Report: Northcentral University On-line
Category: Colleges and Universities
Northcentral University On-line Beware of on-line PhD programs Prescott , Arizona Internet
*Consumer Comment ..Reality of Online Education!!
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Northcentral University On-line
Fax: 928-541-7817
Internet, Nationwide,
U.S.A.
Submitted: 2/11/2007 5:27:26 PM
Modified: 8/13/2008 1:13:56 PM
Richard
Florida, FloridaBeware of the Ph.D. on-line programs.
Please help me find the appropriate outlets to discuss on-line doctoral programs. I believe that we need to bring the deception to the forefront this year. I would like to explore several alternatives. Unless something is done soon, I believe that regional accreditation is going to lose value in the market place. The schools with weak programs and that use deception are going to destroy the market value that many major corporations have built. In order to stay in this market many of the large for profit private schools may need to seek AACSB accreditation or risk the lost of a declining image of regional accreditation.
Beware of the correspondence Ph.D. on-line programs with no residence requirements.
Northcentral University is a good example of a school that will bring down the standards of regional accreditation. Northcentral University on-line purports to be 100% online but is primarily a correspondence school. NCU uses deceptive advertising. It purports to have an online Ph.D. program. The school is a distance education correspondence program. It is not conducted over the Internet. The Internet capability of the university is grossly ineffective and is one of the weak links in its program. There is no interaction with students and very little, if any, assessment or interaction with professors. It is what one of my colleagues called, a glorified correspondence school. Yet, NCU continues to promote itself as an on-line delivery system simply because there may be some limited emails and download files or information. NCU may try to compare itself to large private programs, but these schools are mostly owned by publicly held corporations that are subject to Sarbanes Oxley and thus a higher standard of accountability. They also have the resources to provide multi-media on-line educational programs as well as the library and faculty resources to provide a viable program. NCU does not have any of these. NCU has demonstrated very little accountability or service initiative. Although NCU is accredited, it promotes its services in a deceptive manner. It should be classified with unethical marketing scams. It is not an on-line program. It is a correspondence school.
NCU is not a student friendly environment, nor is it transparent and accountable in its disclosure. NCU advertising is deceptive and I believe that this is wrong and should be changed and or reported to the public at large. Their student service is not effective and their focus is primarily on money. Students will receive much better service from large traditional or private universities. They continue to use false advertising and this warrants public disclosure and, at least, preventing others from falling for NCU's deceptions. Although they may rank well in terms of cost, please remember, you get what you pay for. And you will not get much from this correspondence school.
Students should search for an AACSB school or a regionally credited school that has a long successful history and/ or is backed by a credible organization that has the resources to provide a top rated program.
There is no doubt that on-line education and alternative delivery educational programs are an increasing trend. But there is a great difference in the educational quality of the various programs. There is a vast difference in the quality of regional accredited programs. Sadly, Northcentral on-line may be the one that clearly pulls down the image of regional accreditation. Prospective students, employers and the educational community must be informed of this about this matter in order to make wise choices. 2007 should be the year to bring this out to the public at large and I hope that you play a role in helping with this process.
UOP has a doctorial program that is not AACSB accredited. Many teaching jobs in business schools required professors who are AACSB qualified. UOP has the potential to devote the resources to create a viable program. There has not been much discussion of the doctoral programs at UOP or whether they would ever seek AACSB accreditation. Students who desire a career in academia should beware of online programs that do not have substantial residential requirements.
Currently there are no on-line AACSB schools. Schools that offer alternative delivery PhD programs that may have credibility at the doctoral level could include the University of Maryland University College and Nova Southeastern.
The University of Maryland University College is one of 11 degree granting institutions of the University of Maryland system. Thus, it is a public university. Information on their doctorate in management can be found at:
http://www.umuc.edu/grad/dm/dm_home.shtml
Complete transparency on the University of Maryland University college accreditation and self study can be found at:
http://www.umuc.edu/middlestates/index.shtml
Nova southeastern is a private university and offers doctorate programs that are closer to traditional programs than the on-line programs. That is, they required residency via attendance of classes for their doctorate in business degree programs. They do offer on-line programs for other levels but not at the business doctorate level. This may be a selling point for their program for those wanting to enter academia in the teaching profession.
Information on Nova's accreditation activities can be found at:
http://www.nova.edu/rpga/accreditation.html
Nova is accredited by International Assembly for Collegiate Business Education and Commission on Colleges of the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS).
Information on their doctorate programs can be found at:
http://www.huizenga.nova.edu/FutureStudents/Doctoral/DBA.cfm
Nova's web site is very transparent and they include syllabus for each class.
Nova also published their strategic plan.
http://www.nova.edu/cwis/strategic_plan/index.html.
Nova has made great achievements over the year and their doctorate program seem to be well structure and is expected to receive greater acceptance in academia. Nova is a non profit private university.
These are just two alternatives to on-line programs. There may be other viable programs that will gain credibility in academia. If you are not interested in teaching, then the accreditation and credibility of the school's program is of lesser importance.
Perhaps before you select a program, you should talk with potential university employers and ask them if they would hire you based on the PhD program you are considering. Both the reputation of the school and its specific program as well and faculty and student research will be considered in the employment decision. Please beware of the Ph.D. on-line programs. Do your homework wisely!
Richard
Florida, Florida
U.S.A.
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Updates & Rebuttals:
- Agreed: Northcentral is a horrible correspondence school masquerading as an online university Takashi [3/25/2007 4:18:37 PM]
- Discuss On-Line Doctoral Programs Takashi [3/25/2007 5:09:34 PM]
- Student Christine [6/7/2007 2:33:06 AM]
- If you read the info above, know it is invalid... B [8/20/2007 9:42:30 PM]
- NCU is exceptional in my experience and here's why. . . . J [10/4/2007 10:26:30 AM]
- Misunderstanding Online Education Liz B [10/4/2007 5:54:49 PM]
- I see an I.D.10 T. Error amung us. Billh - Ncu Phd [10/5/2007 10:14:21 AM]
- I have a different Opinion Kenw [10/5/2007 6:39:34 PM]
- Who is paying the bill? Doughboy [10/17/2007 4:12:51 PM]
- NCU is a Fully-Accredited, Reputable University With High-Quality Programs Beth [10/22/2007 7:49:09 AM]
- NCU is exceptional Jim [10/30/2007 2:42:31 PM]
- NCU is ACSB accredited. This report is based on out of date information. James [12/9/2007 4:06:54 PM]
- Not sure where you've been Azuk [12/13/2007 11:57:52 AM]
- Perspective learner Michael [12/24/2007 8:14:38 PM]
- Factual Corrections from a current NCU student Brian [1/6/2008 10:52:21 AM]
- Response to Richard Paul [2/1/2008 7:28:42 AM]
- AACSB Bryan [2/12/2008 9:08:28 AM]
- AACSB Certified Blynn [2/13/2008 8:10:59 PM]
- AACSB Certified Blynn [2/13/2008 8:11:49 PM]
- Hurry, only 3 years left to get an accredited degree from NCU. Reverendrick [3/6/2008 3:48:31 PM]
- NCU runs similar to other schools Geesilly [3/13/2008 12:55:00 PM]
- IF YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT ACCREDITATION READ THIS POST B [3/27/2008 5:41:13 PM]
- NCU and HLC, sleeping with each other or just friends? Reverendrick [5/14/2008 1:58:54 PM]
- PHD level coursework and research are not for everyone! Riz [6/22/2008 6:59:36 PM]
- Get a PhD from NCU and improve your research skills Partypooper [7/15/2008 5:49:52 PM]
- Phd entrance requirements too high! Mark [7/20/2008 10:34:44 AM]
- Don't agree with negative Northcentral University assessment Robin [7/22/2008 9:08:26 AM]
- Reality of Online Education!! Allen [8/13/2008 1:04:33 PM]
Submitted: 3/25/2007 4:18:37 PM
Modified: 3/25/2007 6:36:24 PM
Takashi
Tortuga, MassachusettsU.S.A.
Agreed: Northcentral is a horrible correspondence school masquerading as an online university
I had the misfortune of enrolling in the PhD program at Northcentral and found it to be exactly as described in the complaint. It is not an 'online' school as the term is usually understood. Rather, it is a correspondence school, and not a particularly good one at that.
Further, the PhD program itself is a complete joke, particularly the dissertation portion. Anyone considering Northcentral really ought to compare the substance and quality (or lack thereof) of this program against those of any 'real' PhD program. Northcentral comes up very short in every meaningful criterion.
The question you have to ask yourself is whether you (or your employer) should pay (or borrow) good money for a degree that is grossly substandard to those offered by even the lowest rung of reputable schools. If you are just doing it to have something to hang on your wall, a visit to a print shop can get you something with about equal value for a lot less money. If you really want a degree that represents academic achievement and that will be respected by others who know better, look elsewhere.
Submitted: 3/25/2007 5:09:34 PM
Modified: 3/26/2007 2:01:26 AMTakashi
Tortuga, MassachusettsU.S.A.
Discuss On-Line Doctoral Programs
'Please help me find the appropriate outlets to discuss on-line doctoral programs.'
BTW Richard, that topic and your report are being discussed here:
dltruth.com/showthread.php?tid=147
Student
Hello- I am a PhD student at NCU and have found this school to be nothing other than great! Their staff is among the best and very helpful. The facilitators are experienced, detailed, and well paid! NCU just obtained the AACSB business accreditation in 2007!
This online school bashing is just terrible. So many studies have been done showing no difference in the education or learning of the students.
If you read the info above, know it is invalid...
Since this guy decided to post in my UOP online forum here on ROR I thought I would return the favor. I do this with reluctance because I do not want to draw more attention to the invalid information he is offering herein. Oh well.
First, he is making a blanket statement denouncing all online PhD programs as programs that clearly pulls down the image of regional accreditation. Let me start by pointing out this individual clearly has no clue how regional accreditation works. There are 6 regional accrediting bodies in the US. These are the gold standard of accreditation. People assume that there is some standard litmus test every institution that received regional accreditation must pass. This is wrong. O
bviously there are different types of institutions, promoting different types and levels of education, for different types of careers, for different types of educational consumers. The basic purpose of regional accrediting bodies is to ensure that institutions of higher education define their goals for governance and learning, and that they are able to achieve those goals.
Basically, what content, at what level are your students supposed to learn? How do you know, measure, or demonstrate that they are learning or have learned? How does the infrastructure and governance of the institution support these efforts in a clear non-conflicting manner? If an institution retains the ability to demonstrate that consistently and the academic content is demonstrated to be on par with what the accrediting body has established as a baseline of expectations within that degree and level, the institution can receive and maintain accreditation.
Richard here would like you to believe that somehow, the approximately 100 regionally accredited online colleges are somehow driving down the standards when compared to the 3000+ regionally accredited traditional institutions. Speaking from experience, online entities are scrutinized by the accrediting bodies more so than the ground campuses and therefore held to a higher standard.
He claims that more institutions will seek AACSB accreditation or risk loss because of declining regionally accreditation. Well gee, that would make sense if every college out there offered business degrees or if AACSB accredited programs outside of business. Yes, AACSB is well respected, as is APA, ACE, CACREP, AAMFT, and the literally hundreds of other additional, program specific accreditations an institution can go after. Of course this is assuming that the institution in question has programs that are relevant to the accreditation. Rick here is attempting to confuse you with irrelevant information to distract you from the reality.
He makes claims like schools with weak programs that use deception are going to destroy market value but cites nothing to demonstrate what defines a weak program or deceptive practices. What he wants you to believe is that he somehow has a keen intellect regarding what defines a weak program but somehow the accrediting bodies (who just happen to be the professionals) know nothing.
He goes on to use more irrelevant talking points such as the Sarbanes Oxley Act in what I can only see as an attempt to make the reader believe that this act has some type of relevance here. First, the Sarbanes Oxley act was just passed in 2002 and became necessary because of the accounting fraud engaged in by companies like Enron, World Com and Tyco. This is an SEC issue for publicly traded companies. He attempts to lay claim to the fact that publicly traded companies operate in a more “ethical†manner than non public companies because they must. Let's consider for a moment that the SO Act governs all publicly traded organizations. The vast majority of businesses in the US are not publicly traded. Therefore they too must operate in an unethical manner when it comes to accounting.
Not being publicly traded has no relation to an entities capacity to operate ethically when it comes to accounting. He limits this to the world of education in an attempt to attack an online university called NCU. He obviously has a personally vendetta against this entity but will not disclose why. He hides behind his claim that he thinks all online PhD programs are sub-par. The well known UOP which is publicly traded has shown that the SO Act does not stop an organization from engaging in unethical practices.
Richard fails to mention that governance of regionally accredited institutions includes finances and accounting practices. To comply with accreditation finances and accounting must not have any conflicts of interest. Richard also fails to mention that the IRS tends to be a little picky when it comes to accounting and scrutinizing income.
Above he seems to be attacking NCU specifically and also going after Walden, Capella and all other entities offering PhD's online.
I am extremely familiar with all of these institutions. All the information he provides regarding NCU is wrong. It is not a correspondence school. NCU uses a totally different format for educational delivery. The instruction is 1 on 1, no learning teams, no check-ins. NCU does not use Federal Title IV so no US tax dollars are being added to NCUs profits. This cannot be said at any other accredited online PhD program I am aware of.
My recommendation is to call or email NCU and speak with someone there just as I did. Have them send you a syllabus and give you an overview of their proprietary student-teacher interface system which uses asynchronous chat functions to interact. This is the same as many other institutions like Walden and Capella, however most other online entities use Web CT or Blackboard. Richard is using invalid info to attack NCU to appease his personally agenda. Bottom line, he knows nothing.
He also provides a link to Walden U in his statement denouncing online ed again. Walden is a good program and a great value. He attacks NCU again in that part but ties it to Walden. Walden and NCU are very different, both very good programs.
Ultimately Richard is using a tactic here that is old and played out, to support a personal agenda and attack online education, specifically NCU. He will not disclose why, and hides behind a claim that he has a problem with online in general. The tactic he is trying to use has been used before by others who felt threatened by the evolution of online education. When online education started is was viewed as invalid by traditional education. Then as traditional ed realized the potential of the adult education market, they changed their view to get at some of the money. Suddenly online education could be valid if used as a supplemental tool for traditional education.
However, traditional education stood by their view that the old way is the only valid way any degree could be earned. Evolution continued and today the tune by traditional education is that online education can be used to grant degree's but only if those degrees are earned at a traditional campus. So what we have over the last 30 years is online education being shunned by traditional ed to hundreds of traditional colleges offering full online degrees. Those once in control of education have lost that control. Online is here to stay. It is a valid form of education at ALL LEVELS. Richard wants to use this same argument to attack PhD's as if these degrees are so elite and so above what average joe can achieve, that no online program could possibly be legit. He has nothing to support this claim.
Lastly Richard suddenly starts promoting University of Maryland and NOVA. While I know very little about Maryland's program I am familiar with NOVA's. NOVA is a great school but only offers an EDS, EDD and DBA online. These are doctorate degrees, but they are applied doctorates not PhD research doctorates. To show you how little research Richard did, he forgets to mention that Dr. Claudia Santin is the president of NCU. Dr. Santin just happened to be at NOVA and helped design and launch the education doctorate programs at NOVA. I guess suddenly she left NOVA, went to NCU and forgot how to make and maintain a quality education program.
Like I said, I hate posting in here because it draws attention to this thread by Richard.
Bottom line. Anyone who reads his thread, please go do your own research about online colleges and programs before you render decision. Richard has no clue what he is talking about.
Later,
B
NCU is exceptional in my experience and here's why. . . .
I am a Licensed Psychologist in California attending NCU for self-enrichment and to gain a complementary skill set in order to enhance patient care. Compared to the APA accredited program I attended about 15 years ago, NCU is just as rigorous at the masters level as my doctoral program. Indecently, that APA accredited school was excellent enough to prepare me, unlike most in my test-taking cohort, to pass both the written and oral licensing exams the 1ST time.
The major benefit to NCU besides the academic rigor & the distance format (i.e. no traffic, fuel and rigid schedule) is the incredible student instructor ratio. In my case , 2:1. We communicate in depth almost daily with dialogue that the traditional 1:15 ratio schools can't duplicate. And the instructor is a leader in his field whose motivation appears to be to give back to society one learner at a time.
Misunderstanding Online Education
I am a huge proponent of Online Education, and as a result I am inclined to defend it; or at least explain it's purpose. I am currently a doctoral candidate in the department of education at Northcentral University. I received my Masters from the University of Phoenix Online and my Bachelors from University of Scranton ground campus. My son, diagnosed with ADD who dropped out of school, earned his high school diploma from PCDI's James Madison High School.
It seems that when individuals think of online learning or distance learning they have a perception that class is conducted in real-time. While at times this may be the case, it is the exception. At least in the field of education, it is atypical to find live classrooms, powerpoint presentations, video demonstrations or other technological bells and whistles that one may come to presume from a distance learning institution.
For whatever reason University of Phoenix felt the need to impliment learning teams. I found this activity an intrusion on my personal learning goals and an interferrence with my personal life and study schedule. Initially, mandatory attendence, postings and responses served a purpose and assited me in achieveing a broader vision of most of the topic areas; however, there did come a time when this mandatory activity did assimilate itself to 'beating a dead horse' by regurgetating the same comment/s in various ways. What I do like about Northcentral University is the fact that I am assumed to be a responsible adult learner, that I will ask for help if I need it, that I will complete my assessments in a timely manner, and that I will initiate communication with fellow students if I am interested in a more social academic experience. I find the referrence to NCU as a glorified correspondence school humorous and a testament to ignorance of the function of a fully online university. Online learning is rigorous, independent work that requires a tremendous amount of self-discipline.
To NCU I say thank you for sparing me the mandatory chat rooms, emails, group learning, cohort workshops and anything else that takes me away from my ability to concentrate and learn. Thank you for the tremendously supportive staff and mentors who take a genuine interest in my learning goals. I take pride in being a part of this University and have enjoyed watching your tremndous growth over the last couple of years and wish you continued success.
Submitted: 10/5/2007 10:14:21 AM
Modified: 10/5/2007 10:25:30 AMBillh - Ncu Phd
Lansing, IllinoisU.S.A.
I see an I.D.10 T. Error amung us.
Richard,
I do not feel your article justifies an answer. Clearly you are speaking from third hand knowledge at best. If you were a registered student at NCU, you would have found that it is one of the best schools out there, has the highest of recommendations, major accreditation, and even though it is less than 10 years old, probably making it the youngest school on the market, it has grown 5 X over since 2005. This bogus quality you speak of is pathetic at best. Your allogations are unfounded and unproven. Basically, you have just reinforced my belief in my school, because all my fellow PhD classmates, and the PhD learners that have graduated, do not put out products like your article..... so before you slam something you know nothing about... Get a 'Real Education'.
Bill H.
'Real Student' with a 'Real Education'
Northcentral University - PhD Student
Submitted: 10/5/2007 6:39:34 PM
Modified: 10/5/2007 8:03:27 PMKenw
Charlotte, North CarolinaU.S.A.
I have a different Opinion
I began pursuit of a PhD from Northcentral University in 2003. I have found the program to be well run, facilitated learning, and worth the money I have paid. I would not caegorize NCU as more than what it is ... a distance learning program. NCU offers non-traditional classes, and these are well-suited for the Learner that cannot take summers off to attend dull 'in residence' classes on a tired B&M campus somewhere being taught by graduate students.
It is true that NCU has been regionally accredited. it is true that NCU has been certified by ABCSP NOT AACSB. We want to be certified by AACSB, but that is a future state condition that Dr. Santin, and Dr. Turner are probably working on. Both Dr. Santin and Dr. Turner have credentials that reflect an exciting assortment of experiences which I shall not recite here, just check them out for yourselves. I have completed all the core requirements, and I am currently working on my research requirements (pounding out a concept paper, then a dissertation proposal).
Richard appears to me to be trying to justify a continuing wail from the overpriced B&M programs, and their underperforming Professors that only their programs are real and constitute the only way to get a 'real' PhD. I disagree. I am a bright, hared working adult with family obligations, and I cannot stop my life to 'do it' their way. Sorry, not going to happen. I have found the better way, and I am on it now.
Richard, whatever your hurt, why would you malign the rest of us for your inability to perform? Or, is there something else? I will wait for your next move.
Who is paying the bill?
This is in response to 'Richard.' It is unfortunate that comments like his get into the Internet without rebuttal due to the 'Michael Moore Effect,' that if enough people see his comments - without another viewpoint, then they must be true, no matter how unfounded or distorted they are.
I'm not as eloquent as 'B,' but thought I'd get in my two cents worth. Unlike Richard, who prefers NOT to disclose his affiliations, I am currently a student with NCU and do not agree with him on pretty much all of his points.
1. First, let me dispense with what I do agree with, that is, he has a valid point regarding some 'online schools' as rip-offs and consumers must do some research prior to signing on with them. For example, some schools are not regionally or nationally accredited. NCU is accredited by the Higher Learning Commission of North Central Association of Colleges and Schools (an independent accrediting organization that also accredits the big 'brick and mortar' universities. NCU's accreditation is current (as of 10/17/2007) and is valid until a reinspection prior to 2/25/08. Concerned consumers can confirm this by going to the NCAHLC website at: ncahlc.org/index.phpoption=com_content&task=view&id=93&Itemid=206
2. I'm at a loss who Richard works for. His comments lead me to believe that he works for a traditional 'brick and mortar' school, one of the 'other' online schools (potentially fighting a marketing campaign against NCU??), or the AACSB? While I cannot discuss the merits of that organization, I can say that NCU is accredited by ACBSP, but I'm not expert enough to know if one is better than the other. The point is, NCU has been screened by a business school accreditation organization and found to meet its standards. So what's Richard saying here - is it the old playground argument of 'his organization is better than mine?'
3. While not associated with AACSB (I guess two A's at the beginning of your name are better than one), NCU recently was accredited by the Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP), an international business school and program accrediting association. Again, I cannot speak of the relative merits of this accreditation, but I've got to believe that as a program attractive to international schools, ACBSP must follow an objective process similar to the AACSB is followed in order to receive accreditation status.
Concerned consumers can verify NCU's accreditation by going to the ACBSP website at:
acbsp.org/index.php?mo=st&op=ld&sid=s1_039&rgn=7
In the future, perhaps NCU will also seek AACSB accreditation - further weakening Richard's argument.
4. I also checked NCU's status with the US Department of Veteran's Affairs Educational programs and the Department of Defense's Tuition Assistance Program and found that NCU is in good standing with both these programs allowing students to sign up with NCU and have their tuition paid through these programs. While some federal government programs are not serviced by NCU (a totally different argument), it seems incredulous that federal auditors for those programs have not looked into NCU's accounting processes or educational delivery processes and are satisfied enough to keep these program options open. If NCU were as ill-managed as Richard would have one believe, I cannot imagine the DVA or IRS or another federal watch-dog agency not shutting down NCU very quickly.
5. Richard may have a minor point in that NCU does not specialize in 'real-time, online' classroom delivery, and sometimes, there's something to be said by sitting in a classroom listening to a lecture, but not always. I've taken similar courses in real classrooms and unless one lives on campus (most of us do not - particularly those of us in the real-world workforce who cannot live on campus) the delivery of large data files, real-time video, etc. is impractical. For all I know, NCU may be working on such a system at this time. Richard would have you believe that it truly is a better educational experience to sit in a lecture hall (Freshman English 101 Large Group Lecture) at just about any brick and mortar school versus working on a project at your own convenience even if downloaded from a website.
6. Like any process, there are advantages/disadvantages to Internet-based educational delivery. Sitting in a library to do research is a luxury that most of us working students can't do it with our schedules. I've found the staff of NCU to be most helpful, that includes the Business Office, the Library and on occasion the Mentors. I recall specifically, during one of my first classes, I'd just come back from a two-week field exercise and had not been able to work an assignment. I called the mentor and had a great discussion on getting an extension and how I could complete the course without penalty. I've called NCU on several occasions and except for the huge time difference, they are responsive. I've had less responsiveness at a brick and mortar institution, where bureaucracy runs supreme.
7. Richard's comment about 'NCU being financially-driven,' is fey. I'd like to see any brick and mortar institution or other online school that doesn't have financial viability as a goal, or has he never heard of a 'booster club' or 'alumni association?' Actually, NCU charges less per credit than many of the other similar schools - like Phoenix or Walden for example. Even the brick and mortar schools that have online programs charge very high tuition - why is this? Would one of these schools break down their tuition versus direct online delivery costs to see if the student is getting a 'fair' deal? I think not. Every school has a margin over cost factor - in the public schools it's poured back into the institution instead of paid out as dividends or profits, but what's the difference to the student? Point is, NCU charges a reasonable fee.
8. NCU is new and online or Internet-based delivery is still relatively new, but the world is changing and this method of education is becoming more acceptable. Many old institutions still maintain a high level of self-importance and academic snobbery - most unjustified or self-serving, towards Internet-based educational delivery. If NCU continues to maintain a high standard and retain accreditation by the Higher Learning Commission of North Central Association of Colleges and Schools or similar, if they can undergo scrutiny by the DVA and DoD Educational programs and maintain ACBSP accreditation or perhaps seek a similar accreditation from another organization, than Richard's argument that 'NCU is a rip-off' is unfounded and NCU should not rightly be compared to other organizations that cannot meet these standards.
9. It is true that you get out of education what you put into it and I welcome anyone to review my coursework that I've completed towards my degree. I put in the same level of effort towards the NCU courses as I would towards any other school, I just didn't have the luxury of sitting in a classroom in the middle of the day. NCU's methods accomodates working students. Richard's arguments seem to criticize this delivery method when discussin NCU, but at the same time supports other, similar schools (Phoenix, Univ. of Maryland, Nova, etc.) - so which is it Richard - is it the method of delivery or is it just the messenger?
Richard, if you truly had a bad experience with NCU and this is your way of getting even, I sympathize; maybe you could have worked through it. If your motive is something else entirely, for your readers, you need to come clean with your motives, your agenda, your employer and your rationale for putting NCU in a negative spotlight. You are right in that some organizations pretend to be schools, but unlike them, NCU is heading in the right direction.
Regards,
Doughboy
NCU is a Fully-Accredited, Reputable University With High-Quality Programs
The comments made by Richard are untrue. NCU is a fully-accredited, reputable, distance-learning university. Yes, NCU is non-traditional, but non-traditional does not equal bad. In fact, nontraditional is actually the best option for many students. Calling NCU a correspondence school is an uninformed statement. NCU has excellent I.T. resources and provides learners with high-quality distance learning opportunities with plenty of interaction between mentors and learners.
I have two master's degrees from brick and mortar traditional universities, so I can accurately compare the quality of education at traditional universities with the quality of education at NCU. NCU curriculum is very rigorous, and both the mentors and the students are well-prepared and well-qualified.
I have read literally hundreds of dissertations from students from all types of universities, and the dissertations from NCU students are every bit as comprehensive and scholarly as dissertations from other colleges' students.
Distance learning is the modality of the future, so traditional universities might feel threatened. However, there is room in the education field for all types of universities, and traditional schools need to stop trying to discredit high-quality schools like NCU. When on-line banking was first introduced, people were wary of doing their banking on-line. Now, it's the fastest-growing way to conduct financial transactions. New approaches to traditional ways of doing things should be welcomed, not feared. I'm very proud of my affiliation with NCU.
NCU is exceptional
I'm sorry all, but I have to chime in here as a current student at NCU and completely rebuke Richard's off the wall comments. Is it any wonder that he has yet to respond to any of your rebuttals?
There is one important fact that has not been mentioned about NCU -- the partnerships NCU maintains with other universities. These bridge programs, often with bricks and mortars institutions, produce viable and efficient means for both parties to expand their offerings and produce value adding services to the consumer (student). In my case, I received my first Masters from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Through the bridge program ERAU maintains with NCU, I was able to make a smooth transition and feel confident that a well respected and long tenured school like ERAU had such confidence in NCU. That was the major selling feature as far as I was concerned. Oh, and you know what else is interesting? I looked at other schools on the ASBSP website and discovered that well known bricks and mortars state and private schools are on that list. Just food for thought. No, I didn't see Harvard, or Yale, or Columbia, but there are some good B-schools on that list regardless.
Thanks for reading!
Submitted: 12/9/2007 4:06:54 PM
Modified: 12/9/2007 7:12:42 PM
James
Frederocksburg, VirginiaU.S.A.
NCU is ACSB accredited. This report is based on out of date information.
Good day,
As a doctoral graduate of one of Northcentral University's Ph.D. programs, I'd like to take a moment to offer my professional disagreement with this report and to offer an important correction to erroneous information it contains.
This report claims that NCU is not ACSB accredited. While true at the time of this report, I am glad to report that NCU has achieved its ACSB accreditation - a testament to its professionalism, standards, and acceptance in the larger educational community. That makes NCU the ONLY ACSB accredited fully online school.
NCU advertises itself as a cost-effective, time-flexible, regionally accredited distance learning program offering a high quality education. I found all of these to be true. In fact, as a previous victim of an online school who misrepresented its credentials, I can attest to NCU's credibility. I have never found NCU's advertisements deceptive.
One indication of a school's credibility is the ability of its students to have academic papers accepted by peer-reviewed journals. Since graduation I have had one paper selected as the best paper at a national conference, I have had one paper accepted for publication after under-going peer review, and I have two more papers under peer review at this time. Clearly, NCU prepares students to function at a level equal to that of other institutions.
Online education in all its forms requires a well-informed and committed student. I regret that some students experience unfortunate events during their educational paths. However, I must report that my own personal experiences with NCU were all positive. I am glad to report that NCU does not discourage student discussion of problems they experience. In short, NCU has nothing to hide and encourages an open dialogue.
Also, in distance learning, as in other forms of education, the quality of education is directly relate to the combined efforts of student and staff alike. NCU opens many doors to education as well as to professionals working daily as experts in their field - if a student has the maturity and the desire to take advantage of them.
Is NCU a rip-off? No. I disagree.
One final note. Since my graduation from NCU I have accepted a position there as an Adjunct Faculty. Formerly as student but now an insider, I can personally attest to NCU's commitment to its learners on many levels, to include quality of education, diversity, and fairness. These are commitments I take seriously.
If I felt NCU was a 'rip-off' I would not have graduated from its program and I would not have become a member of its organization.
Not sure where you've been
Northcentral is a legitimate online school that has taken massive strides to update their curriculum. They've recently hired a provost that is a double doctorate, Yale graduate, has done substantial research, teaches international and has written programs for universities all over the world. They've also hired a new President that is just as credible.
Those of you who have an issue with online programs shouldn't attend one. If one can pass the GMAT or the GRE there is no reason to attend a traditional university. Arizona State and the University of Arizona are examples, they offer Graduate programs for working adults, why not take advantage of the once-a-week format?
Perspective learner
I just wanted to thank everyone for their comments. I am currently researching NCU as a potential for my PHD. I have found the information above to be very helpful.
Factual Corrections from a current NCU student
I am a current NCU student with an extensive educational and professional background -- BA History, BS Computer Science, MS Public Admin, MS Network Security. I am a part time associate professor at an extension campus of a major traditional (100+ year old) brick-and-mortar university -- I teach computer networking and network security.
My educational experience at NCU has been exceptional. The faculty and staff have been incredibly supportive and responsive. They always return a call/email within a day or so (try that at a traditional state/private university).
For the record:
Northcentral University is indeed accredited by The Higher Learning Commission and a member of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools.
Northcentral University's School of Business & Technology Management is also accredited by the Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP).
FYI -- The well-respected graduate school where I teach is just now undergoing its ACBSP accreditation.
Response to Richard
It seems as though your real complaint should be with the accreditation commissions. NCU went through the 'traditional' accreditation process and was granted accreditation by the regional body (and they are going through the reaccreditation process now -- go to their website and submit your comments). NCU has a very extensive online library system that rivals most universities -- please check it out before making a blanket comment. They certainly were not much in the beginning but have improved greatly over the years (but still not a Harvard or Yale).
My Educational Specialist and doctoral degrees are from Nova Southeastern University. I 'attended' classes on campus two weeks a year. Their programs are really online programs with very limited campus visits.
Look closely at the University of Maryland programs -- not much campus time there either.
Good luck...
AACSB
I'm on AACSB's website as I write this letter. Northcentral is ***NOT*** listed anywhere with AACSB.
You may verify at: http://www.aacsb.edu/
Once on AACSB's website, select 'ACCREDITATION' and search from there.
Can any of the previous folks stating that NCU was accredited with AACSB explain where they got their information, or is ROR just full of a bunch of BS'ers (which is seemingly the case).
I go to Colorado Technical University as a Doctorate student. We are required, and receive, 40+ hours of fact-to-face class room time with the professor. After this period, we work with the professors remotely-- doing assignments, research, and returning results through a blackboard portal for the students. I believe fact-to-face with your professors and other students is important at the post-graduate level, but that's not to say someone else hasn't discovered a better avenue.
AACSB Certified
Bryan...it was stated 'It is true that NCU has been certified by ABCSP NOT AACSB. We want to be certified by AACSB, but that is a future state condition that Dr. Santin, and Dr. Turner are probably working on.' It was a mistake on the part of the person who commented. You should probably read more responses.
I think that residencies are an unnecessary part of any type of Master's or PhD program. The student pays exorbitant amounts of tuition for the program itself, then have to shell out airfare, hotels, food, etc., to attend a three day seminar to satisfy residency requirements. I completed my MBA online, even thought the college I completed my degree with I was teaching with (on campus). The reason most professionals take online courses is to be able to obtain a degree based on their work schedule, family commitments, etc. Having residencies in the middle of the week or on the weekend defeats those purposes, especially when you have to travel half-way across the country.
I also am thinking about applying at NCU now based on other comments from current students. I abhor cohorts, group work--anything where I end up doing the majority of the work. I do not want others piggybacking off of my grade or work product. Those who think brick and mortar schools or other types of online programs are the best, go for it. There are those of us that reside in the middle of nowhere, with no access to schools that have adequate PhD programs (I do not want to drive 160 miles a day to go to school, thank you), and have family commitments (my husband is physically disabled), online programs are a career saver.
From the other end, I have taught online--and I think it is a great teaching medium...especially for undergrads. No offense, but I am really beginning to believe that society is dumbing down the younger generation, and it saves my sanity. If they have to actually read, and not put on the 'listening ears,' then students become functionally better students in the long run.
AACSB Certified
Bryan...it was stated 'It is true that NCU has been certified by ABCSP NOT AACSB. We want to be certified by AACSB, but that is a future state condition that Dr. Santin, and Dr. Turner are probably working on.' It was a mistake on the part of the person who commented. You should probably read more responses.
I think that residencies are an unnecessary part of any type of Master's or PhD program. The student pays exorbitant amounts of tuition for the program itself, then have to shell out airfare, hotels, food, etc., to attend a three day seminar to satisfy residency requirements. I completed my MBA online, even thought the college I completed my degree with I was teaching with (on campus). The reason most professionals take online courses is to be able to obtain a degree based on their work schedule, family commitments, etc. Having residencies in the middle of the week or on the weekend defeats those purposes, especially when you have to travel half-way across the country.
I also am thinking about applying at NCU now based on other comments from current students. I abhor cohorts, group work--anything where I end up doing the majority of the work. I do not want others piggybacking off of my grade or work product. Those who think brick and mortar schools or other types of online programs are the best, go for it. There are those of us that reside in the middle of nowhere, with no access to schools that have adequate PhD programs (I do not want to drive 160 miles a day to go to school, thank you), and have family commitments (my husband is physically disabled), online programs are a career saver.
From the other end, I have taught online--and I think it is a great teaching medium...especially for undergrads. No offense, but I am really beginning to believe that society is dumbing down the younger generation, and it saves my sanity. If they have to actually read, and not put on the 'listening ears,' then students become functionally better students in the long run.
Hurry, only 3 years left to get an accredited degree from NCU.
It appears that Northcentral University will be reaccredited by the HLC. However, the renewal is only good for another 3 years. HLC seems to be putting NCU on a very short leash since renewal periods can span 3, 5, 7 or 10 years. Schools with properly run programs get 10 years. NCU got... well, NCU got 3 years.
If you are thinking about starting a program at Northcentral University, perhaps you should reconsider. A full-time master's program can be done in 2 years or less. But if you are a part-time master's or a doctoral student, the degree will likely require over 3 years. Do you want to waste time and money on a program that may or may not be accredited 3+ years from now?
The 3 year accreditation extension is a gift to all current NCU students. It could be interpreted as fair warning to the students to finish their degree before accreditation is pulled from NCU.
Submitted: 3/13/2008 12:55:00 PM
Modified: 3/13/2008 7:35:20 PMGeesilly
Torrance, CaliforniaU.S.A.
NCU runs similar to other schools
I found NCU to be no different than a community college or state college I attended. I have the same issues. There a good instructors who communicate clearly and those who do not. I have the same administration problems - people not returning calls and no follow-up but it is not different than other schools I attended. In each case you have to follow-up. I would recommend NCU for its price, its programs, its accreditation. I recognize also they are attempting to improve their services through their recent hires and financial restructuring. I don't view that their primary purpose is to make a profit but rather to provide high quality educational services. I am also so relieved there are no Learning teams, however, any student is free to contact other students either through forums or class lists.
IF YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT ACCREDITATION READ THIS POST
This is a response to Reverendricks comments above. So if you have the slightest urge to consider his points on accreditation valid, read this first.
Let me start by saying I don't refute anyone's right to post a testimonial in ROR or provide factual, verifiable infromation about an organization. Reverendrick thinks NCU sucks. He just may be right. Others obviously like it. They may be right. That is not why I find myself posting in here once again...
Reverendrick
Your dissatisfaction with NCU is apparent. I had posted earlier in response to the original authors post and the misinformation about online degree programs in general. While I am not here to discredit your personal opinion about NCU, it is obvious by your post that you are providing misinformation to those who might come across this report. Considering that misinformation such as that which you provide in your post tends to discredit online education in general, I will set the record straight on just how misinformed you appear to be about accreditation.
First, let's start with the title of your post, ONLY 3 Years Left… Let me be clear, I have not been able to read the HLC's final report on the visit as it is not yet available on the HLC site. I will take you at your word here that they indeed did get re-affirmed for 3 more years. By your words, NCU would have been RE-AFFIRMED not re-accredited. There is a difference.
It seems that you know very little about the initial PEAQ (Program to Evaluate and Advance Quality) accreditation most HLC governed institutions receive for their initial 5 year. During this time the institution prepares a SELF STUDY and through routine reporting & scheduled visits over the 5 year period, the HLC assists the institution in moving towards compliance for RE-AFFIRMATION. Let's be clear here, the HLC does not award accreditation to an institution and disappear until it's time to check-up on the college. The HLC, if you read their handbook http://www.ncahlc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=116
does not act as a POLICE unit. There is no standardized, uniform approach to compliance with a single standard or test by which an institution passes or fails. Obviously, an undergraduate liberal arts college will have different academic requirements, goals, staffing, and student body than a graduate engineering institution. It is impossible to apply a single standard to EVERY COLLEGE so the HLC does not.
I assume by your point about NCU GOT 3 YEARS you are attempting to make it seem like 3 years from now the HLC is simply going to show up again and pull accreditation. Let's be clear here, while this may serve your purpose of attacking NCU, IT'S COMPLETELY WRONG and misleads people about how accreditation works.
If what you say were true, the problem would not be with NCU, but with the HLC.
If the HLC had the intent of revoking NCU's accreditation, they would not re-affirm them. Obviously you do not understand the process here. If you are correct about NCU receiving 3 year re-affirmation then the final report by the HLC will not contain a SHOW CAUSE mandate. This is very important.
If the intent of the HLC is to pull NCU's accreditation, you will not see a 3 year extension, nor a 2 year or even a 1 year. You will see a SHOW CAUSE, most likely a probationary period and mandate to comply. However, it will not take 3 years for this to occur.
Understand that the HLC serves the interest of the student body. While you may want to make it appear that the “3 year extension†is a gift to current students, understand that the HLC is concerned with ALL STUDENTS PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE.
In all likelihood NCU will have more students in 3 years from now than they have right now. Are you actually trying to say that the HLC simply doesn't care about these future students? That is foolish. You may try and argue that 3 years is to serve notice and any student that chooses to enter NCU had fair warning. Again, completely foolish when you look at the processes, goals and mission statement of the HLC. They simply would not let NCU continue to operate with accreditation if loss of accreditation was pending.
Again, I cannot verify if you are correct on the 3 year re-affirmation. I know that neither you or I or anyone else has read the HLC report because it isn't out yet. But, if you are correct on the 3 years then the HLC report that does finally come out will not have a SHOW CAUSE. It will contain specific compliance directives that NCU must comply with. I can promise that if the challenges NCU faces warranted a 3 year extension, they will have monitoring and visits over that entire 3 year period to make sure they are moving in the right direction.
Let's think about that for a moment. Why would the HLC waste their time and effort assisting NCU with visits and directives for the next 3 year period if their intent was to revoke accreditation? More importantly, if NCU has any interest in self-preservation they will most likely do what they need to do to comply with those HLC directives. So if the HLC tells them what to do, visits them while they are doing it, and NCU does it, what grounds would the HLC have in 3 years to revoke?
By posting the comment you did, you did not attack NCU, you only successfully cast doubt in people's minds about the HLC and the accreditation process just like the author of the original post. Congratulations on missing your target and doing significant collateral damage.
I understand you feel NCU is responsible for providing sub-par education. If true then they are responsible for the dumbing down of America. The problem here is, you accomplished the same thing and you are just as responsible for making people more ignorant about the facts of accreditation.
All this to settle a vendetta? Fine, but at least stick to facts or testimony. Ignorant speculation serves no purpose and makes you look worse than the institution you hate.
Just know that there are people like me out there that know what you're trying to do and we can smell the BS miles away. You're entitled to your opinion about NCU. By all means, post as many negative comments as you would like, this is Rip-Off Report after all. But, when you move from providing testimonials to making basely assumptions to support your personal agenda ,you cross the line. You're not helping anyone.
Before you comment, read the report. If you are wrong and there's a SHOW CAUSE in the report then you can have a field day in here. It would validate any negatives you may have about NCU. But if you're right and they got 3 years, you simply look like a fool because getting 3 year re-affirmation is a long long way from losing accreditation.
To anyone reading this, it's a pretty safe bet that you should leave the accreditation to the experts at the HLC. If Reverendrick is right about the 3 year re-affirmation, just know he is totally wrong about it representing the end of NCU or any other institution that might get 3 more years. NCU would simply have to refuse to comply with any directives given by the HLC for loss to occur.
Wait till the report HLC comes out:
3 years, 5 years, 7 years, 10 years. These are all good things for an institution.
SHOW CAUSE, PROBATION. These would be bad things.
NCU and HLC, sleeping with each other or just friends?
Quote from B: By posting the comment you did, you did not attack NCU, you only successfully cast doubt in people's minds about the HLC and the accreditation process just like the author of the original post. Congratulations on missing your target and doing significant collateral damage.
B - to quote Elvis Costello, my aim is true. I am questioning not only NCU's recent accreditation result, but also the HLC's ability to provide an objective evaluation of NCU.
The president of NCU, Clinton D Gardner, currently serves as a consultant/evaluator for the HLC. Another NCU Board of Trustees member, Michael Horowitz, also serves as an HLC consultant/evaluator as well. 25% of NCU's leadership board has past, present and continuing relationships with the HLC.
This doesn't pass the sniff test, nor the duck test. What we have here is a very smelly quacker. Most likely two. 'Incestuous', although inflammatory, appears intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer.
B, I appreciate your insight into the accreditation process. Your post comes across as reasoned and knowledgable, unlike many of the shills that are seen on comment sites like this. Unfortunately, I think you're trying to show validation for a horse race whose outcome was decided long before the race was run. The addition of Gardner and Horowitz to NCU's top leadership months before the accreditation visit smacks of a desperation attempt to prevent the loss of accreditation and hence, the loss of those all-important revenues.
There's going to be some who say that no matter how they got there, NCU is still accredited. I've been asked to shut up and not spoil it for others. Spoil what? A sub-standard education from a university that had the right idea in 2002, but is now favoring profits over instructor quality? Lately, it seems that NCU is thinking who needs to supply good research & dissertation mentors when the industry shows that 50 to 70% of the students will self-terminate their programs anyway. For every student that just completed the prerequisite class work, there's a dozen that will start. The big money today for NCU is in the classes leading up to the research phase, not afterward.
NCU has become a very bad example of the right idea gone horribly wrong. Back in 2003 as NCU became accredited, the focus was on the student's success. From my direct experience, instructors were responsive to any questions and supplied good constructive feedback. As the years passed, the instructors have become more distant and detached from the mentor-student relationship. Is NCU's focus on revenues and profit having a direct and negative impact on the quality of the instructors?
During my last class at NCU, I was assigned a 67yr old retired surgeon living in Georgia. I'm still at a loss to understand why NCU assigned that individual as a research mentor to a Computer Science/Business Admin major. He had no perceived interest, nor constructive criticism for my presented dissertation topics as judged by his dismissive responses to my emails. During the course, he initiated contact only once via email. Once - during a 16 week course. NCU appears to condone this mentor's behavior by academically dismissing me instead of just correcting the issue by assigning a new engaged mentor and resetting the course clock back to the start.
If you can find them, look at the Learner's guides from 2002 to current. You'll see a gradual shift in NCU policy from being student centric to being punitive towards the student. Somewhere in 2007, we as students were reclassified as little more than revenue generation units. Any pushback from the student on issues of academic quality is met with dismissal, as was my situation.
Too bad NCU couldn't go back to the way they were just prior and just after accreditation. 100% distance education was and is a great idea. NCU was doing it right back in 2003. It's a shame that NCU is now ruining it, by it's poor example, for the rest of the universities that want to pursue 100% distance education programs.
PHD level coursework and research are not for everyone!
I accept the gentleman's right to post his comments but suggest that Phd level coursework and research are not for everyone. If the University if regionally accredited by the HLC which conforms to the US department of Education's standards((assuming that the US government's education department is not sleeping or is populated by plain dumb idiots!) and has a business accreditation from ACBSP, they must be doing something right.
Instead of griping about a lost chance, it might behoove certain people to focus their energies and educational efforts towards a less demanding degree or program. Not everyone is cut for higher level research after all and might have talents which can be better utilized somewhere else. Just my two cents.
Cheers!
Submitted: 7/15/2008 5:49:52 PM
Modified: 7/15/2008 9:18:44 PMPartypooper
New Orleans, LouisianaU.S.A.
Get a PhD from NCU and improve your research skills
What a load of nonsense. I thought only sewing clubs gossiped like this! NCU is an accredited institution with high academic standards. Is there some form of institutional sabbotage going on here? By the way, NCU is in Prescott Valley...you could have at least got that right.
Phd entrance requirements too high!
For a University which has a motto of providing online education accessible to everyone, NCU has an unrealistic high bar for entrance to its Phd programs. I realize that they have to maintain standards and accreditation but they must realize that there are people who have a family and a job who are trying to fulfill a dream and work towards the same.
Suggesting insufficient qualifications and possible entry to the bachelors/masters program is ok but other Universities might offer bridging courses which might eventually lead to an entrance to the program which the University does not seem to offer to my knowledge. Also, burdening a prospective candidate with so many pre-requisite courses that it is effectively doing 2-3 degrees in one degree also does not seem fair.
Will anybody from NCU please take notice?
Thanks.......(Angry and sulking in Austin)
Don't agree with negative Northcentral University assessment
I find this report to be totally inaccurate. I am an online graduate student in Psychology at Northcentral University in Prescott Valley, AZ, and I am a former online graduate student at Texas A&M University -- Commerce. I have found the online program at NCU to be of at least equal, if not better, caliber to TAMU -- Commerce, and TAMU -- Commerce has an EXCELLENT online program.
I have done nothing by correspondence at NCU, and the program has been totally online with many, many resources and much interaction and feedback. Academic and moral standards are extremely high, and cheating, lying and/or plagiarism is not tolerated. Instructors are highly qualified professionals with both professional and academic credentials that would qualify them to instruct at any accredited public university.
I would suggest that prospective students review the university for themselves prior to making a decision. I highly recommend NCU for anyone looking for an excellent and accredited online university. On a scale of 1 to 10, NCU merits a 10! --Robin
Reality of Online Education!!
I have attained my Masters in Psychology at a State College in Kentucky and I also instruct online as well as in classroom at a Community College in Kentucky. The reality of online education is that you have to be self motivated. As an online instructor, I have students actually read the text and do assignments. If they do not do these things I will fail them.
Northcentral University offers fully accredited degrees that are of very good quality.I have taken courses at NCU and at regular colleges and I will tell you that I have gotten more out of the courses at NCU than at a regular college. I actually read the material and synthesize it into papers that satisfy the requirements, not copy and rip off of the internet. I go after what I am seeking and not what I can get away with. If you are a PHD learner and you voluteer information about plagerism or have a GPA below 3.9, then you flat out are not motivated and are what I would consider a disgruntled learner that will not succeed in any environment.
In online courses that I teach at a state college, the student has to be motivated or they will receive less than satisfatory grades. In the online education world you cannot have a baby sitter. I have had better interaction with my mentors at NCU than I have had at regular colleges that I have attended.
There are very poor instructors at regular colleges as well as online. I have had a poor mentor at NCU and I recognized it immeadiately and got rid of them. If you are mature enough to realize this then you will do fine. The reality is that 99.9% of our failures are self inflicted and we do not want to own up to this as a failure of our own making. Students want to blame the instructor or the institution for their short comings. We always know it is someone else's fault, not ours when we fall short of the mark.
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