C R ENGLAND Trucking School ripoff a joke BAD BAD people Spartanburg South Carolina

The poster above recommended getting a partner to drive with... If you're going to stay at CRE then do NOT get a team driver. You want to become a CAT trainer for as long as you can, and then become a driver trainer. These are the ONLY ways to make any kind of money at CRE. Granted, the people you're training are going to be pissed off just like we all were for feeling like they're getting the short end of the stick, but they are still "paying" for their training. I was with CRE for a year, leased a truck and lost my a*s in the beginning, but I fired my driver manager, got into CAT training and finally started making money, and then got into driver training.

Also your driver manager is the person who makes you the best money, if you get a bad one, you'll do a LOT of sitting, get a good one (Ryan Johnson for example) and he'll keep you rolling, send you where you want to go and even try to get you home when you need to be there. He actually cares about his drivers because they are who makes HIM money as well...

Well, now, being on "the inside" I am seeing the way things really are, not what they tell you.


Seriously - You can not make $80,000 driving a truck, first year.
Well, here is the REAL story :
You have to Lease the truck, so every expense (EVERY) is on you. So, yes, you make the $80,0000, but you are stuck with about $60,000 in expenses, mostly fuel, insurance, and maintenence.

If you are solo or a company guy - forget it, because the law says you have to shut down for 10 hours after 11 driving. You are lucky to make $500 week. Because you only make 26 cents per mile. So, in a perfect world, you drive 600 miles a day, legally - that's about the max.

You don't get paid for sitting at the shipping yard, while they are 3 hours late getting your load, you don't get paid for sitting at the receiver's yard while the guys are taking their dear sweet time unloading your trailer.
Lots of unpaid down time.

And - the Leasing guys get all the actual Long haul miles, because they want them to make the $$$ so they don't default on their lease. (I did the math - you gotta run about 3000 miles / week to break even). So the Lease drivers are driving and dropping stuff off at a drop yard, hooking up something else, and off they go. A Company guy is going to go to the yard, and actually take it to the shipper - which means low miles & lots of waiting around.
That is not good.


The only way to make money is to get a partner, and keep the wheels rolling - 24/7 - even while you sleep. It will not be restful, as you will be tossing and bumping around, but you might make $650/$700 week.

Then after 6 months, be a trainer. You get paid all the miles he drives, so you might make $1000/week.

And this is what you make for learning a very stressful skill, and giving up your family & entire life for.
I left my wife & kids on Jan. 8th. Have not seen them since.

I had to sit for an UNPAID 5 day orientation, and then sit (unpaid) for 5 days in the motel while they found a driver to send me out with. Then I drove for the 11 hours, sleep 10, drive 11, sleep 10 etc, nonstop for 5 days streaight as we drove from LA to Wisconsin. I got paid $50/day for 5 days, as he had 2 days off, and I had to live in the cab of the truck in the parking lot for those 2 days.
I did that for 3 weeks - h*o boy, $250/week for 3 weeks.
Now I am with a Leaser , so he does no stops - wheels turn 24/7. But, my first week, ,we sat in Illinois for 2 days, so my fourth weeks's check was only $300.

The next weekend , we had to sit for another 2 days because the only trailer available had bad brakes , ao it took those 2 days to fix them, and they wouldn't let us off that load, so someone else could come get it when it was fixed.

So, now I am about 2 months behind on the bills, and the wife is all stressed out because she is alone with the kids, and th4e phone keeps ringing with bill collectors calling..
So, actually doing this job put be behind about $3000 for the first 2 months.


And - you betterget used to typing posts and making spelling errors, as the truck is very bouncy back here while I am posting this.


So - If you can earn more than $500/$600 week doing something else, I would HIGHLY reccommend it.
If you are in your early 20's - no house, no wife, no kids, no bills - I would say Go For It - get a partner, & lease it. You will do allright.
And, after 2 years of it you can go somewhere else for more money, as now you have real over the road experience. Maybe go get your HazMat endorsement, then.

There IS money to be made, here - but this is the only way to do it. Get a partner, and Lease, and get a NEW truck - one that won't break down.

CR England is well known on the streets for it's horrible abuse of drivers, and especially known for how they abuse newbies. Their safety record is horrible.

From the pay, to the working conditions, to one of the worst lease/purchase programs that is a one-way ticket to bankruptcy, this company is nothing short of one of the worst companies that anyone on any level can hook up with.

Don't take my word for it. Google 'em. Read what can be found on this site. There isn't a Hollywood writer alive who could pen a script for a horror movie, that can begin to rival what you can read online in regard to this company.

I have a simple motto that has never let me down. It's easy to ignore a complaint or two. There are people on this earth that wouldn't be satisfied if they were paid a million dollars a week to just show up for work and sit there for eight hours a day. It's a little harder to ignore fifty complaints. Where there's smoke, the fire is surely lurking somewhere. It's insanity on one's part if they find hundreds of complaints, and they even consider picking up the phone to inquire.

This company needs to go the wayside of others who have infested this industry to do nothing but walk on the backs of employees for the sake of profit. When they stoop to abusing unsuspecting people who know nothing about the trucking industry, there is a special hell for people who do this.

Don't get me wrong. Everyone who is looking to get into the industry, and who can meet the standards, deserves a shot. There's just better companies out there, and better ways to go about achieving the same goal.

The fact is, this company and a few others out there like it, have tapped all the experienced resources of the labor pool. If they were worth working for, the applications would be piling up on the desks, having been submitted by experienced drivers. Thus, they depend on "fresh meat", the inexperienced and those unaware of the reputation they have amassed.

And as much as it would serve humanity for this company to go bankrupt, so long as they can draw people into the doors by whatever means they can conjure up to do so, they will continue to thrive.

Don't let yourself be the next victim. There are better options for employment within this industry...trust me.

The only thing I didn't notice in your lease plan by these thugs was insurance which was a minimum of $138.06 a week with a note at the bottom,
*Rates subject to change*

Totalling an additional $552.24 every 4 weeks the leasee is mugged of by these corporate criminals.

Lease Program
Proposed by CR ENGLAND

http://www.crengland.com/jobopp/index.jsp?page=ind_contractor_leasing

As proposed and presented in the example of independant contactor revenues and expenses for a solo driver. Projection do not include quarterly Income Taxes or health benefit.

Projection based on 158,000 miles ran in a 1 year period.

1 Take 150,800 miles per year or 2900 miles per week for 52 weeks.
To maintain the validity of these numbers the driver contractor must understand that there are no vacation time.

2 Lets assume the driver takes 1 day off every 11 days, this means the driver must travel 150,800 miles within 332 days at a rate of 454.21 miles per day.

3 In order to run 454.21 miles a day the driver must maintain an average moving speed of 45 miles per hour for 10.09 hrs daily. (One must account these variables, highway miles travel at 70 miles per hour, traffic time, bridges, tole, weather conditions, detention downtime. breakdown, loading and unloading, and god forbid emergency stops to go to the bathroom.) I think that this conclusion is more than reasonable.

4 The example given shows 2900 miles paid at .90per miles for a total of 2625.00. According to my calculation the total would be 2610.00, small discrepency of 15.00 a week or 780.00 a year.

5 Pick up drops and detention pay are scrutinized by most companies and the driver usually gets the low end of the bargain.

6 Fuel 6.1 mpg with fuel cap of 1.25 per gallon, 2900 miles under this equasion is 594.00.
(My understanding is that traffic time, Idling, running air conditionning, and milage to get to the destination may be scrutinized by the company and may affect these numbers. If the vehicule drops to 5.6 mpg and I beleive it is fair to say, the weekly expense would then be 647.32 per week .
A difference of 53.32 or 2772.70 per year.

7 General reserve, a .07 cents per miles for a total of 203.00 cap at 10,000. This is a reserve managed by the cie for maintenance of the vehicule, breakdown of items not under warrenty, tires and other issues the vehicule may encounter. It would be unwise to assume that the contributor would get a refund for unused maintenace reserve at the end of the lease .It would be wiser to expect and hope that no invoice or bills come from not rendering the vehicule in perfect condition.

8 Variable milage payment is 14cents per milesx2900miles=406.00 .This amount must be added to the contactor initial truck payment of 459.00 weekly for a total of 865.00 weekly payments,3748 monthly,or 44980 yearly.

Lets assume the vehicule is use and is worth 90,000 and has 250,000miles. If the vehicule was finance to purchase over 60 MONTHS@44% INTEREST Payments would be 3729.88

CONCLUSION

As of last year we have heard more and more about predatory financing, mostly in real estate.
Many were sold loans on house they couldnt afford, with creative option arm program and no down financing, interest only loans.

It has become evident as of lately that many will need to foreclose and find themselves owing more that what they are worth.

The trucking industry seems do be going into the same direction. There is no way to sugar coat the numbers of such a lease, more than I have just did, and even then the bottom line is negative.

It just doesnt add up.

any comments will be appreciated
CRAM ODAN
CONSULTANT

I am about to start the driving school in California in order to get my CDL, I've read a few reports so far that suggest I start running in the opposite direction! Are there any positives in shelling out the $2k for the course.
Do they gaurentee you a job at the end of your training?
What's the deal with the "lease" that I keep reading about?
Do you still need to redo your driving/written test at the DMV?

Any info would be greatly appreciatted, Thanks

If you have any depression at all, do NOT attend their schools! I was lucky enough to go to an outside school, MTC, so it was a LITTLE nicer than Spartanburg, but I cant really say much about it. I went to paducah, KY. You actually had a hotel room.

I felt bad because a lot of these people came to this school on a bus, with just a few pairs of clothes, & no money.

They offered a lunch & dinner but it was more like prison food, not enough to satisfy MY hunger. You cant say much though because a lot of us paid nothing out of pocket. I was lucky enough to have driven there myself, & had enough money to get me by for a few weeks, so I was able to do & go where i please, & could bail any time if needed.

I stuck in there, got my CDL & was off. I have mixed feeling about the school, the training was AWFUL but the people I met were COOL! I met a lot of cool people who were in the same boat I was!

Many of times, I would ask people at the hotel room, ect if they wanted a ride to wal-mart, or wherever. I just felt bad that these people came with NOTHING. i mean NOTHING! Just having my car made the experience a little more bearable, but its still tough leaving home & changing your whole entire life for this.

I just feel awful about how this company plays with your dreams & heart. These people come in here, trying to make a better living for themselves, trying to have a decent life, & this company rips you off like this. i dontreally need to explain how, I think we all know what they've done & told, everything BUT the truth. Its a shame.

I went to Spartanburg, which was supposed to be 3 days, apparently we were the last group to be going through this orientation class because they were closing that facility down because the state of south carolina wanted close to a million dollars for learning facility. If oyu call it that. So all the employees really could care less if they helped you or not, they were gonna be canned in 2 weeks! a 3 day ordeal turned into a week long ordeal. waiting for my trainer, ect.

THAT PLACE WAS A DUMP! I would have rather have driven out to Salt Lake City if I knew that place was that bad! ugh how depressing that week was. I still think back & it makes me sick! My car saved my sanity. Just knowing I could leave when I wanted. Having no TV, or anything I would just go out to my car & sit there, or go for a drive. Thats the only way I made it through the CDL training & orientation..only to go out with a stinky fat miserable redneck & make 250 dollars a week. Needless to say I quit after the first month. Im making more money driving local for a company making almost 3 times what I was making there! & Im home every day!

In response to Andy, from Florida. Dude, it sounds like you didn't have much fun with England. I worked at England for a very short time. Let me tell you my experiences. First, I went to the SLC(Salt Lake) main terminal. Super nice. That's what you saw in the brochure. Cafeteria on property. Rooms are same as hotel rooms, except with 10 beds, bunk-bed style. A good place for a student to learn. The reason you learn on junk is because students tear up the trucks. Can't blame England for that. I came to England with some experience, and had my CDL already. I was there for orientation. Out of a dozen companies, England had the best orientation by far. Lots of information. I learned a lot in those few days. Decent people running orientation, too. I didn't know about lease rip-offs in those days. I was too new. So, I said sure, I'll lease a truck. That's where the whole problem started. I had to go out with a lease trainer for 2 to 3 weeks. I got this dumb-a*s black f**k named Walter Wharton. He's a little guy who owns his own truck. Not leases, but owns. Or rather, making payments. Like $1600 a month. The problem is that Walter isn't very smart. He came to England after being homeless. Now, he is in a truck and has some money to spend. But, he spent every dime he ever got. When all his money was gone, he started signing up for credit. He bought a new house in West Valley. His wife had a new or late-model suv. So, now Walter is stuck with all these payments to make. The only problem is that after 6 years of OTR driving, he is burnt out with it. So, what is he to do? Well, along comes England and tells Walter that he can train. Trainers make extra money. So, Walter decides to train teams. A husband and a wife, plus him, in the truck. That's great for Walter. First the man drives, then the wife. Walter doesn't have to drive. But, he gets the lion's share of the money. He didn't even want to work with me. I was a solo. But, England assigned him. So, off we go, hauling refrigerated loads all over the country. Naturally, Walter, human piece of s**t that he is, refuses to allow his co-drivers to stop the truck for physical needs. No food, no rest room stops. No showers. Of course, he brings his food along in a cooler, so he eats. And, on his shift, he stops to wash up anytime he likes. But, his student doesn't get any of those opportunities. Basically he uses the students like they are his personal slaves. I knew this would happen before I even left with him. He had a bible in his sleeper. Anytime you have somebody who is heavy into religion, you know you will get treated badly. That's why they are into religion. They know they are a trash person, so they are looking for salvation. The problem is that they keep on treating people badly. Anyway, after 9 days of fuel-stop hot dogs for my meals and holding my piss all day while I drove, I said enough. I got off on the 80 somewhere in Nebraska and threw my s**t out of the truck. As luck would have it, the greyhound was parked at a meal break right across the street. I went over, bought a ticket home and never looked back. Last I seen of Walter, he was typing his whole story into the Qualcomm. I called England and told them. They offered to send a driver to pick me up and start the training again. But, I declined. England seemed like a decent company up to that point. But, it turns out that they sell the student to the trainer for $46 a day. The trainer can run the student as long and hard as they like. Naturally, most trainers are happy with 400 to 500 miles. They don't want you to run hard and fall asleep and get the both of you killed. But, nor Walter. His back is up against the wall. He has to have a certain amount of money just to keep his bills paid. It never dawns on him that the student isn't the one who ran up all his bills. In true pimp fashion, he has no human concern for anyone. He'll run his students to death if that's what it takes to make his nut every month. England looks the other way. That's the one thing they did wrong. First, they had money invested. They paid my bus up to SLC, my room and meals, and my orientation expenses. What did they get? Little or nothing in return. I walked away never to return. Second, they almost lost a lot more. I was so tired one night that I went to sleep. What the hell, it wasn't my truck. Let it get smashed up. I was so new that I thought that the truck gently runs off the edge and rolls over onto it's side. I figured I wouldn't get hurt. Man, that was a bad idea. Lucky I didn't get killed. Walter was asleep the whole time. The idiot would never have known what hit him. If I had drifted over to the left, I could have hit a car head-on. England would have to pay. That's what they risk when they do nonsense like this. I really don't think they are smart enough to figure all this out. They are like so many companies, desperate for drivers. Of course, they aren't desperate enough to treat the drivers that they do have in a decent manner, so they won't want to quit. Out of all the companies (14) I worked for, KLLM was about the best. They're a reefer company. Jackson, Mississippi. They aren't great. They still run you to death. But, the pay is right. And most of the dispatchers make sense. I'd put KLLM at the top of the list in a industry filled with rip-offs and poor working conditions. England is a little farther down on the list.