Report: Pre-paid Legal Services Inc.
Category: Lawyers
Pre-paid Legal Services never paid for services provided
*Consumer Suggestion ..Prepaidlegal.com pre-paid legal is a TOTAL ripoff!
Pre-paid Legal Services Inc.
Fax:
Fairborn, Ohio,
U.S.A.
Submitted: 5/4/2001 12:00:00 AM
Modified: 6/10/2009 1:31:15 AM
ED
Tempe, ArizonaWe provided Telemarketing services to an agent of Pre-Paid Legal Inc. who does business in Fairborn, Ohio.
He refused to pay for the servcies after they were complete. We have made repeated requests both verbal and written to both the agent and to the corporate office of Prepaid Legal,Inc. However we still have not received payment.
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Updates & Rebuttals:
- PrePaid Legal Rip-off? Joseph [2/27/2002 12:00:00 AM]
- Ex-seller of prepaid legal ..Beware of going into business with them! Sandra [5/19/2002 1:11:50 PM]
- I am a ticked of independant associate of pre-paid legal! Nichole [9/17/2002 3:12:09 PM]
- 2 sides to it patrick [9/25/2002 12:19:58 PM]
- reply from ohio Nichole [10/2/2002 1:55:33 PM]
- Prepaid legal-you get what you put in Al [1/20/2003 10:14:22 AM]
- It's what they don't tell you until after you join that makes Pre-paid legal a borderline scam Dewayne [3/13/2003 11:33:53 PM]
- are we talking about the same company??? JEFF [3/15/2003 3:31:05 PM]
- Prepaid legal: Shady Pyramid Scheme ..The product is worthless it doesn't cover divorce, child custody, dwi, dui, or any drug related cases. J.R. [3/18/2003 10:25:36 AM]
- Pre-Paid Works Jin [3/19/2003 6:17:31 AM]
- PrePaid Policy Saves Money Todd [3/24/2003 7:13:40 PM]
- There are several reasons why this doesn't work for everyone Alcina [4/16/2003 1:02:49 AM]
- PRE-PAID LAWSUITS JOEL [5/3/2003 12:09:40 AM]
- SUCCESS IS A CHOICE JUDY [5/15/2003 12:48:16 PM]
- Prepaid legal's financial bubble is about to burst. Kim [6/25/2003 2:06:42 PM]
- This is a valid company Karen [6/27/2003 3:23:45 PM]
- It's really how you use it... upsetting when folks feel burned Mike [11/16/2003 11:04:23 PM]
- Let's correct some misconceptions Scott [12/3/2003 10:19:24 PM]
- the people most in need of legal help are usually those that can't afford it. TImothy [12/4/2003 8:52:11 AM]
- Poverty and Riches are both the offspring of THOUGHT. Chad [3/2/2004 12:10:02 PM]
- It is not a get rich scheme it is a buisness!!! LaShawn [3/9/2004 7:39:25 AM]
- What are you really Getting from Pre-Paid Dave [3/13/2004 3:14:39 AM]
- Good question... what ARE you getting? Michael [3/19/2004 8:28:43 AM]
- on the road to the American Dream David - Director and Independent Associate [3/24/2004 12:50:19 AM]
- Proud to Be An Associate! Lajon [4/14/2004 4:19:36 PM]
- what need is there to lie about anything at all? DIane [6/8/2004 9:07:17 AM]
- Yeah I agree ..Come on people, WAKE UP!!! Bill [6/11/2004 3:04:43 PM]
- You Do Get More Than You Pay For Michael [6/14/2004 8:10:37 AM]
- i feel sorry for you...... Ken [7/1/2004 8:49:28 AM]
- I recently been introduced to PPL and Decided to do some reseach before I made any investment. Steve [7/20/2004 12:35:10 AM]
- I am willing to make this work! Crystal [7/23/2004 8:55:07 AM]
- Pre-Paid Legal Work! If you work it will work for you too. Sam [7/30/2004 12:18:13 PM]
- This company does have issues Dave [8/10/2004 3:35:57 PM]
- It all depends on the provider attorney... Carl [8/21/2004 7:30:49 AM]
- I have put far more into Pre-Paid Legal than I will ever get out of it, but it is not their fault Dave [8/30/2004 4:01:38 PM]
- Pre Paid is NOT a Pyramid Scheme. That is so ridicolous. Patrick [9/13/2004 11:32:16 PM]
- MIND OVER MATTER Justin [9/30/2004 8:45:45 PM]
- Pre-Paid Legal Is a Rip Off - hell to cancel the membership and they will continue to withdraw money from your bank account Liz [10/6/2004 8:10:26 PM]
- Understanding PPL Justin [11/10/2004 9:52:04 PM]
- Rebuttal to the Employee's claims above ..I would encourage any potential members to do their homework Timothy [11/12/2004 1:39:50 AM]
- Not a pyramid scheme Hector [11/14/2004 6:16:05 PM]
- Pre-Paid Legal Is For Everyone, but it isn't for everyone!! Justin [11/16/2004 3:25:52 PM]
- We Don't Want Everyone...!! Lajon [11/17/2004 2:15:56 PM]
- Pre-Paid Legal Information Media [11/17/2004 3:42:51 PM]
- Pyramid scheme, or not, take the test to decide. William [11/18/2004 3:48:39 AM]
- Taking your TEST William.... Alcina [11/18/2004 11:37:13 AM]
- 'Think' about the Tax benefits Jay [12/6/2004 12:30:12 AM]
- Another Over Looked Fact Michael [12/6/2004 10:44:51 AM]
- What you are suggesting is illegal Timothy [12/6/2004 7:21:11 PM]
- You work = you get paid! Patrick [12/6/2004 8:41:21 PM]
- Typical pyramid scheme drivel Tim [12/8/2004 2:09:11 PM]
- Third Party Credibility Lajon [12/8/2004 10:24:46 PM]
- Fact do NOT lie! Patrick [12/9/2004 8:06:53 PM]
- Again with the irrelevant endorsements Tim [12/10/2004 1:44:10 AM]
- Tim... Nicely written response.. Alcina [12/10/2004 11:35:14 AM]
- Is PPL a Pyramid Scheme? Patrick [12/10/2004 7:56:05 PM]
- I did my own due diligence and investigated this company for sometime and it was proven to me that this was a real business. Tim [12/10/2004 8:09:20 PM]
- More Dirt On The Subject ..motion to dismiss a class action lawsuit, and denied Pre-Paid's motion to strike the class allegations. Plaintiffs allege that the Pre-Paid marketing program is an illegal pyramid scheme William [12/11/2004 3:36:24 AM]
- ...And In CURRENT Events....!! Lajon [12/11/2004 5:49:44 PM]
- That press release is largely irrelevant Tim [12/14/2004 8:57:22 AM]
- RE: That press release is largely irrelevant Lajon [12/15/2004 10:25:29 AM]
- Has anybody noticed that this whole post about PPL started out largely negative, and now as PPL finalizes legal complaints against them in their favor, the posts have turned to a positive majority? Michael [12/19/2004 12:28:09 PM]
- it doesn't take much effort to try to dream steal. Fellow PPL associates just ignore this Dream Stealer! Jay [12/29/2004 10:05:56 PM]
- Calm down Jay. Unlike other pyramid schemes you are actually marketing a good product that is a good value. Tim [1/2/2005 7:14:53 AM]
- Re: Unlike other pyramid schemes you are actually marketing a good product that is a good value. Lajon [1/2/2005 2:32:51 PM]
- The bottom line is when and if you ever help over 50 people become Millionaires then you can 'Dream Steal' and offer your negative opinion. Jay [1/2/2005 2:56:11 PM]
- There is a Not a huge need for the Pre-Paid Legal membership and the Identity Theft Shield...!! Dave [1/2/2005 10:36:08 PM]
- Another know it all 'Dave' Jay [1/3/2005 9:02:36 AM]
- Prepaid Legal or the Social Trap of Society? You choose. Patrick [1/3/2005 11:12:42 AM]
- Re: There is a Not a huge need for the Pre-Paid Legal membership and the Identity Theft Shield...!! Lajon [1/3/2005 12:01:34 PM]
- It works and it works well Alcina [1/3/2005 2:22:45 PM]
- Listen to Tim , let me reiterate my position on PPL Carl [1/3/2005 4:44:23 PM]
- The truth (to Jay and all) Dave [1/3/2005 7:27:11 PM]
- In a nut shell - it works IF you are willing to work! Patrick [1/3/2005 11:23:45 PM]
- The Facts are actually stacked against Pre-Paid Legal being something that everyone needs. Jacob [1/4/2005 10:05:39 AM]
- Over One Million Families will Sleep Better Tonight Lajon [1/5/2005 11:43:00 AM]
- Credit Monitoring VS Prepaid Legal ID Theft Patrick [1/8/2005 12:16:14 AM]
- Know it all Dave Jay [1/9/2005 8:58:24 PM]
- Re: Prepaid Legal Ripoff Pegleg Pete [1/9/2005 11:45:14 PM]
- Check your facts Jason [1/10/2005 9:49:04 AM]
- Here is what one unlucky got when she paid for Pre-paid legal. Kim [1/11/2005 4:46:17 PM]
- Two more cents Tim [1/12/2005 9:07:45 AM]
- If working out is sogreat how come everybody isn't in shape? Jay [1/13/2005 1:43:14 AM]
- PPL and suing your employer Pegleg Pete [1/13/2005 8:17:55 PM]
- The Pre-Paid Game Dave [1/15/2005 12:29:50 AM]
- What if everybody thought like 'Dave' and the naysayers. Jay [1/18/2005 12:01:45 AM]
- Naysayers serve a purpose Jamal [1/18/2005 9:12:57 AM]
- You can't handle the facts Dave [1/18/2005 9:10:16 PM]
- More Nonsense Comparisons Dave [1/19/2005 9:26:53 AM]
- $26.00 a month for talking? Dave [1/19/2005 9:50:59 AM]
- It's A CHOICE...!! Lajon [1/19/2005 4:55:39 PM]
- Again more falsehoods Dave [1/20/2005 12:19:38 AM]
- You compare the falsehoods made Dave [1/20/2005 12:25:16 AM]
- Lajons Numbers ..what about the 1/2 million that quit? Dave [1/20/2005 9:16:29 AM]
- Rebuttals for 'EXPERT' Dave Lajon [1/20/2005 9:34:35 AM]
- Pre-Paid Legal vs. the Truth Jamal [1/20/2005 2:03:27 PM]
- The 2003 Annual report numbers Dave [1/20/2005 10:47:43 PM]
- Expert Rebuttal Lajon [1/21/2005 12:25:11 PM]
- Rebuttal to Lajon ..Does Pre-Paid cover you when you are guilty for a crime. Dave [1/21/2005 4:01:54 PM]
- RE: Rebuttal to Lajon... Lajon [1/22/2005 2:28:31 AM]
- Lajon Lies Dave [1/22/2005 3:13:07 PM]
- Lajon from Fairfield is an advid poster on message boards. Dave [1/22/2005 6:20:26 PM]
- RE: Lajon Lies....??? Lajon [1/23/2005 12:09:44 AM]
- Prepaid legal, truth be told, most will do anything for a buck these days to push up the bottomline. Chris [1/29/2005 10:09:43 PM]
- FREE legal help alternative Carolyn [2/7/2005 9:39:57 PM]
- Chris and Carolyn, you can use public pretenders or legal aid if you're at poverty level Jay [3/21/2005 9:16:53 PM]
- Identity theft is more than credit Denise [4/18/2005 2:06:39 PM]
- The bottom line: shop around Carl [4/19/2005 6:00:44 PM]
- Major Money Maker Henry [4/21/2005 1:57:00 PM]
- Scam Companies smear mud on PPL's good name Lee [4/22/2005 8:39:34 PM]
- The Good, The Bad and the Ugly. Doug [4/27/2005 8:06:10 PM]
- More Money for Me Jeremiah [5/3/2005 7:18:52 AM]
- Going no where Simon [5/3/2005 2:17:13 PM]
- To all of our legal experts!!!!!!!! Calvin [5/4/2005 6:30:46 AM]
- It's an insurance product Tom [5/17/2005 7:34:32 PM]
- Past member Victoria [5/20/2005 9:30:40 PM]
- The End to all Naysayers!!! Jay [5/24/2005 4:13:39 PM]
- Thanx for putting this to rest, Jay Timothy [5/29/2005 7:04:59 AM]
- It's not really that big of a deal James [6/1/2005 4:17:21 AM]
- What's this about??? Nigel [6/20/2005 8:33:46 AM]
- Right on, sort of Timothy [6/20/2005 7:43:49 PM]
- Tim's V's still dumb, 40 million people had their credit card information stolen Jay [6/22/2005 12:59:01 PM]
- Tim Valaparaiso (remember?) You haven't done anything that is as great Jay [6/23/2005 3:28:14 PM]
- Could you teach me to argue as effectively as you do? Timothy [6/23/2005 5:48:57 PM]
- original problem 'iffy' Dean [6/28/2005 4:50:11 AM]
- You should have Pre Paid Legal Jason [6/28/2005 12:07:04 PM]
- Happy with Pre paid legal C [7/1/2005 9:48:04 PM]
- This Business Isn't For The Average Guy Debora [7/8/2005 12:20:17 AM]
- pre-paid legal is a rip off all in all Brandy [7/20/2005 9:53:35 PM]
- 'Tim V' USA Today #1 stock Pre-Paid Legal Jay [7/26/2005 2:27:02 PM]
- What does the stock price have to do with the 'opportunity'? Timothy [7/26/2005 5:27:28 PM]
- Prepaid Legal has a great product... Christopher [7/27/2005 3:45:18 AM]
- Tim V - Just give up... Justin [7/31/2005 3:54:39 AM]
- Thanks, Justin! Timothy [7/31/2005 8:42:48 AM]
- Tim V and Justin Case Jay [8/1/2005 12:46:52 PM]
- TimValapriso & Justincase a.k.a dumb&dumber - If Pre-Paid Legal is so great,how come everybody isn't successful? Jay [8/1/2005 3:40:24 PM]
- The Horse is dead, Dismount! Justin [8/3/2005 5:35:24 PM]
- Deja-Vu JAY IS LITTERALLY REPEATING HIMSELF!!! Justin [8/3/2005 5:51:44 PM]
- Now I know Why you're bitterJustin Jay [8/4/2005 1:45:25 PM]
- Your rebuttals are pure comedy Jay! Timothy [8/4/2005 5:14:14 PM]
- Tims alive Finally some spark:-) Jay [8/5/2005 1:20:27 PM]
- Nothin else to say Jay Justin [8/5/2005 5:19:49 PM]
- Associate Jonathan [8/5/2005 9:29:09 PM]
- Do you have anything valid to say, Jay? Or is name-calling all you have? Timothy [8/7/2005 6:30:29 AM]
- to the parties involved Jonathan [8/7/2005 8:15:26 AM]
- The Winner!!! Jay [8/8/2005 1:55:18 PM]
- Using my membership again today... Melissa [8/9/2005 7:18:07 AM]
- Just a quick response Tim [8/10/2005 6:55:49 PM]
- My 2 cents Chris [8/10/2005 7:21:20 PM]
- USED MY MEMBERSHIP (AGAIN) AND SAVED HUNDREDS! Salvatore [8/17/2005 9:29:58 AM]
- Gently pushing forward Matthew [8/26/2005 10:42:32 AM]
- From legal assistant viewpoint Lynn [8/29/2005 7:19:02 AM]
- Why can't we sign up online, not through their PPL Minions? Ryan [8/30/2005 3:50:10 AM]
- PEOPLE CRACK ME UP!! Salvatore [8/30/2005 5:28:02 PM]
- $100,000 a year working from home Lisa [9/9/2005 7:35:50 AM]
- Wow... This opportunity changed my life Toan [9/13/2005 12:03:22 AM]
- NOT a PPL Employee Kate [9/13/2005 12:22:57 PM]
- Independent Associate Preston [9/22/2005 9:48:35 AM]
- Understanding the product E [9/30/2005 8:08:34 AM]
- Comment on Pre-paid Legal Melody [10/11/2005 10:15:44 PM]
- You Grow or you Vanish Gregory [10/12/2005 10:27:51 PM]
- PPL IS AN EXCELLENT OPPORTUNITY- ANYWHERE!! Salvatore [10/14/2005 12:16:26 PM]
- My 2 cents Sheila [10/17/2005 11:00:43 AM]
- it's just a sales job Dee [10/27/2005 2:43:17 AM]
- RESPECT FOR DEE... Salvatore [10/27/2005 8:30:01 AM]
- You're overlooking a major factor Bradley [11/12/2005 9:26:28 PM]
- What a Joke, people who are gutless to rip people off are always the ones to go whinning like sissies...'oh..its legit!!' Steve [11/14/2005 11:33:42 PM]
- PPL IN THE FUTURE... Salvatore [11/18/2005 9:59:59 AM]
- You guys are missing out!! Marvin [11/23/2005 8:09:30 AM]
- Just Like Life, You Get Out What You Put Into It Julie [12/29/2005 7:51:26 PM]
- Reality Check - Pre-Paid Legal is nothing close to a SCAM. Crit [12/31/2005 10:43:13 PM]
- the independant associates who practice unscupulous recruiting are the ones who give the company a bad name Alfred J [1/8/2006 5:11:31 PM]
- My experience Robin [1/11/2006 5:53:51 AM]
- I've said this before Robin Robert [1/11/2006 11:27:27 AM]
- About the Opportunity & Product Michael [1/22/2006 1:12:04 AM]
- every truck driver at the company I worked for bought it. And what did it actually provide? Nothing...not a damn thing. Robert [1/22/2006 8:08:04 AM]
- Get a grip on the reality, naysayers! Mark [1/23/2006 3:23:48 PM]
- It's a GREAT FUTURE for those that EARN IT. Pablo [1/25/2006 9:15:05 PM]
- Expectations and the Misinformed Sheri [2/1/2006 7:51:58 AM]
- In a world of wanting something for nothing Kristin [2/3/2006 1:04:38 PM]
- PREPAID LEGAL Pam [2/4/2006 6:25:41 AM]
- Think before you speak Thomas [2/13/2006 1:27:16 PM]
- Almost correct Thomas Robert [2/13/2006 3:34:03 PM]
- Why pre-pay? Do you expect to litigate or to be sued? Put your money in the bank. Robert [2/13/2006 4:31:59 PM]
- Robert, in case you ever getinto trouble Denny [2/13/2006 8:22:54 PM]
- A simple fix for all the arguing Robert [2/14/2006 7:03:13 AM]
- Robert, templates do not cover everything Denny [2/14/2006 12:20:17 PM]
- Denny, I have to disagree...what a shock, huh? Robert [2/15/2006 5:58:22 AM]
- Sorry Robert, but you do have a mouth Denny [2/15/2006 12:46:09 PM]
- Denny, independent analysis of Pre-Paid Legal shows there are some problems Robert [2/15/2006 3:00:32 PM]
- All Relative Brad [2/21/2006 9:28:34 PM]
- Research what you are told. Vera [3/2/2006 5:18:24 PM]
- Lets all get a Job Jay [3/4/2006 4:53:18 PM]
- This maybe a Real company but so was Enron Nick [3/7/2006 4:55:38 AM]
- It's not a job! Brad [3/11/2006 4:19:25 PM]
- Yet another dummy LOL Nick [3/15/2006 12:24:17 PM]
- Prepaid legal is a Great Company Thomas [3/16/2006 1:41:41 PM]
- No Nonsense Nick Brad [3/17/2006 10:48:55 PM]
- LEGAL HELP NOT LEGAL TENDER! Daniel [3/18/2006 6:31:44 AM]
- In response to Daniel Brad [3/19/2006 9:10:02 PM]
- New information Daniel [3/23/2006 6:33:10 PM]
- Buyers should always be aware John [4/3/2006 3:53:08 AM]
- PPL Business Tim [4/12/2006 2:09:47 AM]
- PPL is not for everyone Sheri [4/16/2006 8:09:16 PM]
- Everyone who buys this crap is misled. The brochures are pure fiction at best, bold faced lies at worse. Preventive services? That's not how it's sold. Nobody needs an attorney to 'prevent' anything. They need attorneys because something happened. Robert [4/17/2006 5:44:54 AM]
- Professionalism Paul [4/18/2006 4:04:50 PM]
- Robert Bob whatever READ Jay [4/29/2006 3:49:15 PM]
- Another victim of PPL, set up for the kill Robert [4/30/2006 4:56:56 PM]
- It's not for everyone. Michael [5/4/2006 6:19:29 PM]
- Part-Time? not really J. [5/6/2006 9:53:44 AM]
- This makes no sense! Gregory [5/24/2006 12:52:16 PM]
- Network Marketing Dangers Timothy [5/30/2006 9:04:14 AM]
- Interesting but False Gregory [5/30/2006 1:29:09 PM]
- Truly Amazing Matt [6/9/2006 7:20:36 PM]
- Grow Up Time Aaron [6/19/2006 1:07:08 AM]
- PPL is totally Bogus. People on this site are not here to buy your product, They are looking for REASONS NOT TO BUY YOU PRODUCT. David [6/20/2006 11:41:07 PM]
- Just the Facts Man Aaron [6/22/2006 5:50:12 PM]
- Some people just don't get it...... Steve [6/24/2006 3:49:02 PM]
- I love and hate PPL Jim [7/2/2006 9:44:50 PM]
- Attorney in Private Practice Comments on PPL Kacey [7/12/2006 8:15:26 PM]
- Question for Kacey Timothy [7/14/2006 8:45:21 AM]
- I have seen it all Josh [7/25/2006 11:56:24 PM]
- Why hasn't Kacey responded to Timothy - Valparaiso, Indiana Thomas [7/26/2006 8:38:16 AM]
- I used to work in the Antlers OK call center Brandon [8/9/2006 11:52:48 PM]
- If Business was easy... Sheila [8/17/2006 9:31:36 PM]
- Educate, educate, educate Kerry [8/18/2006 11:48:44 PM]
- Educate, educate, educate Kerry [8/19/2006 7:44:54 AM]
- Good Judgement Seldom Helps Aaron [8/21/2006 4:08:34 AM]
- Good product, sketchy opportunity Tim [8/21/2006 4:42:43 PM]
- Good judgement has worked well for me Thomas [8/21/2006 9:00:32 PM]
- Regarding PPL Issues Pam [10/13/2006 12:33:02 PM]
- Response to a couple of Pam's issues Tim [10/16/2006 2:17:18 PM]
- RE: Lawyers as associates Tracy [10/22/2006 10:41:46 PM]
- Pre-Paid Legal Not all what it is cracked up to be Dave [10/24/2006 1:31:02 AM]
- Wrong idea about identity theft. Allory [10/29/2006 1:17:19 AM]
- ID Theft Dave [10/29/2006 2:42:30 PM]
- Re: ID Theft. Allory [10/29/2006 7:06:32 PM]
- Being a PrePaid Legal Associate is NOT for everyone! Susan [10/30/2006 10:52:58 AM]
- Reponse to Susan and allory Dave [10/30/2006 10:56:45 PM]
- For Susan in VA Dave [10/31/2006 6:55:49 AM]
- Response to Tracy Tim [11/4/2006 9:14:33 AM]
- WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT Steven [11/11/2006 9:31:50 AM]
- Not quite, Steven Tim [11/17/2006 1:57:44 PM]
- A mix match of responses Tracy [11/17/2006 8:30:57 PM]
- I've Been Prospected by Pre-Paid This Week Judith [11/17/2006 8:51:26 PM]
- For Judith Tracy [11/18/2006 2:46:47 AM]
- Regarding the PPL Attorneys Judith [11/18/2006 8:07:38 AM]
- About spelling Judith [11/18/2006 3:57:02 PM]
- Judith again Tracy [11/18/2006 7:48:12 PM]
- TIM Steven [11/18/2006 9:37:41 PM]
- Lawfirms Tracy [11/19/2006 11:00:07 AM]
- It's not hard to tell Thomas [11/25/2006 3:17:04 PM]
- Some interesting points Thomas Tracy [11/28/2006 5:52:35 PM]
- My two cents...for what it is worth La Monte [12/5/2006 10:13:46 PM]
- That Great La Monte Tracy [12/10/2006 8:06:27 PM]
- Prepaid Legal Independent Assc. Matt [12/13/2006 12:55:41 AM]
- A little less rebuttling and Tim and Jay could be spending more time making money! Jennifer [1/2/2007 2:04:18 AM]
- Once again I am still being rip off by Pre- Paid illegal!!! La Monte [1/2/2007 8:53:57 PM]
- Jennifer, maybe I can help you Tracy [1/3/2007 5:33:41 PM]
- Does Pre-Paid giive you real legal power Dave [1/4/2007 6:09:12 PM]
- More resposes Dave [1/4/2007 7:02:40 PM]
- Use your common sense Daniel [1/5/2007 12:26:09 PM]
- Dave Tracy [1/5/2007 1:12:34 PM]
- Pre-paid is not an only type of buisness Dave [1/5/2007 9:12:41 PM]
- ID theft info for the record Dave [1/5/2007 9:35:26 PM]
- OH My.... Jeremy [1/19/2007 2:42:06 PM]
- Oh so wrong Dave [1/23/2007 9:16:59 PM]
- Next time just ask Jeremy [1/31/2007 4:08:07 PM]
- Use Good Judgement with PPL Jim [2/2/2007 7:11:02 AM]
- This associate is misrepresenting Dave [2/4/2007 1:16:57 PM]
- sorry for your experience with the company Jeremy [2/5/2007 3:47:23 PM]
- Future Employee... Daniel [2/20/2007 11:27:50 PM]
- Well, Daniel, if you are determined, you go right ahead.... Thomas [2/21/2007 9:48:18 AM]
- Check with the SEC, recent media coverage Jeremy [2/22/2007 1:05:18 PM]
- Information about becomming an associate Dave [2/23/2007 3:29:42 PM]
- File complaint with your local bar association or the disciplinary counsel of the Sumpreme Court of your state! Jennifer [2/26/2007 8:10:48 AM]
- Ignorance vs Knowledge Shane [3/2/2007 12:31:47 PM]
- Why would anyone buy this J [3/5/2007 3:17:33 PM]
- Negativity cannot harness the Power of Prepaid Legal Judy [3/6/2007 3:44:37 PM]
- Just facts Dave [3/10/2007 6:45:56 PM]
- Dave gets it.... Sean [4/6/2007 10:32:32 PM]
- Please understand the purpose of the plan Christopher [4/11/2007 2:31:30 AM]
- Again and Again Dave [4/11/2007 4:17:55 PM]
- Associate Lidija [4/28/2007 1:49:48 AM]
- Show me the money Sean [4/29/2007 5:13:32 PM]
- Pre-Paid Legal Personal/Business Opportunity Steve [5/2/2007 2:11:22 PM]
- Services vs. Products and an Opportunity Galen [5/5/2007 7:06:19 PM]
- You think you were ripped off? Roberta [5/7/2007 3:02:28 AM]
- This is rediculous Jeremy [5/14/2007 3:41:59 PM]
- The true issues Sean [5/14/2007 10:46:30 PM]
- dude, sean is an idioto Steve [5/16/2007 12:21:49 AM]
- truth explained again Sean [5/16/2007 10:27:57 AM]
- Do you guys actually read these posts before you rebut? Jeremy [5/21/2007 1:00:46 PM]
- Independant Associates Zachary [6/8/2007 10:47:30 AM]
- getting it straight Sean [6/14/2007 8:09:53 PM]
- 's get back to basics folks Alan [7/24/2007 10:50:30 AM]
- Show me the Money Sean [7/26/2007 10:11:56 PM]
- Enough already! Julie [8/30/2007 1:53:15 PM]
- Do not quit your day Job. Sean [8/31/2007 7:31:16 AM]
- welcome to the club Richard [9/11/2007 8:51:50 AM]
- ALAN AND JULIE SHUT THE F* UP! Paul [10/9/2007 11:55:00 AM]
- Hey Paul, Rinse Your Mouth Out With Some Soap. Obviously Your Mother Didn't Raise You Right Melvin [10/18/2007 12:09:29 PM]
- Melvin, can you provide what you sell? Scottsdale Mortgage Broker [10/23/2007 1:36:39 PM]
- I'm more than happy to answer your questions Melvin [10/29/2007 7:31:15 PM]
- Due diligance-learn it, live it, love it. Jeremy [12/17/2007 3:41:15 AM]
- He said, she said, the facts of who said what and real issues at hand Sean [12/23/2007 8:48:48 PM]
- pre legal scam Bill [1/29/2008 8:38:03 PM]
- Identity Theft Shield Not Worth It? Bobilero [2/15/2008 4:09:17 PM]
- ID theft restoration Sean [2/21/2008 8:44:49 PM]
- Dear Sean from Michigan Bobilero [2/22/2008 2:39:23 PM]
- Identity theft Douglass [4/11/2008 11:10:43 PM]
- ID theft Statistics Sean [4/15/2008 8:36:03 PM]
- Associates Associate [4/22/2008 5:52:31 PM]
- Sounds like you need a good attorney to handle your complaint! Jan [6/2/2008 11:45:31 PM]
- More about independent contractors Theunspoken [6/9/2008 12:37:15 PM]
- Overall Responsibility Dustin [6/14/2008 2:04:56 AM]
- THIS PRE-PAiD Legal Services Inc., IS IN NO WAY AFFILIATED OR A PART OF BREAKTHROUGH LIBRARY PARTNERS Chase Bank Bad Business! [8/11/2008 9:34:03 PM]
- Pre-Paid Legal Doesn't Pay for Services performed Lou [11/12/2008 6:13:24 AM]
- Pre-Paid Legal NOT a rip off!! Norma [11/23/2008 8:18:16 AM]
- Prepaidlegal.com pre-paid legal is a TOTAL ripoff! Jack [6/9/2009 10:30:00 PM]
PrePaid Legal Rip-off?
In this case, it sounds more like the individual is corrupt and not the product. I'm sorry if this individual has caused you any problems and hopefully you can get your money asap. However, PrePaid Legal is a good product and a very valuable service to ordinary people. If you would like to reply, ..file your own rebuttal.
Ex-seller of prepaid legal ..Beware of going into business with them!
I also thought it was a reputable company until I went to work for them. After purchasing their product and business package, they hung me out to dry. I spent around a thousand dollars and both my mentors left me hanging with no training and no help. After you join a lot of expenses arise that you are not told about! So Beware of going into business with them!
I am a ticked of independant associate of pre-paid legal!
I am so mad i joined pre-paid legal understanding that it would be a at home job it wasn't until i paid for it that the girl that recruted me told me well you have to go to this training and that5 training and meeting after meeting well before i signed up i told her i was a single mom with no transportation so how did she expect me to get there pull money out of my butt for a babysitter and a car i haven't made any money off this stupid buisness and i'm starting to believe i never will they can all go rot you know where!
2 sides to it
Sounds like you people jumped in the water when you cant swim. It is to bad that the few of you experienced rogh road in the beginning. The truth is, working for yourself has a lot more rough roads- Im sorry LIFE has even more rogh roads ahead. Simple obstacles to overcome like a over due bill. Sorry to hear about you out there in Ohio, but that has nothing to do directly with Prepaid. Did you purchase a membership? All of you that had bad experiences, have you guys told both sides of the story?
Proud To Be A Part Of PRE-PAID LEGAL
PLealiiee in Southern Cali
reply from ohio
I have tryed to over come those obsticals it's hard when your a single mother you have no car and you weren't informed you had to travel before you got into the buisness. I have done everything imaginable to sell ppls but no body in my area wants it. the training class is an hour and a half away from me and i do not know anyone that will take me nor do i know anyone who will take my kid so don't tell me about ruff roads ahead because i know what that is all about. I have worked 'outside' of my comfort zone and where did it get me broke and still looking for a stinkin job and yes i had actaully perchased the service but because i wasn't getting paid i had to get rid of it so i could feed my kid.
Prepaid legal-you get what you put in
I too tried to make a go of Prepaid Legal. I was told that I could make a decent part-time income with little effort. It is not true. I went to many meetings, special trainging, and spent about $500.00 on promotional items.
It did not work for me. However, I did 'break-even' on my 'investment' due to the 1/2 dozen memberships I sold. I still have the product. It does what it is suppose to do. The 'turn and burn' mentality is very applicable to this company. (as evidenced by the ebb and flow of the stock price).
Even with all that against it, you can 'make it work' but much time and money needs to be spent.
Submitted: 3/13/2003 11:33:53 PM
Modified: 3/14/2003 2:01:22 AM
Dewayne
New York City, New YorkU.S.A.
It's what they don't tell you until after you join that makes Pre-paid legal a borderline scam
It's what they don't tell you until after you join that makes Pre-paid legal a borderline scam, the legal services provided afterwards pushes pre-paid legal almost over that border, it's what they tell you before you join (lies , lies and more lies ) which makes it a scam.
I too was amazed at all the extra expenses , even after you sell a policy the company provides next to nothing , all materials & documents comes out of your commission, a commission which is yours after 3 years, you are paid advances $23 to $40 in the beginning of which you may see $5 to $10 ( if you lucky) after buying everything needed from pre-paided to give to the customer.
Pre-paid won't even provide customer a free written policy ( You have to pay for it). From $1,548 you make $40 of which over $20 goes back to pre-paid, not including the money for meetings and books and tapes and pamphlets and cassetes and cards, and...... put it this way they haves tables full of stuff you have to buy,( all of which they make of course). don't dare copy anything , ( a big No-No ) for which you are warned... you'll get kicked out. You HAVE to buy it from them, regardless if printing company would cost one - tenth of what they charge or you could copy almost for free from your own computer.
I began to believe it was from us that pre-paid really made the most of their money. They pocket their entire $1,548. Also don't believe the hype that checks are sent out the next day. Be prepared to call long distance if you need to contact company ( so much for 1 800 toll free number).
They do send out checks the same day, just not to you, but to others who been waiting weeks. Still haven't seen checks from people referred to classes.
They sell you a dream in the beginning and you end up with a nightmare. You would think , join , sell policy , get your money..... think again! ( So don't try to sell the rough road BS to the nice lady who wrote above that she was a single mother without transportation).I couldn't in good conscience sell pre-paid services to my worst enemy..... well maybe to my worst enemy I could.
are we talking about the same company???
Are we talking about the same company???I have been a member of PPL for three (3) years now. I use the fire out of my membership. To date it is the best 27 dollars I spend every month. I just started selling the plan, and have sold 6 so far. I got paid the next day by bank wire for every one of them. The 27 dollar plan pays $125.00 the next day. I sold a small business plan and got $336.00 the next day by wire also. I hope you will give PPL a second chance, because it will do everything it says that it will do. Sorry to hear about your troubles, but you can't get something for nothing...even something this simple requires work...
Thanks,
Prepaid legal: Shady Pyramid Scheme ..The product is worthless it doesn't cover divorce, child custody, dwi, dui, or any drug related cases.
PPL is a ripoff. First you must pay a $36 membership fee. Then you must pay $26 a month to keep the membership. You must also pay a $249 franchise fee, and in the state of Texas you must also pay $150 application fee to test for an insurance license.
The product is worthless it doesn't cover divorce, child custody, dwi, dui, or any drug related cases. They even charge you a small fee to make your will. On most services they only offer a 25% discount on their hourly rate (??), which conveniently is never mentioned. All they talk about is their money, cars, and houses which you never see, and how you must dress the part (clothes).
You are supposed to recruit people to join this ripoff just so you can recieve an advance of $100 to $200 (depending on your level in the pyramid scheme), and if they cancel their membership you get charged back for the advance. Many 'employees' claim the use the membership, but I think they use it to keep it a borderline business opportunity. I think it is a shady business not worth your time and money, unless you got it and you want to waste it.
Pre-Paid Works
Firstly, a company cannot be a scam if the state of Kentucky endorses it and subscribes to the service. Other cities are offering the service to their city employees as a benefit. I do not think that state governments endorse scams. I have been a member as well as an associate and I know that Pre-Paid is an excellent product. I agree there may be some unscrupulous associates out there. There will always be in any business.
As for the people who said they did not make money from Pre-Paid, no one ever guaranteed them that they would make money. Just like every business endeavour, there is always a risk of failure. I have personally made money from this company helping others and if I didn't, It would have been because I did not work hard enough for it.
As for covering dui's, dwi's or drug related cases, I do not think any legal company would cover those cases in the first place.
PrePaid Policy Saves Money
Even though the original complaint was not even against PrePaid Legal Services itself, this forum has turned into a slam fest against this company.
As far as it being a 'scam' - most scams don't stick around 30+ years & get listed on the NYSE (symbol PPD) - if you have been misled it was by a poorly trained Associate, not the company.
Next, if you actually took the time to read your PrePaid policy, you would have learned that divorce, DUI, bankruptcy and other issues are indeed covered! Title I helps answer questions you may have about your rights/what you need to do & Title V gives you a 25% discount on the the attorney fees. In FL for example that can save $50 or more per hour billed - which can save you hundreds, even thousands of $$$ on the average case.
In addition, the policy is NOT intended to get you out of trouble when you break the law. Instead, most of it's features help you avoid the trouble in the first place. This is an outstanding company with a unique product (that works for over 1.4 million people right now!) - if you haven't made any money it's your own fault - it takes time & commitment to succeed in any business.
There are several reasons why this doesn't work for everyone
To the telemarketing complaint.
The bill was incurred by the individual Independent Associate. All expenses incurred by an individual are their responsibities and do not reflect nor incur responsibility of 'Pre Paid Legal Inc'
To Sandra, You signed up with a team who was unwilling to do what needed to be done to help you reach your goals...Only people who help their teams, acheive their goals, succeed in this business..that's just the way it works. Maybe you could find someone farther up in your upline who will help...look for an Ex Director level to help you. Also you didn't have to purchase ALOT of items to do business with a few 10 cent brochures and a few 65 cent audio tapes thet you only 'lend' out for a few days gets you better results any ways.
I have made the business pay for itself and I'm still pulling an easy 500-1200 a month (part time)
'you weren't informed you had to travel before you got into the buisness.' You really don't have to if you're dedicated enough to train yourself at home, get on the training calls, listen to the radio show...If you physically can't get there...maybe you could spend that time trainig yourself at home. The opportunities that were presented to you are REAL...find it in yourself to pull out of your anger and move forward I was a single mom with no car at one time...you NEED this opportunity...Don't tell anyone anymore just show a tape and be quiet the tape will do the work for you.
WE became Members in Nov and started using it..to date I think we've saved over 15k in erronous bills, false credit charges fixed, AOL overcharge, a PayPal duel deduction..and I have no idea how many times we've called to have questions answered. It's without a doubt the best 26 dollars I spend in a month.
We became Associates in Jan...EASY to do this business...you just HAVE to do it...If you sit home and wait for it to come to you...well this is the wrong business for you.
Oh yea by the way a Senator has introduced a bill to have it available as a pre-tax dollar benefit plan for employees, just like health, vision and dental insurance,...expect to see it in large companies who care about their employees
PRE-PAID LAWSUITS
IT IS TRUE THEY ARE ON THE NY STOCK EXCHANGE , IT IS ALSO TRUE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN UNDER INVESTIGATION FOR FALSE ACCOUNTING PROCEDURES AND THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO BUY BACK ALL THE OUTSTANDING STOCK AND RETURN TO BEING A PRIVATE COMPANY BECAUSE OF THE NY STOCK EXCHANGE INVESTIGATIONS AND LAWSUITS FROM INVESTORS.
SUCCESS IS A CHOICE
I am an independent associate with Prepaid Legal Services, Inc. I fell upon this site accidently and was utterly amazed. It is a shame that the individuals who filed rip off reports have had a bad experience. I am not shocked, however, let me tell you why.
Prepaid Legal Services, Inc., is a 31 year old company. Nothing has stirred my soul like Prepaid Legal Services has and what it does for families all across North America. The company is on the New York Stock Exchange and is monitored by the Securities and Exchange Commission. I have been an associate for almost 5 years and it has changed my life. When I go to the National Convention each year in Oklahoma City, some of the speakers that are speaking to an audience of 10,000 associates are, the Attorney General for the State of Oklahoma, the Insurance Commissioner for the State of Oklahoma, and the Mayor, plus many more. If Prepaid Legal was a scam or a pyramid scheme do you think that the Attorney General would endorse the company? Addressing the working at home question. I work from home, and every time I sell a membership, the company replaces the supplies I used. I have left my 27 year career and am now, after almost 5 years, working Prepaid Legal on a full time basis. The company oozes with integrity, is building a 33 Million dollar facility in Ada Oklahoma, pays my car payment and sends me on a trip every year to Cancun. It offers you the ability to build your own dream, so whatever effort you harvest, like anything else, you will reap the rewards. I am living proof, and there are many many associates that have stories of poverty and scarcity until they decided to choose SUCCESS. Success is a choice, and Prepaid Legal just happends to be a company that supports one's dreams. Its a vehicle many have chosen and it has changed lives. So those of you that are bitter and angry and looking to blame someone, don't blame Prepaid Legal Services, Inc. Like anything else, there are a few bad apples in the basket.
I have also saved thousands and thousands of dollars using the services. I use it often and it really works. The company is a well oiled machine and if you are making comments about investigations, do yourself a favor and check them out with the SEC, the Wall Street Journal and perhaps the Governor of the State of Oklahoma. Get your facts accurate.
Prepaid legal's financial bubble is about to burst.
Anybody considering buying their worthless memberships, or working for them needs to read this article.
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/apr2002/nf20020425_0617.htm
They are under investigation in several states. Over 20% of their revenue is generated by monthly memberships of their very own sales people.
The memberships do NOT cover a wide variety of case types such as many of the most common like child custody, divorce, annulment, BK, Class-action, wage garnishments, and others.
Also Pre-Paid provides for 60 hours of trial time per year, but pretrial work -- the bulk of most cases -- is limited to 2.5 hours per year in a basic policy.
These PPL policies are garbage, and don't cover hardly anything.
This is a valid company
Since I am not considered an 'employee' but an 'independent associate' I thought it better to post this as a suggestion.
I have been an associate for about 9 months now. About the only thing I have a problem with is that other independent associate sometime misrepresent the company to prospective associates and members. Unfortunately, some people pick up the habit unknowingly of misrepresenting the benefits of being and associate or member. One thing I do know is that they have stressed that all the associates read certain training manuals as many as four times. Each time I've read these manuals I pick up something new. One of those things is that associates are not allowed to enter agreements on behalf of Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc. Another is that there are certain things we are not allowed to tell prospective members and I mean that in a good way. We are not allowed to tell the member what the hourly rate is for 'Preferred Member Services' only that it's at a 25% discount. What that means is that you might get even a bigger discount if the provider law firm is able to take your case and it does not have to be referred to an outside law firm due to conflict of interest or some other reason. I also know that my sponsor personally has used our provider law firm 5-6 times and has had very favorable results. I might not be the most successful salesperson but I knew that from the start but decided this was something I wanted to do and that I will never be without the service. I have been very fortunate that I haven't encountered any problems since becoming a member but I certainly can think of dozens of times in the past where having access to their advice, etc. would have been a Godsend.
By the way, my sponsor is now one of my best friends and we are dedicated to helping each other become successful.
What the single mother needs to do is find a workout partner. Have one of the Directors or Executive Directors send an e-mail blast to the team looking for people in your area that will help transport you to and from. By the way, you don't have to attend the briefings but it is a great way to network. Either way, I wish you the best.
Also, to DeWayne, I also have no idea what company you were with. None of this seems to match with my experience, cost, etc. I know due to account confirmation, etc. that sometimes it takes a week or so to get paid for a membership but I swear I actually got paid the same day for a membership that was submitted early in the day, on line, using a credit card.
Regarding the comment about pre-trial time. Maybe it's different in your state (or you're referring the the Standard Plan). In any case, I know pre-trial time usually takes longer than the trial but I look at it this way, to me, it's the icing on the cake. I finally have a will, I can reach an attorney when I'm having a problem, I can get help with a lot of other stuff, and, in California (especially in the Los Angeles area), attorneys are very high priced. Besides, would you rather pay $17 to $26 per month or $100 - $200? I believe it's just another way to keep the membership affordable.
It's really how you use it... upsetting when folks feel burned
I'm sorry to hear these negative stories about Pre-Paid Legal- even though the initial complaint as pointed out above has nothing to do with that company, it is upsetting when folks feel burned.
I am an Independant Associate, have been for two months, and have not found fault with a single one of their claims to date... I've use the service several times here in Illinois, I've gotten every penny due me in advance commissions in a timely fashion, I've gotten every questions answered, and I've invested a grand sum total of $38 into promotional materials to support the 14 memberships that I've sold to date, from which I've earned roughly $2,800. The system sells itself, if you target the right audience, show the video, and then let your Team work with you to make the service clear- then if folks want it, they become members, if they don't- that's cool too... it just wasn't the right service at the right time for them, and so be it. There is no need to 'sell' this service, just present it and let it prove itself.
For Nichole in Courtland- it sounds like this probably wasn't the best move for you to make at this time, but since you've made it, you should have demanded better coaching from your Team. I'm sure there was someone up there who would have put the right package of teaching, coaching and support behind you
Let's correct some misconceptions
It is always interesting to read discussions such as this, as well as to learn about the way things are in life. The people who have said things against the company have raised valid issues (except the person who thinks PPL is in financial trouble and cites an 18 month old article.) I also congratulate the defenders of PPL who have all laid out the truth as it is.
PrePaid Legal is a wonderful product if you use it the way it was designed and not try to take advantage of it.For all those who point out what isn't given away freely, that is the point of the Title 5 discount coverage. the purpose of PrePaid Legal is to keep you out of trouble, not get you out of trouble. If you have to get OUT of trouble, the conceptis simple....do you want to pay 75% of lawyer fees, or all 100% of these fees. Enough said.
Then there is the business opportunity itself.......
Yes, this is a different kind of marketing. It would be nice if this product could be marketed in a traditional manner, but that is not going to happen. Right now, the company is pushing hard to recruit established insurance agents to market the product because the what has been complained about here (paying for company produced materials, chargebacks for customers who drop, lead generation costs)are standard proceedure in the insurance industry. Established insurance agents know they have to have certain materials to represent the product correctly, but don't overspend carrying excess inventory of materials. Also, explaining how the PPL product works is very similar to explaining how health insurance works
The biggest problem without presenting this product is that most Americans are very lawyer/legal-phobic. The last words of our Pledge of Allegience is '....and Justice for ALL'
The reality is that there is only justice for those who can afford it. Because of this, no one wants anything to do with lawyers, or courts, or the legal system. now balance that with the fact that the USA is the most litiguous society on the face of the planet. What that means is that we sue each other more than anyone else in the world. Need a quick buck? SUE SOMEONE because that is the new American Way!!!!!
But what if you are the one being sued?? What isn't well known is that if you are sued, you MUST answer the suit. You can't ignore it, you lose by default if you do ( is THAT Justice for all?) What isn't also widely known is that if you show you can defend yourself most professional suers will drop the suit. They don't want to go to court to fight, they just want you to pay. I've had two civil suits filled against me this year. Each time the Pre-Paid Legal attorneys have taken a look at the documents filled against me, and written a letter on my behalf. Both suits were dropped immediately. Time I have spent in court?? ZERO
Additional cost other than my monthly payment? ZERO If I didn't have PPL, it would have cost me $200 an hour to defend myself and if I hadn't answered, I would be in debt for $13,500 in judgements.
But back to the representing of PPL. Since people are naturally adverse to anything in the legal arena, they are not going to seek out protection from it. The only way to effectively offer this product is on a person-to-person basis. Since we are limited by the people we know, will meet, or come in contact with, we always have to be expanding the representative base. Yes, when you attend a live event you get to hear the best success stories. Exactly like it is done on infomercials!!!!! In both cases you are told that these people are way above average!!!! The thing that is not ever remembered is that they are not any different than anyone else. They just saw the opportunity and did what they needed to do to be successful.
I've got news for everyone. The legal mood is changing, and it is changing in favor of pre-paid legal plans. There was a time when people did not generally have auto and health insurance, now it is nearly mandatory that you do. Many financial publications have stated that the current climate in terms of legal services is exactly like the HMO market before it turned into a trillion-dollar industry. There is also a growing notion that the laws may change to make legal representation in the courts mandatory.
It has been a shame for me to watch the number of people who have signed up for Pre-Paid Legal thinking this is a get rich quick scheme. Unfortunately they are the loudest complainers when it doesn't work out. This is not a get rich quick scheme. This is a get-rich-if-you-are willing-to-work-for-it opportunity. For those of you who tried and it didn't work out, I am sorry you were not treated correctly. Any company that is growing has growing pains. The largest one in PPL has been follow-up training once new representatives come on board. I am particularly sorry for J.R. in houston's experience because he is an example of the problem that we are currently trying to address. Yes, we are holdong more meetings around Houston now, but more are addressed at training rather than just rah-rah recruiting. I would encourage J.R. to take another look at the opportunity, he may find that now is his time to reach the goals he was aiming for.
The fact of the matter is that PPL is not going to be going anywhere anytime soon. The lawsuits will be defended. Some cases will be won, some cases will be lost. That is the nature of big business. Right now, as can be researched as a matter of public record, there is a nationwide health insurer who administers the Blue Cross/Blue Shield programs in many states which has been indicted for fraud in Maryland and Florida. The fines and charges will be in the tens-of-millions of dollars. Will this company be going out-of-business soon? Not hardly. At the end of October it was announced that another big player in the Blue Cross/Blue Shield arena is acquiring them. The name of the combined companies will be that of the company being sued for fraud.
Pre-Paid Legal is here to stay, whether you like or don't like it, GET USED TO IT, because it's the best thing going today!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOO
the people most in need of legal help are usually those that can't afford it.
Let me start by saying that 'legal insurance' is a great concept. Scott makes a very valid point on the nature of our legal system: the halls of justice are wide open to those who can afford the price of admission, but the people most in need of legal help are usually those that can't afford it.
Per the advocacy end of legal services, PPL falls short of a quality product. The most common legal services (i.e. representation for divorce, child custody, bankruptcy and the most frequently charged criminal offenses) are not offered (with the exception of the 25% discount).
Also, offering a large amount of trial time with only a modicum of pre-trial preparation time goes against how the legal system really works. Work done outside of the courtroom comprises the vast majority of time spent on cases, probably in the neighborhood of 95-99%, because most cases never make it to a courtroom. Preparing for and taking a deposition, for example, will generally take at least five hours. If you were to require representation inside a courtroom for the 60 hours per year that you are allotted, your lawyers will probably have spent over 500 hours outside of the courtroom. This disproportion is massive, and could leave the unsuspecting client with a huge bill that he did not expect.
The coverage also excludes many incidental expenses that comprise a large portion of lawyer bills. I'm not going to deny that lawyers make good money, but most people don't realize that a big chunk of the money you pay in legal fees does not go to your lawyer. These incidentals include filing fees, stenographer fees, witness payments, and in some circumstances you may even have to pay for a jury.
Lets say your lawyer has to take a deposition in preparing for your trial. You are only covered for 2.5 hours of 'lawyer work,' probably saving you about $300. Your out of pocket expenses could easily break down to: another $300 in lawyer fees, $150 in witness compensation, $300 for the stenographer, and substantial additional costs if your witness needs judicial persuasion to show up. Mind you the $300 you save almost covers the cost of your policy, and you will certainly save money in the end, but what kind of insurance policy only covers what could be well under 10% of your expenses?
On the counselling end, PPL does seem to offer a good product. You are permitted a great deal of legal consultation not related to trials, and, as stated above, this consultation could keep you out of a trial in the first place.
Ideally, you should have a lawyer look over every contract you sign. Whoever drafted the contract most likely had the assistance of a lawyer to assure the best terms for them, and you should have one too to make sure you're not getting taken for a ride. Most lay persons don't understand the extent to which virtually all sales, employment, and service contracts benefit the provider a great deal more than they benefit the consumer or employee. All too often people forfeit important rights by signing a contract they don't understand or, in most cases, don't even bother to read. Letting your lawyer take a look before you sign a contract is always a good idea, and PPL seems to allow you to do this.
All in all I'd say, from my cursory examination, that PPL is worth the money. It certainly has its downfalls in regards to advocacy (and I'm hesitant to say that it's a good sales opportunity), but the couselling benefits more than make up for this. As the average consumer enters into about twenty major contracts per year, you could definitely get your money's worth out of this product.
Just one last note for Scott - a law requiring mandatory legal representation would be in clear violation of constitutional due process requirements unless the government itself was willing to pay for it, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a governmental entity willing to provide representation for civil litigations.
Poverty and Riches are both the offspring of THOUGHT.
I would just like to start this out saying that I have been an Independent Associate for about 3 months now. Originally coming into the business I was really skeptical but thought I would keep an open mind. I am very excited about the product and am doing very well myself.
I read a comment concerning someone who rendured services to a Pre-Paid Legal Associate, but never received money for the services. In this situation the validity of Pre Paid Legal Services should not be questioned but the Associate that did not pay. There are all types of people in the world and some aren't ethical. You are going to find this anywhere you go. If you haven't well I guess you aren't looking too hard or aren't obviously living the the REAL world. Secondly if you would have checked out the legal plan that they offer you would have seen that it is a great value. I would have called my lawyer and had them contact the associate, but obvisouly you don't have easy access to an attorney.
Yes, Pre Paid Legal can be a stay at home job, but do you really expect to make money just by sitting on your butt. Too many people today expect a quick dollar for no work. There are no get rich quick scams that work. If they did work then everyone would probably do them. You have to put in some time to receive your benefits. Your time or work ethic is directly proportional to your earnings. Just remember: There are no limitations to the mind except those that the mind acknowledges.
It is not a get rich scheme it is a buisness!!!
I have the ppl services and so does the better part of my family as well. I would like to respond to the single mother especially. I too am a single mother and have been for eight years. I think you have the concept of work all wrong. As a single mother you must do what you have to do for that child. As well as owning your own buisness which is what you are doing when you are in pre-paid legal. If the expenses were too much how come you did not just order the services. And use them to take the father of your child to court for Child Support? It is quite apparent that you saw the opportunity within the buisness because you signed up to sell the membership to others. It is quite apparent that you have a negative attitude towards the buisness so one might ask why were you in it? Everyone has tough, and rough roads. That is called life! I myself have worked 2 and sometimes 3 jobs to support my daughter. And having no car was the least of my worries. You must do what you have to do. Getting into this buisness does not make you rich, it is your drive and determination that does. That is with anything. Do you realize if you ownwed your own buisness and bought the supplies you would decrease your funds before you increased them? And who do you blame if YOUR buisness does not work? No one it is YOUR buisness. But who reaps the benefits when you succeed? You! Do you not realize that you just have given up on your own buisness. It is not the person's fault who recruited you. It is up to you to go after your own rewards. Rewards do not come to you. In closing, I must say that I apologize for those individuals who have made anyone see the Pre-paid legal services program as anything but great. Even if you just had the membership alone you recieve so many benefits. Where if you did not have an attorney would cost you a lot more in the long run. I understand we all have problems. But we all must realize that life does not hand us anything we have to be go getters. Otherwise we will be those people who have no drive. It is not about what you are or are not driving. It is about what is driving you. And for me it is my eight year old daughter. Thank You!
What are you really Getting from Pre-Paid
I have checked into pricing from Pre-paid legal and what use it would do me verse going to a lawyer without the plan. First I called PPL and asked when can I sue the attorney for a case. The case has to be civil and to get the full 100% benifit not the 25% off you have to be being sued by another person. This is basically what it was made for. See the person who started PPL got sued buy another person in court after a traffic accident. Back to the comparison.
A normal lawer for example might charge me $250 for a case but what is 25% off that. Not much. First you have to always come up with a retainer of several hundred dollars in which your monthly dues does not cover at all. Then you have to pay the attorney the fee. for instance PPL lawyer if you use one in the plan is 90 an hour after the %25 but that is still alot of money. Point is nothing is Free. Any Lawyer will talk to you for free on the phone and give you thier opinion maybe for a free visit then you decide if you want them to take up your case in court or not. Thus you retain them.
So, instead of giving your money to PPL save it up for when you need that retainer. Also About this dumb Identity theft. Most Credit cards will take care of your credit reporting and also for speeding tickets and violations they are not covered by the plan if you commited a crime. So, your not going to get out of any violation of the law. That is in the small print.
Hope this help you make your decision or not to spend you money. Personally I like keeping mine untill it is needed. I think I will suprass a 25% discount this is not costo shopping.
Good question... what ARE you getting?
With respect to Dave above, I think he is not considering the math in his examples... PPL is designed as a legal INSURANCE, operating through a pre-paid model. It is not designed to be a legal expenses savings account, nor do they ever promise to be the panacea to cover all of one's legal expenses without limit... it is a pre-paid plan that allows you to secure either a range of commonly used services at no cost, or more elborate services at a reduced cost.
I would also question the worth of any lawyer that would handle a case for $250??? I don't think most lawyers in this country would take you first phone call and office visit for that much, let alone handling the whole case... so if you want to talk dollars to dollars- you have to look at what the total cost of the case is. My largest legal issue, which would have bee handled as a 25% fee discount case with PPL, ran me over $30,000 in legal fees, and I won the case. Straight line numbers with PPL would have left $7,500 more of my dollars in my pocket, and I would have been getting a lower Provider Attorney rate in the first place. And there are NO lawyers that will give you a valid opinion and solution to a probelm for free over the phone just for calling them... try it and see how they react- that is the service that they sell to you for a living, they are not about to go into the business of giving it away. PPL works because of collective buying... enough members in each state support the system so that the Attorneys all make more than enough to handle whate4ver member issues come up each month- obviously not every member is going to have issues all the time.
And Dave, if you believe that your Credit Card company will just take care of any problems created by Identity Theft, I suggest you head over to Starbucks, because you need to smell the coffee. Credit reporting erros exist in an estimated 73% of all creidt histories in this country... and your Credit Card Company had no vesting interest in solving your problems for you... in point of fact just the opposite is true- the more blemishes on your record, the lower your creidt score, and thus the higher the rate of interest they can convince you that you need to pay... there is no self-policing in the credit industry. And the issue of Identity Theft goes way beyond credit reports... what about the online criminal who get ahold of your Social Security information and diverts the benefits accumulation to another account? It happened to my fiancee for 8 years and she never knew it until Identity Theft protection. What about the shoulder surfer who gets your credit card number at the mall and runs up your charges to your limit before you get home from your shopping trip? Your Credit Card Company limits your losses to $50 AFTER they have been notified... but you are at you limit BEFORE they were notified, and if you will check the fine print- you are liable for those charges before notification IN FULL!!! With the Identity Theft protection that PPL offers you have the world's largest investigator and solution provider working to repair any problems, and you have $25,000 in insurance to cover the costs of resolving any problems that Identity Theft causes you. Ask your credit card company if they are going to reimburse you for time off from work to fix a stolen identity? They won't, but ID Theft Shield does...
As to getting out of violations of the law- no service can offer that- it would be criminal, but having an affordable and responsive lawyer available if something does go wrong is just a great idea. Setting some money aside against life's inevitable bumps and bruises is also a good idea, but it doesn't do you all the good you might need if something goes wrong.
Submitted: 3/24/2004 12:50:19 AM
Modified: 3/24/2004 7:22:58 PM
David - Director and Independent Associate
Crestline, CaliforniaU.S.A.
on the road to the American Dream
I have been an Independent Associate of PPLS for some 17 months now and have achieved the level of Director.
I have never in my 40 years been involved in a company the has the integrity, awesome possibilities and unique product as this one. I am not a professional sales person, nor have I every really been in the sales field.
Personally, I feel the start up price of $249 is really much too low. When you consider the overall true cost of doing business is relatively inexpensive as compare to other MLM and traditional businesses, PPLS should be able to charge much more in the start up price. This would help weed out the half hearted. In my short time I have seen profession sales people fail and ordinary stay at home mom's succeed. I have also seen the opposite occur.
It is not what the person is, but what they are willing to put into it on a DAILY basis as with any job or business. If you are looking to get rich quick or think you bought $249 worth of lotto tickets, then you didn't get ripped off'ed, you are naive.
I can fully and honestly say that you Will get from PPLS, what You put into it. Did you do as the training states? Did you consistently make your contacts and follow-ups as your supposed to? If you do and you follow up this simple process with Personal Development you will succeed. I am proof of that.
Son of a truck driver and Western, PA Coal miner. No collage and 9 yrs service in the USMC. All that has changed when I changed my philosophy and detoured from the road I traveled for 38 years. I changed direction and I am now on the road to the American Dream
Proud to Be An Associate!
I have been a proud Associate of Pre-Paid Legal Services for 3 years now. I was in the US Navy for 13 years and afterwards worked in the IT/IS Industry for about 8 years. I DIDN'T want to do this business or any other network marketing business. But I also was unhappy working at the computer manufacturing company I was with for the past 5 years, with no raises and no advancements. Something had to change. In fact, I went full-time in this business last March and yesterday, I saw on the news that this same computer manufacturer was laying off approxiamately 250 employees and SHUTTING DOWN OPERATIONS at their present location AND moving to Southern California.
I also don't have alot of help from my upline initially. BUT I don't let that stop me...I'm a Director, going to Cancun, Mexico for the 3rd time with Pre-Paid Legal footing the bill. Alot of the Associates that aren't experiencing or haven't experienced any success...are not PROACTIVE in getting success in this business. I wonder why they signed up as an Associate in the first place! These are the same people that don't perform well in jobs or do just enough to get by. Well, when you are in business for yourself, knowing you have to eat and pay bills...that should be your WHY but for most it isn't.
You also have to believe success will come for you in this company. Everyone is marketing the same product/services the only variable is Y-O-U. They have a lottery mentality and when they make no money from this business, 'IT doesn't work' when in reality 'THEY didn't work.' This is NOT a get rich scheme, you really have to DO something in order to get paid AND teach others to do the same thing. That's the REAL success not monietary gain!!
As for the membership being worthless, how do you handle your legal situations right now without the Pre-Paid Legal membership? Going further, alot of people complain about paying $26-$35 a month for the membership and ID Theft, but have a gym membership that they don't use and haven't done any 'research' on that company and pay alot more for that membership, drink alcohol, bottled water, have cable Internet connections, television cable,cigerettes, fast-food visits...all costing more than a Pre-Paid Membership does in a month..but guess what when those things fail to satisfy...NO ONE is complaining about them nor have they cancelled those things nor have they contacted customer service to resolve issues either. In fact, the only time people contact customer service is when 'they changed their minds about their purchase and want their money back' and when that doesn't work, any bad press and/or untrue press about the company and/or product will fuel their fires of unsatisfaction.
Most people don't find out what they've purchased with a Pre-Paid Legal membership (or anything else) because they don't read their contract. They only go by what the Associate that sold them the membership told them, not once reading any of the materials that the company sends them (or the Associate leaves them) and encourages them to read. This also applies to Associates as well, who aren't getting any success. People come into this business wanting to do it 'their' way and not the company's way. This baffles me because they wouldn't do that on a job or anything else that's new to them.
Also, people get upset about their membership, when they call their provider law firm and (1) don't get the answer they want to hear or (2) don't get the outcome they wanted to get. Again, this is access to an attorney (at a law firm you couldn't afford otherwise), who is going to tell you the correct answer by law and it may or may not be what you want to hear but it is the correct answer. These same people will go to their broke friends and family members (the same ones who are talking bad about the company and business), none of which are AV rated attorneys specialized in all 26 areas of the law and not even question their answers or motives with their legal situations, they do exactly as those people suggest without question.
This company was started by a man getting into an auto accident and while near death, thought of everyone else but himself..and how this terrible situation could come something great and wonderful and help others so they wouldn't find themselves without legal counsel when they needed it...but cost stopped them from doing so. Having an attorney present can always make the outcome of any situation better.
Pre-Paid Legal is not going anywhere...in fact it contines to grow as we speak!
Director
Independent Associate Pre-Paid Legal Services
what need is there to lie about anything at all?
I think that success with pre-paid really depends on who's introduced you to the service, and who is guiding you.
Right now I'm a college student, and I was introduced to the company by a 'friend' of mine. and when she told me about it, and had me listen to the sizzle call, and listen to the dvd, and the tapes, it all sounded really good. And from what I could see, it honestly didn't seem like a scam or anything.
I became an associate having been told that it was a very part-time job where I could make my own hours and be my own boss... that's not really true, when I realized how much time and money goes into pre-paid, it was a great big let-down. I wasn't told about all the things that I needed to do to be involved in pre-paid legal because my assocites weren't honest and upfront with me. Not only that, but there are a lot of idiosyncrasies that can sometimes make the business seem illegtimate. How can anyone expect people to stay in the business if they're not completely honest?
Pre-paid legal is a growing business who's methods are questionable (sometimes it really does seem on the verge of being a scam). and they have teams all over the country now. No team is the same, so you're gonna have your people who do things right, and then you're gonna have people who do things completely wrong.
But one thing that I have to say is this; if what pre-paid legal is selling is such a good product, and if the associates believe in what they are doing... what need is there to lie about anything at all?
Yeah I agree ..Come on people, WAKE UP!!!
Yeah,
I know what they mean!
If you pay $26 per month for a Prepaid Legal Plan that you never use then that's a waste of money, Right?
I mean, I pay $64 per month for my life insurance and they haven't paid me a penny yet. It's hardly worth it, right?. I think I am going to cancel.
What a scam!!!
I mean, If I keep paying $64 per month for life insurance that gains me nothing all these years I might as well cancel it or I might go broke by the time I die.
Come on people, WAKE UP!!!
Submitted: 6/14/2004 8:10:37 AM
Modified: 6/14/2004 11:27:38 PM
Michael
West Haven, ConnecticutU.S.A.
You Do Get More Than You Pay For
As an Associate of Prepaid Legal Services, let me point out a major oversight! Let's do the math real quick; $26 x 12 months = $312.
With that in mind, a standard living will would cost you more than that or at least very close if you found a really good deal. Everybody is encouraged to fill out the Will Questionnaire because you automatically recover your yearly investment in that one act alone. You single mothers really need to consider that because in many states, if you don't have a will in place and god forbid anything tradgic happen to you, but if it does, the state will determine what happens if you don't have your Will in place. Do you really want that for your child(ren)? I wouldn't.
If you look at it like that, the rest is all bonus benefits! To the person who said he was misled about the amount of time required, you can work this business very part time if you want. It goes back to the point that many others have already made here. You get what you put into it. You can put in a lot of time and probably make a lot of money right away if you follow the systems that have been tested and proven to work. If you put in a little time at the get-go, you'll get a little in return. However, any new Associate that has gone through a New Associate Game Plan Interview should have been shown this neat little thing about Time Leverage. You put in a lot of time at the beginning and make less money so that later on down the road, you put in less time and make more money.
Oh and by the way, if you need legal help to get out of trouble, this probably isn't for you anyway. This is a 'preventive legal plan,' not a 'get me out of trouble' legal plan. If you use the plan as it was designed to be used, the value is incredible.
If you want a lot out of the Prepaid Legal opportunity from the start, be prepared to put in a lot of time. Or better yet, decide to do a little and teach your team to do the same. If you work out the math yourself, it's amazing what can happen if you and your team (on a very part-time basis) each recruited one new associate and sold two additional memberships per month. It's truly amazing what will happen to you after only ten months. With that said, enough said about the PPL opportunity and service!
i feel sorry for you......
i am a sales associate for prepaid legal. the person who got me involved in prepaid has done an incredible job of helping me succeed. i feel sorry for those that do not have the same support. at first i was very nervous and apprehensive at presenting this product to people. my sponsor helped me alleviate these feelings by helping me present on my first few. i've been doing this for 2 weeks and have made $500.00. i've recruited 5 associates and have a great team in place for about 30 hours of work. passion, passion, passion. you have to be passionate about whatever you're doing. if someone sees your passion, they will be passionate also. as far as wekly meetings and training. the weekly meetings are like going to church every week. it keeps you plugged in and charged up, and it's an easy way to present the product. i've sold 3 plans just by taking people to a weekly briefing. the training is FREE. they give your training book and if you listen, a lot of good advice. conference calls are FREE. use them to present. i said earlier i was nervous at first to talk to people. now i can't help myself. this is an awesome product and an awesome opportunity if you approach it the right way. good luck to all of you and stay possitive.
I recently been introduced to PPL and Decided to do some reseach before I made any investment.
Recently I was introduce this 'Investment Opportunity' by a very close and trust worthy friend. I haven't made up my mind exactly on what I am going to do but the things I have found out definatly slowed my first initial enthusiasm.
First off to all of you that think you were mislead or promised more for your money: Sadly most businesses represent a focus on the 'GOOD' and divert you from the bad and definatly advoid if possiable telling you anything that might cause them to lose the sell. IF it isn't in plain text on a contract don't expect it.
Do you think the car salesmen is going to tell you he could of lowered the price another 4grand or when you pay for that candy bar at the store you think the owner is going to tell you he raised the price the normal 30%. Life IS a scam but if you know what you are getting first and still want it then you aren't tricked. Try investing time in research before you invest your money and get it in writting or walk.
I have had to use lawyers in the past and in my long search I have found all to be happy to answer any questions I had at length over the phone and even in person at request even pulling law books down to read to you what they have to go by. It's their interview. If you choose to hire them or not it is based on how they will handle your case, their service is what is costly and I have spent money believe me. Sadly Nothing in my past except maybe the time I spent $500 on a lawyer for traffic tickets would have been covered by PPL. Meaning for me personaly PPL would of cost me more than what I spent if I would of had it the last five years.
This brings me to many questions why pay someone to let me make money for them and why trust some one that seemed to lie about why PPL was started as seen in that Link posted. The founder's accident when he sued first and made more than the suit against him. Still there is no doubt there is money to be made and I could be apart of it but at what moral cost? Afterall it was greed that sparked my interest why should I care about a lie here or hidden text there or divert their attention here tactics. It is a service and it does what it says and does make many people happy and it can and will make money. can I ignore the deceit to satisfy my greed and actually feel good about it. I just don't know.
Submitted: 7/23/2004 8:55:07 AM
Modified: 7/23/2004 11:04:59 AM
Crystal
Pittsburgh, PennsylvaniaU.S.A.
I am willing to make this work!
i am a new recruit i have not yetsold a membership but i know i will i am waiting on some material to come in the mail.
i think this is rediculos for people to be slamming the name of prepaid legal like this i was signed on by my uncle and his girlfriend and they never promised me to become rich or anything like that i know if i want to succeed in this world i have to work hard i too am a single mother and do not have a car but i know if i needed a ride then my uncle would take me the person who signed the young lady up who does not have a ride to get to a meeting sounds like she didnt know what she was doing because in order for her to be sucessful you have to be
i know that most people thought that this was going to be something easy to do but you have to wake up and join the real world not to much comes easy you have to fight and stuggle sometimes but it always pays off at the end
i plan on making this oppertunity work for me i think everyone should read the membership before they sign up to become an associate it pays to read before you sign yourself to a commitment that you may not be ready for
Pre-Paid Legal Work! If you work it will work for you too.
Loser have to blame some one else for their own failures.
When I started out with Pre-Paid legal I had the service for just under 2 years before I started marketing the product. The Service is excellent, having an attorney look over contracts was so helpful.
I started selling Pre-Paid Legal and my upline sponsor was not very helpful. So I looked on up the line till I found someone who would help me. My Executive Director gave me all the help I needed. I followed the system to a T even when things didn't seem like they working for me and eventually they did work. In the first two weeks I signed two new asociates to my team and nine memberships and everyone i've come in contact in the business has been helpful even if they did not profit from talking to me.
Stop whinning and start winning. Life is hard get of your butt and if things don't work one way try another. Sometimes the way people approach people they are so convinced of their own failure by their own body language that no one would want to buy from them. I guarantee send me to any city I'm licenced to sell in. Introduce me to enough people in the right way and I'll clean up!
So turn your finger around successfull people know the buck stops here period! If it aint working for you then change what you are doing. Copy someone who it's working for. Maybe work out and get in a positive metal out look. dreaming about success won't work for you by its self.
You can have what you want to have if you pay the price.
Submitted: 8/10/2004 3:35:57 PM
Modified: 8/11/2004 2:44:18 AMDave
Detroit Michigan, MichiganU.S.A.
This company does have issues
I have a relative who is now selling his car due to his losses after quitting the big 3 here in Michigan. First of all I check out all companies on the web and Pre-Paid is easier to check out since they are listed on the NYSE. First he told me that they had built a new HQ with the cash they had since being a great company. Not true, they barrowed the money in a loan. The company has some strick rules to adhere to in the loan agreement pertaining to membership levels and also that the CEO can not leave his post until the debt is paid in full.
For some reason the company which I am going to find out the reasoning since merril lynch could not tell me I am in the progress to talk to the company about why they are purchasing all common stocks back.
If you own the stock there has been no dividends yet either.
I really do not see this stock like many moving at any high rate of speed either. Though it is not dropping either.
The 'Active' Member rate is kind of difficult to figure out since they are combining people with this Identity Thefy as a member.
They also are Down this quarter 600$ in profits from last six months ago.
As far as the rates. In the attorney they use here they charge $90.00 an hour for working. that is the rate contracted. That is for all Contracted work. If it falls out of the plan then it is 25% off the normal rates of that firm.
They only cover you being sued not you being the pursuer. So I hope that you are not needing to Sue anyone and use them.
All I can say is that for someone this might have a use.
Finally as being an agent signing members up I would nbe weary of spending the earning utill you have them active for over 12 months. This is due to the case that if they quit you must repay the remaining back to PPL. So, I know somepeople are not getting paid because of dropping memembers. Per the annual report over 50% of member quit in the fisrt year.
What I have written here is not Debateable just facts of what you are joined into. Good luck!
I would keep looking for a solid Job!
PS Member ships have not increaded but stayed the same or dropped off some. Don't believe me go get the annual report.
It all depends on the provider attorney...
I am an attonrey in Southern California and I've done a little bit of reading about the plans that Pre-Paid Legal offers. I have no affiliation with Pre-Paid Legal and I have no opinion on the quality of their network of lawyers, but I do have a couple of general comments.
In the past, I have offered my own clients services similar to what Pre-Paid Legal offers. I would client a small yearly retainer. In exchange, they would get free telephone consultations and about 15% on my normal hourly rate. What I found is that clients were more willing to consult with me if they didn't have to worry about the cost of the telephone call. I can handle most civil matters, but there are certain areas where I would need to refer my client elsewhere. Criminal and divorce matters are good example of matters that I don't hand personally.
The value of the Pre-Paid Legal services plan really depends on the quality of the lawyer that you are assigned to and how often you take advantage of the free phone calls. Many consumers can find their own attorney and not necessarily have to pay a yearly retainer. I give free consultations all the time just so to get my name out. It all depends on your needs and ability to use the services.
Submitted: 8/30/2004 4:01:38 PM
Modified: 8/30/2004 10:54:16 PMDave
Santa Barbara, CaliforniaU.S.A.
I have put far more into Pre-Paid Legal than I will ever get out of it, but it is not their fault
I have not read every single comment about Pre-Paid Legal, however, I feel I must comment.
I was first introduced to Pre-Paid Legal in 1987, and have had a membership in their service ever since, as well as having been an Independent Associate all of that time. (By the way, this is the only way the service is marketed). Each Independent Associate is in business for themselves,(and any contracts they make are their own, they cannot bind Pre-Paid Legal, Inc to any binding contract). Prepaid Legal is set up on a Network Marketing program, not a pyramid deal. Granted, there have been Independent Associates that have ripped off individuals by making promises they are not allowed to, nor are able to deliver. When these individuals are discovered, Pre-Paid Legal not only terminates their agreement with them, but takes action against them to recover damages.
As far as not covering everything, certain legal issues are not covered (bankruptcy, divorce, dui and so on) under the first section of the membership, however, it is explained in the membership material that the individual can use their toll free consultation to speak to an attorney (for an unlimited amount of time) about these issues, as well as retain an attorney at a reduced rate. Please keep in mind, because of some state laws, memberships vary in a few states, you would need to check out the membership information for any given state before knowing exactly what can be expected.
When you sign up for any program such as Pre-Paid Legal, read what you are signing, make sure it says the same thing that you have been told. What's in print is what is binding. NO, PRE-PAID LEGAL IS NOT A RIP OFF. But with like any other company, it is possible to get bad people involved who take advantage of a good thing, Once they are caught, they move on to the next program and do it all over again.
For the record, I have put far more into Pre-Paid Legal than I will ever get out of it, but it is not their fault, it is mine, for not working with one of the best programs in America today. I simply maintain my independent associate status so when I come across someone who could benefit from a membership, I can get them set up. I never expected to get rich off of it, not even for one day. Nor have I tried to.
Pre Paid is NOT a Pyramid Scheme. That is so ridicolous.
A Pyramid is where the people on top make all the money from the efforts of the people on the bottom? Hmm.. what organization does that remind you of? Ooh! How about Corporate America!
Go to college for 6 years - get a degree and then get a what? get a what? a J.O.B (Just over broke)
President Owner of the company.
Vice President.
Chief of Operations.
Managers.
Workers - Crew.
Now who is making all the money? Is it the president? Yes! Oh wait, who is doing all the work? The President? Nope! The workers are doing all the work while the President is making all the money.
Realistic Scare factor: You people who put down PPL or any other MLM company, you better watch out.
Statically every 10 years prices double. Say you live for 20 more years, how are you going to live when you retire? Is your 401K ready to pay $8 for a loaf of bread? How about $9 for one gallon of gas? Want to go to a movie? Tickets are now $10 in 20 years, try $30. Are you ready for the future? I guess it's better to follow Corporate America's plan. Prepare your Walmart applications now, you might be the next 70 year old working for them.
Have a nice day!
Submitted: 9/30/2004 8:45:45 PM
Modified: 9/30/2004 10:52:01 PMJustin
Albuquerque, New MexicoU.S.A.
MIND OVER MATTER
First of all I have heard and believe it is hard to sell an illegal Legal plan.
Your belief/desire and commitment are the key to you succeding in anything you do. Positive or negative? Destructive or constructive?
I have been an associate of Pre-Paid Legal for about 3 months. The Pre-Paid Legal plan Is a phenomenal service I regret not getting it three years ago When one of the top producers presented the membership to me. The other day my provider law firm called me thats right they called me to inform me about a situation they were helping me with. The result of this situation paid for my membership for about three months, on my own efforts I would not of gotten the sincere apology and or a gift card of $100.00. The services works.
As for the business opportunity you can or can't make money with it if you believe. Believe you can you will, believe you can't you won't.
The saying mind over matter is true as can be. Belief backed by faith and a plan and commitment in anything you pursue will acheive the results you want.
Submitted: 10/6/2004 8:10:26 PM
Modified: 10/6/2004 8:41:39 PMLiz
Stokesdale, North CarolinaU.S.A.
Pre-Paid Legal Is a Rip Off - hell to cancel the membership and they will continue to withdraw money from your bank account
Once you join Pre-Paid Legal, it is hell to cancel the membership and they will continue to withdraw money from your bank account.
I joined Pre-Paid Legal because I thought I needed Legal Council. It turned out I was able to resolve my issue on my own without legal help. At that time I was paying Pre-Paid Legal a monthly rate. They told me I could cancel anytime.
So I notified Pre-Paid to cancel. The postal mail me this form to sign and fax back to them to cancel. They do indeed have my cancelled form signed and they have stopped drafting $24.00 a month, yet for the past 2-months after I cancelled, I still see this $16.00 a month charge that is hell to stop.
Pre-Paid continues to automatically draft that $16.00 a month from my checking account, after I have signed the required form 3-times to cancel any and all services with them.
I am sure there are others out there where Pre-Paid is taking $16.00 a month from them also.
Never ever pay for any monthly services with Pre-Paid from your checking account, because if you cancel, they will still draft your checking account every month automatically.
Pre-Paid Legal is a Rip-Off to steal $16.00 a month.
Submitted: 11/10/2004 9:52:04 PM
Modified: 11/10/2004 11:31:49 PMJustin
Philadelphia, PennsylvaniaU.S.A.
Understanding PPL
Pre-Paid Legal a rip off?
I hardly think so.
First you must understand the product.
If you are an individual that purchases anything or enrolls in anything without understanding and reading what your signing - then you should not be an independent associate or self employed at all. You need to be working for someone else because you lack the skills to be self sufficient.
Second, Pre-Paid legal memberships are designed for individuals who fall under the catagory of 'victim' not 'offender'. If you are a criminal looking for a cheap lawyer then forget it.
If you are an honest person who desires preventative protection and direction, then a PPL membership is for you.
I just don't understand why people always want something for nothing.
Submitted: 11/12/2004 1:39:50 AM
Modified: 11/12/2004 10:47:39 PMTimothy
Los Angeles, CaliforniaU.S.A.
Rebuttal to the Employee's claims above ..I would encourage any potential members to do their homework
To the above defenders of PPL, I must add my voice to the legion of detractors who remain critical of this company despite its many 'redeeming values'.
First: To employees whose anecdotes claim this company is legitimate simply because it is listed on the NYSE: Enron was likewise once listed here; its business practices (as the nation has found) were ignoble and quite disreputable.
Second: Please do click on the following link: http://www.wesh.com/money/2263426/detail.html
It is a relatively current article critical of PPL and similar services. Those who are looking for current proof of fraudulent behavior on the part of this enterprise need look no further. Forthwith, no claim should be made that the matter of lawsuits leveled agains the company are obscelescent and no longer a relevant matter.
Third: I am a lawyer working in Southern California, and from the materials my 18 year old daughter (an ex- 'independent associate') brought home, I can say with certainty that PPL is in fact, a pyramid scheme. For those who seek to downplay this claim, I would recommend 'Coercion: Why We Listen to What 'They' Say', by Douglas Rushkoff. PPL fits all the prerequisites of a pyramid scheme, and further analysis will find that PPL is guilty of the many sins associated with a company fronting for a scam.
Irrespective of your agreement or lack thereof with regards to my own findings, I would encourage any potential members to do their homework, and to perform their own research regarding this company.
Submitted: 11/14/2004 6:16:05 PM
Modified: 11/14/2004 11:16:41 PMHector
Gaithersburg, MarylandU.S.A.
Not a pyramid scheme
All of this talk about pre-paid being a scam and such is crazy to me. Of course there have been unhappy associates and unhappy members for whatever reason. Some valid, some not valid. Yes there have been lawsuits against the company and accusations of fraudulent behavoir. But I want to ask if some can find me a large cormporation that is doing something of significance that has NOT had those similar lawsuits, unhappy employees and customers, etc. No one will be able to respond because there are none, unless the company started today. So to all of the folks who have stated that it has not been working out for them here two options, move on cause it's just not for you, or stop sweating the small stuff that really does not effect you and just get to work. That's why we have a corporate office so that we as independent associates do not have to deal with all those issues. Just keep the main thing the main thing and stay consistent, and keep your job, building pre-paid part time, it can and will work for you.
By the way, the true definition of a pyramid scheme is when money is being exchanged without a product or service being rendered. So clearly there is a valid service being provided and no one is compensated unless that service is sold. Because we do not get paid simply for recruiting people and thats it. Only when you or someone else market a membership. And that is clear. I wish everyone much success in your future endevours.
Submitted: 11/16/2004 3:25:52 PM
Modified: 11/16/2004 7:17:50 PMJustin
Forrest City, ArkansasU.S.A.
Pre-Paid Legal Is For Everyone, but it isn't for everyone!!
I've read everything that you all have said about Pre-Paid Legal Services Inc. and you all have the right to your opinion. But to me Pre-paid legal is the best thing that has ever happened to me. When they say they pay you EVERYDAY, they MEAN IT, when they say the membership does what they say it does, THEY MEAN IT. Now if you've had trouble with the service then contact the person that signed you up for the service that way they can report it to Pre-Paid Legal Corporate Office, and an investigation can start, because Pre-Paid legal Services has gotten rid of Plenty lawfirms for mistreating and misrepresenting their customers. And also let's remember that there are bad people in everything. I mean even Jesus recruited 12 disciples and one of them went crazy, so don't let the negative comments affect your business, we all know what Pre-paid legal is about. And network marketing is a business of performance, and that means if you perform then you get paid, and if you don't perform then you don't get paid, and if you don't like that then the business is not for you, because Pre-Paid Legal isn't looking for everyone, we're only looking for those people that are looking for us. So if you don't like it, it's ok, the company is still gonna get big, because we have a need and a demand for what we're doing. So to everyone that think pre-paid legal is a scam, think that and just leave it alone, but get all the facts first. And do all my pre-paid legal family members, remember Mr. Stonecipher said that we're on a Crusade and when your on a crusade you're going to have attacks, but we will still stand tall in the end. God Bless
We Don't Want Everyone...!!
The Pre-Paid Legal Business Opportunity is for everyone but not everyone is wanted. Read it twice if you must. We're not begging or convincing anyone to take advantage of this business opportunity. I've read these rebuttals from time to time and it's amazing how many people can find fault with this business. I actually attend the regular business briefings in my area and I can point to the young men and women who actually went to WORK and became successful on their own merits or with the help of a team and most importantly through personal development. The Internet is full of people who got into network marketing and failed as well as people who got into network marketing and succeeded. That word WORK is involved in each and every case or testimony whether there be alot of work done towards success or no work done which induced failure. Let's remember the company has a system in place that one wanting success should follow as well as 10 core committments. Anything outside of those things can also induce failure or a little success for a little while.
Also, alot of men and women are not too fond of the word WORK as well.
Here is the 'homework' that I've done...paid $249 and got my investment and more back in two days from the comfort of my own living room (there's that system again). That was 3 years ago and during that time I've heard all the excuses from people who let others talk them out of the business. The company has paid for my wife and I to go to Cancun, Mx three times during the last 3 years. How many of you who work at someone else's dream had your company do that for you??? Did they even WANT to do that for you??
Since someone talks about Enron, Pre-Paid Legal just WON (2) court cases. There are those who say the company is a pyramid scheme and full of deception and half-truths...yet they chose to DEFEND THEMSELVES instead of settling the cases outside of the courtroom. How stupid is that?? One of the court cases was in a county that has a reputation for being a good place to file lawsuits against large corporations. The juries there, history proves, have been particularly friendly to even the most frivolous plaintiffs' complaints. Despite this, Pre-Paid Legal refused to be intimidated, fought the good fight and came up with a well-deserved victory. In fact, it was a SHUT OUT. As the jury announced its verdict it became clear that the count was 12 jurors to 0 in favor of dismissing the suit. DO CLICK ON THIS LINK:
http://www.adaeveningnews.com/Adanewswebpages/editorial.htm
So I say instead of arguing with these people who say Pre-Paid Legal is a scam or pyramid scheme, Associates just do your business!!
Pyramid schemes are not traded on the NYSE!! Do you honestly think a company that works with a national network of attorneys as well as attorneys in Canada, various state regulatory agencies and various Attorney Generals have all been made a fool of for 32 years because none of them could see a scam right under their very noses??? How ridiculous is that??? Why haven't these law firms and Attorney Generals found the company to be a pyramid scheme??
This company has also provided the membership as an employee benefit since its inception, so they've also hookwinked a bunch of CEO's and HR managers too right...???
Until you actually know the difference between a pyramid scheme and a LEGITIMATE network marketing company, perhaps it would be best to refrain from calling this company a pyramid
scheme. This company is a LEGITIMATE network marketing company and it made $361 million in gross revenue last year with 11 Years Straight of continued growth without the help of alot of people on this ripoffreport board...and it will continue to do so....!!
Pre-Paid Legal Information
Why the stark contrast between Pre-Paid Legal detractors and supporters? Because some really have had positive experiences with the company, while others have paid for the service, and found no use for it. Furthermore, the anecdotal evidence of those who have benefited from their Pre-Paid Legal tells a different story than the overall perspective that a researcher may have.
Almost half of the members who sign up for the service cancel within their first year. Associates who sold the plans on “advanced commission" then owe that “unearned" portion of their commission back to Pre-Paid Legal. So associates who decide to market Pre-Paid Legal services would be well advised to brush up on their ability to retain customers or choose to “as earned" commission, where they are paid monthly percentages of what their sold memberships are paying.
Another interesting fact is that Pre-Paid Legal Inc has been around for about 32 years now, and seems to have trouble breaking the 1.5 million membership mark as memberships are being cancelled almost as fast as they are being sold. The problem with growth here appears to be retaining members, not selling to them. Somewhere in the league of 700,000 Pre-Paid Legal memberships are sold yearly, and this has led many detractors to claim that the service simply doesn't offer what it's supposed to.
Detractors will also point out that, in stark contrast to Pre-Paid Legal, HMO's broke through the roof within 10-15 years. Supporters however, will note that there are other providers of such services (though some offer little more than referral services) which cumulatively amount to an impressive ‘Legal Services' market. Such companies include Hyatt, ARAG, and Link2Legal.
Third party articles on Pre-Paid Legal range from testimonials of its greatness and its necessity in everyday life, to columns claiming or at least implying that is a pyramid scheme. Despite some of these claims however, Pre-Paid Legal has been extremely successful in fending off lawsuits from former associates and members claiming they were somehow ripped off.
At one point in time, Pre-Paid Legal was one of the most highly shorted (possibly the highest) companies in the NYSE. To detractors, the fact that short sellers saw this as a company worth shorting (meaning they saw a downfall to the company that would allow them to profit from shorting the stock) provided further evidence that the company was a scam. Pre-Paid's supporters saw it the other way around however. They believed that the short sellers were responsible for much of its negative publicity. Fresh off of a victory against some of it's lawsuits in Mississippi, Pre-Paid Legal's (PPD) stock just jumped significantly. It will be interesting to see where the company goes from here.
To sum it all up, Pre-Paid Legal has helped a lot of people, but this would seem to be more of an exception than a rule. On the flip-side, those who don't benefit from the service aren't typically harmed by it either.
Pyramid scheme, or not, take the test to decide.
Hello to all,
I couldn't resist adding my two cents, because of the ongoing debate of whether PPL is a pyramid scheme, or not.
This test comes from the Pyramid Scheme Alert website, and I believe everyone should use the guidelines provided, to come to an informed decision.
To those who believe that because PPL sells a service, and therefore doesn't qualify as a pyramid scheme, I strongly urge you to read on.
The key to identifying the potential harm of a MLM program is to look for elements in the compensation system that creat extremely high leverage for the top persons in the hierarchy of participants. MLM leverage refers to the concentration of payments from the company to founding and other top-level distributors, who profit hugely from the efforts and purchases of a multitude of distributors beneath them, the vast majority of whom lose both time and money.
CHAINING
Question 1 : Does a participating distributor advance through a chain of multiple levels of distributors by recruiting other distributors, who in turn recruit distributors under them, etc. ?
Answer: (NO) - If there is no chaining of participants into levels based upon recruiting, and if a participant does not progress through those levels by recruiting others, then the program would not qualify as a pyramid scheme and is probably harmless.
Answer: (YES) - All MLM programs, as well as illegal pyramid schemes, and chain letters have this multi-level chaining characteristic in common. But be cautious about joining programs in which you are recruited into a chain of distributors (agents, representatives, etc.) which are organized into multiple levels, especially where the position of the chain is determined by timing of entrance into the program and by success at recruiting others. while a few earn substantial profits, most participants lose both time and money.
In theory, the use of person-to-person referrals is a very powerful maketing strategy. And with outstanding products, fast-talking promoters, and/or connections with famous persons or notable experts, it is easy to be taken in by their appeal.
It should also be noted that quality of products or services often becomes questionable when incentives are tied to recruitment. This would apply to such products and services as health products, investments, or internet services.
For most MLM's, income is dependant primarily on downline recruiting. As a general guideline, if you must recruit to be successful, or if a program's emphasis is on building a downline, it is a de facto pyramid scheme, whether or not it has been declared illegal by authorities. You may just be setting yourself up for wasting much precious time and money, depending on factors that can be identified by answering the following questions.
UNLIMITED RECRUITING
Question 2 : In any area, is unlimited recruiting of distributors allowed--and even encouraged?
Answer: (NO) - If reasonable territorial protection is offered to participants in a given area, the program would not soon collapse from market saturation. Recruiters would not be as likely to promote the illusion of an ever-expanding market and of the potential for very large incomes for vitually all new recruits.
Answer: (YES) - With unlimited recruiting, new recruits find it increasingly difficult to recruit more participants into the system. This is due to market saturation, wherein prospects perceive a diminishing opportunity to profit from participation.
To illustrate an approach more in line with maket realities, suppose the program were limited to one distributor for each 10,000 population in a given area or to one distributor within each one mile radius - much like the territorial protectionn of a retail franchise. The problem of saturation would not be significant.
But limiting the amount of recruiting or the number of distributors in a given area is uncharacteristic of MLM because that would lessen the illusion of the potential for very large incomes for new recruits. Such limitations would render a pyramid scheme impotent.
PAY TO PLAY
Question 3 : Are participants expected to make a significant investment, or to make ongoing purchases in order to continue qualifying for bonuses, purchase discounts, etc.?
Answer: (NO) - If the investment in the scheme is minimal and repeat investments are not expected, it may still be a pyramid scheme, but the harmful effects will be minimized.
Answer: (YES) - If you have to pay a fee or to buy products to get into a program -- and are then expected to keep on purchasing products, services, training, etc., in order to progress in the orginization, be wary. You paying ongoing fees to 'play the Game',one of the earmarks of a product-based pyramid scheme. If you add the operating costs of selling and recruiting to the cost of purchases from the company, total expenses will generally exceed any payments to you from the MLM company.
Pyramid schemes masquerading as MLM's are often allowed to grow and flourish unchecked because they do not require a large up-front enrollment fee to sign up. Because recruiters generally do not profit from the initial enrollment fee of a recruit, it is often assumed the program is not a pyramid scheme.
In fact, nothing may be further from the truth. MLM programs typically incorporate escalating incentives to purchase products (some at initial signup, some later) to qualify for ever-higher levels in the distributorship hierarchy and/or for larger discounts on product purchases. As a result, MLM 'distributors' often overuse products or give away a lot of samples. Others fill their garages with products they don't need, in spite of policies to the contrary. The argument that participants would have purchased the products from another source anyway, and that these purchases should not be considered an expense of doing business, simply does not hold water.
Also, because some compensation systems offer incentives for recruiting and retaining a certain number of distributors (or escalating incentives to recruit more and more distributors), many participants will recruit 'dummy distributors' from friends and family members and buy products in their names. They are led to believe this will then qualify them for 'the really big bucks'. It is not until they leave the system that the more astute among them realize that they have in effect paid a very large fee (in the form of product purchases) for participation in a pyramid scheme. Often this amounts to many thousands of dollars over a period of months or years.
Such an amount paid at the start into a no-product pyramid scheme would immediately arouse suspicions by the public and by regulators of its constituting an illegal pyramid scheme. But since the money paid into an MLM program is paid for legitimate products and over a period of time, most participants (and many regulators) fail to see it as an investment in a pyramid scheme. However this 'pay to play' feature of a product based distribution system should be seen as a red flag signaling an illegal pyramid scheme.
Many observers believe that MLM products are sold at a premium to support a large downline. If an MLM product were to be sold at a premium of $20 more than competitve products sold thru other outlets, the $20 premium could be considered the pyramid premium portion of the price, which would flow to the top of the distributor Hierarchy in typical pyramid fashion.
As suggested earlier, what is often not factored in to projections made at opportunity meetings is the expenses of conducting the business. In most programs, if products purchased from the company (which would not likely have been purchased if the person had not been a participant in the program) and operating expenses were subtracted from commissions, few-except for those at the top levels-would be making any profits. The vast majority would actually be losing money, only to enrich the MLM company and fatten the bank accounts of the top upline distributors, in the form of overrides from product purchases by downline participants.
DISPROPORTIONAL PAYMENTS
Question 4 : Would a distributor receive about the same payment from the company for a wholesale purchase--or for a retail sale--as distibutors several levels above him/her who had nothing to do with it?
Answer: (NO) - If the pay is spread out to all participants, or if no pay is received at all, it may be a pyramid scheme, but probably not harmful or worth enforcement action against it as an illegal pyramid scheme.
Answer: (YES) - MLM plans typically offer very small rewards to front line distributors who actually sell the products and services of the company. So the only way to achieve significant income is to rise to the top of the distributor hierarchy by recruiting a large downline of distributors.
Many MLM compensation systems lead to extreme inequality in payout (money paid by the company) to distributors, which means there are few 'winners' --but a high loss rate (after subtracting all expenses) for the rest of the participants. Often these 'losers' will invest considerable amounts of time and money and then quit, blaming themselves. But their 'failure' is not due so much to lack of effort on their part as to a SYSTEM which is stacked infavor of a few at the expense of the many.
In other direct sales settings, it is not unusal for a successful commissioned sales person to receive more income than sales managers at local or even regional levels. this is because the person making the sale makes more in commissions per sale (often 20-40%) than managers two or three levels above him/her. But in many MLM programs, upline distributors several layers removed from the actual sale receive as much or more in total payments per sale (including commissions and bonuses) from the company as the person who actually sold the product - who may get only five or ten % from the company.
EXCEPTIONS: In some cases, MLM's depart from this pattern of paying front-line distributors no more per sale than upline distrbutors several levels removed from the sale. For example, for MLM's which provide financial services, companies have to meet certain commission requierments for sales by their agents. In cases such as these, one should look at the overrides beyond the agent commissions, which are paid to upline participants in the hierarchy. If overrides for participants several levels above the agent making the sale are the same as for the person who recruited the agent, the result will be an undue emphasis on recruiting and extreme inequality in company payout to participants.
As mentioned earlier, since the total payout per sale is limited, when upline distributors receive substantial overrides from the sale by downline distributors,this limits the percentage of commissions to the person making the sale. so the income of the front line distributors is extremely limited, forcing them to recruit a large downline to realize a significant income. Powerful incentives may then be at work to recruit a downline in order to 'make the really big bucks' collecting small overrides on hundreds even thousands of downline participants. MLM promoters call this 'leverage'. When the leverage is extreme, the program should be considered an illegal pyramid scheme.
MLM companies usually suggest that distributors who buy at wholesale prices from the company can then sell them at an elevated retail price, such as happens in more conventional retail outlets, thus allowing a significant profit margin for the distributor. The problem is that suggested retail prices for MLM products are generally too high to be competitve with other outlets. So MLM distributors wind up purchasing large quantities for themselves and their families and/or selling most products at wholesale prices to downline participants in order to meet volume requirements for bonus or discount levels.
Also, extreme incentives to recruit a downline often lead to many of the attendant deceptions for which such programs are notorious - overstating income potential and/or product effectiveness, deceptive recruiting practices,etc. Doing less may not produce any significant income. This explains why many otherwise honest persons eventually mimic the deceptions of their upline and either rationalize or fail to see the fraudulence of their actions.
EXCESSIVE LEVELS
Question 5: Does the company pay overrides or commissions on more than four levels above the distributor making a sale or purchase?
Answer: (NO) - If no more than four upline levels are allowed above the distributor buying or selling the product, then the system may be quite harmless, since customers may be served without excessive upline remuneration. No upline distributors are likely to receive exhorbitant incomes at the expense of their respective downliners.
In fact, with a maximum of four levels, most systems would die out for lack of opportunity for top distributors to receive extremely large override checks. Blatant appeals to greed would be minimized.
Answer: (YES) - More than 5 levels in the distributor hierarchy enriches those at the top, at the expense of a multitude of downline participants, the vast majority of whom lose money.
For even the largest of conventional distributor arrangements, the entire U.S. can be covered by a maximum of four supervisory levels in the distributorship hierarchy; e.g. branch managers, district mgrs., regional mngrs., and national sales manager -plus an international manager if one is needed for foreign markets. More than that is superflous and bloated, driving up product prices and making sales at a competitive retail markup unprofitable and unrealistic.
When several levels are allowed in an MLM hierarchy of distributors, there is seldom any functional justification for doing so other than to encourage recruiting and the illusion of very large potential incomes to more participants than is mathmatically possible -- a hallmark of many pyramid schemes. Only those distributors at the top of the hierarchy of the participants realize any significant income.
Also, with an upline of many levels, the top-level distributors may be profiting to an extreme degree from the losses (including products that would not have been puchased had the investing distributors not gotten involved) of those beneath them. Such exorbitant incomes result from reaping of huge commissions, overrides and bonuses from the combined efforts and investments (in the form of product purchases) fo the hundreds or even thousands of downline participants.
This is what MLM enthusiasts often refer to as 'leverage' or 'residual income' -- large company payouts disproportionate to effort expended, resulting primarily from the purchases of downline participant. Leverage can be illustrated by adding up a downline of participants that is extended to six levels -- although many programs allow for many more levels. But for the purpose of illustration, assume that a 'distributor' recruits five active distributors,each of whom recruits five more, and so on through six levels of distributors. Lets assume a $5 commission on each sale. The exponential growth of the pyramid becomes evident:
LEVEL 1: 5 distributors X $5 in commissions & bonuses = $25 a month
LEVEL 2: 25 + 5 = 30 total Distributors X $5 in commissions & bonuses = $150 a month
LEVEL 3: 125 + 30 = 155 total distributors X $5 in commissions & bonuses = $775/month
LEVEL 4: 625 + 155 = 780 total distributors X $5 in comm. & bonus =$3,900/month
LEVEL 5: 3,125 + 780 = 3,905 distributors X $5 in comm. & bonus = $19,525/month
LEVEL 6: 15,625 + 3,905 = 19,530 distributors X $5 in comm. & bonus = $97,650/month!!!
If each 'distributor' (or 'participating consumer') were to buy enough products each month to yield an override of $5 in commissions and bonuses to the original upline distributor, then with a five-level downline, the upline distributor gets $19,525 per month, while with a complete six-level downline the same distributor gets $96,650 per month. The incentive to recruit to move up a level becomes very great.
Of course it seldom works out that way, but these are the type of figures that are often presented to prospective new recruits at MLM opportunity meetings. This example illustrates why so much emphasis is placed on recruiting, as opposed to selling products to persons outside the pyramid. $97,650 is much more appealing than $100 that might be earned by a level 1 distributor for selling the products at the full retail price (assuming $20 markup on products sold to each of five customers - before expenses). In comparison with recruiting, retailing products at full retail price becomes a waste of time.
WARNING!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!!
If the answer to all five questions is 'yes' then the MLM program should be considered a harmful pyramid scheme in concept, structure, and effects -- regardless of quality of products offered, type of compensation system (binary, breakaway, matrix, unilevel, etc.), company policy regarding recruiting, or any other efforts by company officials to make its program appear to be legitimate. The primary emphasis will be on deriving income from recruiting with insufficient incentive to retail products or services.
Also -- if all five of the above are true, then the likelihood of a distributor earning a significant income is so infinitessimally small that it would be misleading to say that any significant income could be realized from it, even with dilligent effort. If a recruiter then suggests that a high percentage of participants can earn a significant income from such a program, a case can be made for misrepresention of earnings or deceptive sales practices. And if a sizable investment of products is encouraged to 'jump start' the business, it may be appropriate to ask if the recruiter has registered as a broker-dealer of securities.
While none of the above five yes responses in and of themselves costitutes a pyramid scheme, a combination of four(the first four) or all five most certainly indicates a high enough degree of exploitation to be considered very harmful(and probably illegal) pyramid scheme, if properly understood. In actuality many participants are not 'distributors' at all, but unwitting investors in a pyramid scheme.
The effects of such a system can be measured by requiring existing MLM companies to release data on payout to all participants (not just active ones) by percentiles after subtracting average purchases for gross income before operating expenses. It will then be seen that very large incomes accruing to the top distributors in the hierarchy are financed by the losses on the part of the vast majority of participants.
Is PPL a pyramid scheme? Will any representatives of PPL take the test, and answer the questions honestly? It will be interesting to see, yes?
Best regards,
Submitted: 11/18/2004 11:37:13 AM
Modified: 11/18/2004 1:46:10 PMAlcina
Crestline, CaliforniaU.S.A.
Taking your TEST William....
Hi William,
I've been an Independent Associate with Pre Paid Legal Services Inc for a little more than 2 years and Well I just LOVE the Company, and the Product. It is without a doubt the best thing I have ever purchased and gives me a sense of 'Peace of Mind' that money just can't buy. I will NEVER be ripped off again. In the last 2 years just using my membership has saved me more than I would pay for it for AT LEAST the next 20 years.
It helps me protect my rights and there are a couple little things that have been stated over the years in regards to this product that burn in my soul...'In this country it's better to be rich and guilty, than poor and innocent.' Just pick up your daily paper and you'll know that's a FACT. 'Equal Justice Under Law is etched in granite on the front facade of the Supreme Courthouse building and it's a LIE because in this country you only get as much justice as you can afford'...and that's a FACT.
When I was 26 I lent my girlfriend my car, she accidentally drove it off a dock and a young man who was with her in the front seat drown. We were in the Navy at the time and she was Court Martialed and found INNOCENT...It was a true accident, they had cut the lights off on the dock and you couldn't see where the edge was AT ALL. 2 days before a year was up. I was served with a lawsuit suing ME for 1 MILLION dollars, the collective suit was for $10 MILLION...a deep pocket attempt to get anything from anyone. I had to defend myself to the tune of a $4 THOUSAND dollar retainer, afterward I still owed another $500 after I was released from the suit...I was 27, a single mom with a 7 year old daughter, serving my country and making less than $900 a month. I can't even begin to tell you what effects this had on me mentally...it was definitely more injurous than my out of pocket expenses.... Think about how you would feel knowing someone had DIED in your car when your sole purpose in life was to SAVE lives.
IF I had had a Pre Paid Legal plan it would have cost me NO MORE than my meesly $26 a month. I had to borrow the money, because the Navy wouldn't help me AT ALL, which dropped my income from $900 a month to $700 a month for almost 2 years...How's that for a BIG screw job?...Who gained anything from this?...the Lawyers PERIOD. It didn't bring him back to life and added insult to an already very emotionally trying injury to ALL involved....
I KNOW what Pre Paid Legal Services Inc is about...It means to me that the above will NEVER happen to anyone I love...EVER!
So I'll take your challenge...here goes...
#1 YES the structure is more new Associates than the one Founder & CEO... and I believe that's true of ANY job.
Let's take my hospital.. The Janitor earns less than the Certified Nursing Attendant who earns less than the LVN who earns less than the RN who earns less than Nursing Manager who earns less than the Nursing Supervisor who earns less than the Nursing Administator who earns less than the Doctor who earns less than the Surgeon who earns less than the Medical Director who earns less than the COO who earns less than the CEO...So that's what 12 levels deep ?...hmmm ..so there goes question #5 because when you get to Director and someone on your team hits Director the commission is at a Director 'Breakaway' level and the pay is commesurate with the VALUE YOU bring to the marketplace...That's why the RN makes so much more than the Janitor. The janitor is valuable, but the RN is more valuable hence...earns more..ie.. If I personally market say 300 memberships...I become a Director WITHOUT the neccesity of a downline, because in this company you can get to the top on your efforts alone, it's ALOT of efforts, but it's possible. I have a company right now I'm in negotiations with 650 employees...so it's VERY DOable.
Also in regards to question #5..there is NO retail markup. I get to offer my friends the exact SAME BARGAIN I get.
So #5 is YES and NO
#2 YES, but with less than 2% memberships in the country satuation really isn't an issue right now, 5 years from now I may have to ammend that statement. Where I live folks take cards off the side of my car and call me..'I had a membership and let it lapse.. I need it' or ' I have a (friend, family member or other) who has this and I want it'..or 'I talked to an Attorney and it's going to cost me $200 for the first hour'...So saturation isn't an issue...yet.. and I think we may have a ways to go..which is cool for me...because that means $$$$ in MY pocket for providing a membership that I KNOW everyone needs and CAn afford, but they just don't know that fact yet.
#3 NO I don't have to buy ANYTHING else...ever and it would cost me more not to have the membership than it does to have it.
#4 NO due to the No markup in selling a membership and YES to the increased value an Associate brings to the marketplace.
#5 which I already answered but will answer again for conformity YES more than 4 levels and NO Director Breakaway...And in regards to this statement 'making sales at a competitive and retail markup unprofitable and unrealsistic' NO markup..What I pay is what everyone I market to pays.
So I hope I kept them in order. The notes I made on my desktop were in my typical nursey scribble.
So that's what I think MHO...actually I can't say that, because I don't feel humble about Pre Paid Legal Services Inc...I feel PRIDE, yeah in caps. It pains me to see some of the detractor's statements, because who I am IS a Nurse. I take care of people it's just what I do...somewhere along the line they got the wrong message and I would so love to fix it... especially for the folks whose upline just didn't quite get the company's policies. Being an Associate has changed my entire LIFE. It is such a PERFECT vehicle for the folks who have lost their dreams who struggle everyday just to get through the day...Oh man it brings tears to my eyes, I wish someone had shared this with me when I was a young single mother trying to make ends meet...but they never meet that's why their called 'ends'.
I know what it's like to be on Welfare to take your kid to the babysitter's so they can eat because you have NO food in the house...been there done that. And it will NEVER happen to my children because I'm already grooming them to be Associates, because I don't think this market will hit saturation. There will always be some naysayers who just don't 'Get It' and that's cool with me. Because I'm building the American Dreams my parents had, but never achieved.
So there you go ..I hope it made sense and I was able to verbalize my convictions to my business...Yes MY business, success or failure..It's all up to just one person and that's ME.
Take Care and thanks for your post it feels so good to let this out of my heart.
'Think' about the Tax benefits
To all who failed at Pre-Paid Legal: If you were smart, you'd stay in just for the Tax benefits. 'Think' You can write off your Rent - Car payment - cell phone - Vacations are now business trips if you talk about your Pre-Paid Legal Business etc. To the PPL drop outs.... Do some people FAIL to make it in the NFL? Does the NFL still work:) Do some people FAIL to make Major league Baseball? Does Baseball still work:)Do some people Fail to make the NBA... You get the point. Because you FAILED doesn't mean a great Business thats mission is to help people doesn't work. Good News: You're going to be working your B^%$ off anyway for the next 10 years.....why not build your dreams instead of someone elses. Good Luck at the old Job:)
Submitted: 12/6/2004 10:44:51 AM
Modified: 12/6/2004 7:45:27 PMMichael
West Haven, ConnecticutU.S.A.
Another Over Looked Fact
I commented earlier on this topic, but I failed to comment on the 'cancellations' issue. Every single detractor makes it sound as if members are voluntarily cancelling their memberships. Let me assure each and every one of you that this is not the case at all. Yes, some do voluntarily cancel (I've experienced this one time) and some are cancelled because they failed to pay! This has been the majority of my cancellations. What are the percentages of voluntary cancellations? I don't pretend to know. It just needed to be pointed out that 50% cancellations do not equate to the lack of need for the service. Some people just don't handle their finances very well and end up losing their memberships due to rejected payments. Enough on that because not one detractor could possibly argue with this. The only question is what percent are voluntary, and we don't have that data.
Many people know about PPL's family plan, and some know about its employee benefit plan. Being that I have a home-based business, I also include the business plan with my membership. For just over $40 per month for my specific plan, I have all the same benefits as the family plan and then awesome benefits for business, especially the unlimited business consultations which have been incredibly useful to me in my business with GoSmallBiz.com. Try hiring a business consultant and attorney for only $40 and change per month. You can't do it!
To finalize my comments, I don't even really work my PPL business. I don't make much money from it. But that's not the company's fault, that's my own free choice. I think PPL offers a great service and a good opportunity. I will openly say that the chargebacks are a negative, but because you do have the option to be paid monthly and completely avoid chargebacks instead of receiving a yearly advance, I can't really complain about that. The choice was mine. I keep my associate status with the company because I do run into people who need the service, and I get paid for selling the membership to them. You never, ever, ever get paid for recruiting new Associates (that would be illegal folks). You also have the option not to buy a membership but you can market the services only if you'd like. Doesn't make much sense as to why you would, but the option is there.
I hope this clarifies that not all cancellations are voluntary and other PPL reps who are more active than myself can most definitely support this claim. I'll say it again... use the service as it was meant to be used and you'll see that maybe you're the one ripping off the attorneys. From a business opportunity standpoint, PPL will give you what you put into it. It's a matter of choice and as a previous poster stated, you have to be passionate about anything you do or you're ultimately doomed from the start. Oh yea... I think it's funny that the attorney who posted here couldn't provide the correct definition of an illegal pyramid scheme. And Enron... come on. Has Walmart ever been sued? Has Walmart ever lost a case? Hmmmm... but a lot of you still shop there, right? If you don't like PPL, it's okay but quit trying to smear the company's name. They have withstood the test of time. I don't hear anybody saying that Walmart's a scam. Good luck to all and to each their own. You have a choice and neither is wrong.
What you are suggesting is illegal
Jay, what you are suggesting is illegal, and if anybody told you that it was a good idea to write off everything imaginable, then you have been given some VERY bad advice.
Do you really want to end up with a federal felony conviction because you decided your Thansgiving trip was deductible (since you'd be talking to relatives about PPL)? That's exactly what could happen. The IRS has taken a strong stance on just this activity. Deductions are only valid if they are substantially connected with your business. If you take a trip to Vegas for a conference, some expenses are deductible. If you take a trip to Vegas for leisure, and happen to tell some people about PPL, probably none of your expenses would be legally deductible.
The statement 'Vacations are now business trips if you talk about your Pre-Paid Legal Business' is just plain wrong. Vacations are never business trips in the eyes of the federal government. Business trips can have a vacation feel, but they still must be made predominately for the benefit of the business if they are to be legally deductible expenses.
And if you think that you'll never get caught for taking these phony deductions, think again.
Several Amway/Quixtar reps have gotten smacked with serious convictions for just this activity. Think about it. If you are the guy in the basement of the IRS building going over returns, and you see that somebody claimed more in deductions from a business than that business ever earned, are you just going to let that return slide by? No way. It's not hard to get caught, and when you do, you are in big trouble.
If you make ridiculous deductions for eveything that you can somehow tie to your business, you'd better hope that your return isn't red-flagged. If it is, you're done for.
This is one of the 'big myths' of pyramid schemes: that you can deduct pretty much every expense on your taxes so, even if you don't succeed, you get the tax benefits. An awful lot of people have gotten themselves into deep trouble by believing this. The sad part about it is that those deductions usually don't lower your tax liability that much in the first place.
It's not worth the risk.
You work = you get paid!
I find it amusing that some people have bad mouthed PPL.
Prepaid is the best business I have seen in a long time. Please don't take my word for it. Check it out for yourself. We have been in Forbes magazine 5 years in a row as having the best stock.
How about our stock? Check us out. PPD and compare it to MSFT (Microsoft - small company in WA). Go to Yahoo.com, check under finances and do a MAX listing on the stock. You will discover that just for the last 10 YEARS 'PPD' is a better stock than that small outfit out of WA.
FACTS DON'T LIE! PPL bases everything on facts. If you work the business as a BUSINESS you will get paid. If you don't you won't! It's that simple.
Robert Kyosaki also recommends PPL in his book 'Rich dad poor dad'
The tax benefits are great when you own a business too.
Do what the masses do (97% of the population) and end up where the masses are, working Wal-Mart when you are 80.
Do you think Robert Kyosaki, Donald Trump, Mark Vinson Hanson, etc? These are 'normal' people? They are the 3% of the world. They do what it takes to make it work.
Do the 10 Core Commitments of PPL and get
Typical pyramid scheme drivel
Patrick, I don't have enough first hand knowledge of the sales end of PPL to form an accurate opinions of it (although, if it is a pyramid scheme, then I would presume it to be a bad deal). However, I would like to challenge the general validity of your above statements.
1) The issue of stock price and ratings by financial authorities:
These say nothing about the career potential! This is a common ploy of pyramid scheme defenders: when somebody attacks the viability of your marketing scheme, you defend by showing the success of the company as a whole.
Since pyramid scheme defenders are so quick to make allusions to Wal-Mart, let me ask you this: Wal-Mart is one of the wealthiest and most successful organizations in the world, does that mean that a gig at Wal-Mart is a great career? Certainly not, according to your very own words!
For that matter, consider virtually any of the largest, service oriented companies (McDonalds, Sears, whatever), are entry-level positions in any of those companies a 'good job?'
2) Robert Kiyosaki:
Robert Kiyosaki is a joke and so is his horrible book. I have read his materials and listened to his CDS. He gives absolutely NO valuable information on how to become successful. He is nothing more than a motivational speaker. He is not a reputable authority on ANYTHING by any stretch of the imagination.
How about this for ya: Robert Kiyosaki reccommends several other pyramid schems, which, surprisingly, are the same pyramid shemes that push his worthless product off on their members! For example, Mr. Kiyosaki apparently thinks Quixtar is a great business opportunity even though, according to Quixtar's own literature, the average agent only makes $110 per month! What kind of real business man with half a brain would endorse a concept with a 98% failure rate and such a lousy rate of return? Well, Mr. Kiyosaki does, and I think it has something to do with the fact that a significant portion of his motivational materials sales comes from Quixtar members.
Mr. Kiyosaki is nothing more than a paid shill for pyramid schemes. Promise to push his junk off on your recruits, and he'll say that your scam is the best thing since sliced bread.
3) Tax benefits: See my above rebuttal entitled 'What you are suggesting is illegal.'
4) 97% of us end up working at Wal-Mart?
The reality, my friend, is that the average American makes an annual income of over $40,000. The average member of a pyramid scheme, on the other hand, invests more in his 'business' than he will ever make in profits.
5) Name dropping:
Sure, these people are wealthy. But let me tell you a few ways that they did NOT make their money: replication of a business model with a low success rate; believeing what people with a stake in their belief told them without question; thinking that just because someone tells you something is good that it actually is good; following the advice of motivational speakers; blinding their eyes to mounting evidence that they may be wasting their time and money on a current endeavor.
These people (even Mr. Kiyosaki) made their millions through sound (if not sometimes radical) business planning, prudent (even when risky) investment, and most of all: doing it in a unique way that placed them on the cutting edge of a changing market. Pyramid scheme members are doing none of these things. Motivational materials tell you that if you want to be rich like Bill Gates then you have to think and act like Bill gates. Then they tell you to have blind faith and keep plugging away at an endeavor that isn't paying off. Let me tell you, that's not what Bill gates did.
What the chances of success are in PPL, I don't know. But the mere fact that you spouted the above drivel is very telling of what kind of organization this is. Organizations that offer a real chance of success don't need to deceive people into believing that they will never find success elsewhere, or that the rest of the world will one day end up working at Wal-Mart. They don't need to keep reminding you that you are on the road to success, because you know that you are.
Third Party Credibility
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pre-Paid Legal DOES NOT want each and every person breathing on this planet, living in the US and Canada to be Associates...!!! Like anything else, becoming successful in this company requires HARD WORK and PATIENCE which eliminates most people. I've been in the business for 3 years. I was not open to network marketing when I first heard about it and like most people I didn't even know what a pyramid scheme was. It was my only defense when someone approached me with an opportunity. I think it's kind of like saying 'you're going to hear from my lawyer' when in fact you really don't have one and aren't telling the truth. I would say to all of the naysayers and other people who don't like network marketing to save all of that passion and tenacity for your job, instead of wasting it on a forum such as this. Nothing wrong with having a job, those of us in network marketing simply choose not to have one.
Robert Kiyosaki - Let's talk about this gentleman. Let's see what HE says about network marketing - 'If I had to do it all over again, rather than build an old style type of business, I would have started building a network marketing business.' This man was NOT open to this industry either. Having read his books, Rich Dad Poor Dad, CashFlow Quadrant and The Business School -MORE THAN ONCE, I've found TONS of valuable information EACH TIME I've read them. Mr. Kiyosaki started a company that bought the first nylon Velcro 'surfer wallets' to market. He also founded an international education company that taught business and investing to tens of thousands of students throughout the world. In 1994, Mr. Kiyosaki sold his business and retired at the age of 47. He is a multi-millionaire investor, business owner, educator and speaker. HE IS FAR FROM A JOKE...AND HE ALSO WROTE A BOOK ABOUT HIS FINDINGS ON NETWORK MARKETING. Here's what he says about writing that book - 'Because I did not gain my fortune from building a network marketing business, I can be a bit more objective about the industry. This book describes what I see are the real values of a network marketing business - values that go beyond just the potential of making a lot of money. I finally found a business with a heart.'
Geez, ya mean it's not all about making money? The name of the book is The Business School For People Who Like Helping People.
Tax Benefits - There are 30 common business expenses for your network marketing business, Entertainment and Meals are 50% each. Remember everything is cheaper if you get a deduction. If a dollar doubled every year what would be its value in 20 years? In 20 years the value of your dollar would be $1 million plus!!If the same dollar doubled every year...but was subject to a 28$ tax bracket, what would be its value in 20 years? In 20 years the value of your dollar would be $1 million plus LOST TO TAXES!! If you are not taking advantage of a network marketing opportunity, you are missing out on one of the biggest tax breaks that Congress offers! As long as you are conducting your business in a business like manner...Congress will help you build your business. How? Through tax savings!! SCHEDULE 'C' Expenses!!
Average salaries - The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports the average annual wages in the U.S. as $36,764 for 2002. More recently, the White House reports that the average hourly earnings of nonsupervisory workers was $15.54 in March 2004. The White House also gets its information from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which states that in that same month, the average wage for workers in the private sector was around $520 a week. Pyramid schemes are illegal and not traded on the NYSE nor will the leading risk management company in the world, Kroll Worldwide partner with companies of that ilk.
On Nov. 3, 2004, Pre-Paid Legal announced favorable developments in two lawsuits filed against the Company and certain of its executive officers. The Company CHOSE to defend themselves instead of paying off the parties. THAT IS THE TYPE OF ORGANIZATION WE ARE...!! On Nov. 29, 2004, Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc. announced that the National Chamber Litigation Center, the public policy legal arm of the United States Chamber of Commerce, and the National Black Chamber of Commerce have joined Pre-Paid in action against frivolous lawsuits. AGAIN THAT IS THE TYPE OF ORGANIZATION WE ARE...!!
See this is ALL third-party information can be found right here on the Internet. Being traded on the NYSE means anyone and everyone can do their own due diligence and in fact we invite everyone to do so...!!
In closing - Mr. Kiyosaki says it best, 'Network marketing gives millions of people throughout the world the opportunity to take control of their lives and their financial future.'
'The richest people in the world build networks. Everyone else is trained to look for work.'
Fact do NOT lie!
You can argue until you are blue in the face about why Network Marketing Companies do not work. You can say they are a pyramid scheme. You can through things out, but without concrete facts they are meaningless.
The former NYSE president recommended Prepaid Legal as a great company.
Harland Stonecipher (President & Founder of PPL) in 2003 was included into the United States Chamber of Commerce.
We are an open book because we are on the NYSE. How do you get on the NYSE? You must be invited.
You think that the NYSE would invite a Pyramid Scheme over?
As far as our stock we are beating Microsoft just for the last 10 YEARS.
We have been written up in Forbes, Success, Fortune, Black Enterprise, Wall Street Journal as a good company.
USA today said that we look like health care before it became a trillion dollar industry.
The United States Postal Service uses are service.
The average Assocate makes $110 a month? Who says?
I am only a senior associate and I started in August 2004 and have already made well over $1500 and I have done very very little work.
You work - You get paid.
My Executive Director made $250K last year. He has been doing PPL for 7 years though.
Don't just blow out things that you know nothing about. Before you go and bash PPL look it up. Investigate it.
We even offer ID theft protection now. But not just protection, but restoration. What other company does that for $12.95 a month?
And the best thing about PPL is the training. Geez this company has the best training I have ever seen in any MLM. You are trained by the best so you can be the best and live your life the way you want to!
Again with the irrelevant endorsements
Let me reiterate, Patrick. The credence that the business as a whole receives DOES NOT say anything about the business opportunity. If your stock is doing well, that's great. It doesn't mean that working for PPL is a good idea. Furthermore, I'm not even saying that PPL is not a good idea, just relaying an analogy: pyramid schemes are presumptively bad career moves + PPL bears the hallmarks of a pyramid scheme = there is a better than not chance that PPL is a bad career move.
As for the product: I actually think PPL is a quality product, so long as the providers deliver quality work. I am educated in law and business, and recognize the benefits of a PPL plan. In fact, if you will scroll up and read my rebuttal dated 12-4-2003, you will see that I have come to the defense of the PPL product in the past.
However, as is the case with the viability of the company to third party financial authorities, the quality of the product speaks to its viability as a selling product, but says nothing about the viability of a slot in the distribution scheme.
As for the comment about the $110/month: read my rebuttal closer. This statement was in regards to Quixtar, not PPL, and was given as an example of the lack of return in pyramid schemes, network marketing, direct marketing, matrix marketing, whatever you wish to call it. And if you want to know who says, well, my friend, Quixtar says! The FTC requires them to disclose potential income to recruits, and the figure they themselves give is $110 per month.
If you want to rebut my presumption that PPL is a bad career move, then you need to rebut the presumption that PPL is a pyramid scheme. This is NOT done by telling me that PPL is endorsed as a good investment, or that people who are known guns-for-hire tout its viability, or by saying that you have a product and are therefore not a pyramid scheme (a common, yet misguided statement), or by giving unverifiable anecdotal evidence of incomes. The presumption CAN be rebutted by showing that the recruitment process is selective, that there is no commission sharing, or via verifiable evidence that a reasonable proportion of agents actually make a decent income.
You are trying to defend a career option as viable. In doing so you have used the same tactics employed routinely by pyramid scheme promoters, and quoted authorities widely known for avidly endorsing bad ideas. You have made your company appear to be a pyramid scheme, and as such have made it look extremely unviable as a career option. If you wish to continue your defense, the burden is on you to show BY CONCRETE AND RELEVANT EVIDENCE that this is not a pyramid scheme, or, failing that, that it is a profitable venture nonetheless.
If you can do that, then you will have effectively defended the career potential of a PPL sales gig, and I will willingly concede. I have not yet made up my mind; my opinion on PPL (per the sales end) is still up for grabs. If you cannot rebut the presumption that PPL is a pyramid scheme and therefore a scam, then stop trying and take a moment for some self-perspective.
Submitted: 12/10/2004 11:35:14 AM
Modified: 12/10/2004 9:00:16 PMAlcina
Crestline, CaliforniaU.S.A.
Tim... Nicely written response..
Hi Tim,
As I read your post, I came to understand you are a very well educated man.
I thought.. How could I answer those questions you raised?
There are quite a few articles in regards to Pre Paid Legal that have been written in the last few years, lot's of info I could add on, to more clearly define the credibility of the company, but that's not what you asked.
You stated you understand the value of a membership...Do you have one yet? I think if you're willing to invest the time it takes to write such an expansive response...you should give it a try and although it's not my intention to sell you a membership, you can get it from anyone you know who is an associate, I can provide you with what you need to obtain a membership if you don't know of anyone to contact. But again my purpose of this response is to try and assist you in finding answers to your questions and not to market you a membership.
I'm not sure how to answer 'proof' that this is not a pyramid scheme, but I do have some thoughts that may negate that theory. I know the person who marketed the membership to San Bernardino County as an employee benefit, all the county employees, including their 400 bed Level I truama center which I used to work at... I'm not sure if that's proof. The County saw the value in having this available to their employees, but I'm not sure what kind of investigation they did to be sure this was not a pyramid scheme. I'm not making any attempt to be fasitious (I'm pretty sure I don't know how to spell that). I'm just working it through for myself as I write this. I'd really like to give you something tanglible as solid proof, but other than my answers to 'William's Test'...I'm not sure how to prove it to you.
I know the membership has value...I'll never be without it ever. If there wasn't a business opportunity I'd still keep my membership. I'm an injured nurse and when the door closed to my career, this business opportunity got me back on my feet financially and emotionally, I'm a lady emotion is all important to me. My hubby is more into the 'guy' concrete facts division...LOL. Actually I'm going to have him read this over and see if he can answer that for you.
I really appreciate that you took the time to write your last post. All I really know as proof is how I feel about it, and what Pre Paid Legal has done for me and my family.
I remember my sister being involved in true 'pyramid schemes' in the early 80's where the ONLY thing that changed hands was money...Her and her friend's have always liked gambling, that's my idea of a 'pyramid scheme' because it was. I can't even begin to put Pre Paid Legal Services in that category.
At this time 15 states require an Insurance license to market it. I would have to say if the Network Marketing side ended and I would have to be a licensed Insurance agent to provide this service...I would do it without a second thought.
Everybody I know or come in contact with needs this, some folks just don't know that yet. I've saved so much money just by being able to access an attorney when someone was trying to rip me off...well It's paid for itself YEARS down the road. I treat my PPL business as just that a business. I advertise, hand out business cards show people how I can help them with things they didn't even know they could get fixed. I make sure they have a Will. In my line of work I've seen more folks die than I could ever possibly count... You don't know when it's coming and to die without a Will and minor children..you leave such a mess behind. Some people try to just not 'worry' about that, but I want to decide where my kids go not let state probate do it for me.
Sorry soapbox... I'm an advocate. I believe strongly in the company and the product.
I guess for myself, I've never had anybody associated with the company tell me lies about the company, the product or owning the business...it's all good. I'm getting alot more than I expected with my membership and my business.
If there's anyway you could think of that could be concrete proof for you... I'll try to find what I can for you.
You have a great day sir
Submitted: 12/10/2004 7:56:05 PM
Modified: 12/10/2004 11:44:53 PMPatrick
Anaheim, CaliforniaU.S.A.
Is PPL a Pyramid Scheme?
Prepaid Legal is not a Pyramid Scheme!
(A Pyramid Scheme invokes that something is illegal with the company. The company has 2600 top rated law firms nationwide and in Canada. If it was an illegal company no lawyer would ever represent us)
Most everyone can find something on the Internet. Just click your mouse to Google or Yahoo and start a search.
How about do some investigating on your own. How about go to www.ask.com and ask Jeeves if Prepaid Legal is a Pyramid Scheme? You won't find anything to validate your claim. You'd think you would find something, after all we have been in business for 32 years.
I would think if PPL was a Pyramid Scheme they wouldn't have been written up in hundreds of publications, accepted by the NYSE, the owner I know wouldn't have been accepted to the United States Chamber of Commerce.
I would recommend anyone who believes that PPL is a scam to do their OWN investigation. Find a local rep in your area and go to a free business briefing. They do NOT sell you. They show you the facts and all these facts can be validated.
I am sure there are many scams out there and I am sure there have been a lot of MLM scams, but do these companies get invited to be listed on the NYSE? Does the owner get accepted to the United States Chamber of commerce? No. They get arrested and their business is closed.
Here is the REAL Pyramid Scheme. It's unfortunate that most people are not aware of it. So sad. :(
President / Owner
Vice President
General Managers
Assitant Managers
Workers.
Who is on top? The President. How many is there of him? 1. How about the workers? How many are there of them? Hundreds? Thousands? Who gets paid more the President of the company of the Workers? Hmmm.. Maybe the President. Who will in X amount of years get a tap on their shoulder and say 'It's your time to retire'?
Prepaid Legal you start the same place the million dollar earner started. You work, you show how people can get access to Legal Protection (under the Law) and if they buy a membership, you get paid. You sell 5 memberships you advance in the company.
You earn commissions, residual income and spill-over income.
Just please if you think it's a scam. Instead of just theorizing and making up stories, investigate it on your own and you will discover the truth as I did. I will see you at the top!
I did my own due diligence and investigated this company for sometime and it was proven to me that this was a real business.
Tim,
I am not required to PROVE anything to you. I already know it works - I am working it.
If you want your 'CONCRETE AND RELEVANT EVIDENCE that this is not a pyramid scheme'. You do the investigation.
I did my own due diligence and investigated this company for sometime and it was proven to me that this was a real business.
'You are trying to defend a career option as viable. In doing so you have used the same tactics employed routinely by pyramid scheme promoters, and quoted authorities widely known for avidly endorsing bad ideas.'
I am doing no such thing. I am actually just sharing to anyone who wants to read what I am saying that PPL is a good business. I am not just saying to join on my word. I am suggesting that if someone is interested to do their own investigation on PPL and see if it's something they would like to do. It's not for everyone.
We have MADE more millionaries than ANY other MLM company.
There are I am sure thousands who are not making that type of money, but I am sure they are not putting fourth the time either. It's actually easy work, there is just a lot of it.
The best part about PPL is that you are in business for yourself, just not by yourself.
This company will HELP you out so much. Oh my so much training.
If anyone is thinking of doing something more w/ their life - find someone in your local area and check out PPL.
I can tell you that Lawyers have quit their firms to join PPL, Pastors from churches have joined, Corp Busn men making 6 figure incomes have quit their jobs to work PPL, Owners of stores have quit to join PPL.
It's a great business choice for anyone who wants to work hard and get paid for the EFFORTS no matter their education, skills, talents or appearance.
But it's not for everyone. You must make up your own decision to join or not.
More Dirt On The Subject ..motion to dismiss a class action lawsuit, and denied Pre-Paid's motion to strike the class allegations. Plaintiffs allege that the Pre-Paid marketing program is an illegal pyramid scheme
Pre-Paid Legal Services
Alleged Pyramid Scheme Lawsuit
Introduction
Since 1978, Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc., has developed and marketed 'legal service plans' as 'memberships,' which it represents to consumers to be the legal equivalent of membership in a health maintenance organization.
On March 1, 2002, with co-counsel, Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein, LLP filed a class action in the United States District Court for the Western District of Oklahoma on behalf of all purchasers who at any time (the 'Class Period') purchased an 'Opportunity' from Pre-Paid Legal Services to sell for 'legal insurance plans' from Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc. (the 'Class').
Plaintiffs are all current or former plan members and sales associates of Pre-Paid Legal Services. The defendants named in the complaint are Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc., Harland C. Stonecipher, the Chairman and CEO of Pre-Paid Legal Services, and William Smith, the President of Pre-Paid Legal Services.
Plaintiffs' Allegations
Described by Pre-Paid Legal Services as 'multi-level marketing,' defendants sell both memberships in the legal plans and recruit sales associates to market these memberships. Defendants call the chance to sell memberships to other participants the 'Opportunity.'
Plaintiffs allege that the purchase of an 'Opportunity' is an investment contract security, and that this security is fraudulently marketed to the purchasers. Plaintiffs allege that defendants marketed the opportunity through a uniform scripted oral presentation in which sales agents (who were not registered as broker-dealers under applicable federal or Oklahoma law) represented to potential purchasers that they would earn more money and make more sales than they actually could or did. Specifically, defendants represented that the sale of a membership was an easy sale to a desirous audience and that consumers maintained their memberships in greater numbers than they actually did.
Plaintiffs further allege that Pre-Paid Legal Services operates an unlawful pyramid sales scheme. The marketing scheme allegedly depends upon commissions paid for sales of plans and upon the recruitment of other sales associates. For every sale of a plan, the associates are paid an advance commission, a percentage of which goes to those who recruited them. Bonuses are paid based upon recruitment of associates. Plaintiffs allege that defendants generate millions of dollars each year from marketing the 'Opportunity,' together with the sale of marketing materials, worthless lead lists, and valueless training programs sold as part of the Opportunity.
Legal Claims and Damages Sought
The complaint charges Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc. and certain of its officers with violations of the Securities Act of 1933, the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, certain Oklahoma statutes, and various common-law claims. Plaintiffs seek to recover damages on behalf of the Class and to obtain other equitable and injunctive relief. To read a copy of the complaint (in Adobe Acrobat/read only format), click here.
Case Status
The class action lawsuit, entitled Sandler v. Pre-Paid Legal Services, which charges the company with illegal business practices, remains active before the trial court.
On July 23, 2003, U.S. District Court Judge Robin J. Cauthron denied in part and granted in part Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc.'s motion to dismiss a class action lawsuit, and denied Pre-Paid's motion to strike the class allegations. Plaintiffs allege that the Pre-Paid marketing program is an illegal pyramid scheme, participation in which qualifies as an investment contract for purposes of federal securities laws. Plaintiffs allege that participants, called 'associates', are deceived into buying an 'opportunity' to sell Pre-Paid's legal plans and recruit others to do the same.The Court found that Plaintiffs properly alleged that the 'opportunity' is a security:
'Although the inherently fraudulent nature of any pyramid scheme is based on its fundamental instability, growth in and of itself, even over an extended period of time, does not necessarily defeat plaintiffs' allegations that Pre-Paid is a pyramid scheme. The relevant inquiry is not how long an enterprise has sustained itself but whether the market would become saturated if associates were to actually achieve the financial gains promised.'
Judge Cauthron further held that the 'determination of whether the marketing program is a legitimate, product-based structure or a pyramid scheme will likely turn more on the practices and experiences of associates rather than on corporate documents ... [t]hus, the Court finds that plaintiffs' allegations that Pre-Paid is a pyramid scheme are not facially defective or clearly refuted by defendants' arguments or evidence.'
The Court also noted that 'for purposes of this motion, it is enough that Plaintiffs' allegations suggest that their expectations of profits depended heavily on the efforts of others.'
Lieff Cabraser is leading national law firm founded in 1972. We represent plaintiffs in class actions lawsuits filed in federal and state courts across the United States. We have extensive experience in cases involving claims for consumer fraud and deceptive business practices. If you would like further information on this lawsuit, please contact us.
LIEFF CABRASER HEIMANN & BERNSTEIN, LLP
OK, I hope everyone enjoyed reading that. Please stay tuned in for the next installment of 'As my stomach turns'.
Tim from Indiana, just want to thank you for bringing up some obvious questions. I too, think that it is a viable product, but the marketing plan leaves a lot to be desired.
I'd like to remind all the PPL'ers that Amway/Quixtar, and Herbalife, are both on the NYSE, and both have teams of lawyers fighting lawsuits brought against them on a continual basis. Do you think those attorneys care if it is an ethical buisness or not? I think not!
So are all lawyers bad? No, but conversely, neither are they all good. Think about it.
Peace, in the Middle East! I'm out.
...And In CURRENT Events....!!
Let's take a look at CURRENT events regarding those same court cases that naysayers love to point to, yet when the results of these court cases came out...there was nothing but silence..!!
November 3, 2004 12:21PM - PR Newswire
On June 29, 2001, an action was filed against Pre-Paid in the District Court of Canadian County, Oklahoma. The action was originally a putative class action brought by former and current sales associates. The amended petition, filed in 2002, seeks injunctive and declaratory relief, with other damages, for alleged violations of the Oklahoma Uniform Consumer Credit Code in connection with Pre-Paid's commission advances, and seeks injunctive and declaratory relief regarding the enforcement of certain contract provisions with sales associates, including a request for the imposition of a constructive trust as to earned commissions applied to the reduction of debit balances and disgorgement of all earned renewal commissions applied to the reduction of debit balances. On September 23, 2003 the trial court entered an order dismissing the class action allegations upon the motion of the plaintiffs. On December 4, 2003, Pre-Paid filed a motion for summary judgment. On November 2, 2004, the trial court issued a Memorandum Order finding Pre-Paid's motion for summary judgment to be meritorious and granting judgment in favor of Pre-Paid on all claims.
'Subject to plaintiffs' right to pursue an appeal, this order ends this lawsuit,' stated Pre-Paid Chairman and CEO Harland C. Stonecipher.
Additionally, the United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit issued a ruling on October 26, 2004 denying an Interlocutory Appeal filed by putative class action plaintiffs, thereby affirming the trial court's earlier ruling denying class certification. On March 1, 2002, an action was filed in the United States District Court for the Western District of Oklahoma by five individuals against the Company and certain executive officers. This action is a putative class action seeking unspecified damages purportedly filed on behalf of sales associates of the Company and alleges that the marketing plan offered by the Company constitutes a security under the Securities Act of 1933 and seeks remedies for failure to register the marketing plan as a security and for violations of the anti-fraud provisions of the Securities Act of 1933 in connection with representations alleged to have been made in connection with the marketing plan. The complaint also alleges violations of the Oklahoma Securities Act, the Oklahoma Business Opportunities Sales Act, unjust enrichment and violation of the Oklahoma Consumer Protection Act. On September 8, 2004, the trial court issued its ruling denying class certification on multiple grounds. 'Although the case may still proceed in the trial court on the individual plaintiffs' claims, the appellate court's denial of the interlocutory appeal indicates the class action case is closed,' stated CEO Stonecipher.
'Pre-Paid is certainly pleased with these recent developments,' stated Pre-Paid Chairman and CEO Harland C. Stonecipher. 'These rulings, along with other recent favorable litigation developments in Mississippi, continue to set the tone for Pre-Paid in litigation matters and will continue to push Pre-Paid forward.'
On November 29, 2004
Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc. (NYSE: PPD) announces that the National Chamber Litigation Center, the public policy legal arm of the United States Chamber of Commerce, and the National Black Chamber of Commerce have joined Pre-Paid in seeking attorney's fees and expenses from plaintiffs' counsel following an earlier court victory in Mississippi.
On November 12, 2004, in the Circuit Court of Wilkinson County, Mississippi, Pre-Paid filed a Motion for Attorney's Fees and Expenses pursuant to the Mississippi Litigation Accountability Act of 1988 and Rule 11 of the Mississippi Rules of Civil Procedure. Pre-Paid argues that no effort was made by plaintiffs' counsel to determine the validity of their clients' action, claim or defense before the lawsuit was asserted against Pre-Paid. In the brief filed with the court, Pre-Paid asserts that plaintiffs' counsel did not provide responses to discovery requests for more than two years after filing suit; that the responses actually provided were unverified and/or inaccurate and contrary to the plaintiffs' own testimony; that the majority of plaintiffs were either dismissed or moved to other cases prior to trial; and when the remaining two plaintiffs went to trial, the jury found that none of the claims had been proven and awarded no damages.
The National Chamber Litigation Center filed a request to file an Amicus Curiae brief in support of Pre-Paid's motion. According to the Chamber's brief, in the earlier lawsuit filed against Pre-Paid plaintiffs', counsel utterly failed to make any reasonable inquiry about the basic facts before filing the Complaint. The U.S. Chamber is the world's largest business federation representing more than three million businesses and organizations of every size, sector and region.
The National Black Chamber of Commerce (NBCC) is a nonprofit, nonpartisan, nonsectarian organization dedicated to the economic empowerment of African American communities. The NBCC has 190 affiliated chapters throughout the United States and represents 95,000 African American owned businesses. In a motion filed last week in the Circuit Court of Wilkinson County seeking leave to file an Amicus Curiae brief, the NBCC states frivolous lawsuits have a direct impact on the continued availability of affordable legal services in the African American community and 'thereby affect substantial, legitimate, independent interests of the NBCC.'
'We are pleased to see the support of the U.S. Chamber and the National Black Chamber of Commerce on this critical issue for Pre-Paid, businesses and the African American community,' stated Pre-Paid Chairman and CEO Harland C. Stonecipher. 'We believe it is time that plaintiffs' attorneys be held accountable for the damaging financial and business impact that frivolous lawsuits can have on a business, and a community.'
Y'know maybe it's just me but I REALLY think these organizations, state courts and regulatory agencies....may know just a little bit more than the genuises on this message board...and guess what they didn't have to go and ask them what they thought...!!
That press release is largely irrelevant
From what I have read, all that was dismissed in Oklahoma was “class action status." Put simply, denial of class status says only that the claims brought might not be shared by all the members.
The statement that denial of class status is evidence that the plaintiffs' claims were flawed is, in a way, self defeating. More likely, the denial is evidence that certain members of the class suffered different or additional harms, certainly not that they suffered no harms in the first place.
Next, as to the claims raised, I'll have to say that when I read the first posting I couldn't believe that the plaintiffs were able to defeat a motion to dismiss. In order to show that the PPL opportunity violated securities laws, the plaintiffs would have to show that it actually was a security.
The quick and easy definition of an investment contract security is this: money paid to an organization (or individual) for the purpose of raising that organization's capital, in the hopes that profits will be realized, PRIMARILY VIA THE WORK OF OTHERS, by the increased profitability of the organization.
I emphasized the “primarily via the work of others" because this is where the plaintiffs' case, I believe, was a failure from the start. I can see why someone may have thought this was a plausible claim at first: the recruit buys into the organization so that he may recruit others and thus profit from the work of others. The big problem, however, is that the associate must actually do the recruiting, and therefore is profiting from the result of his own work.
Consider this example: if I buy a quarter-acre of an orange grove from someone who owns the whole farm, and the farm owner will continue to harvest the oranges and give me a share of the profits, I have probably purchased an investment security. On the other hand, if I buy this land and supply my own laborers, I will be profiting from the work of others, but those “others" are my own employees (or independent contractors, or downlines if my orange grove is a pyramid scheme) and thus I am actually profiting from my own management and business acumen. This purchase, therefore, is not a security.
The conclusion of that long-winded analysis: the claim that PPL recruiting violates securities laws is ridiculous because the PPL associateship is not a security in the first place.
The point of all that: most likely no decision was ever made as to whether the opportunity was actually misrepresented because the plaintiffs could not make it past the threshold question that would make misrepresentation relevant. So, to say that dismissal of this claim is evidence that the opportunity is NOT misrepresented is to rely on an answer to a question not yet asked.
Allegations that a business enterprise is an illegal pyramid scheme are notoriously difficult to prove (and yes, there are “legal“ pyramid schemes). The FTC has promulgated the guideline for when a pyramid scheme is illegal. To the best of my knowledge, the FTC regulation classifies a business as an illegal pyramid scheme when more that 30% of agent incomes come from commission sharing. In other words, if you are making $3000 per month in commissions earned from downlines, you better be making $7000 per month from your own sales, otherwise you are an illegal pyramid scheme. While many (if not most) pyramid schemes fit this definition, successful claims are few and far between. This is because the classification of pyramid scheme agents as independent contractors has such a huge effect on necessary record-keeping and liability placement that it is virtually impossible to produce enough evidence to support a claim that the organization, as a whole, is a pyramid scheme.
The conclusions of this long-winded rebuttal: 1) Class action, merely a procedural issue, says nothing about the merits of the claim; 2) Securities violation, failed argument from the start, so the misrepresentation question was not even reached, and the dismissal of the securities claim says nothing either way about misrepresentation; 3) Pyramid scheme allegation, virtually impossible to prove in the first place, and the failure to prove it does not prove the inaccuracy of the allegation.
Does the filing of a lawsuit indicate that these associates were done wrong? In my (and their) mind, probably. Does the dismissal of the claims mean that they weren't done wrong? Not by a long shot. It only means that they were unable to meet the demands of the legal system. And, as I have said before, legal and ethical do not always equate. Many things that are highly unethical are perfectly legal, and many things that are perfectly legal are highly unethical.
The vast majority of claims brought alleging fraud at the hands of a pyramid scheme will either fail for procedural issues or because the burden of production (producing enough evidence to support your claim) is simply impossible to meet. Fortunately, there are enough cases currently pending against PPL that one of them should be able to reach a decision on the merits. A discussion of these cases is futile until that point, because decisions other than on the merits of a claim are opinions of law, not fact.
Submitted: 12/15/2004 10:25:29 AM
Modified: 12/15/2004 5:50:25 PM
Lajon
Fairfield, CaliforniaU.S.A.
RE: That press release is largely irrelevant
Let's define just what is direct selling and a pyramid scheme:
Direct selling is defined as the sale of a consumer product or service, person-to-person, away from a fixed retail location.
Pyramid schemes are illegal scams in which large numbers of people at the bottom of the pyramid pay money to a few people at the top. Each new participant pays for the chance to advance to the top and profit from payments of others who might join later. For example, to join, you might have to pay anywhere from a small investment to thousands of dollars. In this example, $1,000 buys a position in one of the boxes on the bottom level. $500 of your money goes to the person in the box directly above you, and the other $500 goes to the person at the top of the pyramid, the promoter. If all the boxes on the chart fill up with participants, the promoter will collect $16,000, and you and the others on the bottom level will each be $1,000 poorer. When the promoter has been paid off, his box is removed and the second level becomes the top or payoff level. Only then do the two people on the second level begin to profit. To pay off these two, 32 empty boxes are added at the bottom, and the search for new participants continues.
Each time a level rises to the top, a new level must be added to the bottom, each one twice as large as the one before. If enough new participants join, you and the other 15 players in your level may make it to the top. However, in order for you to collect your payoffs, 512 people would have to be recruited, half of them losing $1,000 each.
Of course, the pyramid may collapse long before you reach the top. In order for everyone in a pyramid scheme to profit, there would have to be a never-ending supply of new participants.
In reality, however, the supply of participants is limited, and each new level of participants has less chance of recruiting others and a greater chance of losing money.
I sure hope that helps!!
Now, there is someone who IS looking at the industry as a whole. His name is Rod Cook and here is his WEBSITE - www.mlmwatchdog.com I wonder what he thinks about those court cases:
22 Nov 2004 – A Class Action Suit in Wilkinson County, Mississippi against Pre-Paid Legal was in fact a suit against any company in the MLM Industry. The ambulance chasing trial lawyers, behind the class action suit, had their Fannies soundly whipped (and kicked) by a common sense jury. The Wilkinson County jury returned a unanimous verdict in favor of Pre-Paid on all claims, including fraud, civil conspiracy and violations of Mississippi unfair practices statutes. This action along with another class action suit (Against Pre-Paid Legal) was thrown out of Federal Court in Oklahoma. This more or less means that the MLM Industry is bullet proofed against ambulance chasing class action trial lawyers. The Basic premise by ambulance chasing trial lawyers, in both cases was (Watchdog Editorial):
CLASS ACTION LAWYERS BASICALLY SAID:
“MLM is evil…… all distributors that join an MLM company should
Make money even if they are lazy, unmotivated or love to watch TV.
PrePaid Legal (or any other MLM) should pay people who join
And don't make money!
See: Rod Cook - 'The Ring'
Well it is going to be a while, a long while before any of these bottom feeding, trial lawyers come back after our fine MLM industry! Read more about class action trial lawyers and their bottom feeding skuzzy tactics in the great reading book “King Of Torts" by John Grisham. You will also notice in the Grisham's book that Mississippi is a favorite hunting grounds for these ambulance chasing trial lawyers because juries (normally) give big bucks to the scum sucking class action lawyers. Ha…ha hope they enjoyed eating all the money they spent in Mississippi suing Pre-Paid. Or were they financed by stock market short sellers (see previous article)! :>)
PRE PAID LEGAL BEATS CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT! GREAT!
7 Oct 2004 -- We have been waiting for a ruling from the United States District Court in Oklahoma on whether the lawsuit against PPL could be certified as a class action. Last month the Court issued its ruling denying class certification on multiple grounds. 'Subject to plaintiffs' right to pursue an interim appeal, the ruling ends the case as a class action.' Your Editor doubts if the Ambulance Chasing Lawyers behind this will keep pouring money into the chase for an appeal. This is good for the entire Industry! THAT sounds pretty relevant to me..!!
Somehow, someone who is considered the ultimate MLM 'marketing' and consulting inside information source, who has studied over 1000 comp plans, products and recruiting systems a year, with almost 40 years of MLM experience and has a wealth of knowledge and experience no one else in the MLM Industry felt those court cases AND press releases were very relevant!!
For years Rod Cook served the Network Marketing industry as the well known co-owner, editor and the investigative arm for The MLM Insider magazine. ABC television's 20/20, featured the MLM Insider, so has Success, Newsweek, The Wall Street Journal, and many others for being the MLM Industry 'Watchdog'... tracking down illegal and immoral companies. Attorneys General, the FBI, Federal Marshalls and other regulatory agencies have used Rod for an MLM reference source when seeking truthful analysis and information.
See, I've said there are third-party credible and verifiable resources out there that know ALOT more than the genuises here or anywhere else AND they've got a website and/or have been published in national publications reaching a vast amount of people. These same individuals are a resource to Attorney Generals, the FBI, Federal Marshalls and other regulatory agencies -they are not on a message board exclusively telling people what they think is right.
Pyramid schemes DO NOT win court cases and they DO NOT announce that the National Chamber Litigation Center, the public policy legal arm of the United States Chamber of Commerce, and the National Black Chamber of Commerce have joined them in seeking attorney's fees and expenses from plaintiff's counsel following an earlier court victory in Mississippi.
Seems as though those court cases AND press releases are indeed very relevant regardless of what ANYONE thinks..!!
Submitted: 12/19/2004 12:28:09 PM
Modified: 12/19/2004 10:39:49 PMMichael
West Haven, ConnecticutU.S.A.
Has anybody noticed that this whole post about PPL started out largely negative, and now as PPL finalizes legal complaints against them in their favor, the posts have turned to a positive majority?
I absolutely believe that Mr. John Gardner was correct when he said, (I'm paraphrasing) 'We have seen the death of the naysayers.'
I got to thinking about the viability of PPL as a career choice... I will be the first to say that I'm not as educated as our friendly poster Tim (and you are very smart, so no sarcasm here from me), but given the failure rate of any business startup witin its first three to five years, wouldn't it be agreeable to say that starting any business of your own (and not just network marketing) is not exactly a viable career choice? You're taking a risk no matter what. Let's also keep in mind that franchises, which are largely perceived as a legal and legitimate business model, were once under the same scrutiny that the network marketing model is.
In terms of what the average networker makes financially (Quixtar specific of $110/month), I would inquire as to what the average income was of those that actually worked their business like a real business. Nobody has those figures. That average is based on ALL THE COMBINED PEOPLE that both did and did not work their business in the same way as a business venture that required a $10,000 investment.
There is nothing complex about the PPL business opportunity (since we pretty much all agree that the service is of value).
The Business Opportunity Pros:
* Paid daily (never have I not been paid)
* The corporation is solid and stable with 32 years of service (ie they're not going anywhere)
* Great demand for product without saturation
* Product is not another 'me too' product that everybody else has
* Minimal number of consumer sales required to recover your startup investment
* Sell product to any combination of individuals/families/businesses/employers
* Excellent company training provided on a continaul basis
* Training included with startup investment
* Comparatively speaking, very low startup cost to become an Associate
* You do not have to build a team of other associates to achieve financial success as defined by each individual
* Legal tax deductions that you don't get at a job
* Sales tools provided with initial investment
* Risidual income paid monthly beginning your second year if advanced yearly commissions (immediate if commissions paid in monthly increments instead of advanced)
* Professional retention services available for a nominal yearly fee (and I do mean nominal)
* Company and service are now international
* You cannot buy your way to the top income levels
* and more if I had the time to brainstorm them :)
The Business Opportunity Cons:
* Chargebacks due to cancellations - see my previous post about this as well... (this is the part of the compensation plan that hurts, but here is the counter... the company is 'advancing' you a years pay on that sale. If you got an advance from an employer and quit your job the next day, you can bank on the fact that your final check will have that 'advance' deducted from it in the amount of whatever is owed. Lastly on this point, you are given the option to receive payment in monthly increments to avoid chargebacks - the choice is yours).
* Not all sponsors are good sponsors (it's up to you to seek out somebody from the start that is interested in helping you achieve whatever level of success you desire - this is where I initially went wrong, so I sought out that leadership in others and found it).
* Just like any other company, there are Associates that are going to misrepresent both the product and opportunity (these are usually the desperate, say anything to bag the sale types. Do your homework first - it's smart consumer research).
* It does require work - there are no free rides here, however, if done correctly, the amount of work is potentially minimal.
As you can see, the opportunity is actually very good and the only con that the company can completely control above is the first (chargebacks). It's going to require work and you could potentially lose if you don't follow the advice of those that have already achieved success with the company.
Most importantly, and this goes for any business venture you are considering, if you don't feel absoultely - 100% passionate - about the service/product and what it can do, do not under any circumstances become an Associate or Distributor. You're doomed from the start.
I do believe PPL has most certainly seen the death of the PPL naysayers. Even though I don't work this opportunity very much, I'm glad to see this death has arrived. Good for Mr. Stonecipher and PPL. It's well deserved and earned!
it doesn't take much effort to try to dream steal. Fellow PPL associates just ignore this Dream Stealer!
Hey Tim Valparaiso Idiana. Everybody is giving you credit for being so smart. I disagree. I had a friend that was like you that said ' I could find something wrong with anything'. I said 'Wow what a gift'. Have you ever noticed that there's never been a statue of a critic:( Why? Because it doesn't take much effort to try to dream steal. Fellow PPL associates just ignore this Dream Stealer! I ask you this Tim Valparaiso on behalf of all PPL associates. What have you done in your life time that was so great......that's a better Business model than PPL? That all of us PPL associates should gravitate to since we shouldn't build our PPL dream................Do you have any better suggestions? Do you own a company that's better than PPL? If so, what is it? Where you written up in Forbes? If so do you pay more than PPL? Give us a suggestion that's a better idea than a company that produced over 50+ Millionaires in 'The Millionaires Club. Tim Valparaiso: How many Milionaires have you helped achieve that status? 0? (There's your proof!) So who should we listen to fellow PPL associates? Tim's a joke:)
Calm down Jay. Unlike other pyramid schemes you are actually marketing a good product that is a good value.
Jay, you've fallen prey to the very reasoning that troubles me so much about the defenses of PPL.
First of all, what I have done with my life is completely irrelevant, but as you are curious about my 'business model,' here it is: 1) Start out a homeless drug addict at the age of 19; 2) Get a string of crappy jobs; 3) Have a few (3) unplanned children; 4) Realize that you can't raise three kids on a waiter's income; 5) Work full time to get an education while raising three kids; 6) Graduate in four years with a dual cum laude BA; 7) Get a full tuition scholarship to the top-ranked regional law school in the Midwest; 8) Bust your way into the top 10% of your class, make Law Review; 9) Get an offer with most established law firm in Northwest Indiana.
OK, so it's a bit more complicated than your business model, and I'll probably never make it into Forbes, but chances are pretty good that I'll have a million dollars some day. Needless to say, I have a great deal of faith in my plan.
And now let me reiterate my position on PPL. Product: good, as long as the providers keep up their end of the deal; Opportunity: not quite sure, it's basically a pyramid scheme, which have enormous failure rates, but I haven't seen any raw data to suggest either way.
Calling me a 'dream stealer' puts me on notice that you have closed your mind to critical thinking. Is your doctor a 'dream stealer' when he tells you that you may have a disease? Is your accountant a 'dream stealer' when he tells you that you can't deduct all that stuff you thought you could? All I'm trying to do here is open your eyes. If the only defense you can give to my comments is to ignore them by calling me a 'dream stealer' then you need to take a long hard look at the people who told you to close your eyes.
Sure, I'll never make it into Forbes. But neither will you. Your company may, but what does that say about the viability of your commissioned position within that company? Nothing! How many times has McDonald's been in Forbes? Did they get in there because their employees are all millionaires?
If PPL has created some millionaires then I say great. The question you must ask, however, is not how many millionaires have there been, but what proportion of the sales force actually makes a viable income. I have asked that question a few times and have yet to be given anything but anecdotal responses.
Again, my mind is not made up per PPL. Unlike other pyramid schemes you are actually marketing a good product that is a good value. Also, most of the defenders have acted in a professional manner not normally found among pyramid scheme promoters (kudos to those of you). However, the fact remains that PPL is a MLM, and that MLMs have enormous failure rates, with most people actually losing money (i.e. spending more on start-up fees and motivational materials than they will ever earn).
Jay, be a 'dream defender' and show me that my preconceptions are wrong. Give me some hard, verifiable data that tells me people aren't wasting their time (or worse, money) with PPL.
I am not trying to steal your dreams. I do what I do because I hate to see people being used as unpaid marketing devices and receptacles for bogus motivational materials. Unfortunately some dreams don't come true.
Re: Unlike other pyramid schemes you are actually marketing a good product that is a good value.
Tim, first and foremost, the Pre-Paid Legal Business Opportunity is NOT a pyramid scheme. I would suggest finding out what is the difference between a pyramid scheme and a legitimate network marketing opportunity. Pre-Paid Legal is a legitimate network marketing opportunity, regardless of what ANYONE theorizes, analyzes or feels...!!
Those court cases in my previous post illustrate that as well as the simple fact that pyramid schemes generally DON'T win court cases and then stay in business afterwards. Also, Pre-Paid Legal (as stated previously) works with about 2600 lawyers and law firms nationwide and in Canada. Pyramid schemes also DON'T garner the support of the National Chamber Litigation Center, the public policy legal arm of the United States Chamber of Commerce, and the National Black Chamber of Commerce in seeking attorney's fees and expenses after court cases either. Also, there are many lawyers who are Pre-Paid Legal Associates as well...!!
I've found that most people simply don't know the difference between the two and will throw up their 'pyramid scheme' force-field when presented an opportunity as a means of defense. Most simply have low regard for salespeople and don't want to become one because they feel they 'can't sell anyting.' They don't realize that they have to sell THEMSELVES in just about anything in life! I didn't think I could sell anything either 3 years ago, but that didn't stop me from HAVING to do it for someone else on a job that I hated. I also didn't totally believe in the product, nor own it, nor use it (except on the job), nor did I profit from selling it either. Now I totally, 100 percent believe in this product and I own it and have used it and I profit from sharing it with others something I didn't do at my previous job. There is a HUGE need for the Pre-Paid Legal membership and the Identity Theft Shield...!!
If you SERIOUSLY want to KNOW what the company is all about, why not go to the corporate website and/or email an Associate and FIND OUT instead of posting on a message board?
Simply put, there are MANY millionaires in this company and there will be many many more to come. I intend to be one of them. This company made $119 million in 1997, $160 million in 1998, $196 million in 1999, $255 million in 2000, $303 million in 2001, $350 million in 2002 and $361 million in 2003 in gross revenues without needing just about everyone on this message board.
So if ANYONE has to honestly THINK about becoming a part of this company then it is NOT for them. There is no other company with our compensation plan, paying out as much as this company. If ANYONE has to THINK about getting involved for as low as the initial investment fee is (and its an investment in themselves AND their business) then they'll have to THINK about doing some WORK towards THEIR business and then they'll be focusing on the people who failed and they'll become one of them!!
Tim, the business model you have for yourself is great (for you). Stick with it and much success to you and yours in the years to come!
This business opportunity is for everyone but not for everyone. We only want people who are SERIOUSLY wanting to make a change in their lives and their families for the better and who are tired of being sick and tired. We also want people who are willing to help, teach and encourage others to do the same thing.
We are NOT trying to convince anyone nor are we begging anyone to get involved with us....at all!!
The bottom line is when and if you ever help over 50 people become Millionaires then you can 'Dream Steal' and offer your negative opinion.
Tim Valaparaiso a.k.a 'Dream Stealer' I was right. You haven't done anything that is as great as a Pre-Paid Legal Services Inc. Ok you've overcome some mental challenges that could have been avoided if you stayed away from drugs. It was your choice. Did you help anybody? No...It was all about yourself wasn't it? To say we have a great product and turn around and bash the Business model doesn't make a bit of sense does it?. The Business wouldn't work if they weren't both great together. Do you think a great pioneer in the Legal industry like Harland Stonecipher would create a Business plan that doesn't help people when the only way the product will survive is by the Sales force? It doesn't make any sense does it? The bottom line is when and if you ever help over 50 people become Millionaires then you can 'Dream Steal' and offer your negative opinion. Tim you compare us to a Mcdonalds employee's that cap out at 8 or 9 bucks an hour? That's a joke. Our income potential is unlimited!! There is no cap. Which makes it a better opportunity than even being a Lawyer who has to spend 12+ hours a day for $60,000 a year. After Taxes $3,500 a month with no Free time. The problem I see with you Tim is that New people who are just now trying to see if they could have some hope for a change in their life may listen to your negativity and therefore close their eyes to posabilities of succeeding and changing the quality of their lives. Thus you become a 'dream stealer'! You stole their Dreams without anything that you can offer them to replace what you stole. Not a thing. Do you have unlimited income potemtial as an Attorney? You don't do you? Your income is based on how many poor souls can fork out $200 to $400 an hour and that''s the exact reason why Pre-Paid Legal services Inc. was formed. ' To help people'. Proof: Have an associate with Pre-Paid Legal give you a Profiles of Success Book. It's a Phone book size book with over800+ people earning between $100,000 & $3,000,000 a year. I think that's proof.
Submitted: 1/2/2005 10:36:08 PM
Modified: 1/3/2005 12:10:46 AMDave
Madison Heights, MichiganU.S.A.
There is a Not a huge need for the Pre-Paid Legal membership and the Identity Theft Shield...!!
I am not an expert in Pyramid Schemes. What I do know is factual and put out in the Companies Financial reports to the SEC.
Pre-paid legal heavily relies on its marketing force for income from becomming an associate and also selling training materials. without this income they would be at a great loss, probably go bankrupt.
I am not a MLM person. I know that some people own buisness who are resellers of products or disrubutors of products. But, what you make money on here is signing people up to be associates and also sell memberships to legal discount/coverages that are almost meaningless.
I say meaning less because they do not cover the usual type of trouble a person has like family matters etc. You can never sue anyone they have to sue you first to use the 100% covered benifit. So what you are only getting is 25% off of some lawyer. You never choose an attorney you have to use their attorney. What if you dislike that one. Then you are stuck.
Identity theft shield. As if they are protecting you, shielding you from something happening. Not one person can stop 100% Identity theft from occuring all you can due is monitor your bills and credit reports. This is already available from the 3 credit agencies themselves. There is also fraud alert you can put oon your credit file for free yourself.
So lets say you have a Identity theft happen do I need the PPL lawyers and the service. No! you call the police and file a report. Call all your credit cards, and also let the FTC know in a report online that takes like 10 mins. You are not responsible for money charged up on the cards. The credit cards, banks etc. all have their own attorneys working for them to catch the thief. This is Fraud on them also not just you. So, as you think you are alone a victim the victim is also your credit accounts.
You may say what if someone is using my name to commit a crime. The police should protect you and if they don't there are plenty of FREE lawyers who will sue the City for arresting you without doing their homework.
With this all said. Is this worth 26 or more a month. No. Go pay your credit cards off.
Another know it all 'Dave'
If you own a Business Dave you have to buy supplies don't you? I here so many experts complaining about business expenses of buying materials. Sorry Dave with any business you have to spend some money. That doesn't make it bad does it? PPL doesn't make money on the start up Fee...have you seen what you get in your New Associate package? You haven't have you? Well until you actually see the CD's DVD's Training Material and Books and tapes that you get,you can't pretend to know it all. As for 'there's no need for The Pre-Paid Legal Membership and Identity Theft Shield'. You should tell that Mr. Dave to the 1.6+ Million and I say Million Members who pay their membership on a Volunteer basis. No contracts. The second largest requested employee Benefit in the USA. Dave are you starting to see how little you know? Several States have PPL as an Employee Benefit and tons of Major corporations do too. (They said the same thing about health care when it first came out)Our Identity Theft Shield is provided by KROLL Worldwide. The leading risk Management Company in the world. Over 2,000 employees and 61 offices in 19 countries.Credit is Monitored everyday.(Everyday) How often are you going to check your credit. Once a month? Dave a professional thief can assume your Identity in just a few hours. How is your once a year credit checking going to help? If someone tries to open an account under your name you will be contacted. $25,000 worth of insurance on the back end provided by AIG. (No deductable) for any expenses you have as a result of the theft.Dave it's only $9.95 with your PPL membership or $12.95 stand alone. 27.3 million number of victoms in the U.S.A in the last 5 years
Prepaid Legal or the Social Trap of Society? You choose.
People keep referring to Prepaid Legal as Pyramid Scheme. Prepaid is a legitimate business.
I would so encourage the non-believers, the people with doubt about Prepaid Legal to attend a FREE presentation in their area to learn all the facts about Prepaid Legal's business opportunity and membership.
There was a book written called 'In their own words', pages and pages of people that the Membership helped.
I remember before I obtained the membership, thinking that this membership is like a cell phone. If you don't have one you don't use it. But after you have it you tend to use it all the time and wonder how you were living with out it.
Prepaid Legal offers such a great opportunity for people that have drive and passion to make something happen in their lives.
The Trap of Society doesn't offer much relief. If it did I am sure people like me and countless others on this page wouldn't have sought refuge in PPL.
The trap: Go to school. Graduate. Get a JUB (Just Under Broke) working for someone else for 50-60 hours per week. Being forced to retire at age 65. Ending up at Wal-Mart to work the rest of your life.
If you want to be poor - follow the masses. If you want to be Rich - follow the wealthy.
You think Donald Trump, Bill Gates, Robert Kyosaki follow the masses? These people and many more are our trainers at PPL.
Each month PPL has a presenter give a 4 hour wealth building presentation. We learn from the best so we can be the best.
What do the masses learn?
PPL is not the only Network Marketing company out there, but I do believe it's one of the best. And the best part about that is.. I am not the only one.
Money Magazine, Success, Fortune, WallStreet Journal, USA Today and many others have written articles about us saying we are the trend to follow.
Prepaid Legal is not for everyone though - there are many who like working for someone else - as they do not have the drive to make something happen for themselves. Their hope is that someday their ship will come in. Perhaps investing a dollar a day into the lottery they will hit the big time.
I wish the best for everyone! God Bless you all!
Re: There is a Not a huge need for the Pre-Paid Legal membership and the Identity Theft Shield...!!
'Identity Theft occurs when someone gets ANY of your personal information and fraudulently uses it to get access to your Credit, Financial Accounts or obtain Employment. It is an Equal Opportunity Crime affecting victims of all races, income and ages' - Privacy & American Business publication by Center for Social & Legal Research.
Dave, is absolutely correct when saying one can choose to do it themselves, when Identity Theft occurs. Initially, they can HOPE it never happens to them and not get protected but when it happens...Sure, they can call their bank and/or credit card company, contact the three major credit repositories, go through the helpful but extensive steps recommended by the Federal Trade Commission in its 30-page consumer support publication, fill out and submit the affidavit form supplied by the FTC to dispute new, unauthorized accounts and spend countless hours and an average of $1,500 in out-of-pocket expenses in your efforts to resolve the many problems caused by identity thieves.
'The costs of Identity Theft - Average amount fraudulently charged: $39,000 per victim...Up 216 percent since 2000, average out-of-pocket costs averaged $1,500 per victim...Up 187 percent since 2000, average personal time resolving case: 600 hours per victim...Up 342 percent since 2000' - survey by the Identity Theft Resource Center.
That is the 'Plan' most people have (if any) while maintaining employment at a job that they can just take off from work and afford to do so at any time. Right? Sure, one can dispute credit card charges all the time and get them off of their credit report and scream identity theft and these companies will actually believe you! Try it! Maybe even put your complaint in writing along with the receipt and that will provide a better chance of getting the charges off.
'The toll of Identity Theft - it takes a long time to eliminate negative information from our credit reports: 41 percent of victims are wrestling with the problem after 2 years. 27 percent of victims continue to battle the problem after 3 years' - Survey by the Identity Theft Resource Center. So doing it yourself, how much time are YOU willing to invest?
Anyone know what happens when these companies receive a letter from YOU instead of a letter from your attorney? Oh, that's right - YOU DON'T HAVE AN ATTORNEY!! Well, they're only $200 per hour or more and that letter should cost about $200 or more and there's also a charge for the number of pages too. I've never heard of a FREE lawyer and I'd wonder why they are FREE when the BEST lawyer is charging for their services and time. Seems like everyone wants the BEST attorney when they feel they are owed something or when someone is trying to make them pay for something. Incredible as it seems, those are the only times people even think to consult an attorney outside of divorce. However, when faced with making a decision to get an attorney, that wallet or purse speaks loudly against it.
According to Dave, these 'FREE' lawyers are all around us. Does it go without saying that these 'FREE' lawyers don't have to pay bills and are just going around winning cases for people without being compensated for their efforts? Perhaps Dave, should give us the names and addresses and telephone numbers of these 'FREE' lawyers since there are sooo many of them.
Also, if the police are swamped with other crimes, what makes ANYONE think your identity theft problem is going to go to get top priority??
Here is something illustrating the need for the Identity Theft Shield - Identity theft is a booming business. The Federal Trade Commission reported 86,000 complaints in 2001, growing to 152,000 in 2002. In 2002, more than $47 billion in losses were reported. Just as shocking, it is estimated that more than 50 percent of victims do not notify police. So just WHO are these people calling to resolve this matter???
If you notice, there are OTHER companies and financial institutions offering identity theft protection, as well as Pre-Paid Legal. The Identity Theft Shield will not stop identity theft from happening to others. But it will stop it from happening to YOU because of the REGULAR MONITORING of your credit report and IDENTITY RESTORATION, which is something NO ONE ELSE BUT PPL OFFERS!
I don't know you tell me...Kroll Worldwide, the World Leaders in Independent Risk Consulting, 30+ years of experience, over 1,600 former FBI, CIA, law enforcement and other agents, 9/11 - recovered hundreds of millions of dollars for the Bank of Nova Scotia from the World Trade Center, hired by the Kuwaiti government to recover assets hidden by Saddam Hussein after the first Gulf War, chosen by SEC to restructure Enron and monitoring of the Los Angeles Police Department and the Detroit Police Department..ya think these guys could actually help protect YOU?
Dave, not being a MLM person is okay. However, Not knowing what you are talking about is NOT okay. No one gets paid for recruiting Associates, only on the membership(s) sold. Pre-Paid Legal is also a debt-free company (something most people aren't)and is not going bankrupt anytime soon. Associates get paid in overrides on the sales of their organizations just as brokers in real estate and insurance do and they've been doing it for years and no one cares about that.
The PPL membership is a PREVENTATIVE plan, meaning you have it in place BEFORE something happens, not just WHEN it happens. It's just like your car insurance and home-owners insurance. It's best to have the PPL Plan and not need it than need it and not have it. Family matters such as divorce are covered under the 25 percent discount but phone calls and letters are FREE. Again, if someone WANTS to pay 100 percent of an attorney's fees...I LET THEM!
I encourage people to READ their contracts to see what exactly is covered in the memberships. For informational purposes, the Identity Theft Shield provides access to your credit report so as you can evaluate your credit standing, continuous credit monitoring so as suspicious activity will be brought to your attention, providing you with early detection AND identity restoration, where a trained expert will take the steps to restore your good name and credit for you.
>Dave - 'So lets say you have a Identity theft happen do I need the PPL lawyers and the service..'
Here's a quick story and I'll close with this, My family and I were at a restaurant enjoying Thanksgiving in 2003. The waitress came over with our bill in a billfold. We thought she did a great job serving us so we tipped her $20. The bill was $100. A few days later my wife was doing some online banking and noticed the charge was for $180. My wife wanted to know if we gave the waitress more than $20. I couldn't remember and said maybe since it was a holiday. Well, we didn't call the police, we called the bank. The bank stopped the charge and contacted the restaurant who told them 'we have a signed receipt.' The bank called us back and informed us what the restaurant said and told us to honor the charge. We went to the restaurant and was shown a receipt that showed a falsified signature and a tip of $80. We tried using my wife's driver's license to prove the signature was false to no avail. The restaurant simply said 'we have a signed receipt.' The bank DID NOTHING but want us to honor the charge! We then called our law firm, who wrote a letter on our behalf to both the bank and the restaurant. Upon receiving the letter, both parties were more cooperative in wanting to investigate further and resolve the issue. The restaurant manager then and only then acknowledged that he suspected foul-play and promptly fired the waitress, and paid for a free dinner for us, gave us a $50 gift certificate and $65 in cash. Because of the letter from a law firm with a strong reputation in the statewide legal community for hard work, integrity and passionate representation of its clients, we were able to resolve this issue. This firm also enjoys an 'AV' rating.
The 'A' rating is for legal ability and takes into consideration experience, nature of practice and qualifications relevant to the profession. It places the firm in the very high to preeminent class. The 'V' rating is for general ethical standards based upon embracing faithful adherence to professional standards of conduct and ethics of the legal profession, professional reliability and diligence, and standards relevant to the attorney's discharge of his or her professional responsibilities.
Remember, it's a CHOICE to have this type of law firm on your side, no one is begging nor convincing anyone to do this. If you have something better...stick with it!!
$35.95 to cover your assets!! Most people on this message board pay more than that for cable, alcohol. cigarettes, gym memberships (which most don't use yet still pay for), and bottled water on a monthly basis. How are you protecting yourselves against legal issues and identity theft without these memberships? Having these memberships gives us peace of mind. When legal problems and/or identity theft problems occur most people DO NOT know who to call. Having these memberships, I KNOW exactly who to call..but again, that's my CHOICE..!!
Lajon - Fairfield, CA
USA
It works and it works well
Dave,
I can usually be pretty patient with folks ignorance. Some folks just don't know and that's okay. I've had my membership for 2 years and I've been an Associate for just a little under that. You're wrong, and that's really all there is to say.
Sorry you don't 'get it'... Got health Insurance? What a rip off that is..huh?..why don't you go pay off your credit cards with it instead.
PPL Associate... I don't DO credit. PPL pays me Money...really good passive income cash money...wooo hooo I like OWNING what I buy...Thanks!
Don't insult my company, because you really have NO clue what you're talking about.
Listen to Tim , let me reiterate my position on PPL
With all of the rhetoric and bluser I have seen on all sides here, I thought I would refocus the discussing by point out Tim's very appropriate commentary on PPL:
'And now let me reiterate my position on PPL. Product: good, as long as the providers keep up their end of the deal; Opportunity: not quite sure, it's basically a pyramid scheme, which have enormous failure rates, but I haven't seen any raw data to suggest either way.'
The value of any PPL plan is related directly the quality of the plans. It might be beneficials for some people and others might be able to get the same or better details searching for an attorney on their own. In some case, I can offer services at the same or better price than you could get on a PPL plan. In some cases, you can't get any decent quality for what you might be charges on a PPL plan. In other cases, you might not be able to beat the price of legal services under a PPL plan.
It's a little like buying a car. I'm partial to Ford myself and I've never had anything but good experiences with Ford vehicles. But Ford can make a lemon and there are people who have had very frustrating experiences with Ford. Do I have any hard data that Ford is better then Chevy or Chrysler beyond my personal experiences? No. I just like Fords better and I think Ford's vehicles are more styish than the others.
The bottom line: be a cautious, skeptical consumer and do lots of comparison shopping.
The truth (to Jay and all)
In response to Jay. I said that there are credit monitoring services available for less money than PPL is offering it to. Obviously you are nit picking my writing and putting writing about things that I did not say.
Equifax offers credit monitoring with $20,000 ins. for $99.00 a year.
Experian has this for 9.95
compared to PPL; ' the cost for the Identity Theft Shield is just $9.95 per month if you have a Pre-Paid Legal membership, or $12.95 per month if you prefer to enroll in the Identity Theft Shield without the legal service plan benefits'
You are not the only service in town.
So, You say they make no money on associates sign up fee of $249.00.
Here is an interesting note from the SEC filing. 'Since approximately 95% of membership fees are collected on a monthly basis, a significant cash flow deficit loss is created at the time a membership is sold. This deficit is reduced as monthly membership fees are remitted and no additional commissions are paid on the membership until all previous unearned advance commission balances have been fully recovered.'
Herer is a point I must make that is borderline pyramid. The company uses assocaties to sell memberships. You can not sign up withuot an associate selling you a membership. So without the sales force of associates PPL would have to find a new way to sell memberships like a call center.
Now what about nor revenue from assocates? What about this statement made to the SEC; 'Associate services revenue decreased 13% from $7.5 million for the first three months of 2003 to $6.6 million during the comparable period of 2004 primarily as a result of approximately 50% fewer new associates recruited. Total new associates enrolled during the first quarter of 2004 were 14,774 compared to 29,755 for the same period of 2003. As a result of the 50% lower overall recruiting, associate fees decreased 16% from $4.5 million for the first three months of 2003 to $3.8 million during the comparable period of 2004. Future revenues from associate services will depend primarily on the number of new associates enrolled, the price charged for the Fast Start program and the number who choose to participate in the Company's eService program, but the Company expects that such revenues will continue to be largely offset by the direct and indirect cost to the Company of training providing associate services and other direct marketing expenses.'
Finally I end with this note from last years annual report; 'The Company is dependent upon the success of its marketing force. The Company's principal method of product distribution is through multi-level marketing. The success of a multi-level marketing force is highly dependent upon the Company's ability to offer a commission and organizational structure and sales training and incentive program that enable sales associates to recruit and develop other sales associates to create an organization. There are a number of other products and services that use multi-level marketing as a distribution method and the Company must compete with these organizations to recruit, maintain and grow its multi-level marketing force. In order to do so, the Company may be required to increase its marketing costs through increases in commissions, sales incentives or other features, all of which could adversely affect the Company's future earnings. In addition, the level of confidence of the sales associates in the Company's ability to perform is an important factor in maintaining and growing a multi-level marketing force. Adverse financial developments concerning the Company, including negative publicity or common stock price declines, could adversely affect the ability of the Company to maintain the confidence of its sales force.'
So, I ask you all now what. These are not words but the words of the company.
To put it blantly they can not operate with out associate.
To Jay I think it is time to be quiet because this is the truth.
In a nut shell - it works IF you are willing to work!
The naysayers on this post remind me of the people on Amazon giving their movie reviews without seeing the movie first and then giving the movie ONE star ???
The start up cost to get started in PPL is $249. How many business can you start today with such a low investment? I don't know of any.
How many businesses will train you with wealth building seminars to help you improve your sales and your life?
There is so many reasons to join PPL and get off the couch and out of the comfort zone.
That's the real trick though isn't it? These naysayers aren't really going after PPL as a business they just fear the unknown. They prefer working for someone else. They like the fact that when they hit their prime (retirment age) they will be cast out. They like having more month at the end of the money. The enjoy paying the minimum on their credit cards. The like living in debt. They like all these things. Why? They are comfortable with them.
It's HARD to break free, to be on your own and make something HAPPEN in your life.
It's much easier to complain, blame the system and argue that PPL doesn't work rather than working and making your dreams come true.
The Facts are actually stacked against Pre-Paid Legal being something that everyone needs.
Close to half of the memberships that are sold are cancelled within a year's time. How many associates are told this when they are recruited, considering they'll have to pay a chargeback if they are making advance commission?
Pre-Paid Legal has been around for 33 years and still has yet to become a mainstream product.
Pre-Paid legal sells about 750,000 plans every year, but almost as many plans are cancelled in the same time, which is why the 1.6 million members Jay brags about, isn't as impressive when you realize that this number has been about the same for years now.
If Pre-Paid Legal were to suddenly stop marketing memberships the number of scale down to about 500,000 within 2-3 year's time.
It's a numbers game with Pre-Paid. The reason they use Network Marketing is because this allows them to recruit salespeople in bucketloads. The more they recruit, the higher number of gifted salespeople they will find in the mix. Those cream of the crop top 10% salespeople will sell about 90% of the memberships. The majority will never make a sale, and a small minority will turn up with mixed results, often times selling it to their friends and family—that's the idea behind using warm leads.
In fact, Pre-Paid was actually struggling until switching over to Network marketing.
The advantages of being a Network Marketing company include but are not limited to;
-Associates are not entitled to the same rights as employees as they are contractors and in many cases, including this one, unlike the associate, the company can change the terms of the contract at their discretion.
-Associates cover the costs that the company would typically have to cover ie. Not having to pay for advertising as you have hundreds of thousands of associates doing all of the footwork
-Pre-Paid does not have to pay the associates who can't or don't sell. Despite what the Network Marketing Robots will tell you, not everyone can be a salesperson. We each have our own individual talents and weaknesses.
-The more associates there are, the more warm leads (friends, family, acquaintances, co-workers) the company has at their disposal. It's easier to sell to a warm market than a cold one.
-The associate takes on the brunt of the chargeback on cancelled memberships. So even if someone cancelled because they decided the service was lacking, unneeded, or were disappointed by the customer support, the associate takes the financial blame for the cancellation (and there are many).
The bottom line is CHECK YOUR FACTS!
If someone tells you that “the former vice president of prestigious company X says Pre-Paid is a great company" as what this person's name is and where you can verify the endorsement.
If someone gives a vague paraphrase of a supposed endorsement in a publication, ask to see a copy of the column or article.
And remember, many seemingly prestigious positions are something that can be paid for.
Do your due diligence on Robert Kiyosaki. The Network Marketing drones tout his book but some questions have been raised as to how the man came to money. Some have gone as far to say that he made his money from the books he has sold, which tell people how to make money, and that until he aligned himself with Network Marketing companies, his books were going nowhere. Think about the obvious relationship: Kiyosaki endorses NWM every chance he gets; he speaks up at their conventions, and mentions them in his book. The NWM companies themselves recommend his book to their bodies of salespeople which is easily in the millions, and when they purchase the book, they read about his endorsement of NWM. It's a symbiotic relationship.
Here are some more facts regarding misstatements that have been made;
Pre-Paid is similar to the HMO, whereby it was scarcely accepted until hitting that 2% penetration mark, whereupon it met with great success and became a widely used service.
But HMOs hit their 2% within 15 years on the market. After 33 years on the market, Pre-Paid is still struggling to reach that mark.
I've also heard it said that new technology always takes awhile before gaining wide acceptance. Again, what ‘new' technology took more than 30 years to gain widespread acceptance?
USAToday article stating that Pre-Paid Legal looks like the HMO industry before becoming what it is now. What does that mean? Has anyone read the actual article and read it in context?
Enron was also on the NYSE
There have been as many negative articles on Pre-Paid as there have been positive ones.
One attorney made the accusation that the average associate only makes about $2 a week after paying for sales materials. If you take the total money associates earn in sales and divide it by the number of associates and then subtract it by the amount associates paid in sign up and marketing tools, that just might be correct. If anyone has access to these numbers, it may be worth your while to do this math and post it.
The idea that people really need the service but don't know it flies in the face of all of the services that are being successfully sold. Why did it only take 15 years for people to KNOW they needed HMOs yet after 33 years people still don't realize how much they need Pre-Paid Legal?
Over One Million Families will Sleep Better Tonight
All of THIS over, $35.95 per month, with a one-time $10.00 enrollment fee...!!
Naysayers are going to the 10k reports (which the company INVITES people to do), to justify their position on WHY they will not spend that amount of money and WHY they don't need the membership(s) nor get involved as an Associate. It's better to focus on the negative aspects on network marketing, so as to justify being afraid of trying something new and working out of their comfort zone. One thing I do know is that naysayers against network marketing don't know the law which is why they are SLOW to mention what THEY do for a living and they don't know the difference between a pyramid scheme and a legitimate network marketing company. Also, what makes these people such experts at reading a 10k report or financial statement? Contrary to what naysayers argue, after years of skepticism, the investment community is finally waking up to the viability of direct selling as a good investment opportunity. Also, the direct selling force is huge; it is now a legion of 49 million individuals GLOBALLY. And those ranks are swelling rapidly as 475,000 enlist each week. THAT article was in Fortune Magazine, August 9, 2004!
Automobile Insurance, Home-Owners Insurance, Life Insurance and Health Insurance.
Did anyone of the naysayers, go to those company's 10k reports, look for positive and/or negative articles or message boards PRIOR to buying these plans OR did they simply take the word of the salesperson because they HAVE to have these insurances as it is the law AND the companies are well-known.
PPL is held under such a microscope and shouldn't have to justify WHY people need its products and services beyond what other companies offering similiar products do, people trying to get ahead in life SEE the need for these products and services and quite simply those not trying to get ahead in life DO NOT. However, since PPL is the Market Leader and Pioneer in this arena, PPL knows it will come under fire by naysayers/short-sellers and welcomes the challenge! Some people still don't have all of those insurances (auto, home, life, health) and are operating outside of the law, especially when it comes to automobile insurance. Not, having automobile insurance is not stopping some people from driving! However, NOT having medical insurance is seen as being not too smart. WHY? If no one needs these insurance plans AND people cancel them as well, YET people STILL get them. WHY? Soon, having some form of legal insurance will be law.
The Timing - History shows that when an industry hits a 2 percent market penetration, critical mass can be achieved. The growth of HMO's - It took 10 years for HMO's to reach 2 percent market penetration. After that, it took just seven more years to reach 52 percent market penetration. Less than 2 percent of North Americans have a Pre-Paid Legal Services Membership and approximately 80 percent of Europeans have legal coverage! WHY IS THAT???
Would having the USAToday article in hand, make anyone purchase the PPL membership(s)?? I doubt it!
Since the naysayers on this message board have so much to say against PPL, I would like to know just how they are protecting themselves, their families and businesses against legal problems and/or identity theft. Have they asked their employers whether or not they have these types of benefits available to employees? Just how proactive are these naysayers/shortsellers on protecting themselves, families and businesses against legal and/or identity theft problems?
Remember it is a CHOICE to have these memberships, if you have something BETTER, then stick with it!!
Credit Monitoring VS Prepaid Legal ID Theft
Yes people are right there are many services that monitor your credit and then report back to you if something is unlawful. However these companies such as Discover, Amex, Sears, etc offering MONITORING services.
MONITORING EXAMPLE: You are at work. A call is made from your Monitoring service. Hello Sir, we are monitoring your house now and we can see that burglars have entered your home and are stealing everything. We can see them doing it as I am talking to you. You say: Well.. can you call the police? Can you catch them? MONITORING SERVICE? Sir, no? We don't catch them we MONITOR them. We will send you a kit in the mail to take care of it. Good Luck Sir, have a good day.
Prepaid Legal & ID Theft: You are at work. A call is made from your monitoring and restoration service. Sir, just wanted to let you know someone was doing something unlawful to your credit report. Sir, we caught them. Sir, let us help you and walk you through the procedure on how to get your ID restored.
Which do you prefer a kit or a licensed ID Theft agent helping you?
Know it all Dave
I ask you Dave....What company do you own that all of us PPL Associates can critique???? You own nothing do you? John Adison said 'never take advice from anyone more screwed up than you'! Makes sense doesn't it? Paul J. Myer is a Billionaire and PPL Associate. Who should we listen to? Dave,Tim..... or Paul J Myer? hmmmm
Submitted: 1/9/2005 11:45:14 PM
Modified: 1/10/2005 11:26:21 AMPegleg Pete
Owatonna, MinnesotaU.S.A.
Re: Prepaid Legal Ripoff
First, let me start out by stating that I am a pawnbroker. People try to sell me things every day, and everybody has got a story. When a 20-something kid came in to my pawn shop and asked whether I needed a Pre-Paid Legal policy, I was skeptical, to say the least, but I didn't have any customers standing around, so what the heck?
To make a long story short, I bought a policy, then signed up to sell it myself. I have found that Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc. does a great job in what they say they will provide. As my trainer told me, 'Is everything covered? Yes. Is everything free? No.' If you get yourself in a situation with divorce, child support, drugs or alcohol, your coverage is not free and that should have been explicitly pointed out when you signed up for the policy.
Do I like the fact that PPLS is multi-level marketing? No. Do I like having 'big-city lawyers' in my pocket? Yes. Anybody who is in business for themselves, or who has a concealed-carry permit for a gun, NEEDS this policy.
I've sold a few policies to friends and family members, those who I thought could use it, but have generally not tried to sign up other associates under me. Heck, I get paid $100 every time I sell a policy anyway, so I'd rather just sit back and collect my money rather than diddling with the whole 'upline, downline' sort of thing. I'm not a big one for the 'hooraw, you could be a millionaire next year' type of line, but I know what puts money in my pocket, and I know that, in a small town, I cannot afford to sell my customers a junk policy--I'd be out of business in a couple of months.
Check your facts
Paul Meyer
Then there's Pre-Paid's tie-in to the L-K Marketing Group of Waco, Tex., run by Paul J. Meyer. Pre-Paid hooked up with Meyer in 1998, when it bought The People's Network, a marketer of self-help programs where Meyer was a principal, for $19 million in Pre-Paid shares. L-K claimed two years ago to have recruited 53% of the Pre-Paid agents brought on board in North America in the first six months of 2000. But Meyer has been charged three times by the FTC with using deceptive business practices, the last in 1995. That June he agreed (along with other executives and another company he runs, SMI/USA) to settle the charges by paying a total of $320,000, one of the FTC's largest civil penalties at that time, for overstating to prospective agents the income potential and ease of selling self-improvement products.
Kiyosaki
Smart Money story
The 2/03 Smart Money magazine did a story about Kiyosaki. They turned up a few details I had not dug up.
Kiyosaki is chameleonlike, changing his speech radically to pander to each audience. I said he was a financial demagogue. That would be what a demagogue would do. To a religious audience, he's a preacher. To entrepreneurs, he's a Marine drill sergeant and combat veteran. To Amway distributors he's an MLM guy, and so forth.
It's called telling people what they want to hear.
Component depreciation
At the end of a seminar to a religious group, he says he recently did a real estate deal where he got a 17% cash-on-cash return and that “there's 24% component depreciation on the property." Really? Gee, and I thought component depreciation was explicitly outlawed by the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981. Actually, I'm sure of it. It's right there in Section 168(f)(2) of the Internal Revenue Code.
Smart Money cannot find his deals
Kiyosaki claims to have done many highly profitable real estate deals. But Smart Money could not find them in the Maricopa County (Phoenix) records. He claimed to have bought one property for $20,000 and sold it immediately for $60,000. Smart Money could find no purchase for which he paid less than $40,000 (one had no price) and no property which he sold in less than 20 months. When asked about the discrepancy, Kiyosaki said, “I don't pay attention to those things."
Huh?
This may explain why Kiyosaki does not seem fond of going to court. Give an answer like that in a court room and the judge will say, “Answer the question, Mr. Kiyosaki. The court is not interesting in what you pay attention to. Nor are you going to get away with evading answering a question by giving an unresponsive answer like that."
Kiyosaki tried to claim the deal in question was done in a partnership. Smart Money could find no evidence of such a partnership. Kiyosaki refused to provide the information or documents that would prove his claim.
Took Yamana Resources public?
Kiyosaki claims he has taken a number of businesses public. When asked to name them, he could only cite Yamana Resources, a Toronto Stock Exchange corporation. The CEO and founder of that corporation, Victor Bradley, told Smart Money that Kiyosaki's only connection with Yamana is that he owned some shares of Platero Resources, a privately held corporation that Yamana acquired in 2001—six years after Yamana went public.
Helicopter pilot
Smart Money apparently takes Kiyosaki's word for it that he was really a helicopter pilot. Since his military records show no flight school or wings (see above), I'm still skeptical.
Desertion?
The melodramatic incident Kiyosaki relates about refusing to return to ship as a Marine officer in Hong Kong changes in Smart Money. Now he says he was one of 480 guys who got left behind when the ship left early. In his first book, described above, he seems to nominate himself for the Nobel Peace Prize as an active-duty, Marine, anti-war protestor. Now we learn he just missed the boat.
Wanted—dead or alive?
As to the whereabouts of Rich Dad—at one point, Kiyosaki tells Smart Money that he died in 1992. Poor man.
Later, he says Rich Dad is still alive, but a reclusive invalid. Uh huh. So how to explain Kiyosaki applying for a trademark on Rich Dad Poor Dad and telling the U.S. government under penalty of prison that the phrase refers to no living persons?
Later, he tells Smart Money that Rich Dad was a composite of several persons.
Finally, he gets angry at Smart Money. “Is Harry Potter real? Why don't you let Rich Dad be a myth, like Harry Potter?"
That would be fine, Robert, just as soon as you remove Rich Dad from the non-fiction best seller list and go over and compete with Harry Potter on the fiction best-seller list.
So I guess the final word is that Rich Dad is as real as Harry Potter. I suppose that, in turn, means that the way to become financially independent is to get a magic wand—or to write book about fictional characters who did.
Kiyosaki was a seminar instructor
Almost all of the bad real estate gurus got their real start as pitchmen or instructors for other bad gurus. Kiyosaki was an instructor for attorney and real estate investor Marshall Thurber for nine years. I know nothing about Thurber other than that Kiyosaki loved him when he wrote his first book and failed to mention him at all when he wrote his second.
Here is what one unlucky got when she paid for Pre-paid legal.
NOTHING read below case of a woman in need of counsel.
The truth us, PPL does NOT COVER many types of cases, including criminal, but they do not tell you that when you join. Only the lucky and few who read the fine print find out before-hand.
READ BELOW:
Wrongful Termination, Discrimination & Violation of my Civil Rights.
Please if 'anyone' can help me to locate an attorney that will take my case on a contingency or Pro-Bono. I don't have much time left to go and have been working very hard to find a Labor & Employment Law attorney to assist me.
My situation is very intricate and I truly don't know where to begin. Several months back I was involved in a FRAUD BY DECEPTION scheme, which caused me to be arrested on a felony charge of forgery. I received a check in the mail from a Canadian businessman in the amount of $38,000. I had received several bad checks prior, so I made a decision to go to the bank that the check was drawn on to get a cashiers check rather than depositing the check into my bank account and the check not clearing. The people I was doing business with had some trouble with their private financiers and were sending bad checks to me, which had caused my account to close twice, so I did not want to risk that happening again and that is why I decided to go to the payee bank.
It was a work day for me and I went into work early that day and later decided to go to the bank before it closed. I informed my coworker and asked that he let my boss know that I went to the bank and will be right back. My boss was in a meeting at the time and I had to get to the bank before it closed. It was not uncommon for us to take off for an early break or early lunch to take care of our personal business as such. While at the bank, they were doing their security check and I was never alarmed of anything wrong because I did not and was not doing anything wrong. I arrived at the bank at 3:30 PM and at 5:00 PM a police officer entered the bank, but I never thought anything of it. He called me over and by 5:30 PM I was arrested. When I got to the Detention Center to be booked, that's when I learned of what I was arrested for on the booking paper-works, which stating I was arrested for 'forgery.' I never got the opportunity to endorse the check.
From 3:30PM until 11:30PM when I made bail and was released from the Detention Center. Since I had never been in any sort of trouble before, I never knew what to do or what to expect. My family got me an attorney immediately. While incarcerated I had a friend contact my employer and told her to tell them something, but not of my being arrested, because I was so afraid of losing my job if they found out. My friend left a voice message for my boss explaining that I was involved in a car accident and was hospitalized. I tried to clean up the story with my boss by explaining that it was not me that was in the accident, but that it was a family member rather. I was so embarrassed and was afraid if they'd found out that I would lose my job and so I tried to handle it without them ever finding out that I was arrested when i should have been at work. While I was at the bank and being detained there, I was so concerned about my job and getting back late, so I asked the police officers if I can call my job to let them know that I would not be returning back for the evening. That's when the officer asked where did I worked, so I openly told then who I worked for and not knowing that it would ultimately harm me later. One of the officers said to me that 'where she is concerned that I should not be working there, and that it's where I must have gotten the account number from.' Several days later, the bank then notified the Vice President of Security and I was called into work while on PTO (paid Time Off/Vacation) to come and talk with the VP of Security and the Sr. VP of Human Resources. When my boss called me to tell me to come in and talk with them, that is when I went apologized and told him what really happened to me on that day I did not return to work.
My attorney advised me not to talk about the case with anyone including my employer. I expressed that to the executive officers of my former company and told them that I did nothing wrong and that I was completely innocent of what their client (the bank) had expressed to them. In closing our talk, they explained that I was being placed under suspension for 2 weeks without pay while they conduct their own internal investigation, at which time, they would notify me. A day after the suspension period I received a letter in the mail stating that I was effectively terminated on the end-date of the suspension, that I posed a risk to the company and the fact that I was not honest with them about the day of my arrest. The letter said noting about my violating company policy. A few days later, I received a package from the HR Generalist, it had my separation notice, stating I was terminated due to my absences on the date of my arrest including a documents regarding their company policy.
I went on to apply for my unemployment claim and was denied benefits. I filed an appeal and my attorney who is handling the criminal case represented me in that matter also. I won the appeal, and per the Unemployment Administrative Hearing Office's final report, my former employer did not provide the burden of proof that I 'forged' the check per their client's complaint (the bank). During the appeal hearing, the Sr. VP of Human Resources stated that they terminated my employment because I was absence from work for an entire week which was not true. I was scheduled for PTO (vacation time).
After the appeal hearing, my attorney said that I should immediately file this case with the EEOC, that my Civil Rights were violated by former employer. As of October 25, 2004, I submitted my Request for Notice of Right to Sue. I tried calling my attorney immediately after the submittal but he was constantly in court and did not return my calls. My last visit with him he did express to me that he did not like practicing Employment Law. I needed his help on where to look and how to get help since I am unemployed and did not have the funds. I contacted an associate they were affiliated with Pre-Paid Legal Service. I joined the network, but they referred me to an attorney that wanted $125 for the consultation fee. I had already explained to the Pre-Paid Legal head attorney my financial situation and that I needed a free consultation. I asked that they referred me to someone else and they said they could not refer me to anyone else. I wasted all of November 2004 on this matter with Pre-Paid Legal Service.
I went on to make contact with the Georgia Legal Aid Society and the Georgia Bar Association Pro-Bono Program and they both said they could not help me with my Employment Law issues. During the December month and holiday in the midst, I was lead to contact the Georgia Law Schools, which I contacted and left a voice message for the Dean heading the Pro-Bono Program. She did try to return my call while she was on vacation and left me a message asking that I call her after January 10th when she returned back to school, which I did, but still have not heard from her upon leaving my second message. My time is drawing near and will end as of January 25, 2005, at which point, I will have no other recourse to do anything regarding this situation ever again.
I desperately need help from any attorney that will take my case. I don't have the funds until I can find a job, so I need someone who is willing to take my case on a contingency basis or for a very small or by Pro-Bono. I am a decent person who is not a criminal although I am being charged as one. I've always helped others and I pretty much gave away all that I have to helping others. I am deeply saddened by all of this and I was not looking for trouble when it found me, but nonetheless, I am here now in the lion's den. I don't know what my future will be with all of this hanging over my head. I look back and only wish that the WBE (World Business Exchange) would have told me about these scams that were coming from out of Africa and some of the African citizens of London, England. They later asked me if my trainer and coach had not warned me about doing business with the people of the African continent. I later found out from the WBE that many of their student/members have gotten into trouble as well. Today, I believe that they are now warning their students/members of this. I am asking that someone help me by referring me to an attorney that will take my case, or does anyone have any suggestion for me that will help me.
Thank you!
Two more cents
Some general comments first. I have engaged in many of these little debates with supporters of various MLMs. I come to each of them with the notion that MLM, or whatever you would like to call it, is a business model built on failure. It provides great success for those at the top, and for the bottom line of the company, at the expense of those at the bottom.
In only one other case, however, was the following observation necessitated: the supporters far outnumber the detractors. When I see a particular report against a prticular company, one of the things I look at in making a final judgment is the sheer volume of the defenders versus the naysayers. Here, as far as the opportunity is concerned, there are few complaints. In fact, I have been virtually alone in a sea of defenders. Compare this to Primerica, IXP.net, Quixtar, etc., where those claiming that the opportunity is rotten far outnumber those who would praise it. Logic tells me that, if a certain 'opportunity' systematically victimizes those who take advantage of it, that there will be good chunk of complaints (most people will jump on the opportunity to complain about comething that has done them wrong). In the absence of said complaints my preconceptions must yield, somewhat, to the possibility that this may in fact be a viable opportunity.
I have never been one to stick with an argument that may be flawed. Don't take that as an admission of my own error, however. There are still a number of things that trouble me about PPL. I have repeatedly asked for hard, verifiable evidence supporting the value of the opportunity and have instead been told of a book full of success stories. This is sheer anecdote, not verifiable, and when the math is done, not that impressive even if it were true (800 people breaking the six figure mark in the 30 year history of a nationwide corporation? For a sales force that has had hundreds of thousands of agents, that's not such a great figure).
And I will stick to my guns and advise skepticism of current agents and potential recruits. PPL may be marketing what I consider to be a quality product at a good price, there may be few complainants, but the hallmarks of shoddy MLMs are still present. The 'get rich quick' mentality, recruiting by fear (see comments by Jay above, who repeatedly refers to me as a dream stealer, and is convinced that PPL is the sole avenue for success), the mere use of the term 'dream stealer' which was contrived by Amway bigwigs to prevent naive reps from listening to the warranted cautions of their loved ones, the indorsement of Robert Kiyosaki, the list goes on.
So then, would I ever jump on this 'opportunity?' Actually, I don't think that the ethics of my profession would allow it, and even if they did, I would not. Nonetheless, if you must be an MLMer, you're probably better off in PPL than in most others I have seen, and my mind remains open to the viability of the plan. I still would like to see some hard, verifiable numbers, however.
Next I would like to again some to the defense of the PPL product (yes, it is possible to simaltaneously believe that a company has a solid product and a bad business model, if your reasoning capacities are sound).
An above rebuttal decries te failure of PPL to assist a woman in dire straits. Notice, however, that this woman became a PPL member AFTER her legal troubles had begun. PPL is a business, marketing a type of 'legal insurance.' As a business, PPL must make good business decisions. To do otherwise would be a violation of duties owed to the shareholders. Covering pre-existing claims would not be a good business decision. The viability, and profitability, of an insurance plan depends on non-use. In other words, harsh as it may seem, an insurance company depends on its services not being utilized by the majority of its policy holders. Its simple business.
At first glance this seems like a moral quagmire, but it really isn't. If you wrecked your uninsured vehicle one day, would you then go to an inurance agency, purchase a policy, and expect that they would cover the existing damage to your vehicle? Nobody would ever think of doing that. Insurance policies cover those matters that arise while the policy is in effect, not pre-existing conditions. As a function of the duty of care owed to shareholders, the law all but expressly prohibits what the above rebuttal is demanding.
If working out is sogreat how come everybody isn't in shape?
If working out is so great,how come everybody isn't in shape? This is a question that a naysayer would ask? answer: Because it's on a volunteer basis. The same with Pre-Paid Legal. Naysayers:If Pre-Paid Legal is so great,how come everybody isn't successful? Answer: because it's on a volunteer basis. I say to all the Naysayers who complain about a start up fee. About spending money running a Business. 1. It's a whopping $249 to start your own Business. Where else in America can you start a Business for $249...($249) Now lets examine the big challenge that the Smart naysayers have pointed out. They complain about the major cost for materials and books or DVD's and loss of joining this terrible MLM. When you sell a PPL membership,you send in $35+ a $10 dollar enrollment fee to the company. The company PPL sends you $103.00 to $252.35 the next day direct deposit into your account.(who's trusting who) And oh ...you can sell as many memberships as you want. Unlimited income potential. (sounds like a good dream to me)Ok if you can't find 2 people that have a Legal situation or want Identity theft protection out of the million+ people in your state.(35million in California) you've got alot of problems. 2. 30 Attorney Generals have the Pre-Paid Legal membership. 3. over 400+ attorneys are now PPL associates on one team alone in California. Several closed their practise to do PPL full time. 4. The owner of PPL spoke at the Whitehouse twice. 5. The owner of PPL spoke at a National Attorney Generals Conference infront of all the Attorney Generals of the United States of America 6.Multi level Marketing has created more millionaires than any other industry. 7.Pre-Paid Legal has no competition 8.'The Tipping Point' by Malcolm Gladwell 9.Bottled water industry's been around for 100 years 1998 hit 2% 9.July,17th 2000 Business Week came out with their Retirement issue.They said 'If you want to retire in the next 20 years there are 9 stocks you might want to consider'. Out of 10,000+ publicly Traded Companies Pre-Paid Legal was one of 9 stocks you might want to consider. 10. Standard & Poor said 'we can see Legal insurance as a future Standard employee Benefit'. 11. March 18th 2002 Investors Business Daily. There are 3 Branches of Government. The Executive Branch - The Legislative Branch and The Judicial Legal Branch. 'Pre_Paid Legal is changing the way an entire Branch of Government is accessed'. 12. National average from Allstate insurance per month. Fire $93.00 - Health $382.00 - Auto $210.00 - Life $145.00 Who are you going to call if one of the insurance companies doesn't want to pay the amount they were obligated to pay? Right an Attorney... $26 a month PPL membership to make the other policies work. PPL associates we have a purpose....we're giving people access to a system that they are simply frozen out of. We not only get success but we can get significance by providing an opportunity for people to build their dreams and at the same time help those who can not help themselves. When a naysayer helps as many people as this company does,maybe ...and I say maybe listen to them. A wise man said 'Never take advice from somebody more screwed up than you'. Another wise man said' I'd rather have 1% of 100 peoples efforts rather than 100% of my own. 'Think'. PPL Associate Jay
Submitted: 1/13/2005 8:17:55 PM
Modified: 1/14/2005 12:10:20 AMPegleg Pete
Owatonna, MinnesotaU.S.A.
PPL and suing your employer
In regards to the lady who was trying to sue her employer, and the feller above who said:
'An above rebuttal decries te failure of PPL to assist a woman in dire straits. Notice, however, that this woman became a PPL member AFTER her legal troubles had begun. PPL is a business, marketing a type of 'legal insurance.' As a business, PPL must make good business decisions. To do otherwise would be a violation of duties owed to the shareholders. Covering pre-existing claims would not be a good business decision. The viability, and profitability, of an insurance plan depends on non-use. In other words, harsh as it may seem, an insurance company depends on its services not being utilized by the majority of its policy holders. Its simple business.'
I submit the following:
PPL actually *does* cover pre-existing conditions in many cases. The only ones I'm not aware of are speeding tickets, divorce/child custody, and, of course, suing other people.
As has been explained already, PPL is a *defensive* plan, meaning that if someone is suing YOU or criminally prosecuting YOU, then you get free coverage in the amount of xxx hours. If you want to sue OTHER parties, PPL will still hook you up with an attorney (theoretically a hand-selected one, though I wonder sometimes), and you will receive a DISCOUNT from his usual rate. This should have been clearly and strongly relayed before our damsel in distress bought her policy, but apparently the Associate wasn't doing his job.
In my 'Quick Start' training, I was advised, strongly advised, to 'under-promise and over-deliver', meaning that if someone had a borderline or weird situation, I should not tell them that they would have legal representation for free from PPL. The home office would make the determination, and in most cases they would provide free legal defense, even for the weirdos.
As far as what PPL offers and what it provides the Associate, when you sign up with PPL, you get:
1) A free will for yourself.
2) A free will for your spouse.
3) A free living will.
4) A free power of attorney.
5) Free contract and document review. You can fax over any contracts or documents that people (say, cel phone providers or landlords) want you to sign up to a limit of (I think) 11 pages, and PPL lawyers will review them and give you their opinion. I believe this service is unlimited.
6) Unlimited free questions on legal topics (I think the 'free' limit is 2 phone calls per related topic). Yeah, I know, most lawyers offer free 'initial consulatations', but if you're calling them 3 times a week and it's pretty clear they're not going to make money off of you, they'll stop taking your calls.
7) Free court and prep time representation if you are sued, up to a limit of xxx hours (in my case, about 300 hours--goes up like 25 hours every year).
8) Free court and prep time represenation if you are accused of a criminal offense, up to a limit of xxx hours (I don't know what my hours are up to, as it's more likely that I'll get sued than arrested).
9) Free attorney letters, one per subject. My PPL attorneys will write a threatening letter to anyone of my choosing, but only one letter per dispute unless I want to pay more.
10) Legal Shield. Legal Shield costs $1 extra per month, but I always make my customers take it. If you are pulled over and being interrogated, or are accused of a crime in the middle of the night, you can have a lawyer on the phone within like 10 minutes, no matter what time, day or night. Does not cover DWI or drug-related offenses. Not much use for me, but useful for some of my minority customers (f'r instance, being pulled over by Border Patrol and having to prove they're a citizen or whatever).
11) Speeding tickets and other moving violations. PPL will send a lawyer ANYWHERE in the country, for free, to defend you on a moving violations charge. DWIs are not free, but are covered at a reduced rate. You don't even have to show up in court--your lawyer will appear for you.
12) IRS audit protection--free. If you are audited by the IRS, PPL will send a lawyer to appear at the audit in your behalf, up to a limit of xxx hours.
13) Your whole family is covered under this policy, even kids in college--don't tell me college kids don't get into legal trouble.
Cost: As low as $19 per month, max I think is $26 for a personal (family policy).
So what do I get when I sell a policy? Basically, I get $100 direct-deposited into my bank account within 24-48 hours after the paperwork is received in Ada, OK. You start out at getting $75 per policy, sell 5 and you're up to $100. Sell a few more, and you're at $125. Sell a group policy, and you get $60 per person in that group. So if I sold, say, the City of Minneapolis, I'd get maybe 5,000 employees times $60 = $300,000.
Personally, I hate MLM, and I can't understand why PPL is set up that way. But I recognize money in my pocket. I don't go out of my way to sell policies, as I'm not a pushy guy. But I'd guess I've sold 6 or 7. Given that I signed up as an associate, my out-of-pocket expense was $99, compared to an income of $475-575.
But I haven't tried very hard. I could, very easily, invite a bunch of friends and business associates to a little meeting and sign up 15-20 people for policies in one night. If I sign on others as Associates, I get an *additional* $125.
It's not rocket science. It's a good product at a reasonable price, with no competition.
Submitted: 1/15/2005 12:29:50 AM
Modified: 1/15/2005 12:48:12 AMDave
Madison Heights, MichiganU.S.A.
The Pre-Paid Game
I wanteveryonehereto know the truth aboutpre-paid legal and you are being taken advantage of.
How are you beingtaken advantage. Pre-paid looks for people who are not goingto do any investigation work at all into what they are buying.
All of the following information is from the FTC report that PPL does use themselves. These statements are not debateable they are factual.
Per the report the average person spent only 30 hours taking care of ID Theft. Not the 175 hours quoted on the web site at Pre-paid legal.
67% People who discovered the ID Theft within 5 months have no cost to them at all. the average out-of-pocket expense was %500 and $1200 for those who are New accounts. This is not what the Pre-paid legal website says. It says that thethe cost is highter.
So, my question is this. Why are they pumping up the numbers. I also ask why would anyone pay 26$ a month plus another $9.95 which equals 36$ a month plus another 9.95 for a website that you have no control over so your at 46$ a month x 12 = over $400 a year. For that amount you could save and if you are even the 43% of those who this happens to then you can take care of it at the average $500.00 cost.
I see this whole thing a waste of money. to say the least as I will re-itterate in here Credit card companies will be at work after you report the theft to them. they will be working at finding the criminals along with the FBI and or state police etc. All you have to do is file an affidavit on your credit card(s) and relax. You are not responsible for debt you did not make yourself. If they try to unlegally make you pay you can get a pro-bono lawyer who will sue the company under your name. These lawyers are plentiful since they know they can win against a credit card company.
Point I finally make here is also the likelyhood of being sucessfull as a distributor. I read the quarterly report and seen that if you took all new membership sales then divided them by the total number of associates then you have like .03 associates per person. this means that per the average not one person makes a yearly signup. But what I can tell you is that what is happening is that there is a definae warped sided recuiting here where only a few people are making all the signups. Interesting to me.
What if everybody thought like 'Dave' and the naysayers.
Let's 'think' people. What if all the great thinkers of the world thought like 'know it all Dave'and the rest of the negative naysayers? What if Thomas Edison - Henry Ford - Theodore Roosevelt- Luther Burbank - George Eastman- Charles M. Schwab and Harland Stonecipher thought that it couldn't be done. If they listened to their friends and families and other losers who weren't doing anything with their lives,where would the world be? People like 'Dave' and the negative naysayers on this board would never pick up a book like 'Think and Grow Rich', 'Rich Dad Poor Dad' 'Unlimited Power' 'I Can' '7 Habits of Highly Successful people' 'Your Subconcious Power' - 'Awaken the Giant within' ' How to win friends and Influence people' 'Eat That Frog'. Tim complains because we dream. Should we stop dreaming? Should we give up trying because of these 'Dream Stealers'? Should we tuck our tails between hour legs and not help people and head back to a desk in the corner at work? Should we return to trading time for dollars? Should we give up our freedom and head back to being bullied by our boss? At a job somebody tells you how much money you can make...when to go to lunch..when you come to work...when you go home ...when you can take a break...Freedom means you have more choices.... This notion of Job security is a joke! If the company you work for is mismanaged or it gets in trouble they just downsize you. (fun huh) Dave and naysayers, 'WE DON'T WANT SOMEBODY TELLING US HOW MUCH MONEY WE CAN MAKE! OR WHETHER OR NOT WE HAVE A JOB TOMORROW OR NOT! (see post: 1-13-2005) We're in the information age...The richest people in the world build Networks! Television Network - Telephone Network - A Network of service stations. The rich Build Networks...everybody else looks for work. Naysayers don't understand that a Business is an asset.'If you're not leveraging somebody, Somebody is leveraging you'. None of you geniuses have explained the failier rate of starting a traditional Business (95% of Businesses fail in the first 3 years). Shouild all small Businesses stop trying? 'Think'
Naysayers serve a purpose
What if there were no naysayers? We all would have gone along with Naziism, Communism, Slavery, Segregation, etc. Jay is using an ad hominem attack and attacking the messengers since he knows the facts support the nay sayers. There's nothing wrong with saying NAY to something that's a sham. Just because you oppose some mickey mouse product doesn't mean you oppose every bit of progress that exists. If you really need Legal Services heck out Hyatt and ARAG Direct's plans. You get the same or more for your money and you don't have to go through a brainwashed MLM cult to the plans that are available.
Submitted: 1/18/2005 9:10:16 PM
Modified: 1/19/2005 12:18:43 AMDave
Madison Heights, MichiganU.S.A.
You can't handle the facts
Jay,
It appears to me that you can not handle the facts that I have quoted for you from the SEC filings. These are not my words but the words from the company you represent and defend. It isa pitty that you put down your own company. You write in complete oxymoronic statements. I am not a know it all. But I am a person who can read the facts of SEC filiings and also FTC reports that your company refers to. I am sorry that you can not read these items and make any realizations. All I am doing is stating factoid statemensts.
Jay I challenge you to show me where the hours and out-of-pocket numbers on the Pre-paid legal site come from. Certainly they are not from the FTC report that they quote from in the video about the product. To me that is misleading. I feel that the correct info needs to be put out instead of hyped up numbers that areway out of line so that you can make someone feel as though they need the Identity theft Shield Product.
So, I will look for your next post with the rebuttal about the numbers. Since I am quoting from the same text your company does.
I qoute from another associate 'Ignorance is Bliss' this is the from an associate with the same mentality as you have.
Submitted: 1/19/2005 9:26:53 AM
Modified: 1/19/2005 9:52:32 PMDave
Madison Heights, MichiganU.S.A.
More Nonsense Comparisons
Here I will go over a nonsense claim that Pre-Paid is doing. The comparison of the legal plan vs. my car or medical insurance.
lets look at what you pay
Car insurance: Cost of car insurance varies but for being in a state where you have no fault and you are a good driver no points for 2 cars newer ones in Detroit area it costs about 2,400 a year or less if you shop for it. this is about $200 a month. So, do you need an attorney most of the time no. I just had a accident with someone that pulled out infront of us and we hit them on the side thier fault. Though we needed to get the deductable from the other side. We did a mini tort with the other insurance company and got paid. There were no out of pocket expenses over my monthly cost.
Medical insurance; I work for an employer but I am in a union. We pay nothing for medical cost. I get drugs at 10$ a prescription and most everything I need is free with a cheep 10-25 co-pay. Nothing expensive at all.
Pre-paid; 26 a month covers very little for free andmost at 25% off an attorneys non-regulated non-contractual hourly wage. So could be like 250 an hour -25% is 200 an hour. So what! If you are going to court and you are poor like the video says your bill will still be high.
So, what is this evening out the legal system making it affordable to all with a 26$ an month plan so everyone can get legal help. This is rather a false hope to make people think they are getting some free services. What is not covered for free is Criminal, Family, bankruptcy law. What is free is Civil suits that you are being sue by someone else. Hmmmm, a civil suit. Most of them you are a self defendant in small claims. Would you win with a lawyer? Maybe, maybe not. But I have never been sued by someone else in a civil suit. So, unless you are a trouble maker where you caused grief to someone else then a civil suit would be not needed. So where does this woolly bully start. I know now.
Stonecipher, He was sued in a civil case over his car accident. Well lets see. If you are being sued over your car accident there are attorneys the insurance company has. But what if it was over the amount insurance covers then. then you will go to court over that.
Other exagerations
1. I need to pay $26.00 to talk to an attorney?
2. They only review for free 1 document a year.
what could you have more than that unless you are a buisness.
3. two letters sent for free. You can write your own letter. Letters from lawyers me only one thing to the other side. We will Sue. That means you will need money. Why Sue because letters sometimes don't get you to get the actions of others to change until they are sued.
In final thought. Is it worth $26.00 a month. No. why becuase you get not much that a regular person can't get for free. Plus in comparison to other insurances with pre-paid you will have large costs for uncovered things unlike medical ins where most everything is covered. You might say well, you get your traffic offenses a lawyer shows up for you. Let me ask you. If you are speeding and get caught pay the fine. live up to your getting caught. Don't sham the system. What you are doing is saying I can commit a offense against a law and never worry about it I have a lawyer. To me that is not a great person.
Submitted: 1/19/2005 9:50:59 AM
Modified: 1/19/2005 11:03:38 PMDave
Madison Heights, MichiganU.S.A.
$26.00 a month for talking?
One last comment then I will stand by for rebuttals.
They are saying 'Equal Justice for all' Thecompany says that for equal access to happen the cost has to be lower so that people can afford the attorneys and that most people can not afford to even talk to them. Saying that attorneys charge for consultations.
I personally know that if you used the phone book you can find in your local area about 12 layers that will give you a free consultation face to face to talk to you about your situation before you retain them. This is done so the attorney can review your information to see if he/she wants to represent you and or also if you want them representing you. There is NO charge at that time. The movie on the web site is stating that most people never even visit an attorney because of the cost. Does that mean the cost of the consultation? No, it means that the costan hour of the services. I will state again that $200.00 is alot of money. That is about the 25% discount for cases that most of us will have since Pre-paid only gets you a 25% discount for the most typical cases Family law, bankruptcy and Crimnial cases and also Sueing others.
So the high cost of a retainer and hourly rates is still there plus the costof $26.00 a month. Is this really evening out the ability of a richer person to get an attorney vs. a person with no money up front? NO. I suppose that is why there are Pro-Bono and other lawyers who like helping out financially strapped people.
What this whole Pre-Paid is about is getting you to pay $26.00 a month for services that you might not need. like Reviewing Documents. like have you ever did a home mortage. I paid attention and did not pay for hidden cost. That is why they have the 'Truth in lending act form'.
Thing is here Pre-paid takes advantage of the people who never seem to research or comprehend reallity. This proves itself true but the associates who seem to never have any common sense of reallity. They make statesments without thinking them out and call others names like a know it all or ignorant person etc. Well you know I am certain that you can fool some of the poeple some all of the time but I am not being fooled here. I will defendmy stance to openly show how this company works so people are not wasting money.
It's A CHOICE...!!
It is a CHOICE to purchase the PPL Membership and/or Identity Theft Shield. So, be that as it may, I would like to know whether or not, the 'Daves' and 'Jamals' have protected themselves and their families with another form of legal/identity theft protection? If, so what is it?
Hint: if you REALLY believe your bank and/or credit union is going to help YOU with YOUR identity theft problem, you're WRONG..!! Ever use Goggle? Try doing a search for identity theft and see how many articles destroy the ridiculous garbarge being spouted here. Check what the FTC says about Identity Theft!!
Jamal says that with Hyatt and ARAG Direct plans, 'you get the same or more for your money'. What he fails to say is that he HAS one of these plans in place. He starts off by saying 'if you really need legal services.' My question to him is, when is THAT??? It's better to have the services and not need them than to need them and not have them...WHEN a problem occurs...!! It's isn't IF but WHEN a problem occurs...!!
Also, do those other services (ARAG and HYATT) use AV-rated attorneys? Do YOU even know what an AV-rated attorney is?? Is it a closed-panel or open-panel network that these other companies are using? Do those plans provide nationwide AND Canadian coverage?? Is there UNLIMITED telephone calls and document reviews and UNLIMITED letters written on your behalf? Do they provide a WILL and updates at no additional cost? Do YOU have YOUR Will done?
Is there a waiting period with those other companies such as 6 months BEFORE someone can access the service and/or do they lock you into a two-year contract?? Better check that out...!!
Pre-Paid Legal's memberships are activated the same day with only the Motor Vehicle section requiring a 15-day waiting period and the membership is MONTH-to-MONTH...!! Gee...I guess you 'experts' forgot to mention that..!!
Does the majority of you 'experts' on this message board have some form of medical, automobile, and home-owners insurance? Why do you have that, hopefully it's not because its the law..??
Again, having the PPL Membership as well as the Identity Theft Shield is being PROACTIVE...!! See, when a legal and/or identity theft problem happens, I have the piece of mind of knowing, I put these plans in place regardless of what other people think or do. In most cases, other people DON'T DO ANYTHING or try and handle it themselves.
As for the Business Opportunity, Dave, Jamal, DON'T DO IT!! No one is going to beg you nor convince you of anything otherwise and that's because we don't have to..!! If you enjoy what you are doing and love working for someone else so that THEY can leverage your time and efforts, then that's great!! Keep doing it, they'll be living their dreams soon if they aren't already!! They appreciate you!! Either get a leveraged income or BE leveraged..!! It's THAT simple..!!
Here are some important facts for you 'experts' on this message board:
'The Company's total active membership premium in force increased approximately 7% during 2004 and represents the 12th consecutive year of increasing its membership base and membership fees. Additionally, the membership persistency rate (defined as the number of memberships in force at the end of a 12 month period as a percentage of the total of memberships in force at the beginning of such period, plus new memberships sold during such period) has increased for six consecutive quarters from 67.6% as of June 30, 2003 to 71.0% for the latest 12 month period ended December 31, 2004.'
'12 consecutive years of increasing membership revenue! Not bad at all. 6 consecutive quarters of increasing persistancy up to 71%.'
BAD NEWS FOR 'EXPERTS'
There was no mass run by longs (long-term investors) to close out shares after membership announcement=
1) Share price will remain high and probably will go higher = Some nice interest payments to make
2) 50 cent dividend is coming due 1/14/05 (got mine!!)
3) PPD cash flow should be good for qtr = expect another nice qtrly dividend soon
4) New law makes it tougher to short shares = SEC is watching you
5) PPD's victory on counter claim, with backing of Chamber of Commerce, may be announced soon
6) It doesn't appear that any lawsuit cases against PPD will come into play in the near future
7) And finally= PPD CASH FLOW, PPD CASH FLOW, PPD CASH FLOW
12/31/03 total active members were 1,418,997
12/31/04 total active members were 1,451,700
Almost a 33,000 membership INCREASE
'EXPERTS' WANT YOU TO BELIEVE PPD IS NOT GROWING!!
Sure the active legal service membership base only grew by about 10 thousand members in the year 2004!!
NOTE- 'EXPERTS' would like you to believe that everybody that quit this year just signed up but every business especially sales organizations run into time periods where they are losing business from some customers while gaining business from other customers.
HOWEVER, 'EXPERTS' don't want to talk about the fact that Prepaid Legal has added a whole new service since 10/1/03 which has had phenomenal growth. That date was the first date that anyone could sell the new Theft ID add on or stand alone product. Kroll has to be ecstatic with the growth that Prepaid Legal has provided them with. At 12/31/04 there were-
283,889 Active 'add on' IDT memberships
26,993 Active 'stand-alone' IDT memberships
ALL ADDED WITHIN THE LAST 15 MONTHS
Let's look at what this alone adds to annual revenues-
283,889 X $9.95 monthly fee X 12 months = $33,896,346 in annual revenue
26,993 X $12.95 monthly fee X 12 months = $4,194,712 in annual revenue
OVER $38 MILLION in revenue growth just from adding one additional product.
Since commissions are paid up front, this has to have made a lot of the PRODUCTIVE sales associates very happy but has had the effect of actually reducing 2003 & 2004 net income as well as cash flow.
Company Overview:
*1.4 million ACTIVE members
*Audited by Grant Thornton
*51.8 percent - Year 1 Retention rate for ALL members.
*60.0 percent - Members used their service.
*80.0 percent - Free Will workbook completion.
*12 Years of continued growth in membership fees.
*12 Years of continued growth in active membership base.
*$119 million in gross revenue in 1997
*$160 million in gross revenue in 1998
*$196 million in gross revenue in 1999
*$255 million in gross revenue in 2000
*$303 million in gross revenue in 2001
*$350 million in gross revenue in 2002
*$360 million in gross revenue in 2003
Maybe Thomas Edison says it best - 'Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like WORK.'
Remember it's a choice to have Pre-Paid Legal, Kroll Worldwide and about 2,700 attorneys nationwide in your back pocket!! I'm always reminded of that when I go to the courthouse and see the long line of 'experts' paying traffic tickets. Yep, it's better to plead guilty and acknowledge those points on insurance and of course the increased rates. Yes, THAT is a much better option.
People that SEE the need for this membership and/or business opportunity are generally those that are trying to go places, like UP in their lives AND generally those that don't see the need for this membership and/or business opportunity are going nowhere but DOWN in life....or are comfortable at where they and their 5 friends are in life......
BROKE!!
Submitted: 1/20/2005 12:19:38 AM
Modified: 1/20/2005 10:10:48 PMDave
Madison Heights, MississippiU.S.A.
Again more falsehoods
As you know posting happens midnightish Pacific so when I post I have to wait 24 hours to see a rebuttal. So I wrote just about the claim that they are comparing medical insurance to PPD. There is no comparison.
To answer the associate Lajon:
I suppose that Lajon has never had anyone fraudently use his credit card. I suppose those fraudulent chargesare just written off and the criminals that frauded you and the credit card companies, Banks, DMV's etc. are not going to ever be chased. A line that associates use is that the police have no time. But I know for a fact that I have had someone use my card fraudulently which is a ID theft. There was no out of pocket expense and my banks fraud department gave me back my money after I signed an affidavit and they went investigating.
What these so salesmen and women want you to think is that nobody but them are going take care of you. But I would remind them that the money charged up on your credit report/card is not yours but credit card or bank 'X''s. That is a federal crime. Also after you report the incident you are not responsible for the amount and in most cases a new account number with your old balance will be made.
The Identity theft shield plan is not Proactive. Proactive means that you are doing something now all the time. Also this plan will not stop the theft. See what you are paying for is a service of Kroll to help you not spend time on your ownbut instead you sign a power of attorney to them to act in your case to sign on your behalfand file paperwork such as affidavits and do name searches in the database for duplicate names. Even though to me that is a waste since there could be many people with your same name out there ligitamately living.
You get credit monitoring. 'Monitoring' is waiting for something to occur or watching. then when something occurs the time it takes you to find out is less and less damage is done. This is like a security guard who can not arrest you but call the police.
My question next is about memberships. The number of memberships is not growing at all in reality.
' For the year 2004, new sales associates enrolled remained consistent at 107,552 compared to 108,557 enrolled during 2003 '-(This means that that there are less associates this last year)
' new memberships produced decreased 7% to 624,525 from 671,857' -(These numbers also account for IDT only members so as we see there is a downslope now.)
Here is some inflated numbers...
'The Company's active memberships increased 2% during 2004 from 1,418,997 to 1,451,700.'- (in reallity there were only 1,424,707 but the company adds IDT stand alone actives to this to make it the larger number.)
Here is the kicker. Which Lajon and Jay must have skipped out on math class.
I have in 2003 ending 1,414,746 active members. I sign up 624,525 + 2,039,271. But the 2004 end total active members is 1,451,700 total. What happened to 587,571 memberships? Did they quit? that is like 25% of the whole people or what would be the amount almost of for every one person you sign up almost one person quits before the end of the year. Yet you call this growth?
Submitted: 1/20/2005 12:25:16 AM
Modified: 1/20/2005 10:16:50 PMDave
Madison Heights, MichiganU.S.A.
You compare the falsehoods made
This is the link to the following; http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050104/datu043_1.html
'Pre-Paid Announces 4th Quarter & Year-End Membership and Recruiting Results
Tuesday January 4, 5:11 pm ET
4th Quarter Membership Sales Up 2%; 4th Quarter Sales Associates Recruited Up 26%; 2004 Active Memberships Up 2%
ADA, Okla., Jan. 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc. (NYSE: PPD - News): today reported new memberships produced and new sales associates enrolled for the fourth quarter and for the year ended December 31, 2004. During the 4th quarter of 2004, new sales associates enrolled increased 26% to 41,829 from the 33,068 enrolled in the 4th quarter of 2003 and new memberships produced increased 2% to 156,896 from 153,501. For the year 2004, new sales associates enrolled remained consistent at 107,552 compared to 108,557 enrolled during 2003 while new memberships produced decreased 7% to 624,525 from 671,857. The Company's active memberships increased 2% during 2004 from 1,418,997 to 1,451,700. From the 3rd quarter of 2004 to the 4th quarter of 2004, the Company's active memberships increased by 7,954 memberships.
Now read lajons:
'The Company's total active membership premium in force increased approximately 7% during 2004 and represents the 12th consecutive year of increasing its membership base and membership fees. Additionally, the membership persistency rate (defined as the number of memberships in force at the end of a 12 month period as a percentage of the total of memberships in force at the beginning of such period, plus new memberships sold during such period) has increased for six consecutive quarters from 67.6% as of June 30, 2003 to 71.0% for the latest 12 month period ended December 31, 2004.'
Lajon do you read the news? Common man get with it. get your statistics right.
Submitted: 1/20/2005 9:16:29 AM
Modified: 1/21/2005 12:55:06 AMDave
Madison Heights, MichiganU.S.A.
Lajons Numbers ..what about the 1/2 million that quit?
Lajon posted This statement quoted from the SEC filing;
'The Company's total active membership premium in force increased approximately 7% during 2004 and represents the 12th consecutive year of increasing its membership base and membership fees. Additionally, the membership persistency rate (defined as the number of memberships in force at the end of a 12 month period as a percentage of the total of memberships in force at the beginning of such period, plus new memberships sold during such period) has increased for six consecutive quarters from 67.6% as of June 30, 2003 to 71.0% for the latest 12 month period ended December 31, 2004.'
The 7% is the membership fee not membership growth. Also Lajon says active add-on IDT memberships ended totaling 283,889. This means only about 10% of the people signing up get it. Not to remember another tensof thousands drop it as they quit everything all together. This I pointed out before. For every new member they get another member leaves.
It is interesting for the company to quote you that the who new memberships and actives equal a 71% increase. Whoooooopppppieeeeee. So what! what about the 1/2 million that quit?
They do not count this. All I can say is I am a Nay sayer and this company is a RIPOFF that is why it is is at www.ripoffreport.com
Rebuttals for 'EXPERT' Dave
Yes, Dave let's look at your car insurance - Does your car insurance cover Manslaughter, Involuntary Manslaughter, Negligent Homicide or Vehicular Homicide? What happens when they will not pay your claim? Explain 'Mini-Tort'.
Oh, just for the record - Your Provider Attorney will defend YOU or YOUR COVERED family members when you are charged with Manslaughter, Involuntary Manslaughter, Negligent Homicide or Vehicular Homicide at NO ADDED COST to you! As a Pre-Paid Legal member, YOU AND YOUR COVERED family members will receive advice and assistance with moving traffic violations - ANYWHERE IN THE U.S.
Medical Insurance - Since you don't like a $26 a month attorney, what does your 'cheap $10 - $25 co-pay' doctor look like? How much due diligence did you do on THIS doctor PRIOR to choosing him or her? Is there a message board with your findings that we can all review?
Lawsuits cause tremendous emotional and financial stress. The PPL membership offers assistance when you need it most. Unfortunately guilt or innocence isn't the issue - you still have to DEFEND yourself if a lawsuit is brought against you (and you don't have to be a 'trouble-maker' to get one). Ever hear of frivlous lawsuits??
Let's look at some situations that happen everyday and since Dave is our resident 'EXPERT', let's ask him how he would resolve these issues without the use of an attorney and WHY? Dave, what if you were involved in one of the following situations and you were a defendent in a civil lawsuit?
- Damages from your car wreck EXCEED the coverage under your automobile policy coverage.
- You're involved in a landlorde-tenant or property line dispute.
- Your tree limb crashes onto the neighbor's house.
- You're responsible for your aging parents and a dispute arises with family members or others.
What's next,....oh let's see what someone in the state of Michigan DOES receive with our membership in regards to phone calls and letters but first let deal with some things first:
Dave says 'I need to pay $26.00 to talk to a lawyer.' It never ceases to amaze me how these 'EXPERTS' want the BEST lawyer for their situation and they never ever have BEST lawyer funds..ANYWHERE! But when presented with a $26/month membership and 25 percent discount off of an attorney's fees...it isn't enough?? NONE of these 'EXPERTS' EVER have any other legal and/or identity theft protection in place either because they weren't PROACTIVE in getting it AND they think these same $200+/hour attorneys with mortgages and bills to pay are going to spend time with someone who has never used an attorney before over the phone (taking all the time in the world) - FREE OF CHARGE..!!Why are they even talking about a pro-bono or 'other attorneys?' What exactly does one get with these pro-bono or 'other attorneys'? I'll take an AV-RATED LAW FIRM ANYDAY...but then again I was PROACTIVE in getting the memberships.
PREVENTATIVE LEGAL SERVICES IN MICHIGAN.
(Dave, grab a dictionary and look up the word: UNLIMITED).
Phone Consultations on UNLIMITED Matters
As a member, you can consult with your Provider Law Firm toll free by phone on any personal or business-related matter. Just call your Provider's toll-free number during regular business hours when you have a legal problem or question. UNLIMITED!
Phone Calls and Letters...
A phone call or letter from your Provider Lawyer can get you the results you want fast. Your Provider Lawyer will recommend a letter or phone call when that is the best step for you. One call or letter PER SUBJECT related matter is FREE with your membership (UNLIMITED). Plus, you'll receive two business letters each year at no additional cost! Additional assistance for same subject at 25% discount. Dave says 'you could write a letter yourself.' What do you think happens to the letter you write as opposed to one written by an attorney, with an AV-RATED LAW FIRM, on your behalf on the LAW FIRM's letterhead? Try it..!! Without our membership, these same letters cost around $200 or more AND there are charges for the number of pages in the letter too. So THAT on top of the attorney's hourly fee (at 100 percent)....costly!!
Contract and Document Review...
You can have an UNLIMITED number of personal legal documents, up to ten pages each, reviewed by your Provider Lawyer. Included each year is one business document review at no additional cost! Your Provider Lawyer will analyze the documents and suggest changes for YOUR benefit before you sign. When you sign ANYTHING, you are using an attorney...just not yours!! Those contracts and documents were drafted by THAT individual's or company's attorney on THEIR behalf to protect THEM!! Dave, how is it that you were able to UNDERSTAND what your mortgage company's attorney drafted up? Have you been to law school and are you an expert in all 26 areas of the law, in all 50 states as well? Tell us exactly what the 'Truth In Lending Act Form' is! 'Paying attention' and 'Being careful' is not better than having YOUR attorney review any and all documents prior to signing. If 'being careful' and 'paying attention' were all that is required, why do the rich and famous, successful people use attorneys before they sign anything?
Wills for You and Your Family...
A Will for you at no additional charge, not just a 'simple' Will, but one that meets most Americans' needs - with free yearly reviews and updates. Wills for covered family members are just $20 each; changes and updates $20. Trust preparation is available at a 25% discount. Dave, do YOU have your will done? Regardless of the stage of life you're in married, single, divorced, it's a wise decision to have your will prepared. Without one, for example, it's impossible to leave gifts to friends, organizations or charities. Wills are usually $500 or more without our membership, just so you know.
ALL OF THIS ALONE IS WELL WORTH $26.00 A MONTH, but then again this is the sort of thing that the wealthy have in place AND they are paying alot more!! Again, people that SEE the need for this membership and/or business opportunity are generally those that are trying to go places, like UP in their lives AND generally those that don't see the need for this membership and/or business opportunity are going nowhere but DOWN in life. It's THAT simple..!!
This company doesn't take advantage of anyone and doesn't have to. No one is begging nor convincing anyone to purchase these memberships. If ANYONE wants to pay FULL PRICE for an attorney because they feel that a 25 percent discount isn't enough....I LET THEM..!!
As I've said, it's a CHOICE....!!
Dave, how are you protecting your family against legal and/or identity theft issues without our membership?
Pre-Paid Legal vs. the Truth
Lajon, you need some serious schooling.
1- You're right, having Pre-Paid is a choice. And for 33 years now, America has overwhelmingly chosen to deem it as unworthy of their money, whether they never bought it, or bought then cancelled as pretty much everyone who buys the membership does.
2-It's Google, not Goggle.
3-You associates continue to hide behind IDT. Identity Theft is underwritten by Kroll and can be purchased without purchasing Pre-Paid Legal membership. Kroll simply realized that Pre-Paid Legal has a huge body of associates marketing a worthless membership and saw the potential in allowing them to market a membership actually worth something.
4-ARAG Direct's plan costs less than Pre-Paid's and gives you more. It also includes some IDT. Of course, if you must have IDT there's nothing stopping someone from purchasing IDT and ARAG's plan. And for the record, when Pre-Paid associates drone on about how 80% of Europe has some form of legal membership, it's ARAG they're mostly talking about. For the record I don't have a membership nor am I affiliated with ARAG. But go to their website and compare for yourself.
5-Isn't it lovely how these associates like to think that the only option outside of marketing this service is to work a minimum wage job? What about all of the professionals out there earning a great income and doing whatever it is they've dreamed of becoming (doctor, lawyer, mechanic, pilot, etc)? Few of us ever dreamed of becoming a salesman trying to convince people they need something when they really don't.
6-You can drone on about the stock all you want but this message board discusses the lack of need for the membership and the joke of an opportunity it provides. No one questions that a company who has several hundred thousand associates paying to sell their service and covering all of the advertising costs is going to make a profit.
7-While the memberships did increase from 1.41 mil to 1.45, what you leave out is the fact that over 600,000 memberships were sold in this time frame meaning that 560,000 members cancelled their plans. This proves that Pre-Paid depends on this style of marketing. This is why they were hurting before becoming an MLM.
8-When I went to court to fight a ticket on my own and left without having to pay a dime, the first thing on my mind was “wow I really need Pre-Paid Legal." That was sarcasm.
9-Dave has some great points. And what these associates often leave out is the fact that you only get a basic will with Pre-Paid. Adding to it costs money, so why not just but software that will allow you to make an unlimited number of wills for you and your friends and family, all of which can be updated at your leisure, all for the price of 2 months worth of daily cups of coffee.
Submitted: 1/20/2005 10:47:43 PM
Modified: 1/21/2005 11:30:56 AMDave
Madison Heights, MichiganU.S.A.
The 2003 Annual report numbers
According to the 2003 Annual reportwhich is on Yahoo.com the retention rate is 49% for members the first year meaning if you are an associate 1/2 of your recuits will quit for the average associate. this might not be you but this is the statistics.
Expert Rebuttal
Again, the Pre-Paid Legal Membership, Identity Theft Shield and the Business Opportunity ARE CHOICES..!! Focusing on the number of people that cancelled the memberships AND especially being on this forum is NOT an excuse for NOT protecting your families against legal and/or identity theft problems when they happen!!! Unless your 'school of thought' is to do what other people do because other people do it...!!
In his book The Total Money Makeover, Dave Ramsey cites the Wall Street Journal as reporting that 70 percent of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck. He also cites a poll from Parenting magazine which found that 49 percent of Americans could cover less than one month's expenses if they lost their income. The 2003 MetLife Study of Employee Benefits Trends bears this out, reporting that 52 percent of employees live paycheck-to-paycheck. The surprise? Among high-earners ($75,000 or more), an alarming 34 percent claim this distinction. The survey found that 87 percent of low earners ($30,000 or less) do so.
More than 7 million Americans already have second jobs, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Nearly three out of every 10 people who hold more than one job say they do so to meet household expenses or pay off debt. [Chatzky, J. (2004, September). Weapons of mass debt destruction. Money, p. 57.]
This is the CHOICE that I was speaking of. It's smarter to work several jobs and take time away from important things like family and still live paycheck to paycheck and still not be able to keep $26 or $35.95 in a checking account to pay for a membership(s). People cancel this service because (1) they don't use it so they feel they don't need it or (2) it's to take care of their immediate issue - and then cancel because they feel don't need it. They also NEED the money to pay for other bills. Either case THAT is their CHOICE as it is a month-to-month membership with no lock-in contract like 'other legal services.' One STILL needs to have these memberships in place regardless of their financial situation. It's a CHOICE to keep these memberships OR pay for drugs, porn, alcohol, cigarettes and unused gym memberships.
'Expert' Jamal at least goes to the ARAG website for comparisons but STILL doesn't say whether or not he is using their services...!! What's the problem?? I sure hope there is no 'lock-in' contract language there.
I STILL haven't gotten an answer from either 'Expert' Jamal or 'Expert' Dave on how they are being proactive protecting themselves and their families against legal and/or identity theft issues without our memberships?
Oh, and let's define PROACTIVE - Acting in advance to deal with an expected difficulty; anticipatory:
Here's another question - What did 'Expert' Jamal and 'Expert' Dave have in place to protect their families against legal and/or identity theft PRIOR to Pre-Paid Legal Services...???
I love this statement from 'Expert' Jamal - 'Isn't it lovely how these associates like to think that the only option outside of marketing this service is to work a minimum wage job? What about all of the professionals out there earning a great income and doing whatever it is they've dreamed of becoming (doctor, lawyer, mechanic, pilot, etc)? Few of us ever dreamed of becoming a salesman trying to convince people they need something when they really don't.'
Being in sales is an honorable profession. You may or may not realize it but you have to sell yourself to someone each and everyday in some endeavor. Do you pay for and drink bottled water? Why? Water is FREE!! Who told you tap water was bad?
I have yet to see one naysayer say, 'I don't need to market your service or get into network marketing because I already have a leveraged income from multiple streams of income and make millions of dollars already.' Or 'I used to market your service but found another way to get a leveraged income by creating multiple streams of income, you should try this instead because I've been able to help others achieve the same thing.'
I talked to a woman yesterday, who had 3 franchises going AND still wanted to know about Pre-Paid Legal Services, as in her words, 'my husband and I are always looking for more ways to get multiple streams of income.' What about THESE professionals marketing our services, a former lawyer who made $224,000 in 2003 or a former US Federal Marshal who made $176,000 in 2003. There are many more like these individuals!!
How about it 'Expert' Jamal, what are you doing now besides trolling message boards trying to find people who agree with you about this company. Naysayers don't really like to reveal tooo much about what they do for a living either...!! 'Expert' Dave you want to take that question?
Statistics from Examining the Work of State Courts and Hospital Statistics and the American Hospital Association illustrate the need for legal services in America.
I think the American Bar Association says it best though - 'Americans have come to view legal assistance as a necessity. The best way for the majority of Americans to be able to assure themselves of legal assistance when they need it... is through a prepaid legal plan.'
Basically, who cares what a couple of 'EXPERTS' have to say about anything in regards to this company, when you have THIRD-PARTY CREDIBILTY from individuals and organizations with more credibilty and resources to throughly check out the company and its leadership....backing you. Who you ask...well try the National Black Chamber of Commerce and the US Chamber of Commerce for starters.
Their opinion means more to me than a couple of 'Experts' trolling the message boards all day, but you guys keep up the good fight...I'll keep marketing the services in an ethical and professional manner and be compensated for it..!!
What is a better use of time???
Submitted: 1/21/2005 4:01:54 PM
Modified: 1/21/2005 9:10:19 PMDave
Madison Heights, MichiganU.S.A.
Rebuttal to Lajon ..Does Pre-Paid cover you when you are guilty for a crime.
Yes, Dave let's look at your car insurance - Does your car insurance cover Manslaughter, Involuntary Manslaughter, Negligent Homicide or Vehicular Homicide? What happens when they will not pay your claim? Explain 'Mini-Tort'.
Does Pre-Paid cover you when you are guilty for a crime. Remember This Lajon all of those above are criminal law which only goves you a 25% discount. as I said before that means that you will need a retainer and pay the large hourly rate. Pre-paid is suppose to even out your abilityto afford an attorney by only payiing $26.00 a month not make you still have to pay for a large retainer and hourly rate most of us can not afford.
Lajon I ask you can you afford for payng for an attorney without the plan? can you afford a 3,000 retainer now?
I suppose lajon has no medical HMO or PPO plan.
but after reading this. 'Medical Insurance - Since you don't like a $26 a month attorney, what does your 'cheap $10 - $25 co-pay' doctor look like? How much due diligence did you do on THIS doctor PRIOR to choosing him or her? Is there a message board with your findings that we can all review?' I ask him how much does he pay for seeing his doctor. Must ben othing because he has none. Lajon most employees of large companies have medical benifits that charge co-pays for office visits. My wife's and my doctor are on the board of William Beumont Hospital. Look the hoispital up. One of the top 10 in the nation. Who is your Doctor? As if this matters.
Point is lost doctor cost has nothing to do with the type of doctor you have.
Lajon, why would a lawsuit be braught against you.tell me? for what have you been sued for recently. Most people get sued in small claims court where lawyers are not needed and the average joe defends themself.
let look at your examples
'Damages from your car wreck EXCEED the coverage under your automobile policy coverage.' -
In michigan you have no fault. Also what car insurance do you have that does not cover what your driving? If you can afford car insurace you have coverage that covers cost of car wreck and property damage and also your medical. I think Lajon you should visit a car insurance agent for a better understanding.
'- You're involved in a landlorde-tenant or property line dispute.' property lines? Depends on surveys that are older than us probably lajon. You get anew survey actually the person who is complaining gets one done. But all surveys are at the city records. But usually in a fenced in area fences have been there a long time and there are city ordances you must look into.
'Your tree limb crashes onto the neighbor's house' Your tree? You own that tree? That is why they have home insurance. Ever hear of a winds knocking down a healthy tree?
Sure you get unlimited letters but as you stated they are not free. Anyhow as I said before how many letters a year are you going to review. Unless you have severe legal issues or have a buisness.
'Again, people that SEE the need for this membership and/or business opportunity are generally those that are trying to go places, like UP in their lives AND generally those that don't see the need for this membership and/or business opportunity are going nowhere but DOWN in life. It's THAT simple..!!' Your being rather ridiculous.
finally
'Dave, how are you protecting your family against legal and/or identity theft issues without our membership?' I pay for attorneys Because I can afford them and also I know credit card companies will take care of my credit report and not faslely report balances that are not mine or else they will be sued by me and pay my attorney fees too.
Lajon tell me will a credit card company follow up on afraud of your account and will they fix your account to be right?
Also If the police look you up for someone using your name 'John Doe' as an alias is that a crime?
RE: Rebuttal to Lajon...
I asked Dave if his car insurance covered Manslaughter, Involuntary Manslaughter, Negligent Homicide or Vehicular Homicide. To which 'Expert' Dave, wanted to know if our plan will cover you if you are guilty of a crime.
Let's help 'Expert' Dave out here, Under Title II of the PPL membership, 'Your Provider Attorney will defend you or your covered family members when you are charged with Manslaughter, Involuntary Manslaughter, Negligent Homicide, or Vehicular Homicide AT NO ADDED COST TO YOU.' Umm, 'Expert' Dave in layman's terms or the English language, it's COVERED FREE OF CHARGE in our membership, as it is NOT COVERED in auto insurances. Check and see if your No-Fault insurance covers that??
'Expert' Dave also wanted to know if I could pay 100 percent of an attorney's fees without the PPL Plan. NO, that's why I have the PPL Membership and WHY would I want to pay 100 percent anyway?? I thought THAT was crystal clear...!!
Since, I no longer work at a company being leveraged by someone else. I don't have Medical Insurance but since I was in the military I have the VA. However, my wife has the PPO coverage from my former employer. Now 'Expert' Dave, wants to imply that he did some due diligence when selecting his current doctor. Sure. But who would 'Expert' Dave call if his medical provider didn't want to pay for something they should pay for.
My wife needed an operation that was deemed better for her situation by the top doctor in the country performing that operation than the one our medical provider performed and because we were PROACTIVE in having this membership we just got a check today from that medical provider for $30,000+ just because of a letter from our Provider Law Firm. YES, the letter (2 pages) was FREE and didn't cost anymore than our monthly premium for the membership unlike the letters people have to get without the membership.
Getting your documents reviewed is HUGE and that can be from purchasing a car or a home or a cellphone!! But you,'Expert' Dave have it down to a science right, 'just being careful and paying attention.' Too bad the Donald Trumps, Bill Gates or other highly successful people aren't as gifted as you are..!! You don't NEED to have a business or serious legal matter to get your documents reviewed!!
'Expert' Dave, now wants to know what lawsuits could be brought up against him, Oh, I dunno job-related or civil or frivlous. No,'Expert' Dave I haven't been sued before but WHEN I am, I have the PPL membership and 335 total hours (295.5 hours of trial time and 39.5 hours of pretrial time). Got a calculator 'Expert' Dave, do the math at $200 - $300 an hour for attorneys fees. I'm glad you have that type of money around in the event of a legal and/or identity theft situation. Oh, and THAT's covered FREE with our membership.
'Expert' Dave, if a tree on your property is responsible for crashing into a neighbor's house you are correct in saying that's why one should have home owner's insurance BUT suppose your homeowner's insurance will NOT pay your claim, THEN who do you call?
'Again, people that SEE the need for this membership and/or business opportunity are generally those that are trying to go places, like UP in their lives AND generally those that don't see the need for this membership and/or business opportunity are going nowhere but DOWN in life. It's THAT simple..!!' No, this is not a ridiculous statement, I see it all the time.
'Expert' Dave says he can afford to pay attorney's fees at 100 percent, and I respect that and I agree to LET HIM..!! The attorneys he's paying will definitely appreciate that. Me, I'll take the over 50 Provider Law Firms, with their 990 dedicated attorneys at AV-RATED law firms NATIONWIDE, EXPERTS IN ALL 26 AREAS OF THE LAW, for the low cost of a cup of coffee a day, but THAT'S my CHOICE...!!
'Expert' Dave feels that his credit union will take care of his credit report and not falsely report balances that are not his or else he'll sue then and get them to pay his attorney's fees too. Well, I sure hope he gets that service from that credit union. Those account(s) are protected but what about everything else, that identifies 'DAVE'??
Brings to mind a story, where a family I know was having Thanksgiving dinner at a restaurant and it was later discovered that the waitress recreated the receipt and gave herself a $100 tip, and then forged the wife's signature. The wife called THE BANK after seeing the charges online, who told her they would hold the charge while they investigated the issue. THE BANK called the restaurant who told the BANK they had a signed receipt. The BANK called the wife and told her the restaurant had a signed receipt and to honor the charges. The wife and husband went to the restaurant and compared the signature on the receipt with the wife's driver's license signature and the restaurant STILL said, 'we have a signed receipt.' Well, it took another FREE letter from our AV-RATED PROVIDER LAW FIRM to that BANK and restaurant to clear the matter up. The restaurant promptly fired the waitress and gave the couple a free dinner, a %50 gift certificate and $60 in cash.
'Expert' Dave, for the record, that couple was me and my wife. Better check and see what your credit union will do for you in regards to protecting your identity there. I'm looking at a brochure for one I'm with and it only gives TIPS AGAINST ID THEFT, not at all what our Identity Theft Shield provides. It's great to have peace of mind with these memberships..!!
But again, it is a CHOICE..!
Submitted: 1/22/2005 3:13:07 PM
Modified: 1/22/2005 9:24:34 PMDave
Madison Heights, MichiganU.S.A.
Lajon Lies
Lajon, if you can please tell me. Was this Federal marshall making this 176,000 from one income of being a federal marshall?
I will wait for your response. The way itis written you are making it soundas if he left his 176,000 a year federal marshall job for pre-paid.
If you tell us the truth here It might bring you more trust with us. Becuase if you don't the next time I rebuttal here you will be exposed with the right numbers about federal salaries of federal marshalls IE your friend could never make that much.
As far as your IDT shield goes. Ihave confindence in the process in place where I will call my credit card company and bank to resolve frauds on credit cards. They do havefraud departments.
Why would you not try this route?
Submitted: 1/22/2005 6:20:26 PM
Modified: 1/22/2005 11:38:06 PMDave
Madison Heights, MichiganU.S.A.
Lajon from Fairfield is an advid poster on message boards.
I found lajon trolling the yahoo web. interestinghecallsus online trolling. He is an advid poster on message boards. It is interesting how some people like to label others while they are doing the same thing. Lajon I get on the message boards because I am someone wanting to a expose ripoffs like yourself.
Interesting that if you are making so much money You are living in a place where has these status;
Median household income: $51,151 (year 2000)
Median house value: $174,700 (year 2000)
Hereis where I live at lajon since you think people who are not selling Pre-paid are low income losers going down. Pssss. I amcertain Jesus a man of the poor would not let people of your thought into heaven.
Median household income: $42,326 (year 2000)
Median house value: $110,600 (year 2000)
So the point I make is I make 75,000 a year and a family income of 100,000. thatis double of where you live. so, if your going upandmaking so much money why not live in a lush neighborhood.
Lajon you have been exposed again I say you trolling rich wannabe.
RE: Lajon Lies....???
'Expert' Dave, I'm not lying to you because I don't have to...!!
The document I'm looking at says, 'he was a FORMER US Federal Marshall. In 2003, his Pre-Paid Legal income was $176,000.
See, third-party credibility always beats conversation AND especially naysaying experts, who THINK they know what they're talking about. Guess what 'Expert' Dave, there are far more examples of individuals such as this making money with our Business Opportunity and helping alot of people. We don't have to beg nor convince anyone of anything about this company.
'Expert' Dave, I don't know what the salaries are of federal marshalls nor do I care. However, this particular gentleman MADE $176,000 in 2003 FROM his Pre-Paid Legal income. THAT is important to me and anyone else wanting to go UP in life using the PPL Business Opportunity as a vehicle to do so..!! If he could do it, anyone can do it..!!
The Big Question, 'Expert' Dave is WHY would this individual LEAVE his employer or even consider being an Associate with Pre-Paid Legal Services PART-TIME while already employed?? Perhaps, THAT is the question YOU should have asked...!! I mean WHY would a former attorney with 6 law offices become a PPL Associate, or a real estate agent or medical manager or postal carrier or former Pro athlete(s) or someone who's recognized as a 'celebrated trailblazer and leader of the multibillion-dollar self-improvement industry.'
See, it's really NOT important what ANYONE thinks who exclusively 'speaks' from a message board all the while being vague about who they are and what they do to for a living...!!
As for your identity theft question, I'm happy that you have protected your CREDIT CARD from identity theft and you have the utmost confidence in the fraud department of your bank and/or credit union. I'll take my chances with my TOTAL identity and NOT just my credit cards by having the backing of experienced professionals (former agents of CIA, FBI and other authorities) from a division of the world's LEADING risk consulting company. Besides the fraud department didn't listen to my wife when we cried 'identity theft.' But once they got that letter from my AV-RATED Provider Law Firm somehow things CHANGED..!!
'Expert' Dave, I'm going to define identity theft for you. Identity Theft is a multi-faceted crime packaged in countless shapes and forms. At its core, it occurs when someone uses information they acquire about an individual without permission -- such as a SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER -- to represent themselves as that person for fraudulent purposes. For example, the criminal might obtain credit cards and loans in someone else's name with no intention of paying the bills. They might open utility accounts, rent an apartment, get a cell phone, get medical benefits, even purchase a car or home in their name. Identity thieves can even commit the unthinkable as in one example: commit a crime in someone else's name, leaving the innocent, unsuspecting victim saddled with a criminal record.
See, 'Expert' Dave, being 'careful and paying attention may not be enough'...even for you..!!
Since, you think I'm lying to you -- Google identity theft and see what comes up. Educate yourself on identity theft. Pre-Paid Legal has a solution for this insideous crime, but remember having these memberships AND peace of mind is a CHOICE...!!
Lajon W
Submitted: 1/29/2005 10:09:43 PM
Modified: 1/29/2005 11:56:29 PMChris
New Carrollton, MarylandU.S.A.
Prepaid legal, truth be told, most will do anything for a buck these days to push up the bottomline.
Nice that these folks are happy with PPL. But most of you who support it, are in it as associates. I'm guessing like agents. But the truth be told, most will do anything for a buck these days to push up the bottomline.
I was told(as was my wife) that the services of the attorney would be like an exclusive club membership. pay my $35/month and get access to an attorney. So I had an issue with my Disablility from my military service and possible discrimination via the Americans with disabilities act. But the attorney wanted a $2,000 dollar retainer fee. hmm, PPL doesn't tell you what you need to be told. plus now in hind site, why would a attorney represent me paying $35/month when they can make thousands from a non PPL member?
Good if you associates are doing well, but don't screw anyone thinking to make it big. it will catch up to you.
FREE legal help alternative
I've read through a lot of these posts and am finding it very interesting that no one has mentioned that there are FREE and legitimate low-cost legal services in all regions of the U.S.
I checked out the website for PrePaid Legal and it does seem that most of the 'services' they offer are consumer based which can be easily handled by your local Legal Aid or other community aid program. There are also community-based organizations for disabled, seniors, minorities, poor, etc. Also, Legal Aids provide A LOT of services for family issues (divorce, custody, domestic violence.) The attorneys and staff are underpaid and overworked but they are caring people who have given up the 'glamour' law jobs to help people. They are not a corporate conglomerate like PrePaid Legal Services is.
You don't need to give up your hard earned money for this company that seems to be preying on those who can least afford it.
Be resourceful and Good luck! And SUPPORT your local legal aid by voting in its favor. The powers that be (specifically, our 'president' is planning to make big cuts in money provided to programs such as these. This will impact YOU!
Chris and Carolyn, you can use public pretenders or legal aid if you're at poverty level
Your right...you can use public pretenders or legal aid if you're at poverty level. What about the middle class?..You get what you pay for. If you can't afford 86 cents a day for your Pre-Paid Legal membership. Legal aid society is for you. If you think paying $50 to $100 bucks a month for cable is more important than knowing your rights, and 75 hours of trial defense time,50 hours of IRS audit service,contract and document review, getting your Will done and 24 hour access to an Atorney in emergency situations. The Pre-Paid Legal membership isn't for you. Good Luck;-)
Identity theft is more than credit
To Dave from Madison Heights, clearing up identity theft is not as easy as you make it seem. The truth is that the vast majority of identity theft cases have nothing to do with credit, they have to do with people committing crimes in your name. For instance, I know a girl who does not have PPL's Identity Theft Shield and a couple of months ago she was arrested for vehicular homicide for an accident that happened in Florida, the catch is that she has never been in Florida, futhermore the girl in the accident was black and she is white. She was the victim of identity theft. Someone had gone out and gotten a license in her name. Credit monitoring sure won't help with that. Do you think the credit bureaus know or care about that? If she had identity theft shield she would have been notified that someone got a license in her name because we monitor the entire identity through contracts with the social security administration, the dmv, and the postal service to make sure no change of addresses are being submitted for you. She is still fighting to be released because of this stolen identity.
On the other hand I know a lady who has identity theft shield and the FBI came to take her into custody for writing bad checks all over the southern U.S. Kroll, through the identity theft shield, had the whole thing cleared up in 2 DAYS! They had even located the lady who stole her identity and began proceedings against her. So when you get pulled over one night and hand your license to the officer and they cuff you because you're wanted in 3 states for writing bad checks, or wanted for vehicular homicide, or a myriad of other things, that the 'one call that's all' attorneys will get out of bed for you like our attorneys do with legal shield. And I hope that the police will take into consideration that you have credit monitoring with all 3 bureaus and are on top of your credit. I hope while you're sharing a cell with America's most wanted that you're comforted by the fact that at least your credit is intact and that your credit cards allow you to put a fraud alert out. Citi Bank isn't going to be protecting you from identity theft while you're sitting in jail.
One other thing, when I started this business I spent nothing on tools. In fact, I never started spending money on tools until AFTER I had become an executive director. Now I just put in an order for $2,000 worth of tools that should last me for 6 months, but this is only because I do a lot of business, plus I make, on average, $8,000 a month. Not too bad for a 19 year old full time college student who has only been in the business for 15 months.
The bottom line: shop around
Bottom line for any consumer who needs legal services: you need to shop around.
The value of PPL really depends on the quality of the provider. Here in California, there is only one provider law firm for the entire state. It is a pretty big firm wiht lots of attorneys and multiple offices. However, even with multiple offices, they might not be convenient for many of PPL's customers.
In many cases, there are plenty of attorneys like me who could meet or beat the prices of PPL attorneys on many services.
Major Money Maker
Hi, I just wanted to add to this that I have just signed a major company here in Central Texas to offer Prepaid legal services to their employees and have made already major bucks. Once this company offers this service to their employees I will be receiving even more money than I can imagine. Prepaid Legal Services has offered me a great opportunity in life and I plan to continue on. Prepaid Legal Services is not for all. I did know when I signed on, however, that I would need to go to meetings and trainings in order to succeed in this business. Perhaps the lady that signed you on was not interested in your needs but in her needs. Usually, the people that get this offer are people that need and can do this business. I love being an independent Associate for Prepaid Legal Services.
Scam Companies smear mud on PPL's good name
The biggest problem with the pre-paid legal services offered is that scam companies occasionally get a hold of a good idea and try to run their own version, which doesn't pay its associates or offer any meaningful coverage to its members. Try to differentiate between the bad companies and the one real one: Pre-Paid Legal, Inc. There are also allegations that PPL (for whom I have been an independent associate for years now and making money at it) is an illegal pyramid scheme. I am going to tell you what I tell almost no one else: Yes, I think it is a pyramid scheme, but not a bad or illegal one. If you look at illegal pyramid schemes, you have to consider what they offer and why they offer it. Most of the time, the product itself is complete crap and your only way to make money is to recruit. With PPL, however, the product has extreme value, is something people will actually USE (probably more often than home, vehicle, and health insurance). The pyramid stucture, in reality, is an EXCELLENT idea, but you must FIRST hve a product that is marketable, useful, and motivating. That is why PPL is a really good thing. Maybe it is a pyramid scheme, but honestly, it probably wouldn't work half as well any other way.
The Good, The Bad and the Ugly.
Greetings All,
I am an associate of Pre-Paid Legal. First i would like to say thank you to all the Bad reports and the Good ones as well. The Bad Reports give us all as associates a prime example of why we should all follow the guidelines of the company when representing it to a prospective client. IF YOU DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION BEING ASKED, LET THE PROSPECTIVE CLIENT SPEAK TO ONE WHO DOES KNOW! So many people get 'fired up' about the opportunity that Pre-Paid Legal is offering that they get in such a hurry to make a sale that they (1) Misrepresent the product by telling a prospective client what they want to hear instead of the facts. Pre-Paid Legal is a service that is offered to someone according to their needs. Represent the Company For what it says it will do. If the Prospective client can find reason to Obtain amembership, then they will buy it. Don't try to convince someone to purchase a membership by false representing the company and it's services because when you do, this sort of thing as we see here happens. (2) They fail to call people with more expierience to answer questions that they can't. It is better to tell someone that you 'don't know' then to say something that is false and will end up causing someone to get mad. Furthermore to the single mom, God Bless You for accepting the challenge of being a single mom. that is no easy job itself. But, Don't blame Pre-Paid Legal because the person that sold you the membership and sponsored you as an associate 'cut bait and ran' when they made the sale to you. If anyone involved in this particular case is reading this, SHAME ON YOU! I have made the commitment to all my associates to do what ever nessesarry to help them acheive their goals. Furthermore, It is myt belief that if an associate has false represented the company in anyway, then they should be removed from the business. I myself do not worry about that. I am a christian and I WILL NOT LIE TO MAKE A SALE!!!! That is my reputation with all who I have been associated with. IF you can not market the memberships without lying then find another line of work. In rebuttal to the gentleman who spent 'so much money on supplies' I don't know what you did wrong. Everytime a sell a membership, I call the company, and they re-stock my supplies at no cost to me and they have done that since day one. I have been paid every single membership that I have sold and recieved every single override that was coming to me. To all who feel like they have been abused by this company, I apologize. The Company did not abuse you... The sales associate who presented it to you abused you. In closing,to anyone who buys ANY insurance, be it a heallth plan or a legal plan, do not buy on 'impulse'. Do a little research and get back to the associate. That is my advice from one associate to a world of consumers. And to All associates who sell Pre-Paid Legal or any other plan, don't pressure the consumer to thinking that the world is going to end if they don't buy 'today'. Give them a chance to research and make their decisions wisely. You will get more referrals to other customers if you are honest, sincere, and patient with a prospective client. Don't talk down to the consumer and dont try to scare them. Present them with the facts to the best of your abillities and leave it at that. Even if they say 'no', they will help you with others. That is my expierience, and I have Proven it to work. God Bless You All.
More Money for Me
To everyone that think this is a rip off or a scheme your absolutly wrong and need to get your facts straight. I'm an Independent Associate and have done all my reasearch for the last 4 years and have found almost 99 percent of the company what it says it is.
Of course nothing is perfect as we all know, but you will be a complete fool to let this oppurtunity pass you by.
If you want to be unsucessful for the rest of your life be my guess, but I have been in four years and have made a six figure income every year. I'm living the life I want to live and me and my family can do what ever we want.
I'm only 22 and will retire by the time i'm 25 my parents can't believe it cause they have work all they life and it took me just a few years and i'm going cruising on my yacht everyday I just recently purchased thanks to pre paid legal. So if you don't think you can make this work for you do me an alot of others a big favorite don't become an independent associate in a few short years when the smoke clears, you will say I blew my chance I knew about PPL and thought it was just another scheme.
I'm not just speaking from a independent associate point of view but a member also I have used this membership and saved thousands in court costs. For the person who says save your money for when you need a lawyer, nobody not even the rich Bill Gates can afford a lawyer for all 50 states and Canada.
Let something happen to you in a different state your lawyer want have clue about that state government and will charge you an arm and leg for them to take their time and learn all about that law. Be my guess and don't sign up for the membership be my guess and don't sign up to be an associate. There is over 300 million people between the U.S. and Canada who will see the vision.
P.S. I thought I would never say this at the age of 22 but I'm rich and I like to give a special thanks to PPL
Going no where
Reading through this long thread reminds me of a debate on abortion. It gets no where! You can throw in news articles, past settled cases, and fancy words to express your intelligence, but in the end, someone is going to have something to say back.
As a newly signed up associate, my opinion stands as followed:
This is a business that recruits any Joe Schmoe who wants to reap benefits with little to no effort. Those are the same exact ones who misrepresent the product and the company, and come onto online reports such as this to go off on a tantrum about how it didn't work out for them. We live in a society where too many people want some magical fairy to heal their wounds because they think they've suffered too long, yet they haven't done a thing on their own to rectify the problem. Yet I do find a lot of the naysayers' points extremely valid, a lot of the 'complainers' seem to fit the above description that I noted. Not necessarily people who posted here, but in general. To present the 'opportunity' as a get-rich-quick scheme is a blatant misrepresentation, and I say shame on those associates who still to this day preach in that sort of manner. I attend PBR's, local seminars, and listen to all the ED's, and even some of them misrepresent the business opportunity with the comfort of having their large homes and expensive cars to back it up. It's in a way comical, but good on them for making it work. If you want a billion dollar business, you have to treat like a billion dollar business. Investing time and some bucks out of your pocket to attend once in a while seminars and purchase extra selling materials. Associates invest money into these things voluntarily. No one tells you that you HAVE to do this, or buy that. At least my team members don't do that to me. I don't agree with the concept that a lot of top associates adhere to: Not trying to do things your own way, but rather duplicating a proven process. That takes away our ability to think outside the box. They instill in our minds that we're running our own business but yet we can't do it our way? Sort of contradictory don't you think? But on the lighter side, no one is going to stop anyone from making the effort to try different things. This is all a process of trial and error. As stated many times before, you have to make it work, not anyone else. Most people get discouraged after the first couple people say 'no,' and quit with nothing but bad thoughts about the company. My EDs tell me, 'stay to get pay.' Just stick through it, and stay around to keep the hard work up. Bottomline, PPL is a legitimate company, with too many associates presenting illegitimate information.
Submitted: 5/4/2005 6:30:46 AM
Modified: 5/4/2005 6:30:46 AMCalvin
Imperial Beach, CaliforniaU.S.A.
To all of our legal experts!!!!!!!!
First, I want to comment on the comments about health, auto, home, and other types of insurance. None of these insurances give you 100% coverage! They all have certain limits of coverage because if they cover everything 100% they would be losing money. (1)Healthcare: You can only have so many visits for a cetain type of illness or ailment that they will cover. There's certain illnesses that health care providers will not cover 100% because they would be losing money so they pay a percentage of it and they rest has to come out of your pocket!
If you had a hospital bill that was $100,000 for example and they only paid 80% that means you still have to come up with $20,000. But, that's why people pay for health insurance. I know I would much rather pay $20,000 vs $100,000. (2) Auto insurance: they only cover you up to certain amounts and after you break the threashold you have to come out of pocket with the money. If your in a accident you can elect to purchase rental reimbursement you first get you policy and that covers up to 40-45 dollars per day up to 30 days. What happens when you reach day 31 or day 45? You're paying that money out of your pocket. Would you rather pay for the whole time of rental or just pay for the 1 or 2 days out of 30 that weren't covered. Do the math!
C'mon people (so called experts) common sense on this thread is at a all time low! (3) Home owners insurance this is my favorite! Look how many people in Florida are homeless because of the hurricanes but they still pay their homeowners insurance. Sure they get a little money but there is alot of those people who got nothing because they weren't covered or the amount of damage exceeded their coverage and the cost to the was still detrimental.
People pay insurance hoping that they never use it. People pay $600-$700 a month for health insurance and still have to pay a 10-15 dollar copay everytime they go to the doctor. If that not a ripoff then what is. But I would much rather pay the 15 dollar copay and not have to pay the $200 bill. Use some common sense would you rather get a discount on the service no matter how little it is or pay full price!....Like I said common sense is at a all time low!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The PPL membership and the IDT services are great. The IDT service does not only monitor your credit but in the event that it's stolen the work to restore it a now extra time or money lost by you.
Cal, San Diego, CA
UNITED STATES NAVY
E-5
It's an insurance product
I am a representative for PPL. However, I have also been a insurance salesperson for about 4 years. I have to say getting into this business was an easy decision for me because I saw the benefits of PPL.
Also, I will have to say that I am very familiar with the setup of the business plan because it is exactly like an insurance business setup. I am sorry for those who were given a misrepresentation, it is not a get rich quick scheme. It works with dedication and hard work, you don't see everyone out there with a profession of sales and if you don't have that in you it is not a good idea to join, however, those who do make it work, make good money.
About the product, just like anything else in life, there are loopholes. You can't buy life insurance expecting the company to pay for your planned death the next day. You get what you pay for, bottom line. It's still a great service.
Past member
Hi I just wanted to give some feedback on my experience with PPL..I was a member on a trial basis, and then cancelled my membership after I found they were no help for me. I lost out on my initial fee, I think it was like 29.00 this was about 5 years a go or less. Anyway I ran across something where I needed some legal help, after contacting PPL, I found that the service I wanted a lawyer for would have costed me more going through ppl than getting a lolcal attorny on my own, they even told me this, that I would be better off and save more money finding my own lawyer due to the fees that would be charged through a referral lawyer from ppl, even after my discount, cause I lived 50 min. from a big city. and after talking to a rep from PPL, also found out what speciffally was covered and what wasn't..and the fees are basically jacked up before your discount so you pay more than finding a lawyer on your own, and mst of the services covered , chances are I would not use , for that matter, hardly anyone would except in few circumstances. That was my experience. But I didnt lose much and learned it was not for me...actually I dont mean to be offensive but wouldn't see where this would hardly pay to have for anyone..Sorry guys, unless it has chaged in the last 3-4 years ..I was going to do the will thing, that was about the only thing that was useful, in my opinion, but I was a little leary there also.
The End to all Naysayers!!!
To all you critics,Naysayers,Know it alls & negative people. I'm sorry to report THE END is here for all of you. All of you please go to your local Borders Bookstore, Crown Books, B.Dalton or any other magazine stand across the United States and pick up the NATIONAL MAGAZINE called 'Success from home'. Featured is our Business PRE-PAID LEGAL SERVICES INC. In almost all the pages of this great Magazine. a 33 year old NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE COMPANY. There's a DVD inside for all of you to finally see the light. If you can't catch the vision from this,you will never get it;-) Our top income earner who makes over $400,000 per month, yes I said per month is featured.(residual income) Robert Kiyosaki author of 'Rich Dad Poor Dad'. Is also in the magazine. Just another note....Robert Shemin... author of 'Secrets of a Millionaire Real Estate Investor' and 6 other best selling Real Estate Books is a Pre-Paid Legal Associate(clue). Fellow PPL Associates. Ignore this Cancer. The cure is here. Proof on the magazine stands now. We are right!!! they are wrong.... THE END
Thanx for putting this to rest, Jay
I was really on the fence regarding PPL. Thank you Jay for definitively putting an end to my confusion.
How can I argue with paid endorsements from a magazine titled after a spam-email subject line? I'm sure the CD is the icing on the cake. In my mind, extended commercials are the best way to really learn what a company is all about.
And you say Robert Kiyosaki is also featured? How could anybody still say that PPL might not be so great? Come on now people, Kiyosaki is one of the few people smart enough to recognize that an Amway distributorship is the best business opportunity currently available! Truly a business genius.
I also believe that placing one's faith in anecdotes is the REAL key to success. For example, when I am shopping for weight loss products, I pay CLOSE attention to how much weight the people in the commercials have lost, and how fast they did it. Then I buy the product supported by the most grandiose claims. That's the only way to be sure that you are buying the best product. People who say that such claims are deceptive have a vested interest in my obesity and I refuse to listen to them, because they just want me to stay fat.
Anybody who calls me naive is a dream stealer. I wish people would just be honest and tell me that they are JEALOUS of the success that I have not yet attained. But, oh well, 80 percent of society is too lazy to ever achieve true success. They'll be serving me hamburgers as I cruise through the drive-thru in my Rolls Royce.
It's not really that big of a deal
well i don't think 50 dollars is really that much money to be an 'associate'.
36 a month for a half-way decent service. it has to do something for the suscriber.
like what was said before with the gym analogy, cable tv is pretty much worthless. i don't think michael jordan has any idea what the new 'jordan's' look like, but no one seems to care about that.
i don't believe that there are really any great deals. the consumer is constantly getting ripped off by other consumers. it's a viscius cycle.
my biggest worry is that i would be selling friends and family members a worthless service. but i don't believe this service is worthless. it might not be the second comming of christ, but what is?
What's this about???
Apparently Prepaid Legal is a legitimate company and has the permission to operate in selected states; with the approval of the Secretary of State for those states in which it conduct such businesses. If any company ignores consumer rights then it may be subjected to actions from the Attorney General of such state.
To the consumer, remember to exercise every purchase with the 'buyers beware' concept; often, if it sounds too good to be true...In addition, Prepaid is simply a service which offers certain benefits to its participants, that's you. If you don't need it, or foresee its usage, then you probably wouldn't become a customer. One may think that Prepaid is a rip-off scheme but I would caution you that the business simply has an excellent business plan, marketing plan, leadership, and sales force. Sure, as a consumer, you should feel obligated to report abuses and irregularities. Finally, do you remember what your teacher in high school said about 'there is no free lunch?' Well, no even when you go to church there's is no free-lunch; and Prepaid Legal is a business which is obligated to its shareholders. Finally, remember when you bought your first automobile? Well, you were probably so excited about the transaction that it really didn't matter what was listed in the 'fine' prints; however, when you found that your friend received a better deal on the same, or similar vehicle, you may have felt somewhat deflated emotionally. Simply ask yourself, did you take the car back to the dealership, decided that the overall value was worth it, or to blame the salesman? I would suggest that you simply make informed decisions based on the facts.
Right on, sort of
Nigel, your advice is solid, but it seems as though you've fallen prey to the 'it happens all the time so it can't be a scam' mentality.
That aside, excellent analysis.
Tim's V's still dumb, 40 million people had their credit card information stolen
A man once said 'you can't overcome dumb' I agree !. 40 million people had their credit card information stolen.....'Saturday LA Times'. Lets all deal with Identity Theft and Legal problems Tim Valpraiso's or whatever his name is way. 'dumb dumb dumb dumb'
Tim Valaparaiso (remember?) You haven't done anything that is as great
Tim Valaparaiso a.k.a 'Dream Stealer' I was right. You haven't done anything that is as great as a Pre-Paid Legal Services Inc. Ok you've overcome some mental challenges that could have been avoided if you stayed away from drugs. It was your choice. Did you help anybody? No...It was all about yourself wasn't it? To say we have a great product and turn around and bash the Business model doesn't make a bit of sense does it?. The Business wouldn't work if they weren't both great together.
Do you think a great pioneer in the Legal industry like Harland Stonecipher would create a Business plan that doesn't help people when the only way the product will survive is by the Sales force? It doesn't make any sense does it? The bottom line is when and if you ever help over 50 people become Millionaires then you can 'Dream Steal' and offer your negative opinion. Tim you compare us to a Mcdonalds employee's that cap out at 8 or 9 bucks an hour? That's a joke. Our income potential is unlimited!! There is no cap. Which makes it a better opportunity than even being a Lawyer who has to spend 12+ hours a day for $60,000 a year.
After Taxes $3,500 a month with no Free time. The problem I see with you Tim is that New people who are just now trying to see if they could have some hope for a change in their life may listen to your negativity and therefore close their eyes to posabilities of succeeding and changing the quality of their lives.
Thus you become a 'dream stealer'! You stole their Dreams without anything that you can offer them to replace what you stole. Not a thing. Do you have unlimited income potemtial as an Attorney? You don't do you? Your income is based on how many poor souls can fork out $200 to $400 an hour and that''s the exact reason why Pre-Paid Legal services Inc. was formed. ' To help people'. Proof:
Have an associate with Pre-Paid Legal give you a Profiles of Success Book. It's a Phone book size book with over800+ people earning between $100,000 & $3,000,000 a year. I think that's proof.
Could you teach me to argue as effectively as you do?
Another rock solid rebuttal. How could I even begin to argue with such a literary masterpiece?
I see you have invested some of your millions in a class on effective communication and argument.
It's nice to see that you had some money left over after paying to read your own company's advertisements.
By the way, I was going to buy a copy of 'success from home' magazine, but some guy from Nigeria needed my money for a very promising investment. After I receive my trunks full of monies from him, I'll run out to Borders and pick up a copy of Success From Home.
original problem 'iffy'
telemarketing company owner should know his agreement was with an independent associate not a corporation in Oklahoma. His attempt to collect from a business entity he had no agreement with is illogical, unreasonable, and in my opinion possibly manipulative. I have been an independent associate with prepaid legal. I have no complaints. Indeed, some of the legal advice has been invaluable. If I had been a member all of my life I would have saved thousands and thousands of dollars with nothing more than answers to my legal questions over the phone. When people find something is not perfectly easy they have a tendency to blame everyone and everything...anyone and anything--except themselves. Actually, it sounds like the the original report filer would do well to have had a prepaid legal membership to access.
Submitted: 6/28/2005 12:07:04 PM
Modified: 6/28/2005 12:07:04 PMJason
Albuquerque, New MexicoU.S.A.
You should have Pre Paid Legal
To the victim of the PPL agent who hired their firm to do telemarketing for him, if you had Pre Paid Legal you would have received your money by now. I'm truly sorry that you were burned by an unethical individual who apparently has no honor. This is sad because this is not what I represent when it comes to Pre Paid legal. To those complaining about how they were 'tricked' into believing that all they had to do was sit home and collect money without any outside effort marketing the product, you should not even try to be in business for yourself. You are obviously not smart enough to make decisions of a business nature if you thought you weren't going to have to put forth any effort. Wake Up! Nothing in life is free and anything that is worth having is worth working for. There are no 'Get Rich Quick' plans that work. The only time success comes before work is in the dictionary. I feel no pity for you or your situation because you deserve what you get. Good luck finding a business that will allow you to sit at home and do nothing while you collect money. As for the training, if you want to be qualified and credible at anything in this world, you probably should be trained on it by someone, dont you think?
Happy with Pre paid legal
I have been very happy with Pre Paid Legal! It has been my dream job! I can stay at home with my kids, be a mom and still provide for the family. I am a part of a strong team that really makes sure that clients and team members are also happy at the end of the day. You can not sign up and expect a case full of money. You do have to put in time and WORK but you control your own time put in. I do get paid daily and I get it wired to my account (I have never waited for checks in the mail). I have also been thanked by clients for the service. I have also used the membership and have been very happy with the results. Thank you Pre paid Legal for thinking of such a great idea for people to be able to work from home and actually sell a GREAT product!
This Business Isn't For The Average Guy
I am a 6+ year Independant Associate with PPL Services. My background is in Insurance and Financial Services. I truly understand Network Marketing and commissioned sales. The average person without this type of background or similar should probably reconsider entering into areas of sales where much skill, time and self generated cash is required to win. This company has an excellent marketing program and the product is the best I've ever seen. Most of my customers have the service and would not think about giving it up. They know how it works and what their benefits entail. If in doubt, they know how to pick up the phone and call either myself, PPL or their provider attorney's office. As for those people who have had a bad experience with the plan, well the only thing I have to say is be careful who you choose to go into business with, check them out first as well as the company history. Give yourself a good check up as well by asking yourself some hard hitting questions. Am I able to financially pursue a CAREER, Not a JOB, but a CAREER in Prepaid Legal? Then ask yourself if you are Willing to do what it takes to WIN at this business, i.e., attend meetings, purchase materials for YOUR SUCCESS, go see people and explain properly the company, plan and it's business opportunity. Then finally please ask your self, WHAT HAVE I EVER WON AT IN LIFE AND AM I EQUIPPED TO BE IN BUSINESS FOR MYSELF AT THIS TIME IN MY LIFE. If you can truly answer yes to all of these questions, then you may be a good canidate for PPL OR ANY OTHER NETWORK MARKETING COMPANY. Unfortunately, most people are not suited to work independantly and on commission, they should consider working for others and taking instructions. I am not saying this as a put-down but as a wakeup call for those who want everything but are not really wanting to do TOO MUCH to get it. There is no perfect business, company, person, or situation. You must first find happiness, success and the determination within yourself to ACHIEVE, WIN AND STAY IN THE RACE!! THE KEY IS NOT TO EVER GIVE UP, KEEP WORKING UNTIL YOU GET A BREAKTHROUGH.
pre-paid legal is a rip off all in all
I signed up for a membership because the 'sales agent' told me that there were lawyers in my area. When I reveived my membership packet the lawyer that she said was close to my house was 100 miles away from me.. When I called them back they told me to contact the lawyer that they had given me to see if there is any lawyers closer to me. Little did I know that since I did that they will not refund my money. They said that I used their services. How in the hell do you all sales agents consider that using my membership? I was lied to and I deserve a credit of my membership fee. I have contacted the BBB and you all are still fighting it. I do not care if it takes 2 years I WILL get my money back.. As far as I am concerned...... PRE-PAID LEGAL IS A RIP OFF ALL-IN-ALL!
'Tim V' USA Today #1 stock Pre-Paid Legal
Tim Velpraiso or how ever you spell it. It's time for you to give up your weak argument. USA Today the largest publication in the WORLD prints another great article The number 1 stock out of 3,600+ companies on the New York Stock Exchange...' Pre-Paid Legal Services Inc.'(get it?) I once said you can't overcome dumb'. So who should we listen to.....the losers on this site or USA Today. Now all you naysayers should understand what I said. I got into Pre-Paid Legal as a member for a year before marketing it, because I had a vision. Most people can't see past their front door and their only dream is to get a week off from work in a year and maybe go to Disneyland. prepaidlegal.au That's the Australia Pre-Paid legal Services LTD. (clue)Go check it out. write some nasty things to them. They also understand the need. And to the guy who's Attorney is 100 miles away. Big deal....pay $200 to $400 per hour for an Attorney on the street if you don't like it. If you just got your Will done alone with our membership($500 to $2000) on the street.ppl FREE That pays for your membership for 4 to 5 years. The rest of the coverage is FREE. 'Think'
What does the stock price have to do with the 'opportunity'?
Jay, you are the the undisputed king of throwing out irrelevant evidence and then claiming an unwon victory.
Could you please tell me how the stock price has ANY relevance to the viability of the distributorship opportunity?
Have I ever made ANY statements to the effect that PPL wouldn't be a great company to own a part of? No. But, FYI, the price of the stock ONLY reflects how much interest there is IN THE STOCK. And interest in the stock ONLY reflects the perceived viability of the company, NOT the actual viability of the company, and CERTAINLY not the livelihood earned by lower level employees/contractors of the company.
And of course people want a piece of the company. I have said before, several times, that you have a quality product at a good price. Couple that with the extremely low marketing and distribution costs associated with pyramid schemes, and you've got a recipe for wealth. But for the owners of the stock, not for the distributors at the bottom!
So, again, you have spewed forth some completely irrelevant fact, claimed that it was the deal-closer, and then called ME stupid.
Try again. I look forward to your next, inevitably futile, attempt at intelligence. But next time, make sure your evidence is actually relevant.
Submitted: 7/27/2005 3:45:18 AM
Modified: 7/27/2005 3:45:18 AMChristopher
Arcadia, CaliforniaU.S.A.
Prepaid Legal has a great product...
Tim, you have expressed exactly what I have been thinking. Legal insurance is a great idea. I have no dispute with that. However, it is the company itself and the representatives that hinder any possibility of gaining my trust. Many people claim that much of the blame rests on the representatives not PPL. But how can a company whose workers misrepresent statistics be completely innocent especially when a company profits from these misrepresentations?
I think it's great that anyone is motivated to go out and sell a product. But my belief is that motivation to sell a product should come from the belief in the product, not greed. Yes, there are people in PPL who join because they believe in the product. However, most people I know have joined because of the illusion of large sums of money. But are they warned of the retention rates? Are they warned of the cancellation fees? Furthermore, since when did a man have to pay in order to sell?
I think the only reason why this company is considered legal is because it has combined a pyramid scheme with a potentially good product. When people mention that PPL is a pyramid scheme, associates are uncannily ready to fall back on their legal services as a legitimate product.
So what it comes down to is which part of Prepaid Legal people join for. Is it for the product? Or is it for the pyramid scheme? Do you find yourself bragging about the wonders of your product or about how much money you raked in on your last group of trainees? Have you sold more legal services or have you recruited more associates?
People like Pegleg Pete from Owatonna, Minnesota prove that prepaid legal services (and I do mean prepaid legal services, not Prepaid Legal 'Services') have potential to sell. However, the fact that this company is structured the way it is crosses into moral grounds. And now I am just regurgitating Tim's remarks. But who will really read all of this anyway? Most of you associates have already been hypnotized by canned speeches and greed and probably skimmed the first few lines to determine if I'm pro or con and moved on. When a pro PPL comment was found, you probably just sat there and read the whole thing so as to comfort yourself and bolster your belief in Prepaid Legal. So I guess it wouldn't really matter what I say. As for people like Pegleg, I'm glad you like the company because you actually love the product because I really do believe that one day, legal insurance will become as popular as car insurance. But Pete, know this. While structured as a pyramid, while making money by selling an imaginary product aka the right to sell, while selling a product through misconceptions, Prepaid Legal and their representatives will never be respectable. Can you still be proud to be a part of this?
Tim V - Just give up...
And I don't mean you're wrong, I just don't think it's getting through. I have enjoyed reading the last 3 years worth of responses on this issue, and frankly you seem to have the most level-headed view of this entire situation. It is evident that you are a well educated man, and one whom has carried past downfalls forward to a level of maturity that has seldom showed in this stream of defense and prosecution. Your sarcasm in previous posts has brought me to the verge of tears.
I have entertained many MLM programs over the years and pretty much know the ins-and-outs. Each associate, representative, contractor or what-have-you has come to me with the prospect of a 'great new marketing plan' that will undoubtedly make me rich beyond my wildest dreams. Personally, I'd be happy if it would pay my car payment. The only thing I saw to this programs benefit was the instant payout commission. After looking further it turned into an 'advance' with the option for the less glamorous yet more stable 'monthly' commission.($103 instant gratification versus $8.50 warm and fuzzy) Either way, I could see the income benefits fairly quickly without signing up 1 associate. This is also a reocurring income. Sell enough of these and you pay your mortgage for a few years. That being said, I don't believe this is a 'harmful' Pyramid/MLM (whatever you want to call it, connotation is the only factor here) especially after taking that very useful test. And even if it is, given the commission level, I'll at least pay for my initial investment (around 49 bucks at present, there's a deal going on, which makes one wonder if recruitment has fallen...) I've been through these things before, I know how to cut through the ra-ra BS that fills the weekly sales meetings and makes everyone go home ready to put a down payment on a yacht. (Which is very useful in the desert) The weekly meetings are an MLM standard (frankly, do any form of sales and try to avoid the pep-rally) and you won't get bugged if you don't go. (unless you have an annoying upliner who will usually call to remind you that you missed a meeting) The models are all the same on the base level. Whether they are drawing little circles on a board, showing you a table, or re-creating Darwin's chart of natural selection, there will always be a set of tiers that denote direct commissions or overrides. Which is where a prior poster mis-understood about the little Pyramid Scheme test, the issue is not the levels of advancment on a scale of promotion (if you sign up x number of people you get promoted from Associate to Executive Director and get more money per sale, etc) it is where there is a finite downline. An infinite downline promotes saturation and the ones on the bottom of the giant pyramid get squashed. PPL does not go over the 4 level marker, in fact I didn't see anything where the model went beyond the primary and secondary tiers.
The bottom line is that if you've replaced your copy of the Bible with the PPL sales literature, you're an idiot, time to get a reality check. Endorsements and stories about other rich people are useless. With the proper ambition and the right suckers a man or woman could sell real estate on Jupiter. The average joe who does not have used-car sales mentality is not going to make millions with any sales model. Generally with these MLM models, a family man will sign up some family members, get the program himself, and pay the water bill with his earnings. If he's lucky, Uncle Bob is a real go getter and his downline takes off. Now he can afford the luxury model Corolla and put a pool in the backyard. That is what MLM's are banking on. However, if you beat the street, knock on doors, and cold-call you could potentially replace your crappy job with a crappy sales job that makes you more money. I for one would rather have an awesome career doing something productive and satisfying. I may not be rolling an Escalade, but I will die a happy man.
For those that feel burned by this business opportunity. I don't accept your claims of being misrepresented, or being hoodwinked with promises of riches. If you were too stupid to do a bit of research, or somehow thought you would make money without having to try, euthanasia may be the only solution. Go into your local Wendy's and see if the 'Employment Opportunity' poster says 'Come apply for a crappy job flipping burgers'. Usually you will be offered a promising career, great oportunities, and pictures of smiling teenagers. It's marketing mentality, get over it.
As for the opportunity, I think I'm gonna try it. Maybe I'll pay my water bill, and I think I've got an Uncle who's a used car dealer. New Corolla here I come! (I digress, I'm a Subaru man through and through!) As for Jay, if you've expended half as much energy selling PPL as you have arguing for it in this stream, you must be a very rich man. Tim V, dude write a book on common sense in Home Based businesses and put all the PPL success stories to shame!
Thanks, Justin!
Thanks for the kudos, Justin!
I think you summed it up quite well. Is success possible with PPL? Probably. Unlike Amway/Quixtar and most other MLMs, PPL markets a very useful product. And, being in the legal profession and knowing how much clients pay for my time, I recognize that the PPL product is a good value, even if it is primarily geared towards 'counseling' rather than 'representation.'
My issue, if I may restate it (or if I haven't yet stated it) is in the 'rah-rah.' In my mind, any opportunity endorsed by Kiyosaki needs to be analyzed with great skepticism. People getting involved with a PPL distributorship should take the time to understand whether they really have the aptitide for sales, and whether the company affords an opportunity that is right for them. I find it troubling that so much effort is put into steering recruits AWAY from this pertinent information.
I don't like the idea of hopeful recruits being exploited in the name of cheap marketing, and this is exactly what happens in most MLMs. Recruits are lured in with implied promises of great wealth, they make a few uncomissioned or undercomissioned sales, and eventually realize that they can't hack it and drop out. The company loses nothing on the deal, but the failed recruit loses alot of valuable time and, sometimes (but not so much with PPL) a whole lot of money.
What would I change? I would like to see a policy of 'hiring' rather than 'recruitment.' Make sure that the people who come into the company will actually be able to do the job. I know that there is really no super-effective way of doing this, but