- Report: #442282
Report - Rebuttal - Arbitrate
Complaint Review: Lincoln College Of Technology, LTI, Lincoln Tech Instutite
Lincoln College Of Technology, LTI, Lincoln Tech Instutite2915 Alouette Dr. Grand Prairie, Texas U.S.A.
Lincoln Technical Instutite, LTI, Lincoln College Of Technology It's a SCAM, A $23,400.00 SCAM,YES $23,400.00 Grand Prairie Texas
*Consumer Comment: Rebuttal to ZRAI...
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: lincoln college of technology is a rip-off
*Consumer Comment: lincoin tech auto school
*UPDATE Employee: An Explanation of the Program
*Consumer Suggestion: rip off
*Consumer Comment: You cant expect everything at graduation
First, allow me to give a little info about myself. I am not a 18 year old kid that is mad at the school, I myself am a 31 year old that loves working on cars that decided after spending 8 years traveling and living out of a suitcase and hotel room that it was time to start over and begin a new career that would allow me to spend more time at home with my family. In comes Lincoln College of Technology (the only school in North Texas that offered an accredited ASE course program).
Now when I first attended a walkthrough with a recruiter I was given the royal treatment, was taken into classrooms to be shown all of the " trainers " ( these are in all of the classrooms, boards set up to simulate a component or series of components on a vehicle). I was even taken out behind the school to be shown all of the trainer vehicles that were also available to be trained with and worked on by students. Of course listened to the recruiter talk up the school for a couple of hours during the walkthrough and tried to dismiss about half of what was being said and take the other half with a grain of salt.
I had taken the time to do a little research of my own about the school that I intended on attending only to learn that not a lot was being said in a positive light about the school but being a grown man I tried to use a little " positive adult thinking " and try to assume that I was going to get out of the school whatever I was willing to put into it. Well when it's all said and done I will have spent $23,400.00 dollars yes, $23,400.00 dollars for an education that very few places will take seriously. For example, the campus that I attend is in Grand Prairie, Texas; across the street from the school is Holt Caterpillar. One would think that for a student attending the diesel program that this would be a great place for the school to build a relationship with and start sending students for jobs. Catapillar doesn't want them, WHY, (my opinion based from what I have heard at the school not only from the students but from the instructors as well)because students in the past that were trying to obtain employment were unable to complete a repair properly, couldn't pass the pre-employment drug screen, couldn't show up to work, etc. Just FYI it's not just Holt, most places in the area look at the school like it's a joke mainly because of the practices that take place at the school by students and instructors alike.
Now here is the part where you want to say well that isn't the school that is the students, and yes that is very true but only to some degree. The problem however is the school has done nothing to help improve it. Now I will go as far to say that in the past year I have seen some changes but not sure that I would be willing to call them improvements. What does this mean to a new attendee, with the exception of a select few the majority of the graduates that actually will start working in the automotive field will start out doing oil changes for a lube shop making 8 or 9 dollars an hour. (The exact same job that the same 18 or 19 year old could walk in and obtain just as easily without spending the money for the piece of paper the school is going to give you upon graduation).
Upon being accepted you're honestly given the impression that you have accomplished something by being accepted by the school. You're given the third degree about how important and serious the school is about providing an education, and about how if accepted then you will be part of the elite so to speak. Your contacts are called and used as character witnesses on your behalf and then you show up the first day and sit though a month or so and start to realize that the things that you're read on the internet really were true.
If you would like a more straight forward response try this one, In order to attend this school it comes out to $18.00 per hour to go to school and sit in the class. I would say that about 95% of the jobs that are obtainable for a fresh graduate are going to pay about half of what you're being charged for the education in the first place. Is there room for advancement sure there is once you become an ASE Master Certified Technician. Not something that you can obtain from this school(ASE certification requires 2 years work experience(this school can be used to cover one year of that requirement) and you have to pass the ASE test in the related area. The school advertises a Master Certified Automotive Technician program (then tells you when you start that you will be taught entry level skills (how does that work?)), leaving out the ASE part because they cannot certify you. That has to be done by taking ASE tests (not available though the school you are simply handed an ASE pamphlet and told that there is the ASE information needed to find out about testing) and by having the 2 years of related job experience.
Now, let's start with the actual courses, for the automotive program (the one that I myself am currently attending) I have upon writing this, completed 11 of the 13 classes, and am currently in my 12. I show up to school, do my work, and pay attention in class (hence myself being able to give such a detailed description of what really goes on here). I maintain 3.9 GPA, no it's not a perfect 4.0 but close.
My first class Intro - a joke let's talk about shop procedures for 20 days, even better let's talk about how the instructor is offering his wife and step daughter to the students like they are a piece of meat. Or how about being instructed about how to start clapping when someone from the front office is approaching the classroom so that he can stop talking about whatever and start talking about something that pertains to class (was honestly told to do this in an effort to keep the instructors out of trouble with the front office personnel, this is the honest truth). Was given my school provided work wear and tools in this class, consisting of 5 pairs of work pants(that even having the correct size labeled on them didn't fit - and good luck on getting them replaced - quickly found out that it was much easier to simply go out on my own and purchase pants that actually fit). OH, if you don't were work pants to class then you're not in line with the dress code and you're sent home. 5 Shirts, a pair of safety glasses, a multimeter, and the school issued tool box (a $300.00 value with a $1000.00 price tag)
Now I could sit here and talk about the rest of the classes about the same way as my intro class however, I kinda think that you get the idea. Now in all fairness not all of the classes were this way......JUST MOST! Now here is where I tell you to listen to what you have read not just from myself but all of the other reports on the internet and find another option for an education but I know that most people have to see it to believe it ( I myself are one of those individuals).
I can sit here from personal experience and tell you that I first hand was told on multiple occasions by instructors that it was ok for me to work under a vehicle that was on a lift knowing that the safety latches were out of order.(lift shouldn't have been in service in the first place). The trainers that were mentioned earlier, most of them look new because the students are required to clean them daily ( gotta have things in tip top shape at all times for the sake of recruiters that are trying to sell the program) Just FYI, most of those trainers that were pointed out in the beginning DON'T WORK, in fact in 12 months at this school I have worked on 3 of those trainers and on 2 school vehicles, no typo there I really said 2 cars in 12 months, am I lazy, well I have a accumulative GPA of 3.9, you tell me? The fact of the matter is this place is doing nothing more than taking hard earned money from uninformed people and using it to line their pockets.
Now in all fairness the school does use ASE Master Certified Technicians as Instructors. What you will learn (because the instructors will flat out tell you) is that most of them are there for the benefits and not the pay and that it's almost impossible for them to lose their job (need an example). The instructor that I had for automotive manual transmissions and drivelines didn't teach anything (true story). I spend $18.00 per hour to sit in his class. Now these classes are 20 class days long without the weekends and 6 hours per day a class comes out to $1800.00 dollars. So for $1800.00 dollars what did I get, I did get a manual transmission to take apart and reassemble in a group of 5 other people. No for the money that is spent for the class you don't get a training aid of your own you share one with 5 other students (this is the norm in any class with any and all available training aides). When I asked the education supervisor how could one be expected to learn anything when 6 people are trying to disassemble and reassemble one transmission his response was, " well there just isn't enough room in the class for students to have their own to work on " my response then was how can anything be learned from an instructor that is never in class that is supposed to be responsible for teaching the basics of manual transmissions to 30 students in 20 class days using 5 manual transmissions. The Education Supervisors response was him yelling at me for not bringing this to his attention sooner (how can something be done about it if I don't know is what he said (I was pretty sure he knew but anyway)). This is the same instructor the Edu. Supervisor says to me well I will talk to him and take care of it, he's a good friend of mine and a good instructor and he is going though alot with his divorce and all........OK then if that is truly the case how in the world can this same instructor 6 months later look at his diesel transmissions and drivelines class and tell them that he isn't gonna teach them anything because he is pissed off at the school for making him teach the class that he told them he didn't want to teach(was not actually in the class just heard the same story from most of the people that I knew that were actually in that class). Good thing the Edu. Supervisor did his job huh? Unfortunately, most of the classes are like this, this isn't simply an isolated incident.
Do we want to talk about that job placement that is offered, Holt Catapillar is just one of many(most) automotive and/or diesel businesses that have no interest in Lincoln Tech graduates Why because they know that the education that is received is below second rate. What does this mean? Well, Lincoln Tech prides itself in their job placement so please allow me to break it down for you. The school recently had a job fair,
Here is who was there,
Firestone - Ok not a dealership but at least there looking for technicians, it's a start. (Now I say not a dealership for a couple of reasons 1. I have never seen a dealership in the school trying to recruit anyone and 2. I kinda expected to see someone from a dealership at some point in my time there simply because every classroom that you walk up to with the recruiter and enter the recruiter is very quick to explain how some dealership in the area sponsors that classroom).
Mary Kay Cosmetics - WHY, to recruit people not to work on cars, trucks, tractors, and or semi-trailers but to sell cosmetics - REALLY, yes REALLY!
Chase Bank - Now why in the world would Chase Bank be at an automotive school you ask, well trying to recruit technicians to work on armored trucks right? NOPE, the just want you to open a checking account with them.
Bank of America - SEE CHASE BANK ABOVE
AutoZone - Well were not going to school to work a parts counter but at least it was automotive related.
T/A (Truck stops of America) - One of the school favorites simply because if you have a criminal record then this is the place that assuming you didn't kill anyone you probably have a fairly good opportunity to obtain employment.
Big Job fair huh? Well that is only half of it the other half is this, You're not only told about the JOB BOARD at the school but your encouraged to start there if you're looking for a job (in the field that pertains to your study?, not normally) Like I said the reputation that the school has will local business isn't very good. So, about 80% to 90% of the jobs that are listed are crap that the career services pulled out of the paper, not jobs that the school really has some kind of inside track on.
Now, how can I forget about the job placement (you maintain a 3.5 GPA and at least 95% attendance your eligible to intern after your 11th class). The intern process goes something as follows: I was given the initial intern packet by the intern coordinator filled it out and turned it back in and then was handed the second packet. Nothing about shops or dealerships in the area that needed employees, but in my second intern packet it was actually in writing that I was suppose to seek the place of my choice and not go and apply for a job but to approach the service manager of the shop or dealership as a representative of Lincoln College of Technology and explain to them the LTI Internship Program (isn't this the Intern Coordinators job?) obtain a business card from the manager and then return to school, hand the card to the Intern Coordinator so that he can then call the shop and try to persuade them to hire you. (SIDE NOTE: The school is aware of its reputation of being less than desirable to most employers so they actually tell you in writing in your intern packet that you will probably have to go to several shops in order to find someone that has an interest in working with you)
The school recently changed from Lincoln Technical Institute to Lincoln College of Technology (yeah). The academics classes that are offered at the school for the associates program are not classes that you're taking from an instructor, these are classes that one of your ASE Master Certified Technician instructors takes you down to a computer lab and sets you in front of a computer so that you can take these classes online, yes ONLINE. These instructors are teaching the Associate Program because they themselves have a degree of some type (in order for an instructor to teach the associate program they themselves must have a degree of some type).
Now there is some good instruction that does come from the instructors at this school it isn't all bad, the problem is that the good instruction isn't enough to overlook all of the bad. This school does what it needs to do in order to get people in the door however that needs to be done. Once your there you simply become another number and another source of income for the school. Please take some time and think about what you want for yourself and/or your child before you step into this place even with one foot.
Just remember this: It takes $23,400.00 dollars to attend the 13 month automotive program at Lincoln Tech. (the recruiter will not tell you that, you don't find that out until you're in the middle of your financial aid paperwork and after you have been pumped up by the recruiter and financial aid enough that you can be persuaded into it). When it's all said and done with your going to wind up with a certificate that isn't work the paper that it's printed on, A tool box that if your lucky hasn't had the tools in it stolen by other students or the entire tool box (that your charged way too much for in the first place, Napa tools are provided because the school has a contract with them and has one located on site at the school). Side note the school does have security cameras in place however in the year that I have attended have known of about 6 or so tool boxes that have been stolen from other students and when the students try to get something done about are typically given the excuse that the tapes were reset for the cameras, that one camera isn't working at the moment, that the person that has to look over the tapes isn't available, that the person that is needed to authorize someone view the tapes isn't there that day, etc. I have starting calling the fourth row of the parking lot the " Drug row " because generally the vehicles that are parked that far out in the parking lot are oddly enough occupied by people that are trying to watch for anyone walking their direction (other students not instructors, the school personal stay out of the student parking lot because they know what goes on, they just don't care). What it boils down to is this, as far as the school is concerned as long as you simply show up and occupy that seat, you will pass. Simply because if you at least show up and sign the sign-out sheet (required by the state in order for the school to receive monies from government financial programs) everyday then the school receives it's money from your financial aid.
I understand that a private establishment as well as most other businesses are in place to make money, but generally an honest business offers a quality service for the money that is spent with them, at Lincoln College of Technology, LTI, Lincoln Technical Institute, Lincoln Tech Institute, whatever name that they want to go by that week, this simply isn't the case. If you want to make better use of $23,400.00 go to a homeless shelter and buy them an outfit, a fresh hair cut, and a hot meal. That's much better use of your money than to give it to Lincoln Technical Institute.
Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas
This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 04/09/2009 12:21 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Lincoln-College-Of-Technology-LTI-Lincoln-Tech-Instutite/Grand-Prairie-Texas-75052/Lincoln-Technical-Instutite-LTI-Lincoln-College-Of-Technology-Its-a-SCAM-A-2340000-442282. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.
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