• Report: #973401

Complaint Review: "The-Life-Business" A pyramid scheme led by two dangerous men named Orrin Woodward & Chris Brady!

  • Submitted: Sun, November 25, 2012
  • Updated: Tue, March 31, 2015

  • Reported By: Wise to your Lies — Michigan United States of America
"The-Life-Business" A pyramid scheme led by two dangerous men named Orrin Woodward & Chris Brady!
4072 Market Place Flint, Michigan United States of America

"The-Life-Business" A pyramid scheme led by two dangerous men named Orrin Woodward & Chris Brady!"Life" "The Life" "The Life Business" "The Team" "Team Life" Too many other phony names to list. Dangerous - Deceitful - Cult - Vicious Predators - Bold Face Liars - Contact the Attorney General's Office in Michigan to file official criminal reports! Flint, Michigan

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: To Tom Paine.

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Life Leadership Exposed

*Consumer Comment: SOME HATE GOOGLE...

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Can't believe how much they lie

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Now I'm gettin mad. And so is God

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Truth. Come on guys

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Wanted to believe. What happened to team of destiny?

*UPDATE Employee: A "Pyramid". Try this angle please.

*UPDATE Employee: for the truth

*Consumer Comment: Just let the wolves have their sheep?

*Consumer Comment: LIfe is REAL!!

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: What Is Going On Here?

*UPDATE Employee ..inside information: Haven't made a Penny

*Consumer Comment: Interesting

*General Comment: Best Company around

*Consumer Comment: Very much a pyramid scheme

*Consumer Comment: Jerry Chen, with an "e," NOT Chin - LOL

*Consumer Comment: Jerry Chin - I Googled it!

*Consumer Comment: Way to Go, Plano!

*Consumer Comment: Idiots Never Stop Being Idiotic

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: Plano-TX

*Consumer Comment: Butthurt Tex...

*Consumer Comment: Nemesis Joins the Stupid Club

*Consumer Comment: Excuse the typo...

*Consumer Comment: Response to 2 Idiots

*Consumer Comment: Name one, you say?

*General Comment: True Comedian Tex!

*Consumer Comment: Johnson321 is the IDIOT

*General Comment: Tex-Plano, You're an idiot

*Consumer Comment: Mother Woodward

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: Mother Teresa

*Consumer Comment: Not Personal At All

*Consumer Comment: Rebuttal to the BS

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: Now It's getting personal

*Consumer Comment: You're Wrong AGAIN, Bob

*Consumer Suggestion: Rebuttal to the Rebuttal

*Consumer Comment: You're WRONG, Bob

*UPDATE Employee: Living Intentionally For Excellence

*Consumer Comment: Living Intentionally For Excellence

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: TEAM = AMWAY

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This will be the first of many reports that will be written to stop this vicious "Company" called "The-Life-Business."

"The-Life-Business" is composed of a den of thieves! However, they like to be called that. Why, you ask? Simple: This is just one of many ways that "The-Life-Business" operates. In fact, that's the way a true cult operates! They turn the real negative truth around to use for their benefit. They tell those that they are trying to sucker into their pyramid scheme that "many will try and tell you we are a cult."

Here's how a true cult like "The-Life-Business" works:
1.They give you the phony story about how they are "Christians."

2.They give you the phony story how "True Christians" are "Attacked" by claiming they are "Cultists."

3.After they brain-wash you with their bold-face lies, they have you!

4.They then tell you how the "Rest of the world" cannot "Understand" their "World."

5.They tell you that you are going to "Have your own business."

6.They hound you relentlessly to get you to pay to attend their "Meetings." (Thus, putting more
money into the pockets of the criminal Orrin Woodward, and his dangerous criminal friend, Chris Brady).

Bottom Line:

"The-Life-Business" is led by the criminal Orrin Woodward! The number 2 criminal is Chris Brady!

Both of these men are dangerous predators!

Be on the lookout for a deceitful webpage titled: "The Shocking Truth About Orrin Woodward."
This is an article written by one of "The-Life-Business" members that is trying to use reverse
psychology on you by using the term, "The Shocking Truth."
There's not one shred of "Truth" in that article. In fact, the article is nothing more than one of
their huckster attempts to trick the general public!

Also, be on the lookout for the brain-washing books and CDs that these criminal try to get you
to purchase! They are filled to the brim with "touching little references" to the Bible and "Christianity." Do not fall for this trap!

Don't allow yourself to become the next victim sucker!
Remember what Police have told you all around the world:
"If it seems too good to be true, it probably is."

"The-Life-Business" is a complete sham!
Orrin Woodward is a two-bit criminal!
Chris Brady is a two-bit criminal!

Watch for the next Ripoffreport review of this dangerous cult, "The-Life-Business."

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 11/25/2012 12:27 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/The-Life-Business-A-pyramid-scheme-led-by-two-dangerous-men-named-Orrin-Woodward-Chris-Brady/Flint-Michigan-48507/The-Life-Business-A-pyramid-scheme-led-by-two-dangerous-men-named-Orrin-Woodward-Chris-973401. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
0Author 34Consumer 6Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 REBUTTAL Owner of company

To Tom Paine.

AUTHOR: E1wilson - (USA)

 Just because some of the info is good info that comes from 3rd party sources doesn't mean that they are liars and scammers. I say through two years of team of destiny with a group of young hungry people that crashed and burned and lost all my friendships and made no money. I did learn some general useful info to minimally help me in down the road I guess that came from books wrote by 3rd parties. And did not have to be member of TOD. Which I made no money. So you can keep up with the same speel, we were not forced or pressured which is not true. Not forced but def pressured. It's all BS. I also learned if it's to good to be true it is. And if I would have been successful TOD failed anyway so I woulda lost no matter what. No one answers the questions. Just keep up with company speel. Really sad. It's just the facts. No one makes money. Waste of time

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#2 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Life Leadership Exposed

AUTHOR: ThomasPaine - (USA)

 I've been a member of Life for a few months now. I bought several books, a bunch of cds, several subscriptions, and I've attended every event that they offer. Every product I purchased I did on my own without any pressure from the business. Of the $500 give or take that I've spent, the same amount of information from any other company on the same topics is at least $2,000. The guy who introduced me to the business meets with me several times a month to coach me on my relationships, finances, and leadership skills totally free of charge. Outside of Life I've been offered raises, promotions, and new jobs because the people I work with have seen improvements in my character, work ethic, and leadership skills. Life has been in business a little over three years now with thousands of positive testimonies. Pyramid schemes are illegal so if Life was a Pyramid scheme it would have been shut down by now. The founders of Life give significant amounts and time to nonprofit organizations here and also in Guatemala. Life is an open company; they have an income disclosure statement approved by the bureau of labor statistics. You can learn everything about them on their website without spending a cent.

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#3 Consumer Comment

SOME HATE GOOGLE...

AUTHOR: Karl - (USA)

can be typed in at this site. Just type in- SOME HATE GOOGLE, and read the related Ripoff Reports for important information.

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#4 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Can't believe how much they lie

AUTHOR: E1wilson - (USA)

The truth of the matter is this. PLEASE anyone just do some research on these guys. Google chris Brady, Orrin Woodward and tim marks' names. Don't just believe me. Do your own research. You will see that's it's all lies and it's all over soon. The Hubers and the haugens, etc were not smart. had little common sense. Ever. they met the guys with all the info. The guys that created the scam. The guys that decided if you were ever gonna make money with team of destiny or life. Mark huber made my money cause he hung out with Orrin daily. tim marks made money cause he hung out with Orrin daily. Of course your gonna make money on stocks and investments if you got Bernie madoff as ur broker. I made nothing cause I had a college drop out upline with no connections to Orrin or chris. I dont feel sorry for the hubers at all. I remember mark giving out financial advise and this guy is like 60gs in credit card debt with like 8gs a month in expenses. During the meeting the Hubers mark, doug and anna always preached they bought everything cash. Everyone one the team said they never financed anything. Financial freedom. Lol. Don't feel sorry for the hubers or any of the other bankrupt greedy hucksters. why did you guys finance so much if your financially free. Oh well. So they continuously lie. Like mark and doug are so smart Cause Orrin let them in on scam. shoulda saved ur money. Remember only 1% ever make any money. And of the 1% only 10% ever make more than 100$ a week. Might as well go to Casino or buy lottery tickets. Do your own research. So I don't think orrin and chris owe the Hubers or other bancrupt incompetents anything. They made millions and wasted it trying to be rich people. And they knew Orrin was a liar and dangerous and did nothing to stop him. Now they all sad cause they filed bancruptcy and lost their precious money. and the teams' demise is all because of Orrin's ego. He musta learned nothing from that bible. He sued quixtar so quixtar sued him. And he lost. He coulda just walked away. Or turned the other cheek. But he sued because he thought he was special and he destroyed his TEAM and assisted in bancrupting his cronies. You coulda just walked away. And in 2001 internet and info on net is not as availabLe as now so their lies were more hidden. and one day we will see Orrin, chris and tim on an episode of american greed. its all lies. Lies. Lies. I remember when TOD was bein hailed as like being on ground floor of microsoft. The plan was supposed to be the Selling of goods on the internet. That was the plan. The future. Internet commerce. They made it sound like all internet commerce was gonna go through TOD. But that isn't the plan. The plan is the super pyramid structure orrin created. he could be selling anything. The plan can be adjusted to sell dog toys. What liars. I love how all people who work jobs are the dumbest people on planet. looks like mark huber the prodigy is gonna have to get his resume ready. So 3 people are fianacially free. Tim, chris and Orrin. Everyone else is bancrupt. And those 3 are hated all over the country, and have to answer to god for using his word to scam the weak. Drug dealing is a better way to make cash than Life. 

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#5 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Now I'm gettin mad. And so is God

AUTHOR: E1wilson - ()

So I've been doin some more research on these guys I once thought as heros. And now it's a matter of principle. I did not lose that much cash when I was on Team of Destiny and it was a long time ago. See my bottom two posts below this for reference. The more I look into these guys I'm tellin you to run. All the life people getting scammed werent around for TOD. which was a bunch of lies and unfulfilled promises cause it's gone. And the whole plan of buying goods is gone and abandoned onto the next scam. These losers making me mad now. Orrin talking about Jesus christ on YouTube is laughable when 99% of members make no money. It's a fact see Forbes. On your yatcht with pastor "on the take" 99% fail how do you men of god sleep at night. Oh yea in your mansions. Why bring god into this guys? Only 1% make money. See forbes. But Orrin is selling hope and dreams. Hes selling you hope and marriage fixes on monthly payments. you guys are gonna possiBly burn in hell from what I've Been uncovering. letting 99% of your flock walk into meat grinder. Terrible people. And I swear Orrin was comparing himself to Jesus. cause Jesus had a yatcht and a mansion too. When TOD ended why didn't these guys ride off into sunset with their millions of dollars without ever having been busted for grey area operation and borderline illegal tactics? cause just like Gordon gecko, the wolf of Wall Street, madoff, etc they need more material stuff. Helicopters, boats, cars, houses, political power Etc. why would they need to keep scammin people. You got away with once so quit? Greed. Just like all of us who went on to TOD or life. Greed. we all wanna get rich quick or just get rich. Money will bring us happiness. We got what we deserved for being greedy by losing our money. orrin and chris will answer to higher power. Maybe the govt too. My only question is do these guys really think they are helping people? Does Orrin justify scamming so many by giving large sums to charity. Paying for his sins in cash. Or are they these ruthless soulless scammers? I'll take the ladder. Either way it's not good. God isn't gonna be happy for leading people into failure, false hope, and charging money to give his own advice. And the stupid skits they do when they parody people who bash TOD or life as toothless (((redacted))) red necks which at the time I thought was hilarious. Just another thing showing they think they are better than others. Cause those toothless rednecks were smarter than everyone else in the room cause they saved their money. And for no amount of money could i scam and lead people on like they do. I still thought after I left the TOD I may have made a mistake and still figured to see them all over tv one day as the next big thing. I was still brainwashed even as I had doubts and left the team. And the experience of college was priceless. it was college or another year of sad flint people sitting in a room who never went to college. And Orrin and chris are no dummies partly cause of college. If they didn't go to college they would have sold you the worst used car ever. Im pretty much retired at 34 granted I never had kids which helped. Me and my wife saved 500$ a month a piece for 8 years. Spent first two years putting large sums down on bills. Orrin would laugh at the amount we saved but we have all the time in the world now. We are financially free. Not to live a madoff lifestyle like Orrin but free to live comfortably and not have to worry about money. This was only possible without kids but they ain't for us all. Being organized, creating a budget, and not getting CCs is the way. Life is more monthly payments. If u need real life help go see a real priest For free. And don't be fooled if they parade a young person out there who made money off this crap. The hubers had no common sense. chris and Orrin painted them as geniuses but they worked with chris and Orrin daily and got all inside secrets and more importantly got in their leg of the business. so doug sat there and made cash cause he in right place at right time. He was 24 and never had a real job. This guy had no clue how world worked but he's gonna walk around all arrogant. You walked into something at right time and have no clue what it's like to work for a living. Orrin will call others incompetent cause they failed. Sorry we didn't have you to hold our hand through the process. And stop with God talk. He's angry you've led thousands astray. A true man of god and a real man period wouldn't let 99% knowingly walk into disappointment in failure. There is no way you can justify a 99% failure rate. Even if 1% Get rich. Or at least be honest when they first come in. I was just hoping for TOD to eventually be and extra 500-700$ a month. PLEASE!!!!! YOU WONT MAKE any money unless you become best friends with the top of the heap. RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#6 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Truth. Come on guys

AUTHOR: Concern511 - ()

I can't believe all the "Life" comments straight outta the meetings. Yes they do make good points. And chris and Orrin bash college and careers politely. Like "were not bashing college or careers but we are" And college and careers should be educated so individuals make the right choice. They will explain how they hated their jobs and working sucks. True statements. But dont sit on here and say you shouldn't critisize Life or whatever they call it now when they will critique every facet of your life. I don't think anyone ever makes money of this stuff other than the people at the top. So if you have connections and you get into one of Orrin or chris'a legs you can make some cash off the backs of others. No one makes money. They talk how it changed their life but made no money. And will one of these geniuses tell me where is "team of destiny" That was gonna last forever and change the way we bought things. We needed to get on the ground floor of the team of destiny. So it sounds like the team of destiny went outta business and they had to change name of a bad company with same exact business model. Change the name because people knew it was trash. Someone explain. At least team of destiny made good sense on paper. You purchase goods through the internet. But Life?? I get marriage an health info. Really? Team of destiny musta went down in flames. So Life doesn't work. Cause TOD failed, and this is same exact model. It will be good for those on top but no one else makes money. I never might someone on TOD that was even gettin like 1500$ a month. Your rich or your not. So Orrin was smart enough to scam and got chris in on it. These guys are very charismatic. and there's a lot of energy in the meetings. I was only in TOD. But run into these guys on the street they will act like they are Hollywood stars if you walk up on them and say hi. They prob nervous about the people theyve let down. But seriously you won't ever make money. And they living in mansions I've seen Orrins house. So some idiot will say but Life is about family and health. Money isn't everything they will say as they go home to their mansion. Then they will call everyone haters for calling them out. They will bust out the brainwashing facts that maybe true but have nothing to do with you ever makin any money ever with Life or TOD. If TOD was a success there woulda been people all over that made money. Where are those facts? How many ever made off TOD? Or Life? Where are the success stories besides 10 people. And on TOD if they wanted you to really make money the leadership woulda been organized better. We never had real help. We had 10-15 hungry young people that had no guidance and gave up. and they don't care cause a sucker born every minute. And no one was clear how you even make money. I feel bad for these people in life. I remember how excited I was In TOD. But TOD was a lie cause it's gone and didn't do what they said was gonna happen. And I know chris and Orrin prob dont make as much cause TOD was a way better concept than life. it makes me really mad. So go ahead and waste your money. Cause it 5 years life will be called something else and they will be peddling something different. It's just facts. Get out now like everyone else eventually does anyway. 

 

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#7 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Wanted to believe. What happened to team of destiny?

AUTHOR: E1wilson - ()

In 2001 I was introduced to individuals who brought me to "team of destiny" meetings led by Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady. They seemed so nice, caring and charismatic and explained how this was not a pyrimaid scheme. Team of destiny was gonna change the world through the internet and how we purchased goods. It was gonna be the future. I was 20 at the time and so excited. I went to meetings every week and was energized by there promises. They made lots of good points on business and life. but the team of destiny lacked leadership from the structure of the organization. Many became frustrated and left as I did in 2003 without making any cash but putting in lots of work. Team of destiny was not a traditional pyrimaid. It was a super pyrimaid. in late 2002 I saw chris, Orrin, tim and there wives with one of the Hubers at a gas station in grand blanc. They were admiring a man's humvee and asking him questions about it. After they were done I walked over introduced myself and said I was part of the "team". They completely ignored me and walked away. I don't even think chris or Orrin looked my way. One of the wives just gave me a stupid look. These were my heros. I looked up to these guys and believed all there we are just regular guys BS. In that moment I saw arrogant rich people that were more interested in material items than saying hello to someone. I still stayed on the team for a while longer and began realizing these guys are just scammers and they think they are better and smarter than everyone else. We were just suckers. And they way the leadership treated you when trying to grow your legs. No one really knew how the team worked but they are liars to say it wasn't a pyrimaid. So I left realizing they really didn't care. I was young and lost and wanted it to work. So I left. Fast forward 10 years later. I run into someone with a similar business plan i once heard before. I had a friend of a friend come over and explain the plan. I said quickly into his speel that this sounds like the team of destiny. Then he told me team of destiny was no more and that it's Life or whatever. Which sells a bunch of health garbage. When he tells me chris and Orrin are behind this I said where is the team? What happened to everyone's business and money? He then tell me about how quixtar the website that team of destiny used to sell their products was a rip off and they were trying to ripoff chris and Orrin. I was like these guys praised quixtar in 2001 and they were gonna change the world. Well team of destiny did nothing what they said except make people on the top a bunch of money. So I ask the guy if team of destiny didn't last how will this life crap last? It won't. How greedy do these guys need to be? How much money do you need? And that's all they talk about was money, buying islands and cars with cash and retiring young. One of these guys doug huber who was 24 at the time and claimed he was retired. I worked with him delivering pizza for cottage inn which he needed the job for the W-2 cause he never worked. He was supposedly retired off team of destiny. So you could get rich. But Doug's brother was chris Brady's protege so if you were close to the top you could make cash off others backs. Doug had no common sense. Smart guy but no common sense arrogant no it all. 

So the team of destiny did teach me some valuable lessons. About trust and common sense. And real hard work. I went back to college and retired at 34. Which I was able to do with a modest lifestyle. Didn't buy any islands but thanks for lessons on liars. I dont take anything for granted and am glad I didn't end up like a bunch of arrogant scammers that think they are better and smarter than all. run from this Life crap. It will waste 2 years of your life before you realize it's a waste. 

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#8 UPDATE Employee

A "Pyramid". Try this angle please.

AUTHOR: Baldylocks - ()

Recently I have been attending Life Leadership meetings and surrounding myself with people involved in the business. They are working hard and seeing results based on their efforts. I am, at this point, performing my "due dilgence, hence my arrival to this site and my want to offer my personal experience. These are my thoughts based on what I have taken away from recent involvement.

1) First of all, I believe the biggest "Pyramid Scheme" in America is working for anyone else than myself. Depending upon the size of the organization with which I've been employed, it all starts with one person at the top, the CEO. And from that point it shapes a perfect Pyramid in the truest sense; C-Level V.P.s, Managers and the largest population and foundation of the pyramid, Worker Bees. I have spent decades of my life earning others money, sometimes losing my job due to "down-sizing", the economy and, most disturbing, having absolutely no control over the outcome of my drive, ambitions or dreams within that organization. Budget cuts, new technology, new bosses not liking me for whatever reason, new P.R. policies, reorganiztations, back-stabbing, office politics, I've endured all of it because I have been truly "BRAIN-WASHED" by traditional and now completely outdated systems of making a living and pursuing my American Dream.

2) Life Leadership - I have NEVER once been asked, coerced, pressured, or otherwise to "buy more stuff" or anything outside of my comfort level. In fact it has been the complete opposite. They too have entered with trepidation, gathering intel. The people that introduced this to me have told me not to put my eggs in one basket, to keep living my life as is and that IF (and only IF) I see results ($ in my checking account), then perhaps consider it. That's where I am.

3) So far, I have attended less than 10 meetings. They have been held in rooms filled with people wanting that American Dream and the belief that "There MUST be a better way!" These are people (like myself) who have spent countless hours away from family & loved ones in exchange for scrapping to assemble a Rainy Day Fund only to have more rainy days than funds. Traditional JOBS are not the way I want to make money in modern day America. You Tube alone is proof of this. But the Pyramid? It's there too. The CEO of Google is awaiting my Channel and the clicks and shares and likes. But I find it amazingly exciting to see even teenagers making great money from the comfort of their home in front of a laptop. Point being, I have and will forever remain OPEN-MINDED about alternatives to the J-O-Bs that have left me empty, exhausted, stressed, sleepless, angry, the source of relationship breaks and the worst proverbial Cherry On Top... still in debt. 

4) I want to surround myself with creative, positive dreamers and hard-workers. I have found that with Life Leadership so far, but I'm not putting all my eggs in the basket as advised by my friends who are already making money with LL. I have seen their bank deposits per my due-diigence request and their eagerness to share this confidential information. Again, I'm doing my homework. I found this page and simply needed to share my experience so far. 

5) I have never believed in getting rich overnight, or in six months or a year or even 10! Aside from my high-earning corporate friends, I have seen far greater financial gain happen countless times to others all around me via entrepreneurship and Multi-Level Marketing companies... Pyramids. All of these requiring lot of hard work and money. Anyone seeking self-employment, prepare to have "Overhead." I understand that reality and am open to it in the name of working for myself. I do want the lowest overhead start-up costs possible. LL is ridicuously inexpensive compared to other businesses and franchises I have seen. 

6) I have been involved in other MLMs, but I've quit after a few months because I haven't seen the return I (personally) wanted - essentially to get rich over night. On the other side, I am still receiving small checks from one I stopped working over 10 years ago. Additionally, I'm actually seeing TV commercials for Amway... the original "Pyramid." Now, I can choose to look at a company started 56 years ago as a Pyramid scheme or a $12 billion/year success story. Regardless, it's still here. Meanwhile I've seen more large corporate buy-outs and job loss due to the other Pyramid scheme that doesn't even want to see my resume. 

7) There will always be "haters" or people shooting down ideas. It's a good thing when done without malice. Checks and balances. But there will ALSO always be people like myself that want to say "Hmm.. interesting... what's the opportunity? What's in it for me and my family?" If I for one second feel I've taken advantage of anyone I'd be my own worst hater. It's just not in my ethical fiber. Bank of America? What's in their Employee Handbook fine print? I don't care for P.T. Barnum's famous line; "There's a sucker born every minute." Rather, I dig Abraham Lincoln's: "I don't like that man. I must get to know him better." I want to look for commonalities, not differences.

These are my personal thoughts and experiences. And please trust this stranger: I'm not trying to sell anyone on anything, I'm not even certain Life Leadership is for me at this point. I just want to put a fist in the air for an ALTERNATIVE to traditional corporate Pyramids.

This is a good site, it's part of the American Dream. It's been created with hard work, good intention and it's brought people together with different opinions. Rock and roll. 

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#9 UPDATE Employee

for the truth

AUTHOR: JJ_101 - ()

I have been with with this company for many years. The truth is "LIFE" is different than anything I've ever done. The structure set up is made for direct sales/business building (which neither are easy). It takes work for sure, but well worth it. It's funny how so many expect something for nothing and when they fall, they refuse to get back up. This is not a get rich quick scheme, it takes work and dedication (which is why people are mad).  If you're on this site or any other site complaining, you obviously gave up and are venting (misery loves company and social networks (I know you can think of a few)). "LIFE" is truly an amazing group of people who form a network to improve society. "Success" is easier to obtain in numbers (and success isn't always about money..For many people it can be in many areas such as family, friends, faith, freedom, finances, fun, fitness, or following).  Many people might think $50 is a great price to save their mariage (if it works, I call it success). Information and guidance in these 8 F's (by proven successful people in the correct areas that u want to study, not by people who just wanted to write a book and have no success in life with the subjects in question) IS our Product (and with a "PRODUCT", the word "PYRAMID" is incorrect by definition). Yes, you can build a business by helping others or you can choose to not do anything and consume the products to be a better person. That choice is up to you. Focused work in "LIFE" can and will reap rewards. Good luck people. I hope you find your way.

To set it straight about some strugles...

LIFE owners have been through a lot of hard times to bring this opportunity to us. The truth of the owner's strugles have been a rough road and the TRUE detailes can be found here:

https://lifeteamtruth.wordpress.com/page/3/

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#10 Consumer Comment

Just let the wolves have their sheep?

AUTHOR: anticlimatic - ()

"And the people who are wanting to trash LIFE, why are you taking valuble time out of your life to do it? What is the point. Just let people do their thing. I don't understand why we can't all just get along and not try to kill each other. (Yes I understand I am contradicting myself, but at least I'm acknowledging it. So back off.)"

 

People who have complaints about the Life business aren't just bored and pulling them out of thin air. They have the complaints because their lives have been impacted by the business in a negative way. That's how consumer reports work; how companies are decisions in general are vetted. But that doesn't matter, because:

 

"One of the qualities that LIFE teaches is to not acknowledge the critics. If someone criticizes you, just smile like nothing even happened."

 

I try this every time I get pulled over by the police for speeding, but try as I may to ignore any external critiquing of my behaviour, reality has a way of beating you over the head eventually (or was that a baton?). The police at least kick your butt within seconds of trying to pull the head-in-sand ostrich maneuver, but the entire structure of Life is set up to endow it's victims with something more like cancer: delaying the enevitable reality crush as long as possible so as to milk as much money from its members, because clearly:

 

"When I say someone is "the right kind of person," I mean this: In Life Leadership, we look for four qualities in a person. You must be honest, teachable, ambitious, and LOOKING. If someone isn't looking for an opportunity, then we're not going to force them. But how do we know unless we ask? That's why we like to sit down with people."

 

The only people Life is interested are people who are easy marks, gullible, and desperate. Classic cult fodder. One of my closest friends got sucked into this mire, and after a single conversation we had about it, wherein I expressed very light hearted concerns regarding the company in a very non-judgemental or 'this is what you should do' tone-- basically encouraging her to think for herself about it and come to her own conclusions, she responded with a laundry list of platitudes, and we haven't really talked much since. She struggles from one dead end job to the next, while she invests all of her spare time (that could be used for an ACTUAL education) on sinking most of that hard earned money into Team supplies. She was bright, full of potential, and impressionable, and Team molded her into a shadow of her former self-- like a poverty edition stepford wife.

I don't blame Team for the decisions people make, I just find it sad and utterly tasteless how thoroughly greed can corrupt someone without their even realizing it.

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#11 Consumer Comment

LIfe is REAL!!

AUTHOR: Plumber - ()

To those Nay sayer...Life WORKS!!!  There is NO better Company out there today. It is changing lives around the world..  Thank You Chris And Orin for NOT listening to the people who said you couldnt do it.  Now they have alot of EGG on there face.. Keep up your great work.. 

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#12 REBUTTAL Owner of company

What Is Going On Here?

AUTHOR: R.Troy - ()

I was reading through here for a while and I think all of you people are just crazy. The people that are a part of the company are not portraying it right. And the people talking trash are really good at talking trash. I just don't see what the point is. 

To the people that are apart of LIFE, just stop talking about it. You shouldn't even be trying to start an argument. And the people who are wanting to trash LIFE, why are you taking valuble time out of your life to do it? What is the point. Just let people do their thing. I don't understand why we can't all just get along and not try to kill each other. (Yes I understand I am contradicting myself, but at least I'm acknowledging it. So back off.)

One of the qualities that LIFE teaches is to not acknowledge the critics. If someone criticizes you, just smile like nothing even happened. 

A good majority of the people that talk trash about LIFE Leadership either haven't tried it, weren't the right kind of person, or didn't do it correctly. I have first hand experience with this company. I have been involved for 4 years and I'm only 17. No, I am not signed up, but I have been learning from the information. I read here that yes, you can go out and buy your own self help material, but not everyone has the vehicle to use it.

When I say someone is "the right kind of person," I mean this: In Life Leadership, we look for four qualities in a person. You must be honest, teachable, ambitious, and LOOKING. If someone isn't looking for an opportunity, then we're not going to force them. But how do we know unless we ask? That's why we like to sit down with people.  

The LIFE Leadership opportunity is not a get quick rich scheme, nor is it a pyramid scheme. You will need to do a lot of work in order to get where you want to go, but I promise it's worth it. I have seen it first hand work miracles in peoples lives. 

Whoever this Tex guy is, I saw that you have never joined LIFE. So how can you talk about it when you don't even know what you're talking about. "Oh man, I did all this research and I read about this lawsuit with Orrin and boy did I learn a ton." Okay, well When I'm filthy rich and retired when I'm 22, then tell me it doesn't work. 

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#13 UPDATE Employee ..inside information

Haven't made a Penny

AUTHOR: ernestlyhonest - ()

Hi I see all the messages about Life and Orrin Woodward. I've been in Life a little over a year. this is my completely honest experience with the company. They first approached me after meeting me randomly at my job as a cashier. they came to my house and waited over an hour because I'd forgotten about the appointment. I was working multiple jobs, and knew i still wasn't making enough to provide for my family. they sat down and asked my wife and I about what i did, who i was, why we'd moved to Minnesota, etc. after it came out that we wanted to start fresh due to marital and financial problems, they quickly went through the "pitch" which basically consist of I've been taught to think that hard work and school was the answer to wealth and asking me how that worked out. they shared it hadn't worked for them either, but that every wealthy person there has ever been didn't use their time to make money. they clarifed that it doesn't take continous time to make continous money (investing, franchise owners, etc). that what it took was a system or "Pipeline" (think water, oil, etc). That after the work was done to learn how to build and install one, water (money) would flow continously). They were right, the key to wealth is to figure out how to make income all the time, even when sleeping. They asked if a job ANYWHERE I could think of would ever provide me a way to do that? A franchise was needed. Then they gave my wife and I a marital pack (cd's of talks by people $40 was the cost to own it but they gave it to us free). They said their finished product was a better me, helping people change their thinking with world class information and finding the will to do the hard work of changing themselves. Now let's get into how it's gone, starting with the bad.

Not once during my entire time working with Life have I done what they suggested if I wanted to treat it like a Business. I've gone to most of the meetings, and paid to have access to all the talks, CD'S and seminars. I spent time away from home "building" when i have a wife and newly three kids and only ever got one person personally put on my team. My upline has put everyone I've every had for any length of time onto my team. The main two couples that consist of my upline include a morgage specialist and two engineers, one of them an Aerospace engineer (yes... a Rocket scientist). I went through some very hard times and for awhile couldn't afford to keep up my monthly subscriptions, all while basically being a customer, and listening and reading. This is where I can't help but change it to good. The Lifers as I think of them, have helped me with three cars, Including coming to pick me and my pregnant wife up from another state when I broke down 4 1/2 hours away on a work day. They've made me apart of their church home, lives, and family even when I couldn't afford to pay to stay in the business and did nothing to help build the community. They've given me now ten books free that have profoundly changed me. I'm still married today because of that information (7 years as of last week) and who I am is so noticable that even though I'm still financially strained, my in-laws (whose relationship with me was more volitle two years ago than it was at the beginning (police were involved) and to begin with, they didn't even come to the wedding) have seen something that has recently done the impossible, they've made me their Son. I have more Faith in every sense because of Life. What's success really mean? I stopped caring about money again and started caring about Purpose.   Money will come, I'm now convinced, but what would you pay to save your marriage... to save your life and and forever change the lives of your children? I've found I would glad pay about $2,000 while never treating the ability to help others like that as a career.

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#14 Consumer Comment

Interesting

AUTHOR: PremierMan - ()

As I read some of the comments on how evil Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady, etc., are I noticed that there were no comments about the products - only the marketing system.  Typically, a person only complains about a system when they have not been successful (for whatever reason - usually because they didn't do the things necessary to be successful).  In the past 30 years I've read much of the material that they have available.  It's solid.  As far as the system, comments are made that it's a "pyramid" but evidently they have no clue what a "pyramid" is.  A true "pyramid" is where people are deceived into believing that by giving money, they will make more money; however, no wealth has been created, no product has been sold, no investment has been made, and no service has been provided.  This is not the case with LIFE, Amway (Quixtar), Excel, Zija, and many other legitimate businesses.  Although you may have personal opinions about the products the system does not qualify as a "pyramid".  The Social Security system is the biggest Ponzi scheme there has ever been and you don't mention it.  Imagine the amount of money you have "invested" in this unsustainable system.

I own a successful consulting business and can tell you that the principles taught in the products that LIFE sells are essential for continued success in life and the marketplace.  It seems that the general population either never knew these principles or have forgotten them.  Again, most of the complaining comes either from people who have never been involved in owning a business or have not put forth the effort it takes to be successful. 

 

 

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#15 General Comment

Best Company around

AUTHOR: fleetaid - ()

To whom it may concern:

My involvement with the Life business, the co-founders, and the program has been nothing short of incredible.  I have been a conventional business owner for 17 years and worked in the big 3 for 13 years and can now compare both of these experiences with my experience in the Life business.  I have found that those who say its a something for nothing business, a pyramid, and many other things just have no experience with business.  The training I have received, the people who are the leaders, and the founders all have incredible integrity and far outshine anything I have ever found for making money and a life.  Just thought I would share.

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#16 Consumer Comment

Very much a pyramid scheme

AUTHOR: Wis55555555 - ()

Was invited to one of these meetings under very much the same context.Thought I was going to help advise my friend on a "business plan" he had been working on. After the first hour they did not clearly state what they sold, who is in this "pipeline", how you get compensated or anything. They said dangerous things like. Don't you want to make more money and work less? Then giving an example of people working hard and getting paying for it then people building a "pipeline" and then not having to work. After that they brought up an attractive woman and she said "how sexy her husband was to be a member of life and work hard to improve himself." ....But I thought you didn't have to work?.... This was undoubtably done to make the couples in the room as well as single males to say."I want a wife like that, sign me up!" only 89.99 and you can start your first pipeline. Which consist of selling their self help products or getting more members to sign up. Then you will recieve part of that profit in a check down the road as the pyramid scheme works through. To me it seems to be very dangerous because of the victims choosen. People having family, relationship, financial, or faith issues can all find their answers at Life.... These are people going through hardships that are more likely to be influenced by these criminals. Think of this... For 89.99 I could go to Barnes and Nobel and get many many books by more talented writers which have public reviews from peers...And if you find something good, just tell a friend if it's your place to do so. It's plain and simple a pryamid scheme and I can see how the author claims a cult as well... Sutle but noticeable signs of cultism 

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#17 Consumer Comment

Jerry Chen, with an "e," NOT Chin - LOL

AUTHOR: Tex - ()

This is your "One example":

5 Steps To Raking In Multiple 5-Figures MONTHLY Incomeby Jerry Chen1 inShareHere is the replay of the call from March 27th. This is where I shared the EXACT 5-step formula which I applied to bring in $24576.06 as of March 26th. Not only will you learn the exact, never-fail formula that produced 8 distinctively different 6-figure and multiple 6-figure businesses since 1997 You can also steal [...] ---> I don't why you are so fascinated with Jerry Chen - with an "e," unlike your comment title. The original question, although poorly worded, was to name somebody in LIFE who used to be involved with Amway, and I have my answer: Orrin (with an "i" not an "e" - LOL) Woodward the Chris Brady, among other high level LIFEers. 

Talk about a rip off!! 
NOTHING about Amway.
NOTHING about Team.
NOTHING about Life.
NOTHING  true about anything you say. ---> I have no idea what you're trying to say. LOL

As I see it, the only reason you don't get sued for slander or libel is that you're not worth the Attorney fees! ---> WRONG. The reason I don't get sued for slander or libel is I tell the facts and Texas has a very strong anti-SLAPP law, so a frivolous lawsuit against me would pay for my attorney fees, as well as losing the lawsuit. 

Even If I or Orren or anyone won, you have no assets! ---> That's the point, Orrin (with an "i" not an "e" - LOL) or anyone else would lose, and pay my attorney fees as well. 

You have no following. ---> I'm not looking for a "following," I'm looking to put an end to the ATS.

Your have no credibility. ---> The facts and solid logic provide me all the credibility I need. 

I have a business to build so don't expect me to respond anymore. ---> I don't expect you to respond because you just lost the argument. LOL

You've wasted enough of my time already. ---> Only you can waste your time, I didn't force you to post your garbage here. LOL

Last thought: I PITTY the poor fool that believes you. ---> Not even close to the last thought: I PITY (with one "T" - LOL) any poor fool that knows you. LOL
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#18 Consumer Comment

Jerry Chin - I Googled it!

AUTHOR: BobSanders49 - ()

This is your "One example":

5 Steps To Raking In Multiple 5-Figures MONTHLY Incomeby Jerry Chen1 inShareHere is the replay of the call from March 27th. This is where I shared the EXACT 5-step formula which I applied to bring in $24576.06 as of March 26th. Not only will you learn the exact, never-fail formula that produced 8 distinctively different 6-figure and multiple 6-figure businesses since 1997 You can also steal [...]

Talk about a rip off!!
NOTHING about Amway.
NOTHING about Team.
NOTHING about Life.
NOTHING  true about anything you say.

As I see it, the only reason you don't get sued for slander or libel is that you're not worth the Attorney fees! Even If I or Orren or anyone won, you have no assets!
You have no following.
Your have no credibility.

I have a business to build so don't expect me to respond anymore.
You've wasted enough of my time already.
Last thought: I PITTY the poor fool that believes you.
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#19 Consumer Comment

Way to Go, Plano!

AUTHOR: Tex - ()

Looks like the person showing you the marketing plan got it backwards: http://timmarks.com/blog/tag/define-learn-do/ Just as well. As my first post on this thread shows, LIFE is run by well known scam artists.
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#20 Consumer Comment

Idiots Never Stop Being Idiotic

AUTHOR: Tex - ()

As previously stated, it was a typo. ---> You said "excuse the typo," but then didn't fix it. LOL

Talk about reading comprehension. ---> Yes, indeed. LOL

Here: "Name one person that was in Amway that is in LIFE". ---> Orrin Woodward. Chris Brady. And several other of their minions that I won't research for you. LOL

All better, kiddo? ---> Of course, and now you have your answer. LOL

You sound like a typical Whorn! ---> You type like a typical IDIOT! LOL

When you can produce documented evidence of your claim, then someone may take you seriously. ---> Here's Orrin's lawsuits with Amway (called Quixtar at that time, but he was with Amway even before they used the name Quixtar from 1999-2009): http://dockets.justia.com/search?q=Orrin+A.+Woodward When you can form coherent sentences, I won't take you seriously, but at least I will be able to understand what you're trying to say. LOL

All I'm seeing is "I joined LIFE, waited for money, did no work, received no money and I'm mad". ---> You see wrong. I never joined LIFE. You are powerfully stupid. LOL

Hmmm, maybe you're an Aggie. ---> I'm not, but that is immaterial. LOL

That would explain a bit more. ---> I've already explained "a bit more." LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL.... 
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#21 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Plano-TX

AUTHOR: Dagan09 - ()

I'm glad there's no idiot from Plano, TX who didn't fall for LIFE. I'm 22 and some guy named David came to my work secretly looking for people looking for a "business opportunity" he was very vague with his "presentation" about LIFE when I was at work..so vague I didn't even know why he wanted to meet me up at a McDonalds 10 miles out of my way from home. Once I told him a little about me (which was a complete waste of my time, he didn't care - just wanted to come off that way) Anyways he pulls out this crinkled up paper to demonstrate how the ESBI, content, commerce, community etc works. Basically talked about how businesses like DELL, Joe Wieder, McDonalds, United Health Care, Schools, Churches etc operates and how LIFE uses a reverse process..which would only make sense to an idiot. It is illogical to Do, Learn and Define as in terms of a career path. In specific order Michael Dell didn't (Do) create a PC and (Learn) Learn how to make one and then claims himself to be a successful inventor (Define). Michael Dell wanted to invent something for everyone to have access to the world wide web, and obviously to drive profit for his company - ultimately becoming a successful man (Define) So he came up with an action plan, and learned to execute his invention to distribute to consumers (Learn) and then he executed (Do). You have to create a goal for yourself (what do you want to be) when you decide - you obviously have to get through stepping stones to learn how to be what you want to be and then you execute it. Not reverse, you're just setting yourself up for failure. About an hour and a half later after speaking with david, his mentor Adam Arnold and Doug joined the "meeting", what "successful" company does that to a complete stranger (me) at a McDonalds in the slums of Garland, TX? Yes, they basically told me the same thing. Once they talked about their  "Product" and people you have to get on your "team" I automatically lost interest, although being good at hiding my emotions I showed otherwise. They wanted me to pay $100.00 for some DVD's and Books (useful information im sure) I could read off-line, or get from a cheaper source..hell you can do it how the majority of the world has been doing it - Education (school). But they asked me how many people do I know that works less and gets paid more - EASY, my friends Dad own's the Allegro apartments in Addison (even he recommends going to school, he doesn't meet up with people at a mcdonalds in the slums for a meeting) im sure if he did he'd be d**n sure to buy them food, or because he's hungry. He didn't own something because of his knowledge through something like LIFE he went to school, and doesn't regret it. These guys said to have the life i want is to be associated with someone who has the similar lifestyle I want, OBVIOUSLY - so, why they do I need to buy LIFE's $100.00 product to get that kind of knowledge when I can just be my friend's Dad's pupil? Anyways. LIFE is basically a bunch of brainwashed slags getting their little workers (Dave, Adam and Doug) to sell their books and dvd's to a person like me and make me feel that I am on their level but really I'm just another person they're trying to fool. The MOST successful people did not use resources like LIFE. They all came up with a strong approach, and executed it on their own. If that's how they did it, I rather not rely on a $100.00 product to show me how - Only a non-methodological thinking person would go that path
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#22 Consumer Comment

Butthurt Tex...

AUTHOR: Nemesis - ()

As previously stated, it was a typo. Talk about reading comprehension. Here: "Name one person that was in Amway that is in LIFE". All better, kiddo? You sound like a typical Whorn! 
When you can produce documented evidence of your claim, then someone may take you seriously.

All I'm seeing is "I joined LIFE, waited for money, did no work, received no money and I'm mad".
Hmmm, maybe you're an Aggie. That would explain a bit more.
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL.... 
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#23 Consumer Comment

Nemesis Joins the Stupid Club

AUTHOR: Tex - ()

Name one person that in Amway that is in LIFE? ---> Even a 12 year old knows this is not a coherent question. LOL... If I'm 12, that makes you 2! LOL

And by the way, the original question didn't come from me, it came from Bob, and I already answered it. Try reading for comprehension next time. Oops, I "forgot," you're only 2! LOL

I'll bet you're too scared for a phone call too, right? But then again, you're probably too young AND stupid to dial a number. LOL
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#24 Consumer Comment

Excuse the typo...

AUTHOR: Nemesis - ()

LOL<<<<< What are you 12?

You asked, I supplied the answer. Jerry Chen, just google his name, moron!
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#25 Consumer Comment

Response to 2 Idiots

AUTHOR: Tex - ()

Johnson 321,

Thank you again for proving my point. ---> You don't have a point. I have all the facts and logic, you have provided NOTHING. LOL

I don't need to give examples that can clearly be seen. ---> That's because you have no examples to give. LOL

You've given me plenty of laughs today, thank you very much!! ---> Thank YOU for demonstrating to the world how stupid you are! LOL 

I truly hope you're not holding your breath for a phone call, because childish games like that don't work. You're a waste of time tex. ---> No, I was pretty sure you are too scared to call. LOL

Nemesis (hardly, LOL),

Name one person that in Amway that is in LIFE? ---> Try constructing a coherent sentence next time. What are you trying to say? LOL

Jerry Chen... Google it! ---> All I found was a link talking about Jerry fawning over Orrin, google "amthrax orrin on learning through failure" LOL
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#26 Consumer Comment

Name one, you say?

AUTHOR: Nemesis - ()

Name one person that in Amway that is in LIFE?

Jerry Chen... Google it!
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#27 General Comment

True Comedian Tex!

AUTHOR: Johnson321 - ()

Thank you again for proving my point. I don't need to give examples that can clearly be seen. You've given me plenty of laughs today, thank you very much!!  I truly hope you're not holding your breath for a phone call, because childish games like that don't work. You're a waste of time tex.
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#28 Consumer Comment

Johnson321 is the IDIOT

AUTHOR: Tex - ()

After reading all of this and seeing both sides of the story, I have realized that you are clearly losing this argument by not fully supporting your claims. ---> There are numerous facts in my earlier comments, just as there are on my blog, stoptheamwaytoolscam.wordpress.com. Try reading for comprehension next time. Better yet, I would be happy to talk with you on the phone sometime, instructions for doing so are also on my blog, if you are "man" enough to take the challenge. I will be the one NOT holding my breath. LOL

Maybe you're an emotional guy when you argue and can't think clearly, but some of the things you have accused Bob of doing, you have done yourself. ---> Maybe you're a stupid guy when you argue and can't type clearly, but you need to give at least a single example of "some of the things you have accused Bob of doing, you have done yourself." LOL

I've learned something about idiots though, it's pointless arguing with them because they can't see that they're being an idiot because they're too much of an idiot to realize it. ---> Look in the mirror, and you'll see the same image that is in my dictionary for an idiot. LOL

Unless they can step back, stop flapping their gums, and take an honest look at themselves, it's a waste of time. ---> You still haven't said a single thing of substance, perhaps on your next post? LOL

Just wanted to throw that out there for anybody else reading. ---> Just wanted to throw up after reading your tripe. LOL

Thank you, and goodnight. ---> And good morning, how about that phone call? However, just because you have proven yourself to be an idiot, the number can be found here, item #3: (((link redacted))) But I'll bet you're too scared to set up the call. LOL

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
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#29 General Comment

Tex-Plano, You're an idiot

AUTHOR: Johnson321 - ()

After reading all of this and seeing both sides of the story, I have realized that you are clearly losing this argument by not fully supporting your claims. Maybe you're an emotional guy when you argue and can't think clearly, but some of the things you have accused Bob of doing, you have done yourself. I've learned something about idiots though, it's pointless arguing with them because they can't see that they're being an idiot because they're too much of an idiot to realize it. Unless they can step back, stop flapping their gums, and take an honest look at themselves, it's a waste of time. Just wanted to throw that out there for anybody else reading.

Thank you, and goodnight.
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#30 Consumer Comment

Mother Woodward

AUTHOR: Tex - (USA)

Questions Orrin's mother should ask him, but I don't know if she's still around, so I'll ask them....anyway.

Orrin, why did you promote the Amway/Quixtar business for several years and then on your way out, try to accuse them of being a pyramid scheme? Orrin claimed in the lawsuit that only recently Amway product prices were too high, but Amway prices have always been high compared to regular stores. Of course, Orrin "fixed" this problem when he did a "benchmark study" like he won an award for when he was in the auto industry, and determined his advertised "Walmart on the internet" would be $45/bottle MonaVie juice! Come over here son, and your daddy will put you over his knee and give you a few welts on your butt with his belt.

Orrin, in that same lawsuit, why did you you disclose the confidential information that only 3.4% of the volume in North America is from retailing? By the way, I believe even that incredibly low number is inflated, as I and many others were taught how to make personal volume count as retail volume on the computer. Come over here son, and let your daddy give you a few more welts on your butt with his belt.

Good luck with LIFE, Bob. LOL


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#31 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Mother Teresa

AUTHOR: BobSanders49 - (United States of America)

I have already wasted way too much time on this. This is my last word.

Mother Teresa's Anyway Poem

People are often unreasonable, illogical and self centered;
Forgive them anyway.
If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.
If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.
If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway.
If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you've got anyway.
You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and your God;
It was never between you and them anyway.
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#32 Consumer Comment

Not Personal At All

AUTHOR: Tex - (USA)

OK, so now I'm not only an Idiot, now I'm a Hell bound Liar, according to you. ---> You asked for a better alternative to LIFE's personal development, and I gave it to you, don't rip off others and instead go to church. Ever hear of the 10 Commandments, Bob? See #9 here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_shall_not_bear_false_witness_against_your_neighbor and understand Orrin and the rest of the LCKs leaving out the profit from the tools is lying by omission. God doesn't like that very much, wouldn't you agree, Bob?

How Many people, other than me or you would follow you across the street, let alone into any financial or business transaction? Time will tell. ---> That's not the issue, Bob. The issue is the LCKs (Lying, Cowardly, "Kingpins"). Get that, Bob?  

1. ---> So do all the other lying Amway upline, Bob. This is the same tripe repeated by the hundreds of Diamonds for the past several decades. If you read Amthrax, you will find several stories from former high level people who used to be in Orrin's group that prove it is NOT worth it. 

Show me ONE person in Amway who is on the TEAM! Just one! 
Name ONE person on the team with ANY connection to Amway. Just One!!! ---> Many of the LIFE "leaders" started with Amway, and got kicked out, Bob. Amway is part of the Amway Tool Scam RICO fraud, so that makes TEAM/LIFE lower than a snake's belly, Bob.

2. Every Day Orren and Chris get hundreds of communications from people thanking them for the life changing information LIFE provides. You obviously have a personal hatred of Orren so you can't/won't see it. To everyone else, just listen to the letters to Chris: judges. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8mdxUfaT2t5WWt5Q2FGR3M2bzQ/edit?usp=sharing ---> I'll bet some of those documents were written or could have been written by people on Amthrax who worshipped Orrin just like those people and ended up getting hosed, Bob. 

3. You say: They teach everybody to be "nice" while they lie through their teeth. If you can't understand that, perhaps the "Idiot" label is accurate. 

To everyone else: Did he make his point or did he just throw more mud? If I truly am an Idiot and I succeed in creating more income in a month than I did in a year, what does that say about your ability to succeed? ---> I made the point it is fake "niceness" and experienced it personally, Bob. Ripping other people off is not success, Bob. At least not in my book, Bob.

You have challenged me to quit. To what? What do you have? Let all the readers read and discern between negative nothing and positive success. Do not expect any further argument as I am too busy building my LIFE business.
I wish you well. ---> Quit to nothing and you'll be far ahead. Join the rest of us to shut down Amway's Tool Scam and similar scams, such as LIFE, and you'll be helping your fellow man/woman, Bob. That is positive success over negative ripoff schemes. I don't expect you to reply because you lack the facts, Bob. I wish you................WAKE UP!!! LOL
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#33 Consumer Comment

Rebuttal to the BS

AUTHOR: Tex - (USA)

1. Your reply of "big deal" to the money back guarantee is hardly a rebuttal. ---> A scam with a 30 day money back guarantee is not a big deal, Bob.

2.The Amthnrax site said nothing I could find about anyone loosing their business. Who are these "several people"? How can you accuse Orren of lying when he clearly states that is going to take some serious hard work to build the LIFE business. Why all the whining and crying? You offered NOTHING to rebut the fact that "me-you-6-4-2" is very different from "10 and 5". ---> First of all, it's "losing," not "loosing." LOL  Until today, it would be difficult to point you in the right direction, because I find the Amthrax site to be very disorganized. However, today they made a change and you can find some of the stories here: http://amthrax.wordpress.com/tag/reader-story/ Imagine how many more stories there are from people who don't know this site exists, they have posted on other sites, or they have simply shrunk away from this so-called "business." The "serious work" from Orrin is a cover, to convince you it will be YOUR fault if you don't succeed and to keep you in as long as possible. I told you there are several of the above stories who built the 10 and 5 depth legs, built very large organizations, and were shoved aside. While there are some differences in the dynamics of these approaches, the bottom line is the LCKs clean up on the tools. Orrin did it at Amway, then Quixtar, then MV, then Team of Destiny, then TEAM, then Life, etc. Same tune different name, Bob.

3. OK, I'm an idiot! So, when I succeed you must concede that even an idiot can be successful in LIFE! ---> No argument from me. I'll concede you will be an idiot if you succeed at LIFE because you will be ripping off your downline, Bob.

4. I am researching that as I write. I'll have to get back to you. I have heard the one of the Wisconsin Universities is using "Launching a Leadership Revolution" and that the "Mental Fitness Challenge" is used in Corporations. I challenge you to sign up for the 7-day free trial and have your "friends" evaluate you for your leadership skills. Are you afraid of what the results may be? (access it at slc-leadership.info) ---> By your previous statement, "Many top Corporations and Major Universities are currently using the LIFE products," I figured you could list a few off the top of your head. Kool-aid, anyone? What's YOUR favorite flavor, Bob? The stuff that comes out of a bull's behind? LOL

5. The refund policy extends to the Seminars and Conventions. Does John Maxwell, Stephen Covey, Anthony Robbins or anyone else, offer refunds for their multi-thousand dollar meetings? Or, are you saying that the advanced Seminars should be open and free? Who does that? ---> Do you realize that if you ever asked for a refund you would never get one teeny tiny bit of help for the rest of your natural life, Bob? LOL

6. Again, you have failed to be specific about what Orren said that is a lie. ---> Orrin lies every time he shows how much you can make from the LIFE products yet doesn't talk about how much the top dogs make from the LIFE (formerly TEAM) training materials. This is one aspect I actually liked about Orrin when he was in Amway, he was in favor of openly discussing how much money was made from tools compared to Amway, and he stated on his blog it was 4-5 times more than he made from Amway. That blog was taken down, probably as a result of an agreement he had with Amway after they won a $12 million judgement from him, Bob. But the fact remains former high level TEAM members were not allowed to keep a copy of the contract that they were required to sign on the spot and they didn't have a clue where the money came from, Bob. 

7. Glad you asked!!! How much money do I make? In October I got a check for $70.50. The real question is: what did I do to earn it? NOTHING! absolutely nothing! Easton, Rob and Manase put over 40 people in my business while I was busy "holding my spot". Who does that??? ---> And how much overhead did you have? Do you know what overhead is, Bob? I'll bet your "absolutely nothing" amounted to quite a bit more than $70.50, Bob.

Tex, it is "sun at noon day" obvious that you despise anything to do with Leadership or Self Improvement. I have asked you in private emails what you have that puts money in my pocket. All I have received from you is insult and polemic. OK, so be it. Let the reader be the judge. ---> It's obvious you're wrong again, Bob. I am okay with both leadership and self improvement, I have an issue with RICO fraud and liars, Bob. I think not taking money out of other peoples' pockets is better than taking it out, Bob. You've received a LOT more from me than insult and polemic, you have received facts and logic, Bob. Can you handle those? No.

Just last February 5th, Chris Brady came to Salt Lake City. I was one of the few invited to dine with him before the Open at the Airport Hilton. We were talking and as the food came, he asked us all to join him on a blessing on the food. That may not impress you but is was very impressive to me. You just can't fake that kind of sincerity in a prayer. Mock on if you will, but for my money Chris Brady is a real Christian. ---> Then he fooled you again. Do you know the truth behind why Orrin's orignal preacher wants nothing to do with Orrin, Chris, LIFE, etc., Bob? I'm looking forward to seeing your story on Amthrax when you flame out, Bob. LOL
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#34 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Now It's getting personal

AUTHOR: BobSanders49 - (United States of America)

OK, so now I'm not only an Idiot, now I'm a Hell bound Liar, according to you.

How Many people, other than me or you would follow you across the street, let alone into any financial or business transaction? Time will tell.

1. ---> So do all the other lying Amway upline, Bob. This is the same tripe repeated by the hundreds of Diamonds for the past several decades. If you read Amthrax, you will find several stories from former high level people who used to be in Orrin's group that prove it is NOT worth it. 

Show me ONE person in Amway who is on the TEAM! Just one! 
Name ONE person on the team with ANY connection to Amway. Just One!!!

2. Every Day Orren and Chris get hundreds of communications from people thanking them for the life changing information LIFE provides. You obviously have a personal hatred of Orren so you can't/won't see it. To everyone else, just listen to the letters to Chris: judges. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8mdxUfaT2t5WWt5Q2FGR3M2bzQ/edit?usp=sharing

3. You say: They teach everybody to be "nice" while they lie through their teeth. If you can't understand that, perhaps the "Idiot" label is accurate. 

To everyone else: Did he make his point or did he just throw more mud? If I truly am an Idiot and I succeed in creating more income in a month than I did in a year, what does that say about your ability to succeed?

You have challenged me to quit. To what? What do you have? Let all the readers read and discern between negative nothing and positive success. Do not expect any further argument as I am too busy building my LIFE business.
I wish you well.
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#35 Consumer Comment

You're Wrong AGAIN, Bob

AUTHOR: Tex - (USA)

Bob, you keep spewing lies, why haven't you addressed the other posts on this thread? My point by point rebuttal is followed by the arrows (--->) below:

From the forgoing post it is obvious that the author wants to create a following using RipoffReport.com for his pulpit. ---> The author wants to put the facts out, Bob.

1- No one in LIFE says building any business will be EASY. Orren does say it will be worth it. ---> So do all the other lying Amway upline, Bob. This is the same tripe repeated by the hundreds of Diamonds for the past several decades. If you read Amthrax, you will find several stories from former high level people who used to be in Orrin's group that prove it is NOT worth it. 

2- I challenge anyone anywhere to show me any business that can be built to hundreds of thousands of dollars per month using less time or less personal development. ---> Somebody could rob a bank, commit fraud, steal art and sell it, any number of other scams and crimes would work, Bob. You only THINK that Amway/Quixtar/Team of Destiny/TEAM/Life, or whatever Orrin is thinking of changing the name to next, is a legitimate business. It isn't. He was even kicked out of Amway, which has it's own scam, the Amway Tool Scam. Google "Stop The Amway Tool Scam Wordpress" for more details how people like Orrin rise to the "top" of that RICO fraudulent organization that enabled him to be able to start operating independently of them.

3- I challenge anyone anywhere to show me any method of self improvement that produces better results in a shorter period of time. ---> Quit Orrin's latest scam name, Life, and go to church. An added advantage: You won't end up in hell. 
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#36 Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal to the Rebuttal

AUTHOR: BobS****49 - (United States of America)

1. Your reply of "big deal" to the money back guarantee is hardly a rebuttal.

2.The Amthnrax site said nothing I could find about anyone loosing their business. Who are these "several people"? How can you accuse Orren of lying when he clearly states that is going to take some serious hard work to build the LIFE business. Why all the whining and crying? You offered NOTHING to rebut the fact that "me-you-6-4-2" is very different from "10 and 5".

3. OK, I'm an idiot! So, when I succeed you must concede that even an idiot can be successful in LIFE!

4. I am researching that as I write. I'll have to get back to you. I have heard the one of the Wisconsin Universities is using "Launching a Leadership Revolution" and that the "Mental Fitness Challenge" is used in Corporations. I challenge you to sign up for the 7-day free trial and have your "friends" evaluate you for your leadership skills. Are you afraid of what the results may be? (access it at slc-leadership.info)


5. The refund policy extends to the Seminars and Conventions. Does John Maxwell, Stephen Covey, Anthony Robbins or anyone else, offer refunds for their multi-thousand dollar meetings? Or, are you saying that the advanced Seminars should be open and free? Who does that?

6. Again, you have failed to be specific about what Orren said that is a lie.

7. Glad you asked!!! How much money do I make? In October I got a check for $70.50. The real question is: what did I do to earn it? NOTHING! absolutely nothing! Easton, Rob and Manase put over 40 people in my business while I was busy "holding my spot". Who does that???

Tex, it is "sun at noon day" obvious that you despise anything to do with Leadership or Self Improvement. I have asked you in private emails what you have that puts money in my pocket. All I have received from you is insult and polemic. OK, so be it. Let the reader be the judge.

Just last February 5th, Chris Brady came to Salt Lake City. I was one of the few invited to dine with him before the Open at the Airport Hilton. We were talking and as the food came, he asked us all to join him on a blessing on the food. That may not impress you but is was very impressive to me. You just can't fake that kind of sincerity in a prayer. Mock on if you will, but for my money Chris Brady is a real Christian. 

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#37 Consumer Comment

You're WRONG, Bob

AUTHOR: Tex - (USA)

Bob,

My comments are followed by the arrows (--->)
You said:
Anyone upset with LIFE, Orren Woodward or Chris Brady has some explaining to do. ---> There is a LOT of "explaining" on Amthrax.wordpress.com, there are several former high level people who were Orrin's downline who got hosed.

1) ALL LIFE products and services have a 30 day no questions asked money back grantee. ---> Big deal.

2) I have yet to encounter one critic who understands the "TEAM approach" to building the the LIFE business. They insist on applying the Amway you-me-6-4-2 model. Orren spent 5 years trying to make that work and could not! He and Chris Brady, George Gizardo and others scrapped it and created the TEAM approach, which does work. ---> WRONG. As I said above, there are several former high level people on the Amthrax site that understand the "TEAM approach" very well. The problem is they were lied to and their business essentially taken out from under them.

3) ALL the correspondence I personally have had with LIFE critics has resulted in me being called "Idiot" and other things not appropriate here. Orren Woodward teaches the use of "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnage. Negative people hate "rah rah books" too! ---> Orrin misuses that book, as do all of the other Amway high level IBOs. They teach everybody to be "nice" while they lie through their teeth. If you can't understand that, perhaps the "Idiot" label is accurate. 
4) Many top Corporations and Major Universities are currently using the LIFE products. ---> Can you list a few of them?
5) Open Meetings are free of any charge. ---> How about all of the other meetings?

6) The original article charges Orren Woodward with leading a cult. Cult leaders tell followers what to do and what to think. Orren makes suggestions that, those who actually follow, lead to success in the 8 F's listed below. Orren Woodward teaches critical thinking. How to think, not what to think. ---> That is one of several reasons I don't subscribe to the "cult" theory, I prefer to call them what they are, liars. And RICO fraudsters. 

7) The author of the original offered not one scintilla of evidence, just polemic. I have purchased the materials, I have attended the meetings, I am seeing positive results. How much more evidence do you want? ---> How much money do you make? Net profit? How big is your group? How many of them make a net profit?

I suggest anyone looking at LIFE consider the value of self improvement in the areas of Faith, Family, Finance, Fitness, Following (leadership), Freedom and Fun. ---> I suggest anyone looking at LIFE to not walk away....RUN!!!
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#38 UPDATE Employee

Living Intentionally For Excellence

AUTHOR: BobSanders49 - (United States of America)

From the forgoing post it is obvious that the author wants to create a following using RipoffReport.com for his pulpit. 

1- No one in LIFE says building any business will be EASY. Orren does say it will be worth it.

2- I challenge anyone anywhere to show me any business that can be built to hundreds of thousands of dollars per month using less time or less personal development. 

3- I challenge anyone anywhere to show me any method of self improvement that produces better results in a shorter period of time.

-Bob Sanders
slc-leadership@hotmail.com
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#39 Consumer Comment

Living Intentionally For Excellence

AUTHOR: BobSanders49 - (United States of America)

Anyone upset with LIFE, Orren Woodward or Chris Brady has some explaining to do.
1) ALL LIFE products and services have a 30 day no questions asked money back grantee.
2) I have yet to encounter one critic who understands the "TEAM approach" to building the the LIFE business. They insist on applying the Amway you-me-6-4-2 model. Orren spent 5 years trying to make that work and could not! He and Chris Brady, George Gizardo and others scrapped it and created the TEAM approach, which does work.
3) ALL the correspondence I personally have had with LIFE critics has resulted in me being called "Idiot" and other things not appropriate here. Orren Woodward teaches the use of "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnage. Negative people hate "rah rah books" too!
4) Many top Corporations and Major Universities are currently using the LIFE products.
5) Open Meetings are free of any charge.
6) The original article charges Orren Woodward with leading a cult. Cult leaders tell followers what to do and what to think. Orren makes suggestions that, those who actually follow, lead to success in the 8 F's listed below. Orren Woodward teaches critical thinking. How to think, not what to think. 
7) The author of the original offered not one scintilla of evidence, just polemic. I have purchased the materials, I have attended the meetings, I am seeing positive results. How much more evidence do you want?

I suggest anyone looking at LIFE consider the value of self improvement in the areas of Faith, Family, Finance, Fitness, Following (leadership), Freedom and Fun. 

Bob Sanders, slc-leadership@hotmail.com
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#40 UPDATE EX-employee responds

TEAM = AMWAY

AUTHOR: Tex - (USA)

TEAM/LIFE is the most recent incarnation of Orrin Woodward's version of the Amway Tool Scam. He moved from Amway/Quixtar to MonaVie, and now LIFE. All along the way, he and his other high level followers made MUCH more from the tools that were supposed to be providing the training for his lower level followers, but in fact the training system was the largest source of profit, as it is for most other high level Amway IBOs/Distributors, see stoptheamwaytoolscam.wordpress.com for more information.

Note: I am not technically a former Amway employee (I picked the best fit from the choices offered on the pull down list), but am a long term Amway/Quixtar IBO who was one of millions of people who have been ripped off for several decades for 10s to 100s of billions of dollars, thanks to the Amway Tool Scam.
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