Report: Wal-Mart Corporation, Wal-Mart Supercenter Store #857
Category: Department & Outlet Stores
Wal-Mart Corporation, Wal-Mart Supercenter Store #857 Credit Card Fraud - consumer fraud ripoff Sanford Florida
*Consumer Comment ..blame the correct people, please
Wal-Mart Corporation, Wal-Mart Supercenter Store #857
Fax:
Sanford, Florida, 32773
U.S.A.
Submitted: 6/9/2003 3:13:23 PM
Modified: 2/13/2005 9:42:13 PM
Giovannina
Sanford, FloridaWal-Mart let me get ripped off to the tune of $141.87
On Memorial Day of this year, my wallet was stolen from my car in the driveway of my home. By the time I discovered the theft, the perps had used my check card at 2 gas stations and at our local Wal-Mart.
Wal-Mart did not have security cameras in the Garden Center (where my card was used), nor was there anyone watching the cameras at the time of the theft. To make matters worse, the cashier did not verify signature on my card.
This particular Wal-Mart hardly ever verifies signatures (about 1% of the time do they verify) and is well-known for being the worst place for credit card fraud in our area, yet the management does absolutely *NOTHING* to stop it.
The security department in this store is notorious for not being on the ball. In fact, the police investigator attached to my case only works with one of their people since in his words, 'she is the only one with any common sense.'
At this time, I'm still waiting for my bank to investigate the fraud and return my money. My bank (AmSouth) has been INCREDIBLE up to this point and has not held me liable for any of the charges (not even the standard $50 that lost credit card companies charge).
I'm furious at Wal-Mart and their inept employees who let those hood-rats walk out with DVDs, games and even dog food using MY money. If Wal-Mart employees had been doing their job, the thieves would have been caught and I wouldn't have as much aggravation replacing everything in my wallet.
A word of advice from the police officer who responded to my call: whenever you go anywhere (like a theme park, mega-store, etc) periodically wipe your windows/doorhandles with a t-shirt of baby wipe. This way, if your vehicle *is* broken into, there's a high probability that there will be good prints to lift.
Giovannina
Sanford, Florida
U.S.A.
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Updates & Rebuttals:
- I seriously suspect you consider yourself a genius TheFraudChick@aol.com [6/9/2003 7:56:21 PM]
- Update for clarification Giovannina [6/10/2003 7:45:02 AM]
- Consider myself a genius? Giovannina [6/10/2003 7:47:42 AM]
- wow... TheFraudChick@aol.com [6/18/2003 5:59:38 PM]
- Point made. B [6/20/2003 4:57:04 PM]
- Everyone was wrong at some point Janni [5/5/2004 10:19:28 PM]
- Good Input, All BUT...... Giovannina [5/6/2004 6:42:55 AM]
- Checking Signatures Amanda [5/7/2004 11:11:58 AM]
- Re: Checking Signatures Giovannina [5/8/2004 2:09:36 PM]
- Wow.. Daniel [6/15/2004 1:52:00 AM]
- Merchant Contract SPECIFICALLY STATES Merchant May NOT Ask For I,.D. Other Than The Credit Card Juliet [6/16/2004 3:38:33 AM]
- Wait a Minute ...We are all responsible for protecting our own information John [6/16/2004 11:36:27 AM]
- apples or oranges Allen [2/4/2005 4:25:52 PM]
- Juliet - You are wrong - regardless of what those things say Nicole [2/9/2005 4:25:43 PM]
- blame the correct people, please S. [2/13/2005 8:49:26 AM]
Submitted: 6/9/2003 7:56:21 PM
Modified: 6/20/2003 12:03:53 PM
TheFraudChick@aol.com
Ethics, FloridaU.S.A.
I seriously suspect you consider yourself a genius
Giovannina,
Please help me understand how Wal-Mart ripped you off of $141.87. First of all, you didn't lose a dime--you bragged about that. Second of all, YOU lost the Credit Card Company and Wal-Mart money—you did.
You state in your e-mail:
1. That YOU left your wallet in your car in your driveway.
Let's repeat that, shall we?
YOU left YOUR WALLET in your CAR in YOUR DRIVEWAY. Where some common thief stole your wallet and you think a BUSINESS is INEPT?
When will consumers accept responsibility for BAD JUDGEMENT? Do you accept ANY responsibility for pure foolishness? I make BAD decisions everyday and those decisions are mine and mine alone--are yours?
Consumers complain when businesses request ID with credit card—it infringes on their privacy, they complain. You can't have it both ways.
Wal-Mart and other businesses are eating big dollars because YOU left your WALLET in your CAR in your DRIVEWAY. I seriously suspect you consider yourself a genius—very sad.
Sad.
Update for clarification
Let me address a few issues:
1. My car was LOCKED in my driveway but in Florida that is immaterial. Your car is an extension of your home (castle doctrine).
2. My wallet was not in plain view. It was hidden. The theives had to go to considerable trouble to find it.
3. My wallet was *not* the only thing stolen. About $50 cash, all the change out of my console and a about 30 CDs were also taken.
Furthermore, the fact that Wal-Mart employees did not do their job and check ID is *not* my fault. Had Wal-Mart done their job, the theives would not still be on the loose. In fact, if Wal-Mart employees had been doing their job, the perps would most likely not have been allowed to leave the store. That is what is SAD.
As far as losing the money, honey, I still don't have it back. In fact, it may be a long time before I ever get it back (if ever). All I've gotten back is the $12 worth that was used at 2 gas stations. In fact, until the bank verifies everything, I'm going to be out that money and money is tight these days.
The thing I'm MOST peeved about is that in this case, signature was NOT verified and if it had been, the transaction would have been DENIED since the signature on the back of the card is not what is printed on the front.
This is fronm my Target training: 'If you read your cardmember agreement, the signature on the back panel MUST match exactly what is printed on the front. Anything else technically voids the card.' When I worked at Target, we were REQUIRED to verify ID if the name on the back of the card and signed on the slip did not exactly match the name printed on the front. This is for consumer protection.
To get around signing my long name, I abbreviate it and gladly show ID. I even ASK people to verify my ID. If a signature does not match, it is the responsibility of the merchant to get some form of ID that matches the printed name on the front of the card and verify the identity of the card user. Yes this takes about an additional 20 seconds, but if stores would do this, then they wouldn't be losing the money.
If the moron at the register had bothered to check the signature panel, they would have seen that the name signed to the slip did NOT even match the name printed on the card. Therefore I have every right to be peeved at Wal-Mart.
In fact, the ineptitude of the security personnel at this particular Wal-Mart has hampered the police investigation. The managers of that store have been warned by the police over and over again to verify signatures. It's a well-known fact that one can use a stolen credit card at that store and NOT GET CAUGHT.
I want for Wal-Mart (and in particular this one) to wake up and take the necessary precautions to avoid this in the future.
Consider myself a genius?
Now that is very funny. I just re-read that. Nope I don't. As a matter of fact, I'm just an average Jane Citizen who thinks that companies should enforce the training they give their employees and keep up their end of the merchant agreements they have with credit card companies.
Had I left my car UNLOCKED in a parking lot, I could accept that. But a locked car in my driveway is a totally different matter altogether.
Submitted: 6/18/2003 5:59:38 PM
Modified: 6/20/2003 12:03:53 PMTheFraudChick@aol.com
Ethics, ColoradoU.S.A.
wow...
Giovanna,
Wow, the way you describe it your car was a veritable fortress of security. A regular Fort Knox of vehicles--the Titanic of invincible conveyance!
You know what would have kept them from getting your wallet?
Not leaving it in your car.
Point made.
I have to agree with both of you. Yes, a business should be required to check the signatures on card and actual signatures on slips. However, Giovannina, you don't know that they DIDN'T do this, and some reason alternative reason or factor was given or explained.
People can act like they 'broke their hand and that's why the signature is different'. Then there are some people out there who can forge signatures to look very similar. How do you know that the criminal didn't practice your signature?
Fraud chick: EXCELLENT POINT! She does have a great point that you should keep your wallet on you or by you at all times. I never leave anything of value in my car, and in this day and age you would think that society would stop having the attitude 'It won't happen to me'.
I hope that Giovannina understands that she is responsible for the theft occurring initially.
Giovannina needs to take responsibility that this is initially her fault.
Everyone was wrong at some point
Lets put the blame where it belongs. G. was not responsible for the initial theft. The THEIF was. Yes, common sense tells us it is stupid to leave your valuables in the car. Did she actually believe that state law makes a difference to the criminal?
Walmart might have been able to do a better job of checking the signature. However, most folks signatures change with their moods. I don't know of any clerks that are handwriting experts.
I'm not sure if they have worked some kind of deal with the credit card companies, but in my small retail store, according to our contract, we are not allowed to ask for other id and we are not supposed to accept any card that is not signed. The trick of writing in 'Check ID' and not signing the card leaved it invalid.
But, back to the real cause of the problem. It is the jerk who stole the card in the first place...not Walmart.
Good Input, All BUT......
I do know for a fact that signature was *not* compared. When the employee who processed my card was quesetioneed by supervisor & police, they *admitted* not checking ID or signature.
I heard this from the investigating officer on the case.
An update:
I did *eventually* get my $$$ back from my bank. It just took 2 months of investigation. I had to replace the social security cards for myself and my infant (at the time) daughter and that was a hassle. It also took months for me to replace my AMEX which the crooks did not attempt to use. At least they had some brains. :(
It's been so long since this happened, that I'd forgotten all about it until I got an email notification this morning.
Checking Signatures
I am a former employee of Walmart, here in Chattanooga,Tn. And no we are were not required by the company to check every single persons id that presented a check or credit card for payment. It is Walmarts, or Sam Walton's, belief that everyone is honest..that is from the founder of walmart. And Walmart is not allowed to accuse or hold customers in the store only our loss prevention have that authorization, the customer doesn't even have to give up the card.. so the one that stole your cards, that charged on them before you reported it stolen..that is no ones fault but your own. I am glad your bank refunded the money taken from your account and hope that instead of accusing everyone else, look at yourself....you are the one that gave the oppurtunity by leaving the wallet in your car..locked or unlocked...and I bet you still leave your wallet in the car or did you get smart?
Re: Checking Signatures
It is naive to expect *all* people to be honest. As a former Target team-member, I was required to verify signature on *every* transaction that required one, ie check or credit card. As a general rule, I *thank* employees who actually do this. And if they don't I ask them why. To date, I've never been given a good reason why they don't verify signature. And I have swithced my shopping habits to include only stores that routinely check signature.
FYI, the credit card companies require this, regardless of store policy. That is precisely why the bank will refund the $$ if signature is not verified.
And to the wise-acre who presumed I still leave my wallet in my car, my car is an extension of my home (it's called castle doctrine). My belongings are presumed as safe there as they are in my actual dwelling. I leave lots of things in my car worth far more than my wallet or its contents. If my car-seats for my children get stolen, would you be so quick to point a finger? Besides all that, many rare CDs were in my car - those were stolen as well. Do YOU remove ALL the contents of your car every night? I bet not.
Regardless, like I said before it's been so long since this happened, it's all water under the bridge. But I *do* make every effort to make sure my car is secure and anything important is in the house at the end of the day. I will say this though - my husband is NOTORIUS for leaving my car unlocked when he brings in our daughter. It's like its too much effort to click the transmitter while he's carrying her. Many times I've had a 'feeling' in the middle of the night and gone to check my car after he's driven and there it sits *unlocked*. GRRR.
Submitted: 6/15/2004 1:52:00 AM
Modified: 6/16/2004 12:14:44 AM
Daniel
Oklahoma City, OklahomaU.S.A.
Wow..
Ok.. here is the deal..
As much as I despise Wal-Mart. And as much as I am pleased when someone requests to see my ID when I make a purchase with my card. G you and some of the others seem to be confused.
I agree that you have the right to expect your posessions to be safe in your car. But have you heard the expression 'fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.' If not how about this one. 'You are crusing for a brusing' Lets learn a lesson here do not keep your valuables in your car! Yes, you can expect them to be safe but the reality is it is far easier for someone with less of a moral code to take advantage of you by breaking into your car. You sleep in your house not in your car.
Second there is no one to blame here for anything except the thief. I am sure that you have gone to Wal-Mart and seen that you do not even have to give the cashier your card anymore. You can swipe it your self. You lost money, Wal-Mart lost merchandise and money, your bank lost money. All because you made a poor judgement by leaving your wallet in your car. But you are not to blame. We all make poor judgements. The key to it is you need to learn and not make the same mistake again. We all carry valuable things in our vehicle from time to time. But when i get home there is no way I am going to leave my laptop, PDA, or Cell Phone in there. I learned my lesson a long time ago when my car was broken into. They got 100 CD's a radio, my car cd player a portable TV and a Camcorder. NERVER AGAIN!
Oh by the way.. Where do you live? If you are leaving all of this valuable stuff in your car perhaps that would be enough to sway my morals too!
Merchant Contract SPECIFICALLY STATES Merchant May NOT Ask For I,.D. Other Than The Credit Card
I work for a bank in the credit card processing department and I have read the Merchant Contracts with Visa/Mastercard from top to bottom, several times. The contract specifically states that the merchant IS NOT PERMITTED TO ASK FOR OTHER FORMS OF IDENTIFICATION when a credit card is presented.
It is also true that writing 'Check ID' on the signature panel instead of your signature invalidates the card and the card should not be honored.
Wait a Minute ...We are all responsible for protecting our own information
Why are you so pissed off at Walmart? Even though it was a lot less money didn't the same thing happen at the Gas Stations????
In this age of technology with the self swiping machines and where in some cases (like home depot) you self check and sign the device without an e,mployee.
We are all responsible for protecting our own information, There is no one to blame but ourselves if we leave our wallets in a car ore elsewhere where tyhey can be stolen.
Don't blame the store for this if there are a lot of other places the card can be use without dealing with an employee.
apples or oranges
Gio-- You have me corn-fuzed. I have determined you had your wallet stolen. however I am not sure what kind of a card it is you are rambling about. One second you are going on about a check card (debit card ?) and the next about credit card fraud. I feal your pain but each of these are unique and different as to how they are handled by a financial institute. One is a charge and the other is a direct attack on your checking account.
In no way was a W/M employee at fault for your leaving your wallet in a place to be lifted by someone. Most debit cards allow for a PIN nr to be used and credit cards do not. For some strange reason you were in no way bothered by the use of the card at a gas station. Sounds like you were just flustrated at the loss and just needed to have a scape goat for your own carelessness, Yes and there it was a Wal-Mart, yes I know that most people that work there are not the best trained and for the money they make the brightest wont stay there.
I am glad you are getting your money back and the way it sounds with very little hassle from your bank, that is a good mark for them. If you really need to have someone to be mad at look to yourself. I am sure you learned a lot from this so in the future take better care of your 'stuff' and stop making a lot of noise about a company you probably no very little about. I know little of W/M or the established policy on signature verification but I will say the people who work there are not are not handwritting experts and I dont expect them to be. You were even down on the police officer that took your call, what did you expect, this was not a major case after all. also did you leave your car unlocked? If so then again where does the fault land? Not with W/M. So, suck it up and say I goofed and I take full responsibility, overall you got off easy with your loss, It could have been much more harmful.
Juliet - You are wrong - regardless of what those things say
I worked at a store (I wont mention the name due to confidentiality) in Washington state two years ago.
At one point, a woman came through with a credit card (I make it a point to check ID with ALL credit cards unless they have a pic or pin number). I asked for her id, and she said no. I asked again, and again she said no.
I told her if she was unwilling to show id, she could a) go to the atm (10 feet away) and then come right back and pay in cash - I would even hold her spot so she wouldn't have to wait b) use a debit card or c) not follow through with the transaction. I was not willing to take her cc w/o identification. Period.
She huffed off and I thought that was that. The next week or so, I recieved a summons at work saying I was being sued for discrimination. My store was also being brought up on charges. Store X's case was dismissed immediatly.
The judge said they did the right thing (regardless of what the merchant agreement says - and by the way it says extra id other than govt issued id this was interrpreted by the judge on MC, Visa - AMEX is diff because most stores require billing zips for processing so they don't require id).
Mine took a little longer. The woman made up lies saying I didn't let it go through because of her race (she looked the same race as I am, to me). My case was also dismissed, again stating I did the right thing.
I filed a counter suit and the woman had to give a public apology to both myself, and the store I worked at.
So to everyone who says stores can't ask for id, you are wrong. WE cannot however:
write your info on the sales receipt
require ssn, or anything other than pic id govt issued
Require ID when a debit card is used (with a pin number)
We CAN
require ID for cc, and checks
At least that is what WA state judges say.
blame the correct people, please
1. it is ONLY the theif's, or theives' fault, not the owner of the stolen merchandise/goods, or the store clerks who follow an insane, 'don't ask for id' policy... but from what i read, it is the credit card companies' policy as stated in their contract with sellers. therefore, any losses incurred by them for such an oversight are their own fault, in that regard...it's why interest is so high on those rip-off programs anyway. credit is a big time ripoff most anywhere you get it. and i'm not going into all my nightmares the few times i tried to use credit, but suffice it to say the tables definitely lean in the companies' favor. whatever laws you may have in your state, i can get into a car quickly if i don't care whether or not i do damage, and get away with the break in...it would not be difficult, and the likelihood of meeting the owner is less than if i break into their home...so, the house would be a better place for your valuables that can continue to cause you losses, i.e. ID, charge cards, checks, or bank account info. i don't blame you for being robbed, but to not learn from the experience would make someone an idiot...you speak fairly well, i doubt you are an idiot...please, be more careful in the future. for your sake, i stand to gain nothing whether you do or not. as for the inept people at wal-mart...they have to follow contractual obligations whether they agree or not. maybe they didn't deserve all the bad mouthing for a situation beyond their control... and maybe the police do hate that store, maybe i'm too forgiving of the store...i can't say for certain, i wasn't directly involved to see for myself...just trying to have you look from a different perspective, in case you can do better in the future, also, as you expect them to do. sorry you were robbed...it shouldn't happen to anyone, but it does, and we all need to take some precautions.
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