vemma The Ultimate Pyramid Scheme, Make money hahahaha.... rather loose money! scottsdale, Arizona

 I'm tired of the way Vemma HAS BRAINWASHED you idiots into bragging about your dumb a** drink and all the money you aren't making.  you people are trying to make it look like you are making all kinds of money so your friends will join your little scheme also.  I am tired of hearing RACKEM and I am tired of hearing about paying for leased BMW's which you never really own in the first place. 

RACK DEEZ.  go telemarket or something.

this means you CB

A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public.

Various forms of pyramid schemes are illegal in many countries including the United States

These types of schemes have existed for at least a century, some with variations to hide their true nature, and because of this, many people believe that all multilevel marketing plans are also pyramid schemes.

VeMMA does not promise any money. I am a brand partner, I came up with nothing and making it in this business. It is not a Pyramid Scheme, you guys already said you get products in the mail. Unfortunately, most of your parents have filled your head with nonsense as you grew up. Yes, there is an income disclosure the new income disclosure states, "Results not typical, your results may vary. The success or failure of each individual is dependent on their own efforts. The company has generally expected results which can be obtained by visiting www.vemma.com" Verbatim.

That means the company is not responsible for YOUR Failure. There are only 2 ways you can fail in this business and that is IF YOU QUIT or you are LAZY and do not do ANYTHING. I was at a point where I wanted to QUIT but I realized that I would be at the same position I was before I started. Broke, Homeless, and hating my job. Therefore I stuck with it and stuck with the training which is provided for you if YOU take initiative and get in contact with your leaders.

Now I have over 200 people in my network and am picking out a BRAND NEW BMW. Another thing I was quite intrigued by was the face that you said you have to maintain sales for the company to continue sending you your Car Bonus. Hmm, let's think like you were the owner of the company. You gave one of your partners a car. They slacked off. Why would you continue to support luxury for them if they are being LAZY? I wouldn't.

This is a very fun and rewarding opportunity. I am terribly sorry that you were lazy and did nothing and didn't get in contact with your leaders so by quitting was your version of slandering the company into being a pyramid scheme. That's cool. I really do hope you open your mind because if you really get serious about this and make it a priority you will be successful. You have to drive the wheel. Don't recreate it. 

Thanks for your time. 

Not two hours ago, a text with a link to the vemma website with a video was sent. The text said watch the video and get back to me. So I watched the video and did some research, which is how I ended up here.

Much like in the poorly written article above, the video mentioned a friend that had joined vemma but in this particular version his friend recruited him. The man in the video has the title of "Ambassador" under his name, and the very first thing he talks about is how people that join "start their own business, set their own times, be their own boss, set their own income, and literally make as much money as they want" (this is repeated verbatim, this is the initial hook of almost every pyramid scheme I've ever seen or heard of uses.

The first step the video describes says to go after your friends and family members to not only get them to buy the product but also recruit them. He goes on to explain how "17 months ago" he was just like the viewer and describes how on his start out he invited 50 people to a party for the product, "25 told me they'd show up, 10 came, 6 said no, 4 said yes, and now we have turned that into thousands of college and high school kids in 1 years time..." (again verbatim). My first problem with that is that he said 17 months the first time, and then he says 1 year. My second problem is that while he's going on about this party a fine print disclaimer appears at the bottom of the screen which states that the results are not typical and results may vary, which is the safe net the company is using because people tend not to read the fine print.

He then goes on to explain how these people are making around or upwards of 100,000 a year, and saying that if he can do it then you can to. He closes the video with "there are 3 types of people in this world, people who make things happen, watch things happen, and people who go what the heck just happened, you're one of 'em, make the right decision, this is gonna be big"(yet again I repeat this verbatim) and then it transitions to a screen telling you to text your friend back. 

As for the common argument that I notice of how much money the company has made in such a short period of time, that is also a sign of a pyramid scheme. Regardless of celebrities endorsing the product or promoting it, this just means that although it's a scheme they do have a good product. Vector aka CutCo also generates an extremely large amount of money and has an extraordinary product, but their marketing system is a pyramid scheme, one of my friends lost lots of money through them while another one of my friends played the game and made lots of money through them.

Regardless of how well or how bad you do through this program it is a pyramid scheme.

In order to be considered active, you must have an Auto-delivery base order with a 60 reward point minimum order every five (5) weeks. Platinum and above Brand Partners are considered active if they have an Auto-delivery base order with 120 reward points every five (5) weeks. A 60 reward point or 120 reward point order will activate your account for four (4) volume periods including the volume week in which the order is placed, plus one (1) volume week grace period. As an active Brand Partner, you can accrue volume from sales that occur under you in your power leg. Active Brand Partners (U.S.) Leader Rank

Remember a brand partner has to be on auto payment of product of 60.00/ mo. That's 720.00 a year minimum you pay to be a brand partner. So theoretically u can deduct that from your annualized average earnings!

Annualized Average Earnings Member 29.88% $421.18 Bronze Leader 43.00% $954.99 Silver Leader 11.35% $3,071.57 Gold Leader 7.39% $5,960.56 Diamond Leader 4.81% $11,645.84 Platinum Leader 1.20% $33,519.31 Star Platinum 0.60% $31,067.55 Executive 0.70% $45,948.87 Star Executive 0.28% $70,195.04 Presidential 0.30% $101,591.67 Star Presidential 0.10% $166,591.39 Ambassador 0.17% $222,121.55 Star Ambassador 0.11% $388,181.87 Royal Ambassador 0.11% $1,040,056.14

With much work finally able to copy and paste following:

College students beware u r the latest target for their hard sell with Verve.

Educate yourself!

I do drink Vemma products when I can afford them. I initially became interested in becoming a BP to "drink for free" and make a little $. It took me many many hours and several hundred dollars to come to the conclusion that what I was really involved in.

2011 INCOME DISCLOSURE POLICY OF U.S. BRAND PARTNERS Vemma offers its Brand Partners an opportunity to achieve a lifetime of better health through its clinically studied, single formula, Vemma products. While many of our Brand Partners join the Vemma family simply to enjoy our life- changing products, others want to share their results and take advantage of the many income benefits our business opportunity provides. With Vemma, you can work part-time and earn a supplemental income, or focus solely on your Vemma Brand Partnership and increase your financial potential. Its completely up to the individual how much he or she wants to achieve! Our business model is designed to reward our Brand Partner by giving them an opportunity to purchase Vemma products at wholesale and reselling them at retail. If the Brand Partner wants to increase his or her involvement in the business and enjoy the possibility of higher levels of income, he or she may sponsor others into the business and develop an organization. There are two forms of income with Vemma immediate income and long term income. Our plan is based on the simple two (2) team building concept - a left side team and a right side team. Since there are just two (2) teams to build, this creates excitement as new Brand Partners join, one after the other, down team lines, helping more people benefit from the volume and creating greater leverage within the plan. In order to be considered active, you must have an Auto-delivery base order with a 60 reward point minimum order every five (5) weeks. Platinum and above Brand Partners are considered active if they have an Auto-delivery base order with 120 reward points every five (5) weeks. A 60 reward point or 120 reward point order will activate your account for four (4) volume periods including the volume week in which the order is placed, plus one (1) volume week grace period. As an active Brand Partner, you can accrue volume from sales that occur under you in your power leg. Active Brand Partners (U.S.) Leader Rank Percent of Average Earners Per 4 Week Period Annualized Average Earnings Member 29.88% $421.18 Bronze Leader 43.00% $954.99 Silver Leader 11.35% $3,071.57 Gold Leader 7.39% $5,960.56 Diamond Leader 4.81% $11,645.84 Platinum Leader 1.20% $33,519.31 Star Platinum 0.60% $31,067.55 Executive 0.70% $45,948.87 Star Executive 0.28% $70,195.04 Presidential 0.30% $101,591.67 Star Presidential 0.10% $166,591.39 Ambassador 0.17% $222,121.55 Star Ambassador 0.11% $388,181.87 Royal Ambassador 0.11% $1,040,056.14 The amounts above are in addition to and do not include profits earned on the resale of products to consumers or other Brand Partners. The figures stated above are not a guarantee nor are they a projection of a typical Brand Partners earnings or profits. Like any other independent business, the achievement or failure of a Brand Partner depends upon his or her skill set, commitment and desire to succeed. At Vemma, the opportunity to earn more is always available to each and every Brand Partner. For more information on Vemmas Referral Bonus Program, please go to http://www.vemma.com/backoffice/pdf/compensationPlan.pdf.

You do the math!

I also hav a connection to a government analysis of MLMshttp://www.mlmwatchdog.com/files/FTC_Letter.pdf

BMoney91, now that is an educated response, not like the responder right before you who I ignored. I did not just skim through the website. I was actually researching the company as one of my close friends was asked to join in on this "great opportunity" and I wanted  make sure I looked at everything, that way I could give my opinion on the venture. 

I wanted to write a formal response to your post, but just like my first posting, going formal requires too much time as well as effort. So just like my first rebuttal I will just run through and debate accordingly to your own posting, which might lead to a little disorganization, but I am not too worried about that. Please do not take any of this to heart, I am just expressing my thoughts opposed to those you have laid out. Also this time I am not really going to quote anything, as I will take my info from what you have written. 


Let's start with you quoting my statement on "recruiting your own competition." You must realize that this is the case. Back and forth NO MATTER WHAT you rationalize the more people that enter the less people there are to bring in, please disprove this logic to me if you know how. A pyramid scheme is illegal and there are many good reasons as to why, and you successfully pointed out its main flaw: products. MLM's escape pyramid classification as they contain a product, like you said. What that means is that you do not need to recruit people in order to make money but let's face it, if you want to make the most money like your apparent heroes Alex and Bryce, you need to recruit people (like they have done so well). That even comes across throughout your post where you focus on your six recruits. You even point out a little pyramid of yourself when saying that if one of your "recruits" recruits someone else that you would not care as you would both benefit. So that in my eyes means that no matter what, none of your recruits could EVER make as much as you, correct? In turn that means if you buddy Bryce brought you in then you could NEVER make as much as him, see how it is scalable. So even when you say that you have given away recruits to your core six they are still your recruits in the end, just further down the chain.  


Now on to paragraph number three, where you almost had a good point but f***ed up a bit.  Like I said at the end of my first post, Vemma doesn't really scam people, at least not in a direct way. BPs go to places that have a ton of people with similar thoughts and beliefs, for example colleges, churches, etc. This is nothing new, it's just a strategy, and a good one at that. It is easy to gain peoples friendship when you share similarities, I know, I do it all the time. A perfect example is you bringing in your six friends as all of you are similar in one way or another, otherwise you would not be friends. I can almost guarantee that you are either in college or you go to some congregation, and that of course is where you heard of Veema.

Now where you say that McDonalds advertising to "fat people" is the same thing as advertising to colleges and people who need money, you lose me. I do not understand how a fat person (the consumer) compares to someone like you who is supposed to be selling the product not consuming it. You are the middleman in this situation while "fat man" is the end user essentially.

As for the 54% of college students not having jobs, please don't tell me Vemma is your solution. That would create a horrible bubble that would pop in the future making a worse economy than we have now. Yeah the economy sucks, but that's the cycle it goes up and down. It's up to those that are smart to ride the high points and prepare for the lows. I am pretty confident that you are in college so if you take any ECON class that will be one of the fundamental lessons. Plus you would learn about those unemployment rates, they are measured in some pretty weird ways.


So now onto paragraph four.

You say that Vemma is not trying to lead people on into thinking that they are their own business, but reading through your whole paragraph you just disproved me and yourself all at once. I had no idea that you guys were issued w-9 forms. If I am not mistaken that means that at the end of the year you are issued a 1099. I actually do not have much knowledge on tax forms and what not, which is why I have an accountant, but with a 1099, you are essentially a business, just through yourself, hence the ability to write off expenses. If Vemma is 1099ing then I assume they are paying you in some way which means that they are expensing every dollar that you make, which is awesome. They are making money off you on two fronts. Many companies pay people like this as only you are paying 13% instead of half on you and half on the company as an employee, then on top of that you pay gets expensed when you are 1099. So even though you say at the end those who think that they are businesses are wrong, well actually they technically are. lol


Paragraph five.

I cannot remember what I came across for the actual sales when I was looking but $117mil sounds about right. None of the sources that I had found seemed reputable enough for me to cite, but for sure there was no $250mil like Alumni55 stated.

I do not write things for others to see without having some sort of source behind it and I assume the same for others. So since  Alumi55 had no source and I could not backup his/her information then I went ahead and claimed it inaccurate. Thanks for pointing out a more reasonable number that I can conclude as a possible truth on your end and another person helping me to put false claim on Alumni55.

As for the BBB rating that is something that I again only brought up because of Alumni55.

He said something and I went to prove it wrong. I don't really care for BBB and do not care much for the way it works however you say that Vemma's rating reflects no rating for not having sufficient info, and yet they had a rating only a few weeks before I checked it you say? It does not say that they are under review, so by displaying insufficient information I can only assume that the current status has been the same for quite a while unless you can prove otherwise. I have laid out what I was able to find, maybe you know where to
find past ratings or something, like I said I do not care much for BBB. I of course included the link as proof, which you have just confirmed.


Paragraph six.

I apologize if I made my point incorrectly but when I said "not paying for it anymore", I was implying that he was not buying the product to sell. I mean he could still buy the drink if he liked it that much and it made him feel that good I suppose. I myself would not want to do anything with the company out of principle, but then I again I have not found myself in this kind of situation, so I know how I would want to act, but that does not mean that is how I would.

I do not think that I said anything about people recommending network marketing (aka MLM's) not being smart. Truth be told they are a great money maker, it is just about getting in the right one at the right time. If I were to get into Amway now then I would not make that much money, although if I had gotten into Veema back when it first popped up then who knows, I might be on your side.

As for thesaying "BMW Qualified" everywhere, that just bothers me I suppose.  Being a BMW owner, I was kind of surprised that BMW would back this kind of company. Kind of the same way that someone might not buy a product because of where it is built. That bothered me personally, so I included it in my write up, and let's face it that is tricky marketing, which you could argue many companies use, but I was just pointing it out in this case.

As for the car program, the only reason I am unable to comment to much on it is because I have no idea what the 120 reward points equates to. From what I can gather it is an amount that would be much more than $500 since the buy in is $500 to even be eligible plus Veema would be out of business if they gave away cars. Knowing the point conversion would allow me to make a more accurate assessment so if
anyone wants to fill me in...


Paragraph seven.

SEO is something that I am very familiar with(no need to explain it to me), which is why I said that Veema dominates google. They have been very effective in making sure they are at the very top of every page until you get way into page ten where I found this article originally.

So here you call me lazy, ehh we all have our own opinions. Some would say I am not, but whatever. I mean you do seem to agree with the other Veema advocates, which all state that success is no easy thing. So if you do believe that, which I am pretty confident you do, then you have inadvertently complemented me, which I say thank you. Running a business is hard.

I am going to use Alumni55 as an example since he/she was so quick to throw down incomes.

Alumni55 boasts about 15k in 6 months, but let's not forget about taxes, which we ALL PAY. If Veema pays you and then 1099's you at the end of the year you unfortunately owe 13% of your adjusted income, not 7% like an employee. Then let's not forget about how you do not have any kind of health insurance or benefits. In this scenario a lot more money can be made working a real job, I know as these were my numbers not long ago, and I was in college full time, while working full time, so a similar situation (in that aspect).

When you ask how many jobs have I created, I must say that I have created more than your buddy Bryce (in this situation), as earlier you stated you guys receive w-9's, so you have no real job, you are contracted independently. If Veema went out of business tomorrow (which I know it won't) then you will not receive unemployment, you would be on your own.

As for the paying for leased cars. Come on, are you telling me that that is better than getting a retirement plan ready, or saving money on your own. You say that Bryce helped these people into these cars, no dude. It's not that hard to get a lease for these cars, and you are putting YOUR name on it. So when you f*** up
and don't have your 120 points Veema is going to say f you and not pay it that month, where then if you don't pay it your credit gets screwed up. Plus in the end you never end up owning the car, so not that great of an investment.  Although cars as investments are not that great to begin with, different topic though.

Lastly, for you calling me uneducated, that is fine, once again your opinion. Please note I never insult your intelligence in this post, just debate what you have to say, I expect the same respect.
 

Credibility is something that I think neither you or I can claim, as no matter what both us are out for ourselves. It is hard to find selflessness in the world as there theoretically is no such thing. In the end everyone will do what gives them the most satisfaction. I point this out because the satisfaction I receive is hopes that this info I lay out helps others make more informed decisions. I don't know if I can say the same for the others intentions though.  
 

First of all, not sure how much credibility you have.. looks like you don't know much about the company and merely skimmed the website and a couple other sources? Lets see how this goes. Vemma doesn't tell you how easy/difficult it is to recruit BPs. It's almost entirely based off your relationship with your friends or how good you are at making new ones. You claim that with MLMs you are essentially "recruiting your competition" when in reality you are recruiting team members to help build your (and technically, their) organization.

You understand people make money based on the volume of orders going out under them (whether directly recruited or not) every month? Thus, even if one of my "recruits" recruits a mutual friend of ours, I would care less because we both benefit. In fact, after getting my core group of 6 friends on board, I've given a couple of them my recruits because it matters more to me that they have success than me making a quick buck. You call that competition? The only competition we have is to see who can get the most sign ups in a day. 

This was awesome though: "This company is obviously a scam in the way it advertises to people who need money as well as to demographics that are known to have many contacts, i.e. college students." First of all, the company doesn't do any advertising itself, the BPs do, so your beef is with a few individual BPs, not the company. Furthermore, of course they are advertising to people who need more money and college students! This economy sucks, 54% of college grads can't find a job, and isn't getting better soon IMO. People need this. In fact, direct sales have increased dramatically during this recession because people have nothing else to turn to and sometimes find this works. And you're saying Vemma recruiting these people is bad, when McDonalds advertises to fat people and liquor companies advertise to alcoholics...

While people don't file for a business entity, Vemma isn't necessarily trying to lead people on that they own their own business, per se. Rather, I would say they're telling BPs that it's their responsibility to grow their team (business) and Vemma, nor any other BPs, will do it for them. Also, to be successful in this business you need to be a leader (like someone who runs their own business). Also, BPs get W-9 tax forms instead of the employee W-2 form; writing off business expenses and what not in these tax forms might lead people to believe they're business owners... They're not correct, but no harm there. 

As for the $250 mil, that's our projected sales for 2013 so it's not correct (we finished at $117 mil last year I believe). In December, I saw Vemma had an A+ rating. You're correct they have 'No Rating' now, but it's for not having sufficient info to give a rating, not for the complaints filed against them like you say (15 in the last 3 years, BTW). As for us in these communities being "crazy"... As Alex Morton would say: fine. Call me crazy, call me a psychopath, insane, whatever. We call it passion. We're making money and making a positive difference in so many lives. Unless you make millions (OK, even 100,000s) of dollars through residual income, I'm not too concerned with what you or others think. 

It's funny that you say the author is smart for not paying for it anymore when they say in the second sentence "I started to drink product and I do drink Bode Daily and it has helped me." The product helps him, but he's smart for not buying it anymore? And would you say that people who recommend network marketing aren't smart? Because Trump, Kiyosaki, Buffett, and Branson all recommend network marketing. And I don't really understand what your point is with the BMW badges. Vemma has a car program and makes your payments on a BMW, Benz, or Mini of your choice after you hit a certain rank in the co. What, should Vemma hide this awesome incentive because they're not officially affiliated with those care companies? 

Your arguments are really lazy and lack a lot of support (where did you find out Vemma "dominates" Google? Which, BTW, is the same thing most businesses do with SEO). Network marketing is supported by some of the greatest investors in the U.S. and yet I always see you and others complain about it, for whatever reason. I do appreciate small business owners (my dad is one) but you can't get much more snarky than your comment of "'real' business owner". How many jobs have you created and how many lives are you making better? In just 10 months, my friend Bryce Majdick has helped 37 people under the age of 25 get into brand new BMWs and Benzs, as well as helping 100s of others make solid money as well. It's very clear that you don't know much about Vemma and for you to think you do makes you look very uneducated, Chris. 

 I have never read something more incorrect and ignorant in my life. You obivoiusly were not a good or even decent team if you have had such a horrible experience. You have to remember that in this company it is all about the efforts that YOU put into your work. Pyramid schemes straight up tell you from the get go, it's a get rich quick business. Vemma is far from a get rich quick business, if you were trained properly then you would have been told that. Just so everyone knows you only pay the Silver Pack Fee (500) once. You pay 150 after the first month for all your products. Might I remind everyone here that Pyramid Schemes are ILLEGAL. That means that whoever has been apart of this business at all would be in Federal Prison. Do you really think that people like The Phoenix Suns, The Buffalo Bills, Dr. Oz, and Oprah Winfrey would put their names and reputations on the line for a so called small business Pyramid Scheme? Whoever wrote this needs to remember that just because you have had a bad experience with a company does not make them an illegal and bad company. Some jobs are not meant for everyone. I have had nothing but great experiences with Vemma and I can't wait to see where this company takes me! I'm so blessed that I have the top leaders in the company on my team and that I am apart of the fastest growing team in the company!!! Love my Vemma Dream Team<3 Racke'mmmm!

A pyramid scheme by definition is a company that promises profit solely on the referral of others. Meaning that the company stated in the article could not legally be defined as a pyramid scheme since participants do not need to refer anyone in order to theoretically succeed. This is not something that is new, as stated in the article it could be defined as a multilevel marketing strategy. It is obvious from their website that they are advertising a product, but looking around you can find that there are substantial bonuses for bringing in other "brand partners," which is not easy to find as they mask it very well behind made up levels and point systems. They also do a very good job as stated above at dominating Google with links that
say they are not a scam.

The article, the first rebuttal as well as the last one all make good points. That it's really up to the person to sell the product and they really do decide their own success. The best product/idea can't succeed without hard work to support it. Comparing this to a subway franchise however is a horrible comparison. With an MLM you are practically recruiting your own competition. There are only so many people that can sell the same product. "[A] franchise is a distribution channel to build brand identity and attain market dominance for a product or service by providing proven systems," (Pat Deering), thus supporting each other, not competing.

This company is obviously a scam in the way it advertises to people who need money as well as to demographics that are known to have many contacts, i.e. college students. They give people the idea that they are running their own businesses when in reality they are consumers re-selling. Unless you register in the state as a legitimate entity you are not a business, and for you to think so makes you look uneducated Alumni55.

Alumni55 states that Vemma did 250mil in sales which I have no idea where he got that from. As for them being rated with an A on BBB that is also wrong as they are currently unrated for complaints against them. With lies in the beginning of your rebuttal I can only assume you lie about your 14k in 6 months. This brings me to my last point. That people in these communities are crazy. They help the company thrive by spreading lies on their own success when the truth is they
are failing and just can't admit it to others and sometimes even themselves.

So Alumni55, you ask why they havent been shut down if they are a scam, that's because they are not scamming anyone, people like you are. 

A "real" small business owner & college student

By the way, don't insult on the authors grammar, he's already smarter for not paying for that s**t anymore

Here is the BBB Grade

http://www.bbb.org/central-northern-western-arizona/Business-Reviews/vitamins-and-food-supplements/vemma-nutrition-company-in-scottsdale-az-97004349

And this I thought was funny. All over the website you see BMW badges but in this document they say they have no affiliation with BMW, Merc or Mini on the last page. 

http://www.vemma.com/platinumclub/PlatinumClub-OfficialRules.pdf

Considering the grammar the author of that article is not very educated. His points arn't very buisness minded. They do have Sams club? But thats besides the point. In order to succeed in verve you have to know your why. If you set out to be the next Ray Lewis how are you going to do that? 1% make it in pro football? In order to succeed your pasion and belief should be an all time high. Noone pressures you into buying as much product as possible. You choose the product that you enjoy, recommend it to friends, and share the opportunity. You network is built off of brand partners and customers. You get paid to drink you are a consumer. If you join verve and don't do the work and time to succeed you will not. A small percent of people may succeed correct? How may of those people would rather smoke, drink, and party or live life rather than put in blood sweats and tears. Buisnesses only fail when you let them. A buisness is on you if what your doing isn't working change it. If i wanted to make the next taco bell its possible but whats required? Well simple for me to work my freaking butt off. Its financial freedom not a paycheck. YOU do the work and you get rewarded. As we always say "Im not saying its easy but im saying its worth it"

Open a subway, call employees brand partners, initial interview agree to buy 60.00 worth of subs a month and to earn $ you then have to not only sell subs but get customers to join the "sub club" every month for 60.00 or more of subs on a monthly basis. Mind you u have been there a while sold subs no one signed up for "sub club". Subway suggests you buy a gold package of subs to give away to potential subway club partners then u will surely make money.

A couple months later you have subs up to your ears, you have spent about a thousand bucks, you've put in many many hours of selling, educating yourself at seminars that only cost you 39.00 (BYOS subs). Juggling your monthly debit for more product.

Subway says keep trying they know people (especially college students currently) making 4,000.00 week one name floats around of how they suddenly where making money in their sleep.

Meanwhile the owner of the subway and a few friends are flying in their corporate jet to Hawaii, or to watch a game at the Subway lounge.

You must be right alumni55 I am a stupid slacker who didnt give up soon enough!

First, pyramid schemes and scams are illegal. A company that did 250 million in sales last year would be shut down already. The Better Business Bureau rated Vemma with an "A". 

Secondly, a responsible person should be familiar with the return policy if you plan on returning it. 30-day money back and you send it back after 30 days? I don't see how that is the company's fault.

Lastly, sorry that you failed to make money. 50 percent of businesses fail in the first year and 95 percent fail within five years. Was it because you didn't work hard enough? Was it because you were doing it wrong? Or just unlucky? Whatever it is when opening up your own business there is always going to be a risk of failure.

Conclusion, if you opened up a Subway and you didn't make money the first 2 years, would you quit and call it a scam? There is a lot of people making a lot of money, you CAN make more money then people above you. But it is up to the individual, this is not for lazy people that give up. If it was THAT easy everyone in the world would be rich. You got to separate yourself from the average people to be different and great. 

-College Student that made $14,700 in past six months