• Report: #339152

Complaint Review: Quicken Loans

  • Submitted: Wed, June 11, 2008
  • Updated: Mon, February 11, 2013

  • Reported By:phoenix Arizona
Quicken Loans
16425 N Pima Rd. Scottsdale, Arizona U.S.A.

Quicken Loans THE TRUTH ABOUT QUICKEN LOANS, DAN GILBERT, BILL EMERSON, JAY FARNER, TIM BIRKMEIER, AND MATT STOFFER. Scottsdale Arizona

*Consumer Comment: To all of the nay-Sayers.

*Consumer Comment: To the Last Post...

*Consumer Comment: Thanks M of Auburn - good post

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: ARE EDUCATED YOURSELF??? QUICKEN LOANS IS THE ONLY JOB I EVER LOVED!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: ARE YOU EDUCATED YOURSELF? QUICKEN IS THE ONLY JOB I EVER LOVED!

*Consumer Comment: Good Point

*Consumer Comment: Good Point

*Consumer Comment: Good Point

*Consumer Comment: Good Point

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Define "failure".......

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Dear Current AZ team member

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Objective Perspective ***

*Consumer Comment: Perspective

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: To R (Jay)

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Gilbert and Capone

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Stay on point buddy! Don't withdraw, talk about content. Quicken Loans= Rip off for thousands of consumers. Quicken Loans = Worst job ever for most

*UPDATE Employee: Capone?!

*Consumer Comment: Will the real Quicken please stand up?

*UPDATE Employee: Oh boy - another lawyer is born...

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Unbelievable but True

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: *** Suggestion for consumers *****

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: said it once, will say it again.... ****SUGGESTION FOR CONSUMERS****

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: The Birkmier by Bobby Allen Poe

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: The Office Not Kept Opened. by Robert Frostie

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Sweet mouthed Truth Hurts....

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Lemmings and Enemas

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Lemmings and Enemas

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Everything is going to be okay "M"

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Thanks Mark Hagenbart ***The One***

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Thanks Mark Hagenbart ***The One***

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Thanks Mark Hagenbart ***The One***

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Name Dropping and LOW CLASS.....

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Viva la revolution! Rome '''er ... Quicken is Burning!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Questionable Practices

*UPDATE Employee: Robert Klein

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: To Disgusted Minority Woman (Dan)

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: First time poster - and this is all so much crap!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Lauging at the truth of all this!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: One of my favorite posts about Quicken from another website

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: First Time Poster - Interesting to read!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: To 2nd Time Around

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: To 2nd Time Around

*Consumer Comment: 2nd Time Around Using Quicken

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Thanks Quicken, I'm better for have knowing you, much better for leaving you!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: People begining to realize Quicken is SMOKE and MIRRORS

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: People begining to realize Quicken is SMOKE and MIRRORS

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: People begining to realize Quicken is SMOKE and MIRRORS

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: People begining to realize Quicken is SMOKE and MIRRORS

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: again, the truth is told

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Responding to a post again...

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: A simple respone to a thoughtful post by Bobby

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Rubbish

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: More voices from AZ need to speak up!!!

*UPDATE Employee: Be very wary....

*UPDATE Employee: Current AZ Team Member

*UPDATE Employee: Current AZ Team Member

*UPDATE Employee: Current AZ Team Member

*UPDATE Employee: Current AZ Team Member

*Consumer Comment: A response from Bobby in Scottsdale, AZ

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Theyre a bunch of uneducated buffoons

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Arizona

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To whom it may concern,

I am a current employee at Quicken Loans. Just to give you a quick backround, I was born and raised in Arizona and have spent most of my life in sales, mostly automotive. I have been at Quicken Loans for just over a year and can honestly say its the worst job I have ever had.

I can honestly say that this is a company that is owned, ran, and managed by crooks. Before I get to our illegal daily practices and crooked ownership, I want to start with some of the common practices of the 2 managers that run the call center that I work at in Arizona. Their names are TIM BIRKMEIER and MATT STOFFER. J

ust to start, these are 2 of the most fowl mouthed managers that I have ever worked for in my entire life. Whether its comments derogatory towards woman or racists jokes aimed towards hispanics and african-american clients, there actions and speech are appalling.

I can't speak for all of the Quicken Loan call centers, but I do know what goes on in this Arizona sweat shop. TIM and MATT work their 150+ loan officers at our site about 60-75 hours per week, and the company does NOT pay overtime, but that labor is mandatory to keep your job. I have copies of schedules that show 10-12 days, 6 days a week. Although they do have the Fair Labor Act poster hung in 3 different spots at the site, I think someone has forgotten to read them thuroughly. But its not as if they hide it, MATT and TIM are quite open about the fact that they want you at work from 8-8 and to work through your lunch hour.

Not only does TIM and MATT screw their employees, but we are also trained to screw our customers. BEWARE, if you are a customer or soon to be a customer of Quicken Loans, please double think your decision. I will be the first to admit that I don't have alot of mortgage experience, but what we are trained to do, I know is wrong. Besides our base salary that we are paid, we are also paid on premium of the loans we sell, (which is how high we can jack up the customers rate, how much extra money in points we can charge them as well, and if we can convince them to take an adjustable mortgage instead of a fixed). So the higher the rate and fees we give the customer, the more we get paid. How are we trained to do that you ask? TIM and MATT put it by saying "find the low-level clients that you can make your money off of". They have never said it in whole site meetings, but in smaller team meetings I have heard both MATT and TIM say things like, "If your dealing with a redneck from the country or a "*bleep*" from the city, you need to make sure their rates and fees are much higher, thats where you make your money. But if its an educated, rich "*bleep*" from the suburbs, we may not be able to make as much money off the loan. (The two bleeps were racial slurs often used at the office at Quicken Loans). Isn't that why the mortgage industry is so screwed up? How can 100 different people with the same loan, same assests, and same credit score, be given 100 different rates and fee structures. Also, on the loans that we do give the borrowers much higher fees and rates and adjustables, MATT and TIM make sure that we don't fill in the race/ethinicity section at the end of the application, so it doesn't look like we are over charging or screwing one race or class of people vs another. Which in fact is exactly what we are trained to do.

Also, Quicken Loans makes money off of what we call our "Good Faith Deposit". It is a non-refundable $500 charge to your credit card that is used to make sure the client is serious about doing business. This is a complete scam. We are trained, even if their is no loan that we can do, the customer doesn't own a house, or they call us up for a loan we don't provide, we take $500, period. Thats where most of the money and profit of the company comes from. I stopped taking deposits shortly after I knew what I was doing, but then was quickly repremanded by TIM and MATT, and my job shortly threatened thereafter if I didn't continue the deposit process. We are trained to lie and promise customers anything to earn there business. We are told to tell the customers that we will do a free loan for them next time they use us, even thought we may be charging them $10,000 to do the loan now. Plus another $10,000 to do the loan the second time, because we can't do free loans. It's all a flat out lie, and a flat out scam!

But despite all this, Quicken Loans was voted the number 2 place to work by Fortune Magazine, in all of the USA...... how? I have to call CNN, which I believe owns Fortune Magazina and find out. Maybe its becasue its owned by Dan Gilbert, and his Michagen State cronies. This is a man that was arrested for illigal gambling and stealing peoples money, but yet he owns the 15th biggest mortgage company in the USA.... Go Figure. Maybe its because the entire upper management of the company consists of Michigen State alumni, and old college buddies. Maybe its becasue they will only hire employees that this would be their first job, and have had no previous employment. It's easier to run a sweat shop when your just out of high school and or college and don't know any better. For all these people know, 75 hours is normal to them.

And last but not least, you probably guessed it. How many jobs do you think TIM and MATT had before joining Quicken Loans? You guessed it, a combined total of NONE. Oh well, next time I hear one of them get of the phone, I always picture them saying "Would you like fries with that mortgage"?

Anonymous
phoenix, Arizona
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 06/11/2008 12:47 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Quicken-Loans/Scottsdale-Arizona-85260/Quicken-Loans-THE-TRUTH-ABOUT-QUICKEN-LOANS-DAN-GILBERT-BILL-EMERSON-JAY-FARNER-TIM-BI-339152. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

To all of the nay-Sayers.

AUTHOR: celticlady - (United States of America)

To all of the nay-Sayers. 

I am one the poor suckers that got hosed by Quicken.  I responded to a radio ad after 3 other refi attempts.  Because of the other attempts I knew where the mines were.  If fact I told David Brooks right up front that he couldnt do the refi and why in the first 5 minutes.

Heres the context:  I have a Tri-Plex that I live in. I am a Vet.

Mr. Brooks promised, over and over that VA had new money available under the new VA Loan Guidelines which included Tri-Plexs.  It was all a BIG FAT LIE. The VA has NEVER had loans for Tri-Plex. Du-Plex - yes.  I was told this by Liberty just a week after I paid my $500 to Quicken. 

Stupid me. I could have called the VA to confirm first.

Since I had already paid, I went with the flow. And of course after 3 months of manipulation, lies, story after story, well yep Oh sorry VA cant do your refi. But wait there is more. We can do it.yada yada yada etc  etc.lie after lie.

Now if you think that was bad.  I told Mr. Brooks that I was scheduled for major surgery.  That this refi either had to be closed before this date, or delayed. Oh yea not a problem.  As I said above. 3 months later he is still dragging his feet, but demanding I produce all these documents- pronto. Then the documents got lost not once but twice! David!!! I have surgery scheduled NEXT WEEK- ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COUNTRY!!I cant do this now.  I told you this!!!  Oh yea..not a problem.  Then the SOB calls me 1 day after the surgery. It hadnt even been 24 hrs.  I told him to go have aeronautical intercourse with a rotating piece of pastry.

WARNING! DO NOT use quicken!
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#2 Consumer Comment

To the Last Post...

AUTHOR: Bman - (United States of America)

"I don't think Quicken is perfect but it appears to me most of the complaints are because (1) people didn't have a realistic understanding of the value of their home" -

I was jammed for a deposit, and my home went up in double its value even with underwater mortgages throughout the country.

"(2) they hadn't done a detailed and complete accounting of all of their provable income and all of their debts," -

This was why I was trying to get this loan in place and was shafted by this company. I have since paid off without any loan all those that were bleeding me dry.

"(3) their credit score wasn't up to snuff, and/or" -

My credit score was fine... went down after QL took a deposit in an account I told the so-called banker that was tapped, yet they made the withdrawal anyway, and threw me under the bus. Heartless cow Abby Wrysch, I will always remember her name...

"(4) they were out of work or had a spotty recent employment history." -

Nope had the same job for 28 years and am a pillar of the community. They have a ardent hater of the company in me, because as a customer they treated me worse than trash.
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#3 Consumer Comment

Thanks M of Auburn - good post

AUTHOR: Tagurit - (USA)

Good advice.   I don't think Quicken is perfect but it appears to me most of the complaints are because (1) people didn't have a realistic understanding of the value of their home (2) they hadn't done a detailed and complete accounting of all of their provable income and all of their debts, (3) their credit score wasn't up to snuff, and/or (4) they were out of work or had a spotty recent employment history.  I've seen all sorts of compliants about property not appraising high enough, high closing costs, not getting approved, etc.   Seems to me that most of these consumer complaints would never have happened if folks had done the homework up front.   Sites like Zillow can be used to get recent comps.   Everyone should know what they're making vs spending and a 25% of your net take home monthly for mortgage+taxes+insurance is a safe ratio.   Anything higher than that and you're probably buying too much house for what you make.  Ditto on the assets.   They want to see savings, other properties or assets that can be liquidated to make mortgage payments in the event you lose your job.   Another good rule of thumb is to have 1 year annual salary in savings.  

Was interesting to read some of the other posts - if I were to believe them - I got low closing costs because I'm in decent financial shape but more importantly very informed on how mortgages work.  Again with all the information available on the internet everyone needs to educate themselves.  In any event, my experience with Quicken is that they were a bit un-organized - seemed underwriting and the loan officers weren't communicating with each other as effectively as they could.   I had to educate a few folks about things like foreclosure tax sales where I picked up a lake lot at a tax foreclosure sale - and that the only proof you own this kind of property is the sherrif's deed.  And, the fact that you don't insure raw land.    In any event I walked away a happy customer.  Loan closed in 30 days for the exact #'s promised and my closing costs were low (lower than anyone else by approx. $70 - hey I shopped around- and I didn't buy any points).  Having 20% equity helped but more important was the fact I had a long steady history of income, assets, and a high credit score (831).  My take is that the educated consumer will do well with Quicken.   Those that don't have a good understanding of real estate and mortgages/finance and those teetering on the edge of financial difficulty looking to refinance to stay above water or obtain a HELOC are not going to be happy with Quicken.
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#4 UPDATE EX-employee responds

ARE EDUCATED YOURSELF??? QUICKEN LOANS IS THE ONLY JOB I EVER LOVED!

AUTHOR: The Jillster - (U.S.A.)

One more thing I forgot to comment on about the Quicken name and not being a part of the true Quicken Book...aka Intuit. Get your facts straight and again do your research. Quicken Loans out perfomed Quicken software side of the Intuit company. You must be publically traded under the portion of your company that makes the most money. That means that since loans were the area performing the greatest then you had to be listed as a financial traded stock. However selling your shares as a Software company demanded more dollar on the trade value and Intuit said as successfully as you are in finance Dan Gilbert our stock holders have decided they want to be traded publically with a higher returns as a software company. Thanks for joining us and doing big things for two years. Please buy your company bank and retain the use of the branded name Quicken along as you see fit.... Please educate yourself and stop looking foolish PLEASE!!!!!
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#5 UPDATE EX-employee responds

ARE YOU EDUCATED YOURSELF? QUICKEN IS THE ONLY JOB I EVER LOVED!

AUTHOR: The Jillster - (U.S.A.)

My name is Jill Mandley, worked my last day on payroll at Quicken was 10/2/02 and Tammy Music in payroll spoke on how all employees leaving and coming remember the day the started and leave percisely.... we do so cause we loved our jobs.

To this day anytime I drop an e-mail on Bill Emerson he gets back to me. I have been out of the company for over 7 years. I was not top of the food chain. I was merely an loan analyst...just a processor on a floor of about 40 more that were just like me. Bill knew my kids by name, he came to my desk at least 3 times a month to make sure the Jillster was on target to hit gaol, set with me and went over my pipe...and gave me props when I hit goal. Jay Farner took a whole afternoon out one day to show me how stocks work so I could make sound investments with my money I was pulling in at Quicken. Due to his time I just a clerical position, long hours and smart decisions my management taught me in two years I put away 50K. In that same two years I ate out everyday, bought what I wanted to buy, drove what I wanted to drive and took NO hits financially to put away that 50K.

In regards for recruiting - Are you CRAZY? They encourage staff to recruit from your friends and family. You get paid for bringing your people in.... Did you forget your Quickenism of EAT YOUR OWN DOG FOOD? if so I guess I will also have to LOW LEVEL you. SO, if you didn't like your work environment well..... they were paying you to hire qualified folks you knew then you could have basically let the company pay you to create the type of atmosphere and folks you wanted around you....I'm just saying....... I hired my boyfriend.....got paid for it....WOW.

I have so many problems with this report..... you should do research before and know your product and your industry before you shoot off your mouth.

Let's get this out of the way first...you headed your B.S listing with adding Dan, Bill and Jay and yet you only ripped Tim and Matt. I barely knew Tim but he worked his way through the ranks. But good PR for stupid BS to put the Dan and Bill's name in the header knowing it might get pulled up in more searches...but I never saw one thing you can say about the TOP TWO of the food chain in the company Dan and Bill.

Education wise - let me help you out..... you company did nothing wrong they were on target with alot you obviously are so unaware of and need education yourself.

Let's address the overtime without compensation. Quicken has always functioned on the premise of you can leave at 8 hours per day or 40 hours per work week. But with volume levels as they are you need to be there longer in a work day...so you can opt for overtime pay or not ask for overtime and get a higher cut in commission. If you do the math at the end of the day, you do better to collect your 40 hours and go for the commission it way exceeds the overtime...the volume is there. Maybe you just weren't producing.....

As for the deposit fee....I hope I don't lose you on this one so I will try to go slow. Your company functioned on a retail level...that mean that you dealt directly with the consumer/borrower and closed the loan under the quicken name but it was sold on the secondary market to the true bank....your Countrywide, Wamu and so forth... We were a conduit between borrower and lender, but we functioned on the level and the same structure as a wholesale shop...basically functioning like we carried the warehouse line. (a warehouse line - that is an allocated amount of money a bank has to lend in an timeframe.) The true warehouse lines were with the true banks the loan would be sold to on the secondary market. So when you ran Rocket through Lakewood your loan parameters were ran through a multitude of banks and the top ones with the best rates, payments and benefits were made available to you to pitch to your borrower. When they said I like loan option 2 then you asked for a deposit to get the ball rolling..... that $500.00 is a fee the true bank charges Quicken to lock up money that your loan amount was equal to. Let me explain it more simple. You need 250k for the loan and the program they selected was product 2 in lakewood but in reality it was Countrywide...so when you get your approval in Lakewood a number is assigned to those loan findings and the computer tells Countrywide this 250k belongs to this number so subtract it out of your available funds on your warehouse line. This lets Countrywide regulate the monies they have to lend cause surprisingly as it may seem they are not just doing biz with Quicken other folks are submitting loans too. Now should that money you locked up never manifest into a loan well BAM!!!! Countrywide could have made it into a loan with another borrower in Quicken or with a borrower at many of the other brokers they work with...so your commitment caused them a lost in income so they revert that back to the broker in an amount of $500.00 So Quicken Loans never benefited a penny.....they took their hit for not producing a loan to the bank. Thanks for misleading 1000's of borrowers. Why we tell borrower's it is for appraisal cost???? Well do you think most borrower's would understand half of what I just typed....???? Do you???? Get my point. Sometimes in a transaction as abstract as a mortgage file the less said the better.... if you have good management or a strong processor they can slow a borrower down and put this fire out if it really blows up...but how often would you need to have this conversation.

As far as this whole deal of a chosen few for the survey of the work place.... you need to find out why you never got your survey. They are sent out to the entire staff and you are hassled if HR doesn't get your survey back. So sorry you fell through the cracks but you should have said something.

I loved the free popcorn, slushies and coffee. I also liked that they paid for my dry cleaning if I left it in the closet and my name attached on the main floor of the Livonia operations and they developed my film and brought in FOR FREE starbucks and breakfast, lunch and dinner everyday for 1.5 years I was there. They had 3 red bull runs a day and a snack cart that went around, paid for my gym and had work out equipment on my floor too, they had a play room for the kids, they gave me $20.00 tip per day I was sitting in my desk after 7:00 pm and Bill Emerson or Patrick McGinnis handed it to me cause they made it clear they were handed it to me and not at home watching Blues Clues with their kids but in the trenches with me too. They stayed in tune with what we needed on the floor to make things happen.

Someone mentioned that D. Hall wasn't there any longer....WOW. I loved David and his little brother. D. Hall worked long hours. I was at one point on his personal team and he was a cool cat and loved when his little goof ball brother did cart wheels in the office, and he took a great loan app and knew his clients. Got anything I needed on a file and anything I needed. I fell short on faxing to his client one day and he asked why, I let him know the fax was jamming and he got me a brand new fax in an hour. We e-mailed one another late at night to see if each other were still in the office he always stayed longer than me and always e-mailed Dan Gilbert the Chairman/Owner of the company to let him know how late I was there and gave me props for my efforts. Brought me lunch often, gave the best d**n Christmas presents, and made arragements to send my whole family to see Bon Jovi just cause he knew I liked them.

I have had Bill Emerson offer to pay out of his own pocket for airfare for my children to go their grandmother's so that I could go on an outting with the company to the Bahamas. Airfare cost were $1200.00. They packed up 1700 employees on private chartered jets and go for 5 days to the Bahamas..... I dare ask you and any potential borrower reading this to comment on how many jobs you had like this.

I plan to cut and paste this to Bill and Dan and I know I will get a response from Bill! Bill once told me: "It only takes one voice." So I am being one voice to say I have never had one bad experience with Quicken. Feel free to contact me.... justprocessing1@aol.com

THE JILLSTER - OH YEAH, BILL EMERSON GAVE ME THAT NICKNAME.

Why am I know longer there...... As much as I loved Quicken, I couldn't take the weather of Michigan. My good bye letter to Dan Gilbert said clearly though that the day he opens doors on a Quicken center in LA I had better be the 1st cat on payroll.
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#6 Consumer Comment

Good Point

AUTHOR: Wow - (U.S.A.)

To the last poster. I could not agree with you more. I did too enjoy my time at QL. My director was great and fair and I also made some lifelong friends there. Every company has their issues and disgruntled current and former employees. I am doing well at my current job and to tell you the truth I attribute alot of that to my time at OL
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#7 Consumer Comment

Good Point

AUTHOR: Wow - (U.S.A.)

To the last poster. I could not agree with you more. I did too enjoy my time at QL. My director was great and fair and I also made some lifelong friends there. Every company has their issues and disgruntled current and former employees. I am doing well at my current job and to tell you the truth I attribute alot of that to my time at OL
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#8 Consumer Comment

Good Point

AUTHOR: Wow - (U.S.A.)

To the last poster. I could not agree with you more. I did too enjoy my time at QL. My director was great and fair and I also made some lifelong friends there. Every company has their issues and disgruntled current and former employees. I am doing well at my current job and to tell you the truth I attribute alot of that to my time at OL
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#9 Consumer Comment

Good Point

AUTHOR: Wow - (U.S.A.)

To the last poster. I could not agree with you more. I did too enjoy my time at QL. My director was great and fair and I also made some lifelong friends there. Every company has their issues and disgruntled current and former employees. I am doing well at my current job and to tell you the truth I attribute alot of that to my time at OL
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#10 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Define "failure".......

AUTHOR: J - (U.S.A.)

I've been watching this board for the past year. I find it both entertaining and informative. I worked at QL for more then 4 years until I left over a year ago. I will tell you this.... I am not a failure at what I did at QL.

I was a senior and executive banker during my time at QL. I did go to numerous front page dinners. I earned coins. I went to Miami, the cruise and Puerto Rico.

My W2 did say over 100k. I was able to purchase a home with the money I earned at QL.

I enjoyed my time with QL. I never saw drug use as people have said on this site. If there is... there is. QL doesn't drug test. Let people do what they want as long as it physically or mentally does not affect you. When it does, then the issue needs to be brought up. We are adults.

The reasons I left...... the amount of hours for the pay I was earning. The market turned sour. Loans were definately harder to get. I have a family. I can't dedicate 50-60 hours a week to only have a base of 28k and be making maybe 2k a month in comission. I needed to think of my family before QL.

This job does give you great sales training. I don't care what the lawsuit says.... we are not consultants. We are in sales. That's why we have a Sales Process, not a consulting process. We have sales training, not consulting training.

This job is perfect for kids out of college, who are single, have little debt, who do not have the family responsibilities and who want to get into a good sales experience.

What I wish QL would do, is not frown upon time off. Leaving at 6:30, or things like that. We do get burned out and need some time to get away. It would actually help people perform better. The medical benefits were one of the best that QL had when I was there.

Anyways. I left on my own terns. I was never on letter, I was never threatened. I had a good relationship with Jay, my RVP and my SD. I needed to think about my family.

I don't miss the job, I miss the people I worked with.

So just because I left QL or someone else did, doesn't mean they were a failure, it means they needed to think about something other then QL in their life.

BTW.... I have a 40k salary, I make up to 10% in commission, and I only have to work 40 hours. Period. I am very happy.
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#11 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Dear Current AZ team member

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

You can't get the taste of Dan out of your mouth by rinsing with the company kool-aid.
Current AZ Team Member
I currently work in the Quicken Loans Arizona office and have been with the company for 4 years. My experience has been one of working with the most ethical, positive people and company I have ever seen. In an industry where companies are closing their doors due to fraud, poor client service, etc., we have maintained our integrity and have no tolerance for team members who commit fraud or 'bait and switch' clients. This kind of stuff posted from bankers who failed at the company sickens me; I have too much gratitude and pride for this company to not post a response.
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#12 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Objective Perspective ***

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Quoting above post by Ross,
"I can say without reservation that Quicken Loans is a terribly run company that should be shut down. They routinely violate Reg Z and high cost loan regulations."

"I never made the move to Quicken based on my friend's horror stories of 70 hour work weeks and $900 paychecks. You people are all seriously crazy for working there and so was he/she. Life is too short to work for a financial charlatan like Dan Gilbert in a preschool like setting with pretty colors and 'Gremloans.' I can't wait for the day that LeBron James signs with a Greek team or a real NBA team and Gilbert is forced to sell the Cavs."
____________________

Excellent post by Ross. The horror stories are true.

Ross, you may in someway believe that I am all upset and still hurt by Quicken.

Nope, not really. But I did have friends that I watched suffer for a year while the company tore apart everything sacred to them (families, savings, morals, etc.).

I watched a guy lose 50k in lost wages and burn through savings all because he believed the lies the company fed him. I watched marraiges suffer and end. I watched people declare bankruptcy. I watched people not be able to fill their gas tanks while working 70 hours per week in America. I watched people turn off AC in the summer and sweat while sleeping because they couldn't afford electricity. All while the Quicken was laughing on its way to the bank. What they did to me was far less than to my friends. That is criminal. The labor standards are absolute criminal while the company is getting rich.

So why would I spend 20 min a week on this website occassionally bashing the company that takes advantage of SO many? Either because I myself have not "MOVED ON" as you say OR... maybe, just maybe... that they few out there that were not aware of (and I will use your own words here)

1. 70 hours work weeks
2. 900$ paychecks
3. The charlatan Dan Gilbert
4. Quicken being a terribly run company.

I know for a fact that me and all my friends that worked there were not aware of this. I know the people that experienced what I listed above would have given ten of thousands to know what we all now know.

My job is much alike morpheus in the Matrix. I go around trying to give sight to the blind.
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#13 Consumer Comment

Perspective

AUTHOR: Ross - (U.S.A.)

Hey everyone,
Knock it off already. I was a mortgage professional who had a very good friend that worked at Quicken and was recruited by them myself. I can say without reservation that Quicken Loans is a terribly run company that should be shut down. They routinely violate Reg Z and high cost loan regulations. Whoever you are Robert(I'm sure I could find out all I need to know about you) just give it up already. You seem to be very skilled at using the thesaurus function on MS Word and towing the company line, but little else.

For those of you who come here to bash your current/former employer, it's time to move on. If you still work there, you are very silly to be posting on this website unless you don't value your professional reputation. "It's time to take the roast out of the oven," or whatever dumb Quicken catch phrase you want to use mockingly.

I never made the move to Quicken based on my friend's horror stories of 70 hour work weeks and $900 paychecks. You people are all seriously crazy for working there and so was he/she. Life is too short to work for a financial charlatan like Dan Gilbert in a preschool like setting with pretty colors and "Gremloans." I can't wait for the day that LeBron James signs with a Greek team or a real NBA team and Gilbert is forced to sell the Cavs.

I have moved on to a very reputable company in the Phoenix area that is out of the mortgage industry. What a breath of fresh air it is. I know the job market is tough, but it's worth the struggle to get out of lending for a while. It's a losing battle right now and each day seems to be worse that the last. Sure I'm not being promised a 6 figure income, but I never should have been in the first place for shuffling a few papers around and hitting a lock button on residential mortgage loans. After all, it still doesn't matter if you have a criminal record in AZ, you too can "do loans!" Get a clue all of you and move on. And Robert, I hope you enjoy being such a huge v-word. I am seriously laughing as I read your posts. Good luck buddy.

God Bless you Quickenites, I swear there is a better path out there. Now go find it!
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#14 UPDATE EX-employee responds

To R (Jay)

AUTHOR: Oj Simpson - (U.S.A.)

Glad to see that you are still reading this site. How is Imus doing? Your dear friend.

Warning to all: R is not being truthful at all. Jay, you really need to give it up. Jay has made over a million bucks for being the company cheerleader - he's help build the slave platform that runs the salesforce. I hope you and Imus die in HELL. Your days is up pal soon.

Look at all the other past posting from R. He's been defending QL for two years on this site, so that should tell everyone of just how important this site is to them.

Go back to doing your POWER MOVE (Snort another line of the white stuff)

Also, you still never got a DIME from me. LOL!
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#15 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Gilbert and Capone

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

There are more similarities between the two than you may think. First off, Gilbert's college gambling ring was shut down when someone who owed him money went to authorities after being physically threatened.
Don't forget the fact that Gilbert let's drug addicts do all his dirty work, working 60-80 hours for peanuts, and make him rich. Similar to the mob.
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#16 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Stay on point buddy! Don't withdraw, talk about content. Quicken Loans= Rip off for thousands of consumers. Quicken Loans = Worst job ever for most

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

I enjoyed your post for many reasons.

1. Withdraw from any objective conversation on any of these topics:
a. The thousands of complaints online about the company
b. The overtime lawsuits that are being settled due to blatant abuse of Fair Labor Laws to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
c. The abuse of most of the employees and clients which can be documented on various websites listed above
d. The hundreds of employees who call it the worst job they've ever had

The funny thing is, I have documented dozens of websites and quotes from people that have had these experiences and you and the other brainwashed cult members come on here and say a few words then disappear.

WHY?

why would you withdraw (honor? class? nope). You have to withdraw because deep down inside you don't want to read the THOUSANDS of stories of people/employees who have been CHEATED by this company. Clients, employees, etc. Because, while your mind can justify that I am just some resentful vengeful guy, it can't be possible that thousand of normal good consumers/employees could be VICTIMS of Quicken.

I still sell mortgages, when I'm competing against quicken I just tell people to visit this site and then become afraid and won't talk to quicken anymore.

I understand I am just one person, for me to only put my experience isn't convincing. But when I can list hundreds of others that agree with everything I write, then it is persuasive.

2. Your decision to only talk about MY character instead of the talking points. There is no possible way to argue against the THOUSANDS that have had AWFUL experiences with Quicken Loans, you instead try to attack the character of the author.

Fine by me. This is something that I had to do for 1 month (I've used maybe a collective 3-4 hours in the past month posting on this site) and I believe it is time well spent. People will read these posts months and years to go even though my time here is coming to an end.

It is funny you call me a pig yet the only thing I do is:
1. List my awful experience as an employee
2. Compile thousands of good regular consumers experiences being ripped off
3. List hundreds of employees experiences with this company sucking the life out of them who call it the WORST place they've worked

Here is Kristine's words, a nice young lady from the midwest. While she isn't as "pompous" (to borrow your words) as I am, or a "pig" like me, read her story and comment. Comment about any topics! please! or disappear and never be heard again because there is nothing you can say against all the real life stories.

(BELOW IS A QUOTE FROM KRISTINE, TAKEN OFF THE FORTUNE WEBSITE THAT LISTED QUICKEN #2 EMPLOYER IN AMERICA, SHE IS ONE OF THOUSANDS, THE LINK CAN BE FOUND A FEW POSTS ABOVE)
________________________________________________________________________
Though the statistics boasted by many of these companies seem impressive, my personal experience with Quicken Loans employment is far from positive. True, on the outside, Quicken seems like an incredible company to work for with a heavy emphasis on team development and personal goal-setting, an extensive, hefty monetary rewards program and numerous social gatherings promoted throughout the year. Unfortunately, the five weeks of training that new employees experience is more of a cult initiation than job training. What your statistics do not show is that most of the employees in the company are working at least 65-70 hours a week, regardless of family or personal emergencies, in order to make the sales benchmarks and commission checks that would allow them to even dream of reaching the average mortgage banker salary posted in your statistics. Those that do not reach their goals are 'encouraged' to work more hours 'for their team' and are put 'on the letter,' a letter which often sets an unrealistic goal for the employees to meet within a month or they are terminated. In this economy (in the state of Michigan), most people cannot afford that fate, which pushes these employees to work even more hours. To further encourage their workers, Quicken offers monetary and social rewards, including all-expenses paid vacations, parties, sporting events and dinners. Despite the company's awe-inspiring celebration in Cleveland two years ago, many of these events do not encourage, and some do not even allow, for spousal participation. Rather, these events often look more like scenes from undergraduate nightclubs or fraternity parties than something I would expect from the number two company on the Fortune 100 list.

I truly wonder if your survey could be expanded to include more questions regarding the non-work-related lives of the employees at these companies. Personally, I know of dozens of marriages, including my own, that ended in large part because of the labor practices and extracurricular activities both explicitly and implicitly encouraged at Quicken Loans. I would really hope that the companies on these lists not only encouraged their employees to set high personal, career-related goals but that they also supported their employees, especially the leaders that set a tone and example for their workforce, in maintaining lives that are both emotionally and physically healthy and ethical outside of the office.

Posted By Kristine, Bloomfield Hills, Michigan : January 23, 2008 1:40 pm
-----------------------------------------END OF KRISTINE'S POST-----------------


(BACK TO ME)
Why do I do this? Why did I take a few hours out of my month? So that people will see what is really going on. The internet is beautiful.

When I first started doing this, I would search "quicken loans" on google, rip off report would be 8 or 10 searches down. Now it consistently shows up in the top 3. Google uses algorithms to list the most popular searches in the highest ranking. So the word is spreading, buddy.

As someone once said, "Don't talk to the brainwashed, they will not talk about any of the talking points and disappear into the night"

If you reply, please talk about any of these things (the content), don't waste time talking about ME, no one wants to talk about ME they want to know how this affects THEM, stay on point... they want to know if this company will rip THEM off and how it will affect THEIR lives if they work for that company which is a sack of sh*t.

TALKING POINTS: (Can you counter-argue any of these?)
_________
a. The thousands of complaints online about the company from good consumers
b. The overtime lawsuits that are being settled due to blatant abuse of Fair Labor Laws to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
c. The abuse of most of the employees and clients which can be documented on various websites listed above
d. The hundreds of employees who call it the worst job they've ever had
e. Kristine's story, who believes hers and dozens of other marriages failed largely because of Quicken's practices,or any of the other thousands of poor employment experiences.

This will likely be one of my last posts also, I will only come back if some brainwashed cult member comes in trying to disprove any of these things, which is unlikely. People need to see Quicken as it really is so they can objectively decide for themselves if they should work for or do business with such a company.
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#17 UPDATE Employee

Capone?!

AUTHOR: R - (U.S.A.)

I have to admit, the comedic value of this site is pretty good.

You begin your intellectually empty arguments by comparing Gilbert to Capone - and then you immediately attempt to take the readers through a mini-course in logic and debate. That's a like a person pompously lecturing others on the merits of healthy living while smoking a cigarette. You're embarrassing yourself my man...

This will be my final post. As someone once said, "Never wrestle with a pig, because you will both get dirty, but the pig enjoys it." The reality is that, based on your voluminous number of posts - you, and many who huddle together on these sites, aren't interested in simply sharing your points of view. No - you've crossed the line into the realm of the obsessed.

You couldn't pick it up last time, so I doubt you'll be able to understand it this time, but my point wasn't that people who leave Quicken are bad people or losers. I know many folks who have left who are terrific people who have gone on to great success in different endeavors.

No - my point was that those who continue to shout from the shadows as they attempt to paint good people with ugly brushes are life's losers. We all know them. They live in life's rear view mirror. They don't move forward. They are inspired by anger and resentment - not by optimism and hope.

The irony is that by even responding to your sad rants, I play into your illusion that you matter or that you are having an effect. The reality is that you aren't. You are just a sad little man banging away at a computer.

The rest of the world continues to move forward every day. Join in - or get left behind.
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#18 Consumer Comment

Will the real Quicken please stand up?

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Wow.

It's exciting to see a logical coherent response come from the Quicken camp. This is truly a rare occurrence. I would like to address a few of your contentions.

Dan Gilbert contributes to society in various efforts and THEREFORE runs a legitimate good company.

If you research Al Capone, he was actually one of the greatest mobster's off all time that constantly contributed to the poor. He set up soup kitchens and various charities for the poor people of Chicago. Does this mean the business that Al Capone ran was one that helped society?

The only proper conclusion to draw is that he was a rich guy and gave money to the poor. Dan Gilbert's business is a sack of sh*t.

The firm you currently work for: -Takes advantage of nearly 4000 citizens (I can't say all 4000 because there are probably 100 in there that are overpaid and given hand outs). -Commits to taking the firm to Detroit because they can get people to work 70 hours for peanuts as long as they are given popcorn and slushies. (the Arizona site won't last at a 90k month lease) -It one of the most crooked companies in the industry The goal of people who bash this company appears to be in two parts. First off, to save others from either working or doing business with a company that consistently takes advantage of their workforce and clientele. And secondly, to watch the company burn. To watch the company that has destroyed lives just light up in flames and begin to suffer. You are right that there is vengeance involved.

You use a slippery slope of an argument in stating… “If a person says bad things about Quicken, they most obviously lash out at their schools, families, etc…” Could it be possible that the droves to come criticize this company JUST hate the company and what it stands for?

Classic bad arguments.

Dan does good things, his company must be good.

People say bad things about Quicken, they are losers. Dan gave X, Y, Z… so he is a good guy.

TRUTH / FACTS… 1. Quicken was involved in multiple lawsuits for illegally NOT paying their employees for hours worked. (Quicken conceded this and paid a large settlement to avoid the court case) 2. Quicken consistently takes advantage of consumers. I could list over 200 unresolved legitimate disputes within 30 minutes of research online 3. Quicken fired Ted Jastrow the slushie guy and put him on the streets 4. Quicken sucks (no extrapolation needed for this one) 5. Quicken takes care of 5% of their workforce and the rest are worked/paid like slaves 6. Quicken is evil (again, no need to flesh this idea out)

MOST COMMON RESPONSES FROM EMPLOYEES THAT MAKE NO SENSE: 1. If someone left Quicken they were bad at their job or had a character flaw 2. If someone says bad things about Quicken they are bad people 3. Of the thousands of bad experiences about Quicken online, all these people are uneducated bad people

REALITY 1. If someone left Quicken they realize that Quicken sucks 2. People who say bad things about Quicken realize it is a BAD company 3. The thousands who have had bad experiences at Quicken had BAD EXPERIENCES and they are GOOD PEOPLE.

END OF POST ---- I figured I would reference a few of my old posts at this time----------------------------

Here are other websites where many have had similar experiences.

References that Quicken sucks: (*to note: the negative posts typically outnumber positive 5 to 1)

(((Redacted)))

(((Redacted)))

(((Redacted)))

(on (((Redacted))), you have to understand that IF you don't mind paying extra points and fees you will have an excellent experience, the service is great if you don't mind paying for it)

(((Redacted)))

(((Redacted)))

(((Redacted)))

(((Redacted)))

Another reference from a previous post, these are people from Fortune's website commenting on Quicken being the #2 employer in America:

Instead of putting down my own thoughts and ideas on this, I have instead pulled off quotes right off of FORTUNE's own website. Thats right, from the site that listed them #2. Here is the link so you can fact check me:

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/01/21/100-best-companies-to-work-for/#comment-4430

now on to some of the quotes:

Quicken Loans at #2? Are you serious? New employees are routinely worked to death pitching loans (60 hrs. per week is about the minimum, and any attempts to leave earlier (work a 9 hour day) are viewed with contempt and disgust by their superiors. Any 'troublemakers' within the company will not be on any promotion lists during their time with the company. Posted By Tom- Cleveland, OH : June 6, 2008 6:10 pm -------------------------------------- Quicken number 2? The bribes need to stop, that is a terrible place to work. Posted By Chek, Midland, MI : June 3, 2008 10:37 pm -------------------------------------- Quicken Loans has an unusually attrition rate in its most common job position, 'mortgage banker'. It has had this high attrition rate for the last several years it has been included in the top 100. This does not seem to be mentioned or included as part of the rankings calculation. Is the high attrition an industry standard or unique to Quicken Loans. How is a company with high turn over a great place to work??? Posted By Michael, Plymouth, Mi : February 23, 2008 1:22 pm -------------------------------------- Are you aware that Quicken Loans has laid off 1000 people in the last few months without warning??? Please do more research before you rank them #2!!!!!!!! Posted By Anonymous : February 19, 2008 3:22 pm ---------------------------------------- Did anyone think to check out the online blogs regarding Quicken Loans? Check out ripoffreport.com and you will see tons of info from disgruntled employees. Posted By Tim, Olathe Kansas : February 6, 2008 4:49 pm ---------------------------------------- Though the statistics boasted by many of these companies seem impressive, my personal experience with Quicken Loans employment is far from positive. True, on the outside, Quicken seems like an incredible company to work for with a heavy emphasis on team development and personal goal-setting, an extensive, hefty monetary rewards program and numerous social gatherings promoted throughout the year. Unfortunately, the five weeks of training that new employees experience is more of a cult initiation than job training. What your statistics do not show is that most of the employees in the company are working at least 65-70 hours a week, regardless of family or personal emergencies, in order to make the sales benchmarks and commission checks that would allow them to even dream of reaching the average mortgage banker salary posted in your statistics. Those that do not reach their goals are 'encouraged' to work more hours 'for their team' and are put 'on the letter,' a letter which often sets an unrealistic goal for the employees to meet within a month or they are terminated. In this economy (in the state of Michigan), most people cannot afford that fate, which pushes these employees to work even more hours. To further encourage their workers, Quicken offers monetary and social rewards, including all-expenses paid vacations, parties, sporting events and dinners. Despite the company's awe-inspiring celebration in Cleveland two years ago, many of these events do not encourage, and some do not even allow, for spousal participation. Rather, these events often look more like scenes from undergraduate nightclubs or fraternity parties than something I would expect from the number two company on the Fortune 100 list.

I truly wonder if your survey could be expanded to include more questions regarding the non-work-related lives of the employees at these companies. Personally, I know of dozens of marriages, including my own, that ended in large part because of the labor practices and extracurricular activities both explicitly and implicitly encouraged at Quicken Loans. I would really hope that the companies on these lists not only encouraged their employees to set high personal, career-related goals but that they also supported their employees, especially the leaders that set a tone and example for their workforce, in maintaining lives that are both emotionally and physically healthy and ethical outside of the office.

Posted By Kristine, Bloomfield Hills, Michigan : January 23, 2008 1:40 pm ----------------------------------------- END POST


 CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
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#19 UPDATE Employee

Oh boy - another lawyer is born...

AUTHOR: R - (U.S.A.)

To the newly minted attorney:

While admiring your supercilious arrogance as you attempted to pronounce yourself superior to those Neandertals you worked with at Quicken, I couldn't help but notice that you haven't yet quite mastered the art of basic paragraph structure. Maybe you could dust off one of your 6th grade English books and review the chapter that states, "Start a new paragraph when you start a new thought."

Also, congratulations on your new budding legal career. I hope the firm you end up working for:

- Grows to one of the largest employers in your area - employing 4,000 citizens.
- Has a founder that gives generously to many philanthropic causes
- Starts, and fully funds, an entrepreneurial school for ambitious folks in the city of Detroit.
- Commits to taking your firm into Detroit in an attempt to be a pioneer in the revitalization of a desperately challenged community.
- Makes it into the top 10 of the Fortune Best Places to Work year after year.
- Becomes know as one of, if not the most, innovative firms in your industry.

The sad reality about life's losers who constantly use this site to harangue and deceive, is that their goal of their constant and pathetic postings isn't to somehow enlighten others about Quicken Loans. No, the life's losers goal is to extract vengeance.

But, like any other quality company on this site (feel free to type in ANY company's name to read a steady stream of breathless vitriol), the goal of the posters isn't truth - it's to anonymously sucker punch the innocent.

Life's losers are just that. Failures. One failure after another. And, rather than take the long, hard look in the mirror to see the truth behind the failings - they lash out at their schools, their families, their past relationships, and yes, their past employers. It couldn't be that they are the cause of their own short comings - could it be? No. It must be the fault of others.

Anyway - good luck counselor. I think in time you'll come to realize that a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch. A sterling 25 year reputation and prominence in the industry and the community define Quicken Loans - not your dealings with a tiny majority of the 4,000 plus people who work hard day after day to build something meaningful.
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#20 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Unbelievable but True

AUTHOR: Lexis Lady - (U.S.A.)

I've only browsed this site a few times in the past solely for entertainment. I, however, decided that I am morally obligated to corroborate the truths being told in this thread so I registered today. I of course am not shocked by those on here who are antithetic to truthfulness, they are representative Quicken Loans culture. First, I'll save you liars and bullys some time and preempt your attacks. I am not some displaced, resentful ex-employee seeking revenge on the company. I do not regret one minute I spent working at Quicken Loans. My experience there was absolutely invaluable; I learned to never sacrifice my standards or morals for an easy buck. I voluntarily resigned three years ago after working there for two years without ever being placed on any performance probation. I left to attend law school, desperately seeking to reacquaint myself with erect standing human beings and submerge myself in a pool of intellect after suffering from the drought at Quicken. I graduated this past May, c*m Laude I might add, and completed the bar exam last week. I already have an offer of employment at the 5th largest firm in the state. So please believe me when I say, I am happier than ever and have I have no reason to unfairly disparage Quicken Loans. Now, with all of that out of the way, the negative things being posted here about Quicken are completely true. During the 1st week of training, I was taught all about the "Ism's"; Quicken's business principles. The most troublesome one was "Drink the Koolaid". Can you believe that? Yes, the infamous words from notorious cult leader and mass murderer Jim Jones. The trainers told us that whenever we are in doubt about a process or the job, don't overthink it, just give in and "Drink the Koolaid". Quicken Loans was a notorious predatory lender when I was there. Ironically, they provided literature that contained a list of cautionary practices indicative that a company might be a predatory lender, and Quicken engaged in each of the practices. The Good Faith deposit was refundable but only in theory. We were told to hurry and order the appraisal as fast as possible so that if the client wanted to back out we could use the "already spent" deposit as leverage. The amount fluctuated based on how much "green bar" (premium) a banker wanted. Rates also fluctuated based on the same principle. The goal was to give clients on average a rate anywhere from .125 of a point to a full point or more above the market. Quicken loans really got greedy right before I left and started the "Fresh Start" team, which I hear no longer exists. This team was comprised of the sleeziest, most immoral bankers on Earth whose collective goal was to use subprime mortgages to prey on disadvantaged people's desperation. The company said that the prime selling point to this demographic is that for many of them a refinance was their last shot to keep their homes or prevent filing bankruptcy and when selling to them, bankers should deter them from focusing on the rates but instead on the payment or how much debt would be paid off. We were instructed to lie to clients about our "loan-tracker" system (a myth) which would update them whenever it would be advantageous for them to refinance for little to no costs. This is a complete lie. Your closing and refinance costs are not based on whether you're a return client, they're related to your borrower qualifications and the market. That's it. I won't even get into the personal behaviors of the employees mentioned below, i.e., the cursing and other detestable behaviors, I witnessed them with my own eyes, they're true. Quicken uses a well-established method of industrial brainwashing in conforming its employees to commit acts they wouldn't other wise commit, that's why you hear some employees acting as if their mothers are being attacked. This company is not designed for educated, logical, and intellectual people that are not accustomed to a pact mentality. Just read their posts, their elementary grammatical skills and child-like reasoning evidences the fact that Quicken employs android like clones in order to avoid any questioning of its not only unethical but illegal practices.
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#21 UPDATE EX-employee responds

*** Suggestion for consumers *****

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

1. Do NOT do business with Quicken

2. Do NOT get ripped off by Quicken

3. Be afraid of Quicken robbing you blind

4. Quicken sucks really bad
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#22 UPDATE EX-employee responds

said it once, will say it again.... ****SUGGESTION FOR CONSUMERS****

AUTHOR: M - (U.S.A.)

I worked for QL for 5 years, and I saw it all. I no longer work there, I can give you some quick tips on how to make your loan go through as planned and how not to have issues.

I think that letters to the Attorney General, the BBB etc are likely a waste of your time (i will get into this in part 2 in further detail)

1. When you apply for a mortgage at Quicken (or anywhere else) it is really important to have accurate information to give to the loan officer. Let me explain what I mean by accurate because i fear that most consumers definition of accurate and the actual definition are not the same

INCOME- When they ask you how much you make please give your salary or hourly wage, don't include BONOUS, OVERTIME, SELF EMPLOYMENT, or COMISSIONS. When they ask you how many hours you work be specific with that as well. IF you need Bonus, Overtime, Self Employment, or Commissions to qualify your banker WILL need TAX RETURNS all pages, all schedules (for self employed they will need business returns too!!!) OK now I know we all think we know how to read a tax return but the average person doesn't know how to do in the way an underwriter does. Mortgage companies tally up all of the income and then subtract ALL expenses. This means if you write off a home office, a rental property, mortgage payments on a rental property etc you are likely screwed. Sorry kiddies, but liars are a thing of the past, as they should be and mortgage companies will only give you credit for the income you show to the government.

ALSO if you are a part time employee, they will use a 2 year average of your income. IF you have less then 2 on the job sorry it doesn't count. Part time is anything under 36hours/week.

If you are making less this year then last, sorry Charlie you can't use your bonus, over time, commissions, or second job to qualify.

ASSETS give the banker asset info, exactly how much is in your checking TODAY, savings TODAY, retirement TODAY, etc. If you cant cash it out, it doesn't count. SORRY that's just how it is.

YOUR PROPERTY In light of the recent market, ALMOST all of our homes are worth less then they were last year. SORRY the mortgage company wants your appraisal to come in high, if it doesn't they are just as mad as you are because they get paid for closing loans. Check your neighborhood, see what has sold, remember that Granite countertops DO NOT improve your appraisal, neither dose a finished basement, new hardwood floors etc. APPRAISERS don't care about upgrades. Sorry they just don't. So be cautious when you estimate your value.

YOUR CREDIT if you have rough credit, be prepared for A LOT of work. It's tough for <720 scores to get a loan today, not to say you can't but it is HARD!!!

FINALLY read your DOCUMENTS, is your income correct (that means base should be separate from all other income types defined about) are your assets accurate? What about the value are they what you said they are, if not DON'T sign!!! This is a sure sign that the banker is pushing things in hopes to push your loan through the system. Get them corrected before you sign. THIS IS YOUR ONLY hope to fight for a returned deposit.

IS YOUR RATE LOCKED. IF not don't sign, don't let a banker talk you into floating TRUST ME it isn't worth the .125 you could gain if they go down, because you will loose!!!

OK so you did all this and you want your deposit back? GOOD FOR YOU!! Follow these steps, it will improve your chances.

1.send an e-mail to your banker, Dan Gilbert, William Emerson, Jay Farner and anyone else you have spoken to thought the process, as well as help@quickenloans.com Put the afore mentioned people in the To; line and anyone else in the CC line in your e-mail box. (everyone at quicken has the same e-mail format their name @quickenloans.com use these peoples names first and last and add @quickenloans.com to the end.)
2.Make sure your e-mail only contains FACTS, don't demand things, don't be emotional, don't make threats. REMEMBER it is a lot like the playground people will play with the nice kids and pick on the mean ones. Use phrases like I would appreciate it if my calls were reviewed, I FEEL that I gave banker X accurate information upfront, and was told I would be approved.
3.USE EXACT DATES if at all possible.
4.report ANY unreturned phone calls (this is cause for termination)

So what happens when you send something to the BBB and atty general? It is just a recorded complaint that's all, they won't sue quicken, quicken gets a rebuttal and I promise their lawyer is bigger then your lawyer so it likely isn't worth the trouble and the 42 cent stamp.

I hope this was helpful, ALSO I would recommend ONLY working with senior mortgage bankers, executive mortgage bankers, and President's club mortgage bankers, if your banker dose not have this title ask for someone who dose and then ONLY communicate with the new banker, if the old banker calls you again tell them that you WILL NOT WORK WITH THEM because they are inexperienced.

So those are my thoughts not yours, is the same to the PENNY (income assets value etc) and you locked your loan. If this is the case yes you could contact an atty and sue.

Quicken is an ok company who generally has a very fast closing time and reasonable rates, some of the best bankers in the country work there. ALSO SOME OF THE WORST. If you follow my tips your process should be smooth. THANKS!

BEST OF LUCK!
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#23 UPDATE EX-employee responds

The Birkmier by Bobby Allen Poe

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

*reprint*

The Birkmier by Bobby Allen Poe

Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered weak and weary,
Over many a job offers and curious companies of forgotten lore,
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
Tis' the slugger of 1997, someone gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
''Tis some visitor,' I muttered, 'tapping at my chamber door -
Only this, and nothing more.'

Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December,
And oh the excitement, a dying banker wrought its ghost upon the floor.
Eagerly I wished the morrow; - vainly I had sought to borrow
From my momma just a dolla to avoid the sorrow - sorrow because I just became poor-
For the rare and radiant burden I carry, that made the angels call me poor-
Nameless here for evermore.

And the silken sad uncertain rustling of each ISM mentioned,
Thrilled me - filled me with fantastic terrors never felt before;
So that now, to still the beating of my heart, I stood repeating
''Tis some visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door -
Some late visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door; -
This it is, and nothing more,'

Presently my workday grew longer; All this toil made me less stronger,
'Sir,' said I, 'or Madam, truly your forgiveness I implore;
But the fact is I was napping, and so gently you came rapping,
And so faintly you came tapping, tapping at my chamber door,
That I scarce was sure I heard you' - here I opened wide the door; -
A bit more than minimum wages at Quicken, and nothing more.

Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing,
Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before
But the silence was unbroken, and the darkness gave no token,
And the only word there spoken was the whispered word, 'Poor!'
This I whispered, and an echo murmured back the word, 'Poor!'
Merely this and nothing more.

Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and flutter,
In there stepped a stately Birkmier of the saintly days of yore.
Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed he;
But, with mien of lord or lady, balding outside my chamber door -
Perched with a suitcase full of BS just outside my chamber door -
Perched, and sat, and nothing more.

Then this balding Birk' beguiling my happy fancy into frowning,
By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance he wore,
'Though thy head be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, 'art sure no Payer.
Ghastly grim and ancient Birkmier wandering from the nightly shore -
Tell me can I be paid more than $7 per hour, thy lordly name is on Quicken's door!'
Quoth the Birkmier, 'Nevermore.'

Much I marvelled this ungainly fowl to hear discourse so plainly,
Though his answer little meaning - little relevancy bore;
For we cannot help agreeing that no living human being
Ever yet was blessed with deception as the Birk' above his chamber door -
Birkmier or beast with the shaven head outside my chamber door,
With such name as 'Nevermore.'

But the Birkmier, sitting lonely in the corner office, spoke only,
That one word, as if his soul in that one word he did outpour.
Nothing further then he uttered - never a dollar could he fluttered -
Till I scarcely more than muttered 'Other friends have flown before -
On the morrow he will pay me?, and my bank account will have money more.'
Then the Birkmier said, 'Nevermore.'

Then, methought, the air grew denser, perfumed from an unseen censer
Swung by Ted Jastrow whose foot-falls tinkled on the popcorn'ed floor.
'Wretch,' I cried, 'thy God hath lent thee - by these angels he has sent thee
Respite - respite and nepenthe from thy memories of being Poor!
Quaff, oh quaff this $6 per hour, and at least pay me this or maybe more!?'
Quoth the Birkmier, 'Nevermore.'

'Devil!' said I, 'thing of evil! - reaper still, if Birk' or devil! -
Whether tempter sent, or whether tempest tossed thee here ashore,
Desolate yet all undaunted, on this building off the 101 -
On this home by horror haunted - tell me truly, I implore -
Is there - is there an overtime lawsuit? - tell me - tell me, I implore!'
Quoth the Birkmier, 'Nevermore.'

'Reaper!' said I, 'thing of evil! - devil still, if Birk' or devil!
By that Heaven that bends above us - by that God we both adore -
Tell this soul with sorrow laden if, within the distant Fannie or Freddie,
At first for 7 and at second for 6 per hour, it's me! whom the angels named Poor -
Not 7, not 6, then surely 5. Law permits you do this so that angels don't call me Poor?'
Quoth the Birkmier, 'Nevermore.'

'Be that word our sign of parting, Birk' or fiend!' I shrieked upstarting -
'Get thee back into the tempest and Hell's shore!
Leave no closed loan as a token of that lie thy soul hath spoken!
Leave my bank account unbroken! - quit the baldiness outside my door!
Take thy beak from out my pocket, and take thy balding away from my door!'
Quoth the Birkmier, 'Nevermore.'

And the Birk', never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
In the corner office far away from my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming,
And the lamp-light o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my debt from out that credit cards that lies me close to bankruptcy's door,
The Quicken curse be lifted? - nevermore!

R.I.P. Quicken Loans
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#24 UPDATE EX-employee responds

The Office Not Kept Opened. by Robert Frostie

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

The Office Not Kept Open
by Robert Frostie (aka Bobby)

Two roads diverged in a sunny city,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one banker, long I stood
And looked at comp plans as long I could
And how Quicken robbed the mortgage world;

Then took the other, much more fair,
And having perhaps the better rates,
Because it was honest and lacking fear;
Though I lost the popcorn and strawberry slush,
I broke free of Quicken Loans and TB's underworld,

And both that November unequally lay,
One filled with brainwashed and unfairly paid.
Oh, I cursed my paychecks on everyday!
Yet knowing now the unjust ways,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a sunny city, and I
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

R.I.P. Scottsdale Quicken -- pronounced dead Dec 31, 2008.
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#25 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Sweet mouthed Truth Hurts....

AUTHOR: M - (U.S.A.)

I'm not mike, I am sure Mike is a great guy, but not me (im a girl). I live in Michigan, worked in Michigan, and no longer work for QL.

I'm not quite sure if you realize how many of us spent extended periods of stay in Az, when the office opened. Not to mention my sister is in grad school at ASU.

I'm not a sheep, nor was I ever a sheep, it sounds like QL was your first trip into the mtg biz so let me let you in on a little secret (it's like that everywhere, every banker in the world wants to make as much on every loan as they can) CONSUMERS BE WARE shop your deal, let your broker/banker know you are shopping.

As far as the deposit, it sounds like you left before this happened (so did I actually I was out in April) any who now they pull the application call and screen for the deposit explanation and the call to make sure that no bankers cheat clients, many bankers have recently found themselves paying for appraisals.

I no longer work for QL, and I miss the Client Care Specialists, and the payoff team, appraisal team, HOI team etc. No one else in the industry has that much help, I couldn't imagine trying to close 10 loans where I work now, I would go nuts.

QL pays bankers less on each loan because the way their system works a banker can handle triple the business that they could take anywhere else, this obviously comes at a cost.

I am also not a fan of GW. Sorry dear.

I'm happy for you (and me) that your outta quicken it sounds like you were pretty miserable there, please remember that there are many people who work there that are VERY happy to be there so please quit trashing them, it sounds like you came through your terrible ordeal ok. Have a great day this will be my last post on this topic.
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#26 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Lemmings and Enemas

AUTHOR: Anonymous - (U.S.A.)

Hey Truthhurts -

An update for you. CN is no longer with the company since deciding to become a free thinker and questioning the hierarchy of authority. It is the best thing for him. Kudos. I never witnessed anything from him except a commitment to hard work and a loyalty to his team. Perhaps you should no longer lump him in with the rest of the cigar-smoking lemmings.

Although I can agree with some of your points regarding the rigorous work schedules, I think you are going a little too far with the karma thing. This is a consumer advocacy site. Advertising the fact that someone has battled cancer, and implicating that it is some sort of punishment for bad behavior is wrong. I think there are plenty of four year old cancer victims occupying beds at St. Jude's who would agree with me. TB's situation is private and quite personal. Try to remember that he has two small kids who have had to deal with his illness as well.

Hey, how about handing over your medical records to this site in order to justify your behavior?

My guess is that they would read something like this: Constipated, angry, white male. Highly inactive and spending way too much quality life time anonymously blasting his former co-workers. Definitely a possible candidate for mental evaluation and in dire need of an enema.
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#27 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Lemmings and Enemas

AUTHOR: Anonymous - (U.S.A.)

Hey Truthhurts -

An update for you. CN is no longer with the company since deciding to become a free thinker and questioning the hierarchy of authority. It is the best thing for him. Kudos. I never witnessed anything from him except a commitment to hard work and a loyalty to his team. Perhaps you should no longer lump him in with the rest of the cigar-smoking lemmings.

Although I can agree with some of your points regarding the rigorous work schedules, I think you are going a little too far with the karma thing. This is a consumer advocacy site. Advertising the fact that someone has battled cancer, and implicating that it is some sort of punishment for bad behavior is wrong. I think there are plenty of four year old cancer victims occupying beds at St. Jude's who would agree with me. TB's situation is private and quite personal. Try to remember that he has two small kids who have had to deal with his illness as well.

Hey, how about handing over your medical records to this site in order to justify your behavior?

My guess is that they would read something like this: Constipated, angry, white male. Highly inactive and spending way too much quality life time anonymously blasting his former co-workers. Definitely a possible candidate for mental evaluation and in dire need of an enema.
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#28 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Everything is going to be okay "M"

AUTHOR: Truthhurts - (U.S.A.)

As the name states, the TruthHurts doesn't it? If sure did get your fired up.

1. Okay, you don't like the Names how about initials. Will that make you feel better?
2. TB is probably a great person in your eyes because you are just like him.
3. CN may have eaten too many shortages as it has taken a toll on his beltline, to make him arrogant, inconsiderate and pompous.
4. I didn't say SS was a bad banker, he sure knows how to stick it to his clients to make the most premium so I guess that makes him a good banker. I stated he was a pompous, arrogant and shady.
5. Just because a girl works a hooters that gives her a title that she is supposed to be treated like meat? This depicts a lot about your narrow mind, and that you are likening quicken to a low level restaurant. Another warning to the consumer, maybe you should visit the Applebee's of the mortgage work (B of A, Countrywide etc) Not your best analogy, plus your popcorn is no where near as good as hooters wings. And the scenery, I have to say all the pot belly's at Quicken are a sight for sore eyes in comparison to a Hooter's restaurant.
6. I voluntarily left on top. I wasn't costing the company money, especially when they stopped the extravagant trips to Michigan, awards trips, medical bene's, 401k and commissions.
7. If you read the post, I wasn't wishing DEATH, CANCER, ILLNESS, or FINANCIAL HARDSHIP on ANYONE. I was just stating that Karma is a B**** and you never know when it is going to rear its ugly head. But, your in shady sales and have been a lifer in it so you wouldn't know what Karma is.
8. You're right, it is a consumer site and all the info on here about how the sales people over sell the mortgages to make more money is something that consumers should be aware of. The shady people and the work environment they work in should give the consumer some insight into these peoples thought processes (see number 4 above). These sales people are not in it to make a living, they are in it to make a killing.
9. If it sounds too good to be true (every loan that quicken tries to sell you), it is. There is your answer consumer, go elsewhere.
10. Quicken Loans doesn't want your deposit- so then why take a deposit on a home that is in the process of being remodeled, on wheels or you know will not appraise for the amount the consumer tells you. Because your director tells you, "get the deposit".
11. There are plenty of senior bankers that make/made 40k or would have annualized that if they stayed there.
12. I wasn't looking to be anyone's favorite child. I left because I am an independent thinker, could see through the wool they were trying to pull over my eyes, make my own observations (after giving a company time to show its true colors after the "honeymoon") and not become one of the sheep to follow the likes of TB, MS, CN, SS etc Not to mention the way that the company treats their employees, their livelihoods, benefits and families.
13. I don't drive the 101 and how do you know about the 101 if you are in Michigan?
14. I did agree with the company and the supposed commissions they pay until I was able to sort things out after the honeymoon period was over.
15. I did leave as soon as everything made its way to the surface and it wasn't all noise that they tell you to ignore. That means you would hear this noise and research and make your own observations as opposed to taking everything TB, CN, MS tell you as the gospel and following them like zombies.
16. In other news, when you spell and have the grammatical capability of a 6 year old no one takes you seriously and that is exactly what Quicken looks for in their employees, so I am sure you fit in well (everything is electronic there so you don't have to worry about being able to spell). Just like yourself and the many others that follow our leader Dubya. (hope that is okay to put his name here) aimlessly like a sheep and think everything on FOX is the gospel. Just to inform you, they still haven't found the WMD in Iraq. You can thank Dubya, Cheney, Greenspan and all of their cronies on Wall Street for putting you in this mortgage/real estate mess. I wish you the best at Quicken (oops, you say you are not there anymore Why not?)
17. In closing my dearest Ma, take a nap with your blankey, work on your spelling, quit defending the shady, deceitful sales people at Quicken, get back to work and make some intelligent decisions on your own of your surrounds instead of living by the Quicken isms.
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#29 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Thanks Mark Hagenbart ***The One***

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Well, I could tell that was you pretty quickly...

#1: How did you know the freeway next to Quicken if you live in Michigan
#2: The talk about equity in the home being fake money (I heard you say this a million times while working with you so long)

Yes, you won a Gilbert Award, I didn't believe it until I saw it, but you did... so what.

Tim Birkmier is one of the finest deceivers I've ever sold with, Skylar is an awful banker too, Annmarie is adorable (and it is odd that you expressed a desire to kiss her in your post).

Name dropping is bad in social situations where you are trying to improve your ego, but in the case of informing others of deception, lies, cruelity, this is where name dropping is appropriate.

As for not talking about employee affairs on a consumer website, what do you say to this? Nike was admonished for their involvement in having low labor pay for their Thailand operation (they had child labor for the creation of soccer balls and tennis shoes)... this gave them a bad name and they quickly correctly their labor practices.

Your argument is that, if a company treats their employees like sh*t what concern is it to the consumer, well my friend, it is of GREAT concern. How you treat one group of people will be similar to how you treat your clients.

Thanks Mark for your shallow input.
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#30 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Thanks Mark Hagenbart ***The One***

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Well, I could tell that was you pretty quickly...

#1: How did you know the freeway next to Quicken if you live in Michigan
#2: The talk about equity in the home being fake money (I heard you say this a million times while working with you so long)

Yes, you won a Gilbert Award, I didn't believe it until I saw it, but you did... so what.

Tim Birkmier is one of the finest deceivers I've ever sold with, Skylar is an awful banker too, Annmarie is adorable (and it is odd that you expressed a desire to kiss her in your post).

Name dropping is bad in social situations where you are trying to improve your ego, but in the case of informing others of deception, lies, cruelity, this is where name dropping is appropriate.

As for not talking about employee affairs on a consumer website, what do you say to this? Nike was admonished for their involvement in having low labor pay for their Thailand operation (they had child labor for the creation of soccer balls and tennis shoes)... this gave them a bad name and they quickly correctly their labor practices.

Your argument is that, if a company treats their employees like sh*t what concern is it to the consumer, well my friend, it is of GREAT concern. How you treat one group of people will be similar to how you treat your clients.

Thanks Mark for your shallow input.
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#31 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Thanks Mark Hagenbart ***The One***

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Well, I could tell that was you pretty quickly...

#1: How did you know the freeway next to Quicken if you live in Michigan
#2: The talk about equity in the home being fake money (I heard you say this a million times while working with you so long)

Yes, you won a Gilbert Award, I didn't believe it until I saw it, but you did... so what.

Tim Birkmier is one of the finest deceivers I've ever sold with, Skylar is an awful banker too, Annmarie is adorable (and it is odd that you expressed a desire to kiss her in your post).

Name dropping is bad in social situations where you are trying to improve your ego, but in the case of informing others of deception, lies, cruelity, this is where name dropping is appropriate.

As for not talking about employee affairs on a consumer website, what do you say to this? Nike was admonished for their involvement in having low labor pay for their Thailand operation (they had child labor for the creation of soccer balls and tennis shoes)... this gave them a bad name and they quickly correctly their labor practices.

Your argument is that, if a company treats their employees like sh*t what concern is it to the consumer, well my friend, it is of GREAT concern. How you treat one group of people will be similar to how you treat your clients.

Thanks Mark for your shallow input.
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#32 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Name Dropping and LOW CLASS.....

AUTHOR: M - (U.S.A.)

Truthhurts
Scottsdale, Arizona
U.S.A.

My dearest TruthHurts,

Tim Birkmire is one of the finest people I have ever sold with, Skylar is a great banker too, Annmarie is adorable on the phone everyone wants to kiss her right through the line that's how she gets deals, Nance was a great director too; I have personal knowledge of him eating many shortages and appraisals as not to hurt his banker. I don't think that folks at QL are racist, inappropriate sailor mouthed obnoxious jerks some days? Absolutely, when you gather that much testosterone and cram it into 6x6 cubes it is bound to happen. Don't like it? Get another job! You sound a bit like a hooters waitress complaining about the uniform, or that people treat her like a piece of meat. (Guess what if she worked at Applebee's she wouldn't have those problems you know?)

And your right it's sales, they are sales people, and when you cost more then you make the company guess what your out, YOU SHOULD BE OUT. It's not AYSO where everyone gets a trophy.

I should certainly hope that you are not wishing DEATH, CANCER, ILLNESS, or FINANCIAL HARDSHIP on ANYONE who has worked for that company or still does, please do not ever insinuate that Tim's bout with illness what some sort or retaliation from fate. Please remember that the rain falls on the good and the bad, and one day it main rain on you. When a rabbit gets eaten by a fox, is it the rabbits fault? Is he being punished for eating my flower beds? I should think not. Get my jist?

I think we need to ALL stop with the name bashing! Come on kids, THIS IS A CONSUMER SITE. ARE YOU A CONSUMER? Then stop! Or give consumers advice.

HEY CONSUMERS want some advice, if it sounds too good to be true it freaking is!

READ WHAT YOU SIGN

Don't deal with any business people (mortgage or otherwise) over cellular phones, the only calls that should be had via cell phone are things like "hey my notary didn't show up, can you check into that?" or "did you get my fax?" other then that make sure that you have conversations (with QL or any other company) via corporate phone lines, where you are offered the protection of recorded calls.

QL doesn't want your deposit so stop griping about it, it costs them more when they deny your loan then they make on the 80 bucks they are making by using TSI appraisal services.

FACE IT, your home went down in VALUE, it is happening to everyone, if your market boomed, it is now crashing, I know you probably have the nicest basement in town, with the prettiest new countertops and cabinets and that distress sale across the street was a home that hadn't been updated since 1950. That's how it works, an appraiser will compare you to the distress sale across the street and your value has dropped, it's not bogus. (trust me although I don't work at QL anymore I am still in the industry and low appraisals wreck my day too)

READ THE NEWS banks are going bust all over the place, we are more conservative, we want people WHO WILL PAY THE BILLS, and Collateral that is worth more then the mortgage even if the market continues to drop.

Equity is PRETEND MONEY until you sell, it's a bit like a stock, your portfolio could be worth millions on Monday and pennies on Friday, when your mom told you that real-estate was a GREAT INVESTMENT and property always went up, they kept urging you to buy because you COULDN'T LOOSE. Well you can, you likely did and it seriously SUCKS for all of us! Go yell at your mom for the bad investment if you must. :) Just joking, don't yell at her she gave birth to you and likely makes a great meatloaf.


TruthHurts-

I agree, you certainly did meet a recruiter who sold the heck out of you to come work there (again SALES that's why they pay them) I am sure they gave you some good odds you would hit 6 figures. Some do, most don't. I am not sure how a senior banker kept his position for very long making only 40K, base salary + minimum standards for the position would put a SR banker at about 55-65 low side, I would say that most are probably making 60-70.

And quit crying that you are not the favorite child, many favorite children have been cast off or left on their own here over the last year, it's CUT THROAT OUT THERE. You know why? BECAUSE IT'S Mother F#$%% sales! That's how it goes, go sell ads, or do financial planning or sell cars and please do note that people come and go in the sales field like nobody's business.

There are good and bad I can say about QL please if you are a consumer please read my other post about how not to get ripped off/ and how to get your money back if you do. If you follow those tips you will be JUST FINE.

End of the story, quit using people's names. TruthHurts, you may have been an excellent banker, you may have been terrible, you may have just rubbed someone the wrong way. I don't know what your real story is, but I do know that every time you got in your car drove down the 101 and got off at the princess you were agreeing with :

a. the company you worked for and
b. the wages you were being paid.

If you didn't like it then you should have had the guts to quit as soon as you changed your mind. Employees are a commodity just like anything else. If everyone started walking out things would change (yes I know many are walking out, many were WALKED OUT yada yada no overtime, 70hrs per week, no severance, they like the Michigan kids better bla bla bla.)

In other NEWS I spell like a 6yr old and have the grammatical tact of a moody 13yr old girl passing notes in class. (I'm a sales person not an English professor)
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#33 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Viva la revolution! Rome '''er ... Quicken is Burning!

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Quoting the above post::
Okay Rob seriously this is ridiculous, find something else to do. I am glad you are happy and successful at your new non-sales job, that is fantastic; sales is not for everybody and I am sorry you could not make it at Quicken.

However, to compromise the reputation and jobs of good ethical people is absolutely unethical on your part. There are too many good bankers, such as AnnMarie who was mentioned several times already, who build their business by taking such good care of their clients that they rely on repeat business and referrals. The vast majority of the bankers at Quicken have nothing but sincere care and concern for their clients and putting them in the best position possible. Any banker who commits any act of fraud or bad client service is let go immediately, regardless of how much production they bring in.

Rob you need to think about the people who you worked with who you know are good people and treated you well before you start jeopardizing careers for hundreds of people. If you are so happy in your life, then go live it and keep busy at your new job; hard to believe when you spend all your free time on here being the inconsiderate, unethical person you are trying to talk about. Hypocrite.
=========
END QUOTE...
I would like to first off, thank you for the reply and also would like to respond in brief fashion to your accusations and points.

1. You couldn't cut it at Quicken...
This is the most common way to combat a criticism of Quicken. The current employee reasons, "they must not have been successful or good so they quit." Well my friend, wrong on both counts. I was good and successful AND I still am at my current sales job. I have earned over 10k most every month this year excluding January.

But enough about me, explain why Dominic M left (successful Gilbert award winner) was sales something he couldn't do?, explain why many executive bankers will soon leave (scottsdale will be shut down by January 2009). Why did Gina (gilbert award winner) leave? Many executive bankers will be gone soon because they are on the inside circle (read: people from Michigan). I can't wait until the excuses start piling up of why they are leaving (read: office is closing). Many top SUCCESSFUL bankers are leaving and have left because they company strips you of everything, time, life, your soul. People who have been there 4 years get paid well and spoon fed leads, the other 99% suffer. Pyramid scheme indeed. Please do watch all the vets from Michigan closely in the next few months... and they said I wasn't a prophet.

2. Anmarie
Anmarie is a good person and is fairly good at her job. She takes care of her clients and doesn't rip people off. With all of this said, Quicken is still a BAD company that takes advantage of 98% of their sales staff and 98% of their clientele. The few successful people are there so that TB can keep telling everyone, "YOU TOO can one day be just like ________ "(fill in 4 year vet with one thousand protected leads). I heard that she likes to smoke though **wink wink

3. Your quote, "The vast majority of the bankers at Quicken have nothing but sincere care and concern for their clients and putting them in the best position possible. Any banker who commits any act of fraud or bad client service is let go immediately, regardless of how much production they bring in."

Let me change that to, "The vast majority of the bankers at Quicken have nothing but sincere desire to make the most off a client by putting them into whatever position possible. Any banker CAUGHT (read: by authorities outside the company, of course not inside!) committing any act of fraud or REPEATEDLY giving bad client service over a 2 year period is let go immediately, regardless of how much production they bring in."

4. Your call that I need to think of the people who treated me well

I agree. I feel bad for this small minority out there because they work for such a rotten company. I know that those people will end up in good jobs after scottsdale closes down by January 09. I would say 1 of 10 people there have good taste and class. They are like the innocent casualties of a military strike, no one wishes for them to be hurt but alas' they are. A metaphor if you would allow, in efforts to take down a rabid Godzilla reaping destruction and violence upon the innocent and weak peaceful common folk there is a chance some good people may get hurt by firing large missle at Godzilla... I believe the term is collateral damage (wasn't this also a title to a piece of cinematic genius?!)

5. Your attack on my character and claiming I must not be doing well if I spend 10min every other day creating a post...

Let me quote the upcoming film, Dark Knight which stares the prolific British actor Christian Bale... "Some men aren't looking for anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."

Well, I certainly don't want to watch the world burn but I wouldn't mind watching that company burn. Why would I spend this time if I am A. Making money and B. Happy ... well a few reasons. First, the 30 year par is at about 6.75 at the time of this post, so business is a bit slow so I have a few extra minutes (by the way, I still can earn double what I did over there!) Second, I feel like the abuse and mistreatment that occurs to the employees is WRONG and UNJUST and deserves PUNISHMENT (looks like the federal government agrees after the ruling in Quicken's last overtime case).

Lets face it, the company is awful to MOST (read: 98%) that it comes in contact with, save a few "special" managers and a few "special" bankers. (the use of the word special before can be defined as: Anyone who has kissed a** and/or been at the company for 4 years and/or works over 70 hours per week consistently...**note** absolutely nothing to do with talent/skill/ability)

Oh no my friend, I am NO hypocrite. Of course there are two sides to a war, so I don't expect to be seen positively from the brainwashed and deceived BUT AHHH for the rest of us, for the people yet to be hoodwinked and bamboozled, those are the people I write for. You see, these posts do good... People read them who are thinking of applying and say, "oh sh*t" and they don't apply. And people yet to be ripped off read it and say, "oh no". And many many are saved from hours of torment and poor treatment. So if I can be a servant to those that haven't seen what I have seen or if I can contribute to saving people months of deceit (TB) and abusive work standards then I can die a happy man.

In the words of the great patriot Nathan Hale, before being executed by the British in 1776 at the age of 21 "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country"... Well my friend, my only regret is that I have only a dozen or so posts to give to the blind, abused and misled that Quicken has yet to get to.

Viva la revolution'!
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#34 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Questionable Practices

AUTHOR: Truthhurts - (U.S.A.)

Robert from Tempe has hit almost every nail on the head with the Quicken Loans philosophy. The only thing I never encounter were racist remarks, but with as loose lipped as some of them were it wouldn't surprise me. I am an ex-employee who was better off before and after I worked for Quicken Loans. I am here only to post facts and inform the general public not to bash the company out of anger because I decided to leave the uncomfortable atmosphere.

Needless to say it was an interesting experience. Their method of recruiting "qualified candidates" is to hire them young, impressionable and make sure they love to party. Those who will be wowed by free popcorn, slushies and coffee as well as going to spectacular Livonia, Michigan for orientation and be put up in a quality hotel, and being able to get drunk every night after listening to Dan, Bill & Jay (which has now stopped). Every competition Quicken holds, the prize is based on getting drunk and smoking cigars and from what I was informed doing drugs. Who does this cater too; the recent college grad or dropout looking for their first job in what was a "get rich quick" field during the early 2000's. For the most part these employees are shady, unhealthy, addicted to prescription or recreational drugs, and are proud that they have criminal records, DUI's, poor credit, collection accounts and few morals that would land them jobs no where else than a car dealership. There were a handful of genuine, honest, educated and straight forward people that were there when I was, but I am sure most of them have left their monkey cage for brighter Arizona skies.

The model for Quicken loans works great for places like Michigan and Ohio where jobs are few and far between. For many of these State's younger and in some cases older citizens Quicken was a great job with a base of $24,000 and full medical/dental, 401k, giveaways, promotions, parties, trips etc. If you break down the amount of hours that you are required (oops, I mean Obligated) to work Quicken (60-80 hrs/wk) this works out to be less per hour than what an In-N-Out Burger here in AZ will pay you for a flexible 40 hours per week. Quicken is going to have a hard time continuing to compete for these young kids out of college or high school here in Arizona that are looking for their first job (unlike they did in Michigan and Ohio) because these kids seem to be a little more savvy when looking for jobs and there are many more opportunities out there especially with companies like Google, Verizon, Southwest Airlines, Intel, Honeywell, USAA and many others to take the more qualified candidates. Not to mention the mortgage market is in the crapper, the financial institutions that bought, buy or back these loans are getting crushed and fewer and fewer people are able to qualify for refinances let alone new home loans. There are a multitude of reasons why people leave. I left because I had been there long enough to learn how the mortgage industry works and could not feel good about what I was doing at work when I went home at night. I was threatened by the, bald prophet , 1997 slugging champion (not hard when the company had a little more than a handful of people over a decade ago) that my numbers weren't up to par and was also informed by a company wide email that the squeeze was on with benefits (deductibles increasing, coverage decreasing), 401k's (no matching) and commissions (restructuring for the benefit of Quicken).

When your Gilbert award winning recruiter (Gina) leaves along with the Breitling watch winner (Dominic), as well as the many others that I am unaware of that are applying at the Cheescake Factory, Verizon Wireless, Prudential, WaMu and the list goes on that should signify something about the employment there.
For the shady, pompous, arrogant few like the Skylar's, Dakota's, Stouffer's, Nance's, Birkmier's that feel comfortable living this life and got in early like the first ones in on a Multi Level Marketing scheme, this is a great company. They are atop the pyramid living off the fruits of everyone else's labor. I am a big believer in Karma and Tim's bout with illness is just the beginning of a life filled with deceit, cheating, stealing and the stress that accompanies it. Those that are still there I wish you success and those that have fled the compound I wish you luck in your future endeavors.

As for the consumer, I will say Caveat emptor
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#35 UPDATE Employee

Robert Klein

AUTHOR: Anonymous - (U.S.A.)

Okay Rob seriously this is ridiculous, find something else to do. I am glad you are happy and successful at your new non-sales job, that is fantastic; sales is not for everybody and I am sorry you could not make it at Quicken.

However, to compromise the reputation and jobs of good ethical people is absolutely unethical on your part. There are too many good bankers, such as AnnMarie who was mentioned several times already, who build their business by taking such good care of their clients that they rely on repeat business and referrals. The vast majority of the bankers at Quicken have nothing but sincere care and concern for their clients and putting them in the best position possible. Any banker who commits any act of fraud or bad client service is let go immediately, regardless of how much production they bring in.

Rob you need to think about the people who you worked with who you know are good people and treated you well before you start jeopardizing careers for hundreds of people. If you are so happy in your life, then go live it and keep busy at your new job; hard to believe when you spend all your free time on here being the inconsiderate, unethical person you are trying to talk about. Hypocrite.
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#36 UPDATE EX-employee responds

To Disgusted Minority Woman (Dan)

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

Thanks Dan for your comment. Anyone at Quicken who is successful is being spoonfed leads. If they were not being spoon fed top leads and they were great, they would work for themselves and get paid accordingly. Anyone named Skylar must have a mullet.
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#37 UPDATE EX-employee responds

First time poster - and this is all so much crap!

AUTHOR: Disgusted Minority Woman - (U.S.A.)

First off I dont even work at Quicken Loans anymore. I worked at the Scottsdale office with most of the people mentioned in this blog.

1. Tim and Matt ARE NOT RACIST!!
2. I know the 4 or 5 little snakes in Apples region who messed up Sam Hunter!
3. Ann Marie and Skylar are GOOD at their jobs! Skylar might be a tool but he's a d**n good banker!
4. If you can't write a d**n mortgage in a 12 or 14 hour day YOU ARE A LOSER!!

Ms. FED UP!!!!!!!!!
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#38 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Lauging at the truth of all this!

AUTHOR: Jazz - (U.S.A.)

It sounds as if you worked for Bryan Burt who would constantly punch things, throw things at his bankers, curse them out for no reason and just emotionally (and physically almost) abuse his team members. Thank god I did not work on his "team" or he would definately be in hot water. Apparently he got himself in trouble by sexually assaulting a banker. He must had paid her because she dropped the charges.

At Quicken you are torn from your family and brainwashed into thinking that you are doing a good thing!
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#39 UPDATE EX-employee responds

One of my favorite posts about Quicken from another website

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

This is just a record of Quicken from one man, it was taken from:

http://www.jobvent.com/companyBrowse.php?CompanyID=2477&searchType=company&searchText=quicken%20loans

I didn't make this post but it was so dead on that I think everyone should read it, as I listed in my previous post, there are hundreds of these across the internet and I listed almost 10 sites with a bunch of stories like the one that follows:
quoted:

Scottsdale, AZ 11/28/2007: Everything was great at first. Then I started having a few slow months. I was put on "a letter" in the 3rd week of August (a written warning in which you must acknowledge you did not meet your numbers/goals). I only had 2 "folders" (possible Loans) for the month, and was told I would need to finish with 10. Guess what? I worked so hard, and I hit my ten.

Then in September I finished number one on my team! I had 11 books! I had more then most the team!

Yet I was told I was not producing high enough, and that I was going to be "let go"! This came as such a shock. I was very upset at first, but now I am just thinking about going back to a normal 9 to 6 job! I wont know what to do with my days! We are told to "touch the 8's everyday" (meaning be at work from 8 am to 8 pm). We dont leave for lunches. We come in weekends too. We even have to go home and log in!

I will miss some things there, like a few good friends I made along the way. I WILL NOT miss any of the shady stuff that goes on, such as:

1. Being offered COCAINE by my MANAGER to stay at work LONGER. When I declined, I was told my LEADS would be given to someone "more motivated".
2. Having pens or markers thrown at me during a call because I wasnt speaking the way they wanted me to.
3. Getting paid a BASE salary of $24,000 for working AT LEAST 70 hours a WEEK, without ANY paid overtime.
4. Being told to LIE to clients or LOSE MY JOB.
5. Married men there hitting on women employees and sending pictures of themselves on their cell phone!
6. Managers "resigning" for having sex with their bankers.
7. Having to ask if it is okay to leave and take a LUNCH hour to go to the doctors office!
8. Forced to make 150 calls a day, REGARDLESS of how high my production was.
9. Hearing the owner/President, DAN GILBERT, state that Quicken has NOT laid off employees - THEY JUST HAVE "FIRED" 1500 employees instead.
10. Having ALL EMPLOYER 401k matching contributions CUT/DISCONTINUED, etc.

To people who are still there, start looking some where else. I have been told by friends in higher up positions that by the start on next year, they want to be down to under 1000 bankers. There are still a lot more people who will be FIRING ("letting go").

The truth about Quicken is, from my experience, that their business model relies upon the ability to hire up to 300-400 people at a time, send them through orientation, split them into a few groups, run them through a training (read: brainwashing) process, weed out those new hires that exhibit free thought or the ability to reason and understand standards of ethics, and fire the rest of the unfortunate souls into 'the floor'.

This ominous 'floor' is simply a massive array of cubicles where, during the blocks of time there are calls being made/taken, chaos reigns. People (read: kids) shout and holler, objects are thrown, people are running around, etc. I've seen this for myself...those of you who aren't in the know will need to take my word for it. Ask someone else who's worked there before, they'll tell you.

STAY AWAY FROM QUICKEN LOANS AT ALL COSTS!

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what a great post... my favorit quote:

their business model relies upon the ability to hire up to 300-400 people at a time, send them through orientation, split them into a few groups, run them through a training (read: brainwashing) process, weed out those new hires that exhibit free thought or the ability to reason and understand standards of ethics, and fire the rest of the unfortunate souls into 'the floor'.


That isn't Shakespeare but almost.
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#40 UPDATE EX-employee responds

First Time Poster - Interesting to read!

AUTHOR: Rick - (U.S.A.)

Hello to all!
just stumbled across this site today as im sitting here at work and decided to look up a few things about the wonderful company i used to work for Quicken Loans.

I actually worked for them for a few years out of the Livonia Office and of course i didnt deal or have to go through the ups and downs that im reading about today. Was lucky enough to be there while things seemed to be great.
I was a Regional Trainer working about as many hours as you bankers but having to sit in classrooms and run these great sales trainings.
then all of a sudden one day i walked in and the wonderful lead singer of the "Loaners" called me over and wanted to have a meeting. I felt things were going great, never missed a day had a great reputation, and great rapport with all my students.

Walked into this room and asked whats up, and all of a sudden some new guy i never seen before came in the room and told me i was being let go!
Tried bullying me into signing this d**n form stating i wasnt able to "communicate with anyone at the company or work in the mortgage industry for 6 months" i refused to sign, threw a huge fit, almost knocked someone out and then finally calmed down and got a cool head about myself, went and gathered my things and walked out the door and never looked back.

Was the place a great place to work?? the question would be no...i would have to say its all smoke and mirrors, they made it look great, threw great parties, but i know that it was at the expense of its employees. I learned real quick not to get close to anyone there as they may be gone the next day.
I have now since moved away from michigan and live in PA.

So hearing that David Hall is no longer there was news to me. All i have to say is Thank God!! he was the biggest pompus a*s i ever met or could say i know and i was so sick of hearing about him and his d**n brother on the Rock side. Funniest thing i ever seen was his stupid magic trick at the awards show to propsose. almost puked! so GAY
so who was this RVP that just got let go for assulting people??

And Sam Hunter let go for fraud?? was a great friend of mine sad to hear, but guess if its true it was needed.

And whats going on with this lawsuit? i know the first one has been going on forever...whats this i read that they are going to have a second one?? would love to be apart of that one!
write back would love to hear more

Rick
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#41 UPDATE EX-employee responds

To 2nd Time Around

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

Don't pay attention to only about what the ex-employees are saying, pay attention to what the consumers are saying about this shady company. As an ex-employee, I saw first hand how they tried to back out of a purchase a couple of times for a client of mine. He was a personal referral. Management called him and said they couldn't close the loan witht the rate promised. I was not even notified as the banker. Be very careful and find a legitimate lender. Visit your local bank instead of going through a middle man such as Quicken.
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#42 UPDATE EX-employee responds

To 2nd Time Around

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

Don't pay attention to only about what the ex-employees are saying, pay attention to what the consumers are saying about this shady company. As an ex-employee, I saw first hand how they tried to back out of a purchase a couple of times for a client of mine. He was a personal referral. Management called him and said they couldn't close the loan witht the rate promised. I was not even notified as the banker. Be very careful and find a legitimate lender. Visit your local bank instead of going through a middle man such as Quicken.
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#43 Consumer Comment

2nd Time Around Using Quicken

AUTHOR: Carolyn - (U.S.A.)

The 1st loan pre-approval went through, and I had to pay the $500 fee, but after I didn't find a home that I was just ecstatic about, I called back to the Sr. loan officer that I had and explained that to him; in turn, I received a refund minus the credit report fee!!

Now, I decided the beginning of June to try it again, and I had gone to other mortgage companies, but they couldn't help, so here again I go to Quicken, but this time, I didn't have to pay the $500 fee and I was still per-approved for4 mos with a FHA Express Loan. My credit score is a 716, and I asked was there any other loan and the loan officer said there were no other ones that would allow me to NOT put down any money; they didn't offer 100% financing there.

However, at this time, after reading all of this from the Ex-Employees, I am very skeptical in doing business with them!
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#44 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Thanks Quicken, I'm better for have knowing you, much better for leaving you!

AUTHOR: Anonymous - (U.S.A.)

i worked for Quicken for 3 years as a banker in the Michigan office as a loan specialist. meaning that I worked with people with really crappy credit. One thing that i've learned with these people is that EVERYONE has taken advantage of them. Allot of the time the previous companies before me wouldn't give them any information, tell them their credit score or even what to do to get their credit where it needed to be so that a mortgage was in the near future. I prided myself on telling the client everything I could. Allot of times the trainers would listen to my calls and say "they want the watch, they don't need to know how it works"! Well that to me is a load of crap. First of all, a home is a person's biggest asset. These clients should know their mortgage inside and out. I took the time to explain everything, i never wanted to be at fault for what the client did or did not know.

DEPOSIT*****
Ok, when you get a loan, you go with the company your comfortable with and then you have to normally order the appraisal. Quicken does this differently. they take a deposit, that's supposed to be your committment but in all actuality it's paying for your appraisal. The problem with this is that people promise to refund the deposit and give the client false pretenses that they are going to receive there money back when in fact, if they get an appraisal done, you (the client) are responsible for it. So let's not get that mixed up. It does state on your paperwork that you are not going to get this back, people really need to read their documentation.

As far as being the best company to work for? I was very disappointed when the mortgage industry took a crap. They disassembled departments and put people in positions they had no business being in, the lack of communication from one person to the next was being jumbled, it was horrible. Being that i worked with people with bad credit...we no longer had loans that made sense except for FHA which is the BIGGEST PAIN IN THE a*s IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!! These people working in operations would tell the client one thing, and another person would tell them something completely different. Business practices were being forgotten and it wasn't about the client anymore, it was about SURVIVING! While there were some people tht did well...those people were chosen to do well. They got certain types of leads, certain perks that no one else was being offered. I recall a day that I called over 100 people and had to deny all 15 applications i took. When i went a week without getting any loans, my boss actually stopped talking to me. He wouldnt help me with anything because as far as he was concerned, i wasn't making HIM money! No one was willing to just admit that the industry is in shambles, they just wanted NUMBERS!!! Well, i finally got let go after BEGGING for it for 3 months. being away from Quicken has made me so much happier because i'm not dealing with the same crap day in and day out.

I want everyone to understand that Quicken is like any other company. There are great people that work there and then there are shady people. With a work force as large as theirs, your going to run into money hungry scammers that really don't care about you. I know a few people that still work there and do great and they have major respect for their clients. It's all in finding that person!!!

As far as i'm concerned, the banks are taking back over and to be honest, Lenders shouldn't even be used. Quicken is no longer competitive with their numbers. GO to your local bank, work with someone face to face.

Oh and Thanks to Quicken for allowing me to use the vasy resources given to me. I will be a much better employee for the Bank i'm going to work for!
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#45 UPDATE EX-employee responds

People begining to realize Quicken is SMOKE and MIRRORS

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

The company I moved to is merging pretty soon with a larger bank and we are doing great... I make money, I love it. Quicken doesn't pay people.

Quicken is stupid
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#46 UPDATE EX-employee responds

People begining to realize Quicken is SMOKE and MIRRORS

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

The company I moved to is merging pretty soon with a larger bank and we are doing great... I make money, I love it. Quicken doesn't pay people.

Quicken is stupid
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#47 UPDATE EX-employee responds

People begining to realize Quicken is SMOKE and MIRRORS

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

The company I moved to is merging pretty soon with a larger bank and we are doing great... I make money, I love it. Quicken doesn't pay people.

Quicken is stupid
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#48 UPDATE EX-employee responds

People begining to realize Quicken is SMOKE and MIRRORS

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

The company I moved to is merging pretty soon with a larger bank and we are doing great... I make money, I love it. Quicken doesn't pay people.

Quicken is stupid
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#49 UPDATE EX-employee responds

again, the truth is told

AUTHOR: Truegrit - (U.S.A.)

Don't belive what they are standing up for. There are way more negative posts than good. And it is a lot more logical to believe them to be true. I personally had hung out with some of the michigan crew on several different outings to the local bar and or team meetings or parties. Most are really good people and fun to hang out with. It's sad that all they have is eachother now that they were brought to AZ. I also noticed several coin bankers that left on the vortex side. The last month I was there, #10 in closings only closed 6 loans. Wow, how pathetic. I'm now enjoying a 40k salary job working 40 hours a week with hardly any stress. And, I can now enjoy doing mortgages part time from my home. Why don't any directors or senior management stand up for themselves? Keep talking it up AZ! Rip off report will start shining through in AZ, I can guarentee that!
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#50 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Responding to a post again...

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

PREVIOUS POST::::::::
I feel like I need a shower.

If this were true, I would never work here. If you are reading this, please chalk this up to slanderous and pathetic lies. I am not part of the management team, and am definitely one who is wary about corporate environments. I don't know Matt all that well, but I do know Tim very well. These writings above are not only complete fabrications, but not very well thought out either.

Winston Churchill once said while speaking of the press, 'I don't care what they write about me, so long as they spell my name correctly.'

Congratulations Anonymous, you got one thing right! In doing that, you proved that there really are some pitifully inferior and inadequate people in this world. Start using your time more wisely, you'll make it farther in life.

Laughing at you
Scottsdale, AZ

PS If you are going to write such lengthy fables, will you please learn how to correctly utilize the English language? I felt like i was reading a complaint from a 12 year old.

_____________________

1. I think the interesting thing to note is:

A. It is actually possible that some employees may work at the company and not know about the slanderous activities. They are either new (less than 90 days) or from detroit and are being given heavy favortism. Those are the only 2 possiblities. Anyone there longer than 90 days OR not in a favortism group knows what is going on.

B. I personally have seen people add fake incomes / assets to stated loans (this is mortgage fraud). Also I could, for the purposes of a case, find dozens of bankers to testify that this not only occurs but is quite commonly practiced.

I remember saying to a guy, "the DTI is too high for approval". He told me to just send it out with inflated numbers and if the client signed it then it was OK (I didn't do this of course). I do accept the possibility that you work there and that you may be oblivious to the activities going on around you. This doesn't change the fact that it happens.

2. There is no question that management there is quite manipulative and dirty. Refer to my earlier post with the list of website links. Search for ex employees talking about their experience there. Current bankers at Quicken need to logically justify how someone could have a bad experience, they always equate it to poor performance... they think, "If a banker hates Quicken, then they must have sucked." not true. There are a lot of revenue coin producing bankers that have said, "this is the worst job I've ever had." I am still friends with over a dozen bankers that produced revenue coins in their stay who say the same. The other logical excuse is that the people posting these stories are in someway stupid or ill-informed souls with some serious character flaw... could it be possible the hundreds of stories on the internet are from good honest people that were shammed by the company you work for? ........ hmmm ....... could it be possible!?

3. The only complete fabrication I would say is the idea that they are racist. I don't know how the person got this idea unless they were over sensitive to the race issue and calls a lot of people racist... this is the only logical conclusion.

4. I like the Winston Churchil quote, it adds a touch of class but it does in no way refute the claims listed above.

5. You end your post with:

"Congratulations Anonymous, you got one thing right! In doing that, you proved that there really are some pitifully inferior and inadequate people in this world. Start using your time more wisely, you'll make it farther in life."

The irony of your statement is that you say "anonymous" proved there are horrible people in the world, yet you disagree with his allegations. This is ironic because if he PROVED there are horrible people and he is talking about TB/Matt then the only conclusion is you are agreeing he PROVED TB/Matt are horrible people.

I would disagree that he is misusing his time. I consider myself a champion towards the blind and misled.

I worked at Quicken and was abused and misled, I wish someone could have layed out a good logical discussion about what Quicken was doing before I fell for that Fortune's best employers list sham. Almost everyone I know that has left the company calls it the most horrible experience of their life, and these are TOP PRODUCERS, not slackers. Revenue coin people. I myself work for a better bank now and will easily break 100k for the year. I work less than I did at Quicken and have less stress. Lets be honest, Quicken sucks and we all know it. There are 5 people at Quicken who don't know, they are the bankers that came from Detroit with hundres of protected past clients and are being spoonfed leads. I would love those people like the Skylars at Quicken to come start over at a new company where they actually had to start working instead of being spoonfed.

People who disagree... take 30 minutes on the internet and read though some of the previous employees posts. I listed at least 7 links to websites where clients and ex employees have spoke. Many have told stories on how it destroyed their family life and their bank accounts. People working 70 hours a week and they can't afford gas, OPEN YOUR EYES.

No my friend, this is not a waste of time. Had someone informed me of this before I started at Quicken I would have saved 10 months of my life! I only wish to provide for others what I so desperately wasn't fortunate enough to have. GOOD DAY SIR!
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#51 UPDATE EX-employee responds

A simple respone to a thoughtful post by Bobby

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Responding to this post:

I currently work in the Quicken Loans Arizona office and have been with the company for 4 years. My experience has been one of working with the most ethical, positive people and company I have ever seen. In an industry where companies are closing their doors due to fraud, poor client service, etc., we have maintained our integrity and have no tolerance for team members who commit fraud or 'bait and switch' clients. This kind of stuff posted from bankers who failed at the company sickens me; I have too much gratitude and pride for this company to not post a response.

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I probably worked with you...

#1: If you have been with the company for 4 years that means you are from Detroit. This tells a us a few things:

A. You probably don't realize you are being paid poorly
B. You probably don't think you could do better somewhere else
C. The brain washing has already taken effect, which means you don't know what else is available out there.
D. There is a possibility you're one of their favored kin, which means you are spoonfed quality quicken leads and have a sweet set of protected leads (which means you're doing a different job than the other 99% of people you work with in AZ, don't be blind to that if that is you)

#2 There is no possible way you can call them ethical, I personally saw people jump in Lakewood and add a few hundred thousand to get a loan approved. You are right that some people are ethical but most aren't. Stoffer: not, TB: not, Sam Hunter, let go for fraud, many other bankers I could list... let go for fraud.

#3 Quicken loans is fake positive... they are positive if you buy into working 70 hours a week for 50k per year. If you don't follow the brain washing then they are all of the sudden Dr. Jekel and Mr. Hyde on your ***.

#4 and I hope this isn't a surprise... the arizona office probably won't make it too much longer, probably less than 6 months. Quicken sells most all their loans to Countrywide, soon to be B of A.

#5 You said, "they have no tolerance for team members who bait and switch". Come on. You can't be that blind after working there for 4 years. You do realize the staff members that suddenly disappear were commiting fraud right? They aren't all just being fired, that is why you guys keep hiring so rapidly. We both could go through a list of more than 10 people in your small arizona site who have been fired for fraud in the last year. That is a large percentage in a small site.

#6 It is funny how you say "bankers who failed"... you need to change this to say, "bankers who LEFT the company"... I could go down a list of plenty of revenue coin producing bankers who agree. Why did Dominic Mancini leave, why does everyone keep leaving? Because they suck the blood out of you. I was at the company for a year and although I wasn't great I was better than 80% of people, still I earned about 40k per year... at a new company I'm earning over 100k working less. There are only probably 5 bankers who have an easy job in AZ, the skylars and zontini's, the rest are suffering. A person who fails at Quicken could be a top producer in a regular company.
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#52 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Rubbish

AUTHOR: Edmund - (U.S.A.)

This is absolute garbage.

Is Quicken Loans rigorous? YES! Absolutely!

Were we taught how to generate as much profit as possible for ourself and our company as possible while accomplishing our clients goals? YES!

Are Tim and Matt racist? Never, ever seen anything to justify that.

I was let go from Quicken Loans after being there for 1.5 yrs, in the AZ office. Please don't believe everything you hear. This company would have been shut down yesterday if these accusations were true.
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#53 UPDATE EX-employee responds

More voices from AZ need to speak up!!!

AUTHOR: Truegrit - (U.S.A.)

I can tell you that they are professional alright. Professional BS'ers!!! They pretend to like and care about their employees. Most people there don't honestly feel comfortable with them. Truth be told, the fact is that they are completely used to the BS that goes on. I have worked for other mortgage companies and these guys could never fit in with the real professional world. They are pretty much as slippery as they get. They act like they are above everyone and act like they have real money and power.

The funny thing is I can't disagree with anything the current employee said. I was honestly bought in at one point, I trusted my leaders. They have no disclipine, low morals (from what I can tell and have heard) completely full of themselves, disrespectful towards their directors, always look burnt out, and encourage unethical practices. They read this, and are scared to rebuttle because they know specifics can be brought out! The current AZ employee that sides with QL is probally from MI.
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#54 UPDATE Employee

Be very wary....

AUTHOR: Edward - (U.S.A.)

I feel like I need a shower.

If this were true, I would never work here. If you are reading this, please chalk this up to slanderous and pathetic lies. I am not part of the management team, and am definitely one who is wary about corporate environments. I don't know Matt all that well, but I do know Tim very well. These writings above are not only complete fabrications, but not very well thought out either.

Winston Churchill once said while speaking of the press, "I don't care what they write about me, so long as they spell my name correctly."

Congratulations Anonymous, you got one thing right! In doing that, you proved that there really are some pitifully inferior and inadequate people in this world. Start using your time more wisely, you'll make it farther in life.

Laughing at you
Scottsdale, AZ

PS If you are going to write such lengthy fables, will you please learn how to correctly utilize the English language? I felt like i was reading a complaint from a 12 year old.
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#55 UPDATE Employee

Current AZ Team Member

AUTHOR: Anonymous - (U.S.A.)

I currently work in the Quicken Loans Arizona office and have been with the company for 4 years. My experience has been one of working with the most ethical, positive people and company I have ever seen. In an industry where companies are closing their doors due to fraud, poor client service, etc., we have maintained our integrity and have no tolerance for team members who commit fraud or "bait and switch" clients. This kind of stuff posted from bankers who failed at the company sickens me; I have too much gratitude and pride for this company to not post a response.
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#56 UPDATE Employee

Current AZ Team Member

AUTHOR: Anonymous - (U.S.A.)

I currently work in the Quicken Loans Arizona office and have been with the company for 4 years. My experience has been one of working with the most ethical, positive people and company I have ever seen. In an industry where companies are closing their doors due to fraud, poor client service, etc., we have maintained our integrity and have no tolerance for team members who commit fraud or "bait and switch" clients. This kind of stuff posted from bankers who failed at the company sickens me; I have too much gratitude and pride for this company to not post a response.
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#57 UPDATE Employee

Current AZ Team Member

AUTHOR: Anonymous - (U.S.A.)

I currently work in the Quicken Loans Arizona office and have been with the company for 4 years. My experience has been one of working with the most ethical, positive people and company I have ever seen. In an industry where companies are closing their doors due to fraud, poor client service, etc., we have maintained our integrity and have no tolerance for team members who commit fraud or "bait and switch" clients. This kind of stuff posted from bankers who failed at the company sickens me; I have too much gratitude and pride for this company to not post a response.
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#58 UPDATE Employee

Current AZ Team Member

AUTHOR: Anonymous - (U.S.A.)

I currently work in the Quicken Loans Arizona office and have been with the company for 4 years. My experience has been one of working with the most ethical, positive people and company I have ever seen. In an industry where companies are closing their doors due to fraud, poor client service, etc., we have maintained our integrity and have no tolerance for team members who commit fraud or "bait and switch" clients. This kind of stuff posted from bankers who failed at the company sickens me; I have too much gratitude and pride for this company to not post a response.
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#59 Consumer Comment

A response from Bobby in Scottsdale, AZ

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

A quick note about who I am before I respond. I worked at Quicken for a bit less than a year, while there Iconsistently performed in the top 10 % of the field. I was always on pace to earn 40-60k per year while being in the top 10% consistently. I have since moved to another mortgage company and earn over 100k per year working on average 10 to 20 less hours per week than i was forced to at Quicken.

Now responding to the allegations made above.

1. On Tim Birkmeir and Matt Stoffer being crooks...

First off lets start with who they are. Matt looks a lot like uncle Fester from the adams family, and he is probably one of the most talented salespeople you will ever meet. He has amazing ability on the phone and has an unwavering work ethic. Tim Birkmier isn't really a talented salesperson, he doesn't seem to work hard either. Tim is in his position because while he may lack sales ability, he is probably the most deceitful and manipulative person in America. The difference between leadership and manipulation is "who befenits?". The manipulator makes sure that HE is the beneficiary. The leader makes sure the GROUP or OTHERS benefit as a whole. Tim is getting rich off of the hard work of young naive ambitious employees. They don't know they shoudl be paid much more for the amount of time and effort they put in.

With that said, YES they are crooks. Their priorities go: 1. Their career 2. Their pocketbook 3. Making Dan Gilbert happy 4. The employees at Quicken. Realize that if #1 - #3 can benefit from an action then #4 will have to take the back seat.

2. On Tim and Matt being racist...

I don't think they are intentionally racist people, they just use the slang words that hover around our generation. Yet there is no denying that they do use the language and are probably a pair of the most fowl mouthed management in America only surpassed by Dana White, the current face of the UFC.

3. On working approximately 70 hours a week...

It is true they force you to work this long, they will get pissed off if you try to leave early, after leaving Quicken I spent a lot of time on the internet searching for others that had similar experiences. I paraphrase one gentleman who said, "They destroyed my family life and sucked out every last ounce out of me before they threw me to the side to be trampled on." Many people are forced to work 6-7 days a week and you earn 50k per year to do this.

4. On being trained to Rip Off customers...

While not all bankers there do this, it is a common practice at Quicken. You are paid extra money to charge the client more money. For example, if a loan costs three thousand dollars to complete and you can convince the client to pay six thousand with excuses like, "your credit is bad" or whatever you can come up with, then you get to pocket between 20-40% of the extra money (The rest goes into Tim and Matt's pockets). There is one banker named Skylar who repeatedly does this and is the best in the site at it. He would go around bragging how he charged someone "Three thousand in green bar" Green bar means EXCESS FEES. Skylar is fortunate because he is on a different commision plan than anyone else there. He is fed leads and is the best at overcharging so he gets a lot of past clients from people like Matt Stoffer and Craig Lombardi (although Craig became a banker again). Some bankers don't rip people off though, Ann Marie who is a top banker in Scottsdale seems to actually put very little profit in her loans but services a lot of clients so she is able to earn 15-20k a month when times are good.

So all in all, most people will try to rip you off but not everyone will. It is probably a 90% rip off, 10% no rip off break down.

5. On Matt and Tim telling people to overcharge the undereducated...

This is absolutely true, many times I was told to "hammer" the unaware, and it is funny to watch people walk around bragging about how much they charged people.

6. The good faith deposit...

This absolutely pulls in a lot of profit for Quicken. The nice thing for the owners is they only pay the bankers a commision if the loan closes but they accept a good faith deposit on EVERY loan. They try to get 500$ which makes a nice 150 to 200 dollars of profit since the appraisals only cost 300 to 350. The rest of the money is just goes into managements pockets. Every banker who stops taking deposits will be in deep deep trouble because this is a HUGE portion of the companies profits. They make the most $ off of those who pay the deposit and then cancel their loan, that is 500$ for performing no services. The bankers will try to tell you it is for the appraisal but appraisals cost a lot less than that, it is really just to make you have a feeling of commitment and a hesitancy to cancel your loan.

7. Telling customers they will do a free loan later...

This is probably the biggest lie at Quicken. They tell you there is a loan tracker system that will monitor your loan. They say that when rates drop really low they will refinance you for free. NOT TRUE. They do not do any free loans. I once asked management their to provide this in writing to send to clients and they laughed at me. They try to say since they have the Quicken name they have technology (first off, Quicken the software company has NOTHING to do with Quicken the loan company, they are completely independent organizations). I know a banker who refinanced a man 3 times in 1 year! And he provided little to no benefit each time. Amazing.

There is no loan tracker system. There is a system that says, call this guy and try to refi him again and charge him 5-10k to do a loan. Quicken loans is systematically eating up all the equity in homes across america with clever marketing and tevelision ads.

8. Quicken Loans being the #2 place to work for on Fortune magazine...

This is probably the best piece of PR Dan Gilbert has running for himself. To be #2 to Google, which is likely an amazing place to work. WOW. It got me, it got a lot of the people I knew working there. How could a company be bad if they are #2 on that list?! it is almost unthinkable. The only logical reason is because of the amount of marketing money that Dan Gilbert spends on the internet. I'm sure he pays a bit of a premium to get them to list him that high. Also the employees have to have a hand in it, the way that list is determined is by selecting a small group of employees to fill out surveys and return them. There may be 100 to 200 surveys that go out to Quicken employees. With a company as crooked as Quicken, I'm sure they not only carefully select these people (no matter what fortune magazine says, that is NOT a random group)and I'm sure they examine the answers before they let people mail them back. I once perused the responses on fortune's own website to see how many people were outright shocked they were #2. I recently noticed they were moved down from #2 to #17 on the new list.

9. Tim and Matt not having any other jobs...

This is true, and while Tim Birkmeir was the 1997 slugging champion he is probably the biggest idiot in the room. Matt Stoffer would actually be a really talented salesperson in any company although he looks a lot like Uncle Fester from the adams family.

In summary, Quicken loans is probably one of the worst companies to work for in America... fortune magazine says the average banker salary is 82k per year but is likely closer to 37k per year. Quicken people like to do what I call the salesperson RULE of 12. Cheesy salespeople take their best income month and then multiply it by 12 and say, I earn XXX dollars per year. For example, at Quicken Loans a guy might make 7k a month then make 3k the next month. Yet he tells everyone he earns 84k per year. The next time Quicken loans says something like this I would ask to see a W2 from one of their average bankers, it will read somewhere in the 30-39k range. I belive the top guy who was a senior banker earned around 60k last in 2007, and he was #1 in Arizona as a senior banker... lol.

Don't believe me though, do your own research:

(((Redacted)))

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/quicken_loans_mortgage.html

(((Redacted)))

(on (((Redacted))), you have to understand that IF you don't mind paying extra points and fees you will have an excellent experience, the service is great if you don't mind paying for it)

(((Redacted)))

(((Redacted)))

(((Redacted)))

(((Redacted)))

Enjoy


 CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
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#60 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Theyre a bunch of uneducated buffoons

AUTHOR: Tony Montana - (U.S.A.)

I have to agree w/Arizona about the bs the company pulls on their customers. Cleveland did the same thing & I no longer am there b/c I have a conscience and have to sleep at night... Most of the hierarchy in cleve are uneducated jackasses who have had no other job outside of QL..

Steven is right on, they dont know how to treat an employee and could care less about you outside of the office. The analogies they like to use are such garbage and dont work in the real world. JPerry has the people skills of a primate. If I heard the story of how he was in the right place at the right time to be gilberts b***h I was going to puke. but whatever, I'm happy now but just wanted to throw in my 2 cents as I laughed reading the other posts... giddyup & here's to QL's 85% attrition rate....
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#61 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Arizona

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

It seems as if they are really starting to screw over the Arizona office. When they were reaking havoc in Cleveland and Michigan last year, I didn't hear much from Arizona. Now they are pulling their bs there as I can see from all the posts.
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