- Report: #1092008
Report - Rebuttal - Arbitrate
Complaint Review: WINDDANCER WOLVES
WINDDANCER WOLVES6005 ALAMO ROAD SE CARROLLTON, Ohio USA
WINDDANCER WOLVES LORRAINE SMITH DECIETFUL BREEDER CARROLLTON Ohio
*Author of original report: To Tony in Texas
*Consumer Comment: Refuses to refund or give pup!
*General Comment: Getting the facts straight
*General Comment: Wind Dancer Wolves Carrollton Ohio
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In December of 2012, we spoke with Lorraine Smith of Winddancer Wolves in Carrollton, Ohio. We told her that we were looking for a people-friendly puppy. She told us that she has puppies that are well socialized. She takes the time to train them, expose them to situations, sites and sounds so that they are acclimated to be with people. (see her website).
Mrs. Smith said historically the puppies are born mid to late March. This would present a problem for us as we told Mrs. Smith that we would be out of the country when the puppies would be ready to go to their new homes. She convinced us that if we would take a puppy from this next letter she would do extensive socialization.
We also requested pictures of the mother and father of the future puppy. We requested pictures of the parents at least six times ? never would Mrs. Smith give us a picture.
Mrs. Smith never returned any of our calls during a five month period after she received our deposit. When we picked up the puppy May 19, 2013, she told me she only commits to making one call ? on the birth of the puppies.
When we arrived to pick up the puppy early afternoon on May 19th, 2013, we were met at the gate to Mrs. Smith?s deck with the puppy in her hands. Upon us approaching the puppy, the puppy shook uncontrollably and when handed to Bruce, and the puppy pooped all over him. We were told not to put the puppy down on the ground as she feared it would run off. We were told that the puppy was shaking, pooping and acting this way because it missed its littermates, and that it was sick due to eating bad chicken, and also that a group of motorcycles had just driven by. The puppy smelled terrible when it was handed to us. Mrs. Smith said everything would be fine, so we took the puppy home.
After a few days at home trying to work with this puppy, it never stopped trembling. It ran away from us all the time. On a few outings: a visit to PetSmart, the vets, a simple ride in the car, it pooped all over us and inside its crate. It constantly hid from us every chance it had. The puppy would pee and poop wherever it was hiding and then sleep in it. It would crawl up under the couch to hide. One day we had company come over and when we tried to pick her up and show her to the other people, she ran away. When we were finally able to pick her up, she shook uncontrollably and again pooped all over us and would squirm to get away.
We called Mrs. Smith on May 24th and told her that this was not the people-friendly puppy that we had requested. Mrs. Smith said ?yes, it is your fault. You picked the puppy up when it was too old.? She told us that she had not been able to socialize the puppy due to the fact that her brother had been ill and passed away shortly after the birth of the puppies. She had been in mourning for many weeks and was incapable of doing any people-interactive events to acclimate our puppy as she had promised us when we verbally contracted to buy a puppy from her. She stated that she was still in mourning due to the death of her brother.
She said that perhaps this puppy was not a good fit for us and that she was willing to work with us on the return of this puppy and a refund of our money. Mrs. Smith stated that upon receipt of the puppy, she would immediately give us back $750.00. Then, in a couple of weeks she would refund the remaining $750.00. We agreed to these terms of the refund.
We shipped the puppy back to her on May 27, 2013. The puppy arrived at the Cleveland, Ohio airport at 14:15 p.m. and was signed for by Mrs. Smith at 14:30 p.m.
After not receiving any refund, we took Mrs. Smith to Carrollton, Ohio small claims court. We were awarded the full amount, $1,500. As we waited at the clerk?s office for the paperwork, a court employee looked up Mrs. Smith?s past activity. It appears that for the last ten years, she has had a dozen or so cases ruled against her including some from regular civil suits. She has not paid anyone. It appears the larger law suits tried to garnish whatever they could and were unsuccessful. There is nothing to garnish or file a lien against.
Although Mrs. Smith would love to sell you a pup, if any circumstance occurs (female does not get pregnant, female loses puppies, or a small litter is born), there will be no refunds ? period. You will never recover the money you have paid.
Mrs. Smith will not show you her breeding facilities, breeding animals, or even pictures of the animals. She is deceitful and dishonest. Is this the type of business person you want to do business with?
With all the negative things written about us, being that Mrs. Smith is a pillar of the community, we obtained more information that would support our position. You know Bobby Thompson was a pillar of this country, visiting with President Busch twice. He now has been accused of fraud and will soon being going to trial. We mentioned the lawsuits against Mrs. Smith, and she said they were medical. As all the lawsuits are ?public domain?, we obtained copies of most, maybe all, since 2004.
42% of the over $10,000 dollars awarded in these lawsuits are for a purchase contract breach. 33% are from a couple of wolf commitments. This makes a total of 75% which are definitely not medical associated. The remaining lawsuits are from charge accounts. If Mrs. Smith is anything like the rest of us, only a percentage could possibly be from medical. We went through the courthouse which you can do if you still do not believe us.
For anyone new thinking of getting a wolfdog you should look at the web page: http://texx-wolf-tails.webs.com/wolfdogscomparison.htm. This is an exceptional piece of work with concise descriptions of whatever wolf to dog mix you may be thinking about. If you are still thinking of a wolf to dog mix of more than 50%, I would recommend you read ?Part Wild? by Ceiridwen Terrell.
At what age should you get your dog? As in everything there are pluses and minuses. Let?s start with the six weeks age. The plus is that your dog is shipped where you want and cannot get otherwise. The dog has its shots and health certificate. Do not assume Mrs. Smith does this for the well being of the dog. We shipped our dog back to her from Tampa. It cost us $251.29 (including all taxes) on United Cargo, $36 for an appropriate size crate, $40 for a health certificate (without shots), lets add $30 for shots, and $6 gas to drive to the airport for a total of $363.29. Mrs. Smith charges $500 for a 27% profit ? that is a lot considering you just bought a dog from her. Our wildlife specialist above forgot to tell you that wolves start weaning their cubs at 5 weeks (per ?The Wolf Almanac? by Robert H. Busch p.83) ? nature may know best. Ceiridwen Terrell that wrote ?Part Wild? researches everything to the nth detail. (For inheriting genes of breeding out wildness, she went to a breeder to actually see how her claim panned out ? it did not appear to be any better than other good wolf breeders. So she flew to Russia to see how their claim of gene inherited domestication was accomplished, it appears they fudged on what they called domesticated.)
Ms. Terrell decided 4 weeks to be the best age to get her wolfdog ? more time for bonding. Our current wolfdog we got at 4 weeks, and she has bonded so well she either believes she is human or we are wolves ? but we are all the same. We did have trouble feeding (the breeder said there would be no problem), but a few days on goats milk, and Gerber baby food (chicken) got us to where we could get her eating well. She is absolutely the best animal anyone could have. She is a wolfdog ? she does not do any dog tricks, and she is very independent (she casts her vote on all activities). We are retired, and did 2 hour shifts (including night times) for training. We only used positive reinforcement, and no punishments ? it takes tons longer than dog training. Good luck on whatever you decide.
This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 10/15/2013 05:42 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/WINDDANCER-WOLVES/CARROLLTON-Ohio-44615/WINDDANCER-WOLVES-LORRAINE-SMITH-DECIETFUL-BREEDER-CARROLLTON-Ohio-1092008. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.
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