• Report: #1092008

Complaint Review: WINDDANCER WOLVES

  • Submitted: Tue, October 15, 2013
  • Updated: Tue, October 15, 2013

  • Reported By: sandstorm 56 — SPRING HILL Florida
WINDDANCER WOLVES
6005 ALAMO ROAD SE CARROLLTON, Ohio USA

WINDDANCER WOLVES LORRAINE SMITH DECIETFUL BREEDER CARROLLTON Ohio

*Author of original report: To Tony in Texas

*Consumer Comment: Refuses to refund or give pup!

*General Comment: Getting the facts straight

*General Comment: Wind Dancer Wolves Carrollton Ohio

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In December of 2012, we spoke with Lorraine Smith of Winddancer Wolves in Carrollton, Ohio. We told her that we were looking for a people-friendly puppy. She told us that she has puppies that are well socialized. She takes the time to train them, expose them to situations, sites and sounds so that they are acclimated to be with people. (see her website).

 

Mrs. Smith said historically the puppies are born mid to late March. This would present a problem for us as we told Mrs. Smith that we would be out of the country when the puppies would be ready to go to their new homes. She convinced us that if we would take a puppy from this next letter she would do extensive socialization.

 

We also requested pictures of the mother and father of the future puppy. We requested pictures of the parents at least six times ? never would Mrs. Smith give us a picture.

 

Mrs. Smith never returned any of our calls during a five month period after she received our deposit. When we picked up the puppy May 19, 2013, she told me she only commits to making one call ? on the birth of the puppies.

 

When we arrived to pick up the puppy early afternoon on May 19th, 2013, we were met at the gate to Mrs. Smith?s deck with the puppy in her hands. Upon us approaching the puppy, the puppy shook uncontrollably and when handed to Bruce, and the puppy pooped all over him. We were told not to put the puppy down on the ground as she feared it would run off. We were told that the puppy was shaking, pooping and acting this way because it missed its littermates, and that it was sick due to eating bad chicken, and also that a group of motorcycles had just driven by. The puppy smelled terrible when it was handed to us. Mrs. Smith said everything would be fine, so we took the puppy home.

 

After a few days at home trying to work with this puppy, it never stopped trembling. It ran away from us all the time. On a few outings: a visit to PetSmart, the vets, a simple ride in the car, it pooped all over us and inside its crate. It constantly hid from us every chance it had. The puppy would pee and poop wherever it was hiding and then sleep in it. It would crawl up under the couch to hide. One day we had company come over and when we tried to pick her up and show her to the other people, she ran away. When we were finally able to pick her up, she shook uncontrollably and again pooped all over us and would squirm to get away.

 

We called Mrs. Smith on May 24th and told her that this was not the people-friendly puppy that we had requested. Mrs. Smith said ?yes, it is your fault. You picked the puppy up when it was too old.? She told us that she had not been able to socialize the puppy due to the fact that her brother had been ill and passed away shortly after the birth of the puppies. She had been in mourning for many weeks and was incapable of doing any people-interactive events to acclimate our puppy as she had promised us when we verbally contracted to buy a puppy from her. She stated that she was still in mourning due to the death of her brother.

 

She said that perhaps this puppy was not a good fit for us and that she was willing to work with us on the return of this puppy and a refund of our money. Mrs. Smith stated that upon receipt of the puppy, she would immediately give us back $750.00. Then, in a couple of weeks she would refund the remaining $750.00. We agreed to these terms of the refund.

 

We shipped the puppy back to her on May 27, 2013. The puppy arrived at the Cleveland, Ohio airport at 14:15 p.m. and was signed for by Mrs. Smith at 14:30 p.m.

 

After not receiving any refund, we took Mrs. Smith to Carrollton, Ohio small claims court. We were awarded the full amount, $1,500. As we waited at the clerk?s office for the paperwork, a court employee looked up Mrs. Smith?s past activity. It appears that for the last ten years, she has had a dozen or so cases ruled against her including some from regular civil suits. She has not paid anyone. It appears the larger law suits tried to garnish whatever they could and were unsuccessful. There is nothing to garnish or file a lien against.

 

Although Mrs. Smith would love to sell you a pup, if any circumstance occurs (female does not get pregnant, female loses puppies, or a small litter is born), there will be no refunds ? period. You will never recover the money you have paid.

 

Mrs. Smith will not show you her breeding facilities, breeding animals, or even pictures of the animals. She is deceitful and dishonest. Is this the type of business person you want to do business with?

 

With all the negative things written about us, being that Mrs. Smith is a pillar of the community, we obtained more information that would support our position. You know Bobby Thompson was a pillar of this country, visiting with President Busch twice. He now has been accused of fraud and will soon being going to trial. We mentioned the lawsuits against Mrs. Smith, and she said they were medical. As all the lawsuits are ?public domain?, we obtained copies of most, maybe all, since 2004.

42% of the over $10,000 dollars awarded in these lawsuits are for a purchase contract breach. 33% are from a couple of wolf commitments. This makes a total of 75% which are definitely not medical associated. The remaining lawsuits are from charge accounts. If Mrs. Smith is anything like the rest of us, only a percentage could possibly be from medical. We went through the courthouse which you can do if you still do not believe us.

For anyone new thinking of getting a wolfdog you should look at the web page: http://texx-wolf-tails.webs.com/wolfdogscomparison.htm. This is an exceptional piece of work with concise descriptions of whatever wolf to dog mix you may be thinking about. If you are still thinking of a wolf to dog mix of more than 50%, I would recommend you read ?Part Wild? by Ceiridwen Terrell.

At what age should you get your dog? As in everything there are pluses and minuses. Let?s start with the six weeks age. The plus is that your dog is shipped where you want and cannot get otherwise. The dog has its shots and health certificate. Do not assume Mrs. Smith does this for the well being of the dog. We shipped our dog back to her from Tampa. It cost us $251.29 (including all taxes) on United Cargo, $36 for an appropriate size crate, $40 for a health certificate (without shots), lets add $30 for shots, and $6 gas to drive to the airport for a total of $363.29. Mrs. Smith charges $500 for a 27% profit ? that is a lot considering you just bought a dog from her. Our wildlife specialist above forgot to tell you that wolves start weaning their cubs at 5 weeks (per ?The Wolf Almanac? by Robert H. Busch p.83) ? nature may know best. Ceiridwen Terrell that wrote ?Part Wild? researches everything to the nth detail. (For inheriting genes of breeding out wildness, she went to a breeder to actually see how her claim panned out ? it did not appear to be any better than other good wolf breeders. So she flew to Russia to see how their claim of gene inherited domestication was accomplished, it appears they fudged on what they called domesticated.)

Ms. Terrell decided 4 weeks to be the best age to get her wolfdog ? more time for bonding. Our current wolfdog we got at 4 weeks, and she has bonded so well she either believes she is human or we are wolves ? but we are all the same. We did have trouble feeding (the breeder said there would be no problem), but a few days on goats milk, and Gerber baby food (chicken) got us to where we could get her eating well. She is absolutely the best animal anyone could have. She is a wolfdog ? she does not do any dog tricks, and she is very independent (she casts her vote on all activities). We are retired, and did 2 hour shifts (including night times) for training. We only used positive reinforcement, and no punishments ? it takes tons longer than dog training. Good luck on whatever you decide.


This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 10/15/2013 05:42 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/WINDDANCER-WOLVES/CARROLLTON-Ohio-44615/WINDDANCER-WOLVES-LORRAINE-SMITH-DECIETFUL-BREEDER-CARROLLTON-Ohio-1092008. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Author of original report

To Tony in Texas

AUTHOR: sandstorm 56 - ()

Tony, I wish that you would have seen my ripoff post sooner.  I am sorry to hear that you too are a victim of Lorraine Smith and her scams.

My suggfestion to you is to contact the Ohio Attornet General.  His office contacted us last year to get more information about all these claims against her!  He had apparently seen and heard of our small claims court actions as well as her huge credit card debts. They had us complete several pages of paperwork and I guess from there, they were going to do something.

Most-likley, you will never see your money again.  But ripoff notices like this will help people in the future and perhaps put this thief out of business.

Good luck to you.  I also suggest that you go to her facebook page and post a comment.  Us honest people need to get the word out about her deceptions.

 

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#2 Consumer Comment

Refuses to refund or give pup!

AUTHOR: Tony in Texas - ()

Ok, in regard to finding a reputable breeder I was curious if anyone else has had $3,500 taken by Winddancer Wolves aka Lorraine Smith in Ohio? I paid her in full for a high content wolfdog puppy from her 2014 litter. She calls me one day and tells me that the entire litter drowned because she was in hospital and her kids did not get to the pups. I was asleep when I was calle dand given this terrible news as I had been awaiting for over six months for the litter to be born, at that time Ishe said that I would have pick of the 2015 litter and I stated ok at that point.

Then when I called a few days later for a refund instead she said I stated that I would get a pup from the 2015 litter and that since I said that she had paid everyone else back their deposits. Well I changed my mind and got a high content wolfdog pup from another breeder and I have constantly tried by phone calls and email to get in touch with her and she refuses to even take my calls or respond to my emails now. I to this day have not got my money back or any pictures to look at for upcoming or current litters from this woman.

She in one phone call several months ago said she would get me my money back after she was paid from the 2015 litter deposits, still no money, calls or pup. Winddancer still appears to have an active website selling pups it appears. At this point if she refuses to correct this I will be looking to file formal crimninal charges against her as it appears that civil actions do no good with this individual as is stated in previous reports.

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#3 General Comment

Getting the facts straight

AUTHOR: Jenna - ()

As a daughter of Lorraine Smith, I would like to respond and make some correction about lies that are being told from someone that hasn’t been to our home in over 7 years and isn’t a neighbor but I was friends with her daughter and she didn’t like my mom standing up for me about some bad comments she made about me.  I am going to respond to this line by line so bear with me.   Yes, we know exactly who wrote this because you were the only person that knew we had the baby deer because we called you for milk.  The deer was here for such a short time no one else knew it was here.  I will explain where the deer went when I get to that part.  Wow, this is so low of you and shows what kind of person you are.

 

I am commenting concering a woman that got ripped off on a wolf puppy she bought from Lorraine Smith in Carrollton, Ohio. The business is called Wind Dancer Wolves. Lorraine does not raise the puppies in the house and that is why they are afraid and antisocial.

My mom does raise the puppies in the house, my brother, sister and I have helped her with the bottle feeding over the years.  Now my nephews help too. 

She has wolves everywhere and there dogs houses are falling apart.

We have had dog house chewed up but mom buys new dog houses when they need replaced.  She buys them from a man in his 80’s to support him.  He has made very nice dog houses that she has paid allot of money for.

She over breeds

Mom doesn’t breed her wolfdogs if she doesn’t have deposits for their litters.  That is what a responsible breeder does.

 and her children are her slaves.

Any child growing up on a family has chores that we are responsible for.  We are not her slaves and get paid for the work we do.

She sets in the house and the children do all the work.

Mom doesn’t sit in the house and anybody that truly knows her knows she is out feeding, watering, cleaning, putting up fences and anything else that needs done with us alongside her.  When we do our chores, sometimes we are the only one out there because maybe someone hadn’t made it home yet or mom is on the phone helping someone with their wolfdog.  People call all the time wanting help with their wolfdogs and mom is more than happy to help.

She has a bad attitude and

My mom doesn’t have a bad attitude, she is a pretty happy person that looks for the good in everything.  She is a pretty down to earth person that tries to get along with everyone.

 has been turned in to the humane society several times.

My mom was turned into the humane society once because the person that called said she did not feed or water our horses for 5 days and they came out, took pictures, investigate and closed the case because the claims made about her were not true.  The humane officer told her they were almost too fat.

Problem is she is friends with the humane officer Shirl Berry of Carroll County.

I am an adult now and have never heard her until she came to our home over the horses.  My mom has never had her as a friend and she doesn’t talk to her on the phone or in person. 

Lorraine gets free horses from humane societies and sales them for profit.

My mom doesn’t get free horses from the humane society, they take in cats and dogs to foster out because there isn’t a building to house any animals in.  They don’t horses in.  The horses my mom has gotten were bought at an auction where they were going to be slaughtered with the exception of one that was starved by my aunts cousin and my mom was contacted to take her and another because they were going to shoot them.  Why don’t you provide proof of what you are saying.   Mom has receipts to prove differently.  As for selling the horses, mom only sold two private horses.  The ones rescued were donate for therapeutic riding and to a 4-h advisor to be used by children that didn’t have their own horses.  She gave one horse to a little girl who had been in a car accident with her dad and was depressed because of her injuries.  The horse became her best friend.

They are under fed and neighbors have hauled hay to them and thrown it over the fence so the poor things dont starve.

When my mom gets horses from the auction they are always underweight.  She has the vet see them, gets their hooves taken care of and they are put on a feeding schedule to get weight on them.  We did have one neighbor come and throw hay over our fence but it was because they cleaned their barn out and the bales were busted.  They came and ask my mom and dad if they would want it for the horses.  My dad went with him and together they threw it over the fence because the bails couldn’t be saved.

She has a white artic fox tied in her front yard on a short chain out in the hot sun and never gets to do anything but set there.

Freddie is our fox and she is on a chain out in the yard but her chain is 30’ long and hooked to a ground anchor giving her a 60’ circle to run in.  She spends time off her chain with us and has a pen she goes in to be off the chain.  She doesn’t like being in the pen and likes being out on the chain.  That is how her previous owner kept her for the almost 4 years they had her.  Freddie has bushes he can get under and a house to get into but often she lays out on the knoll of the yard watching everyone go by.  She gets toys and water bottles with water in them to play with.  She loves water bottles and chases them everywhere.  When she is done, she chews on them until they are flat and all the water is gone.  She is very sweet and lots of people have met her, she loves getting her belly rubbed.

She has Savannah cats she breeds for money and they are outside in kennels.

We did have Savannah cats but only for a couple of years and mom hasn’t had any of them for the last 5 years.  They were outside because both male and female cats in that breed spay.  If you talk to Savannah breeders the housing is outside as a rule of thumb.  Mom only had a couple of litters and gave every one of them away including all the adults.

She had a sheltie she locked in the basement and it died.

This one hurts most of all.  Our sheltie was a family member and never spent a day in the basement let alone outside.  He went everywhere with us even when we traveled or went camping.  He was treated like one of the kids and even loved going to dairy queen with us.  He was always the first to the van anytime we went somewhere.   He did die because he was beat up by a dog believed to belong to a neighbor.  He died from his injuries and it makes me very mad for someone to say he was left in the basement to die.  Trevor was my mom’s shadow and he slept with her every night.  My mom still misses him.

She caught a baby deer and had it in the basement, when it died it was fed to the wolves.

We did find a baby deer.  We watched it all day to see if the mother would come back for it but she didn’t.  Coyotes were trying to kill it when we decided to get it.  It didn’t die, it was turned over to a wildlife rehabilitator not fed to the wolfdogs. 

 She feed new baby ducklings to the cats.

My mom loves ducks and never fed any baby ducks to any cats. 

 You cannot get near her wolves and she keeps the place fenced and locked so no one can see what goes on.

Our place is fenced and locked because drunken people were coming to our house in the middle of the night bringing their friends to see the wolfdogs.  We have a fenced yard for the protection of my nephews as well as our dogs to keep them from getting hit on the road when they are loose.  I think that is being responsible.

She has donkeys in  dog kennels.

Our mini donkeys were not kept in dog kennels…kennel panels were used to put a fenced area for them to be in when they weren’t in the barn and out grazing.  However, the mini donkeys have been in new homes since the middle of May with the exception of one that went to a new home a week ago.

She has hassled the elderly man across the road so much, he doesnt know what to do.

Mom doesn’t bother him at all.  It is the other way around.  He is the one that followed my mom in the store and called her names.  He use to be nice to us when he drank all the time but when he quit drinking he got mad because we couldn’t help him one day because we were going away.  On another day he wanted my brother to stop what he was doing to come and get something from him.  My brother asked him to give him a minute and he got mad.  So he tried making all kinds of trouble for my family because he wanted his daughter to buy this place and move in.

She has a bad attitude and is no more than a puppy mill and cat mill.

My mom only breeds when she has deposits.  Sometimes she may have two litters of wolfdogs in a year or sometimes she may have three litters in a year.  All the puppies are spoken for the minute they are born.  As for the cats, I already explained that up above.  She only had two litters decided breeding cats wasn’t for her and gave them all away to good homes.

It pays to be friends with the humane officer. She breeds different breeds of dogs off and on and sells puppies. None are raised in the house.

In over thirty years mom and dad only bred three other breeds of dogs, one breed at a time.  She only had two to three litters with each breed in their whole life.  I don’t think that makes her a puppy mill.  All the puppies were born in the house and kept there until they were picked up by their new owners. 

The pictures on her web site showing wolves with a cat and a horse, were staged. They were right there ready to grab the wolf before it attacked the other animals. 

This is the funniest one of all.  This is a picture of a wolfdog born here but in its new home.  The cat and the horses belong to the owner of the wolfdog who lives in Canada.  The owner took the pictures on his property and sent them to mom.  Mom had permission to put them on her website.

Here wolves killed her siamese cat.

Our cat had color points but was not a true Siamese cat.  He was a stray and didn’t get killed by the wolfdogs, it was believed he got hit on the road and only made it to the center of the yard where he was found.  That was another reason to put fence up around our yard, this happened before we had the fence up.

She moved to Carrollton because she got a bad reputation where she used to live.

Mom was very well liked where we lived.  The only reason we had to move is because the house we were living in caught on fire.  It was fixed back up with the insurance money my dad got.  The landlord that owned the house passed and the property was sold to one of the neighbors.

She has accused people of stealing animals from her and they didnt. Her children have to care for them and she is so strict always screaming at them, that i believe if an animal gets loose they would be afraid to tell her.

The only animal thought to have been stolen was a stud cat.  The reason it was thought the cat was stolen is because a lady kept calling wanting mom to give him to her, she then started stopping here asking to have him.  Each time mom told her she didn’t want to give him away.  One day when we were all gone for a family outing, we came home to him being gone.  He was the only cat gone.  Draw your own conclusions to what happened to him.  Moms yelled once in a while just like any other parents usually when we gave her a hard time doing our chores.  We were typical kids that tried to get away with what we could.  We weren’t scared of mom or dad, if one of us had let the cat out we would have told her but we were on a family outing when he disappeared.

 I could go on and on. I am her neighbor and ex friend is how I know all this.

Let’s be honest here, I know who you are, you aren’t a neighbor or an ex-friend of my mom.  You live almost four miles from here on a completely different road.  You and mom were nice to each other because of the friendship between your daughter and I until you started saying bad things about me because you compared me to my sister who had a baby without being married and she was an adult at the time and already graduated from school.  We were in 7th grade when you started saying this about me.  Then when I was in 9th grade you said horrible things about me that my mom stood up to you about.  That is why you are saying this.  You are friends with the harassing neighbor and you two try to hurt my family every chance you get.  The laugh is on you, your daughter was only 15 when she got pregnant.  I am now 19 and still do not have a baby.  You can’t go on and on because you haven’t been here in years.  You didn’t even know that half the animals were put into new homes. 

It is a sad situation but nothing can be done with the friendship between her and the humane officer.

Nothing can be done because they aren’t friend.  We know who she is and that is all.

 I just wanted to let people know, please dont buy from her. You will get an antisocial wolf that wont be able to be rehomed and will end up being put down and you will be out your money.

Really, I think people that have puppies from mom and those who have been here to see our wolfdogs would disagree with you.  You don’t know the whole situation with the lady that posted you just took the opportunity to try to hurt my mom who has never done anything to you.

It cost her very little to breed and raise them. She feeds them road kill. Bad chicken , yes that too. Bunnies, anything she can get for free.

Yes we do occasionally feed road kill when we are contacted to pick one up.  It is cut up and shared between all the wolfdogs.  Mom buys chicken from Gerber poultry and has for years even before we lived in this house.  The chicken is prepackaged and freshly fed.  As for the bunnies, I don’t think so.  You are mad because mom doesn’t buy her feed where you work anymore taking with her all the business she sent there with her to the new place she now gets it from.  You know you lied about this and how much feed she bought, you were who she paid.  You’re just mad.

Her poor husband just lets her treat him like dirt and stays out of her business.

My mom don’t treat my dad like dirt, they love each other and have a good relationship or they would not have celebrated being married twenty seven years, it doesn’t mean they don’t have disagreements from time to time I think all parents do.   

My mom and I may not always see eye to eye but I love her and she doesn’t deserved to be trashed by a twisted story of lies.  If you were truthful you wouldn’t have any reason to try to stay anonymous.  

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#4 General Comment

Wind Dancer Wolves Carrollton Ohio

AUTHOR: Concerned neighbor - ()

 I am commenting concering a woman that got ripped off on a wolf puppy she bought from Lorraine Smith in Carrollton, Ohio. The business is called Wind Dancer Wolves. Lorraine does not raise the puppies in the house and that is why they are afraid and antisocial. She has wolves everywhere and there dogs houses are falling apart. She over breeds and her children are her slaves. She sets in the house and the children do all the work. She has a bad attitude and has been turned in to the humane society several times. Problem is she is friends with the humane officer Shirl Berry of Carroll County. Lorraine gets free horses from humane societies and sales them for profit. They are under fed and neighbors have hauled hay to them and thrown it over the fence so the poor things dont starve. She has a white artic fox tied in her front yard on a short chain out in the hot sun and never gets to do anything but set there. She has Savannah cats she breeds for money and they are outside in kennels. She had a sheltie she locked in the basement and it died. She caught a baby deer and had it in the basement, when it died it was fed to the wolves. She feed new baby ducklings to the cats. You cannot get near her wolves and she keeps the place fenced and locked so no one can see what goes on. She has donkeys in  dog kennels. She has hassled the elderly man across the road so much, he doesnt know what to do. She has a bad attitude and is no more than a puppy mill and cat mill. It pays to be friends with the humane officer. She breeds different breeds of dogs off and on and sells puppies. None are raised in the house. The pictures on her web site showing wolves with a cat and a horse, were staged. They were right there ready to grab the wolf before it attacked the other animals.  Here wolves killed her siamese cat. She moved to Carrollton because she got a bad reputation where she used to live. She has accused people of stealing animals from her and they didnt. Her children have to care for them and she is so strict always screaming at them, that i believe if an animal gets loose they would be afraid to tell her. I could go on and on. I am her neighbor and ex friend is how I know all this.

It is a sad situation but nothing can be done with the friendship between her and the humane officer. I just wanted to let people know, please dont buy from her. You will get an antisocial wolf that wont be able to be rehomed and will end up being put down and you will be out your money. It cost her very little to breed and raise them. She feeds them road kill. Bad chicken , yes that too. Bunnies, anything she can get for free. Her poor husband just lets her treat him like dirt and stays out of her business.

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