Tri Financial, LLC collection agency saying I owe them thousands of dollars North Tonawanda, New York

The million dollar question concerning your relative Danny is if they can afford to make good on the debt by paying in full (settling dings your credit and you will get a 1099 IRS form you have to declare "unearned income" on if you save over $600.). If it's the only debt they have out there, they should call the original creditor to find out the status of the debt. Precharge off or chargeoff? And they can order a credit bureau report which consumers can do once a year for free. If your relative hopes to end the process they should negotiate an arrangement with the original creditor since they still own the account and get offer in writing before giving them a penny. As I said previously in this report, the original creditor can assign a debt at any time to a 3rd party agency. Some 3rd party agencies do call prechargeoffs,although most call chargeoffs. If it is determined the account is less than 180 days and your relative can afford to pay it in full, then pay it. Once it charges off, the chargeoff stays on their CBR for 7 years.

On the contrary, if your relative cannot pay in full and has other chargeoffs out there, I'd send the initial communication request letter (section 809(a)) to the agency's physical address certified mail return receipt requested and avoid contacting the original creditor (acknowledging the debt). Then if the agency sends initial communication letter, promptly mail out the debt validation request letter as I formatted above to their physical address CMRRR.

As far as me giving helpful advice, it's always free and I try to help others the way I had to figure out on my own in recent years after a couple decades of high 700's FICO. Crap happens to people and I merely try to educate consumers on how to avoid gray hairs and win money from agency FDCPA violations when a 3rd party agency contacts them. In order to ESTABLISH good credit and then default, one has to show financial responsibility for some time. I believe 95% of debtors had at one time paid their bills on time and only chose to walk away once only their essentials could be covered. Essentials are mortgage/rent,utilities,auto,food and gas. Collectors could give two craps about that. They work on commission and want your money. Creditors with real power (bank who finances home and auto) don't waste their time on endless calls month after month year after year with 3rd party agencies. They simply foreclose or repossess. Most unsecured credit lines are just that.Unsecured. They can't do squat to you unless they win a default judgment in civil court. Even at that, debtors can get around it by filing bankruptcy, switching jobs to avoid garnishment (if state permits garnishment),closing checking account to avoid bank levy,stopping direct deposit at POE,etc. Good luck to you and your relative Danny!

FDCPAVIOLATIONSWINNER,
Something struck me as odd the other day when I conversed with this particular Collection Company. They stated my relatives ACCT is 162 days past due? I thought to myself 162 days past due...usually the magic number is 180 days pas due for Credit Card companies to charge off delinquent accounts right?
Well apparently my relative made a payment in the amount of $200.00 on this Account back in late October of 2008 and it started the whole process over again. So they must have received this ACCT before December 2008, in all likelihood before October 2008 right? My relative told me today they received a statement from the original Creditor in the mail on Friday.....what the heck is going on? Can both the original credit card company, and the collection company have custody of the account at the same time? Should they still send the letter out you suggested stating XYZ company needs to send out an initial communications letter in accordance with FDCPA 809(a)?
Thanks for all your help...you really need to start your own consulting business helping others who have fallen on hard times, fallen ill etc. I have always paid my Credit Cards on time, and have an excellent credit score. However with the aforementioned being said I could get hit my a car tomorrow and then what......I'm a "Scumbag" because I can longer pay my credit card bill(s). If you only knew the ferocity in which these companies have attacked one of the nicest individuals you could ever come in contact with in your life. I watched the documentary "Maxed Out", and was shocked when it was revealed debt collectors have made both young and old individuals lives so miserable they committed suicide! My relative was both really scared, and extremely depressed.... who knows what would have happened had they not afforded us with what was going on...SCARY!

Best,
Danny

If the agency sends their initial communication letter as demanded in the above letter, have your relative send the following below verbatim CMRRR upon getting initial communication letter.Sample debt validation request letter below. Again, do before 30 day window of FDCPA protection expires.

________________________

To: ABC Agency
From: Joe Consumer
3/x/09
file # ____

I dispute the validity of your claim concerning the alleged ABC Credit account for x amount of dollars. I trust that this request for validation will be honored in full compliance with the FDCPA (section 809).

___________________________

As far as your idea of wiring a call through a state like Texas. FDCPA knowledge is my strength, technology not so much.LOL.Can't help you there although it seems like you are stepping into some gray areas to say the least.It's a waste of time and even a person who like myself that has baited agencies into technicality violations resulting in "out of court settlements" would say such an idea is "frivilous" and quite likely breaking the law. If the agency successfully validates, just let them leave voicemail messages for 3-6 months. Stay off the phone! Chances are a commissioned bill collector behind on their quota will make implied threats on voicemail. Voicemail messages are treated as 3rd party communication/ disclosure so that whole one or two party state rule concerning live contact is irrelevant.

These are typical voicemail recordings I have called out agencies on and won out of court settlements on through negotiating with various agency compliance directors for FDCPA voicemail violations.

1) "Mr ____, we urgently need for you to call back within 24 hours." (false sense of urgency violation)

2) "Mr ____, I am making a final decision concerning this matter in the office". (again, false sense of urgency).

3) "Mr ____, this is now in the legal dept., please return the call." (misrepresentation of legal status/implying one is an atty or paralegal)

4) "Mr ____, this is now in the legal dept and we will be filing the paperwork if the call isn't returned in 24 hours." (misrepresentation of legal status, implied threat and false sense of urgency).

Voicemail is your friend. Collectors earn meager base pay and live for commission/bonus checks. If one is behind on quota and their job is in jeopardy, they will break the law to draw a response from you. Voicemail recordings are again the best way to get them once again. It's 3rd party communication and any consent to record is irrelevant. You didn't ask for the voicemail, they did it at their own discretion without your consent. Hence, 3rd party communication and it will stick in court.

Thanks my friend, does this happen often in regards to companies refusing to send out Dunning Notices? I mean things get lost in the mail all the time, mail gets misplaced etc which might be the case here as my relative has been extremely absent minded since becoming ill. Regardless is it really to much to ask that a Collection Company simply send out the original dunning notice they may or may have not send out back in December of 2008? BTW they also stated they sent a settlement letter out, in January 2009 and because they sent the settlement letter out they can no longer send the Dunning notice out? Next time I'm going to tell them to send my relative a pen in the mail, and if they send my relative a pen in the mail he might entertain sending them a check (Tongue And Cheek)
Unfortunately we would have to get the other parties consent to record phone calls in the state in which my relative resides. However, maybe we could patch a phone call through a state like TX, in which the other parties consent is not required...is there a way to do this? This really does become a rather laborious process, however with a little ingenuity... I believe consumers can beat these guys at their own game.

Best,
Danny

Upon reading your post again, I missed the part on them telling you they'd mark it as a direct refusal to pay. For recording calls, you need to find out if your relative's state is a one party or two party state. Meaning some states can allow a consumer to record a call without informing the collector and others can't. Therefore, if your state DOES NOT allow taping a call without informing the collector first, any recording is inadmissable in court. If the state the call was made to doesn't require the consumer to give consent to tape, then you got them on a 3rd party disclosure violation assuming you taped this call. If you didn't tape, unfortunately it's hearsay and it won't stick in court. Good luck Danny!

Obviously it goes without saying that your family member needs to send this letter out certified mail return receipt requested to the agency's physical address.

_________________________________

From: Joe Consumer
To: ABC Agency
3/x/09
File # ______

Under FDCPA section 809(a), the law requires that your agency sends me an initial communication letter within 5 days of initial communication over the phone in regards to this alleged account. Seeing as I have caller id and proof verbal attempts have been made to communicate with me on this alleged account, you are now in violation of the FDCPA section 809(a) since it is now March 7. This is my final demand to receive proper written communication that you are authorized to communicate with me on this alleged account. Seeing as this demand is being sent certifed mail return receipt requested, I will expect a letter of communication within 5 days after the date your agency signs on the green card form upon receipt of this letter at your physical address. Otherwise, I will exercise my rights as afforded under the FDCPA to seek remedy to this violation if this request is not honored.

________________________________

Notice I did not suggest disputing in this demand letter. Wait till they honor the demand and send you their first dunning letter which will require that they state you have 30 days to dispute.Then send a validation letter. Otherwise, get an attorney and sue them if they do not honor the demand.

What does one do when a company refuses to send a Dunning notice out? They have stated they have sent a dunning notice out to my relative, however he received nothing of the kind. They took custody of this ACCT back in December of 2008. Of course they have no proof of mailing via USPS DC or certified mail, yet they insist they have sent it out to my relative who has received all his other mail.
He has asked them numerous times via the telephone to send him a dunning notice via USPS....yet unbelievably they still refuse to send one out to him. He did manage to get an internal ACCT number for this particular Debt Collection company. "Can He Still Send A Debt Validation Letter Out", in other words will the "Internal ACCT number suffice?
What would the debt validation letter state...maybe (IE) "In Reference To Your Phone Call on 2/28/2009, and your refusal to send out a Dunning notice in accordance with FDCPA rules and regulation I'm asking for the following?
Thanks for your help Fdcpaviolationswinner, I'm advocating on behalf of one of my relatives who unfortunately became very ill. Their messing with the wrong family if they think we / I will roll over and take this crap! The guys on the phone was shouting at me, and I started shouting back. He stated I will just mark this in your file as a refusal to pay "I stated It's Not My file Idiot", it's my relatives "File". After this whole experience I really wish I had the time to become a consumer advocate, and go after these Jokers.

Best,
Danny

Danny, you bring up valid points on why the original creditor would assign debts to a 3rd party collector upon chargeoff. The answer is, I don't know for sure but I like that they do.LOL. For the first 180 days or so after one stops paying, (using Chase as an example), Chase's internal collections department calls you endlessly. Chase isn't governed by the FDCPA so consumers do not have the protection that they have under the FDCPA when they assign or sell the debt after chargeoff/180 days of nonpayment. Credit card companies have millions of delinquent accounts and they simply don't have the "manpower" to keep them in their internal department for long periods of time. I can only assume Chase feels the "yield of return/collectability" goes down dramatically every 30 days after nonpayment. At 180 days, they apparantly feel they would rather focus their efforts on precharged off accounts (less than 180 days) where they can still salvage debtors as "customers." When Chase "assigns" debts, they still get the bulk of the share of payments made and they don't have to do a thing to collect on it. Obviously the assigned agency gets a cut of it too (usually 15-30%). As far as Chase immediately "litigating" accounts just after chargeoff, I'm sure if the debtor's assets and yield of returns are high enough, they can forego the 3rd party process and take it to civil court. However, many debtors have cashflow problems and the cost of suing is often far greater than the return when debtors can simply file bankruptcy (assuming they haven't made fraudulent conveyances that can be challenged by the bankruptcy trustee). Lastly, time varies greatly from OC to OC as to when they stop assigning and sell it to junk debt buyers.Sometimes within several months after chargeoff, sometimes years. Debt validation is obviously a useful tool to challenge the agency to "put up or shut up." I as well recommend using debt vlidation whenever a 3rd party sends a consumer their initial dunning letter.

Fdcpaviolationswinner, yes I apologize what I meant was they have a fudicairy responsibilty to their shareholders, or for "Tax Purposes", as you stated they charge off delinquent ACCTs after 180 days. Quick question for you considering you are so knowledgeable in regards to all this "Stuff"
If there was a binding arbitration agreement between (IE) consumer and credit card company why send it off to "Your" hypothetical ABC, XYZ debt collection company in the first place? Regardless in your example of weather or not Chase still legally owns the debt, or ultimately decides to sell it to a Debt Collector the following point I belive needs to be made....maybe I'm wrong here?
If they or the OC had a binding arbitration agreement in your contract that you originally signed with them one would reasonably assume they wouldn't go through the hassle of assigning the debt out to a third party company right? Correct me if I'm wrong however wouldn't they be more inclined to forget all about "ABC", or XYZ" altogether and litigate outside of court where they will don't quote me on this around 99% of the time? I mean after all it's in your user agreement should you agree to these terms as a consumer right?
Another point which maybe needs to be made is if ABC company can't properly validate your debt, they are by law supposed to return it back to the OC right? The OC can then have another Collection Company try and collect on the debt, or "Rinse And Repeat" right? You sound like your pretty knowledgeable in regards to this "Stuff", far more knowledgeable then me...looking forward to you reply.

Best,
Danny

Danny, a lot of your points concerning debt validation and being aware of FDCPA laws serve as very good advice for uninformed consumers. However, chargeoffs after 180 days of nonpayment DO NOT eliminate the original creditor from trying to collect. They are for tax reporting purposes where the OC takes a loss on your account for income tax purposes. The debt is still collectible. Some OC's like Chase tend to keep charged off credit cards for years before selling it to junk debt buyers. Sometimes consumers need to view their credit report to see if their debt has been sold from OC to junk debt buyer.

Example:

You owe Chase $10000. ABC agency is calling you but the debt after chargeoff still shows $10000 on your CBR.That means Chase has ASSIGNED the debt to ABC agency. Chase still owns the debt, they are merely assigning it to ABC Agency to call on behalf of Chase.

On the contrary, you see that your $10000 Chase account has a tradeline that states $0 balance "account sold." That means XYZ agency is now the owner of the debt and you can't speak with Chase at all since they sold it. Again, if a Chase tradeline for $10000 shows a $0 balance on your CBR tradeline, the account is sold to a junk debt buyer.

This undoubtedly has to be one of the sleaziest Collection Companies here in the United States. They have no comprehension of FDCPA rules and regulations they are supposed to be governed by or abide by. They continually harassed a family member of mine, however we turned the tables on them after we learned everything we could possibly get our hands on in reference to both the FDCPA, and FCRA. Just wait for them to make a mistake....they will eventually and then "Turn The Tables On Them", if they are unwilling to work with you. Try to work out a deal with them after they violate the law or more specifically break certain FDCPA rules and regulations enacted to protect consumers such as yourself.
As is the case with any debt collection company / debt collector don't believe a thing they tell you....most are pathological liars! Also respond to their dunning notice notice within 30 days of receipt which they are "Supposed" to send out....however sometimes conveniently do not so they can continue to harass you. So why you ask is the reason they sometimes fail to send the dunning notice out, even though they are again required to do so by law within 5 days of receiving your debt? Many Debt Collection companies are now privy to the fact that consumers are becoming more informed in regards to "Debt Validation Letters" and other forms of "Leave Me Alone", communication. Do your homework, don't let this become a default judgment AKA a "Debt Collectors Dream"

After you send out your Debt Validation letter via USPS, certified mail (Keep All Receipts" sit back relax, and laugh every time they try to make contact with you. Each offense is a $1,000 FDCPA violation if they continue to contact you without first validating your debt(s)....which 99.99% of the time they are unable to do because of confidentiality agreements between you and your original creditor. You owe them nothing you had a contract with your original creditor..."NOT THEM". Call your original creditor and try and settle with them, even though they probably will not as your ACCT probably went 180 days past due they had to wipe it off their books. Good luck, even though you really don't need any as long as you educate yourself and take control of the situation...."You Are In Control", Not Them!

Best Regards,
Danny

People on SSI CANNOT have their wages garnished for any payday loan. That is the case even if the creditor sues and wins in civil court. Many of these collectors calling you need to first earn their high school diplomas let alone pass the Attorney Bar Exam upon completion of Law School. By all means let them call you and keep getting these idle threats recorded (check and see if Washington allows you to tape without giving consent first in live contact). Normally, I'd tell people to stay off the phone and let them leave FDCPA violating voicemail messages. However, with you being judgment proof, by all means bait and entrap them in live contact. Get as much as you can on recording before your attorney sues them. Good luck!