Report: Majestic Innovations
Category: Advertising / Deceptive
Majestic Innovations, Symmetry Direct, Pyramid Scheme, Fraudulent Job Opportunities, Scam, Lying Company Ripoff Grand Rapids Michigan
*Consumer Comment ..I'm a little confused
Rebuttal Box
Respond to this report!
Are you an owner, employee or ex-employee with either negative or positive information about the company or can you provide "insider information" on this company? Victim of this person/company?
Are you also a victim of the same company or person? Want Justice? File a Ripoff Report and don´t let them get away with it!
Majestic Innovations
Fax:
Grand Rapids, Michigan,
U.S.A.
Submitted: 1/24/2006 10:13:38 AM
Modified: 5/12/2007 11:37:41 PM
Amie
Grand Rapids, MichiganMajestic Innovations, aka Symmetry Direct, has contacted me numerous times. This information is posted on my blog,but since the company has filed a complaint to have it removed from search engines, and from blogger (which is censorship, and un-American) I wanted to also share it here:
Majestic Innovations Grand Rapids, MI
This company has repeatedly called and harassed me regarding 'full or part time work.' However, make no mistake about it, this company is a pyramid scheme. What they will do is call you and ask if you are looking for full or part time employment. ( How they get your name and number, I have no idea, but my guess is Monster.com or something equal.) They then tell you to come in for a 'group' interview where they will show more information. All it is is a meeting for you to sell their crap vitamins and other products.
Now, here is my problem with them. They have called me over the past year and a half more than 10 times. Each time, I tell them that I am not interested, and to not call me again. However, they called again yesterday, and I let them have it. I called the guy back, Lewis Martin, or something like that, and told him, I was not interested in their selling scheme, to take me off their list, and to never call me again. He responded that they don't have a list, and asked me if I was interested in employment. I again told him that I wasn't interested and to never call me again. He got angry when I told him I had already been to one of their meetings, and told me that I was talking about the wrong company. I infomed him that I knew damn well what I was talking about, and that if their company, or anyone from it ever called me again, that I would call the police. After hanging up, I filed a complaint with the BBB of Grand Rapids. I also noticed that they had a website. The website that is listed on the BBB of Grand Rapids, Michigan is http://www.symmetrydirect.com/twoodcox/. Interestingly enough, there is a 'contact' page. With an email address for a Tim Woodcox. I emailed him, and told him under no uncertain cirumstances that I was tired of harassment from his company,and that if they ever called me again, I would go to the police for harassment. This is the reply that he sent back:
Amie,
I am sorry to hear that you have been contacted 4 times by one of our independant distributors. We do not use a monster search site or anything of the sort. I don't know who called you. If you were contacted by someone in my office it was because someone else outside of our business referred your name to them. Majestic Innovations opened in March of 2005. Again I am sorry. I have told your name to everyone in my office. I hope that no one will ever accedently call you again. Have a nice day.
~Tim Woodcox
p.s.
Money pyramid schemes are illegal. We operate good ethical business. I take pesonal offense to being called a negative pyramid scheme. I understand you are confused about our company though. Good luck to you.
His email address btw is timwoodcox@yahoo.com.
Now there are a few things that I find wrong with his email. First of all, his name, and his information IS LISTED as being the contact person for the name of the company, the phone number of the company, and the website of the company that is listed and registered with the West Michigan Better Business Bureau. Secondly, no one outside of their 'business' would be stupid enough to give MY name, and MY phone number to them. I don't buy that. And if that is the case, then why in the world would they consistently call and ask if I was interested in full or part time employment? (He's a liar is my guess. I have no doubt that they pulled this info off of Monster or something similar.) Majestic Innovations, did NOT open in March of 2005. I know this because I went to a meeting at their company, at the same damn address listed for the BBB last JULY.... that's JULY of 2004. So for him to claim that their company got its start in March of 2005, is a little suspicious to me! And finally, I am not confused one bit about his company. They sell vitamins to thier 'employees' who in turn get other people in to their meetings, and get them to sell vitamins and so on and so forth. No matter what you call it, it IS a pyramid scheme. Give me a freaking break.
So, do me a favor, call, write, and harass this company, and file numerous complaints with RipoffReport. They are unethical, unbusinesslike, and unprofessional, and I think that they shouldn't even be in the 'business.'
And to those who find this in a search engine, don't fall for it. Majestic Innovations in Grand Rapids Michigan IS a pyramid scheme!!!!!
FOLLOW UP:
So I finally heard back about my complaint with the Better Business Bureau. This guy, Tim Woodcox, is either retarded, or a complete liar who thinks he won't get away with it. This is his response:
BBB PROB
From: Tim Woodcox [timwoodcox@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 11:05 AM
To: bbbprob@iserv.net
Subject: RE: #13005511
Page 1 of 2
10/20/2005
Dear Mr. Bob Morris:
Thank you for your help in resolvong this dispute. I received your notice on Tuesday October 11th. I also
received an email from Ms. Amie XXXXX about this same situation. Both notifications came to a me as a
suprise.
Before this week, I had never heard of her name. From what I understand someone in our business had
contacted her after she was referred to them by someone they had met with. To my knowledge it was the first
time that anyone in our office (Majestic Innovations) had contacted her.
Her complaint says that Majestic Innovations repeatedly contacted her. I know that is not true. Everyone who
chooses to work out of this office is an independant business partner who works on a 1099 income. I guess it
may be possible that someone who was another independant representative with Symmetry could have contacted
her in the past. I think she is confused about all these calls being from Majestic Innovations. I opened Majestic
Innovations on March 1st, 2005. It is an independent training center for independent representatives who choose
to build a part-time or full-time business. She says that she was contacted a year ago. That is not possible for the
call to be from Majestic Innovations. I know she received one call from my office by a gentleman named Louis.
Louis had no way of knowing she had been called before from another company. Her name was given to him
from someone he had met with about our business.
She had mentioned to Louis that someone named Amy had called her or met her in that past. We don't know
who that is. No Amy has ever worked in this office. Symmetry has independant representatives in 15 countries
across the world. It is possible that someone else in that past called her. It wasn't anyone from Majestic
Innovations. We now have her name posted in our office as someone to never call again no matter who might
ever refer her name in the future. We don't recieve names from any sort of name search or data base like Ms. Amie XXXXX had suggested to me in her email. We don't do any telemarketing so there isn't even a list to remove
her name from as she suggested.
I have attached a copy of the email she sent me. We will do everything in our power to make sure she never gets
contacted again. However, we don't have any sort of calling list. We work with INDEPENDENT business
partners who are on a 1099 income building a business for themselves. It is impossible for me to monitor every
single call made over the next 10+ years. Please contact me if you need any furter information or co-operation.
Thank you,
~Tim Woodcox
Tim Woodcox
Independent business partner of Symmetry Direct
www.symmetrydirect.com/twoodcox
Desk: (616) 554-1148 Cell: (616) 334-7921
CLICK HERE!
CARPE DIEM - seize the day; enjoy the present, as opposed to placing all hope in the future.
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
Page 2 of 2
10/20/2005
First of all, I know damn well that I have been contacted by more than one person at 'Majestic Innovations.' An Amy, and a Kelly have called me before, and at least one other person in the past six months. Not to mention the people who called last year from 'Symmetry.'
Here's what my guess is as to what happens.
First, they pull your name from Monster.com, and other job sites. I am 100% positive of this, because they always call and ask the following, 'are you still looking for full or part time employment.' Now if this was a referral service, why in the hell would they want to know if I am looking for full or part time employment? It's not. They pull your name off of Monster, and Yahoo Hotjobs, and God only knows who else. Like I said already, no one that I know would be stupid enough to give my name in a referral service like this. And to finalize my proof, a lady who was kind enough to post her story previously said that her husband was called and a gentleman TOLD HER that him that he got his name off of Monster.
Secondly, they are constantly changing the name of the company.A lot of pyramid scheme companies do this. The place where I went for my 'group interview,' was at the SAME DAMN ADDRESS that they have listed on their BBB website! Imagine that! Now how could I not know exactly what I was talking about? And I even drove by the address here in town just to make sure that I wasn't crazy. I wasn't, and it was the same damn building.
Third. If in fact they were a referral service, which I don't think that they are, wouldn't they rely on word of mouth from their 'independent contractors?' I mean that's how every other Pyramid scheme works. You go to a group meeting with several higher ups and the people who want you to join, and so on and so forth. In this case, they get your info off of Monster, and do a'group interview.' It's no different. Majestic Innovations is a pyramid scheme, plain and simple. If people belive in what they are doing for this 'company' then more power to them. But make no mistake about it, it is what the rest of the world calls a pyramid scheme.
Fourth, since the guy is making me out to look like a liar, I have half a mind to go ahead and pull my old phone bills, SHOWING the phone calls from his company and publishing them to the public. Quite frankly, I just want the pyramid scheme people to leave me alone and not to call me again, but if it happens again, they will be notified of it, and the Grand Rapids police will too.
Amie
Grand Rapids, Michigan
U.S.A.
Rebuttal Box
Respond to this report!
Are you an owner, employee or ex-employee with either negative or positive information about the company or can you provide "insider information" on this company? Victim of this person/company?
Are you also a victim of the same company or person? Want Justice? File a Ripoff Report and don´t let them get away with it!Repair Your Reputation
Got Reports filed against you? Resolve the issues and rebuild trust through our Corporate Advocacy Program.
Updates & Rebuttals:
- I use to think it was a scam too but it's legit. I've done much research having worked for the company too. James [2/8/2006 1:46:30 AM]
- Nothing but a pawn.... Amie [2/15/2006 4:49:51 AM]
- Sounds like a lot of lack of communication to me Mike [3/16/2006 4:36:53 PM]
- UPDATE First of all.. Amie [3/16/2006 8:18:17 PM]
- Misconception Matt [3/18/2006 10:01:03 AM]
- Pyramid Scheme Amie [3/18/2006 11:16:39 AM]
- Not employment Matt [3/19/2006 1:35:23 PM]
- Multi-Level Marketing Amie [3/20/2006 5:31:45 AM]
- Thanx you for you valuable informatiom Sarah [3/20/2006 4:19:35 PM]
- Good Opportunity Brandy [3/21/2006 11:08:02 AM]
- I know what I was told Amie [3/22/2006 5:42:25 AM]
- I also have a few more observations Amie [3/22/2006 6:16:56 PM]
- It's NOT an interview Brandy [3/23/2006 10:04:29 AM]
- I was contacted exactly like Amie described Heather [3/23/2006 11:18:53 AM]
- That's great! Amie [3/23/2006 12:07:44 PM]
- Thanxs Heather! Amie [3/23/2006 12:28:00 PM]
- To Intelligent Readers Amanda [3/31/2006 7:20:50 PM]
- Truly intelligent people seek truth; not lies and deception! Amie [4/1/2006 9:47:11 AM]
- Premier Promotions Grand Rapids MI-another name change!!! Amie [4/16/2006 11:09:21 AM]
- Deceptive Employment Ads Amie [4/16/2006 1:41:59 PM]
- Correction Lisa [4/18/2006 4:48:02 PM]
- Interesting read.... Amie [4/19/2006 4:23:26 AM]
- What is Deceptive? Lisa [4/19/2006 8:04:35 AM]
- Ignorance rears its ugly head... Amie [4/19/2006 10:35:46 AM]
- A bit more honesty required.. Lisa [4/20/2006 1:09:21 AM]
- Lisa from Chicago Amie [4/20/2006 10:40:11 AM]
- I was told this in regards to the desk space rental Amie [4/20/2006 12:17:50 PM]
- Distinctive Marketing Solutions Scam Danielle [4/20/2006 12:42:38 PM]
- Presented as Employment J [4/24/2006 12:09:06 PM]
- corrections Mark [4/24/2006 3:10:45 PM]
- Deceptive 'Employment' Amie [4/25/2006 2:28:37 PM]
- Investment Required Heather [4/28/2006 7:59:58 AM]
- Response to false information Mark [4/29/2006 7:34:45 PM]
- Just one answer please... Amie [5/1/2006 1:50:40 PM]
- answer Mark [5/2/2006 9:36:56 PM]
- You are a thick-headed stubborn ignaramus Liz [5/3/2006 1:23:56 AM]
- Interesting information and a bit of hatefulness.... Amie [5/3/2006 8:13:11 AM]
- i can see your point Mark [5/3/2006 10:28:35 AM]
- More information from Symmetry Itself Amie [5/5/2006 8:57:44 AM]
- Uh huh! Mike [5/17/2006 10:11:16 AM]
- I was called too! Michele [7/27/2006 7:38:48 AM]
- Michele Amie [7/30/2006 7:01:50 AM]
- hey, it really HAS worked for me, and I am not a deceptive jerk about recruiting my underlings...' Jeff [7/31/2006 5:59:21 PM]
- Well, Gosh! I joined an MLM and Thomas [7/31/2006 10:24:52 PM]
- Jeff, glad it's worked for you but.... Amie [8/5/2006 7:48:46 PM]
- I also want to point out a few very obvious things. Amie [8/5/2006 7:57:20 PM]
- Other possible names may be InnCareers and Innovation-USA-Careers Stuart [8/15/2006 7:22:01 AM]
- An Inside View James [8/22/2006 12:42:47 PM]
- Contacted Today Molly [10/18/2006 2:43:57 PM]
- You're welcome Molly Amie [10/24/2006 4:25:32 PM]
- Just like other businesses Kristen [11/1/2006 1:42:38 AM]
- Poor Business Rachel [11/28/2006 3:43:59 PM]
- Wow Lisa [11/30/2006 5:46:00 PM]
- Simply amazing Jason [12/4/2006 11:59:33 AM]
- to tell you the truth Mark [12/4/2006 4:48:19 PM]
- Symmetry's 'Hiring' Strategy Alex [12/6/2006 6:36:02 PM]
- very close Mark [12/7/2006 10:35:06 PM]
- Now we're getting somewhere Alex [12/9/2006 2:23:13 PM]
- Mark, Mark, Mark Amie [12/10/2006 6:18:57 AM]
- alrighty Mark [12/12/2006 9:54:39 PM]
- they tried to get me too! Toya [12/20/2006 9:47:33 PM]
- The REAL Numbers, Wisconsin, and other Info Amie [1/15/2007 6:09:45 AM]
- uninformed opinion Theresa [1/29/2007 3:33:08 PM]
- Thanks Theresa.... Amie [1/30/2007 5:08:26 AM]
- In regards to Symmetry and the people behind them Michael [2/19/2007 3:22:48 AM]
- First Class Organization Casey [4/22/2007 10:04:11 PM]
- I have been contacted again! Amie [4/29/2007 4:05:09 AM]
- I'm a little confused Jim [5/12/2007 9:22:49 PM]
I use to think it was a scam too but it's legit. I've done much research having worked for the company too.
I wanted to address the issue about the different company names first. Yes, it's true that a lot of pyramid schemes have different company names, but the reason why the Symmetry Corporation has several names is because the company is consisted of INDEPENDENT distributors, working on a 1099 income (which is basically comission). This means that anyone can sign up with Symmetry and become an Independent seller of its products. Symmetry teaches them how to collaborate and create an office and training center for themselves and prospective distributors of Symmetry products.
Symmetry does not provide money for these distributors to open or operate the offices nor can they use the Symmetry name as the name of their office. This is because: 1) Since these are independent distributors, it is hard for Symmetry to know how many offices are being opened everyday, thus Symmetry can't keep track of the offices unless they're reported back to Symmetry that a new office has been opned. So Symmetry doesn't want the offices to use the Symmetry name just in case an office is running on a bad code of ethics, which Symmetry does not condone. So when people open different offices selling Symmetry products, they have to come up with their own name. 2) An office is the distributor's own business. All Symmetry is doing is providing the distributor with the products and the distributor is running his/her own business.
Symmetry does as much as it can to teach these distributors how to do business properly and ethically. Symmetry is a member of the Better Business Bureau and the Direct Selling Association. It's code of ethics can be found on its website www.symmetrydirect.com. The offices are also training centers. At my old office, we had Power Hour on Tuesdays and Thursdays to train new business partners. These office trainings were free and they taught you how to sell your products both ethically and efficiently.
They were really nice people and my supervisor did as much as she can to help me, but I just didn't have time to do this business cuz I'm a first year college student and school takes up a lot of my time. However, I do think that this is a good opportunity for people who are tired of what they're doing right now and want to find something that can possibly be better for them. I think this business is good for people who have time to spend on it. I mean you have to work really hard in the beginning to build your network of clients, but then in the end, it's worth it because you get residual income. This means that if you get a client to buy $50 worth of products per month and you get $5 from it, then you'd get that $5 every month as long as you keep that client, which is easy if you know how to treat your customers right.
But the real way to make money in this business is not to get as many customers as you can, instead it is more beneficial to get as many business partners as you can who will help you get more clients. It's easier to sell 10 products if you have 10 people who sell 1 product each than if you had to sell 10 products yourself. Like I said, I do believe this is a good way for some people to make money, possibly even $100,000, that is if you build a steady network of clients and business partners for about 5 years. For some people, they can make $100,000 in 2 years, for others it takes almost 10 years. It jsut depends. There are no garauntees and these people let you know that. It's just an opportunity and you choose not to take it. There are a lot of good incentives in this company, you just know what you're doing in this business. A lot of people fail and quit and then call it a scam. I'm not working for Symmetry now b/c I'm too busy but I plan on getting back into the business in a couple of years.
If this helped anyone, then I'm glad. If there are still any other questions, please feel free to write a rebuttal to this post. Thanks!
Nothing but a pawn....
I find it interesting for someone who didn't have much time to invest in a 'business' that you would defend it so blatantly. Why is that? Have you made a small fortune doing this pyramid scheme..... excuse me, marketing plan, or are you a pawn for the company who has fallen into the trap of believing what it tells you?
A pyramid scheme does nothing but make it's higher ups money. Do you truly believe that people are going to buy $50.00 vitamins from you when they can order them on eBay for $5.00? And do you truly believe that by paying $2500 for a conference that you are going to learn something from it? (Probably nothing more than to hear speeches of the higher ups telling you that 'you can do it!' Of course you can. If you were one of them.
From Symmetry's own website, code of ethics, and I quote: 'No member company of the Association shall engage in any deceptive, unlawful or unethical consumer or recruiting practice. Member companies shall ensure that no statements, promises or testimonials are made which are likely to mislead consumers or prospective salespeople.' OH REALLY?! Then why in the HELL does the marketing scammers, I mean workers, call and ask if you are 'searching for full or part time employment?' That seems deceptive to me... and overtly so. That's breaking rule number one of the 'code of ethics.' (Which are crap.)
And then we have this little bit: 'Sellers shall truthfully identify themselves, their company, their products and the purposes of their solicitation to the prospective customer. Contact with the consumer shall be made in a reasonable manner and during reasonable hours to avoid intrusiveness. A demonstration or sales presentation shall discontinue upon the request of the consumer.' Truthfully identify themselves huh? That's interesting. Do they also tell people and are they required to tell people that when they purchase the vitamins that they are joining a pyramid scheme, excuse me again... there's that word coming back, marketing plan similar to Quixtar, Team of Destiny, and Amway?
And what do you know? They even have a section on PYRAMID SCHEMES: 'For the purpose of this Code, pyramid or endless chain schemes shall be considered consumer transactions actionable under this Code. The Code Administrator shall determine whether such pyramid or endless chain schemes constitute a violation of this Code in accordance with applicable federal, state and/or local law or regulation.'
Let's see what the dictionary says about a pyramid scheme shall we?
pyramid scheme
n.
A fraudulent money-making scheme in which people are recruited to make payments to others above them in a hierarchy while expecting to receive payments from people recruited below them. Eventually the number of new recruits fails to sustain the payment structure, and the scheme collapses with most people losing the money they paid in.
Does this sound familiar? It sure does to me!
And they leave it up to the Administrator to decide what is a pyramid scheme and what isn't? Awfully suspicious!
If I could, I would tell you, Tim Woodcox, and others like him to give it, get real jobs, and that they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for knowingly and willingly participating in pyramid schemes and ripping real people off who truly need jobs and income.
Go ahead and read the Code of Ethics yourself. I also encourage you to do more research on pyramid schemes. You might just change your mind. Symmetry, Majestic Innovations, and whatever else they are calling themselves these days are nothing but pyramid schemes, and you my friend are nothing more than a pawn.
Sounds like a lot of lack of communication to me
Amy what happened to you to make ya so mad? Did you lose money over this? Did someone physically hurt you? Sounds like you just got called a few to many times.
I used to have the same attitude as you did before I got my questions anwered. I will say this though, I have never been a part of any business like that or a pyramid deal thing or what ever you called them. I don't even know if I know what that really means anymore. All I know is that my ex-girl friend used to work with Symmetry for a while before we broke up. I remember when she first started how pissed I was. I thought it was a scam. Even though I knew there were legit companies like that...my Grand Rapids blood came out and I said 'scam'. That was before I even knew what they did. I sounded a lot like Amy. All though that type a business is not for me...I have to say most of the people in the office were my ex was introduced were pretty cool. I met Tim Woodcox personally three years ago.
Recently my roommate was called by Majestic innovations. From the little he could explain to me after they called him, it sounded a lot like what my ex had done so we searched Majestic Innovaitons on the bbb.com and google to see what it was. Just like Amy says, its is in the same building with a different name were my ex went three years ago. When I say Tim Woodcox's name I recognised it. His name and phone number was on the bbb website so I thought I would call him to see if he knew what was up. I was really confused because I met him when my ex worked with Symmetry in that same building. Tim was cool, he let me ask him any question I had. He told me how that old office was ran by someone else who doesn't live in Michigan anymore and that when there lease was up he opened his own so that there would still be an office in this area. He stayed in the same building but moved to a smaller practical suite. As for the name change I think he said he named it Majestic Innovations because the old name was the name that some one else gave to their office. Since everyone who is part of Symmetry is indepent he had to name it something and Tim's place was taken! lol Really he said it was like people back in the day used to work out of their homes they didn't call their house the name of the parent company.
To me it reminds me of when my aunt did Mary Kay. Now that not something I would not do either because I am a guy, but I know some people say that is a pyramid thing too! I thought it was just ladies sharing make-up. But she did that out of her home and I think they had meetings at the mall once a month or something.??. If I remember right Tim said it's kinda similar but instead of working out of a home or resturaunt, sometimes people will open a local training center where more people can work out of. After talking with him on the phone, and seeing how much they helped my ex back when I was with her, I thought they were all really cool nice people. Of coarse just like ANYTHING else there are going to be some wierdos involed who try to cut corners but where isn't that? My job has a lot of idiots that screw up everyday and mis-inform people.
I guess I am not on either side of the line, I just felt bad when I saw Amy's Rip off report deal and she was slamming a guy that I thought was cool when I met him three years ago and even when I called him recently. It makes me wonder if Amy even has met or talked to Tim Woodcox or if she is just venting all of her anger/frustration at him because he was the only one willing to respond trying to give some sort of explination to what ever upset her. It doesn't sound like he was even the one who ever called her? Either way I guess it doen't matter. I guess if I was someone who had questions about what it is that they do at Majestic Innovations / Symmetry or what ever any of their other offices may be named...just do what I did, pick up the phone and ask him directly, his number is public. He doesn't seem to be hiding.
Also...Tim found out who referred my rommate to someone in the office. It was his girlfriends friend form work. We confirmed it.lol I thought it was funny. My roommate went in and said it was cool, just not for him right now.
UPDATE First of all..
First of all, my name is 'Amie.'
Secondly, Majestic Innovations did call too much. And again, no one that I know would be stupid enough to sit through a meeting, let alone stay with the company long enough to give them my phone number. It's not going to happen. And not more than 10 times.... I don't buy that. (in sput
Third, they are a pyramid scheme.
Fourth, I didn't and would never lose a dime to a scheme setup like this. Anything that you have to invest money into, is not a 'job.' It's called investing in a higher up, aka pyramid scheme, mulit level marketing, whatever you want to call it, take your pick.
I find it interesting that there have been two rebuttals to my complaint, yet no one can even defend or comment what I am saying other than saying how great Symmetry Direct and Majestic Innovations are. This company is nothin more than a pyramid scheme, and is harming people with their 'are you looking for full or part time employment,?' garbage.
Misconception
Hey, my name is Matt and I work with a Network Marketing company. I was just curious what exactly your definition of a 'pyramid scheme' is. I hear this now and then from people and what I generally hear from them is, 'it's one of those things where the people at the top make all the money, and all the people at the bottom are doing all the work.' If you think about that, you can compare that statement to any other business in the world.
Here is an example. In corporate America there is generally a CEO followed by a President, then a COUPLE of Vice Presidents, then MORE Upper Management than VP's, the MORE Middle Management than Upper Management, then MORE Lower Management than Upper Management, and finally MORE employees than Lower Management. If you think about it, all the money is at the top with the CEO, President, etc. It would be all screwed up if the employees made more than the CEO.
On another note, when you start with any Multi-level marketing business, you start at the top and build a business underneath you. The awesome part is that the person that enrolled you, and the people above them, want you to succeed because the more money you make, the more money they make. So they are going to help you, teach you, and train you so that you can build a successful business. When is the last time your boss taught you and trained you everything that they know. If they did that , you would be a threat to their position.
Bottom line, what you are referring to as a 'pyramid scheme' is illegal. Where it all started was some guy named Panzi (sp) started a money scheme where you give him X amount of money, and then he will show you how to get 10 people to give you X amount of money. It is illegal because there is no good or service exchanged. It is just a money scheme. Don't get me wrong, there are some bad companys in the Multi-level Marketing industry just like any other industry, but there are also many good ones. There are thousands of companys out there. You should learn all about any company with an open mind before you make your decision to bash them. I am not trying to step on any toes, I just wanted to try to clear a few things up.
Pyramid Scheme
This particular company, like Quixtar, Amway, and others, requires you to invest money (a large sum) initially, and then build your 'client base underneat you.' 90% of the former and/or current employers of Majestic Innovations that have contacted me, have in fact informed me, that they have lost thousands of dollars while trying to sell their 'nutritional products.' They are encouraged, as in any pyramid scheme, to sell their products and get return customers, and to GET PEOPLE TO SELL THE PRODUCT.... They are told to 'believe in the system' and it will 'work for them.' They are encouraged to spend thousands of dollars for conferences, books, training materials, all while having to work full time hours, with no income.
Now I don't know about you, but this describes to me, a pyramid scheme. You are not told where you get your 'referrals' from, you aren't told where your 'start up money' goes to, and exactly what it is used for. You are giving money to someone, trying to get people under you to give you money too, and so on and so forth. It is a pyramid scheme.
My biggest issue with this company is the lies, decepit, and harm that it is causing to innocent people. Not to mention the fact that Tim Woodcox, not knowing that I don't stop until I have all my ducks in a row, thought he would be cute and lie to the State Attorney General's office. As of right now he, Symmetry Direct, Michigan Premiere, and who knows what other names they use, are under investigation.
Tim Woodcox will not tell where his 'referrals' come from. I have it on good authority that they are coming from Monster, Careerbuilder, and other search sites. Including call lists generated by those not on the 'Do Not Call' list. Tim Woodcox claims that an 'Amy' has ever worked in his office. Why did myself and a few others meet with an Amy, and why did one of my sources work with her for several MONTHS, if she doesn't in fact work for this company? In fact, on Symmetry's on website, there is a link for an Amy, at the GRAND RAPIDS OFFICE! Why does this company keep changing its name? I have been called by several of them, all at the same place (the phone numbers all trace back to the same address) and many of them have used different names when calling to see if I 'were interested in full or part time employment?'
Employment is someone paying you to do a job for them. It is not 'investing' money and 'believing in the system.'
Not employment
In multi-level marketing, you work with a company as an independent distributor, you dont work for them. I dont know much about the company you are complaining about or the people that work with them, but what I do know is that this industry is the very best way for ANY average individual, with a good work ethic, to get ahead financially.
If you look at traditional business, it can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get started. In a lot of multi-level marketing companies it might only cost a couple hundred dollars to be in business for yourself; be your own boss. Amie, you wrote something about conferences that costed money to attend, and I was just wondering if they were mandatory to go. It sounds to me like some kind of a training seminar on how to effectively run your business. It seems like it would be something that you could choose whether or not to go to. Did you actually get involved with this company that you are writing about?
The reason I ask is because I get the Network Marketing Business Journal, and a couple of months ago, Symmetry was named company of the month throughout the whole world, so it sounds ligitiment to me. Like I stated before, I am not trying to argue or get on anyone's nerves, but it just upsets me when Multi-level marketing businesses get bashed by people. This business definitely works. Amie, you live in or near Grand Rapids, MI. One of the biggest businesses in Grand Rapids is Amway.
That is Multi-level marketing. Some people in Amway make like 1 million dollars in 12 hours, or some rediculous number like that. Just average people plugging into an above average system getting ahead. If you have any questions about the industry or anything of the sort, just ask and I will answer to the best of my knowledge. Have a great day.
Multi-Level Marketing
Amway. AKA, Quixtar, Team of Destiny, The Team.... and so on and so forth. (aka pyramid teams, schemes, multi-level marketing... whatever.)
Matt, I have no questions about pyramid schemes... excuse me 'multi-level marketing.'
I understand the concept. I also understand that hundreds of thousands of people have been ripped off, lied to, cheated out of hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, all because of 'multi-level marketing schemes,' aka pyramid schemes.
Amway, like Majestic Innovations, Symmetry Direct and others alike require that you pay a large lump sum to even be an 'independent distributor.'
They then ask you spend hundreds to thousands more on 'inspirational books,' conferences, tapes, and so on and so forth.
You can defend this all you want. If it has worked for you, that's great. However, I can point you in the directions of thousands more that it HASN'T worked for, and have been hurt and harmed by these marketing schemes. My best friend and her husband are having their home foreclosed on right now because of 'Team of Destiny.'
And your right. It's not employment. And I again, direct anyone back to Symmetry's own code of ethics, and Majestic Innovations is breaking this by referring to this as 'full or part time employment.'
Thanx you for you valuable informatiom
I just wanted to thank everyone who has commented on here ands for the site info. I called and add in the paper today and was oddered an interivew ( referred to as a 'company overview session') tomorrow evening.
I moved to the USA last year and this is my first interview since getting work permission. We are newly wed and short on money so I am very please that i found this info and were able to cancel instead of wasting my time and money on travel.
I have called the person Iwas dealing with a Mr Brent Chalko (i love the USA having caller ID) and left a message, he called back. When he asked why i cancelled I informed him i had researched and decided it was not for me. He mentioned this site and AMie and started to try and rebute the information but I cut him short and told him that he was wasting his time.
So again Thank you so much.
Submitted: 3/21/2006 11:08:02 AM
Modified: 3/21/2006 11:08:02 AM
Brandy
East Lansing, MichiganU.S.A.
Good Opportunity
Amelia Thompson is wrong! I was in that office when Tim Woodcox got your complaint Amie. My cousin had brought me into the office to checkout the products the company had. Everything Amie is saying is exaggerated and not accurate!
People who read this who have been contacted by Majestic Innovations should go in to get their OWN opinion of the company. I find this true of any company. My cousin is a VERY honest ethical girl who does fairly well working with Symmetry and their great products! She doesn't work out of the local training centers that much because she just likes sharing the products for part-time income. Is Amie saying that she is BAD too? Come on, get a clue!
Amelia's opinion is a joke. It is obviously bias and an uneducated guess of what the company really does. Tim Woodcox has no idea who she is! I watched him ask everyone in his office if they had called her. A guy named Louis told him he had called Amie to see if she was keeping her work options open. NOT EMPLOYMENT options.
Everyone in that office goes out of their way to tell people that it is NOT a job! I have a copy of the outline that they use on the phone. It says exactly what the BBB.com website states. I sat there in that office for a whole day and watched what they do. The crap Amie is saying is flat out wrong! How can you possibly comment on a company that you have never worked with? Is it possible that some person some day might be new and say the wrong thing? Yes. I hope that it is still only human to make mistakes! I saw Tim Woodcox and other people in that office helping new people to build a successful business just like they did with my cousin. Correcting people when they are wrong, helping to explain and answer questions.
I take personal offense to your comments AMIE THOMPSON. When you say some of those inaccurate comments, you are putting down a great company that has helped my family in so many ways! The products have helped my grand parents to my own children!
That's not to say that it is not in a controversial industry. I don't care what Amway and Mary Kay did. Some people love it some hate it. We know what Amelia Thompson thinks! Did you know that Amway, Quixtar, TEAM, and Brit World Wide ARE the same company with in a company under ALTICORE. Alticore, which employees a ton of Grand Rapids people! As well as offer a business opportunity to those who choose to get involved! If you don't like the idea then DON'T DO IT!
Symmetry is in no way part of that company. Majestic Innovations is just a local office that one person in Symmetry opened! Who cares if it is in the same building as an old office? It can still be different people working there! You have no idea who has worked with who! Again who cares! You weren't lied too. You just MAYBE talked to one person who didn't know how to answer your questions. From the looks of it you where probably going crazy on the phone!! Or are just one of those people who is really nice on the phone and in person so you can go home, hide behind a computer and post web blogs slamming people and dragging their name through the mud? Boy, I'm sure glad you don't know the first and last name of anyone in my family!
Think about what you are saying. Why don't just go to the source and try and SOLVE the situation instead of bad mouthing individuals whom you have never met, publicly? Every person I ever saw in Tim Woodcox's office was setting appointment with people who answer different types of advertisements or people who got referred by someone who came into the office. I can see why Amie says none of her friends or family would be stupid enough to ever refer her?. she sounds crazy!! Even if someone saw the name on a referral program or one of those resume deals?who cares? Ask questions on the phone and either go in or don't go in to see if it's a good fit for you!
I hope anyone who reads this will realize the obvious...Amelia Thompson is nuts! Majestic Innovations or any other office that works with Symmetry may not be for everyone...but it is GREAT COMPANY for people who want a chance to live healthier, longer and earn some EXTRA income while doing it!
Sorry for being so angry, but people like Amelia Thompson upset me. They are the same people who drive waitresses crazy! Just like those parents that always gossip at our kid's school functions! ha ha haha.
I know what I was told
Brandy,
I know beyond a shadow of a doubt what I was told. I was asked SPECIFICALLY, if 'I were looking for full or part time EMPLOYMENT.' And I wasn't just asked this once. I was asked at least five times by people from Symmetry, Majestic Innovations, and by the company. Never at any time was I asked if 'I was keeping my options open.' In fact, he left a message stating this, and I had to call Louis back! He was not happy and tried to argue with me a few times when I explained that I wasn't interested, to take me off the list, and that I had already been to a meeting.
I agree with you 100%. I too encourage everyone to go to a 'group interview.' (Not employment though, right Brandy?) See what they are offering you. See how much money they want you to 'invest' and to 'believe in the system.' (Brandy even has now admitted to following a script! Keep that in mind folks when Majestic Innovations calls you regarding full or part time employment.)
I am also going to ask you to not make assumptions about me. You don't know me, you only know what you have been told by your boss, and other 'co-workers.' I wouldn't be making such a big deal about this if I hadn't felt that I have been wronged by this 'company.' I feel it is important to share with other people that I feel that this is a scam, and that I don't personally think it's such a hot deal. I think it is a multi level marketing, or pyramid scheme, and I stand by that statement. I also don't like being lied about or too, and I feel that Tim Woodcox has done that. If in fact my name was 'referred,' I feel that he could have released that information to me, so that I could take care to see that that never happens in the future. A very select number of people have my phone number, (CELL PHONE, that is...) and that is why I am so incredulous to believe that someone would refer me to this company without my permission or knowledge. I just don't believe that.
Brandy, if this is such a great opportunity, why have I gotten contacted by so many former employees of this company who have lost so much money from it? Even those who invested a lot of time and effort? I can't believe that this is that great of an opportunity when too many other people say otherwise. I also have been to so many Amway, Mary Kay, and other Marketing Plan meetings, that my interest was peaked at Majestic Innovations. TO me, it was the same type of meeting. Same style... everything. Perhaps they should take a different approach upon luring people in to be 'independent distributors.'
I am not crazy, psycho, or whatever names you want to call me. I am pleased to hear that this program has worked for someone, because I can list 10 people that it has not.
I also have a few more observations
1.) Tim Woodcox admits in his letters, to myself, the BBB, and the Michigan State Attorney General that in fact, Majestic Innovations IS a branch off of Symmetry Direct. (So is Team of Destiny off of Quixtar, and Alticor....Many 'multi-level marketing' companies do this.)
2.) I have personally gone out of my way to not attack anyone, except Tim Woodcox's treatment of myself, and (what I feel) his blatant misrepresentation of his company to the State of Michigan and to the local BBB. I feel personally that he has lied, and has misrepresented his company, and therefore am speaking out against this. I value honesty, and don't like being lied to or about. I have contacted Tim Woodcox directly, and it got me absolutely no where.
3.) Majestic Innovations has also been called Michigan Premiere, Symmetry Direct, Seeds of Success, Michigan Premiere Traning Center, and so on and so forth. All of these companies are/were located at the same address as Majestic Innovations. I also want to reiterate the fact that Quixtar also does this, and keeps changing its 'multi-level marketing' names, and presenting a package that is esentially the same package of Amway from the 70's, just a new name and different format. This is a 'company' that doesn't really know what it's name is! (While Alticor may employ many people, many more people have lost thousands of dollars investing in their 'multi-level marketing'.)
4.) Upon being greeted for my 'group interview' in July of 2004, I was ushered into another part of the 'office' where a mini-theatre was set up. There were supplemental products on a huge display table, and posters all over the place. The group that was there, about 25-30 people, were given a speech (by a very well spoken)by a motivational speaker, who spoke about 'believing in the system' at least a half a dozen times. At that point, I wasn't quite sure what the heck was going on. From there, we were shown a motivational video, about... you guessed it. Selling the supplmental products. After the video, it was more talk about 'the system,' and then came the kicker, about having to purchase the supplements yourself, and then sell them to other people, and to recruit people under you to sell them. At that point, I got up and walked out, because I realized what I was in there for, and that it wasn't for me. It was a 'multi-level marketing' 'plan' very similiar to others I had been shown countless times before.
5.) Don't believe me. I am a complete stranger. Go to a 'group interview' yourself. See what this is all about, and then post your own experience. I highly encourage it. Perhaps you will make hundreds of thousands of dollars. Or, perhaps like many others, you will lose a few thousand, and then wake up one day and realize that it is definitely not for you, and you have wasted a lot of time, money, and effort for nothing.
Submitted: 3/23/2006 10:04:29 AM
Modified: 3/23/2006 10:04:29 AMBrandy
East Lansing, MichiganU.S.A.
It's NOT an interview
I called Tim Woodcox directly from the phone number that is on the BBB website. I told him I was someone else and I asked him if I could come in for an interview. He said that they 'don't do' interviews. He said the only thing I could do was set up an appointment to come and see a company overview to get an idea of what the company does.
When I asked him how I would be paid he said it was a 1099 income & based on certain types of commissions and bonuses. He said that a lot of people do it part-time, spare-time to earn extra cash while others put more time into it to earn a lot more. He also told me it was sales and marketing with health wellness/ nutrtional products. He told me that if I came in that it would take about an hour and that a few other people would be there for the overview of the company when I first got there. NONE OF THAT WAS MISLEADING TO ME! He never said 'interview', 'job', or 'employment'.
I went on to ask a few other questions and he nicely answered all of them up front. I also asked him if he knew who Amie Thompson was. He said he knew of her but not exaclty who she was. I had just read Amie's entry where she says she contacted him directly so I asked him again! He said he has never talked to her in person or on the phone. He even asked me if I was her! I told him about what I had read that she wrote. He said he had gotten one eamil from her once but that he never got to talk to her directly. When I asked him about her he didn't really say much. He said if people want to beleive what she wants to write they can. Or they can find out for themselves.
Personaly I encourage someone reading entries on this website to go and get their answer for themselves. I would call Mr. Woodcox yourself. He is a good person. He has a great sense of humor!
Submitted: 3/23/2006 11:18:53 AM
Modified: 3/23/2006 11:18:53 AMHeather
Grand Rapids, MichiganU.S.A.
I was contacted exactly like Amie described
Yesterday I was contacted by Laura from Majestic Innovations. She said, 'We heard you were looking for part-time work?' I was really excited because I have, indeed, been trying to find a part-time job while I finish up college.
I asked her how she got my number, thinking a friend referred me, and she said she didn't know where they obtained my name and phone number.
She said the company dealt with 'health' products, giving the impression it was a healt/fitness organization. She asked if I was going to college and what my major was, which is Art, graphic design emphasis. She asked if I enjoyed interacting with many kinds of people. She said my job would include office work, answering phones, helping customers, and perhaps some design work. I was curious as to why she set-up an interview (she told me to 'dress nice') and was about to end the conversation before asking for a resume. I interrupted her and inquired if I should bring it, and she said, 'Oh, yeah, bring that with you.'
Upon querying my friends as to whether any of them had given Majestic Innovations my phone number, I discovered no one had. Thus, I did an internet search to get more information about them and happened upon this Rip-Off Report.
I also checked the Better Business Bureau's website, which only confirmed that a complaint had been filed, but stated that the business was otherwise in 'satisfactory standing.'
But the company's own website is what finally caused me to call Laura back to ask a few questions. Anyone curious as to what kind of business they are considering interviewing for should go to this page on their own website: http://www.symmetrydirect.com/twoodcox/
Laura did not answer, so I left a message stating I had some questions and asking her to call. Among my questions are:
1. Does the position involve sales? (Different from 'assisting customers,' as it was put.)
2. Does the position involve gaining new customers?
3. Is the position salary, hourly or commission?
4. I would like to know who referred me to them.
5. Will the position require an investment?
Needless to say, I doubt I will be making the interview appointment I made.
I'd like to thank Amie, who is obviously very upset over being manipulated. I'm mad too; I was excited to have a job opportunity, and now I feel like Laura's questions about my major, suggestion that I may do some design work for them, and directive to 'dress nice' were completely insincere, and I feel foolish for having been excited.
A note to those supplying definitions of 'pyramid schemes,' etc.: A company can be technically legal and still be a Rip Off. See the 'cash your paycheck in advance' businesses, and the 'we give loans to anyone' businesses. Apparently, taking advantage of low-income and single-parent families in desperate situations is, technically, legal.
That's great!
That is wonderful that Majestic Innovations has turned its employment offers, into a more reasonable explanation of what they do to prospective 'independent distributors.' I can only hope that they work to improve on that in the future so that people who are in need of true employment aren't misled or misguided on what the company is/does. However, when they have called me, I have been offered 'full or part time employment' comments, so I hope that they aren't still doing this.
I have contacted Tim Woodcox directly. Through email. I received a form letter back from him, and realizing that it wasn't the response that I was needing, I then began filing complaints realizing that I probably wouldn't get very far through him without him defending his company and me not getting the answers that I wanted regarding the 'referrals,' and the fact that I had previously been there, and everything else. Tim has my phone number, and email address, and I would be more than happy to discuss anything with him. I tried to contact him before, and didn't like the response that I received. I want answers, not a form letter and polite brush off.
Thanxs Heather!
Heather, Thanks for sharing your story! I am sorry and disappointed to hear that Majestic Innovations is still up to its old tricks, and have been adding a few more. How pathetic, and disturbing. I encourage you to also file a complaint with the BBB about their deceptive practices in recruiting. It certainly wouldn't hurt!
I am beginning to wonder, if Brandy got the nice, polite speech from Tim because he thought she was me doing some investigative work? It would be interesting to look into that further.
Let us know what happens when they respond to your questions, and thanks again for posting your story. Don't waste your time, going to the interview! Call Adecco or some other employment staffing for part time work. You'll do better, and won't lose out on a ton of money.
To Intelligent Readers
So I actually work with Symmetry Direct, and I just wanted to point out a few important aspects of things i noticed on this thread. The first is that the major purpose of this thread is to accuse a legitmate, ethical business of scamming people simply because it is not done in the exact format as another business. These types of criticisms typically come from a lack of understanding about the concept or from unanswered questions. I recommend to Amie and to anyone who reads this who would like to know more about the industry and make an INFORMED decision to read The Business School for People who Like Helping People by Robert Kiyosoki, although I am sure that Amie won't actually do it. While I don't mean to attack her specifically, it seems that no matter what she is told, she will believe what she wants.
Second, I want to point out that the discerning reader will find answer to many of the questions posed on this report embedded within the responses. For example one primary contention of Amie's argument is that the company changes it's name all the time. The response to that question was given and ignored (We don't change our name, but we are not allowed to use Symmetry as an office name because Symmetry does not run the offices - individual business partners do).
Finally, my response to this thread is that it is essentially unwarranted and insulting. The UNited States was built on small business and that's what this is: a network of small businesses. If it wasn't for you, then fine. If you were called more than once, then I'm sorry because I understand that can be annoying. However, being called more than once does not mean that we're dishonest, unethical, scamming people. It's just honest people trying to build their business by HELPING others achieve the success they desire, or benefit their health in order to combat the rising costs of medical care and incidences of disease. If we didn't truly believe we were helping people, we wouldn't do it. As such, I take personal offense to the attack on Tim Woodcox, who is a very good business partner and good person. Amie, you did not contact him or talk with him directly. You emailed him and there's a difference so when he says he doesn't know you, but vaguely knows that you exist, that's true. When he says he didn't call you and has no control over who other people call, that's true. Perhaps you should consider the often-repeated phrase 'Your mind is like a parachute. It works best when its open,' and consider that it takes all kinds of people to make the world, and just because you don't like one of them doesn't mean you need to badmouth them all over the internet. This is, in fact the reason I am posting a rebuttal at all. I am a little ashamed to even dignify this uninformed blather with a response, but he and his office do not deserve this kind of attack. Let bygones be bygones.
Truly intelligent people seek truth; not lies and deception!
Unfortunately, this company is showing it's true colors.
As you can see, regardless of what myself, and other people say,that we can provide proof of, people are going to defend an unethical and un-truthful 'business.' This is also, unfortunately, another sad and sorry side effect of pyramid schemes.
While Amanda took the time to personally attack me, she did not however, take the time to respond to Heather's story of what happened to her. She was offered a part time job at this place. Was told that she could help with desiging, and was told to dress nice for her 'interview.' And was even encouraged to bring her interview, when apparently, you don't even have to have a high school diploma to do this type of 'work'. This is unethical, and in any other part of the world where I come from, it's called.... LYING. Everytime they call someone asking if they are looking for full or part time employment, it is LYING.
I also want to respond to a few of Amanda's comments and point out the obvious:
They can't even use Symmetry's own name when they are calling people. What does that tell you right there? Amway does this with their 'multi-level marketing.' Quixtar, Team of Destiny, and others also use this. It is a way for them to continue what they are doing, and being sneaky and deceptive about it!
This particular office has gone by at least four different names in the past five years. Don't believe me? Contact the State Attorney General's office.
While it's true that I have not 'talked' with Tim Woodcox, he is very much aware of who I am and why I am upset.(Aside from email, I have filed NUMEROUS complaints with local and state wide government affiliations.) Apparently, while Amanda obviously has internet access, she hasn't quite reached up with the 20th century in understanding that email is one of the best forms of contact with people. I emailed Tim Woodcox with my complaints. And I got a response. A form letter. Now, that is just not good business. If someone is that upset, you do everything in your power to help them and calm them down. I am also aware that members of Majestic Innovations believes in censorship because my blog has been censored SPECIFICALLY because of 'complaints' of my Majestic Innovations writings.
Vitamins and health products are a dime a dozen. Anyone anywhere can package something all natural and call it the next best thing. Majestic Innovations is no different. In fact, the key ingredient in their products is aloe. Aloe, as any doctor or nurse will tell you is nothing more than a laxative when used internally.
I am very sorry for those who are defending this 'company.' I also hope that you feel good about yourself preying on people who truly need a job, and need a source of income. Shame on you!
If you have been contacted by this company, rest assured, that you will probably NOT make money. You have to 'rent' desk space a month, you have to pay for your cell phone, handle overhead costs (ie flyers, business cards, etc) all by yourself. Even any awards that this company gives out (Seeds of Success) you HAVE to pay for! Imagine just to get started in this thing is going to cost you several hundred dollars. Most people, especially in todays society, don't have that kind of cash just laying around somewhere. How do I know all of this? Because this is what former 'employees' have told me!! They fell for it, and you can too.
But again, don't believe me. Go to a meeting yourself. (NOT an interview as they will have you believe.) See what this 'business' is all about.....
Premier Promotions Grand Rapids MI-another name change!!!
Well well well.
It looks like this 'company' has undergone yet ANOTHER name change. How many does this make now?
According to an 'EMPLOYMENT' ad on mlive.com, the company AKA Majestic Innovations is now calling itself 'Premier Promotions.'
Oh but wait! They don't continually change their name do they?
Interestingly enough, Premier Pormotions has the exact same address as Majestic Innovations! What a coincidence. And they also are involved in 'health and fitness' products. Another coincidence! My goodness. More fraud is being committed day after day for this pyramid scheme.
If you see an add like this in the paper, rest assured it is from Symmetry Direct:
'Job Description
Description: OFFICE. PEOPLE PERSON. Expanding company in health and fitness industry looking for 3 motivated people. Part/Full time. (1099). 616-xxx-1057. '
The above was posted in the Grand Rapids Press April 16th, 2006. The 'company' name was Premier Promotions. Upon doing a google on this new name, I got back the same address and information for Majestic Innovations.
Deceptive Employment Ads
This one traces right back to Tim Woodcox's number that he listed in his emails and on the BBB site: This was posted in the Grand Rapids press!
Job Title: Advertising FITNESS
Source: The Grand Rapids Press Employment Ads
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Date: 04-09-2006
Job Description
Description: Advertising FITNESS Hard working, ambitious individuals who are seeking people-oriented career. Enjoy $$$, travel and fun! Full/part time. No experience necessary. 616-554-1148 (1099)
Correction
Premier Promotions is not a name change. It was an GR Press account name set up by Mr. Woodcox five years or so ago for something else. Incase you have never ran an ad for anything in the GR Press it cost MONEY. It costs a lot less if you sign a contract and set up a company/account name. The people at the GR Press tell ya to just pick something to have a name so they can get you to sign a contract. If you end up starting a new business down the road OR change your name or anything they don't let you change your account name to run ads unless you are willing to pay the NEW prices. So if you started an account YEARS ago they will lock you in at that price if you keep that same account. Why would anyone change the name on their account if they were going to have to pay WAY more to run a simple ad? I used to do some business with Tim and he let me use his account to run my ads for my separate business as a favor so I wouldn't have to sign a contract and pay more. He saved me a lot of money. You are so incredible! Amy, find something better to do. Give the poor guy a break!
He lets other INDEPENTENT reps and his friends use his account to save money on their own PERSONAL and business ads!!! You are clueless. Get a job. Still looking in the classified ads for a job? Obviously you are still looking for a career while other people are going out and building one! I can't believe how many times I have read people on this website who explain your misconceptions so clearly yet you totally take them all WAY out of context.
The different office names that are out there ARE NOT COMPANY NAME CHANGES!!!! It is DIFFERENT reps opening their own locations! Are you saying that if you opened your own retail store you wouldn't give it your own name? Isn't it your money and time invested into opening it? Why would you use someone else's name? New name, fresh start. I know that the company these offices are working with IS a good company! If you ask them on the phone they will tell you what company they are with! If you go in to the office the first thing they tell you about is what company they are with! They are proud of it!!!!!! And the products are the best in the industry! I will say it again. YOU ARE CLUELESS about half the stuff you comment on! If you are so bored why don't you go write about the drug industry or politics? That should really keep you busy. Go complain about gas prices or college tuition cost or something!! I hope that anyone who reads this realizes this lady has way too much time on her hands. GOOD LUCK!
Interesting read....
So Lisa, you admit, that Majestic Innovations, is AKA Premier Promtions, Michigan Premier, and a host of other names, and that they DO in fact change their name. Great. Someone can finally admit to this. What a relief! (PS you said yourself that Tim Woodcox signed the contract with his then company name of Premier Promtions. If this is in fact correct, then you are freely admitting this, because he ALSO owns Majestic Innovations.... coincidence?)
I don't feel that my comments are misconceptions. The information that I have gathered, and am confident about has been gathered from wesbites, former 'employees' and my own personal experiences with the 'company' and people with the 'company.' I must admit... the people that have posted here have certainly not impressed me that this would be a 'company' that I would want to be a part of. Yourself included.
I also want to ad that I am a college grad who is wonderfully employed by a real company, with a real job, and a real pay check every two weeks with full benefits. I am fed up and pissed off at Tim Woodcox's 'company' for lying to the public, and for claiming to offer employment when they clearly do not. What part about this do you folks not understand?! You seem to think I am personally attacking Tim Woodcox. I don't know the guy. However, I know that himself, and others like him lie to people every single day offering full or part time employment. And I am not the only one specifically searching for these ads on the weekends. I have many friends and helpers and former 'employees' to help me out.I also have a blog that I maintain faithfully. I am not bored, I just hate this 'company' and what it stands for. It is a rip off, and it is a fraudulent company.
However, I will address a few of your comments.
First of all, Shouldn't business and personal ads
be separate? Would you answer a 'puppies for sale' ad by 'Premier Promotions' for under the owner's name? Would you answer a 'free puppies' ad? This is MLM, you would end of buying the puppy. Interesting that he allows this for his 'friends.'
Only deskholders (ie those who pay RENT to Symmetry) are even allowed to put in an ad. Funny that Tim Woodcox monitors like this....but with the statement that you made, it certainly gives him free reign and the access to do so.
Different offices opening their own locations huh? The office was presented as a co-op and training center. This page[symmetrydirect.com/
company/EventMap_Michigan.htm] only shows three locations in Michigan - Canton, Lansing, and Grand Rapids. They never mentioned opening your own location, except that products are to be delivered to your home or P.O. box, not the office/training center (Symmetry rule). That kind of throws that lie right out the window huh?
Normally franchises require you to start your own business using their name. What does 'Symmetry' have to hide that they won't allow their 'business owners' to do this?
I did go into the office. I was told 'Majestic Innovations' on the phone, and Symmetry Direct when I got there. How is this truth telling?
If the products are the 'best in the industry' where is the proof? I don't see Consumer Reports or the FDA, or anyone else for that matter reporting on Symmetry's 'God-invented' products. Mary Kay claims their makeup is the best... Quixtar and TOD claims their products are the best... I am sure that with Majestic Innovations, Premier Promotions, Symemtry Direct, or whatever they want to call themselves are going to claim that their products are the best too. Give me a break on this please. A pyramid scheme ALWAYS has the best of everything....
Lisa, you claim that I have too much time on your hands, but you yourself replied to my post, and spent more time insulting me than you did defending the great 'company' that you are with.
I will end this with two points.
1.) No one has yet to refute the fact that Tim Woodcox, Majestic Innovations, Premier Promotions, Symmetry Direct and the 'employees' are bold faced lying by offering full or part time employment and placing deceptive employment ads in the local papers, and on college campuses. Can someone explain why this is ok and acceptable? Not to mention 'ethical?' Because I don't think it is!
2.) The comparison to corporations is irrelevant.
Symmetry's sales force titles are similar[
symmetrydirect.com/
company/Recognition.htm- Choose 'Achievement levels'] to the corporate titles[symmetrydirect.com/
company/biographies.htm]. Like Quixtar, pins are given based on number of people enrolled and points earned. Executive Field Vice President is the highest level. You're not the president of your own company when your title is Marketing Rep. or even V.P. There is one president of Symmetry Direct, Milpitas, CA. So stop with the comparisons already....
What is Deceptive?
The ads Amie complains about read like this...
Job Description: Advertising FITNESS Hard working, ambitious individuals who are seeking people-oriented career. Enjoy $$$, travel and fun! Full/part time. No experience necessary. 616-554-**** (1099)
I don't understand what is deceptive. It even states 1099 income. THAT MEANS COMMISSION based in some way. That means it is not hourly or salary. Most likely means if you call the ad, don't expect to be an employee. You will probably be an independent rep of some kind. Again, what is deceptive? If you don't like the sound of it don't call! If it is a type of 1099 that means you could possible make really good money if you are a really self-motivated person?
I bet the ad reads that way so that people like Amie don't call! Lol. Amie should be a writer for the National Enquirer. A professional critic who twists every bit of information she can get her hands on. Are you serious? Lol ha ha ha. It's hopeless to debate with this lady. If you have anything to say that is positive or supporting any type of Network marketing business she will slam it. But if you bash something or some one in a MLM business or anyone by the name of Tim Woodcox then what ever you say is gospel. Ha ha ha. CRAZY! If you live in Grand Rapids Michigan and you deny the success of the Network Marketing industry you are crazy! This city was build largely in part from the success of that industry!
Amie what do have to say about people who invest their entire lives into big strong companies to only be late down when they get laid off or fired because the company struggles…GM, Steel case, Pfizer? Nothing is perfect. Why don't you just worry about yourself and get your self a GOOD J.O.B. If someone else wants to go and take a chance in them selves and build a MLM business, then let them. Many people have failed…. many have made some very decent incomes. It should just like anything else in life to me. Marriage is what 50-50 odds? College degree comes with what guarantee? Job security today is… Most people who go out and start their own traditional business will not make it. And they have to invest Hundreds of thousand of dollars usually. Are you going to call that a scam too?
You need to realize that if no one ever took chance to build a business then most people would not have a job. Someone has to build the business for the rest of the people to have a job. So it's VERY obvious that you will NEVER be building any type of business. That's ok but I think it is VERY sad to see someone like you try to ruin the opportunity for someone else who may try to take a look at the industry. Or for that matter someone who may already be building this business.
My little brother is building a business in the Network Marketing industry and he is doing very well. He is a nice kid. But after my parents read your entries they freaked out and gave him a very, very hard time. After taking the time to really look into the company and its services they are now very big supporters of what he is doing. Because of you though, there were some very intense and unnecessary conversations in our family house. You are not the judge of what is right or wrong, or good or bad. You are ONLY ONE person with one lousy opinion. I think anyone who would make an uneducated decision based just on your personal opinion should seriously consider the source.
Amie is causing way more harm than good by positng things like this. Just look at what she is really saying. Complain complian complain. Not the middle man I would want making my decisions. Just my free opinion.
Ignorance rears its ugly head...
Lisa, how many people understand what '1099' in an employment ad means? Not very many. Especially when it is advertising for full/part-time. This is deceptive. Especially calling itself a 'fitness' company. Last I checked, fitness wasn't overpriced vitamins that you can buy anywhere anytime. Fitness was exercise, work out equipment, etc. Advertising? This is a lot different than stating 'independent distrubutor.' Enjoy $$$, fun and travel? For whom? Tim Woodcox? Travel that you have to pay several hundred dollars for at a time? Money that you may or may not earn? Please.....Career? Not hardly... a way to be taught how to lie, steal, and cheat your way around life. You didn't even respond to the other employment ad that was posted....
It is deceptive, and unethical to call someone, and ask if they are 'looking for full or part time employment' and then to imply that they will be doing customer service and using their graphic design skills. Do you disagree? One girl, Heather, posted this very same story!
I am very pleased to hear that my posts here have caused dialogue and discussion.I hope it does. As you can see, I have encouraged people to check this pyramid scheme out for themselves.
You have done absolutely nothing but run me into the ground. I have done my research, and have not personally attached anyone but the ethics and behavior of this 'company' and the owner, Tim Woodcox. I feel that this 'company' is deceptive and harmful to potentional 'employees.'
I don't know if you are aware or not, but I don't trust Amway, Quixtar, Team of Destiny or their leader any farther than I can throw them. While Grand Rapids was built around this pyramid scheme, I believe that it will potentially collapse once the pyramid does. There are only so many people left in the world. And it is widely reported that Dick Devos, and his family are completely broke. (I am not originally from Michigan even so I could care less how a city came about!)
I encourage those reading Lisa's bitter diatribes to look a little more closely. This is a person who is attacking me personally, and has not even addressed anything or any of the factual information that I have provided here to potential 'independent distributors.'
Your parents have every right to be concerned about your brother; especially if he is working for Majestic Innovations. He will be encouraged to lie to people, to lie to himself, and to be involved with very unethical business practices. I highly encourage them to do more research before your brother wastes more of his time and money than he probably already has.
Forgive me for being an honest, hard-working person, who doesn't believe in 'getting rich fast' or 'believing in the system.' I believe in busting butt to get to the top, and for working for everything I have. Not lying to people, or harming people and taking money from them that they don't have in the first place. I believe in an ethical business practice and for treating people the way that I would want to be treated. I don't support lying, or stealing, so if that makes me a bad person to judge character and make comments on, so be it. I am one person with an informed decision and proud of that. I believe that anyone making a decision based on ignorant attacks and diatribes like the ones you have provided is perfect material for Majestic Innovations though. It seems to help the place stay in operation!
Lisa, I suggest that you do your research into pyramid schemes. I also suggest that you research this company. Talk with former 'employees' as I have. I also suggest that if you can't provide a rebuttal to anything that I have researched and spent time putting here, that you not waste your time anymore. You are doing nothing more than attacking someone's hard research and character that you don't even know!
How much money do you make working this pyramid scheme yourself? If you've made a fortune, I'd love to know about it, other than ramblings and rantings that you have provided. Everyone I have talked to, has lost thousands of dollars... but there is always an exception to every rule. Perhaps you are it!
And you're right about one thing, nothing on this earth is guaranteed at anytime, or any day.
A bit more honesty required..
I must say that you have all done a good job of discussing this issue. I am not necessarily on any one side, but I do have my issues with Symmetry's tactics.
I was contacted last thursday by Jenn, 'because my resume came across her desk', to see if my 'work options' were still open. I was of course sceptical because I hadn't applied to more than 10 jobs in the last month, and 'Chicago Premier' certainly wasn't one of them. So, I asked what kind of company it was, and she said a 'health and wellness educational' company. I knew it was a MLM kinda thing but I went ahead to set up an 'interview'. I was asked to 'dress nice' and 'be on time'. The instructions puzzled me, and they puzzled me enough to think it could somehow be a normal job, so I showed up to the training last night.
I showed up early, about 5:45pm (interview was at 6:30pm) and I was asked to wait outside in the cold because Jenn was in a meeting. I would have walked away if not for the distance I had covered to get there, and the girl who came after me that also was asked to wait outside.
The presentation was nice. But, of course, we were asked to pay $149 for a starter pack. We were encouraged to come for tomorrow's 'power hour' for free, but if we knew we wanted to take this business to the next level, we had to grab the opportunity of the 'Seeds of success' (equivalent to 6 months of 'power hours') this weekend (21st-23rd in Milwaukee). Cost? $300 with a special discount of $105 for a total of $195. We had 3 options to start a)Seeds of success + starter pack b)Seeds of success c)Starter pack or preferred customer. The office owner also gave a money back guarantee for this weekend.
Now, I have an issue with luring me into 'an interview', only to end up getting a high pressure sales talk, AND a request for my money ON THE SPOT.
Network marketing may not be bad, but it becomes suspicious when vital info is left out, and more importantly, when I am not allowed to research BEFORE commiting my money.
Why was it not specified that 5 teams fetching you $300 a month, was actually 35 people? (5 people 7 levels down)
Why was I told that there was no clue when the next Seeds of sucess was going to be held? I don't believe that.
Why am I expected to drop $294 on the SPOT without going home to research and think a bit? Am I some kind of idiot? If I work $10/hr, it would take me nearly 30 hours of work to pay for that....when I am even LOOKING for the work to begin with. They really need to be more upfront, and warn people of an investment somehow, not waste people's time and make them look stupid.
I was thinking of going for the Seeds of success just out of curiosity, but I don't know if losing $200 from work, skipping a fundraiser I am volunteering at, AND paying $195 is worth it.
BTW, is it really true that they rent the tables?
Lisa from Chicago
I have been told by former 'employees' that before you can advertise, or even recruit people under you, that you MUST rent desk space, to even be at that 'level' to do so.
If you go to the Seeds of Success Seminar, please let us know what happens.
My biggest issue, as you can tell, is the deceptive advertising and recruiting techniques.... Good luck with whatever decision you make!
I was told this in regards to the desk space rental
You must recruit 2 people in order to rent a desk.
Seeds of Success is a weekend of high-pressure salesfor the tools. They offer specials, but you still have to put your upline's phone number on the flyers you have to buy. Your upline gets the sales from those flyers because they answer the phone.
'The tools are optional, but so is success.'
They, do, however, explain why they made the overviewand power hour the way they did.
The emphasis is on recruiting at SOS.
Submitted: 4/20/2006 12:42:38 PM
Modified: 4/20/2006 12:42:38 PM
Danielle
Randallstown, MarylandU.S.A.
Distinctive Marketing Solutions Scam
Don't Forget Distinctive Marketing Solutions!!! It is a branch of Cydcor which is a branch of DS Max. It is straight commission, there is no health care and training is not paid. Also, suspiciously my pay check was never what it was suppose to be. There was always some reason that an application didn't go through, and I was missing money! Don't be fooled, this is not a good job for anyone who went to college! They prey on the naive, don't be one of them! You also are required to work atleast 12 hour days sometimes more, use your own car for traveling to your territory, and you pay for gas. It is almost cult(ish). Beware the people seem nice, but they are using you.
Presented as Employment
I recieved a call from Paula Lopez the week of April 17th from Majestic Innovations. The voice mail stated that 'I was referred to you by a friend' and asked if I was 'still looking for employment'. When I returned her call it was obvious in the first 2 minutes that it was a similar organization to alticor (Amway) in the way that it operates. I immediatley asked who gave her my number and she said 'I lost the piece of paper'.
While this may or may not be a bad thing, anyone who has been involved in sales/business for more then a week will take it at face value rather quickly. With any business you get what you put into it and while some may feel it is a 'scam' the fact is that if it were illegal it would have been addressed by authorities.
note: any business that asks you for an 'interview' after regular business hours is more then likely not a conventional business model.
corrections
There is no requirements to be a desk holder. The office lease holder makes the decision on whether or not someone can become a desk holder, based on maturity, and if they could be an asset to the office. You can put whatever number you want to on the flyers, they SUGGEST you put your upline desk holder's number on there, with an extension number on it, so that someone can answer the phone when you cant be in the office.
And also, if you put out a flyer, your upline doesn't get the sales or the bonuses from the person that comes in, that is your person. You get the enroller's bonus and that person is placed on your front level. When it comes to the quote Amie made, 'Tools are optional, but so is success', what is shady about that; it is the truth. The trainers at SOS know how to have success. They suggest those tools to you, to help you build your business better, because they know what works and what doesn't. They dont make money off of you buying books or anything. Nothing is required, it is just suggested for you to have an easier time building your business. On another note, you do not need to be a deskholder to enroll people under you.
The office lease holders dont want you to run an ad until you reach a level, because it costs money to run an ad, and they want you to have some success, so that you can afford to run an ad. But there are many other ways of reaching people without doing ads. Remember, you are in your own business, so you can do whatever you want, your upline suggests things that make it easier to build your business, because they have made the mistakes already. They want you to reach success as fast as you can because that helps them out. They woulnd't try to mislead you, there is no reason. If it doesn't help, they wont suggest it. Also, those of you who have read all of these posts, please realize that obviously this business isn't for everyone, but at least check it out for yourself, other than listening to one or two people's opinions about a company that has changed my life and the lives of many others. This is not an unethical business. A couple of people take the facts and twist them to make this business sound bad. Notice the people who have made negative comments about this company have either not got involved, or were in the business for a very short time, please take that in mind. Thanks
Deceptive 'Employment'
The information that I have provided, and have received has come from numerous former employees, who have shared this information with me. I have not 'twisted it' or 'revised' it in any way, but have simply shared, what has been passed on to me.
There is no reason, whatsoever, to offer employment to someone when it is not an employment option. Majestic Innovations is continuing to do this, and this is unethical, and unprofessional. It is also deceptive, no matter who you are.
I also don't believe that anyone in the 'upline' is willing to 'help' you, other than for the sole purpose of fattening their own pocket book, just like any other pyramid scheme.
Submitted: 4/28/2006 7:59:58 AM
Modified: 4/28/2006 7:59:58 AMHeather
Grand Rapids, MichiganU.S.A.
Investment Required
To follow up on my previous report:
I talked to the girl at Magestic Innovations a few days after I filed my first comment, and asked her if the pay was salary, hourly or commission. She responded, 'We get paid on a ten-ninety-nine basis.' I wanted to force a straight answer so I asked, 'What does that mean?' She said, 'It's a commission.'
Now why would they be reluctant to use the word 'commission'?
I then asked if the position would require an investment and she confirmed that it would. I said, 'I'm sorry, I want a job where I go, do the work, get a paycheck and go home.' And I cancelled my 'interview' which was actually a sales pitch.
Businesses that believe in their products are not afraid to hire people on an hourly basis because they are confident they will sell enough product to cover overhead expenses, such as paychecks for sales people, and still make excellent profits. Businesses that believe the jobs they offer are good jobs do not have to obscure or delay revealing pertinent details because they know the jobs will be attractive to prospective employees. Finally, if a business believes it will succeed as it skims off the tops of its 'employee's' sales, why would that business CHARGE those employees 'start-up fees,' conference fees, material fees, and on and on? Would it not be in their best interest to find good salespeople and GIVE them everything they need to be successful, believing that ultimately they will make more money through their salespeople's success than through the sale of Business Paraphernalia to its own employees?
I hope that those who read all these diatribes and rebuttals will just go to the websites indicated and look for themselves. They are not always easy to find on one's own. Majestic Innovations wants to keep the details of all the conferences, 'conference bucks' you must earn, and training sessions obscure until they've hooked you with their big sales pitch. You will also see that they make vague claims about their products somehow tapping