- Report: #614490
Report - Rebuttal - Arbitrate
Complaint Review: The Coin Vault
The Coin Vault94 East Union City Pike Winchester, Indiana United States of America
The Coin Vault SIlver Towne Sold Fraudlent Coins Winchester, Indiana
*Author of original report: Fraud Continues
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On the following dates I purchased raw Morgan Silver Dollars from the Coin Vault.
Sales Order 594484 On March 23, 2010 (20 coins)
Sales Order 598398 On March 30, 2010 (20 COins)
Sales Order 607286 On April 13, 2010 (20 Coins)
Sales Order 623857 On May 11, 2010 (20 COins)
The first three sales orders above were received by me as ordered. On about April 20, 2010, I sent forty of these coins from the first two orders in their original coin vault containers to PCGS for grading. All twenty of the first order and all twenty of the second order were sent. I still have two vaults of twenty coins each for order 607286 and 623857.
Today, by e-mail I received the results of the grading by PCGS. Out of forty coins, 19 were ungraded because they had been either cleaned, buffed or polished. Out of the remaining 21 Morgan Dollars, only seven graded MS62. Under Sales Order 594484 It stated in writing that twenty of the coins would grade MS62 or better. In addition, out of the remaining twenty coins under sales order 598398, 19 are ungraded as they are nothing more than scrap silver. These coins were sold as AU/BU quality and so stated in writing on the invoice...
The breakdown by PCGS is as follows:
MS61 7 coins
MS62 7 coins
MS63 1 coins
AU58 4 coins
AU55 2 coins
Total 21 coins graded and good out of forty submitted.
Genuine but not graded are 19 coins appraised as follows:
Genuine 98 damaged tooling 1 Strike poor
Genuine 94 Altered 1 Polished or buffed
Genuine 97 Environmental damage 1 Unknown
Genuine 92 Cleaned 16 Cleaning Solution Applied
I called Coin Vault customer service facility on(May 21, 2010 around 11:30AM CST)) after talking to PCGS and spoke with Nancy. I explained the matter to her and asked her what you intended to do about this. She wasn't sure and said she would have someone call me back. No one called back, so I placed my complaint in writing..
I consider this to be a Coin Vault problem and for them to correct it. Coin Vault presents itself as professional coin dealer and above reproach. But there is obviously something wrong with their QC ot hey are operating in a knowleny fraudlent manner. As a dealer, altered and cleaned coins should not get by their inspection department. let alone be sent to customers. On the other hand, I as a buyer expect the coins to be as presented as genuine without fraud in their presentation. Also, it is almost impossible for a layman to know what grade the coins are and what quality they represent witout some professional help.
Acting on that faith, I have spent $728.00 grading coins that half are going to be thrown away, while not receiving the coins I paid for. The final order listed above 623857 was coins that were probably from the same hoard I received the other bad coins from. Since they were received and still within the thirty day return window and the company was showing no sign to try and resolve the problem, I returned them fro credit.
Over the course of this problem, the company seems to think that it is alright to ship customer coins that were altered to appear a better grade than they were sold for and the customer has thirty days to find this out and return them.
My inital thought about this problem was that it was an error made by the company QC department and that any reputable compnay's first thought would b to try andresolve the matter in a away that was fair to all. Througout this ordeal, they have been anything but cordial. Their stance has been I had thirty days to find the problem and retrun the coins.
The problem with that is oyu can not walk down ot your loca coin grading servic and have them appraise your coins. The only source for this service is the professionla grading services. When sent to them, the turn around time is thrity to sixty days. Besides, I feel this has nothing to do with the fact that the coins they sold were not as represented.
My recourse then was to place the complaint in writing and notify my credit card company of the dispute. This resulted in the Credit Card company backing out the charges and demanding a response from the coin company. That got their attention. They called immediately and said they were sending me mailing lables to return the coins.
The problmewith that is I amnow return bad coins and those that I paid $728 t have graded and placeed in certifieed coin slabs. Their reply to that wa, That is your problem. I then called the card company and they said that if they offer to refund your money on the purchase and you refuse to send them back, they will have to reverse the charges back to the coin company.
I then contacted an attorney and he said, I would have ot go to Indiana to hae the case heard and the cost would bemany times the $720. His advice, return the coins and try and go after the company through the State Attorney General and the BBB. At least you will only be out the $720, not the two thousand dollars for the coins.
Here is where I believe the real problem comes in for any customer of the Coin Vault and why anyone that buys raw coins from his company should be forewarned. The sixty coins I returned have coins that are graded and worth more than I paid for them. There is nothing to prevenmt The Coin Vault from turning around and selling these coins at market prices, recovering more than they sold them to me for. The balance of the coins that are ungradeable, can be broken out of their certified slabs and mingled with another batch of raw coins and sent to an unspecting customer. Unless that customer is a very knowledgeable coin collector, he will never know the truth until months or years later. Worse, he could sell or transfer the coins to another unsuspecting buyer and harm additional coin collectors in the future.
In my opinion, the way this company has reacted to the problem and the total disdan for meas a customer that has purchase $17,000 of coins from them, in telephone conversations, leads me to believe that I am not an isolated case. In fact it is possible this is a scam that goes on at a continuing rate. The chances of detecting this coin swaping and enhancing process is almost impossible to detect. It is the primary reason most Coin Companys rely on their reputation and customer satisfaction to continue in business.
The Coin Vault dos not belong to the Better Business Bureau. A check with their records shows that the company has had one complaint in the past year and it was resolved satisfactorily. A second complaint was solved administratively, what ever that means. Interestingly enough, the resolved complaint was selling practices. However, my case will get the same rating as the company will show that it has refunded my money and satisfactorily resolved the matter.. The fact I lost $720 on my actions due to their fraudlent sale of coins, is not part of their record or the BBB, unless I can tie them up in law suit, which seems costly and unlikely..
One additional hint of suspicion is the fact this company from 1950, has operated as Silver Towne with Silver Towne Marketing Group handling their sales. IN 1997, they changed their name and corporate identy to The Coin Vault And the Coin Vault Marketing Group. During the period this last BBB complaint appeared but was shown as against Silver Towne. It is also strange that my coins were picked up and paid for return by Silver Towne, even though I purchased them from The Coin Vault I do not know if their is any connection, but my dad always said where there is smoke there is fire.
AS a follow up tot his complaint, I have filed a complaint with the BBB of Indianapolis, Indiana, the Federal Trade COmmission in Washington, DC, and the State of Indiana Atorney General.
This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 06/15/2010 07:37 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/The-Coin-Vault/Winchester-Indiana-47394/The-Coin-Vault-SIlver-Towne-Sold-Fraudlent-Coins-Winchester-Indiana-614490. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.
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