• Report: #732525

Complaint Review: Missouri wind and solar

  • Submitted: Tue, May 24, 2011
  • Updated: Thu, April 14, 2016

  • Reported By: Disapointed — New York United States of America
Missouri wind and solar
seymour missouri syemour, Missouri United States of America

Missouri wind and solar MW&S Do not buy from this company. Their turibines do not produce what they say by any means. Customer service is horrible. scam...scam..scam syemour, Missouri

*Consumer Comment: Missouri wind and solar are you serious?

*Consumer Comment: Phoney report

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: WES How much were you paid for this?

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: Wes


*REBUTTAL Individual responds: Freedom II

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: Also Agree

*Consumer Comment: Freedom Fraud

*Consumer Comment: Unknowlegable about basics

*Consumer Comment: My experience with Missouri wind and solar

*General Comment: Agree

*Consumer Comment: ripped off from missuri wind and solar

*Consumer Suggestion: Don't let it happen again

*Consumer Comment: Pete in Australia

*Consumer Comment: Red necks/ hillbillies

*Consumer Comment: Missouri Wind and Solar Ripped Me Off!

*General Comment: Exact same experience for me

*General Comment: Competitor's Attempt to Discredit

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I have boght a MW&S turbine. It did nothing like they claimed it would do. The production charts are nothing but lies and hype. The customer service is the worst i have ever delt with.

Buyers beware, scam.scam.scam.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 05/24/2011 07:39 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Missouri-wind-and-solar/syemour-Missouri-/Missouri-wind-and-solar-MWS-Do-not-buy-from-this-company-Their-turibines-do-not-produce-732525. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

Missouri wind and solar are you serious?

AUTHOR: theman - (USA)

Jeff Harmon of Missouri Wind and Solar amounts to nothing more than a diseased weasel. He openly lies about his products writing warranties he does not cover, performance guarantees he does not stand behind and attacks competitors as a way of life.

Before thinking about buying from this company consider he has a legal tab for all of his former customers he has sued that were not happy with his products. That is about all you need to know. His bricks and mortar delusional self claimed largest DIY wind and solar store is a collection of pole barns off the interstate.

You are looking at white trash at its finest buyer beware.

I recently had a reader complain about the performance he was seeing out of his PMA (Permanent Magnet Alternator) wind turbines he purchased from Missouri Wind and Solar.  He said their units were not producing close to the power that the company claimed and he said he was getting zero support from the company.  His videos are below:

And so after doing research, I realized he wasn't the only one having problems with their wind turbine from Missouri Wind and Solar.

After doing a little of looking around on YouTube, I found this hilarious video of a PMA wind turbine and a guy who thinks he is producing a lot of power, but really isn't producing much power at all.

He's excited about 3 Amps, but the voltage is only at 14 V, which means he's producing less than 75 Watts, barely enough to power 1 incandescent light bulb? But this amperage is only instantaneous, and it usually hangs around zero.  So maybe over the 3 minute video he has produced enough energy to keep a bulb on for about 10 seconds!!!

Missouri Wind and Solar tries to impress people with a graph but users don't need to see RPM, they need to see power output vs. wind speed, or at least a table showing how the RPM's vary vs. wind speed?


In the above video, Jeff keeps saying "look at all those Amps" but remember, you don't care about instantaneous Amps, you care about total energy produced, which is Amps multiplied by Volts multiplied by time (for more info on this, check out our post on What is a kWh).  In the video, at about 18 mph, there are 3 turbines connected to produce a max of 125 A at about 15 V for a total of 1.875 kW.  Since there are 3 turbines connected this comes out to an average of 625 Watts per turbine.  But remember, these are just during the wind gusts.

Over the 3 minute period of time that Jeff is looking at his Volt and Amp meters, I would guess that the average Voltage is about 13 V and average Amperage is about 30 Amps (and that is being generous).  So if we assume these were the averages, his 3 turbines were producing about 390 Watts, or 130 Watt per turbine.

Maybe it's just me, but this is not that impressive.

This excellent video on YouTube shows why PMA wind turbines just don't live up to their rated claims:

Here's the point:  Many of these small wind turbine dealers and promoters will try and impress you by showing you graphs and videos of their turbine's voltage, or amperage when the wind gusts, or how fast they spin, or how many unicorns their turbine can power, but there is only one value you need to be concerned with: Power output vs. Wind Speed.  You then need to consider what the average wind speed is in your location and only then can you decide if a wind turbine makes sense.

You don't care about instantaneous amperage output when the wind gusts.  You care about total power output of the wind turbine, and as I covered in my post on Solar PV vs. Wind Turbines, wind turbines just don't make sense for almost all locations in the U.S. because the average wind speed just isn't high enough.  You don't need gusts of wind, you need steady, strong wind to produce a lot of energy from wind turbines.  Don't get suckered in by "fancy" YouTube clips.

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#2 Consumer Comment

Phoney report

AUTHOR: Liter Box - (USA)

How much did Missouri Wind and solar pay you for this?

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#3 REBUTTAL Individual responds

WES How much were you paid for this?

AUTHOR: Turbine.King - (USA)

Wes  You talk about Missouri Wind and Solar having such a great eBay rating.  You're full of crap.  Take a look at the purchase history.  He buys 100 buttons from sellers, probably one of his accounts too, to off set one negitive or neutral feedback.  Have you read  the neutral feed back?  Your mentor stands on his head to get the negitive removed or reduced.  He goes to great lengths to hid the truth  12 to 13 BBB complaints a year?  Really?

Sues customers when they speak out.  He utilized threats and intimination to scare people.  He is, proven, a pathological liar.  He lies so much he believes his own lies.  He treats people like crap.  Look at Youtube!  See what people are saying.

Maybe some of this can help you

And those positive comments above are crap too.  More of his coverup

Missouri wind and solar complaints #missouri wind and solar complaints #Fraud #misrepresentation #scam #the wind.turbine king


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#4 REBUTTAL Individual responds


AUTHOR: Turbine.King - (USA)

Come on man.  Look around you.  People all over are mad at Missouri Wind and solar.  They haven't made a PMA that works since they left Thermodyne.

If anyone is doing any discrediting, it's your boss.  We can prove that very easily.

You have to be pretty dumb not to see what is going on.  

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#5 Consumer Comment


AUTHOR: buttplug1432 - (USA)


..... Right away I noticed the the turbine was not producing the amps they advertised in their charts. Stating 20amp @400rpm.  I tried to contact them and after about a week i finally reach jeff. He stated my ground was wrong and not to connect it to the pole (like his video says) but to run a wire all the way up the pole to the turbine. I did.

I received the same result. I tried to contact them but could not reach them. I did not think much of it at the time. I just figured they were busy. I though the reason why it was no working was because they sent me a 24v PMA. SO I ordered another 12v PMA because I needed to get this up and running. I never thought that a company that advertised as much as they do will rip people of the way they do

I installed the second PMA and received the same results. I started trying to contact the via skype,email and telephone and could not get no responses. That is when I was starting to fill rip off.

After no positive response from this company I decide to make a video showing the system and the Amps these turbines was making and post it on you tube to warn people about what this company does to trick you to buy from them and how they treat you after they get your money.

I had no clue what I just walked into. Since this day i have found alot of other people that have been treated just like I was and ripped of by this man. If you speak neg against him on his videos, he delete you,blocks you from posting any more and starts attack you on other sites, the trick is he usually uses alias so it does not look bad on his company (supposely)

He has been report to the BBB and did not respond to the complaint. I think the Fed Trade Comm got him to remove his charts but now he is moving everything to Mountain Wind Trading Company and using the same charts but not his Name.

He operates under many differt names including skymax as well

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#6 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Freedom II

AUTHOR: Eileen searfoss - (U.S.A.)

I have delt with Jeff and always recieved promp service also.  I am putting  his Freedom II PMG on a steam engine & he has been helpfull & always returned my emails. I will be doing a update soon.

Rick Faircopters@aol.com 


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#7 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Also Agree

AUTHOR: Eileen searfoss - (U.S.A.)

Since I own a business that has been mistreated I understand why you cannot trust any report . I don't know Jeff personally but purchased a Freedom II for my steam engine " Off The Gridd " Setup and love it.  You must consider rthere are many factors that cause poor preformance.  Several items can make you feel your system is not working as advertixed.  Once out of Jeff's hands it'd up to the buyer to assemble everything correctly./   Sure there are some warranty issues that are not the buyers fault & NOT JEFF's FAULT. A bad bearing can happen BUT is more likely to happen on a non ridge mount.Any swaying causes easiley 3 times more stress on the mAin bearings & blades. I looked hard befor my purchase & read betwine the lines & am very happy wityh MY FREEDOM II  RICK

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#8 Consumer Comment

Freedom Fraud

AUTHOR: thinktwice - (USA)

I have one of the super hyped "most advanced technology" bla lba bla Freedom II pma's from this company. We had 50-60 mph gusts and the most we saw from this turbine is a couple hundred watts. It is pathetic and I am disgusted with the whole dame thing. There are 10 flipping rip off report on this one guy if you look in the index. Good lord how does this continue. I found the other commentary and was baffled at how  little this guy knows about his craft. My problems is with the performance of the product and that we should have known better. The guy is pretty decent at burying negative information about his company.

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#9 Consumer Comment

Unknowlegable about basics

AUTHOR: thinktwice - (USA)

The owner of missouri wind and solar mascurades as a knowlegeable wind and solar guy but truthful is another thing after finding that we did not get the power promised from  Missouri wind and solar turbines we found this information

Missouri video

I mostly like everything that people do with small wind turbines, especially hands-on and do-it-yourself, so I got excited to discover Missouri Wind and Solar, and I watched this video that I found on the home page with interest.

Unfortunately I was a bit disappointed as there was almost nothing the Jeff said that could begin to agree with.  Here are just some of the main points of disagreement.  If anyone wants to chime in and explain what Jeff was thinking of I would be grateful but to be honest I am afraid I just don’t get it :-(

  • AC versus DC transmission in cables.  At 4.40 Jeff states that “3-phase AC output, you can simply use an extension cord and run it 200 feet with literally no loss whatsoever.”  In fact the 3-phase AC cable supplying a rectifier has to carry the same current as the DC cables that follow after, but the difference is that they are only working part time.  So you need 3 wires the same size as the two DC ones would be to achieve the same efficiency.  I wonder if Jeff has tried putting 50 amps of AC down his extension cord, or maybe not.  I mostly use AC transmission and my rule of thumb is that for the same voltage you need the same wire size for AC as you do for DC (to have the same power losses).
  • Solid core wiring.  At 6.50 Jeff says to never use solid core wiring for DC current.  I think he has some garbled idea about skin effect however this only affects AC current, and at low frequencies it would only be significant at huge wire sizes having solid cores 3/4″ or more thick.  solid core wire will work fine for AC or DC.  Often stranded wire is easier to work with but weight for weight they have the same resistance.  the coils in the alternator are wound with solid core wires.  I use both types of wire on AC and on DC.
  • Seven blades will start at lower windspeeds.  AT 8.50 Jeff contends that 3-bladed wind turbines cannot start in low winds whereas machines with multiple blades can start at lower windspeeds.  In fact the start-up depends also on the friction in the seals, the losses in the stator core, and above all upon the diameter of the blades.  Blade diameter matters more than blade number, and this is not something Jeff mentions at all.  You can use more blades to get more torque (at lower rpm) to overcome friction etc (and to sell more blades), but the key to low wind performance is large blade diameter (longer blades to catch more wind).  A multi-blade will turn slowly in low winds but there is no real power to be had from small rotors in low winds, and the rpm is too low as well.
  • Odd numbers of blades.  At 10.40 things get really bizarre when Jeff tells us that blade rotors need to have odd number of blades.  I wonder if he ever heard of the old Dutch windmills with 4 blades? 2-bladers have their issues with vibration which you can read about elsewhere but they are faster than 3-bladers.  For many years (1970s and 80s) when I needed maximum rpm speed I only made 2-bladers.  3-bladers run more smoothly and if you don’t have excessive friction or a tiny diameter then 3 is all you need.  Odd or even makes no difference.
  • Blade pitch and stall.  At 14.30 Jeff tells us about aluminum blades with coarse pitch.  He claims that “at 15 mph these blades will throw themselves out of the wind and stall”.  In fact the coarse pitch is a good strategy for a low speed, high torque blade rotor.  If you combine the large pitch of these blades with the large blade number that Jeff uses (to achieve the low wind start-up) then you would get the best result for an efficient low speed rotor, suitable for pumping water etc.  The problem is not “stall” in this case but simply coarse pitch which limits rpm.  Rpm in relation to windspeed is determined by “tip speed ratio” and these aluminum blades are designed to work at low tip speed ratio so they need a very slow generator to work well.  Stall however is the opposite problem, when high speed rotors (with a flat pitch angle and fewer blades) have too much load torque holding them back so they cannot achieve their best (high) tip speed in relation to the wind.  Best results are achieved with larger diameter blades (with high tip speed ratio) and a good understanding of how to match the generator load to what the blades can do over a range of windspeeds.  There is not much sign of these lessons being learned, unfortunately.
  • Towers at 17.40 we learn that “Most wind turbines fit on an inch and a half pipe”.  This confirms that Jeff’s experience is pretty much limited to the world of vehicle alternator wind turbines with diminutive blade rotors that can’t produce more than a few amps (or he would have already set fire to his extension cords).
  • 18.10 “you can simply take a pipe, stick it in the ground, concrete it in up to twenty feet” yikes!  that would get bent over pretty quickly where I live!  You need to put guys on the tower, fairly close up to the tips of the blades so as to support the pipe.  That is if you are generating serious power output.

I won’t get into my comments on the missouri wind and solar controllers here.  I have just touched above on a few of the problems I have with Jeff’s instruction material.  I hate to be negative about this, and I have no wish to start a big argument, but I can’t really leave this stuff out there without challenging it.

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#10 Consumer Comment

My experience with Missouri wind and solar

AUTHOR: Amy S. - (USA)

After establishment of our solar system and charge controller according to assembling directions it was determined set on June 30 by Missouri Wind and Solar that the controller was not working. They requested a picture to be messaged to check that it was introduced accurately, which we gave. They asked for the controller be sent back to our detriment and a substitution would be sent. They said they would need to charge for the new controller, however when they receive the broken one, they would credit us. After they had gotten the controller, they decided it was dispatched out without being balanced. Meanwhile we saw that they had not credited our charge card yet. We got some information about this and let them know we expected to be credited back since the uncalibrated controller was sent back to them and got by them. They educated us that they would not issue us our cash back despite the fact that they admitted that it was their shortcoming that it was conveyed uncalibrated. Indeed they said they would align the controller for a $35 expense despite the fact that it ought to have been carried out by them in any case!! At that point they said we could have the part back on the off chance that we paid for the expense and delivery, however we would not be getting our cash discounted for the second controller they conveyed. So we paid for two controllers including delivery to and from Missouri Wind and Solar when we just required one. We are out $157 for the controller and $60 downright for the delivery.

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#11 General Comment


AUTHOR: rocket2239 - ()

I agree with you. I have visited MW&S in person and know that thier products work as claimed. I believe these reports are bogus. I personally witnessed the output of three different turbines and can atest they work very well.

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#12 Consumer Comment

ripped off from missuri wind and solar

AUTHOR: real energy results - ()

hi every one let me start off saying this crowd have no electrical xperince or have no electrical qualification full stop.I am an elecrticain that is my trade,I have this so called 1600 watt wind turbine,first off  the cables coming out of the turbine are to carry 1600 watts,they are like telafone cables.I have this turbine up on a 20 foot tower in 40 to 60 mph winds and on averaged 10 amps that is a long way from 66 amps that they clame with is such a big joke.then i put it up on a 40 foot tower and to my abslute surprize it was THE SAME crap results,The dimerter of the blades are way to small to turn an turbine car alternater when on a load meaning connected to an 24 volt battery bank.Even in 25 mph winds which it is rated to produce this magic 1600 watts is only sends out 60 to 50 watts.so if u want to get a refund he will not give you a refund unless i take down my real world results of the heap of junk turbine.DO NOT BUY THIS CRAP,here is a link for my video which i will have more   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EJnUgPfXj4&feature=share&list=UU51hCtpYul3fCJnpBNoVe-Q

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#13 Consumer Suggestion

Don't let it happen again

AUTHOR: Rich - (United States of America)

Howdy folks, didn't you people do your homework before clicking on the "buy" button?
OK I hafta admit I sometimes forget myself, it's easy when fooled by a nice looking web site, I almost clicked, right around the fifteen hundred dollar mark too. But then it came to me, #1 rule when buying on the internet, do your research, at sites just like this one, which is what I did, last night as a matter of fact, but then I saw all the you tubes of the owner of MW&S and they sounded good to me, so what do you do next? Well I called today, and left a message, said I had one of there unites and need to know how to return it and get my money back, guess what, I never recieved a call back from them, so don't be fooled folks, this company is one to stay away from, when a customer has a problem he wants an answer/help and he wants it right now, and not to be jerked around by the company he trusted, how would I know? Cause I have been owner of busines/s for 40 years and no Jim or Mike or who ever, I am not a competitor of your's or a dis grunted employee, I am Rich, check your voice mail, then go to the mirror and kiss the 1500 bucks good by, cause you lost a good sale today by not returning a call to what you thought was a pissed off customer.

That's how you do it folks, wise up, be smart, and don't let these bad company's get away with anything.

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#14 Consumer Comment

Pete in Australia

AUTHOR: David - (United States of America)


   I have a problem with your post. Calling people names "rednecks and hillbillies" says something about you. Then you attack the U.S. as a whole about our financial issues. I am a currency trader and I can tell you that your economy isn't peaches and cream. By the way, we have not let our government gather up all our guns like ya'll did. Wonder why?? The rednecks and hillbillies won't allow it!

So stop calling names, di*head.


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#15 Consumer Comment

Red necks/ hillbillies

AUTHOR: Peter - (Australia)

Dear Gents I have noticed that you all talk the same way .Are you all related? I purchased goods from MW & solar and found them quite good to deal with. Mike was more than helpful and my goods arrived in good speed to Australia and condition .So maybe you should concentrate on making better products and work together (ants can ) doing positive things for you country and you might not be in the financial problem that you are in. Cheers
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#16 Consumer Comment

Missouri Wind and Solar Ripped Me Off!

AUTHOR: AltEman - (United States of America)

I have had my 1600 Watt Missouri Wind and Solar wind turbine on my tower for 2 months. It is the 24 volt, 1600 Watt unit. It is located on a 45 foot tower with very clear access to the wind in all directions. I am running 6 gauge welding wire from the wind turbine to a 24 volt battery bank. I should also say that I am a licensed eletrician in the state of New York.

Missouri Wind and Solar really ripped me off! I purchased the MWS 1600 Watt wind turbine to replace my 300 Watt Airx. I wanted a wind turbine that would make more power. What a disappointed. My 300 Watt Airx makes more power than this Missouri Wind and Solar 1600 Watt piece of $%#@.

In 20 mile per hour wind I could get over 100 Watts from my 300 Watt Airx. I get 60 Watts from my 1600 Watt, 24 volt Missouri Wind and Solar wind turbine.  In 30 mile per hour wind I could get 300 Watts from my 300 Watt Airx.

In 30 mph wind I only get 180 Watts from my 1600 Watt Missouri Wind and Solar wind turbine. What a scam! I called Missouri Wind and Solar and they told me some BS story about how I had it wired wrong, how the wire I was using was not thick enough, etc etc. I AM A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN WITH 20 YEARS EXPERIENCE! I have installed over 5 wind turbines in the last 15 years. I know what I am doing!

Missouri Wind and Solar turbines are a joke and a scam. Buyer be warned. Do not fall for their scam!
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#17 General Comment

Exact same experience for me

AUTHOR: gsomervill - (United States of America)

I had the misfortune of seeing the report after buying $1677 worth of equipment from Jeff at Missouri Wind and Solar. My experience is turning out the exact way that has been explained in the above report so far. No output from the expensive turbine and now I am searching for ways to produce energy by buying someone elses equipment or building my own.

Do not buy from Missouri wind and solar. Just flush your cash down the toilet to cause yourself less stress.
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#18 General Comment

Competitor's Attempt to Discredit

AUTHOR: Wes - (United States of America)

As this person supplies no details about their order, it is my belief that they are a competitor we have been having issues with trying to effect our online sales. We've seen this exact non-specific commentary on our YouTube videos, etc.

Don't take my advice, look on EBay and you'll see that MWandS is typically a top-rated seller. We are very serious about maintaining that rating and you cannot do that with situations that this individual is claiming.
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