PSI Seminars Cult tatics and emotional raping Nationwide

Yeah climbing poles make you realize what you're missing in life? Come on!!!!! Your really want a thrill???? Jump out of a plane.

You found the meaning of life in this crap but can't understand why someone can't keep to their word? Please read what you wrote here. PSI graduates come away from the "programs" as liars and cheats. They leave their families and friends because the only ones who understand them are their PSI "Buddies."

They bankrupt themselves buying the things that make them happy; "more PSI Programs."

To Whom It May Concern: I lived in Las Vegas In 2005 and attended the PSI Basic course. It was stuff I knew but I kept an open mind. Had a great time and made a nice friendship with a very nice lady.

Went to the PSI 7 course in N. Cal. For me I realized I will get out of it what I put into it. I tend to be a militant type of man who follows the rules and do as I'm instructed. It's a part of being a team member.

The instructors were intimidating at first...part of their job. They wanted to put the students off balance and make us uncomfortable. It's a choice of allowing the ego to control or having trust in that other part of ourselves and take a risk. This is what the instructors were trying to accomplish.

For me this course was awesome. Yes there was pressure. I had a choice in ALL things. For one week I allowed myself to participate in something different, soul searching, thought provoking and at times irritating. And PSI 7 was wonderful. Again I got out of it what I put into it.

Now....the other side of the story. Not everyone lives a disciplined life style. I am a mature gay man and I have been HIV positive since 1983. I have learned over the years to challenge/question authority and in many cases break paradigms.

What irritated me was the gossip of the straight members of the PSI 7 group. The drama, bitchin' and moaning! And "my buddy" I found out later broke several of the rules! It was 7 freakin' days of discipline! And he as with others were too selfish, self-centered to follow the rules for 7 little days! And it appears that he committed adultery during our seminar. I am the eternal monogamist!

PSI SEMINARS IS A BUSINESS! Make no doubt about it. You are either sharp enough to know what you can and will do or you do not! Would I go to another PSI Seminar? I seriously doubt it. I refuse to have any contact with any member in my group. Reason? Example. One young lady PSI7 member jumped all over me for being HIV positive and making a big deal out of nothing! AIDS is a death sentence for the most part. I later found out that 18 months after we finished our PSI 7 course she got knocked up and was pregnant. Whatever happened to SELF RESPONSIBLITY?? Worse....what would of happened if she caught HIV, HEP C or some other disease?

We all walk in different shoes and take different paths if life. When I found out I was POZ I knew that I better get my act together or I was going to die! In reality, 25 yrs POZ and healthy as a horse is a good record. And I'm probably healthier now then I was when I contacted HIV.

To PSI 7 LAS VEGAS AND N CAL.....THANK YOU! You gave me the "space/place/opportunity" to grow. It was up to me to take advantage of it. And yes I did make it up to the top of that d**n telephone pole!

It appears this person has emotional issues which have never been resolved since they blame everyone for their life or lack of... so who is responsible for this person's life?? They note who did what to them and never once mention how they contributed, or perhaps their fragile emotional state has some warped idea of what is REAL and what is perceived! These individuals need to seek deep physiological counseling and treatment to restore reality in their world. The PSI applications requires full disclosure on past emotional problems be revealed. Again NOT taking responsibility is the root cause issue.

This individual should look at the rest of their life as they certainly have issues with their family, spouse, employers, friends and co-workers... again other people are to blame for their problems... Buttons get pushed every day and how a person handles this and takes responsibility for their actions is what makes the difference. Blaming parents, siblings, teachers, employers or co-workers is what is wrong with our society. Our prisons are full of people whom blame everyone for their life.

Grow up Darin!!! I am sure your whining has taken you far in your life!! Blaming PSI is just another name in the long list of blames you have assigned for your own short comings!!

Clinical psychologist Philip Cushman explains what's wrong with LGATs, aka "mass marathon training."

An excerpt from "The Politics of Transformation: Recruitment - Indoctrination Processes in a Mass Marathon Psychology Organization"

Published by St. Martin's Press 1993

By Philip Cushman, Ph.D.

Mass marathon training is usually based on the belief that it is a universal truth that all human beings will have problems in life until they develop deep cathartic psychological insight, experience completely their every feeling, and live only in the present moment (see Brewer, 1975; Bry, 1976; Rhinehart, 1976). According to this ideology all defenses are bad and must be destroyed. They shape their group exercises in order to uncover and intensify the participants' underlying conflicts and deficits. Everyone must be exposed to these exercises; there are no exceptions. When all defenses are destroyed, they claim there is literally no limit to what each individual can accomplish.

Yet there is research that contradicts this universal claim. Applebaum (1976) reported on the results of the Psychotherapy Research Project of the Henninger Foundation, which attempted to better understand the effects of psychological insight in the treatment of patients who had ego-function difficulties and severe characterological problems. After insight-oriented treatment. a substantial number of patients were found to have changed for the worse. The data confirmed that the "screened-off aspects of one's self" are hidden for a reason; for some types of people the conflicts that necessitated the screening off should remain hidden. Psychology, Applebaum argued, has to recognize the factors, which impinge upon whether, when, how much, and what kind of insight a particular person in particular circumstances should be helped to achieve. We need to know . . . the patient's capacities in order to design the best amount, kind, and timing of insight. (1976, pp. 205-206)

The data demonstrated Applebaum's contention that differential diagnosis and a differential treatment plan is crucial in effective psychotherapy. This conclusion challenges the universal and absolutist claims of insight oriented mass marathon groups. Applebaum warned that

"Until we give up the pipe dream of insight as a universal good or a universal bad, we and our patients will, at times, be injured by its dangerous edge." (1976. p. 206)

Just as Applebaum criticized those who considered the indiscriminate use of insight a universal therapeutic panaceas so too did Hampden-Turner (1976) attack those who treat human growth like a consumer product, indiscriminately applying certain techniques to every customer who appears with a blank check. He vigorously disagreed with the ethics of

"The pop supermarket, the idea that you can purchase a "peak" here and a "high" there, and go psycho-shopping for prepackaged experiencesin fact human growth is not like a product at all, and we vitiate it utterly by pandering to the consumer ethos." (1976, p. 3)

His critique focused particularly upon the highly structured, authoritarian, insight-oriented marathon workshops. Some aspects of humanistic psychology, he argued, seem

"to have almost forgotten that our most precious human values are achieved by indirection as opposed to the means ends rationality of industrial production. . . I seriously question any high that has been programmed in advance." (1976, pp. 1-2)

He voiced his disagreement with psychological ideologies that discount or deny the significance of the sociohistorical and economic realities of the situation in which the client lives. These ideologies instead argue for the grandiose delusion of the ultimate limitlessness of the individual. To the organizations that teach this ideology he posed a provoking question:

"If we are not aware of what the economy does to us, are we self aware at all? Any genuine search for truth must remind us of the things we cannot change." (1576, P. 3)

In this way Hampden-Turner raised an issue that Sampson (1981) expanded upon. Sampson criticized cognitive psychology (the single most prominent aspect of the ideology of many mass marathon organizations) for its "subjectivist reduction." By this he meant the regressive tendency to discount the nonsubjective world by considering it to be either a hallucination or subject to the total control of the individual. According to some mass marathon organizations, human fetuses choose their parents, female victims choose to be raped, and Vietnamese children chose to be bombed. The regressive aspects of this ideology seem to be readily apparent.

Sampson demonstrated how a regressive psychological doctrine can impact on political activity. He argued that an ideology both accurately expresses the "zeitgeist" of the era and may also inaccurately distort the facts in order to serve the ruling elite. He explained how cognitivism as an ideology serves the status quo of power and privilege in American society by teaching individuals to reinterpret their internal response to a painful experience rather than to work at rearranging the external situation so that it could better facilitate personal and communal well being.

Humanistic psychology owes much to Lewin's "laboratory movement, " which originally developed the encounter-group format at the Bethel Institute. Mass marathon psychotherapy organizations claim that they are within the legitimate tradition of this movement. They claim that their training techniques, which include severe milieu control and a rigid ideology, are taken directly from the encounter movement of years past. And yet Gottschalk and Pattison's (1969) study of the history of T-groups and the laboratory movement appears to refute that claim. They found that the laboratory movement was originally an attempt to encourage democracy within community action groups. It was composed of three types of groups: T-groups, task-oriented groups dedicated to teaching about group process, and intervention labs whose goals were action-oriented community improvement programs. The authors found that the original unified effort diverged into an increasing number of activities, each with different philosophical foundations and agendas. The shift in the 1950s to "individual growth. . . . self knowledge, to actualization and maturation" (1969, p. 4) was a clear deviation from the founding philosophy.

They reported that T-group participants sometimes complained of the hidden. agendas, group norms, and covert values of charismatic group leaders and their loyal followers.

They found that the trainer and various group members are calling upon them to stop certain ways of behaving, talking, thinking, and feeling, and that different ways of behaving are being prescribed. (p. 12)

Also the T-group was found to consciously evoke dramatic reactions in the participants, which often involved an exaggeration of impulsive traits and personality styles.

Gottschalk and Pattison isolated 13 liabilities of encounter groups, some of which are similar to characteristics of most current mass marathon psychotherapy training sessions:

1. They lack adequate participant-selection criteria.

2. They lack reliable norms, supervision, and adequate training for leaders.

3. They lack clearly defined responsibility.

4. They sometimes foster pseudoauthenticity and pseudoreality.

5. They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of relationships.

6. They sometimes ignore the necessity and utility of ego defenses.

7. They sometimes teach the covert value of total exposure instead of valuing personal differences.

8. They sometimes foster impulsive personality styles and behavioral strategies.

9. They sometimes devalue critical thinking in favor of "experiencing" without self-analysis or reflection.

10. They sometimes ignore stated goals, misrepresent their actual techniques, and obfuscate their real agenda.

11. They sometimes focus too much on structural self-awareness techniques and misplace the goal of democratic education; as a result participants may learn more about themselves and less about group process.

12. They pay inadequate attention to decisions regarding time limitations. This may lead to increased pressure on some participants to unconsciously "fabricate" a cure.

13. They fail to adequately consider the "psychonoxious" or deleterious effects of group participation (or] adverse countertransference reactions. (1969, p. 13)

As a result, participants and leaders may unconsciously distort their feelings and responses when reporting to researchers about the group or recruiting for future groups. This might result in a deceptive "oversell" that could undermine informed consent and lead to unrealistic regressive expectations in new recruits, the specific type of problems that have been found to lead to psychological casualties (see Yalom & Lieberman, 1972, below). Since these liabilities are so similar to the techniques used in some mass marathon training's, they may also cause psychological damage in that setting as well.

In a significant study with far-reaching consequences for the study of mass marathon training's, Yalom and Lieberman (1972) observed in 209 undergraduate subjects the negative effects of participation in an encounter group. Over the course of 10 weeks, 18 groups met for 30 hours; there were also 150 fifty control subjects who did not attend any group.

Each group was run by a leader who was chosen because he was an excellent representative of one of 10 ideological schools of encounter (T-groups, Gestalt, Rogerian-marathon, psychodrama, psychoanalytic, Transactional Analysis, sensory awareness, Synanon, personal growth, black-white encounter, and leaderless). Each was given complete freedom.

Yalom and Lieberman's primary interest was in assessing the types and causes of psychiatric "casualties." The operational definition of a casualty was "an enduring, significant, negative outcome which . . . was caused byparticipation in the group" (1972, p. 223). There is little doubt that the careful, conservative manner in which the study was conducted tended to minimize negative results and reduce the risk to subjects (1972, p. 228). The authors developed a system for identifying subjects who were harmed. Their definition of this subsample and their means of locating it were characteristically conservative. Subjects were included in the casualty subsample only when they had experienced "enduring" negative change and

"as a direct result of . . . [their] experience in the encounter group became more psychologically distressed and/or employed more maladaptive mechanisms of defense." (1972. p. 228)

Also, the experience must have been proven to be the responsible element in the psychological decompensation. For example, one subject committed suicide during the study and was not counted as a casualty because the suicide could have been caused from past encounter group experiences.

In a startling finding, Yalom and Lieberman reported that 9.4% of the subjects met their stringent criteria and were therefore identified as casualties. The authors viewed this as a serious challenge to the entire movement.

The authors also determined that it was neither the psychological traits of the subjects (i.e., predispositional factors) nor the ideology of the leaders (i.e., doctrinal factors) that determined the casualty rate. Instead, surprisingly, it was the style of leadership that was primary. Leaders who were aggressive, stimulating, intrusive, confrontive, challenging, personally revealing, and authoritarian were the leaders who caused the casualties.

Specifically these leaders often unilaterally structured the group's events. Their focus was on the individual rather than group process. They provided a comprehensive intellectual framework with which to understand one's self and one's world. They exercised firm control and were "ready, willing and able" to take over for participants and guide them to "enlightenment" (1972, p. 236). They were People who were charismatic leaders: they had a universal message to deliver, a foolproof technique to use, and a cause to recruit for. They were uninhibited in their attempts to convert all the participants in their group. These characteristics are clearly duplicated by many mass marathon trainers. The findings corroborated Gottschalk and Pattison's 1969 conclusions and again call into question many tactics used by mass marathon organizations.

Of the categories that caused casualties, "rejection" was the most damaging. "Failure to achieve unrealistic goals" was the second most dangerous category. Each of these subjects reported being pressed for a breakthrough without being able to deliver. "Leader attack"-"group attack" tied for third. The fact that participants were restrained from leaving, that they had "no place to hide," was thought to be a crucial element. "Group pressure to experience and express feelings" also caused casualties. When subjects couldn't comply, they felt a "sense of hollowness" which led to a "deficient or empty self-image" (1972, p. 243).

Interestingly, many subjects who demographically resembled the casualty subsample didn't have negative experiences. Yalom and Lieberman found that they had more realistic expectations for the experience, they were not lonely or depressed, they remained uninvolved (i.e. "they did not enter into a public confessional and therefore maintained their objectivity and their 'observing ego'"), they dropped out of the group, they depended on a positive self-concept when they were negatively criticized by the group, or they used an outside reference group to bolster their own beliefs when in conflict with a group norm.

The authors suggested that a questionnaire that detects unrealistic expectations would be a helpful counterindicator when attempting to predict which potential participants would be at risk. In summary, Yalom and Lieberman stressed that casualties were caused by the style and techniques of the leader, and by recruitment and selection practices.

The groups were determined to be dangerous when:

1. Leaders had rigid, unbending beliefs about what participants should experience and believe, how they should behave in the group. and when they should change.

2. Leaders had no sense of differential diagnosis and assessment skills, valued cathartic emotional breakthroughs as the ultimate therapeutic experience, and sadistically pressed to create or force a breakthrough in every participant.

3. Leaders had an evangelical system of belief that was the one single pathway to salvation.

4. Leaders were true believers and sealed their doctrine off from discomforting data or disquieting results and tended to discount a poor result by, "blaming the victim."

Yalom and Lieberman concluded by again emphasizing the crucial importance of informed consent. "Our best means of prevention," they maintained, remains the type of group the subject enters, and our best means for prevention is self-selection. If responsible public education can teach prospective encounter group members about what they can expect in terms of process, risks, and profits from a certain type of group, then and only then can they make an informed decision about membership. (p. 253)

It is instructive to note that many mass marathon organizations are conducting their training in the exact manner found by Yalom and Lieberman to cause the greatest number of psychiatric casualties

Note: For a day-by-day breakdown overview of the training process see Philip Cushman's "Description of the Behavioral Structure of the Training."

I completed a PSI seminar, including their advanced courses, over 15 years ago. The seminar instructor (Chuck was his name I believe) took advantage of weak and vulnerable individuals going through tough emotional times. This cult is an alternative to organized religion, yet offers the same result - a man in power manipulating his subjects for sexual and financial gain. Whether you're an instructor, Priest, Pastor or Rabbi. There is a corruption that occurs when an individual is given this kind of power. The reason people are willing to pay the exorbitant fees is often due to their emotional state at the time. People want answers and control of their lives again. They will give up anything to gain this back in their lives. PSI is nothing more than a drug which makes you feel better for a few days or weeks. Some PSI assistants are 'seminar junkies' who either use PSI as a substitute for religion, or feed off the power they are given. They don't take the tools and move forward, they hang around and feed off the vulnerable, and each month there are new subjects to feed off of, just like a parasite.
There is no free lunch gang - and PSI is nothing but a scam and a quick brainwashing fix.
SAVE YOUR MONEY AND STAY AWAY!!!

Anonymous
Las Vegas Nv., Nevada
U.S.A.

Hello Curious PSI Seekers!
The reason for this rebuttal is to simply say thank you to the guy that is posting all of this stuff in my name. Please know, I didn't write this stuff, however, I do appreciate him sending me curious folks like you that have heard great things about PSI. I can tell you, it has been one of the best things I have ever done for myself. I am getting all kinds of emails now asking for information.

It is funny how him posting negative stuff in my name is actually working in my favor to drive traffic to our site. You can send me an email from there and ask your question about psi. Don't believe the stuff you read on these cult forums because it is one guy going in and posting over and over in various made up names. People are naturally curious when they don't understand something and it seems this particular guy is posting stuff all over the web in my name about psi.

I have never had someone help drive traffic to my site...it is quite amazing actually. So hats off to the guy posting this stuff and keep up the good work. I am loving the amount of traffic going up and all the folks that have questions about PSISeminars. It has been the best thing for my marriage, business and life!

Michelle Shelton

listen man you've got to be kidding me. you are complaining because they brought out some emotions that you can't deal with, you sound like a little girl.

Isn't that what these types of classes do, you sound like a criminal to me dude.

P.S.I is a good organization that promotes healing and love. Maybe if more people did classes like P.S.I and others we would have less kids being shot in schools now a days.

Diz

This was posted by a man who lost his wife.


Thank you for the concern for what my family is going through. I am very concerned as my daughters and I are the one's living this nightmare. I would like to point out though that your statements about PSI are somewhat like what my wife is spouting towards me, my family and friends. Her new PSI friends discount everything I say and respond with the same verbal b*u*l*l*s*h**t. Take the basic, It will change your life, and resistance is persistence. My wife asked me to come to her basic graduation last month and all I heard was a big sales pitch. I couldn't understand what was so great about this seminar. I was approached by a couple of men who had just graduated and they were asking me if I was interested in this class. I was polite and told them no; I did not see what it had to offer me and the presentation told me nothing. They responded you need to experience it for yourself. You and all her PSI friends sound like a bunch of robots programmed to say the same thing.

One of your comments was maybe you should do the basic? Your statement I am going to do PSI7 soon but before I enrolled in it I needed my wife to do the basic as well. My question is WHY? Why does your wife need to take the basic before your go to PSI7? As for your comment about families are teams. They need to be in sync pulling in all the same direction. My wife and I have been married 19 years, were dating two years before that, and no major arguments or disagreements. The only fight I can recall in 19 years was where we where going on vacation 10 years ago. The family has been in sync up until her return from PSI 7 in California.

And what do you mean Do you see it coming yet? What exactly does that mean? What is IT? (And I don't mean your IT company.)

Your statement that I need to experience irst hand what my wife went though and that way you would be able to tell for yourself. I don't need or want to climb to the top of phone poles, go over walls and stand on the edge of a cliff to experience life. I don't need or want to stand in a circle by candlelight and look into the eyes of a stranger and make a proclamation to them that I want to be intimate with him/her or it. I am a MARRIED man and the only one I would do that with is MY WIFE! That's if she comes to her senses. I don't need to read a PSI Bible, one like the wife brought home, written by a dead man who didn't have the sense to keep his feet on the ground as I read he died in a plane crash back in the 70's. Maybe he didn't believe this non-sense either as I am sure the universe would have allowed him to walk away from his accident.

As for you saving me from the usually PSI speech; I see you made it anyway. Why do I need to be exposed to strangers at a ranch in California? Why would I want to? If I were to go to PSI why would I stand in front of a group and tell them what I have hidden in my heart and mind? Those things make me what I am. I learned from my mistakes and moved on, so why be reminded of them? I live with them everyday. We all have something buried in our past that is best left forgotten. Why would I share that with a bunch of strangers? Why would I go to the ranch and attend a barn dance? What is the point? I have gone to several social functions over the years and danced with my wife and my friends. I even danced with my daughters even though it embarrassed the hell out of them. (Sorry that one made me smile for a second). But this brings me to a point. I have made a point of being a member of MY family; not some group mentality that doesn't give due consideration to destroying a family to make a dollar. Not once have I come home from a training session for work or any other type of training and thought I think I'll leave my family because there's something better out there. I have sometimes thought that I would rather be at home with my family than at a training seminar.

What value does PSI really offer? Your statements make no sense to me and leads me to believe that you think I am closed minded. Believe me I AM NOT THAT CLOSED MINDED! But I have made up my mind. I have made my choices and they don't include PSI. I have seen the evil man can do to one another (and I don't mean on the TV news) and I have continued to maintain a course for a healthy life and emotional wellbeing. That's until my wife returned from PSI7. Now I am stressed out and fear that something is going to happen to her. I am stressed out that this is going to destroy my family. I am stress out that this is going to destroy my relationship with the woman I love and have loved for the past 21 years. I am stressed out this is going to destroy my wife's relationship with her daughters. And believe me she is already on her way in the short week she has been back from PSI7.

Your statement The thing with this kind of companies is that it is very difficult to discern the good ones from the bad ones so the only way is getting references about them. Where did you get the references before going to PSI? You said you were sent by the company you worked for. I saw nothing to indicate that you checked PSI out before you attended this class/seminar. How do I know if you weren't brainwashed? Have you considered the possibility that you were brainwashed? Are you willing to even admit that you might have been conned by this company and the only thing you got was some empty pockets and a warped sense of wellbeing? Are you looking at the world with rose colored glasses now that you've taken the basic? Or are you the one that is closed minded and willing to read what other people have written?

As for the references I have looked at this board and other posts on other web sites and I have found that a lot of people are VICTIMS of this group. I have only started to read the other posts and it's very apparent that you DID NOT! If you checked PSI out before you attended the seminars I'm sure you wouldn't have gone. The information is out there; all you need to do is read it. And don't respond that these messages are from people who are disillusioned with PSI because I already know that. I see the pain this has caused the people who went and for the people who were left behind. And I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the information I have to look at. But with as much as there is out there you need to realize that PSI does cause people problems, very much like the problems I am experiencing. I have even read a threat on here from people who have gone to the training, returned and thrown their relationships away based on the power of this training only to later regret their decision. Some even admit that this training is a CULT. Oh wait; the fact that you posted here indicates you are reading the information people have provided and you're still not getting IT.

PSI Seminars is for real? So real that they are INperfect? Is this more PSI Speak? What kind of statement is that? If they are imperfect why are you taking the seminar? Why are you attempting to sell me on this course (or curse)? Get the stuff that helps and discard the rest? You do that with any training you go to. If they're pushy enough that you can equate them to car salesmen you need to wake up and get out while you still have your sanity and money.

And your comment What if your family starts functioning better? Not perfect simply better. My family has gone though most of the trials and tribulations that every family does; now to include this bullsh*. My family is simply that; MY FAMILY! It does not belong to PSI.. My family was fine, not perfect, but fine in the aspects that I enjoyed coming home every night to be with them until my wife's returned from this PSI bullsh*. I have two beautiful daughters whom I am very proud of. They are growing into responsible people and they don't need to see their mother, the woman who helped raised them, throwing her marriage and family to side because PSI is now more important. If you believe PSI is the answer to your problems you are kidding yourself just like she is. If you saw the change in her in the SHORT time since she's been back you would understand. No; I take that back, you wouldn't understand because you sound just like her, but for the others reading this, the ones who have lived with/through this would. I rather place my money on that bet than I would shelling it out to PSI and getting mindf*ked for the trouble. (Sorry for my language.)

I am going to be real with you Devil this BS is destroying my family and you are on this message board telling me that if I take these seminars it will correct the problems. Well I don't think so. If you were stupid enough to be sucked into this scam that's your problem. I have to deal with this, not you. You may have fooled you wife into taking this but at what cost? What if she trusted you enough to get her involved in this and she returns with a new attitude just like my wife? What happens when she returns from this and leaves you? What are you going to say then? Are you going to except the fact she just left to do what? Find her own path? Or are you going to except the responsibility for destroying your marriage because you (YES YOU) are the one who enrolled her in this program. If you don't believe it could happen you are living in a dream world.

And I would like to wish you luck also; I think you're going to need it because I don't believe the lie of PSI and I am offended that you think I would.

PS: I am sorry if I offended anybody with my language, but I call it like it is. I would like to thank those of you who were influenced by these groups, had the courage to admit it and instead of remaining silent came forward, told your story in the hopes it would save someone the same trouble. I truly admire that.

This was posted by a man who lost his wife.


Thank you for the concern for what my family is going through. I am very concerned as my daughters and I are the one's living this nightmare. I would like to point out though that your statements about PSI are somewhat like what my wife is spouting towards me, my family and friends. Her new PSI friends discount everything I say and respond with the same verbal b*u*l*l*s*h**t. Take the basic, It will change your life, and resistance is persistence. My wife asked me to come to her basic graduation last month and all I heard was a big sales pitch. I couldn't understand what was so great about this seminar. I was approached by a couple of men who had just graduated and they were asking me if I was interested in this class. I was polite and told them no; I did not see what it had to offer me and the presentation told me nothing. They responded you need to experience it for yourself. You and all her PSI friends sound like a bunch of robots programmed to say the same thing.

One of your comments was maybe you should do the basic? Your statement I am going to do PSI7 soon but before I enrolled in it I needed my wife to do the basic as well. My question is WHY? Why does your wife need to take the basic before your go to PSI7? As for your comment about families are teams. They need to be in sync pulling in all the same direction. My wife and I have been married 19 years, were dating two years before that, and no major arguments or disagreements. The only fight I can recall in 19 years was where we where going on vacation 10 years ago. The family has been in sync up until her return from PSI 7 in California.

And what do you mean Do you see it coming yet? What exactly does that mean? What is IT? (And I don't mean your IT company.)

Your statement that I need to experience irst hand what my wife went though and that way you would be able to tell for yourself. I don't need or want to climb to the top of phone poles, go over walls and stand on the edge of a cliff to experience life. I don't need or want to stand in a circle by candlelight and look into the eyes of a stranger and make a proclamation to them that I want to be intimate with him/her or it. I am a MARRIED man and the only one I would do that with is MY WIFE! That's if she comes to her senses. I don't need to read a PSI Bible, one like the wife brought home, written by a dead man who didn't have the sense to keep his feet on the ground as I read he died in a plane crash back in the 70's. Maybe he didn't believe this non-sense either as I am sure the universe would have allowed him to walk away from his accident.

As for you saving me from the usually PSI speech; I see you made it anyway. Why do I need to be exposed to strangers at a ranch in California? Why would I want to? If I were to go to PSI why would I stand in front of a group and tell them what I have hidden in my heart and mind? Those things make me what I am. I learned from my mistakes and moved on, so why be reminded of them? I live with them everyday. We all have something buried in our past that is best left forgotten. Why would I share that with a bunch of strangers? Why would I go to the ranch and attend a barn dance? What is the point? I have gone to several social functions over the years and danced with my wife and my friends. I even danced with my daughters even though it embarrassed the hell out of them. (Sorry that one made me smile for a second). But this brings me to a point. I have made a point of being a member of MY family; not some group mentality that doesn't give due consideration to destroying a family to make a dollar. Not once have I come home from a training session for work or any other type of training and thought I think I'll leave my family because there's something better out there. I have sometimes thought that I would rather be at home with my family than at a training seminar.

What value does PSI really offer? Your statements make no sense to me and leads me to believe that you think I am closed minded. Believe me I AM NOT THAT CLOSED MINDED! But I have made up my mind. I have made my choices and they don't include PSI. I have seen the evil man can do to one another (and I don't mean on the TV news) and I have continued to maintain a course for a healthy life and emotional wellbeing. That's until my wife returned from PSI7. Now I am stressed out and fear that something is going to happen to her. I am stressed out that this is going to destroy my family. I am stress out that this is going to destroy my relationship with the woman I love and have loved for the past 21 years. I am stressed out this is going to destroy my wife's relationship with her daughters. And believe me she is already on her way in the short week she has been back from PSI7.

Your statement The thing with this kind of companies is that it is very difficult to discern the good ones from the bad ones so the only way is getting references about them. Where did you get the references before going to PSI? You said you were sent by the company you worked for. I saw nothing to indicate that you checked PSI out before you attended this class/seminar. How do I know if you weren't brainwashed? Have you considered the possibility that you were brainwashed? Are you willing to even admit that you might have been conned by this company and the only thing you got was some empty pockets and a warped sense of wellbeing? Are you looking at the world with rose colored glasses now that you've taken the basic? Or are you the one that is closed minded and willing to read what other people have written?

As for the references I have looked at this board and other posts on other web sites and I have found that a lot of people are VICTIMS of this group. I have only started to read the other posts and it's very apparent that you DID NOT! If you checked PSI out before you attended the seminars I'm sure you wouldn't have gone. The information is out there; all you need to do is read it. And don't respond that these messages are from people who are disillusioned with PSI because I already know that. I see the pain this has caused the people who went and for the people who were left behind. And I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the information I have to look at. But with as much as there is out there you need to realize that PSI does cause people problems, very much like the problems I am experiencing. I have even read a threat on here from people who have gone to the training, returned and thrown their relationships away based on the power of this training only to later regret their decision. Some even admit that this training is a CULT. Oh wait; the fact that you posted here indicates you are reading the information people have provided and you're still not getting IT.

PSI Seminars is for real? So real that they are INperfect? Is this more PSI Speak? What kind of statement is that? If they are imperfect why are you taking the seminar? Why are you attempting to sell me on this course (or curse)? Get the stuff that helps and discard the rest? You do that with any training you go to. If they're pushy enough that you can equate them to car salesmen you need to wake up and get out while you still have your sanity and money.

And your comment What if your family starts functioning better? Not perfect simply better. My family has gone though most of the trials and tribulations that every family does; now to include this bullsh*. My family is simply that; MY FAMILY! It does not belong to PSI.. My family was fine, not perfect, but fine in the aspects that I enjoyed coming home every night to be with them until my wife's returned from this PSI bullsh*. I have two beautiful daughters whom I am very proud of. They are growing into responsible people and they don't need to see their mother, the woman who helped raised them, throwing her marriage and family to side because PSI is now more important. If you believe PSI is the answer to your problems you are kidding yourself just like she is. If you saw the change in her in the SHORT time since she's been back you would understand. No; I take that back, you wouldn't understand because you sound just like her, but for the others reading this, the ones who have lived with/through this would. I rather place my money on that bet than I would shelling it out to PSI and getting mindf*ked for the trouble. (Sorry for my language.)

I am going to be real with you Devil this BS is destroying my family and you are on this message board telling me that if I take these seminars it will correct the problems. Well I don't think so. If you were stupid enough to be sucked into this scam that's your problem. I have to deal with this, not you. You may have fooled you wife into taking this but at what cost? What if she trusted you enough to get her involved in this and she returns with a new attitude just like my wife? What happens when she returns from this and leaves you? What are you going to say then? Are you going to except the fact she just left to do what? Find her own path? Or are you going to except the responsibility for destroying your marriage because you (YES YOU) are the one who enrolled her in this program. If you don't believe it could happen you are living in a dream world.

And I would like to wish you luck also; I think you're going to need it because I don't believe the lie of PSI and I am offended that you think I would.

PS: I am sorry if I offended anybody with my language, but I call it like it is. I would like to thank those of you who were influenced by these groups, had the courage to admit it and instead of remaining silent came forward, told your story in the hopes it would save someone the same trouble. I truly admire that.

This was posted by a man who lost his wife.


Thank you for the concern for what my family is going through. I am very concerned as my daughters and I are the one's living this nightmare. I would like to point out though that your statements about PSI are somewhat like what my wife is spouting towards me, my family and friends. Her new PSI friends discount everything I say and respond with the same verbal b*u*l*l*s*h**t. Take the basic, It will change your life, and resistance is persistence. My wife asked me to come to her basic graduation last month and all I heard was a big sales pitch. I couldn't understand what was so great about this seminar. I was approached by a couple of men who had just graduated and they were asking me if I was interested in this class. I was polite and told them no; I did not see what it had to offer me and the presentation told me nothing. They responded you need to experience it for yourself. You and all her PSI friends sound like a bunch of robots programmed to say the same thing.

One of your comments was maybe you should do the basic? Your statement I am going to do PSI7 soon but before I enrolled in it I needed my wife to do the basic as well. My question is WHY? Why does your wife need to take the basic before your go to PSI7? As for your comment about families are teams. They need to be in sync pulling in all the same direction. My wife and I have been married 19 years, were dating two years before that, and no major arguments or disagreements. The only fight I can recall in 19 years was where we where going on vacation 10 years ago. The family has been in sync up until her return from PSI 7 in California.

And what do you mean Do you see it coming yet? What exactly does that mean? What is IT? (And I don't mean your IT company.)

Your statement that I need to experience irst hand what my wife went though and that way you would be able to tell for yourself. I don't need or want to climb to the top of phone poles, go over walls and stand on the edge of a cliff to experience life. I don't need or want to stand in a circle by candlelight and look into the eyes of a stranger and make a proclamation to them that I want to be intimate with him/her or it. I am a MARRIED man and the only one I would do that with is MY WIFE! That's if she comes to her senses. I don't need to read a PSI Bible, one like the wife brought home, written by a dead man who didn't have the sense to keep his feet on the ground as I read he died in a plane crash back in the 70's. Maybe he didn't believe this non-sense either as I am sure the universe would have allowed him to walk away from his accident.

As for you saving me from the usually PSI speech; I see you made it anyway. Why do I need to be exposed to strangers at a ranch in California? Why would I want to? If I were to go to PSI why would I stand in front of a group and tell them what I have hidden in my heart and mind? Those things make me what I am. I learned from my mistakes and moved on, so why be reminded of them? I live with them everyday. We all have something buried in our past that is best left forgotten. Why would I share that with a bunch of strangers? Why would I go to the ranch and attend a barn dance? What is the point? I have gone to several social functions over the years and danced with my wife and my friends. I even danced with my daughters even though it embarrassed the hell out of them. (Sorry that one made me smile for a second). But this brings me to a point. I have made a point of being a member of MY family; not some group mentality that doesn't give due consideration to destroying a family to make a dollar. Not once have I come home from a training session for work or any other type of training and thought I think I'll leave my family because there's something better out there. I have sometimes thought that I would rather be at home with my family than at a training seminar.

What value does PSI really offer? Your statements make no sense to me and leads me to believe that you think I am closed minded. Believe me I AM NOT THAT CLOSED MINDED! But I have made up my mind. I have made my choices and they don't include PSI. I have seen the evil man can do to one another (and I don't mean on the TV news) and I have continued to maintain a course for a healthy life and emotional wellbeing. That's until my wife returned from PSI7. Now I am stressed out and fear that something is going to happen to her. I am stressed out that this is going to destroy my family. I am stress out that this is going to destroy my relationship with the woman I love and have loved for the past 21 years. I am stressed out this is going to destroy my wife's relationship with her daughters. And believe me she is already on her way in the short week she has been back from PSI7.

Your statement The thing with this kind of companies is that it is very difficult to discern the good ones from the bad ones so the only way is getting references about them. Where did you get the references before going to PSI? You said you were sent by the company you worked for. I saw nothing to indicate that you checked PSI out before you attended this class/seminar. How do I know if you weren't brainwashed? Have you considered the possibility that you were brainwashed? Are you willing to even admit that you might have been conned by this company and the only thing you got was some empty pockets and a warped sense of wellbeing? Are you looking at the world with rose colored glasses now that you've taken the basic? Or are you the one that is closed minded and willing to read what other people have written?

As for the references I have looked at this board and other posts on other web sites and I have found that a lot of people are VICTIMS of this group. I have only started to read the other posts and it's very apparent that you DID NOT! If you checked PSI out before you attended the seminars I'm sure you wouldn't have gone. The information is out there; all you need to do is read it. And don't respond that these messages are from people who are disillusioned with PSI because I already know that. I see the pain this has caused the people who went and for the people who were left behind. And I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the information I have to look at. But with as much as there is out there you need to realize that PSI does cause people problems, very much like the problems I am experiencing. I have even read a threat on here from people who have gone to the training, returned and thrown their relationships away based on the power of this training only to later regret their decision. Some even admit that this training is a CULT. Oh wait; the fact that you posted here indicates you are reading the information people have provided and you're still not getting IT.

PSI Seminars is for real? So real that they are INperfect? Is this more PSI Speak? What kind of statement is that? If they are imperfect why are you taking the seminar? Why are you attempting to sell me on this course (or curse)? Get the stuff that helps and discard the rest? You do that with any training you go to. If they're pushy enough that you can equate them to car salesmen you need to wake up and get out while you still have your sanity and money.

And your comment What if your family starts functioning better? Not perfect simply better. My family has gone though most of the trials and tribulations that every family does; now to include this bullsh*. My family is simply that; MY FAMILY! It does not belong to PSI.. My family was fine, not perfect, but fine in the aspects that I enjoyed coming home every night to be with them until my wife's returned from this PSI bullsh*. I have two beautiful daughters whom I am very proud of. They are growing into responsible people and they don't need to see their mother, the woman who helped raised them, throwing her marriage and family to side because PSI is now more important. If you believe PSI is the answer to your problems you are kidding yourself just like she is. If you saw the change in her in the SHORT time since she's been back you would understand. No; I take that back, you wouldn't understand because you sound just like her, but for the others reading this, the ones who have lived with/through this would. I rather place my money on that bet than I would shelling it out to PSI and getting mindf*ked for the trouble. (Sorry for my language.)

I am going to be real with you Devil this BS is destroying my family and you are on this message board telling me that if I take these seminars it will correct the problems. Well I don't think so. If you were stupid enough to be sucked into this scam that's your problem. I have to deal with this, not you. You may have fooled you wife into taking this but at what cost? What if she trusted you enough to get her involved in this and she returns with a new attitude just like my wife? What happens when she returns from this and leaves you? What are you going to say then? Are you going to except the fact she just left to do what? Find her own path? Or are you going to except the responsibility for destroying your marriage because you (YES YOU) are the one who enrolled her in this program. If you don't believe it could happen you are living in a dream world.

And I would like to wish you luck also; I think you're going to need it because I don't believe the lie of PSI and I am offended that you think I would.

PS: I am sorry if I offended anybody with my language, but I call it like it is. I would like to thank those of you who were influenced by these groups, had the courage to admit it and instead of remaining silent came forward, told your story in the hopes it would save someone the same trouble. I truly admire that.

Devil, that's somewhat says it all. Here is a post by a person named Mary. What would you tell her about her husbands responsibility to her. She made a good point. As for me being the victim, you're the victim. You just don't know it yet. You must be one of those that returned from the ranch and threw away your relationship and you are AFRAID to admit to yourself that you are WRONG; that your trying to justify why you left. Tell me Devil what would you say to Mary? Oh that's right she's a "victim" too.

I have been reading the posts on PSI SEMINARS for the past few days and a few things have occurred to me that I'd like to share and put out there as food for thought. There certainly has been a lot to think about lately as my husband left me after returning from PSI7. It makes me so very sad to think I am going to lose my husband to what literally amounts to brainwashing. The first thing I've noticed is that it seems to me that there are certain times of the year when things seem to happen ...inexplicably. It may be coincidence, like the idea that deaths come in threes. But, as strange as that seems to be, I have noticed that it DOES seem to happen. In much the same way, I've noticed that the Holidays seem to be a time when, if some kind of impasse is going to occur in certain marriages, they seem to come during times of celebration. Much like this celebration the group members have while they are away at the RANCH.

I know there is no logic behind it; special days where people become introspective and start thinking about their pasts, their lives, wondering what could have been, might have been, should have been and, often, when certain people go there in their minds, they seem to want to ACT. This seems especially true of people who are thinking about leaving their marriages. It's fascinating and horrifying to me that this Large Group Awareness Training causes these poor souls to lose themselves and in the process they lose their families. I have read so many posts from the people who have lost their spouses, who say that their spouses left saying this is what's right for me. Coincidental? or is it?

I think this compounds the pain for the people who lost their marriages or relationships. There you are, buzzing along in your life, thinking everything is great, planning parties, special nights, vacations, get-togethers with friends, etc. and, then, BAM! Seemingly out of nowhere, here comes your spouse, returning from the PSI Ranch suddenly disillusioned with the whole thing, bored, needing space to find themselves, unhappy for months or years, (nice of them to let you in on it, finally) or they simply just up and leave with no explanation and, consequently, no need to FEEL any of the pain and chaos they've left behind. And, there we are, trying to pick our chins off the floor and return our hearts to the tattered wounds in our chests.

It all feels like some nightmare from which there is no waking or some sad movie for which there is never enough tissue handy. We get left on our wedding anniversaries. We get left when someone dies. We get left when we are either in financial crisis, or when we have reached a point when we are financially content. We get left after the purchase of a new house, or when we are close to living in the street. We get left when we are sick. We get left when the spouse is sick and leaves to "protect" us. We get left...I could go on and on. My point is this; we get left when the other person finally exposes him/her self as someone who cannot deal with the realities of life after returning from these courses.

Seems like the person you stood with at the altar in front of loved ones and uttered words which meant so much to us suddenly develops amnesia or wakes up from this dream-like state they've been living in and, lo and behold, those promises they made become foreign to them, as if they've been watching a movie in another language without the subtitles.

While we're all living our lives, feeling secure that the person who impacts our lives the most, receives the most attention from us, shares our beds, our most intimate thoughts and knows our bodies better than we do, have promised us to love and cherish and be there for us in any and ALL circumstances suddenly seems to use some event, like attending this course at the RANCH, usually when we are distracted by the hundreds of tasks we are performing, working toward what we thought was a shared goal... when lightening strikes.

All of a sudden, we are not good enough, rich enough, passionate enough, understanding enough, skinny enough, pretty enough, handsome enough, young enough, not working hard enough, are lacking in mind-reading skills or sophisticated enough to realize that life is more than this. THIS. They look around and say to themselves and, if we're lucky, (mostly, we're not) HEY! THIS in not enough! I want more! I want (insert whatever it is they tell you they really want here). And we are thinking, HEY! I've been giving you _________! In that moment, you are not living with what you thought was a mature adult; you have been transported to the checkout counter at Wal-Mart and your spouse is having a temper-tantrum because they want something from the impulse aisle.

Why? Because they are intrigued by the newness, the pretty packaging offered by PSI, the surety that they absolutely CANNOT leave the store unless they have that. And, while you are dutifully paying for your practical purchases, they are busy hiding stuff in their pockets. Stuff they don't need. Stuff they will probably tire of soon. Stuff that just ends up clutter for someone else to clean up. And believe me there is stiff to clean up. Stuff they can't afford.

In any case, their emotional pockets are crammed with crap they never told you they required, like buying more of these seminars and emptying out your bank accounts. They just realized they needed it and will do anything to get it. No they didn't need it. They either knew all along that they wanted that stuff and were just biding their time until the right time came along to grab it or they sometime along the way saw it and thought about it until they couldn't ignore it anymore and went back and picked it up. But they NEVER give you a chance to give it to them because they don't want you to know that they always want. Want, want, want. As if we don't want too. We're just not in that big a hurry.

These people stampede over us and everyone else in their way, whether they love them or not, to get at that THING they want. A lover? Freedom? Space? A better life? Financial security? Things wrapped in shiny paper with big, colorful, fluffy bows? Makes you just want to smack 'em and tell 'em, hey! Look! I want that stuff, too. I'm just not willing to toss everything else out of the cart to make room for what usually turns out to be a beautifully- wrapped, festively adorned EMPTY BOX! And that's exactly what PSI Seminars is; an empty box!

So, after they've sacrificed everything, and went after what they wanted, had time to open it up, and find out that, in digging around in the box, they find nothing. Nothing. Just air. The same air they had before. I don't know why these things seem to happen around certain times. And, at certain points. Seven years in, fourteen, twenty-five. I'm sure some socio-scientist has a theory. I don't EVEN know.

All I know is that it happened. It happens way too much and is rewarded way too easily. Marriage, in this society, is not revered anymore and PSI destroys marriages. It is more often reviled as the quick all fix to everyone problems, well it isn't. It takes a brave person to enter that particular pool anymore. Lots of sharks swimming around in there. I don't have any real answers. I wish I did. I'd sure save each and every one of you one scary, treacherous swim.

Truth is, we don't know what we really have until we open the box. Sometimes, some parts are missing. But there's no company to order spare parts from, no service desk to complain to so, we whip out the duct tape and hope it is strong enough to hold. Sometimes, we get lucky but, eventually, the tape weakens and pulls off. And we are left with a broken item or in this case a broken heart and a broken mind. Some of these things can't be fixed.

No matter what is going on or what you have been told, you are NOT broken, so don't waste time looking for the missing parts. It is not you who needs fixing, my friends; it's them. Let them scramble around, looking for that THING. We may be bent, sometimes. We may be seriously bent, and in danger of snapping. But, then, the wind dies down and, finally, after the storm, we stand tall again, basking in the sun, looking out upon a tranquil blue ocean. That's what happiness is. It's inside of you. It always was and it always will be...if we let it be.

PSI destroyed my marriage. I will always believe that in my heart and mind. They took my husband and turned him into a mindless PSI drone. More concerned with himself then his family, his wife or children. They are unimportant. Something he was not before his return from PSI7.

Thank you

I attended both seminars in their entirety. Emotional raping? Please. What happened, did you have to face some things that you would have chose to ignore? You could have chose out at any point.

Shame? Guilt? Browbeating? Public Humiliation? What are you talking about? You remind me a lot of people who instead of dealing with their issues got hard headed, stubborn, started playing the role of the victim, and whimped out. Quit crying about it, and deal with it.

Or not. Which excercise did you bail on? The wall? The pole? The edge? Take a little responsibility for your choices and quit blaming everyone else. I found their seminars to be interesting, and had me look at a few events in my life from a different point of view. Some painful, some not. But I certainly did not feel trapped at any point. It is win-win only when you take responsibility for your choices. and you can choose not to at any time.

Are they insistent? Yes. sometimes people will only face their demons when pushed. Sometimes people don't like to be pushed. And those people have all had issues that for the first time in their lives, they have given them a voice. Their own voice. they are no more screwed up than the person sitting next to you. Wait, they ARE the person sitting next to you. It should open your eyes to the experiences that others have had that are often much worse than your own.

As for your money, if that is all this is about, you should have looked them in the eye and said "Not interested". Or is i that you lack the spine to say "no thanks"?
Conversation? no need, you already have your story going. Only one more comment.

Get over it. Psi raped indeed. pshaw.

Michelle, I understand where you're coming from with the PSI jargon, which seems to be the standard answer used by PSI drones. I would ask you what kind of responsibility PSI teaches it "students." Are the people that return from "the RANCH" leaving their husbands, wives, and families, the runners? Are they truly taking responsibility for their actions when they destroy their marriages and/or their families. What about their responsibility to their families? What about the "commitment" they made to the ones they claimed they loved? Does PSI teach you that those commitments are not important. Where is their accountability? It seems that you too "believe the lie of PSI." and I think you need to grow up and become aware.

I have been through PSI Basic, 7 and I am getting ready to attend WLS. Has it been uncomfortable? Absolutely. Not in a way of them doing something to me...in a way that I can see clearly all of my own issues and warts. The things that get in the way of me developing deeper relationships and growing as a person. After all, isn't that what personal growth really is about? This seems to be what the disgruntled folks don't like. Perhaps they don't want anyone to show them what they are really like because then they have nothing to hide behind? It feels safe that way.

The rebuttals I have read operate from a position of others are doing something to them...this is not a position of power or responsibility. It is a position of victim. Of course there ARE true victims of crimes. I don't want to give others control of my emotions. When I do that, I am giving away my power of choice and responsibility. There is no victim of daily responsibility. You either trust yourself to make a choice or you don't. You can choose to take control of your life or you can continue to not accept responsibility for your actions, behaviors and decisions and blame others for your position and decisions that drive your life. I choose to be in charge.

Full responsibility means, I make a choice and I also accept that if things go sideways...it was from my choice. This is full responsibility. Words don't mean much. For example. I had a business partner that made a costly decision...he came to me and said, "I take full responsibility for making this decision." I said, "Great, so you are writing me a check for $25,000 to cover it then?" He stammered and gave me an excuse that he couldn't pay that kind of money and after all he didn't know it was going to go south. The point is..he didn't take FULL RESPONSIBILITY or he would have taken on the outcome, the results of the decision he made.

These seminars are not about going on vacation. They are about you taking a long look at yourself and what gets in your way of what you want. You are free to choose what to do with the information you are given. The runners are the people that tend to flee when the going gets tough....they don't know what else to do but runaway. Many of these reports are filed by runners. The folks that finished, they had a clear picture of what it was all about....if you quit high school half-way through, you can't see the benefits of graduating. The college grads see the benefits...they are the finishers.

I did not like some of the stuff that I saw in myself. However, I realized that "I" was the one showing up that way in the world. The folks that couldn't get out of there fast enough, it would be my guess that they always find a reason to run when "they" are not benefiting from the way "they" show up in life. I would guess they are the runners, complainers and ones that give up when the going gets tough.

I found the seminars to be challenging, stimulating, fun and overall they gave me a wealth of awareness about myself. I was exposed to new and different ideas and a higher level of thinking and awareness. I learned more about myself in a week than I had in 15 years of reading books and listening to tapes.

I equate it with going to another country. I can read about China or I can visit. My perspective will be lasting should I visit. Although, some of the experiences may not be pleasant and fun, I will learn a lot about other people and myself. Perhaps I will see how easy I have life. This is what I think the PSI seminars are all about....perspective.

So, before you listen to the nay-Sayers, I would ask you to have them list the areas of their life where they are successful. My mother used to say, the masses are asses. Not in a bad way......in other words...look at the doers and see why their life seems so different and I bet you will find that they are leaders...leaders don't all march in the same direction...this is exactly what psi teaches...personal responsibility and personal leadership.

Michelle Shelton
Gilbert, Arizona

When I read a response that says "sorry this didn't work for you," I know to head for the door. Most of the testemonials would scare Ted Patrick( a prominent deprogrammer).

If you were to closely examine those imorived lives you would find more than destrpyed marriages in their wake. Remember, trading pot for caffine is not necessarily a good thing. I suspect that Mrs. Newly Assertive is probably Mrs. Unemployed right now.

A good rule of thumb is this: If they silence you once, silence them forever!

I have been reading the posts on PSI SEMINARS for the past few days and a few things have occurred to me that I'd like to share and put out there as food for thought. There certainly has been a lot to think about lately as my husband left me after returning from PSI7. It makes me so very sad to think I am going to lose my husband to what literally amounts to brainwashing. The first thing I've noticed is that it seems to me that there are certain times of the year when things seem to happen ...inexplicably. It may be coincidence, like the idea that deaths come in threes. But, as strange as that seems to be, I have noticed that it DOES seem to happen. In much the same way, I've noticed that the Holidays seem to be a time when, if some kind of impasse is going to occur in certain marriages, they seem to come during times of celebration. Much like this celebration the group members have while they are away at the RANCH. I know there is no logic behind it; special days where people become introspective and start thinking about their pasts, their lives, wondering what could have been, might have been, should have been and, often, when certain people go there in their minds, they seem to want to ACT. This seems especially true of people who are thinking about leaving their marriages. It's fascinating and horrifying to me that this Large Group Awareness Training causes these poor souls to lose themselves and in the process they lose their families. I have read so many posts from the people who have lost their spouses, who say that their spouses left saying this is what's right for me. Coincidental? or is it?

I think this compounds the pain for the people who lost their marriages or relationships. There you are, buzzing along in your life, thinking everything is great, planning parties, special nights, vacations, get-togethers with friends, etc. and, then, BAM! Seemingly out of nowhere, here comes your spouse, returning from the PSI Ranch suddenly disillusioned with the whole thing, bored, needing space to find themselves, unhappy for months or years, (nice of them to let you in on it, finally) or they simply just up and leave with no explanation and, consequently, no need to FEEL any of the pain and chaos they've left behind. And, there we are, trying to pick our chins off the floor and return our hearts to the tattered wounds in our chests. It all feels like some nightmare from which there is no waking or some sad movie for which there is never enough tissue handy. We get left on our wedding anniversaries. We get left when someone dies. We get left when we are either in financial crisis, or when we have reached a point when we are financially content. We get left after the purchase of a new house, or when we are close to living in the street. We get left when we are sick. We get left when the spouse is sick and leaves to "protect" us. We get left...I could go on and on. My point is this; we get left when the other person finally exposes him/her self as someone who cannot deal with the realities of life after returning from these courses.

Seems like the person you stood with at the altar in front of loved ones and uttered words which meant so much to us suddenly develops amnesia or wakes up from this dream-like state they've been living in and, lo and behold, those promises they made become foreign to them, as if they've been watching a movie in another language without the subtitles. While we're all living our lives, feeling secure that the person who impacts our lives the most, receives the most attention from us, shares our beds, our most intimate thoughts and knows our bodies better than we do, have promised us to love and cherish and be there for us in any and ALL circumstances suddenly seems to use some event, like attending this course at the RANCH, usually when we are distracted by the hundreds of tasks we are performing, working toward what we thought was a shared goal... when lightening strikes. All of a sudden, we are not good enough, rich enough, passionate enough, understanding enough, skinny enough, pretty enough, handsome enough, young enough, not working hard enough, are lacking in mind-reading skills or sophisticated enough to realize that life is more than this. THIS. They look around and say to themselves and, if we're lucky, (mostly, we're not) HEY! THIS in not enough! I want more! I want (insert whatever it is they tell you they really want here). And we are thinking, HEY! I've been giving you _________! In that moment, you are not living with what you thought was a mature adult; you have been transported to the checkout counter at Wal-Mart and your spouse is having a temper-tantrum because they want something from the impulse aisle. Why? Because they are intrigued by the newness, the pretty packaging offered by PSI, the surety that they absolutely CANNOT leave the store unless they have that. And, while you are dutifully paying for your practical purchases, they are busy hiding stuff in their pockets. Stuff they don't need. Stuff they will probably tire of soon. Stuff that just ends up clutter for someone else to clean up. And believe me there is stiff to clean up. Stuff they can't afford. In any case, their emotional pockets are crammed with crap they never told you they required, like buying more of these seminars and emptying out your bank accounts. They just realized they needed it and will do anything to get it. No they didn't need it. They either knew all along that they wanted that stuff and were just biding their time until the right time came along to grab it or they sometime along the way saw it and thought about it until they couldn't ignore it anymore and went back and picked it up. But they NEVER give you a chance to give it to them because they don't want you to know that they always want. Want, want, want. As if we don't want too. We're just not in that big a hurry.

These people stampede over us and everyone else in their way, whether they love them or not, to get at that THING they want. A lover? Freedom? Space? A better life? Financial security? Things wrapped in shiny paper with big, colorful, fluffy bows? Makes you just want to smack 'em and tell 'em, hey! Look! I want that stuff, too. I'm just not willing to toss everything else out of the cart to make room for what usually turns out to be a beautifully- wrapped, festively adorned EMPTY BOX! And that's exactly what PSI Seminars is; an empty box!!!!!!! So, after they've sacrificed everything, and went after what they wanted, had time to open it up, and find out that, in digging around in the box, they find nothing. Nothing. Just air. The same air they had before. I don't know why these things seem to happen around certain times. And, at certain points. Seven years in, fourteen, twenty-five. I'm sure some socio-scientist has a theory. I don't EVEN know. All I know is that it happened. It happens way too much and is rewarded way too easily. Marriage, in this society, is not revered anymore and PSI destroys marriages. It is more often reviled as the quick all fix to everyone problems, well it isn't. It takes a brave person to enter that particular pool anymore. Lots of sharks swimming around in there. I don't have any real answers. I wish I did. I'd sure save each and every one of you one scary, treacherous swim. Truth is, we don't know what we really have until we open the box. Sometimes, some parts are missing. But there's no company to order spare parts from, no service desk to complain to so, we whip out the duct tape and hope it is strong enough to hold. Sometimes, we get lucky but, eventually, the tape weakens and pulls off. And we are left with a broken item or in this case a broken heart and a broken mind. Some of these things can't be fixed.

No matter what is going on or what you have been told, you are NOT broken, so don't waste time looking for the missing parts. It is not you who needs fixing, my friends; it's them. Let them scramble around, looking for that THING. We may be bent, sometimes. We may be seriously bent, and in danger of snapping. But, then, the wind dies down and, finally, after the storm, we stand tall again, basking in the sun, looking out upon a tranquil blue ocean. That's what happiness is. It's inside of you. It always was and it always will be...if we let it be.

PSI destroyed my marriage. I will always believe that in my heart and mind. They took my husband and turned him into a mindless PSI drone. More concerned with himself then his family, his wife or children. They are unimportant. Something he was not before his return from PSI7.

Thank you for letting me post. Mary K

I am a PSI seminar graduate from the late 80's early 90's. I am disturbed to hear all of the different perceptions of what PSI is. All of the people that have filed complaints have left out key parts of what was in the seminar.

It has been a while but I remember hearing "the only way to judge if something is good or not is by results."

At the time I took this course huge important positive changes were happening to people (graduates) I knew. I mean huge. The friend that always gossiped stopped. My girlfriend who would never assert herself became more confident and got 2 promotions at work. Guys I knew that were burnout weedsmokers went back to school cleaned themselves up and got jobs. I saw some businesses paying to send there workers through and improving overall productivity and making more money.

I had a close friend who had a dream of becoming a pilot. He already had a government safe job that most wouldn't quit. There was risk and sacrifice but he went to school became a pilot and became an instuctor at the school. There were tons of stories like this. I must have gone to 20 of those coffee hour type things. I am a skeptic but i also know skeptics don't make progress. If this thing worked for all my friends I figured I would see what it is for myself. It took me almost 2 years before I decided to do this seminar. I had heard of the $400 being returned to me if I finished the basic 4 day seminar.

Maybe they will do something to me? Brain wash me? All of my friends refused to tell me what was in the seminar. It pissed me off. Even my girlfriend!! I realized after going that everyones experience will be different. That is why it didn't make sense to try and explain it. For me I learned things about myself and others that I haven't seen in other places.

For me I started seeing my father in a different light. We never got along. I know he is different but that is ok. One of my biggest accomplishments from doing PSI is opening up a relationship with my father that I figured was gone. Believe me it is still hard but it is worlds better than what it was. I had not said "I love you to my dad in about 15 years". I remembered feeling vulnerable and worried as I went to visit him after the seminar. I am a man and my father is an old school fire captain. Men don't show feelings type. I told him quickly and there was this huge sigh of relief and "I love you too" .

That was just the start. I had physical goals . I wanted to swim this 2 mile long distance swim. I didn't know how to swim. I did it that year. I never travelled to another country before : I went to Osaka Japan for a month and had the time of my life. I went skydiving; I always wanted to but talked myself out of it.

PSI helped me move forward. One of the concepts I don't see written by those unhappy has to do with risk and effort. I vividly remember "There is no free lunch". I learned to take more responsibility for myself instead of blaming others. i remember graduates always saying "What's next for you?". It isn't easy because each new goal is hard. It is easy to quit. The hardest truth to face is it is "up to me if it is to be". At PSi I learned that if things aren't going right "It is my responsibility to fix it".

I see lots are concerned about how much money is being paid .That is easy. Don't pay if you don't want to go. I went to 4,5, and 7 at the ranch in california. I could go to more but I didn't. Money is needed for every business and for everyone. The red cross needs money. Hospitals need money. Walmart needs money. Your church needs money to run. No one has written down that once you go to the basic seminar you can go to that seminar again for free forever!!! I haven't gone in a few years but I easily reaudited some of the basic seminar for over 10 years!!

I can honestly say I the money and effort spent on those seminars are the best have ever spent . I continue to use those concepts and tools to be happier today. I have met the nicest most generous people .

If you feel this is a cult or some mind brain washing thing I think you are missing the point. I know when I went I saw things differently. I saw a some of people go through the pain of going through a variety of relationship changes. I did too. I ended up separating from my relationship at the time. It was something that had to be done but I let it linger because she was a nice girl. Now we still see each other around our town and we are both happily married and friends.

I have seen some people who also have gotten a divorce. I have seen people get married. I see a lot of adjustment . I think that PSi accellerated my life and others lives.

I believe over 90% who have taken this seminar are happy with it. I also think it is what you put into it.

Taking the Basic made me realize different choices that I never looked at before in my life. I now have chosen to manifest my dreams. After taking the PSI courses, I now have a 10 plus relationship (on a scale of 1-10) with my mother, my sister and the love of my life

Marilyn ~ Basic 2005 (Now divorced from the love of her life)

PSI has made it possible for me to reconnect with the beauty and wonder of human beings and with the endless possibilities that are available to each of us. PSI isn't about selfishly getting what you want but about creating what you want in life by being responsible for your thinking, keeping your word, and synergistically creating a better world.

Becky ~ Basic 2005 (wasted $15,000.00 and divorced her husband)

At the age of 60, I had the Opportunity to 'look at my Life' at the lst Chicago PSI Basic. These last 4 years have been the most meaningful, substantive of my life. Because I have changed my way of 'Thinking', I have changed my way of 'Being'. What I 'treasure' the most is my enriched Relationship with my 2 adult children, both of whom are also Advanced PSI Graduates. Feeling better about 'who I am' has attracted Goodness and Love into my life. Soon to turn 65, I'm sure that I will 'attract' that special man - I know you're out there!

Gail ~ Basic 2002 ( Gail is still looking for that number 10 relationship)

Testimonials ~ What Chicagoans say about the Basic Seminar

I've participated in many PSI Seminars programs, including:

* Los Angeles Basic, February 2001
* PSI 7 Team 344, April 2001
* WLS Class 71, August 2001
* Los Angeles PLD Team 3, July - Nov 2001
* WLS Class 73, February 2002 (coach)
* Los Angeles PLD Team 5, Mar - June 2002 (coach)
* Principia, September 2002
* Los Angeles PLD Team 7, Nov/02 - Feb/03 (coach)

It has been 36 months since I first became involved with PSI Seminars. I have some doubts that I have recovered. I still feel so much anger and hatred towards the people who run that crap fest. It disturbs me to feel so much hatred and anger. I see myself as a loving, giving and compassionate person yet, I just can't forgive them. PSI seminars needs to be stopped. I need to warn people to stay away from them. I believe that they knew what they were doing. I believe they knowingly were manipulating me into a situation that would have been harmful to me. I am thankful that I resisted enough that nothing physical happened. I can only hope that in time I will not have such overwhelming feelings of anger and hatred towards others.

Today I read a post on covert hypnosis......I got so angry as I read it. It was just like I was back there at the ranch watching it happen........The article just broke it down and spelled it out so clearly.

I have to give myself a break. I didn't know then what I know now. I think I will be able to resist in the future if I should be so unfortunate to find myself in a similar situation. I have done a lot of reading to educate myself. I hope I will be able to resist manipulation and influence. If any of the facilitators from PSI showed up in my life today I would not even talk with them. I'd call a cop if I had to.

Most days I feel just fine. I am living a very successful life. No one knows what I feel about my experience except for my therapist, my husband and those in this forum who have read my posts. But the problem is, I am so sensitive to any hint that someone is trying to manipulate me. It's like if someone is trying to influence whether I choose soup or salad, I react inside like they are trying to rape me.... hmmm well I am exaggerating but really I just am like hypersensitive to any kind of manipulation. I find myself listening to what people say and analyzing it. If I hear a hint of NLP that person is in my trash heap of humanity. Not much hope of escape from there.

More than any other thing this forum has helped me to express what happened and how I feel about it. I have been seeing a psychologist since Jan of this year and she has helped me a great deal. My husband has also been an incredible help to me. He has stood by me and supported me completely since I opened up to him and told him what happened.

Congratulations that you had the strength to get out and walk away. I remember how strong the pressure was to stay and participate. I hope that you will acknowledge yourself for having a strong enough spirit to get away from those people. They are very skilled at manipulation and control. I know how determined you must have been.

I attended PSI Seminars Basic, PSI 7, and WLS seminars. I got "enrolled" by some so-called friends. I am still trying to heal my mind and my life from the after effects of these seminars. I left PSI Seminars feeling very unsettled. I knew something wasn't right, but I couldn't seem to focus on what was wrong. I wanted to believe that it had been good for me.

I finally got support from a psychologist and have educated myself on what it is these type of programs do. I've read some books on mind-control, hypnosis and brainwashing. Now I know that is what they do at PSI Seminars.

Please stay away from PSI Seminars. The simplest way I can explain it is that they are using powerful psychological techniques to implant the PSI "Concepts" into your minds. The facilitators are not trained in psychotherapy or even educational techniques. What they are doing is dangerous and can be damaging to many people. The facilitators do not practice ethical responsibility like a psychotherapist would. PSI staff will manipulate and use students to get their own needs met.

PSI staff will say that they are not practicing psychological techniques on people, but that is a lie.

I know plenty of PSI Grads who will proclaim what a great program it is. I've heard it all. Take a closer look at there lives. They aren't any better than you. If you ask questions all you will get is PSI cliches puked back at you. Don't let them get away with vague non answers. Keep asking the questions.

If you are still thinking about taking these seminars you really owe it to yourself to get educated as to what they are really up to. The following sites have a great deal of information that will be helpful. PSI Seminars is a LGAT (Large Group Awareness Training). There are a lot of them out their and they use similar mind-control techniques. Educate yourself.

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/

http://www.rickross.com/

Good luck and take care of yourself