• Report: #1088811

Complaint Review: Transphobic harassment in Sunrise Florida. Mean people at Sawgrass Mills mall.

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  • Submitted: Wed, October 02, 2013
  • Updated: Wed, October 02, 2013

  • Reported By: Abused son — Sunrise Florida
Transphobic harassment in Sunrise Florida. Mean people at Sawgrass Mills mall.
Sunrise, Florida USA

Transphobic harassment in Sunrise Florida. Mean people at Sawgrass Mills mall. Mean people at the Broward mall bully you about your gender Sunrise Florida

*Consumer Suggestion: Cissexism aside...

*Author of original report: What happened was...

*Consumer Comment: Okay then...

*Author of original report: It's very simple.

*Consumer Comment: Apparently not...

*Author of original report: I don't believe that you're a woman

*Consumer Comment: comment

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The Sawgrass mills mall in Sunrise Florida is filled with discriminatory people. The people who discriminate appear African-American in color. This is not a rip-off report to vent about dark skinned people, though the discrimination I have faced is usually from them, especially very good-looking African-Americans who wear expensive looking clothing. I was at Burlington Coat factory when I wanted to try on a dress.

As I went to the dressing room, I was publically informed that "women" were complaining about my presence there. How they could have possibly told whether I was a man or woman is beyond me, and the fact that they feel they have the right to determine who can go in what dressing room is pathetic. These people repeatedly call me "sir" when I appear in female clothing. 


This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 10/02/2013 01:32 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Transphobic-harassment-in-Sunrise-Florida-Mean-people-at-Sawgrass-Mills-mall/Sunrise-Florida-33322/Transphobic-harassment-in-Sunrise-Florida-Mean-people-at-Sawgrass-Mills-mall-Mean-peopl-1088811. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
3Author 4Consumer 0Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Suggestion

Cissexism aside...

AUTHOR: Nika - ()

What Cindy experienced was discrimination and illegal.  Broward County, FL, has an anti-discrimination ordinance on the books that includes transgender people in public accomodations.

broward.org/Intergovernmental/Documents/LGBTRightsBrochure.pdf

She has every right to and may, in fact, be required to use the women's fitting room or face prosecution.

Contact the county county Human Rights commission if you wish to file a grievance here:
broward.org/Intergovernmental/Pages/HumanRights.aspx

That being said...

I know several cisgender women who don't fit nicely into the range of what western society calls 'women.'  Janet Reno has features that many Americans would consider to be masculine, but she's a woman.  Should she be barred from trying on a dress in a women's fitting room as well?

"Until you have certain body parts cut off...you are still legally a man and have zero "right" to use any dressing room you want."  Wrong.  See above for links to the appropriate legislation.  Cincy was trying to use a fitting room that matched her gender.  She was denied access.

The status of a person's genitals, trans- or cisgender, is irrelevant.  Should there be a big sign at the entrance stating, "Please show the attendant your genitals before entering?"  I highly doubt any company or corporation would institute such a policy.  That would be very bad for business.

"Because until that point there is no way for a store to tell the difference between someone who claims to be transgendered and just a regular sexual preditor who dresses up like a woman to enter a female dressing room to well lets just say to "get their jollies".  And I am not even talking about a major crime, perhaps they just want to take pictures of naked women and do that hoping that one of the doors are open.  Oh and yes this does go both ways...until a woman has certain things done..they are still legally a woman and have zero rights to go into a mans dressing room."  Still wrong.  They have every right to use public accomodations that match their gender.  

The 'sexual predator' angle is a fear tactic contrived by transphobic bigots as a bludgeon to deny trans* people equal rights and protections when it comes to public accomodations.  

Oh, jeanski, you're precious.  "I want to preface this by saying I don't approve of harrassment or discrimination of any kind." This statement is false when the rest of your comment is taken into consideration.  You should have stated, "I want to preface this by saying I don't approve of harrassment or discrimination against cisgender people of any kind."  Let's look at the facts.

First, sexism...  "Obviously, your appearance is not as feminine as you think if customers could tell you're a man.  I think the store has every right to determine that if you're a man, you don't belong in the women's dressing room (or restroom either).  I'd complain too. If I wear jeans and a flannel shirt can I go in the men's dressing room? I suspect they wouldn't complain (heheh) but that doesn't make it right (I'm a woman)."  

There are social pressures for women to dress and appear a certain way, but this is not codified by law. Further, in the locality these incidents happened gender expression is a protected category.  This protects not only transgender people but cisgender people, too.  It protects everyone from being discriminated against due to their appearance and presentation and how well they fit into traditional gender roles and norms.  It protects Janet Reno from discrimination against her based on her physical appearance.  Poor Ms Reno must feel exhausted from being used so much.

Then cissexism... "There's been some press lately about companies having to accomodate transgender persons in terms of which restroom they can use. Here are the facts: Regardless of what you cut off or have surgically attached, what hormones you take, or what clothes you wear, you are born genetically ONE GENDER and that can't be changed. Everything else is window dressing as far as the public is concerned."

You aren't arguing with facts, you're arguing with opinions.  The facts are completely different and you fail to take into account transgender and intersex people and others.  Some of the 'facts' you're arguing with are incorrect.  Gender refers to social and behavioral traits rather than biological ones.  Transgender people don't choose to be transgender, it's part of our core makeup.  A person's gender identity usually forms between 18-36 months of age.  You're right in that it can't be changed.  Reparative therapy doesn't change it and often leads to suicide of the patient.

As to genetics, it's not as binary as you seem to believe.  It's generally true that people with XY chromosomes are men and XX women, but not always.  Some people are born with XY chromosomes but are unable to respond to testosterone and develop bodies that have a vagina and breasts rather than a p***s and testicles.  Some people are born intersex.  Some are born with XXY, XYY and other variations of chromosomes. 

Next, homophobia... "There is ample scientific evidence that average people can tell who is LGBT by the way they walk. Perhaps this is instinctual so that we can choose a potential mate. Who knows. But apparently we can do it. In your case, the clothes didn't camouflage anything."  

The studies I've found only show a 60% success rate when the subject was a gay man and no statistical accuracy beyond chance when the subject was a l*****n woman.  The scientific evidence that being transgender is biological is much more ample: brain structure and function studies, genetic studies, and studies on testosterone exposure in the womb.

Finally, transphobia... "What you choose to identify yourself as is irrelevent. You're a man and should go to the appropriate room."  Misgendering Cindy is harrassing behavior and discriminatory.  A person's gender identity is not a choice.  When did you choose to be a woman?

What you choose to do in the privacy of your home is one thing. When it affects the public, we shouldn't be required to accomodate your bigotry, jeanski.

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#2 Author of original report

What happened was...

AUTHOR: Cindy - ()

I walked up to the dressing room desk with the dress and tried to hand it to the attendant. She immediately snapped back that people were complaining that I am "man who was trying to go into the woman's dressing room". It was about a span of a minute from when I picked up the dress till I got to the dressing room. So not only is the timing off but what she specifically said people were complaining about didn't even happen. I did not specify which dressing room I wanted to go into when I handed her the dress.

As for "African-American"...well, they were black. I'm in Florida and whenever I've tried to go out in clothes that make me comfortable, it's always black people who stare, snicker and are rude. This is in the neighbood I live in, so I can't just "go somewhere else" at the moment. For the record, I don't get this type of treatment in other neighborhoods.  Many conservative southern blacks do not like gay and transgendered people. Should I feel guilty? 

As for your keeping tabs on this report...I don't see the point. Do you live in Sunrise or have something to do with the Sawgrass mills mall? This is not like...you know...AOL chat.

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#3 Consumer Comment

Okay then...

AUTHOR: Robert - ()

 Okay so then answer this specific question.  In an update you stated....

" I didn't see anyone complain. It was one person who had a problem with me. And that person was lying."

So if you didn't see anyone complain how do you know it was one person?  Then if it was one person what specifically did they say that was a lie?

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#4 Author of original report

It's very simple.

AUTHOR: Cindy - ()

It's very simple. I did not specifically request to go into the ladies' or men's dressing room. I walked up to the counter with a dress. Within seconds, a single person said people were "complaining about it". I didn't see anyone complain. It was one person who had a problem with me. And that person was lying.

 

 

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#5 Consumer Comment

Apparently not...

AUTHOR: Robert - ()

 I have posted my picture and definitely passed

- Apparently you don't look as much like a woman as you think.  As if you do..they wouldn't have complained about you being a man....now would they?  Or did they just take a lucky guess and happen to be right?

Now, while I agree in principal with what Jeanski said I will add one point.  Until you have certain body parts cut off...you are still legally a man and have zero "right" to use any dressing room you want.   Because until that point there is no way for a store to tell the difference between someone who claims to be transgendered and just a regular sexual preditor who dresses up like a woman to enter a female dressing room to well lets just say to "get their jollies".  And I am not even talking about a major crime, perhaps they just want to take pictures of naked women and do that hoping that one of the doors are open.  Oh and yes this does go both ways...until a woman has certain things done..they are still legally a woman and have zero rights to go into a mans dressing room.


FYI I am 100% male and proud of it.  Discrimination or fear of people who are transgendered have nothing to do with his.

But if you want to really talk about discrimination..just look at your comments.

The people who discriminate appear African-American in color.

- So when did African American become a color?  Does Crayola know about this?

This is not a rip-off report to vent about dark skinned people

- Guess what..not all "dark skined" people are African American. 

Ah yes..I have seen discrimination and thy name is "Abused Son" aka Brianna(at least according to the picture posted).

 

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#6 Author of original report

I don't believe that you're a woman

AUTHOR: Cindy - ()

I think you are a man pretending to be a woman. Do you operate the Sawgrass Mills mall? All you are is some anonymouse bigot who obviously doesn't understand or know anything about transsexuality. I have posted my picture and definitely passed. You come off as a self-hating transgendered person. Let's see your picture. No photoshop.

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#7 Consumer Comment

comment

AUTHOR: Jeanski - ()

I want to preface this by saying I don't approve of harrassment or discrimination of any kind. But let's look at the facts.

Obviously, your appearance is not as feminine as you think if customers could tell you're a man.  I think the store has every right to determine that if you're a man, you don't belong in the women's dressing room (or restroom either).  I'd complain too. If I wear jeans and a flannel shirt can I go in the men's dressing room? I suspect they wouldn't complain (heheh) but that doesn't make it right (I'm a woman).

There's been some press lately about companies having to accomodate transgender persons in terms of which restroom they can use. Here are the facts: Regardless of what you cut off or have surgically attached, what hormones you take, or what clothes you wear, you are born genetically ONE GENDER and that can't be changed. Everything else is window dressing as far as the public is concerned.  What you choose to do in the privacy of your home is one thing. When it affects the public, we shouldn't be required to accomodate you.

There is ample scientific evidence that average people can tell who is LGBT by the way they walk. Perhaps this is instinctual so that we can choose a potential mate. Who knows. But apparently we can do it. In your case, the clothes didn't camouflage anything.

What you choose to identify yourself as is irrelevent. You're a man and should go to the appropriate room

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