After being "pitched" feverishly by a Quicken Loan "Banker" (I think them calling themselves that is fraudlent and misleading all by itself) to hurry up and sign documents and send them in so he could "Lock in" my rate, I re-read and re=evaluated all of the paperwork faxed to me. It had a payment that was $400.00 higher that what the little salesman "told" me and the interest rate was listed as (floating) instead of indicating it would be "locked in" at 7.25%. I will not sign ANYTHING that puts on paper something different than what was verbally given to me with the promise from an unknown person to "handle" changes. What someone "tells" you isn't worth a hill of beans. What you SIGN on PAPER is what the courts look at. DON"T sign if what you are told is not 100% documented on the papers Quicken Loan sends you!
We (my spouse and I) are not desparate by any means to re-finance. The opportunity, as presented on the phone, "SOUNDS" good.
The pressure applied by the sales people (a.k.a. "Bankers) is the typical shotgun wedding.
After much deliberation all day today without consulting any of the online resources to look up Quicken Loans, I determined that the paperwork was nothing more than my signature that "allows" Quicken to try to find me a loan based on their "estimate" pulled out of their magic little hat. Funny how they tend to lose the magic little hat once the $500.00 is in the bank, eh? All of a sudden, it becomes much harder to qualify for their "loan" - just exactly like going to the bank to apply for a fixed-rate, 30 yr. mortgage.
Then, in my last "discussion" with the Quicken SalesBanker , I mentioned that I wanted to use MY 3rd party, unbiased appraiser. He broke out on a sweat on the phone, saying, "NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT - that's COLLUSION!"
I calmly said back to him, "Well, if Quicken chooses the appraiser, then Quicken is guilty of Collusion. Appraisers that are hired by a company in hopes of having repeat business just because the company is a mortgage / lending company will be more likely to do anything remotely SUGGESTED by the company - unlike if the appraiser was hired by a one time buyer (the homeowner)."
He had nothing to reply that made sense. It was just, No, No, it's not like that. Ok - then tell me WHY I'm wrong and you're right. He couldn't. Why is MY hiring an appraiser MORE of an instance of collusion than if Quicken hires their own appraisers?
You'll read more than you want to posted by HONEST appraisers on this website:
Start by reading http://soapbox.millersamuel.com/?p=82
Mortgage Fraud: Reviewing Appraisals Inflated By Millions [part 7 of a series] which is the link above.
As you read through this website that pushes for ethics in appraisal companies, you'll see how rampant fraud is - perpetrated by companies very much like Quicken Loans.
Need more from ethical, professional appraisers? Read this:
"Texas appraiser Bob Burnitt says Durn it! He's sick of fraud.
I have only practiced real estate appraisal in the state of Texas, but in my 53 years of being on this planet, without a shadow of a doubt, real estate appraisal is the most corrupt ?profession' I have ever seen,? says a disgusted Burnitt. ?It is my belief at this point it is no different in any other state.? " >>> the rest of the article on http://soapbox.millersamuel.com/?p=32
Seems like the Quicken Cheerleaders are oh so proud that Quicken Loans closed 11,000 a month.
If Quicken Loans closed 11,000 loans a month, sure, there are lots and lots and LOTS of appraisers that want to get on that money wagon. Whammo. You are attacked by the $350 drive-by-appraisal.
Let's do some simple math here:
Average Loans per month: 11,000
Time 12 months in a year: 132,000 loans per year
BESIDES the interest from the loans being pushed (interest only for 10 years) where Quicken Loans rakes in all their interest for 10 years while STILL basically owning 100% of the person's home, each person that has a loan closed has also paid that $500.00 fee. (Oh, and don't worry, Quicken Loans will refinance you for free before the 10 years is up so you'll still not have any equity in your home an pay outrageous interest payments only. What a great deal. I can't wait.) Back to the model:
Hmmmmm - that means that at least 66 MILLION dollars (over Half a BILLIION) per year is made off of the APPROVED loans only.
And Jay, Michelle and Brian (who all seem to be employed in the PR department of Quicken to perform damage control) say that Quicken doesn't make any money off of this "fee". I've seen it posted by one or more of them several times something like - "Do you honestly think that a company worth a Bazillion dollars a year would care about a paultry little $500.00 deposit?" Yes, I think they would. Particularly when it is added with 11,000 (monthly) other $500 deposits. I think for 66 MILLION dollars a year, operations like Quicken Loans could put quite a few "appraisers" in their portfolio (back pocket) that would willingly and eagerly do whatever it takes to keep the lions share of the monthly "fee" pool. Steady, crooked income. That's what I like to see.
That doesn't take into consideration the thousands of "pre-approvals" that DON'T go through, who ALSO pay that $500.00 fee.
The average US appraisal costs around $350.00, more or less but close to that according to housing and real estate statistics from reputable real estate industry resources.
Let's say that a credit report (which I will also address) costs $25.00.
That adds up to $375.00. So, if all of that is honest charges and there is a $125.00 balance, why is the total $500.00 charged instead of the actual charges, why isn't there a receipt for the "appraisal" given to the client since the client "purchased" it, and why do consumers have to fight so hard to get the balance due to them?
Would it be due to the fact that Quicken Loans perhaps might use the balance in a bank account to accrue interest for as long as they can fraudulently hold on to the money?
Hmmmm again, let's do some simple math.
Let's say that 1000 people in Georgia got turned down for loans this month.
Let's say that the real cost of appraisal and credit report is $375.00.
Their balance of $125.00 times 1,000 equals $125,000.00 per month.
Even at 1% per month interest in a regular bank savings account - that is $1250.00.
Big deal you say? Yep.
Multiply that times 50 states. Per MONTH.
50 x 1250.00 = $ 62,500.00.
OK, so still not a big deal? Multiply that by 12.
So in a year, Quicken can effectly sluff off an extra 3 Quarters of a MILLION dollars ($750,000.00) just by holding average refunds for 30 days or more.
So - Quicken approves 11,000 loans a month eh? If they tie up or delay or deny 12,000 applications per month for 30 days and hold onto $125.00 refund of the $500.00, they'll make A MILLION and a HALF - $1,500,000.00 per MONTH just in INTEREST alone based on the paultry 1% interest from a real bank savings account - and you KNOW they get a higher percentage rate than that. Most likely would buy a batch of 30 day CD's that yeild 5% interest over 30 days and have a batch (a couple million dollars) expire every day of the month after they collect interest which would free up funds on a daily for refunds to people who actually fight to get what little they can manage to get back. That is - one might get a refund AFTER some serious interest has been generated in the bank with it.
There is enough evidence to speculate that these type companies will "hold" refunds forever if you don't fight for it.
Now - logically, since Quicken Loans has over 1,300 employees, and probably most all of them except for Jay, Michelle and Brian are in the sales boiler room, you KNOW there are more than 1,000 so-called pre-approved applications being submitted Per STATE every month and "awwwwwww, unfortunately TURNED DOWN" every month - (gee I don't know what happened....you were pre-approved and everything looked so good.....).
Buh Bye $500.00 that pays salaries for the happy boiler room sales people "bankers".
Yes, it's true. If you read the "pre-approval" agreement, it says,
With your deposit of $500.00, you AUTHORIZE Lender to BEGIN processing your loan application and advance out-of-pocket expenses on your behalf. You authorize Lender to charge this deposit amount to your credit card. Lender will not accept a check or cash.
IF your application is approved: At the closing, Lender will credit the amount of your deposit on your closing statement toward your closing costs. IF your application is denied: Lender will refund the deposit less the actual amount of out-of-pocket expenses incurred on your behalf for, among other items, the cost of an appraisal and/or credit report.
Please note that I personally capitalized important words in these quoted paragraphs for emphasis. The actual wording has no words on the papers that are in all caps.
This tells you that your "pre-approval" is worthless and Quicken Loans states what will happen IF you are approved for a loan and IF you are not approved. It does not matter what the boiler-room sales people tell you or promise you. It just matters what is on the paper you sign.
Now........about that CREDIT REPORT. I pulled my husbands and my credit reports last night. Today, I informed the little boiler-room salesman that called again that I had pulled it. I saw many errors on my husband's credit report.
The salesman told me that he had a great readout from both of our scores combined. I said, "But it doesn't even list my husband's correct employer!" He said, "Well that doesn't matter, what I have shows your records are in good shape, but it doesn't show employer information." That's exactly what he said. He said our combined scores were 665. What does that matter if the "reports" are grossly incorrect?
It's OKAY for our so-called credit REPORTS to not show my husband's correct employer?????
WHAT A LOAD OF SHICK!
We'll get approved for a loan with incorrect information on our official financial statements and credit report? I DON"T THINK SO.
But - that's what he told me. And that is where he totally lost me right there - 100%. I knew it was just a ploy to get my $500.00 since no lender would let that slide. How stupid did he think I was?? Unfortunately for him, not stupid enough. Rats - he missed his little sales commission. He was overly reassuring that all of the records would not matter - he could get me a loan with low payments - no problem.
Most people would have been over-joyed to hear those words knowing that they have less-than-perfect credit. Sure they would. People in dire straights, hoping to refinance to get out of a bad situation are being LIED to and these are the people that are so desparate to get out of financial situations they'll believe just about anything to grab onto one ray of human decency and hope.
Well, you won't get hope OR human decency from such outfits as Quicken Loans.
I'm just WAITING for them to charge my credit card. I did not sign ANY papers of any kind and did not authorize them to use the card for anything. Obviously, they did NOT pull an official credit report. He said their report did not show "employers" or previous addresses so obviously, it was not an official credit report - so how can he make any "pre-qualification"? I'm going to look into the legalities of that statement (and others).
When I declined to send in the paperwork, he started pressuring me with, "Well, the interest rates could go up substatially by tomorrow - you need to lock in now!" I said, "Why didn't you say that last night when I said I needed to talk about this with my husband. That wasn't an issue from yesterday through today......." Lots of boiler-room-sales-banker stammering insued.
We'll see. I'll be ready. I own an online television station ya know ;-)
Good luck everybody, and take the time to read ANYTHING you put your name to. If it does not say in writing what you've been told - do NOT sign!!!
PS - I have noticed the hostility and attacks by so-called Quicken Loans Employees on this website. This type of attacks on consumers in a public forum is NOT professional by any means. Having your employees attack consumers in public calling them "stupid", Idiot" and telling them to "get a life"? Wow, that is truly a professional outfit, eh? I can just see the bankers at Wachovia and Wells Fargo frantically taking notes on how to handle them pesky consumers properly according to Quicken Loans Professional Training Manuals for Customer Service.
PS-PS - Need a good lawyer? Check this guy out. I'm partial toward his current portfolio ;-):
Bradley Blower was lead counsel of the FTC's predatory lending case against Capital City Mortgage Corporation and managed several of the Commission's other major predatory lending cases, including the First Alliance Mortgage Corp. settlement and the Stewart Finance Company, Inc. case.
Mr. Blower managed several of the Commission's important FCRA/FACTA cases including the settlements with Quicken Loans, Sprint, AT&T and Imperial Palace.
Bradley H. Blower served as an assistant director and senior attorney in the Federal Trade Commission's Bureau of Consumer Protection from 1998 to 2004, where he managed and litigated cases involving consumer credit, predatory lending and financial privacy.
Relman & Associates, 1225 Nineteenth Street NW, Suite 600, Washington, DC 20036
FBI - Mortgage Fraud - (Report It!) - http://www.fbi.gov/publications/financial/fcs_report052005/fcs_report052005.htm#d1
Center for Responsible Lending
302 West Main Street
Durham, NC 27701
Phone: (919) 313-8500
Fax: (919) 313-8595
910 17th Street NW, Suite 500
Washington, DC 20006
Phone: (202) 349-1850
Fax: (202) 289-9009
Predatory Lending & Victim Referral Services:
Phone: (919) 313-8523
Mortgage Bankers Association
http://www.stopmortgagefraud.com/ CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
Consumer Federation of America (CFA)
Raleigh, North Carolina