 12 not so rare coins. To be honest, unless you really know what you are doing or work with a dealer you know well and have done business with before, you shouldn't "invest" in coins anyway. You will probably lose every time.

Ultimately you can avoid a situation like the one you got caught in by working with 2 or 3 dealers and talking to them about what it is you want to do, then asking each of them to quote you a price on what you finally settle upon.

The Coins Guy
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