Liberty League International. The Perspective You should have

Well I am not going to start my rebuttal with the cliche 'Liberty League International is a great company'.

What I really want to do is shed some light on the product, a consumer suggested that the 'Beyond Freedom' product is overpriced. They suggested the cost to manufacture the product is a mere $20. What I also see is an accountability issue of pointing fingers and laying blame to product, team, and organization. They say I failed, they say the company failed me, They say I lost money and in debt. Well why ? Because you didn't try. I have countless affiliates who have made 15K a month I also have affiliates who never answer my calls when I call them. Will they eventually clamor and complain when they didnt make a red cent. Th truth is many have the 49.99 automated mentality, and the sad part is they carry that same mentality to a $1,500 product, no its not fully automated and it won't sell itself. Point in sum is if you put a sincere effort you will make money. Thats period.

Well here is my case as a graduate from an Ivy League College with an MBA and the top 25 in the class. I was sure headed down the road to success, great JOB, nice home, nice car, etc. Right ? Wrong, I paid in excess of 160K dollars for an education that limited class instruction to power point slides, and tons of BS projects. Worth the price tag? NO WAY, you see I am one to value an education, but what good is an education if it cannot empower you. I learned very fast that my education was meant to empower someone else. First being my professors whom financially benefited from my attendance, secondly I empowered my employer by providing my talents and services and providing millions of dollars in production. This is not even to mention that I demeaned myself through the act of the so called 'INTERVIEW'. You know, the part where you act not like yourself and over compensate your character for the sake of landing that dream job. Most flattering to the employer. They know you want the job, they know you possibly may need the job, and they boast at how there were 1,000 candidates whom applied and you my freind are lucky enough to be in their presence.

This my freind is the institutionalized America. Designed to create empowerless individuals. designed to set us up with inopportunity, lack luster employers, insufficient retirement funds. In contrast it is designed to benefit the Corporate institutions, Why? Well it's these companies that fuel a GLOBAL ECONOMY, Keep America in CONTENTION as a rich and wealthy super-power. But how many of us are rich? say about 6%.

In sum if anyone likes to join the game of pointing fingers, and blaming others, stick to office politics. We have no room for you here at Liberty League International. Go back to work and talk about how screwed your boss is, not giving you a raise, vacation, time and an awful AMOUNT OF WORK. Amazes me what people would do for $12 an hour. Yet, it amazes me more what people won't do to take their financial futures in their own hands.

We want individuals who will take responsibility for themselves, Who know the scandalous infrastructure of today's America, designed to keep some rich some poor but most middle-class of which our countries financial statements depend on mostly.

So if Liberty League is a scam, than America is the chairman of 'CONS R' US'

Empower yourself not anyone else. God bless !

Liberty League Follow-Up Rebuttal

I guess my original post was not entirely read by Gabriel- he repeats some of the same criticisms I already raised as if they are new i.e. the old 'I didn't try' justification. Seven days a week for six months solid is not trying? Perhaps the business is not as 'easy to follow' as it is presented. And realize also it is no coincidence that very many otherwise successful, intelligent business people are failing miserably at LLI. But the most common defense will always be that we just weren't committed enough, and that we didn't try hard enough. Even the Better Business Bureau lists LLI as a pyramid scheme, with a long pattern of complaints against them.

Lets clean this up

Matt,
by all means and respect to you, you are full of it. There is no way you can work 100 leads a weak for 6 months and not close their is a historical sales conversion rate of 2to 3% per 100 that means your should have made 8k to 12k a month just like myself. You know I have visited every forum out there and guess what your posting is so cliche, that you would really make some money getting the dialogue syndicated and copyrighted. Why are so many saying the exact same things almost as if they were copied and pasted.

Secondly Matt I would like to know why the heck would you by leads from the company. Every real LLI'er knows not to do it, and you DON'T HAVE to BUY AN 800#. This posses a credibility issue on your behalf. Secondly the BBB has only one blemish on it's report JUST ONE! not countless. Where are your facts comming from MATT other forums ?

MATT also as an LLI'er you should know what this blemish on the report is, im bringing you to the plate. If you get this right I leave you alone, if you don't well then it would further conrete my conclusion that you are a propogandist trying to shake up a company and brand in order to promote another opportunity. Matt Stop talking what you don't know, and finally what class action lawsuit are you talking about? there is none in the WORKS.

Liberty League Follow-Up

Dear Gabriel,
Your latest post was very entertaining- thank you for a good chuckle. I am in awe of your claim that I am 'promoting another opportunity'. Show me where I said THAT and I will respect YOU! Never once have I mentioned another opportunity- only sharing the truth about my own experience with LLI - PERIOD! Is there a law against that? I think not.

It is obvious that we will go round and round on here endlessly, since you have an answer for everything (kinda like my 6 year old). I am glad you are so right and sorry I must be so ignorant. You keep it up and you will soon be headed for the Executive Marketing Council at LLI, you are so knowledgeable!

I'm sure Mr. Payne would be proud of you for asking me 'why the heck I would buy leads from Extreme Leads'- LLI's lead company. If they are so bad, why does LLI endorse them so heavily? You mean they aren't being 100% honest when endorsing them?

Shocking! As for the class action law suit, are you a part of it? Then WHY would you know about it?? Don't flatter yourself Gabriel. I will not constantly justify myself or my experience to you any further on this forum. Good luck!

Oh Matt, Matt I can see tension in your last posting

First off I can see tension in your last posting. Listen If you got a class action lawsuit please state your lawyer, jurisdiction, those involved and reason for suit. If you are going to sue someone for YOUR Failure, then I pitty your involvement here in Liberty League International as you deserve to fail.

By the way did you sue your College/University, because you couldn't find a job after you spent thousands on an education. I don't think so. Do you blame the bank for encouraging you to take out an interest only loan, and 5 years later find out you are going to default because the principal payment is beyond your means? Matt, they will spit at you.

In sum, an advisor presented an opportunity to you, never put a gun to your head or forced you to do anything. It was your decision to join. From the day you signed you commited Yourself, not to Liberty League but to Yourself. So I guess you should be suing Yourself.

Matt, understand you are pointing fingers. Leave that to office politics. It wasn't the company that failed, You Failed yourself. Also, you seem like a smart man who reads caption. You know 'Results vary, you too can make more or less'. Every Organization makes this claim including American Express Financial Advisers, to avoid liability and finger pointers like yourself.

You failed because, Your ambition I must assume was lackluster, Your inclination non-existent, and work-ethic sub-par.

Matt, I know exactly what happened. You treated this opportunity like a 49.99 infomercial. Get rich quick........for nothing. Matt if you sincerely worked 100 leads per week you should have made 12K a month as our hystorical conversion rate suggests 3% to 4% per 100 individuals will sign up.

Matt for every failure like yourself. We have about 10 winners.

Another thing where's the class action suit. Shouldn't your buddies in the suit be supporting you ? At least here on the Rip-Off Report just to shut me up. LOL they don't exist, its all bogus.

What Liberty League International stands for is empowerment, gumption, and a will to succeed. Matt, I have succeeded, yes it took 14 hours a day but guess what I made it work, I am not a finger pointer. I am fully accountable for my own decisions, ambitions and success. This is what Liberty League International teaches.

Matt time to stand up and take accountability for yourself. Think about it if you took out a business loan for your business and failed. Who do you take to court ? The Bank, your business or yourself? either way you still have a loan to pay-off

Matt, YOU need to stand trial. You need to face the judge yourself, and give a sincere testimony. Almost certainly the jury will find you guilty, on several counts of ignorance, negligence, and most importantly defamation of character.

Have a good one Matt. oh and good luck on life, you have so much to learn!

Matt & Gabriel the entire thing is a pyramid scam

Matt,

Today I listend-in on their teleconference and quickly learned that the entire thing is a pyramid scam. By Gabriel's answers and his passion for trying to get his point accross and by his insistance on learning about your law suit, it is clear to me that he works for LLI or has some interest in the company other than in participating in a role similar to the one you made.

You are right. I read the thread of messages and did not see anywhere in the messages a single suggestion by you to recommend another scheme. Gabrie: You are so uptight about a potential competitor to your scheme that you see things where they are not.

I am a skeptic by nature and while I was attending the teleconference, I decided to research LLI prior to spending any more time listening to the multiple attempts to convince the listeners that they not only need to buy into the products and commit to the monthly expenses, but also to commit to spending money to go to 'exotic' places in order to attend more 'brain washing sessions'.

Matt: I wish you luck in recovering your $, and Gabriel: Aren't there more honest ways to make a living now a days???

Concerned.

First in Miami doesn't know what a pyramid is...

If someone is going to make an accusation, it's important that facts be stated accurately.

A 'pyramid' or 'pyramid scam' is a business where people are getting paid for something other than the sale of legitimate goods/services to the end consumer. For instance, if Liberty League associates were getting paid for enrolling, then, yes, that would be a violation of pyramid laws.

But, if you really attended a teleconference without preconceived ideas, then you would know that no one in Liberty League International earns money unless a sale is made.

The total signup cost for someone to become a distributor with LLI is $50. That's all. No one makes a dime on that enrollment and there are no other required purchases. Only if someone chooses to purchase a product does the enrolling sponsor get paid.

Perhaps it would be helpful if someone understood this basic defintion of legitimacy before they start claiming that a company is a 'pyramid'.

Also, as has already been mentioned, the other expenses are entirely at the discretion of the distributor. Most of them are expenses that any home-business entrepreneur should already have. For instance, most of us already have a good long distance plan and a 24-hour voicemail service. Whatever expenses an associate chooses to incur in the course of business are just that: his/her CHOICES.

Also -- and I hate to do this -- it should be noted that Gabriel is NOT an employee of Liberty League Internationa. I'm not sure why he labeled his response that way but I'm sure it wasn't intentional. He is an independent distributor of the company and neither his comments or opinions should be assessed as an 'official' statement from the company. The only people authorized to speak for the company are its principals or their appointed representatives.

I hope that is of assistance,

Do you guys really know a pyramid ?

Does anyone know what a pyramid is before they make claim to LLI being a pyramid scheme?

Here is a link? http://www.tommcmahon.net/2004/10/corporate_hiera.html
Looks like a pyramid, right ?

How about an Executive Chain of Command model

1 President/CEO - 13 % shareholder stake
2 Sr.VPs - 7 % shareholder stake (split)
3 Executive managers - '' 4.5% (split)
4 Middle Managers - '' 2.3 % (split)
5 Supervisors - '' 1.1 % (split)
6 Frontline workers - '' .03 % stake (split)

Draw this on a piece of paper and, well, well, well. We have a pyramid model. The same model that every employed American is subjected to.

Every Business model wether it be executive, IT, and Sales, follows a pyramid structure. Does that make them bad, Maybe!

Is your stake at company profits and performance a mere .03 to 13%? Probably so.

However. Liberty League International provides a business model for its associates at a mind boggling 66% company stake which equals $1,000.00 commisions per sale. This is obviously a CEO's dream. Well unless your Bill Gates.

Before individuals claim LLI is a pyramid scheme of negative connotation (which we are not). You must reflect at your current situation and job.

Yes, you are in fact employed by some pyramid model.

Yes, you are undercompensated and feel that their is something better.

Yes, you are overworked, underpaid, and lack the flexibility to spend more time with your family

Yes, you despise the fact that your boss makes more than you, for less work, and recieves all the company performance bonuses.

Or you are possibly without a job, because your company executives decided to lay YOU off. To save their asses, to improve stock performance, and make shareholders happy (which inlude themselves).

Which leads me to say:
If your job is so good, there would be no need for LLI.

However LLI understands that there are individuals who are sick and tired of being sick and tired.

I can promise anyone that if LLI was selling it's product at only 9.99 no one would be complaining of it's so called 'pyramid nature'.
But because individuals are psychologically limited to it's start-up cost, they will.

These individuals will disclaim their incompetence or lack of ambition and responsibility with, 'too expensive, must be a pyramid, this is a scam'

Funny how individuals who find this opportunity too expensive, own a 35K car, mortgaged a 350K home (interest only). Possibly own a plasma, or LCD TV. which retails between $2000-$15000, have 2 kids ready for college. Have no retirement plans. Oh, and are in debt to their eyeballs. But LLI, and the opportunity to become financially accountable and empowered is too expensive. Talk about priorities

The problem with America is that we have a 'get rich quick for nothing' mindset. There is no such thing. Even with LLI, gumption, ambition, and hard work is required.

Yes, there are many individuals including myself commanding a 120K+ salary. What sets us apart from the pack is that we believe in an 'Entrepreneurial Spirit', accountability to ourselves, and an unwithered mindset of 'success', and make no excuses for ourselves.
In sum the characteristics of leaders.

You Say You Tried?

Matt, you say you tried. By the very definition, trying has no place in running a business. You will never find an owner of a McDonalds or any other franchise say they spent their money and gave it a try. You get in business to DO! If not, you are waisting your time.

This then is not the companies problem, but your very own. I too have been working LLI for about 6 months, and have only sold one. Now I'm not gonna tell you I have worked 7 days a week, because I have not.

I have another business, and along with life itself, I have had several weeks in this period where I have done very little.

What I have discovered is in going to Cancun, MX and Dallas, Texas with LLI, the people are real, the opportunity is the best I have ever sean (I'm 43 years old) very few have been overnight succeses, but the potential is there to make a boatload in a very short period when you understand some things, and 'Truely' plug into the system.

As for what drives this business 'Prospects' looking for a home business, I have found most are not seriously looking, but rather hunting for a hoby level commitment that may also bring in some money, or a lottery mentality that they will fall into the right thing and get rich. What has happened in LLI to generate this discussion, is what happens to ALL networking businesses, when momentum hits, you have people who get talked into or get emotionaly caught up, but do not ultimately have the desire to do the work.

LLI is not easy, but it is simple. If you can follow directions, and have the desire to succeed no matter what, (we call this being coachable and trainable), you will have great results here.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. If you do not get the results that successful folks are having, the first thing you should do is counsel with someone who is where you want to be in life, and do what they do, and keep counseling until you get it right.

I wish you well,

Liberty League More Than You Think

I am willing to take my chances. After reading all the info on this site, as a LLI associate, I am more committed than ever. As a former CEO, an MBA and MS from an Ivy League school, I was ready to take my fate into my own hands. I have made some money and will make more, of that I have no doubt. I am also a partner in two restaurants, and following the logic that has been expounded on this site, I should have sued my banker for making a loan to get us started because he should have protected me from myself during our difficult years, two of which came after 9/11. We worked especially hard during that time, and had to borrow money to keep going, but never doubted it would eventually turn around. That is the heart of an entrepreneur.

It seems to me that the point of the debate over LLI centers around a concept which I - among others - am ready to forego. I was raised to work hard, for others, at their beck and call. To be a professional, to be educated. I am quite happy that I did as it made me a thinking person. But did it give me the opportunity for self-determination. No. I will neither extol the virtues of Liberty League nor discredit them. I will, however, extol the opportunity to reach beyond my former limits and discover -through Beyond Freedom and the conferences- a new way of approaching life. Is it worth $1495...a whole lot less than therapists and others who will tell us that they have the answer to our dilemnas. It is everyone's personal responsibility to decide for themselves. No one else makes us or breaks us. I have never felt a need to pressure anybody as I am fully aware that this is not for everybody. Will I make millions of dollars. I don't know. But I have the satisfaction of knowing that it is up to me, not - as Matt says - out of hard work. That is not the answer. It is up to me for the ability to do it. There are plenty of skeptics out there, and from the BBB to WAHM, they all want money to discredit others. When I was called by Mike Bromell, who is now marketing for IGI, he didn't want to tell me the benefits of his company, he just wanted to vent. At Liberty League, I have found an unusual breed of people, with a higher purpose in life, only part of which is making money. The people I work with, that I prospect, understand that as it is the base purpose of LLI. Do I understand why people are skeptics, of course. It is what we are conditioned to do. Does LLI make money from selling leads - yes - so what? They are in business. This is my business; I expect to make money and I will run my business holding the highest ideals - I make that clear to everyone I speak with. I believe that the majority of associates do as well. Is the personal mentoring true? Yes, whenever I need assistance, it's there. Is it get rich quick? No. Nor is it the lotto. But it's legit. It raises the standard.

And Matt, you stated that there was a class action suit against Liberty League and never did answer the inquiry regarding the details of that. If you cannot, I propose that you withdraw the statement, as that would be a measure of your integrity. My observation would be that you were in it ONLY for the money rather than any sincere desire for personal growth.

Classic MLM Scam

This is a textbook example of a recruitment-based MLM (pyramid). Hop on over to the Liberty League International website and see if you can find information, ANY information as to what the company offers, or what the company does. I'll save you the grief, you won't find anything other than oily-slick testimonial videos that expound the good life, freedom, life-changing moments, and various other dreck; all designed with the sole purpose of luring in the unwary sucker.

Just to 'buy in' to the program requires a significant frontload($$$)–and you're going to 'pay to play'. You'll be 'selling' a product that doesn't have a market, and be encouraged to 'buy up' to the next level (and insuring that you'll go broker, quicker!).

I am absolutely, positively sure that the chances of profitable success with this scam is ZERO. It's an unlimited pyramid that is designed for failure.

I would encourage anyone who says they are successful with this to post their tax returns for the last couple of years so we may ALL see your financial accomplishments. My guess is there will be no takers.

Comments from an Outsider

I listened to Liberty League's Business Presentation a week ago Sunday and while conducting my due diligence I ran across this site and couldn't help but post a couple of comments and ask a couple of questions, especially of Matt in Pennsylvania.

First of all, Matt, no where in your posts do I read that you actually USED the product you were attempting to sell. What's your opinion of the product? And based on the numbers you are throwing around, I have to assume that you purchased a Conference but no where do I see you address your experience at the Conference. I'd be interested in your opinion of both the Beyond Freedom Personal Development course as well as the Conferences.

After I listened to the Business Presentation the advisor called me back and then some other advisor answered my questions. I understand this is common practice as the company touts its no selling, telling or explaining policy. Which, so far, I have found to be pretty much true. The guy I've talked to hasn't strong-armed me or used any aggressive sales tactics. As far as you not being told you would have ongoing business expenses, did you ask and were given misinformation or did you simply not ask before you joined?

After initially reading your posts I did contact the advisor again (I'm considering two other direct sales companies at the moment)and asked about getting my money back should I join. He explained to me that I have the right to return the Beyond Freedom program after I've had 3 days to look it over. Did you ask for a refund and NOT receive it within that three day window? I also asked about refunds on the Conference ticket and was told up-front they are non-refundable. Can you expand on the grounds you're requesting a refund (i.e. was the Conference not up to your expectations or did it not take place?). Did they change the rules after you bought your ticket?

Respectfully, Matt, Liberty League is a direct sales organization. You make a sale. You get paid. But anyone with any kind of business sense knows you have to be able to stand behind your product. I mean, you can get fired at Budweiser for drinking a Coors beer. That's good ole American capitalism ... stand behind what you sell! I am hoping to gather some concrete information on your experience with the products and if the company is in violation of any represented policies or procedures in order to assist me in making a decision here. No offense, Matt, but I'd like to hear exactly how Liberty League ripped you off versus you simply voicing your frustrations in a public forum.

I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT HEY SELL !!!

I have been trying to get information about this company. I have received phone calls from Matt Thomas in North Carolina. I cannot say anything that would be a negative or derogatory remark about this company because they never get around to to telling you what they sell. They seem to focus on making money and will ask you 'how much money do you need per month to live like you want ?' Well I have to tell everyone out there that earning money is a good thing, money isn't everything though. I SUSPECT THIS COMPANY IS BASED UPON A MUTLI-LEVEL-MARKETING MODEL AND THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP OF THE TRIANGLE GET ALL OR MOST OF THE PROFIT.

MATT IN PENNSYLVANIA SEEMS TO HAVE A GRASP OF THE SITUATION, BUT HE IS INVESTED INTO THIS COMPANY AND FROM WHAT HE SAYS HE 'GAVE IT HIS ALL.' I am a teacher, I have a Master's in Education. I am at a crossroads in my life and was simply looking for another opportunity. I would advise anyone whom is considering putting up money to proceed with caution. ONE SHOULD NOT OR OUGHT NOT HAVE TO PUT MONEY UP FRONT AS A PRIVILEGE TO RECEIVE LEADS OR SELL A COMPANY'S PRODUCT. PLAIN AND SIMPLE COMMEN SENSE WILL DEMANDS ATTENTION TO THIS VERY BASIC RULE OF THUMB.

Sincerely Best Regards to all.

What they sell is clearly presented....

If I may, here are some clarifications that will hopefully assist Richard:

Richard said, 'I have been trying to get information about this company. . . I cannot say anything that would be a negative or derogatory remark about this company because they never get around to to telling you what they sell.'

REPLY: I'm genuinely confused at how someone could review any information about Liberty League and not know what the products are. Nearly the entire website (http://www.libertyleague.com/start) is product driven and the guest presentations explain the business opportunity in a way that's clearly tied to the sale of products to the end consumer.

The products are these: The Beyond Freedom Home Study Course (a 90-day multimedia personal development course), the Liberty Conference (a 4-day all-inclusive event for two) and the Summit Conference (a 5-day all inclusive event for two). Obviously I won't presume to detail each one here but these products are clearly described on the corporate website as well as their guest presentations.

----
Richard said, ''I SUSPECT THIS COMPANY IS BASED UPON A MUTLI-LEVEL-MARKETING MODEL AND THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP OF THE TRIANGLE GET ALL OR MOST OF THE PROFIT.'

REPLY: Actually, the opposite is true. In an MLM (as you describe) the profits are shared by people in the 'upline'. Liberty League is a direct sales company and only ONE person earns money when a sale is made: the Advisor who makes the sale.

In other words, if the person you were speaking to was a qualified Advisor, he/she would be the only one to earn money if you choose to buy the product.

--
Richard said, 'I would advise anyone whom is considering putting up money to proceed with caution. ONE SHOULD NOT OR OUGHT NOT HAVE TO PUT MONEY UP FRONT AS A PRIVILEGE TO RECEIVE LEADS OR SELL A COMPANY'S PRODUCT. PLAIN AND SIMPLE COMMEN SENSE WILL DEMANDS ATTENTION TO THIS VERY BASIC RULE OF THUMB.'

REPLY: Richard, respectfully, this is the mindset of an employee, not a merchant. If Liberty League was a company who was offering a 'job' to you, then you'd be correct.

But, this is not a 'work at home job'. Liberty League is about owning your own business. It's about engaging in free enterprise. And if you know of any business owner who earns a six-figure income and has never had to spend money, I'd be interested in seeing it. (So would Ripley's Believe-It-Or-Not.) All legitimate businesses have overhead and marketing expenses. Why wouild you assume Liberty League would be any different?

I hope that assists you,

Liberty League's mystery business

After past experiences with Amway and JewelWay (a failed startup by a group of former Amway-ers that sold counterfeit and misrepresented jewelery-I know, I still have it), I can say the FIRST sign of a business to be wary of is the total lack of information about 'the deal' unless you attend a meeting or make contact with someone in the business.

I checked the LLI web site and there is NO INFORMATION about the product(s) it sells there. I've never heard of them outside of my research this week. People I've spoken to have no idea what LLI sells.

At least with Amway, you know what you're getting. Being sneaky always means they're hiding something.

Why not brag about what they're selling? Implying that you need to have the cojones to succeed in their business is classic, bald-faced bullying, plain and simple.

When LLI 'comes out of the closet', they'll become worthy of the interest of honest people. They can stay in their exclusive club. What a corny, old school sales pitch. Too bad I had to be victimized twice before I could see through that nonsense.

Do you guys have eyes?

Vic said, 'I checked the LLI web site and there is NO INFORMATION about the product(s) it sells there...Why not brag about what they're selling?'

REPLY: Are you guys quite sure you're going to the right website?? Let me help you out.

The corporate site is at http://www.libertyleague.com/start. At the top of the page is a clearly-marked heading that says 'WHAT WE DO'. Once clicking this, you have four sub-options, THREE OF WHICH are completely devoted to the company's products.

Additionally, there's more than TWO HOURS OF STREAMING VIDEO ON THAT SITE that gives information on the company, the product and the opportunity.

Seriously. Several here have claimed that they can't find any information on product but they're evidently not looking in the right place. The broad strokes are there and, like any serious consumer, anyone interested in a closer look will contact a representative and request more info.

It's not rocket science, guys. :)

No problem finding out what Liberty League sells

I've been very interested in what Liberty League has to offer due to this report so I did look up the Liberty League website. I had no problem finding out they offer a program (for $1500!) and some conferences. I just clicked on the tab that indicated 'purchase', filled in the info, and voila! there were the items they offer. Sure, I had to give name, address, etc., but big deal. I don't answer any phone calls where I don't recognize the caller I.D. incoming #; if they send me junk email, I think I can handle deleting it, or blocking it if they send 100s per day. It may be a ripoff, or it may not be, I can't say, but navigating the website was certainly clear and easy.

Product information is well-hidden, but it's there.

Call me dense (it wouldn't be the first time!), but I would expect that product information would be under a link called, oh, I don't know, 'Products', or maybe 'What We Sell' or perhaps 'Product Information'. Actually it's under the 'What we do' link, where we find that this business is 'Inspiring', 'Paradigm-changing', and 'Life-changing'.

There are three products. The flagship product is a 90-day multimedia 'Personal Development' program (think CD's and a workbook here) that retails for $1495. Sell one of these and keep $1000; LLI gets the other $495.

Please note that you don't get ANY of the profit until you sell FIVE of these. Your 'Advisor' (the person who signed you up), takes all the profit until YOU have made the fifth sale. There is a catch. If you actually 'buy-in' and purchase the product, then each sale you make will be added to your Advisor's sales until five sales are made. Congratulations! You are now an Advisor and will start raking in the profits with each sale you make.

All three products are based on this premise of buying-in and then making four sales to get Advisor status.

The second and third products are high-ticket items that amount to nothing more than VERY expensive vacations, and are sold in the same fashion as the Beyond Freedom course.

The Liberty Conference is a week-long jaunt to a resort for what appears to be a week of hard partying with the 'beautiful people'(watch the video) and retails for $7995, $5000 of which is your profit. Prior 'conferences' were in Cancun and Oahu.

The Summit Conference is like the 'Liberty' except the location (and the price) is more exotic. This sucker retails for $12995 and if you sell one of these you keep $8000 in profit. The last two Summit Conferences were at Athens, Greece and Fiji.

I can get a book or a CD at a bookstore that is the equivalent of the Beyond Freedom course for about $20.00; I travel extensively for my business and can get the same vacations for 20-30% of these prices.

I can imagine that if LLI was conducting business in the real world, they would rapidly become bankrupt. The products are nowhere near competitive with real-world economy. There is just no market for this stuff at these prices.

Email from Ex- Liberty leaguer

LLI'ers or LL Liars?

1. I know for fact that the so called live conference calls, are recorded ( if they weren't I'd be there speaking my mind, you can count on that)

2. I know for fact (because they have admitted to us on the phone) that people out there right now advertising that they have made over 100,000 a month with LLI, have not made a dime.

3. I know for fact that the reason the LLI numbers seems to stay stagnant (no growth) is that the rate of failure to success is about 98% failure to 2% success. I also know that most of the people within that elite and apparently conscience free group, sickens me every time I see their names or faces. No, I'm not a sore loser as we are very successful currently with a different and legitimate business. I'm disgusted because I talk to people every day who are bullied into thinking that somehow they are stupid for not getting a second mortgage on their house to come up with the 12,000 summit ticket.

4. I know that the training calls once you get involved 'teach' you (you may in fact already believe in these tactics, in which case good for you and bad for those you pray on)to deceive people into thinking you are a millionaire. There is a difference between the idea of 'living as if you are successful and therefore you will become successful) This doesn't mean you lie to people or misrepresent a set of realities in order to get them believe an opportunity is better and more of a sure thing than it is.

5. I know that we were 'guaranteed' while on our 3-way before joining that if we did everything they told us, WE COULD NOT FAIL. The simple fact they guranteed us anything makes it illegal.

6. I know that a friend of mine wrote to her sponsor in regard to some of her thoughts and concerns and he wrote back and I quote 'Other people's success or falure is of no consequence to myself' Nice guy.

7. I know that we prospected over 300 leads while involved with LLI and did not get a single person on board, on the otherhand with our new business we talk to maybe 5 people a day and get 1-2 of them on board. That should tell you something about the difference in opportunities as I can assure you we did not undergo some miraculous transformation that improved our ability to talk to people effectively.

I could continue and believe me I will at a later time but for now I'm going to let the LL Liars, if they dare, waste their time trying to convince you that what I've told you is not true. I'm always very amazed at how much time they spend here trying to squelch the voices of the people who know the truth. The time I spend here is for anyone about to spend their hard earned money on something that will send them into a deeper hole than one they might already be in. In summation, Liberty League and it's Liars disgust me! I would happy to talk to anyone on this topic.

Liberty League is now a grey area for me

I was about ready to jump on board with Liberty League, but now thanks to this website I will save my money, and yes I am one of those already in debt and Liberty League would have exposed me and put me further in debt.

A company with 'morals' I think not. I am wondering if all the positive feedback for Liberty League aren't fictional characters, or just one person posting several postings making all the names and locations up.

Pretty intelligent individual whoever you are, but we are on to you. I remember another corrupt company out of Scottdale, Arizonal, CP Direct, selling longitude, and they were sued and lost heavy !!

I am wondering if this is the same people re-surfacing. Not gonna purchase Beyond Freedom anymore, thanx everyone. Lin I would like to talk to you. Did you actually purchase the program or consider it ?

I'm Lucky, I only lost the Beyound Freedom level.

I was with LLI also and I was wondering if those pictures on Tony's Website are from the Super Saturday in Dallas TX. Tony looks familure to me.
I know that it can be done as I met people their that were very sincere, I had a feeling of finally coming home after knowing that there must be a family to belong to. Like going to a new church for the first time, everybody is glad you came and welcomes you in hoping that you'll stay and become a memeber. That sort of thing.

I had such high hopes, and was about to loose my wife over this decision, as I found out that most the other guys at the Super Saterday Conference (without there wives) were in the same boat. As the night progressed I met my Summit Advisor (SA, this is the main supervisor 2 guys up) and my Liberty Advisor (LA, 1 guy up) for the first time and had a great time talking to them, and was introduced to many of their friends and business associates.
Everything was going fine until my SA turned to a friend of his and said 'Guess what, this guy hasn't bought the Liberty Conference (LC) ticket yet, (which is $7000.00 to get the ticket plus the plane fare and other items needed to take a trip out of the country or where ever) want to talk to him about it.
At this point my SA's friend turned his attention on me and started to push me into buying the LC. The berating and badgering went on for some time. I was told to get the money together, beg, borrow or steal, just get it as you don't want to pass people up to your LA or SA as you aren't qualified at those levels.
My argument was, if the system that we are selling won't support itself then how am I supposed to support the system? I was going to sell the Beyond Freedom Courses ((BFC) you make $1000.00 for every BFC sold) until I had the $7000.00 to purchase the LC plus maybe a couple more for the plane fair. I didn't care if I was going to be passing these people up that might have bought their LC or Summit Conference (SC) tickets from me, to my LA or SA, I didn't care, I like my LA and SA, they were helping me right? I just wanted the system to work for me.
At the time I was so far into debt that I really had a hard time buying the BFC at $1495.00 let alone purchase a $7000.00 ticket.
Anyway, this wasn't the answer that this guy wanted to hear and kept on saying you can come up with the money somehow, some way.! I said that the only way I'd be able to come up with the ticket is to sell one of my Kidneys for $10,000.00 (which I said jokingly) he said, do it, you only need one! With that I looked him dead in the eye and saw that he was serious and that was when I started getting a little mad. From then on, (as far as I was conserned) the conversation was over. I stood up and looked him in the eye (as he was already standing) and made a stance as if I wasn't going to be moved on this one and the conversation was over. With that he turned and disappeared into the crowd.
I looked back at my SA and said, 'Do you believe that,' My SA just looked at me and smiled and started talking to another person.

Like Caryn, (she's can be found in other decisions, talking about LLI) I had a problem with telling people to get a second mortgage, or sell their homes or kidneys, pocket their hard earned money for the first two people that they bring in and tell them to do it again to further their carreer. If you buy the $1495.00 BFC your LA and SA are supposed to help you with the other people to get a total of 5 to be qualified.
Also I know that once you are in so deep with this program (after you've paid $7000.00 for LC or $12000.00 for SC) you just can't throw it all away and say I made a mistake and should've seen the writing on the wall. You have to keep going, you've probably burnt all your bridges and told your friends and family members that they are wrong for not believing in you enough to allow you to pay such money into this program. If you don't make it work by the time you've spent the $19,000.00 on both the programs you're name will be Mudd. It's a numbers game but the numbers are stacked against you. I figure you'd have to talk to over 100,000 to 500,000 people to get lucky enough to find the right person to join Liberty League. This person would have to have the $20500.00 to go BF, LC and SC all at the same time. Would have to be partly gullible, partly a risk taker and someone that wouldn't worry to much about loosing the $20500.00 if it didn't work out. I'm sure some of the LAs and SAs did getlucky and found one of these people within the first week or so. I heard of one lady that was widowed and took the money that her husband left her and bought BFC, LC and SC all at once. Now find me 5 people like that and you can make it at Liberty League, it's that simple.
So I got to thinking about the owners of Liberty League, if they have 15000 people making the phone calls that Caryn talked about in another posting, then it would be possible to maintain the Liberty League interprise with as little as 3 to 5% retention in the phone force. Even with such a small percentage of increase, none the less, it's still an increase. In the mean time you may be one of the honest few that are having a problem with your consience and want to help people instead of hurt them. This is why you have to get use to hanging up on people and moving on to the next. Numbers numbers, numbers, pump the numbers. For those of you that were led in believe in the LLI story but were turned off with the person that you were talking to as they didn't want to answer your specific questions, that's because it is written in the script to do that. If you are new to LLI in the Script you tell the lead that you are calling that there is no selling, explaining or telling, but the lead still may have questions and want to know a few things before getting started. You push them to the 20 min. conference call that is starting soon and the questions can be answered their.
True, if you still have questions, call this person back that talked to you and ask to speak with their Liberty Advisor or Summit Advisor. They will be more than happy to answer your questions. When you first start calling the prospect leads that you've spent so much money and time into getting you still are supposed to just let them go if they ask to many questions. I don't see how you can keep doing business that way unless you are the Owners and only are looking for the select few that I talked about earilier. Enough said...

As far as the BFC, I found that it is a very powerfull personal development course (PDC) and is unlike anything I've ever heard before. I've been listening to other PDCs for many years and felt that LLIs BFC is a combination of everything that I've heard all put into a very slick package. When you first get the package and look at it you are pretty disappointed, I paid $1495.00 for 3 cds, a DVD note book and pin? Still I really felt that it was worth $1495.00 after listening to it for the way in which the info was presented. There is a lot of power talks, life changing info in the package. The Super Saturday was the same, and I'm sure if I had made it to the LC and SC I'd be pumped up even more. I really struggled with the decision to leave as I really felt that LLI could have worked if it weren't for the fact that you need to put so much into it to get it going, but once and if you got it going it would be hard to stop and the people under you would be doing most of the weeding on the phones leaving you to mentor and train the newbies that came into your orginazation.
I was putting out 10000 emails a day, calling every chance I got, the problem is the quality of leads that you have are from people that filled out a survay to get a free toaster or some giveaway item to get them to fill it out. So the lead that you are getting isn't the quality that you are looking for. To get those kind of leads that you'd need would cost easly $500.00 to $1000.00 per lead or more (If you were a SA and you could make $13,000.00 off of a qualified lead, wouldn't you easly pay for it?)

I too have found something like Caryn that allows me to sleep at night, and am glad that my wife is with me on it. I will be eventually making as much with this new program as I would with LLI. I could've made it with LLI if I had the stomach and the callused heart to look people in the eye and tell them that they aren't doing enough if they haven't sold there car, home etc to get the money together to buy the tickets to the seminars.

Anyway I'm sure someone will take me to task over this as I see the bantering back and forth that goes on here. The only thing I can say before the bantering games begin is, it is my story, and this is what happened to me.

------------------

What are these others businesses you all have found?

What are these other 'legitimate' businesses you all have found? I would be interested to research them further.

Thanks!

Simply amazing

I listened in last night to the 'live' presentation and am amazed at how deceptive people can be. As a former 'Amway' distributor, I guess I saw this LLI as just another con like all the rest have been. God put us on the earth to live and prosper BUT not at the expense of cheating others. All I can see in LLI is another way of taking peoples money for very little return. As one comment here wrote(Tom) 'I can go to a book store and buy the equivelant Book for $20.... and buy a vacation for 20-35% less. HMMM... isn't that just amazing! What some people will do to get unsuspecting peoples money. And then when people realize what has happened they have no recourse. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I can make a good living HONESTLY and not cheat a single person. I can take a good vacation with the kids for 20% and probably have more fun than NEEDING to attend the 'exotic' lifestyles I listened to on the phone. Your thinking right now,,I won't make half or one fourth of what you make a year or even in a month-- you know, 'MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL'. If I never make or see more than what I make now, at least I am happy.

lin - what other companies???

lin had said he had found other legit companies he was having success with.. I was looking at liberty league and just about to join before I came across this forum... you said you would talk to anyone about you the company you found and it would sure help me with my decision..

Seen people like these before...

How does this list measure with the types of people that run Liberty League?

Cult Check list!

1. The group is focused on a living charismatic leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
3. The group is preoccupied with making money.
4. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
5. Mind-numbing techniques (for example: meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group or its leader(s).
6. The group's leadership dictates – sometimes in great detail – how members should think, act, and feel.
7. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
8. The group has a polarized, 'we-they' mentality that causes conflict with the wider society.
9. The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, clergy with mainstream denominations).
10. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means (for example: collecting money for bogus charities) that members would have considered unethical before joining.
11. The group's leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to
control them.
12. Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with
family, friends, and personal pre-group goals and interests.
13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

Use a credit card...I got my Money back!!!

Unfortunately I 'was' a victim, but because of the person that enrolled me.... (Mr. Glenn Mosser) was so greedy and wanted to ripp me off so fast, he allowed me to pay thru Paypal , basically with my credit card.

He had promised me a position in his 'expensive' coop advertising campaign worth thousands and when he fell short, I was able to file reports through state officials, credit card companies and Liberty league<---(useless), I got my money back!

He held on to my money for two weeks before sending it to LLI which was the first red flag, then never responded to my request for information about the 'COOP'. This obviously was his way of recruiting people, promising them thousands of $$$ in LEADS!

BUT HE NEVER DELIVERED ON THE PROMISE!

I filed a report on this website. check it out if you want.

BUT the motto of my story is,.....

always use a credit card, believe it or not they do protect you against fraudulant charges. It takes time and patience to get a refund, but eventually you do!

If you can prove that the merchant did not deliver the item or service, like I did, they protect you!

Stay away from comapnies that ask for money orders, that right there tells you they don't want a trace on the money being moved around. Had I paid with a money order, I would have never have gotten a refund.

LLI attorneys sent me an email stating that I was not owed a refund because of the 3 day look period. LLI doesn't care if people are ripping off other individuals to sell packages, they hide behind the attorneys they pay thousans of dollars to push papers.


Look into the company before you buy anything, spend time researching the net.

And go with your gut feeling!

Cult,Scheme, Scam, Pyramid????

I cannot believe I am now participating in this forum and wasn't even aware of this 'discussion' until a potential associate brought it to my attention. I am an independent distributor with Liberty League and have been for 1 1/2 years.

I am also am a former banker - 16 yrs in exec. mgt and skeptical by nature. I am completing my masters in psychology specializing in adolescents and children. I tell you this just to let you know I wasn't scammed into working with LLI.

The reference to cult similarities I find offensive. The comments regarding 'hard partying' may be true for some but as an alcoholic with 5 years in recovery I have never felt the least bit uncomfortable with other LLI families. Yes, I said families as children are welcome at the events. The comments as to 'brain-washing' at the Liberty and Summit events are interesting. Please do your due diligence on speakers such as Andy Andrews who published a best selling book The Traveler's Gift, Michael Lozier and Bill Phillips who wrote Body for Life who have been featured speakers at our most recent events. I don't know if this was brain-washing or not but many of us did participate in a body for life challenge to lose body fat. Bill Phillips pledged to donate $$ for every lb of body fat participants lost and many LLI associates chose to match this with funds going to the make-a-wish foundation. I know this is pretty SCARY stuff.

As for the income opportunity - What were some of you looking for? I have to assume all wasn't fabulous in your world or you wouldn't be looking for a home based business. When one wants to work for oneself - it is assumed that there will be some start-up costs and a learning curve involved in the new venture. As a therapist I can only say that the Beyond Freedom program is a cognitive behavior based self study program that if used for 90 days as recommended is no more expensive than therapy for the same period. I became interested in the income opportunity only after seeing the changes in a friend that was using the program.

I made a choice to be involved in LLI and have not regretted it for one minute. It is amazing that a group of people,like those I've had the pleasure of meeting in LLI, who are trying to make positive changes in their own lives and help others can inspire so much skepticism, criticism, fear, resentment ect. You should have met some of the people I worked with in banking and seen the profit and management structure there....This is a business and yes Virginia, there is a profit motive - that doesn't make it a scam - I'll try to remember from banking: Gross profit - cost of goods sold = net income. Not good or evil - just capitalism. Welcome to America.

Yeah, Well ...

I've watched my oldest brother play the LLI game for the past several months. He's finally gotten an hourly job in his former field again so that he could buy groceries and get his phone service restored.

Me? I'm self-employed for the past two years. My wife & I develop websites & build custom web applications and program database projects for customers locally and in other parts of the country. We don't make enough money to call ourselves rich (i.e., the LLI lure of $150,000+ per year), but we see continual growth in our company revenues and we are able to work from our home. The phone and the lights and the heat are still on, and we have dinner together with our kids as a family almost every night. We're getting by.

The thing is, our revenue is developed entirely from a service that we provide to our customers. We propose projects and set a price, and customers either choose to buy or to NOT buy.

Sure, we appreciate referrals and word-of-mouth advertising. What business doesn't? And we do recognize customers that steer additional business our way. Maybe they get a notebook with our logo on it or a bottle of wine at Christmas.

But ... our clients don't HAVE TO recruit a certain number of additional customers for us.

Before I was self-employed, I was the regional sales manager for a media company. I covered three states and was responsible for a multi-million dollar annual revenue budget. I earned an override from my sales reps' output, but they earned the lion's share of personal income from their business ... not me.

Is LLI's business model honest and ethical?

At the end of the day, that's all I have: honesty, and personal ethics. I know that I've done my level best to help my customers, and I can hear their words of praise on the phone or in person or via e-mail. I know that they appreciate what we have done, and that our service is valuable to them. They tell me so.

Any time I see a business model that requires me to sell a certain number of products or recruit a certain number of 'consultants' before I see a dime of revenue, the warning flags go up. LLI is one of those 'warning flag' opportunities.

If you're making that $150,000+ per year with LLI? Congratulations.

And if you can do it while looking yourself squarely in the eye every morning? My hat is off to you.

I may not be knocking down the income I want (yet), but I can look myself in the eye over the bathroom sink, day or night. That's one of the things that matters most to me.

I have found Mecca

What is the the real worth of the LLI 'Beyond Freedom' course? It's somewhere between USD $9.00 and $12.50. How do I know? I did a search on eBay, the ultimate arbiter of junk product worth, and graveyard for failed MLM product.

So today I truly feel doubly blessed. I learned (it's a cognitive thing...) that I can purchase a brand new $1495 LLI product for less than $10, and I learned that same $10 is worth 90 days of therapy.

Time To Move On...

To everyone who is looking into Liberty League as a 'legitimate' home based business opportunity...you might want to keep looking...

There comes a time in every entrepreneur's career when he or she must decide if their business is going to be able to sustain their financial goals for the future. I have been involved with Liberty League for quite some time, and in that time have had some financial success.

But for various reasons over the last few weeks, I have been forced to ask myself if Liberty League was not only going to help me sustain the financial goals that I have established for my family and I, but more importantly was Liberty League still a company that I could feel good about being a part of...was the level of integrity with the company in fact solid.

The answers to these questions came very definitively over the last several weeks based on several unexpected events, and I have no doubt that my decision to move on to a greater and more prosperous opportunity was the right one.

For those of you who are reading this post, I commend you for doing your homework on Liberty League. If you have any questions regarding the business, the products, or about my decision to transition my business to another opportunity, please feel free to contact me. Whether you are interested in the opportunity or not, I think you would greatly benefit from hearing first hand what has transpired over the last several weeks with regard to my affiliation with Liberty League.

Kindest Regards,
Joe

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

Arizona AG vs. Libertly League

Liberty League Settlement infoz:

http://www.azag.gov/press_releases/may/2006/LibertyLeagueSettlement.pdf

Liberty League to Pay 100K for False Claims

Please do your homework - it is true Liberty League is out for your money. And in quite a bit of trouble according to the Arizona Attorney General's office.

I had someone mention this Liberty League program to me, and they stated they were an 'advisor' - its not impossible to make money selling someone elses products, but you stand a bigger chance of losing your own money than gaining financial independence. Always research these things.
Remember, always try to sell your own products, buying into a bogus pyramid scheme like Liberty is too risky. Save yourself some money, go to the library, check out some books, they're free!

And lastly, if the system was so great, so amazing, it would not be shared. The only reason the 'system' is being marketed to you is because your money becomes their money.

Hey LLI, I heard Burger King is Hiring

I am so happy with what is happening with LLI. I was accosted by a member a few years back about joining LLI. I was fresh out of college and still getting my taste of the real world.

Well anyway, when I told the guy I didn't have the money to join he went on about how I don't have what it takes to make it in this world and that I should go back home and live with mom and dad because I am destined to be a loser in life.

I didn't say I wasn't interested because I didn't want to do it, or that I requested proof of what they were shoveling...no, I just couldn't afford to spend $2000 to start a job...

Which btw, I couldn't understand at the time that it would cost me money to go to work...I thought that contradicted everything I was taught...even from kindergarten....I thought you go to work to make money, not spend it....but anyway...they guy was really out of line and I just want to let him know that I like my burgers without pickles.

Regards,

Daniel
Memphis, TN

scam

Matt, Your Right. Thanks a lot. You save me a lot of money and time.

David

Att