• Report: #505322

Complaint Review: straight forward dressage and jumpers

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  • Submitted: Tue, October 06, 2009
  • Updated: Sun, January 17, 2010

  • Reported By: helen — arlington Washington USA
straight forward dressage and jumpers
5125b 246th street ne arlington, Washington United States of America

straight forward dressage and jumpers - patrick billes - laura roth hired this company/horse trainer to work with my grand prix horse. he abused this horse by beating him for 45mins. and not feeding him. he lost 200 pounds. arlington, Washington

*Consumer Comment: Untrue

*Consumer Comment: against patrick.

*Consumer Comment: Absolutely not true

*Author of original report: Worst Nightmare Comes True

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Abusing Ripoff Report

*Consumer Comment: Much the same experience

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I boarded my prix st. georges FEI horse and another horse at this facility for nine months.  They charged me for supplements they never purchased or fed and charged me $300 for a $42 double bit.  They constantly changed feed causing diareah every month and one colic episode.  They charged for training rides they never provided.  My horse ended up 200 pounds underweight and unfit for dressage according to a new expert dressage trainer.  It was gross malpractice.  The worst was this trainer beat my horse for 45 minutes with a lunging whip about the feet because he broke a bridle.  I filed complaints with animal control and left the barn.  This trainer even left his own horse hobbled in a stall unattended for 14 hours.  Beware of this facility, it is a major rip off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 10/06/2009 03:09 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/straight-forward-dressage-and-jumpers/arlington-Washington-98223/straight-forward-dressage-and-jumpers-patrick-billes-laura-roth-hired-this-companyhor-505322. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
1Author 4Consumer 1Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Comment

Untrue

AUTHOR: Anonymous - ()

These claims are utterly ridicullous, unsupported, and obviously unproven. Firstly, none of the horses in the barn are underweight. Coming from a nice barn, my horse was on the skinny side, hard to keep weight on. Have been there a year and he is healthy and even getting a little fat. I show up randomly during the day and spend the better part of most days there--my horse is fed hay and grain on a regular schedule, and his health proves it. The horses get turned out half the day either in a run to stretch their legs or in a large grass turnout, and there have been no real health issues.

My nervous horse hardly ever has gastrointestinal issues, and horses with extensive history of colic have been well cared for. The barn is kept clean and is constantly being improved. Billing has been consistent, reasonable, and we recieved huge notice for any price changes, along with itemized lists detailing the cost of everything which contributed to the price of board. I have never witnessed any neglect or abuse by anyone at the barn. The horses are not babied, but all are content and none are "unjustifiably beaten and hobbled" Horses need discipline, but just because a trainer breaks out a crop or spurs, that doesn't qualify as "abuse".

I've seen the green, difficult horses which make up the majority of his barn act in all sorts of ridiculous manner, but he always remains cool and calm, and the horses end on a good note. Not once have I seen this supposed anger management problem, or has he lost his cool. Feel free to engage in your slanderous accusations, because you will not dissuade those who know they hold no merit based on personal experience. I hope that your "FEI" horse has found a trainer you don't have unjustified hatred for, and that the anger which made you lash out in this manner against a responsible trainer is addressed. 

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#2 Consumer Comment

against patrick.

AUTHOR: laurentide11 - (United States of America)

I am a fellow horse person of the area where Patrick trains in, numerous cases have been discussed about his poor treatment of horses, and his raging temper. I have seen him ride and I see what has been done to the horses that come out of his facility. When meeting him he seems nothing different then most, well spoken, talks as if he has mileage in many aspects of the horse business etc.. regrouping a horse after what he has done to it is a much different story, i have seen 3 cases now of horses that have lost all confidence and trust for humans due to his mishandling of them and cruel methods, i have seen the methods he uses to "train" setting his horses up for failure such as a grid that was set up much to long just so the horse fails and then he goes about beating the horse.. this is me isn't a way to train, or another case to where he places his stallion in a crosstie right next to a mare who was in season at the time just so he could beat his privates when he was excited.. for 45 mins attempting to train on the stallion. this man isn't qualified for anything in the horse business, and i hope to god someone catches him in the act to the point that this can be taken into legal hands and hopefully stopped for good because there are enough people who are discusted with this horrid man.
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#3 Consumer Comment

Absolutely not true

AUTHOR: horsegirl - (United States of America)

During these tough economic times its unfortunate that many people are experiencing financial trouble that has caused them stress to the point of striking out against innocent people, which is exactly the case here. Helen Immelt, and her husband Jay Immelt, have chosen this path of lies to gain financially by making untrue statements about Patrick and Laurel, and the treatment of Helens horse Wizard.  It never fails to amaze me how cruel people can be when they are motivated by money.  Helen and Jay should be ashamed of themselves.

I have had my horse boarded, in full training, with Patrick and Laurel for nearly a year. I am 100% satisfied with the training, care, and treatment of my horse and yes, I have shown up to the barn unannounced. Patrick has trained my horse way beyond my expectations. Previous to my horse being in training with Patrick, he was in training for 10 months at a well know A circuit hunter/jumper barn.  My horse was bucking, rearing, had a poor work ethic, was only jumping 26, and was spooking at everything! After 3 months in training with Patrick my horse competed at his first A rated hunter/jumper show in the 3 jumper division. No more bucking, rearing, and spooking he is full of confidence and loves his job. I am a completely satisfied client and my horse is fat and happy!  I was with my previous trainer for 9 years and I am so happy with Patrick and Laurels program that I am staying on with them.

In my opinion, Helen Immelts two horses were very well cared for, not under weight (I would say they were on the verge of being fat), and were never treated in a manner that would be deemed abuse. Helens horse, Wizard, is not a Grand Prix or Prix St. George FEI level horse as she stated.  His show records (available online) indicate that he has only been shown up to Level 4.  He is an elderly horse at the age of 17 and Helen purchased the horse for $3,000.  He is not the horse that she is portraying him to be.

And regarding Patricks response pointing out Helens arrest record and Jays disbarment.well, doesnt that tell you how credible these people are? Do not believe a word they say.

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#4 Author of original report

Worst Nightmare Comes True

AUTHOR: h immelt - (USA)

Just as the Stanwood person who had a similar nightmarish experience with Patrick and Laura feared, Patrick and Laura are retaliating and doing so in a most childish manner.  First, please note that in Patrick's "rebuttal" he does not deny beating our horse.  Second, animal control DID NOT give him a clean bill of health -- animal control said they could not prosecute him as there were no "independent witnesses."  Third, Patrick KNEW Wizard had had a left rear suspensory ligament tear but chose to beat him with a whip about his hind legs.  Fourth, Patrick did not deny that he had wrongfully charged for supplements he did not provide and did not deny that he had cheated us on the bit purchase.  Fifth, it was not us who claimed that Wizard was 200 pounds underweight, it was Patrick's trainer, a "high point FEI rider," who told Patrick the horse was underweight!!!!!!!!

Rather than dealing with the facts, Patrick chooses to disparage us with stuff that is completely unrelated to his care of our horses.  It is so "chicken....," for him to bring up a 30 year old Bar matter having nothing to do with horse care!  And the horn honking?  The Supreme Court recently voted unanimously to review the propriety of the Court of Appeals decision.  Besides, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?  Or beating a horse!!!!!!!!!!! 

If you are prospective boarder with these two people, all you have to know is how they respond to appropriate, responsible criticism -- attack, attack, attack!!!!!!!!!  Do you or your horse really need that??????????????

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#5 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Abusing Ripoff Report

AUTHOR: Patrick Billes - (United States of America)

I would first like everyone who read Helen Immelts complaint to listen to what I have to say.  A quick google search of her and her husband will allow each reader to decide their credability. 


Helen's arrest for harassment. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009316426_honking09m0.html


Her husband's permanent disbarrment. http://wa.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5Cwa%5CPLS%5C1992%5C19920625_0040384.wa.htm/qx


Both the Veterinarian and Animal Services Officer scored both horses as healthy bordering overweight.  Her "FEI" horse bit several people in the barn.  Helen also made radical accusations about her previous trainer and boarding facility. I lived up to all agreements made.

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#6 Consumer Comment

Much the same experience

AUTHOR: Anonymous - (United States of America)

I had much the same experience with these people.  I saw firsthand the evidence of abuse and have seen the neglect myself.  In addition, I stepped in to try to mitigate the effects as much as possible. 

However, I am remaining anonoymous in fear of retribution if either Patrick or Laurel realize who I am.  Patrick's temper is frightening and can turn to people as quickly as it can to horses.  He has a serious anger management problem.

Please, please, please, contact Animal Control in your country if you want to do business with Patrick.  You'll find complaints in at least two counties that I am aware of. 

Nothing in the report above surprises me.  Their business practices are suspect at best.  They come across well at first, but go the barn unannounced and you'll find a different situation completely.  There is a reason that they don't encourage dropping in. 

But above all, horses can't speak for themselves, so research Patrick with other area professionals - you'll find that their reputation is not good.  Word is getting around, and it needs too - for the sake of the horses in their care.

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