• Report: #244044

Complaint Review: NAFS ,National Action Financial Services,

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  • Submitted: Sat, April 14, 2007
  • Updated: Thu, April 14, 2011

  • Reported By:Helena Montana
NAFS ,National Action Financial Services,
165 Lawrece Bell DR STE 100 Williamsville, New York U.S.A.

NAFS ,National Action Financial Services, Scam Letter In Mail!! Williamsville New York

*General Comment: EMPLOYEE EXAGERATION....FOR NATHAN

*General Comment: yes they inform you of your right to dispute in writing

*Consumer Suggestion: Tiffany

*Consumer Suggestion: Tiffany

*Consumer Suggestion: Tiffany

*Consumer Comment: How do you owe money on a CLOSED account with a $0.00 balance? Ask NASF

*Consumer Comment: NAFS Employee Shows True Colors in His Postings

*UPDATE Employee: Bottom Line

*Consumer Suggestion: TO ALL POSTERS OF THIS THREAD ....

*UPDATE Employee: you have no idea what you are talking about

*Consumer Suggestion: Education for Nathan the NAFS collector

*Consumer Suggestion: re

*UPDATE Employee: I understand your frustration

*Author of original report: The Other Fishy Thing Is...

*Author of original report: Just Passing On Some Info Is all...

*Consumer Suggestion: So

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Just Got a Letter In mail addressed to my husband from NAFS we have never heard of this company and also have not heard of the company to which they say my husband owes money to!

This letter looks bogus as it has 3 different addresses (One on the top left, top right and bottom left)All different companies one being NAFS OF Canada??? The Phone number NAFS gives to call is: 1-866-327-5027
We have not gotten any phone calls as of yet but, just got this bogus looking letter today. I hope we do not get any harassing phone calls as we have 2 children with autism. The last thing we need is nasty,harassing phone calls

If you get a letter from NAFS please look it over carefully and NEVER give out your personal information out if they do call you. We plan to report this to the BBB!!

Tiffany
Helena, Montana
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 04/14/2007 05:58 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/NAFS-National-Action-Financial-Services/Williamsville-New-York-14221/NAFS-National-Action-Financial-Services-Scam-Letter-In-Mail-Williamsville-New-York-244044. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
0Author 16Consumer 0Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 General Comment

EMPLOYEE EXAGERATION....FOR NATHAN

AUTHOR: mmkj - (United States of America)

    Nathen, First of all NAFS does not have 1000 agents.  You may have 200 but this is unlikely as your company has closed all but 2 wings of the building at 165 Lawrence Bell Dr, williamsville NY....  Perhaps you are counting all the people who work for SITEL ie..  Client Logic...This parent company is located in Tennesee...So all you folks who believe you have been wronged by this company can see they have very deep pockets...            

    NAFS is a reputable company but are enjoying a very bad reputation due to poor management....Strong arm tactics are the norm...Discrimination is also the norm...
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#2 General Comment

yes they inform you of your right to dispute in writing

AUTHOR: Paulasbestbet - (United States of America)

As far as Nathans behavior is concerned I cannot begin to comment. What I do know for sure is this, with every letter that NAFS sends out,either on the bottm or the back of the letter it is printed that a debtor has thirty (30) days to dispute and ask for verification of said debt. The return address is usually in the upper right hand corner.
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#3 Consumer Suggestion

Tiffany

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

It's always interesting to me whenever any of these alleged "employees" or "employee insiders" post their crap. I've yet to see any of these employees inform consumers of their rights under the law. Nathan is no exception.

Tiffany, I would suggest your ignore "the man behind the curtain" - Nathan.

As for Nathan - do tell us how your company tells debtors that they have the right to dispute and validate the alleged debt. Do tell us how you provide a mailing address so that a debtor may send a certified, return receipt requested letter to DISPUTE and request validation. You do know that you are required to do this, do you not? Yet, in all your dribble rubuttals, you don't mention any of the protections provided by law or tell us how your company complies with the requirements imposed by the FDCPA. Go figure.

Here's some information that I have found successful over the years.

What debt collectors don't want you to know.

Since you have a mailing address for these folks, do not discuss this matter with them any further. All communications with them needs to be in writing to ensure your protections under the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act. You need to DISPUTE that the debt is not yours and demand they VALIDATE this alleged debt per the FDCPA.

It's no coincidence that the rebuttals from alleged employees don't bother to mention your rights and protections. They don't want you to know. What's amusing is that these debt collectors are required by law to tell you that you have the right to DISPUTE and request VALIDATION of the alleged debt. If they don't tell you how to dispute and demand validation (you have to do this in WRITING - so they have to tell you WHERE to send a letter) when they are talking to you, they are then required by the FDCPA to send you a written notice of this alleged debt that includes a statement that you have the right to DISPUTE IT and demand VALIDATION.

Have they done this? Did they tell you where to send a written letter to dispute and demand validation of this alleged debt? Probably not. If they didn't tell you this while talking to you (or in their notice to you), they are then required by law to send you a written notice of your right to dispute and demand validation of this alleged debt within 5 days from their initial contact! (The date that they first called you.) If this hasn't been done, that's a violation of the FDCPA right there, so that should give you an idea of how they conduct their 'legitimate' business.

Now, let's get to my advice to you.

FIRST - Read the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act at ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm.

If you're interested in obtaining free credit reports, read the Fair Credit Reporting Act at ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcradoc.pdf

It is important to understand the definitions used in the FDCPA, so I have included that section of the law. Many collectors do not fall under the FDCPA, so please read paragraph 6 and its subparagraphs very carefully:

803. Definitions [15 USC 1692a]
As used in this title --

(1) The term 'Commission' means the Federal Trade Commission.

(2) The term 'communication' means the conveying of information regarding a debt directly or indirectly to any person through any medium.

(3) The term 'consumer' means any natural person obligated or allegedly obligated to pay any debt.

(4) The term 'creditor' means any person who offers or extends credit creating a debt or to whom a debt is owed, but such term does not include any person to the extent that he receives an assignment or transfer of a debt in default solely for the purpose of facilitating collection of such debt for another.

(5) The term 'debt' means any obligation or alleged obligation of a consumer to pay money arising out of a transaction in which the money, property, insurance or services which are the subject of the transaction are primarily for personal, family, or household purposes, whether or not such obligation has been reduced to judgment.

(6) The term 'debt collector' means any person who uses any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails in any business the principal purpose of which is the collection of any debts, or who regularly collects or attempts to collect, directly or indirectly, debts owed or due or asserted to be owed or due another. Notwithstanding the exclusion provided by clause (F) of the last sentence of this paragraph, the term includes any creditor who, in the process of collecting his own debts, uses any name other than his own which would indicate that a third person is collecting or attempting to collect such debts. For the purpose of section 808(6), such term also includes any person who uses any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails in any business the principal purpose of which is the enforcement of security interests. THE TERM DOES NOT INCLUDE --

(A) any officer or employee of a creditor while, in the name of the creditor, collecting debts for such creditor;

(B) any person while acting as a debt collector for another person, both of whom are related by common ownership or affiliated by corporate control, if the person acting as a debt collector does so only for persons to whom it is so related or affiliated and if the principal business of such person is not the collection of debts;

(C) any officer or employee of the United States or any State to the extent that collecting or attempting to collect any debt is in the performance of his official duties;

(D) any person while serving or attempting to serve legal process on any other person in connection with the judicial enforcement of any debt;

(E) any nonprofit organization which, at the request of consumers, performs bona fide consumer credit counseling and assists consumers in the liquidation of their debts by receiving payments from such consumers and distributing such amounts to creditors; and

(F) any person collecting or attempting to collect any debt owed or due or asserted to be owed or due another to the extent such activity (i) is incidental to a bona fide fiduciary obligation or a bona fide escrow arrangement; (ii) concerns a debt which was originated by such person; (iii) concerns a debt which was not in default at the time it was obtained by such person; or (iv) concerns a debt obtained by such person as a secured party in a commercial credit transaction involving the creditor.

SECOND - send a certified letter, return receipt requested, to the DEBT COLLECTOR to DISPUTE the alleged debt and request written VALIDATION of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such validation or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor. Also, include a statement stating that you do not wish to be contacted again until you receive all the written debt validation information you have requested. You should specifically ask for the following documentation:

What the money you say I owe is for;
Name and address of the current Creditor who owns the debt;
Name and address of the original Creditor;
Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe;
Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;
Provide a verification or copy of any judgment if applicable;
Identify the original creditor;
Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account;
Show me that you are licensed to collect in my state;
Provide me with your license numbers and Registered Agent.

Once they receive the letter, they must cease all collection efforts until they provide the written information requested. This is in accordance with the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

THIRD - Once you received the written validation information requested, contact the CREDITOR (who owns the debt) via certified mail to resolve the matter. Many times, the creditor will come after you again using a different debt collector so you will want to notify (in writing) the CREDITOR that you DISPUTE this alleged debt.

That's why you demand validation, as well as dispute it with the debt collector. As part of the validation process, the debt collector is required to inform you (in writing) who the CREDITOR is with contact information for the creditor. If they fail to do this, that's another violation of the FDCPA.

Please note that simply sending the letter telling them to leave you alone does not absolve a valid debt. What the letter does do is force them to provide you with written validation of the debt and to stop all collection actions until you receive the information. Once you have the information, you should act on it accordingly by contacting the CREDITOR via certified mail.

Some other notes: Any statute of limitations does not absolve a valid debt; it merely prohibits the creditor from going to court and winning a money judgment against you. IF there is already a money judgment, the statute of limitations most likely is longer - in New York State it's 20 years.

You can check the statute of limitations for debt in your state at http://www.fair-debt-collection.com/statue-limitations.html

In addition, a credit report listing does not in any way determine if a debt is valid or not, or collectible or not that is what courts are for. There are 3 ways a valid debt can be absolved; you pay it off, the creditor forgives it, or bankruptcy court orders it absolved.

Section 809 of the FDCPA covers debt validation nicely:

809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;

(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and

(5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

(c) The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer.

Hope this helps.
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#4 Consumer Suggestion

Tiffany

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

It's always interesting to me whenever any of these alleged "employees" or "employee insiders" post their crap. I've yet to see any of these employees inform consumers of their rights under the law. Nathan is no exception.

Tiffany, I would suggest your ignore "the man behind the curtain" - Nathan.

As for Nathan - do tell us how your company tells debtors that they have the right to dispute and validate the alleged debt. Do tell us how you provide a mailing address so that a debtor may send a certified, return receipt requested letter to DISPUTE and request validation. You do know that you are required to do this, do you not? Yet, in all your dribble rubuttals, you don't mention any of the protections provided by law or tell us how your company complies with the requirements imposed by the FDCPA. Go figure.

Here's some information that I have found successful over the years.

What debt collectors don't want you to know.

Since you have a mailing address for these folks, do not discuss this matter with them any further. All communications with them needs to be in writing to ensure your protections under the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act. You need to DISPUTE that the debt is not yours and demand they VALIDATE this alleged debt per the FDCPA.

It's no coincidence that the rebuttals from alleged employees don't bother to mention your rights and protections. They don't want you to know. What's amusing is that these debt collectors are required by law to tell you that you have the right to DISPUTE and request VALIDATION of the alleged debt. If they don't tell you how to dispute and demand validation (you have to do this in WRITING - so they have to tell you WHERE to send a letter) when they are talking to you, they are then required by the FDCPA to send you a written notice of this alleged debt that includes a statement that you have the right to DISPUTE IT and demand VALIDATION.

Have they done this? Did they tell you where to send a written letter to dispute and demand validation of this alleged debt? Probably not. If they didn't tell you this while talking to you (or in their notice to you), they are then required by law to send you a written notice of your right to dispute and demand validation of this alleged debt within 5 days from their initial contact! (The date that they first called you.) If this hasn't been done, that's a violation of the FDCPA right there, so that should give you an idea of how they conduct their 'legitimate' business.

Now, let's get to my advice to you.

FIRST - Read the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act at ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm.

If you're interested in obtaining free credit reports, read the Fair Credit Reporting Act at ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcradoc.pdf

It is important to understand the definitions used in the FDCPA, so I have included that section of the law. Many collectors do not fall under the FDCPA, so please read paragraph 6 and its subparagraphs very carefully:

803. Definitions [15 USC 1692a]
As used in this title --

(1) The term 'Commission' means the Federal Trade Commission.

(2) The term 'communication' means the conveying of information regarding a debt directly or indirectly to any person through any medium.

(3) The term 'consumer' means any natural person obligated or allegedly obligated to pay any debt.

(4) The term 'creditor' means any person who offers or extends credit creating a debt or to whom a debt is owed, but such term does not include any person to the extent that he receives an assignment or transfer of a debt in default solely for the purpose of facilitating collection of such debt for another.

(5) The term 'debt' means any obligation or alleged obligation of a consumer to pay money arising out of a transaction in which the money, property, insurance or services which are the subject of the transaction are primarily for personal, family, or household purposes, whether or not such obligation has been reduced to judgment.

(6) The term 'debt collector' means any person who uses any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails in any business the principal purpose of which is the collection of any debts, or who regularly collects or attempts to collect, directly or indirectly, debts owed or due or asserted to be owed or due another. Notwithstanding the exclusion provided by clause (F) of the last sentence of this paragraph, the term includes any creditor who, in the process of collecting his own debts, uses any name other than his own which would indicate that a third person is collecting or attempting to collect such debts. For the purpose of section 808(6), such term also includes any person who uses any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails in any business the principal purpose of which is the enforcement of security interests. THE TERM DOES NOT INCLUDE --

(A) any officer or employee of a creditor while, in the name of the creditor, collecting debts for such creditor;

(B) any person while acting as a debt collector for another person, both of whom are related by common ownership or affiliated by corporate control, if the person acting as a debt collector does so only for persons to whom it is so related or affiliated and if the principal business of such person is not the collection of debts;

(C) any officer or employee of the United States or any State to the extent that collecting or attempting to collect any debt is in the performance of his official duties;

(D) any person while serving or attempting to serve legal process on any other person in connection with the judicial enforcement of any debt;

(E) any nonprofit organization which, at the request of consumers, performs bona fide consumer credit counseling and assists consumers in the liquidation of their debts by receiving payments from such consumers and distributing such amounts to creditors; and

(F) any person collecting or attempting to collect any debt owed or due or asserted to be owed or due another to the extent such activity (i) is incidental to a bona fide fiduciary obligation or a bona fide escrow arrangement; (ii) concerns a debt which was originated by such person; (iii) concerns a debt which was not in default at the time it was obtained by such person; or (iv) concerns a debt obtained by such person as a secured party in a commercial credit transaction involving the creditor.

SECOND - send a certified letter, return receipt requested, to the DEBT COLLECTOR to DISPUTE the alleged debt and request written VALIDATION of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such validation or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor. Also, include a statement stating that you do not wish to be contacted again until you receive all the written debt validation information you have requested. You should specifically ask for the following documentation:

What the money you say I owe is for;
Name and address of the current Creditor who owns the debt;
Name and address of the original Creditor;
Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe;
Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;
Provide a verification or copy of any judgment if applicable;
Identify the original creditor;
Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account;
Show me that you are licensed to collect in my state;
Provide me with your license numbers and Registered Agent.

Once they receive the letter, they must cease all collection efforts until they provide the written information requested. This is in accordance with the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

THIRD - Once you received the written validation information requested, contact the CREDITOR (who owns the debt) via certified mail to resolve the matter. Many times, the creditor will come after you again using a different debt collector so you will want to notify (in writing) the CREDITOR that you DISPUTE this alleged debt.

That's why you demand validation, as well as dispute it with the debt collector. As part of the validation process, the debt collector is required to inform you (in writing) who the CREDITOR is with contact information for the creditor. If they fail to do this, that's another violation of the FDCPA.

Please note that simply sending the letter telling them to leave you alone does not absolve a valid debt. What the letter does do is force them to provide you with written validation of the debt and to stop all collection actions until you receive the information. Once you have the information, you should act on it accordingly by contacting the CREDITOR via certified mail.

Some other notes: Any statute of limitations does not absolve a valid debt; it merely prohibits the creditor from going to court and winning a money judgment against you. IF there is already a money judgment, the statute of limitations most likely is longer - in New York State it's 20 years.

You can check the statute of limitations for debt in your state at http://www.fair-debt-collection.com/statue-limitations.html

In addition, a credit report listing does not in any way determine if a debt is valid or not, or collectible or not that is what courts are for. There are 3 ways a valid debt can be absolved; you pay it off, the creditor forgives it, or bankruptcy court orders it absolved.

Section 809 of the FDCPA covers debt validation nicely:

809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;

(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and

(5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

(c) The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer.

Hope this helps.
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#5 Consumer Suggestion

Tiffany

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

It's always interesting to me whenever any of these alleged "employees" or "employee insiders" post their crap. I've yet to see any of these employees inform consumers of their rights under the law. Nathan is no exception.

Tiffany, I would suggest your ignore "the man behind the curtain" - Nathan.

As for Nathan - do tell us how your company tells debtors that they have the right to dispute and validate the alleged debt. Do tell us how you provide a mailing address so that a debtor may send a certified, return receipt requested letter to DISPUTE and request validation. You do know that you are required to do this, do you not? Yet, in all your dribble rubuttals, you don't mention any of the protections provided by law or tell us how your company complies with the requirements imposed by the FDCPA. Go figure.

Here's some information that I have found successful over the years.

What debt collectors don't want you to know.

Since you have a mailing address for these folks, do not discuss this matter with them any further. All communications with them needs to be in writing to ensure your protections under the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act. You need to DISPUTE that the debt is not yours and demand they VALIDATE this alleged debt per the FDCPA.

It's no coincidence that the rebuttals from alleged employees don't bother to mention your rights and protections. They don't want you to know. What's amusing is that these debt collectors are required by law to tell you that you have the right to DISPUTE and request VALIDATION of the alleged debt. If they don't tell you how to dispute and demand validation (you have to do this in WRITING - so they have to tell you WHERE to send a letter) when they are talking to you, they are then required by the FDCPA to send you a written notice of this alleged debt that includes a statement that you have the right to DISPUTE IT and demand VALIDATION.

Have they done this? Did they tell you where to send a written letter to dispute and demand validation of this alleged debt? Probably not. If they didn't tell you this while talking to you (or in their notice to you), they are then required by law to send you a written notice of your right to dispute and demand validation of this alleged debt within 5 days from their initial contact! (The date that they first called you.) If this hasn't been done, that's a violation of the FDCPA right there, so that should give you an idea of how they conduct their 'legitimate' business.

Now, let's get to my advice to you.

FIRST - Read the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act at ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm.

If you're interested in obtaining free credit reports, read the Fair Credit Reporting Act at ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcradoc.pdf

It is important to understand the definitions used in the FDCPA, so I have included that section of the law. Many collectors do not fall under the FDCPA, so please read paragraph 6 and its subparagraphs very carefully:

803. Definitions [15 USC 1692a]
As used in this title --

(1) The term 'Commission' means the Federal Trade Commission.

(2) The term 'communication' means the conveying of information regarding a debt directly or indirectly to any person through any medium.

(3) The term 'consumer' means any natural person obligated or allegedly obligated to pay any debt.

(4) The term 'creditor' means any person who offers or extends credit creating a debt or to whom a debt is owed, but such term does not include any person to the extent that he receives an assignment or transfer of a debt in default solely for the purpose of facilitating collection of such debt for another.

(5) The term 'debt' means any obligation or alleged obligation of a consumer to pay money arising out of a transaction in which the money, property, insurance or services which are the subject of the transaction are primarily for personal, family, or household purposes, whether or not such obligation has been reduced to judgment.

(6) The term 'debt collector' means any person who uses any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails in any business the principal purpose of which is the collection of any debts, or who regularly collects or attempts to collect, directly or indirectly, debts owed or due or asserted to be owed or due another. Notwithstanding the exclusion provided by clause (F) of the last sentence of this paragraph, the term includes any creditor who, in the process of collecting his own debts, uses any name other than his own which would indicate that a third person is collecting or attempting to collect such debts. For the purpose of section 808(6), such term also includes any person who uses any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails in any business the principal purpose of which is the enforcement of security interests. THE TERM DOES NOT INCLUDE --

(A) any officer or employee of a creditor while, in the name of the creditor, collecting debts for such creditor;

(B) any person while acting as a debt collector for another person, both of whom are related by common ownership or affiliated by corporate control, if the person acting as a debt collector does so only for persons to whom it is so related or affiliated and if the principal business of such person is not the collection of debts;

(C) any officer or employee of the United States or any State to the extent that collecting or attempting to collect any debt is in the performance of his official duties;

(D) any person while serving or attempting to serve legal process on any other person in connection with the judicial enforcement of any debt;

(E) any nonprofit organization which, at the request of consumers, performs bona fide consumer credit counseling and assists consumers in the liquidation of their debts by receiving payments from such consumers and distributing such amounts to creditors; and

(F) any person collecting or attempting to collect any debt owed or due or asserted to be owed or due another to the extent such activity (i) is incidental to a bona fide fiduciary obligation or a bona fide escrow arrangement; (ii) concerns a debt which was originated by such person; (iii) concerns a debt which was not in default at the time it was obtained by such person; or (iv) concerns a debt obtained by such person as a secured party in a commercial credit transaction involving the creditor.

SECOND - send a certified letter, return receipt requested, to the DEBT COLLECTOR to DISPUTE the alleged debt and request written VALIDATION of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such validation or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor. Also, include a statement stating that you do not wish to be contacted again until you receive all the written debt validation information you have requested. You should specifically ask for the following documentation:

What the money you say I owe is for;
Name and address of the current Creditor who owns the debt;
Name and address of the original Creditor;
Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe;
Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;
Provide a verification or copy of any judgment if applicable;
Identify the original creditor;
Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account;
Show me that you are licensed to collect in my state;
Provide me with your license numbers and Registered Agent.

Once they receive the letter, they must cease all collection efforts until they provide the written information requested. This is in accordance with the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

THIRD - Once you received the written validation information requested, contact the CREDITOR (who owns the debt) via certified mail to resolve the matter. Many times, the creditor will come after you again using a different debt collector so you will want to notify (in writing) the CREDITOR that you DISPUTE this alleged debt.

That's why you demand validation, as well as dispute it with the debt collector. As part of the validation process, the debt collector is required to inform you (in writing) who the CREDITOR is with contact information for the creditor. If they fail to do this, that's another violation of the FDCPA.

Please note that simply sending the letter telling them to leave you alone does not absolve a valid debt. What the letter does do is force them to provide you with written validation of the debt and to stop all collection actions until you receive the information. Once you have the information, you should act on it accordingly by contacting the CREDITOR via certified mail.

Some other notes: Any statute of limitations does not absolve a valid debt; it merely prohibits the creditor from going to court and winning a money judgment against you. IF there is already a money judgment, the statute of limitations most likely is longer - in New York State it's 20 years.

You can check the statute of limitations for debt in your state at http://www.fair-debt-collection.com/statue-limitations.html

In addition, a credit report listing does not in any way determine if a debt is valid or not, or collectible or not that is what courts are for. There are 3 ways a valid debt can be absolved; you pay it off, the creditor forgives it, or bankruptcy court orders it absolved.

Section 809 of the FDCPA covers debt validation nicely:

809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;

(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and

(5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

(c) The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer.

Hope this helps.
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#6 Consumer Comment

How do you owe money on a CLOSED account with a $0.00 balance? Ask NASF

AUTHOR: Sam N. - (U.S.A.)

NASF has been calling my mother many times, and harassing her about money she owes. The odd part is they are claiming she owes money on an account that has been closed for years. But I told her to be safe, so she has called the company that NASF mentioned (using legit phone numbers) , and they CONFIRMED my mother's account is CLOSED with a $0 balance. She confirmed this on her credit report she obtained a few weeks ago, and to be safe she obtained AGAIN, YESTERDAY, just to make sure. CLOSED ACCOUNT $0 BALANCE.

So, NASF may get upset when customers act rudely, but when you call someone trying to get $$$ out of them , on a $0 balance, closed account.. Makes you wonder eh? Do they expect people to roll over and hand out money.
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#7 Consumer Comment

NAFS Employee Shows True Colors in His Postings

AUTHOR: Dave - (U.S.A.)

Nathan wrote: "You can all do your research and you will all see that NAFS is a legit company. So please refrain from calling us a scam. If you want to go your life thinking that its ok to not pay your bills, than that can be your little secret. The reality is that we exist because it is cheaper for corporations to hire us than to form their own collection departments.

Nafs does not purchase any debt! It is true that there is no debtors prison, but wouldnt you call someone everyday if they owed you thousands of dollars? To think that we are going to go away is stupid and childish. If you dont want to pay, thats fine, but dont cry about it when you start getting daily reminders on your voicemail that you are a debtor. I encourage anyone who reads this who has a debt at NAFS to call me, and let me attempt to help you so you can post some honest feedback!"

The abusive language isn't just on the phone now, he's publishing it himself. Let me emphasize "To think we are going to go away is stupid and childish." He is posting this as a representative of the company.

I have multiple recordings of NAFS reps first identifying themselves then commencing to engage me in some very offensive and abusive language. What's more, even after I informed one of these reps of the FTC rules regarding collection calls (abusive language, calling times and days as well as places), he said "so what, who gives a fuck, I'll call you when and where I want! Now what the fuck are you going to do?" I offered him a harassing communications charge in the local criminal system and he told me to find him.

These guys have some real nerve and I can only assume that the company will try to hide behind the "bad eggs" excuse.
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#8 UPDATE Employee

Bottom Line

AUTHOR: Nathan - (U.S.A.)

You can all do your research and you will all see that NAFS is a legit company. So please refrain from calling us a scam. If you want to go your life thinking that its ok to not pay your bills, than that can be your little secret. The reality is that we exist because it is cheaper for corporations to hire us than to form their own collection departments.

Nafs does not purchase any debt! It is true that there is no debtors prison, but wouldnt you call someone everyday if they owed you thousands of dollars? To think that we are going to go away is stupid and childish. If you dont want to pay, thats fine, but dont cry about it when you start getting daily reminders on your voicemail that you are a debtor. I encourage anyone who reads this who has a debt at NAFS to call me, and let me attempt to help you so you can post some honest feedback!

Much Love
Nathan
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#9 Consumer Suggestion

TO ALL POSTERS OF THIS THREAD ....

AUTHOR: P - (U.S.A.)

I would continue to follow the advice of Steve - Florida ..... It appears from this thread and other threads that Nathan New City, New York is phishing for business to meet his collection quotas - but that is a personal opinion ....

Keep to your written certified return receipt letters and requesting validation of the debts and you will be better off ... sorry Nathan but the other professional collections such as J-Lakewood, Ohio appear to be more on board with assisting the consumer without personal gain ("call me directly I can help you".)
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#10 UPDATE Employee

you have no idea what you are talking about

AUTHOR: Nathan - (U.S.A.)

If it didnt matter if debts were paid or not than why do i get calls every day from mortgage brokers asking for a settlement letter? Its because lending institutions want to see that you met your past obligations before lending you money. Its ok if you go through a tough time.... We all do. but if you want to get back on your feet you have to show that your responsible and pay back your debts. It is possible to salvage your credit by paying back money you owe. It looks a lot better to have settled accounts than totally neglected ones. There are some pelple who feel that it doesnt matter, but some of you may want another car, or credit card one day.


I do admit that out tactics may be a bit abrasive at times, but to say that thats a reason to not pay is just plain ignorant. if you want to get something without paying for it and not get any phone calls, than use a gun next time your in the store instead of a credit card and we wont bother you. As crazy as that sounds stealing is stealing! In Saudi they would cut off your hands. If you think that the creditors are ripping you off with interest rates than i would'nt totally disagree with you either, thats why we have the ability to reduce balances. often times we remove all the fees, interest, and even a part of the principal. Whats more fair than that?


You have my contact information and i am always willing to help with your debts. were operating on opposite ends of the spectrum here but the only way for any progress to ever be made for us to meet somewhere in the middle, and if you cant even pick up the phone and talk it out, than take a deep breath and just admit it to yourself that you are a debtor and a theif, and your credit is stronger than your word.anyone who looks, will know that you borrowed and made no attempt to pay back. settlements show that you had hard times and than made good by your creditors when they offered you the more than fair brake you deserved.
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#11 Consumer Suggestion

Education for Nathan the NAFS collector

AUTHOR: Steve - (U.S.A.)

Nathan,

Don't even try to justify the lowlife tactics these bottomfeeders engage in. You can't.

Nathan wrote:
"I am an employee of NAFS and have been for almost 2 years now. I would like to first take a moment to explain that we are a debt collection agency. We are not out there to embarrass innocent [INNOCENT PEOPLE vs. GUILTY PEOPLE?] people. Our goal is to help keep interest rates down by collecting on unpaid debts.[ECONOMICS LESSON 101. IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY> IF EVERYONE PAID ALL DEBTS WE WOULD STILL PAY HIGH RATES. IT IS CORPORATE GREED AND WHATEVER THE MARKET WILL BEAR THAT SET INTEREST RATES] We work in a large office with almost 1000 people working there. It is expected that when you have 1000 people doing the same job a few of them are going to be bad seeds. However there is a lot you should all know"...

1. "We can not offer a debt management company or an attune any settlement that we cant offer you directly. We are allowed to offer a settlement based on a client aggregate regardless of who is asking for it so save your money. No need to pay a settlement company 15% of your total debts up front and a 150$ monthly fee so they can take $4,ooo of your plus over $1,000 to settle a $20,000 acct for $11,000 costing you over $16,000... we could have just given you the same deal for the $11,000. They are the real thieves preying on people who just are afraid to pick up the phone"

2. "We don't call people who can't pay. [YOU DONT KNOW ANYONES ABILITY TO PAY] The only people who get calls more than once a week are people who judging from their credit reports can pay. [CREDIT REPORTS TELL YOU ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AS TO SOMEONES CURRENT ABILITY TO PAY] Otherwise we wouldn't waste our time".

3."if you call us and inform us of your personal hardships we will do everything in our power to put something together that works for you... if it doesn't work for you it doesn't work for anyone". [THE ONLY PERSONAL HARDSHIP IS BOTTOMFEEDERS LIKE YOU CALLING MULTIPLE TIMES PER DAY].

4. "I am always willing to help with anyone who is having a hard time. I am a single father who has just as much a hard time as anyone else so I can always help anyone who is willing to help themselves. If you are not happy with the treatment you are receiving than ask for extension 2501 and ask for Mr. Binder and I will gladly see to it that any rude collector so reprimanded and that you are treated with the fairness you deserve".
-Mr. Binder x2501

"Ps. any of you who work in an office of more than 10 people know that there are always going to be bad eggs in every company, tell me about my bad eggs and I will help you with your debt".

Nathan - New City, New York
U.S.A.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now for the facts. There is absolutely no reason to EVER pay a third party debt collector. It will do absolutely nothing for the debtor. The credit is already trashed of someone being in collections. Paying will not help. Actually paying an old collection account will actually hurt someones credit score.

There is no reason to ever speak to any collector on the phone. NEVER do this.

Ignore everything but the summons. MOST collectors will never file suit. And, most of those who do will dismiss the suit as soon as you fight back. The rest will lose as soon as they cannot validate the debt PROPERLY.

NEVER deal with any third party debt collector.
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#12 Consumer Suggestion

re

AUTHOR: Michael - (U.S.A.)

Go to budhibbs.com

He is a consumer advocate who HATES debt collection agencies who break the law and holds them accountable.

His site has advice on how to deal with these parasites.

Don't roll over and take it. Fight back!
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#13 UPDATE Employee

I understand your frustration

AUTHOR: Nathan - (U.S.A.)

I am an employee of NAFS and have been for almost 2 years now. I would like to first take a moment to explain that we are a debt collection agency. We are not out there to embarrass innocent people. Our goal is to help keep interest rates down by collecting on unpaid debts. We work in a large office with almost 1000 people working there. It is expected that when you have 1000 people doing the same job a few of them are going to be bad seeds. However there is a lot you should all know...

1. We can not offer a debt management company or an attune any settlement that we cant offer you directly. We are allowed to offer a settlement based on a client aggregate regardless of who is asking for it so save your money. No need to pay a settlement company 15% of your total debts up front and a 150$ monthly fee so they can take $4,ooo of your plus over $1,000 to settle a $20,000 acct for $11,000 costing you over $16,000... we could have just given you the same deal for the $11,000. They are the real thieves preying on people who just are afraid to pick up the phone

2. We don't call people who can't pay. The only people who get calls more than once a week are people who judging from their credit reports can pay. Otherwise we wouldn't waste our time.

3.if you call us and inform us of your personal hardships we will do everything in our power to put something together that works for you... if it doesn't work for you it doesn't work for anyone.

4. I am always willing to help with anyone who is having a hard time. I am a single father who has just as much a hard time as anyone else so I can always help anyone who is willing to help themselves. If you are not happy with the treatment you are receiving than ask for extension 2501 and ask for Mr. Binder and I will gladly see to it that any rude collector so reprimanded and that you are treated with the fairness you deserve.
-Mr. Binder x2501

Ps. any of you who work in an office of more than 10 people know that there are always going to be bad eggs in every company, tell me about my bad eggs and I will help you with your debt.
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#14 Author of original report

The Other Fishy Thing Is...

AUTHOR: Tiffany - (U.S.A.)

The other fishy thing is why have we never gotten a bill from the company that they say we owe money to? Not one letter from this company saying we owe them money... just this letter from NAFS...how I got to this ripoff website is I typed NAFS in the search engine. Their were may reports on this website that this company has tried and has scammed some people. I am just throwing this letter away and calling it good...and to check our credit report often to make sure this is not on there. Thank you for your time....
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#15 Author of original report

Just Passing On Some Info Is all...

AUTHOR: Tiffany - (U.S.A.)

To your response to "K" in Kansas their are reports on this rip off report website that this company is indeed fraudulent. And No the addresses are not P.O. boxes...The first address is NAFS Of Canada 335 Ontario ST The second address is National Action Financial Services 165 Lawerence Bell Dr STE 100 Willamsville NY 14221
And the address on the top right is 6341 Inducon Drive East Sandborn, NY 14132 (a companies name isn't even above this address) I looked it up and it is Matrix Imaging Solutions. To me this is raising red flags. Another thing the company that they say my husband owes money to we have never even heard of or purchased anything from them. I am sorry we just don't have money to hand over to people that we don't even owe. I have two small children that have autism and our income is limited.
I was just passing on info to try and help people out if they received a similar letter.
Thank you......
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#16 Consumer Suggestion

So

AUTHOR: K - (U.S.A.)

Are the addresses on the letter po boxes? They could be their office locations or mailing locations for them. Why contact the BBB. it will do no good, they dont handle collection agencies and nothing will come of it, except a note on their BBB record, that they are probably not even members of.
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