• Report: #976939

Complaint Review: vom Kammer German Shepherds

  • Submitted: Sun, December 02, 2012
  • Updated: Sun, March 10, 2013

  • Reported By: G — santa fe New Mexico U.S.A.
vom Kammer German Shepherds
1917 Ridge Road Queensbury, New York United States of America

vom Kammer German Shepherds Roberta and Jerry ,Gerald, Katz When a dog is useless financially, they put them down, this has happened TWICE now! Queensbury, New York

*Author of original report: FYI pls go to http://kerschberger.com

*Consumer Comment: Best Breeders

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: concern yourself with actual breeder problems

*Consumer Comment: Your entitled to your own opinion,not you own facts

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: Please get all the facts right.

*Author of original report: Its only slander if incorrect... the truth hurts

*Consumer Comment: SLANDER

*Author of original report: Please READ what I wrote ...

*Consumer Comment: Not true

*General Comment: False Report

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To all who read this. beware who you buy your pup/dog from. ETHICS MORALS are nr1

1) Let this be a warning when you import, then give away, a great dog, that you SEE the vaccination record BEFORE YOU PURCHASE. Cole was completely OVER vaccinated and died due to severe gastro intestinal issues (Not EPI) where he was unable to absorb nutrition.

  Cole who was just 4 yrs old upon arrival in the USA so skinny and his face was so very sad.

For TWO years since I brought him into my life he remained thin, I was able to keep him at 73lbsand muscular though, but then disaster hit, and I lost a litter out of Cole due to Parvo. NEVER had Parvo affected my pups in nine years!

I suspect the low immunity due to over vaccination of Cole's semen passed on to the pups and they were unable to fight it off. The pups were 6 weeks when infected, and 7 weeks when FIVE vets for a week missed it was parvo, with the 6th vet diagnosing it and then it was too late. [continued below]....
..... They were too sick to be saved.

Back to Cole von der Wienerau, his history indicated gastro problems,which were NOT revealed to me. I even asked about him at the Wienerau kennel in Germany, there he had left at age 1, and was 'fine'.  So I was told.  The seller Stefano of Haus Mailand from the United Kingdom also didn't reveal this severe issue. Upon Cole's arrival here, he looked emaciated. It was awful. I put him on a lot of good supplements, had him tested for EPI, blood tested, giardia, you name it, The supplements which worked: probiotics, zyflamend, fiber pills, raw meat meals helped and he gained weight. I was hopeful, but the weight gain stopped at 73 lbs.  He looked good though the diarea never stopped.  

Once he got here i started asking Stefano of Haus Mailand repeatedly what had been going on with Cole. He finally owned up to it that he'd been having diarea there too and his vet said to give him yogurt and pasta and that would work.
The pasta somewhat helped, but my diet worked better so I stuck to that.
He was very energetic and happy here throughout. But the diarea continued.

I also contacted the Wienerau Kennel again and asked about Cole, as this is not something that just starts. He too now
mentioned Cole did have intestinal issues. 

HERE is my point.:
These irresponsible vets and breeders know of this issue, and yet, continue to vaccinate any poor dog with whatever it takes to get them out of their lives and dump them on the unsuspecting responsible breeder to clean up their mess.  Just so to make a buck.

When I saw his vaccination record from Europe I had a heart attack - It was utterly disgusting. Especially the HIGHLY TOXIC Rabies was completely out of control! This was because Cole had been in the UK and was sent back and forth, everytime they did that another load of toxins were pumped into this great dog.

WAIT, it gets worse.... Now we go to where vom Kammer is a cruel breeder

So I lost the entire litter to parvo and will never breed again. I don't have the stomach to do that to creatures I love with all my being.  End of that. They were so gorgeous and playful and loving.

At that point, as a hobby breeder, and extremely distraught due to the loss of eight gorgeous pups, and couldn't afford to keep 10+ shepherds without the offset of two litters a year, decided to adopt out (not sell!) the younger ones to homes whom had already dogs of mine. But not Cole.

However, Vom Kammer German Shepherds http://vomkammer.com/ whom I considered a friend, immediately jumped on offering to take Cole and swore their vet could heal Cole. My condition was he'd NOT live in their (awful) kennels as they are not for my dogs, mine always lived like pets.

I gave them the entire rundown of the diet in writing too, he was doing well on, recommended he next needed to be seen by a CLASSICAL HOMEOPATHIST, and told them not to do anything drastic with his diet.

WRONG move, one which I will regret for the rest of my life. They claim they  did $3,000 in testing which they never proved, (& a waste of time) but never ever followed any of my instructions of things that worked for him other than the pasta. A year and a half of my work where I finally kept him at 73 lbs. (PS: his Giardia did return as their vets test returned, but we all should know how bad of parasite that is, of course, and the treatment is extremely harsh on the intestines as well.)

He arrived there the 20th of January 2012, and six or seven months later ( I presume) they put him to sleep???

And to make it more disgusting, I only found this out when I wrote them to ask if they wanted to return him to me at my expense since they'd removed him from their website and I offered to have him live his life out here since they clearly didn't want to use him.

The RUDENESS is that I had to write them twice to get an answer.  Not even a phone call explaining themselves,saying how sorry they were.   

Still have not heard anything....by the way. 
Its too late now, and I need to warn the public of this immense ripoff they committed.

Another thing to keep in mind is that it took me FOUR years to get vom Kammer (who are commercial breeders breeding 12+ litters per year) to start testing ALL their dogs for Degenerative Myelopathy, a test extremely inexpensive ($35 per dog) and 100% reliable to eradicate a disease so horrific its beyond measure.

That was my 2nd condition for them getting Cole for free.  So, they did for a while.  I think they stopped doing it as the new imported female was NOT tested and could be at risk. 

Since I bred very little and always sold out quickly, I send them plenty of business leads over the years which I now get paid back with complete inconsiderate non compassionate silence, a TRUE animal lover would have given me the option to take him back, which was my 3rd condition, when Cole was to retire, I'd be the first to have the choice to take him.    Well i wanted him back...

but NO,THAT too was taken from us!

They did this before with another male dog (not one of mine, of course) who had fistulas.  This is a controllable treatable illness, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiMI4-phkRw but they got tired of it and put him down.  Since, of course, he was unadoptable because of it, off he goes.   So they did the same to Cole EVEN THOUGH HE HAD OPTIONS TO COME BACK TO ME!!!! ??????  

The vom kammer kennel set up is deplorable.   I was there once in snowy December of 08 and it was a very sad sight to see dogs locked up like that.   Outdoor small chain link kennels with only tarps to protect them from the elements.  They even admitted their dogs don't get out much due to lack of time and never get to play with the other dogs because they get in fights.  Anti social dogs should not be bred with! 

I wrote a long polite email asking them to have their vet call my vet with a complete diagnosis of Cole. Never happened. Roberta Katz of vom Kammer told me in a very brief inconsiderate email that after and Ultra Sound their vet diagnosed he was dying from the inside out.   which is impossible for a Ultra Sound to diagnose.   

NO ultrasound can do that...!!!

So I implore that you only buy from SMALL NON commercial breeders who breed 2 or 3 litters a year, and not at the same time!   Litters are to be spaced apart to receive proper care and socialization!  Or get a great pure bred dog from a Rescue organization!   Also, to breeders where you can go to SEE and meet the parents and the dogs, how they live and are NOT kenneled -  that they are tested for not only hip/elbows, but also DEGENERATIVE MYELOPATHY, what are they fed? Are they titled? and that you did your home work WHAT IS A GOOD FOOD. its in this order:  raw, dehydrated raw, canned, kibble from a reliable source. Look up Dr. Karen Becker on her many videos on youtube about nutrition etc

I hope to have helped at least several unsuspecting pup buyers from making the mistake of their lives.   These commercial breeders have got to be held accountable and only you the buyer can make that judgement! 

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 12/02/2012 01:01 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/vom-Kammer-German-Shepherds/Queensbury-New-York-12804/vom-Kammer-German-Shepherds-Roberta-and-Jerry-Gerald-Katz-When-a-dog-is-useless-financia-976939. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
3Author 5Consumer 2Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Author of original report

FYI pls go to http://kerschberger.com

AUTHOR: G - ()

In the interest of keeping the record straight.  

KAREN: As to this report, everything that is stated against Vom Kammer is false!!! and can be backed up by vet records... as Cole never lived at Vom Kammer  and it was asked of us that he live only in a house setting, there for he was  living at my house with My Husband, myself, and my 2 children, as requested by Gina.

I requested all vet records from vom Kammer after I found out Cole had been put to rest.   Never did I receive them.   I then thought it may be more productive if I ask that my vet here in Santa Fe NM speak with their vet.  That too was denied. 


 Karen:   Just to clarify Cole came to us weighing just 67 lbs, looking horrible. As the saying goes....Buyer beware...in this case it should be...reader be aware and know all the facts about the situation first. If anyone would like to know anything regarding Cole please feel free to contact me as I was the person who cared for him on a daily basis....

Repetition of false statements does not make them true.  Cole was NOT 67lbs when he arrived in NY.  He was 67lbs when he arrived from Europe and was at my home where he increased to 73lbs but never over that.  Perhaps you are confusing those 2 bits of information as Roberta was aware of Cole's condition from the time he arrived in the USA.   He was 73lbs when he arrived in NYC. 

Let us not forget (or add) that Cole was nearly stolen on his flight to NYC.  He was MISSING for over 7 hours from the Atlanta airport.  Per Jerry Katz Cole arrived in NY with ALL  the airport labels (ie: ABQ-ATL & ATL-NYC)  missing from his crate.  He had been taken/stolen? unauthorized by "someone" from the airport.   This dog does NOT need such stressers to his already compromised gut!   It took a severe amount of threats from myself as well as Gerald Katz to Delta airlines to make him reappear.   I was ready to jump on a plane to Atlanta.  My point is had he looked that bad would someone have attempted to steal him?

  That his regiment of by me proposed foods were not adhered to is evident that he lost weight that quickly.   Lets face it, Cole was with me for a year and a half and thrived on his all natural and free life style.   I take FULL responsibility for sending him away.  

Karen:   I was told by Gina that I could use Cole as a breeding Male after seeing him from the moment that he arrived I knew that something drastic was wrong with him, this is a dog that should never had been used for breeding. As Gina stated in her post she was told from the orginal owner that he had some kind of intestinal issue. But, Gina did breed him with horrible results!! 

Again repetition does not make these claims truthful.   Its simply reaching to state that due to his unindentified condition by ANY vet his pups lost their battle to parvo.   And if I may add to any reader who may have a dog with this strange condition, ask your vet about a FECAL TRANSPLANT from a healthy animal. 

Karen:  Maybe..the public should be warned about Gina and her breeding program...since she gave up on Shepherds and is now breeding Chihuahuas..

http://kerschberger.com  should suffice the reader to see i don't breed any dog, cat, horse or whathaveyou.   "warning"?  again,  reaching for???  I don't have any complaints from my dog owners. 

Also, I would like to know what kind of protection her animals have from her. as Vom Kammer Kennels is a licensed Kennel and is inspected by NYS Dept of Agriculture twice a year and also by the American Kennel Club yearly.

I'm glad she brought that up as AKC is a joke.   All AKC will tell you is that you have to have your papers in order.  They don't INSPECT kennels.  Those were  Roberta's exact words to me at one time.   You're confused with the European equivalent of the AKC.   With AKC you HAVE to be licensed if you register more than 3 litters per year.   I was always under that. ALL AKC wants is to bring fees in for registration - ie: first a litter fee, then a registration fee - any fee they can come up with.  On top of that AKC consideres itself a NOT FOR PROFIT and makes MILLIONS per year.  When you file a complaint with them it goes to a "case manager" gets shoved in the pile and that is it.  AKC is NOT an oversee-er.  All they are interested in is your money. 

vom kammer however bred at that time about 12 to 15 litters per year.  Where does one have the time for pups is beyond me with no full time employee help.  Does the reader realize how much time that involves?  One wonders.

http://kerschberger.com/colewienerau.htm

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#2 Consumer Comment

Best Breeders

AUTHOR: pimess - ()

 I have a von Kammer shepard and have never seen such a caring breeder as Roberta and Jerry. They open there homes and kennels up to us any time. Roberta GAVE us one of her dogs so that she could retire early and enjoy a good life with one of her pups.I will always refer them to anyone that compliments our dog on how well breed she is> For you to say they are not good breeders is a completly incorrect statement. Just a tour of there house with pictures and ashes of some of there dogs shows the love they have for all there dogs.

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#3 REBUTTAL Owner of company

concern yourself with actual breeder problems

AUTHOR: Patrick - ()

 If you all gave as much attention to back yard breeders as you do responsible breeders ,you would serve everyone in a much more responsible capacity.  How about stopping irresponsible breeding of pit bulls,,,,,mother to brother,,,sister to son,,only to set them up to fight.  Oh excuse me.. that would be racist.. right..but to hell with the dogs..   can't wait for my next Vom Kammer sheperd.

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#4 Consumer Comment

Your entitled to your own opinion,not you own facts

AUTHOR: Patrick - ()

 I am a long time customer of Vom Kammer. Roberta has never mistreated an animal.She has always been truthful with us and provided the highest quality sheperds. If you have the guts to admit that your a past customer of Vom Kammer,then you should be more than happy to tell everyone how long you left an eight week old puppy sitting on the dock in Albuquerque. We will be purchasing our third Vom Kammer Sheperd this winter.

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#5 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Please get all the facts right.

AUTHOR: Katey-Anne - (United States of America)

I need to correct the "fact" that the dog that had fiscal was put down. This is a lie. The dog's name is Campino though he is nickname Timmi. When he was retired from breeding 2 years ago he found a new home with me. Timmi lives like a king having control of the sofa, plenty of toys, treats, and food. He will be turning 8 years old this June. If proof is in the picture feel free to look me up on Facebook to see this "dead'' dog is alive, well, and very happy. Thank you to Roberta and Jerry for my 4-legged best friend. 
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#6 Author of original report

Its only slander if incorrect... the truth hurts

AUTHOR: G - (U.S.A.)

We always have 'friends' who champion us. That IS a given.  As is in the above rebuttal by Alisia, whom I do not know.     What is correct about vom Kammer is that they are good to their customers.  They schmooze wine and dine them and they do take back dogs if it doesn't work out and then re-sell the dog.   From time to time, in desperate times, they will actually give one away, but that is not often.  

They are better sales people than I am, that is for sure.  I can't talk anyone into anything I don't believe in, and it remains a fact that THEY JUMPED ON TAKING COLE.  

I was very hesitant and will regret that bad decision for the remainder of my life.  THEY PROMISED they could / would fix his issue.   In fact, he was doing better here, but I was in shambles over the loss of my Y litter and didn't think straight.   If you can't imagine what that feels like to loose a litter you  are responsible for bringing into the world, then got to know for 7 weeks, then just imagine loosing a child.  THAT is how it affected me x EIGHT pups.  

They are buried on my land, I stop and greet them 4 to 5 times a day on our walks.  I say their names at night before I go to sleep. First, Red, White, Blue, Pinky, Furrbal, Yannika and YoYo.? They are not 'just' a bunch of pups to me... They are the pups of Cole and Mua, the great grandpups of Zuni, the love of my life.  The vet who had to put them to sleep was in tears.  Three days after they passed I went into physical shock.  

Then to hear that their truly great Sire Cole, because of my lack of judgement shortly after their passing,  was put down too without notification or option to have him returned to me, just after loosing the great Zuess vom Kerschberger, simply is too much to bear.    I still don't know what happened to Cole.  Was not given the option to have his ashes given to me, or was he just cremated with a bunch of other dogs?  He DESERVED for me to pay for him to come back to me.  There are even more options to make a dog with his intestinal issues healthy again by a simple fecal transplant from a healthy dog.   He DESERVED for me to pay for his cremation and have his ashes returned to me so his final resting place was one where he was truly happy. 

Let us not forget Campino vom Tatzend who also was put down for insufficient reasons by vom Kammer because he became an inconvenience.  

I beg everyone to only get a great dog or pup, no matter what the breed is, from a home grown, one litter at the time, lovingly raised by their breeder IN the home.   This is the only way you can be assured your breeder cares about the DOGS more than he or she does for the people they sell to. 

My dogs ALWAYS came first before their new owners.  This is AS IT SHOULD BE.  Like it or not.  This is how I obtained the right owners/families for my dogs, by being no holds barred when it came to asking questions.   I turned more people down than I sold to.  But when you are a commercial breeder, you don't have that luxury.    Commercial breeders take short cuts, they only do the minimum and look for the glory and the cash flow... 


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#7 Consumer Comment

SLANDER

AUTHOR: Ali - (United States of America)

I was going to write a long rebuttal however I think this can be summed up with few words.

Gina a self proclaimed expert/ethical/responsible breeder who only cares about the betterment of the GSD breed ......
Chose to breed Cole a dog with obvious malabsorption syndrome and failure to thrive to her female who was in God only knows what condition.  Really, what ethical breeder would do such a thing???
Thank God you are no longer breeding.

Gina dumped Cole...the dog that she states she loved more than anyone else could.  She CHOSE to do that and was in no way forced to ship him 3,000 miles away!!!

Blaming everyone else for her own acts of cruelty and stupidity makes it apparent that she cannot sleep at night or is off of her medication!!!

Who breeds a dog in such condition?????  That says it all and discredits her without going any further into her ridiculous story.

Vom Kammer is not to blame.  They did nothing wrong and in fact are a fabulous breeder that is licensed by NY state and AKC inspected.   If I were them I would hire a lawyer in short order for such slanderous accusations.

Alisia
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#8 Author of original report

Please READ what I wrote ...

AUTHOR: G - (U.S.A.)

This is in response to Mrs Karen D.   whom generously took in Cole.  And that was the only reason why I allowed Cole to go there.    So he would not be in a kennel as mentioned.  

  The unsuspecting buyer must be made  aware that there are flaws in her writing, as Cole was not  67lbs and looked  as in the pictures.   THAT is an incorrect.  Mrs. D is just sticking up for vom Kammer but is unable to swallow that their entire approach was extremely insensitive to me and ended up in Cole's death.   Mrs. D was not responsible for ANY WRONG DOING.  But I doubt she loved him the way I did, hence my regret for letting him go under duress.  

 I was ASKED to give Cole to vom Kammer, I did NOT offer.  

 I ALSO was NOT aware of Cole's condition as is implyied  PRIOR to his arrival from Europe (U.K)  as, of course, I would not have spent $5,000 on bringing him to me.   Here you can see that a vet certificate CAN NOT BE TRUSTED, as the GErman Vet should NOT have allowed him to go in his emaciated condition and should have brought up cruelty charges against the owner / seller / handler in Germany, and should have confiscated or reported them to animal control in Germany so as to avoid further suffering of any animals.  
 I have NO REGRETS that I did bring him to me except her had received one more rabies vaccination due to having to make the flight across to the USA.  Adding. no doubt, to his condition.  
I made vom Kammer fully aware of his condition, as mentioned in my initial report, not only that, vom Kammer was very aware of this condition from the day Cole arrived with me.  She just thought it would be an easy fix for her vet.  

So there are NO lies in my story.  

I have NO interest in knocking out the competition as I stopped breeding, but after seeing a commericial breeder in action, I realize that money talks and the rest walks. The dogs do not come first.  

 I never made money of my tiny breeding program.  It was about the betterment of the breed, and my dogs lived well.  Vom kammer so proudly states they live on 105 acres in the Adirondack Mountains.  Well, they use 2 acres of that, the rest is all deer tick infested impenatrable forest.  I may only have 10 fully fenced acres, but all of those are playgrounds for my dogs.  

To the person who has 4 of vom kammers dogs.   I have one family with five of my dogs, so what.  What point are you trying to make?  You have money?  Or you live in a dangerous neighborhood...   Because you have whatever amounts of dogs makes you no expert on breeding, breed, training, vaccination protocols, dog health and you probably feed Royal Canine GSD food.  That food is crap food, as that is fed and recommended by vom kammer.  You probably also give them the supplements they recommend so they can get a commission on those...    Another subject I could not convince them that variaty in food is what is needed for dogs.  Yes that does take research.   To boot,  for all we know you could have dogs at risk for Degenerative Myelopathy.  I hope not, because I love dogs and don't want them to suffer nor their owners.  

And IF you want to open a can of worms, do you find it OK that the females at vom Kammer are bred AT EVERY CYCLE? That is every six months!!!   That means, for example, every time your wife has a child, you get her pregnant right after, and do that again and again and again.   

Not only that, the continuous vaccination protocols change a dogs DNA.  Just as  much as the exterior (hair, eye color, coat length etc)  is made up of DNA and can be easily manipulated, so is the interior of the dog's DNA (organs in other words) and is easily manipulated by vaccines, frontline etc products, over processed foods as well over time, ALL contributing to the weakening of the breeds.    My friend way back when in Europe had a GSD who was never vaccinated, was fed raw food and lived over 17 years.   Our dogs are geriatric at age 8!!!

Do your homework.  That is all that this is about.  I can't get Cole back, but I can only hope to open some inquiring minds 

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#9 Consumer Comment

Not true

AUTHOR: J A C - (United States of America)

We have 4 dogs purchased from Vom Kammer Shepherds and we have visited the kennels many times over the last 8 years.  The Katz' are responsible breeders, treat their dogs well and we have never seen any of the conditions this person describes.  Anyone who has the honor of owning a Vom Kammer shepherd knows this report is not true.

We have continued getting GSDs from the Katz' because they are careful, ethical breeders.
This person/hobby breeder bred a sick dog?  I think that reflects how unreliable this report is.  My advice to anyone interested in getting a quality dog- visit the breeder yourself and see the conditions.  Expect to be interviewed by the breeder because a responsible breeder is careful about who they let their dogs go to.  
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#10 General Comment

False Report

AUTHOR: Karen - (United States of America)

As to this report, everything that is stated against Vom Kammer is false!!! and can be backed up by vet records... as Cole never lived at Vom Kammer  and it was asked of us that he live only in a house setting, there for he was  living at my house with My Husband, myself, and my 2 children, as requested by Gina.

 Just to clarify Cole came to us weighing just 67 lbs, looking horrible. As the saying goes....Buyer beware...in this case it should be...reader be aware and know all the facts about the situation first. If anyone would like to know anything regarding Cole please feel free to contact me as I was the person who cared for him on a daily basis....

I was told by Gina that I could use Cole as a breeding Male after seeing him from the moment that he arrived I knew that something drastic was wrong with him, this is a dog that should never had been used for breeding. As Gina stated in her post she was told from the orginal owner that he had some kind of intestinal issue. But, Gina did breed him with horrible results!! 

Maybe..the public should be warned about Gina and her breeding program...since she gave up on Shepherds and is now breeding Chihuahuas..

Also, I would like to know what kind of protection her animals have from her. as Vom Kammer Kennels is a licensed Kennel and is inspected by NYS Dept of Agriculture twice a year and also by the American Kennel Club yearly.

As i said before please contact me for all information regarding Cole...

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