ABT Electronics - Kitchenaid mistreated and ripped off Morton Grove Illinois

lois of park ridge,

i understand you predicment. new kitchen new dishwaher and limited funds.

ive delt with abt eletronics before, they are a good company. but all companies claim to have the "best of the best". i doubt such claims.

i would write back/contact kitchen aid and explain that your situation in its entireity, and it has not been resolved. the damage caused to your new flooring was caused by faulty installation of a second d/w per the kitcheaid report. (keep your orginal report and send copies)explain that abt eletronics flawed installation caused further damage that need to be compensated fully, not 50%. my orginal d/w did not flood. the first new abt eletronics was faulty but did not flood. the second abt eletronics installed d/w flooded my home. just focus on that. if you homeowners policy covered the damage, alert your agent of the situation and try tp recruit him and his resources to help you.

suggestion: next time, use qualified workers to do work that you cannot do. use the abt eletronics and best buy delivery workers as hired muscles. example: if you cant (or worry too much about) installing and connecting a d/w hire/consult a qualified plumber. he would of informed you of clogged pipes, the d/w too big for your pipes etc. but most of all watch the installation and speak up if you feel something is not right.

Sorry...I accidentally hit the wrong key before finishing my response. I presume that you did not receive the first several paragraphs of my response, so I will repeat that which I can remember writing in this response.

My wife and I have been buying appliances and TVs for over 30 years from Abt. Over the years, we have purchased 2 washers, 2 dryers, 2 refrigerators, 2 KitchenAid dishwashers, 4 televisions and 2 stereos. Abt has provided competent service and has even given us an unexpected discount on an order that became messed up. They did not need to do that, but told us that it was their mistake and they wanted to make it right.

We live about 35 miles from the Abt store in Glenview, yet we make the drive because they have always treated us very well. Abt's prices have always been the most competitive, their selection of products cannot be found in the other big discount stores and their sales and service staff seem extremely competent. The last time we were in the store, a salesman who was about 40 years old told us about when he was a child he remembered fondly going with his father to shop at Abt. He told us how proud he was to tell his father that he was working for Abt. I have never heard a statement like that from any other retail sales person whom I have encountered. His statement demonstrated to me a uncommon pride.

Perhaps this woman should also pursue Pergo for some financial help. I have a relative whose Pergo floor was ruined by a leaking in their kitchen plumbing. For the floor to become damaged so easily, especially when installed in a kitchen where there is almost always water being used tells me that Pergo should be blamed for manufacturing a poor product that is prone to becoming warped while in normal use. I know that after seeing the warped Pergo floor in my relative's kitchen, I decided that Pergo or any other laminated floor will never be in my house. If you were to spill a pan of water while making dinner, the Pergo floor is ruined.

In sum, I commend Abt for offering to pay half of the repair. Until someone can prove that Abt's installers made a mistake, that seems to be a good offer that she should accept. Other retailers probably would not have been so generous.

Sorry...I accidentally hit the wrong key before finishing my response. I presume that you did not receive the first several paragraphs of my response, so I will repeat that which I can remember writing in this response.

My wife and I have been buying appliances and TVs for over 30 years from Abt. Over the years, we have purchased 2 washers, 2 dryers, 2 refrigerators, 2 KitchenAid dishwashers, 4 televisions and 2 stereos. Abt has provided competent service and has even given us an unexpected discount on an order that became messed up. They did not need to do that, but told us that it was their mistake and they wanted to make it right.

We live about 35 miles from the Abt store in Glenview, yet we make the drive because they have always treated us very well. Abt's prices have always been the most competitive, their selection of products cannot be found in the other big discount stores and their sales and service staff seem extremely competent. The last time we were in the store, a salesman who was about 40 years old told us about when he was a child he remembered fondly going with his father to shop at Abt. He told us how proud he was to tell his father that he was working for Abt. I have never heard a statement like that from any other retail sales person whom I have encountered. His statement demonstrated to me a uncommon pride.

Perhaps this woman should also pursue Pergo for some financial help. I have a relative whose Pergo floor was ruined by a leaking in their kitchen plumbing. For the floor to become damaged so easily, especially when installed in a kitchen where there is almost always water being used tells me that Pergo should be blamed for manufacturing a poor product that is prone to becoming warped while in normal use. I know that after seeing the warped Pergo floor in my relative's kitchen, I decided that Pergo or any other laminated floor will never be in my house. If you were to spill a pan of water while making dinner, the Pergo floor is ruined.

In sum, I commend Abt for offering to pay half of the repair. Until someone can prove that Abt's installers made a mistake, that seems to be a good offer that she should accept. Other retailers probably would not have been so generous.

Sorry...I accidentally hit the wrong key before finishing my response. I presume that you did not receive the first several paragraphs of my response, so I will repeat that which I can remember writing in this response.

My wife and I have been buying appliances and TVs for over 30 years from Abt. Over the years, we have purchased 2 washers, 2 dryers, 2 refrigerators, 2 KitchenAid dishwashers, 4 televisions and 2 stereos. Abt has provided competent service and has even given us an unexpected discount on an order that became messed up. They did not need to do that, but told us that it was their mistake and they wanted to make it right.

We live about 35 miles from the Abt store in Glenview, yet we make the drive because they have always treated us very well. Abt's prices have always been the most competitive, their selection of products cannot be found in the other big discount stores and their sales and service staff seem extremely competent. The last time we were in the store, a salesman who was about 40 years old told us about when he was a child he remembered fondly going with his father to shop at Abt. He told us how proud he was to tell his father that he was working for Abt. I have never heard a statement like that from any other retail sales person whom I have encountered. His statement demonstrated to me a uncommon pride.

Perhaps this woman should also pursue Pergo for some financial help. I have a relative whose Pergo floor was ruined by a leaking in their kitchen plumbing. For the floor to become damaged so easily, especially when installed in a kitchen where there is almost always water being used tells me that Pergo should be blamed for manufacturing a poor product that is prone to becoming warped while in normal use. I know that after seeing the warped Pergo floor in my relative's kitchen, I decided that Pergo or any other laminated floor will never be in my house. If you were to spill a pan of water while making dinner, the Pergo floor is ruined.

In sum, I commend Abt for offering to pay half of the repair. Until someone can prove that Abt's installers made a mistake, that seems to be a good offer that she should accept. Other retailers probably would not have been so generous.

I myself own an Appliance Company and I feel for ABT Electronic. I remember years ago when a Customer was your best friend not your enemy. Today its about the mighty dollar. After reading this article about the leaking dishwasher and not hearing ABT side of the story I have take my years of experience and come up with this conclusion. This customer probably has been very unreasonable most likely from the start. Appliance today comes with a factory warranty for things like this and Abt didn't have to replace the dishwasher for her, but I'm sure that she put up such a stink that he just did it to keep her quite. Ill even bet that she gave ABT a hard time over the purchase price and the installation of the machine in the first place. Appliances today are not built like they use to be and you can't compare your old Kitchen Aid (apples) to this new one (orange's). I have no answers to why the floor got wet and I'm not even going to guess but I'm sure if it were Abt fault they would have stood behind and rectified the problem. She mentions that she's 74 years old and live on a limited budget but yet she still able to re-model her kitchen and buy appliances for her sons and daughters so to me she not hurting as she make us to believe. Don't get me wrong I don't stand for companies that rip consumers off but I truly don't think that's the case here. My suggestion to this person is to learn to lighten up a little. Remember that you're not the only one with a problem and the world doesn't circle around you. I understand when people get older and things like this happens that it disrupts their everyday routine and life stops, as they know it. Remember, if you treat people with respect then you get respect back 10 folds.

I disagree with Lois in regards to the way she said she was treated. The fact is my company bent over backward to resolve her "leaky" dishwasher. Once the issue was resolved and after numerous conversations with both Lois and a contact of mine at Kitchen Aid I decided that the fair thing to do would be to split the cost of repairing the floor with her. It was clearly explained to me by the 3 service technicians I sent to her house that the leak was most likely caused by the customers misuse of both the dishwasher and the drain it is hooked up to.

Rather than pointing fingers I offered to cover 1/2 of the repair to keep our customer satisfied. The offer to help the damage was not an admission of any wrongdoing, but rather a gesture of goodwill. Prior to reading her report I truly thought she was happy with my offer.

We have been in business for 67 years and pride ourselves on treating our customers fairly. I am available six days a week, 12 hours a day if Lois would like to discuss this further.

Sincerely,

Abt Electronics

I have used nothing but Kitchenaid in over 30 years. I am now getting ready to purchase a new one for a customer.

Older Kitchenaid models had a drain valve in the dirty water drain line that opened ONLY when the machine was in the empty portion of a cycle.

Unfortunately Kitchenaid is no longer owned and operated by Hobart of Dayton Ohio, but rather the Whirlpool corporation, so several changes have taken place over the years that removed some of these "extra" more industrial features.

That being said, the drain valve no longer exists. Any installer, assuming he/she is literate, can read in the manufacturer's instructions to either install a hose "loop", elevate the drain hose inside the cabinet to insure it is higher than the sink drains, or, preferably, install a device known as an "air gap" in the drain line to prevent any water in the sink or disposer from entering the machine's wash tub area.

It is quite conceivable that water from the sink, probably the disposal, is getting to the DW tub. Fresh water can enter the drain hose every time the water is run in the diposal side of the sink, especially if the installer did not install the proper baffle (usually supplied in every disposal)to help prevent this.

And YES, after the tub gets so full, water WILL overflow the normal seal area, and exit the DW, usually appearing to be coming from underneath the unit. The water acually exits the machine between the front door and the front of the tub area, above the lower door seal area.

This customer should be armed with the manufaturer's installation instructions and approach the retailer to get the installation corrected. If these instructions are not available, the manufacturer should be more than happy to furnish a set, considering the complaint and the manufacturer's assessment of the installation.

One more thing, IF the manufacturer inspected the installation, and deemed it an improper installation, then the customer service division should have a vested interest in seeing to it that the problem is resolved.

A letter of disappointment, or even a suggestion that the customer will report this incident to the state consumer protection ageny, should get some intervention started between the manufacturer and the retailer.

After all, no manufacturer wants unhappy customers, especially when its retailer is not following manufacturer's installation instructions.

Lastly, the INSTALLER should be liable for any damages incurred to a customer's property, especially when the manufacturer of that product has deemed the installation to be not in accordance with instructions provided by the manufacturer. Local plumbing and building codes should also address the use of proper installation methods. These facts should allow a competent attorney the ability to recover damages to both the residence and any associated equipment.

But ... attorneys cost money, probably more than the customer can afford, and you can bet the local retailer is counting on this.

I believe that a dishwasher will only hold so much water in the bottom of it before it WILL overflow. That's been my experience anyway.

The only time I have ever experienced (in my own home) water leaking out from the dishwasher is when the garbage disposal (the dishwasher drain line is connected to the garbage disposal) fills up with too much water and the water backflows into the dishwasher.

If the water gets high enough in the bottom of the dishwasher then it will overflow, appearing to leak from the bottom of the floor. Perhaps the problem is with filling up the sink that the garbage disposal if attached to with so much water, and the sink drain being slightly clogged, that water does backup into the dishwasher.

At any rate, the drain line from the dishwasher should be looped high enough to keep this from happening or else a back flow preventer of some sort should be installed.

My mom also has a new d/w and never uses it. When I had asked her why she wasn't using it she said she doesn't have that many dishes and it's a waste of water.

The first Holiday came and we had dinner at her house. Later I loaded the d/w and it wouldn't work. I couldn't figure out why it wouldnt't work and removed the dishes and hand washed them. We have a friend who does plumbing and heating called him and he came over.

To our surpise, according to him, the reason it wasn't working was becasue she wasn't USING IT ENOUGH. This caused some water in the bottom of the d/w and the fan (that thing that turns around at the top) not to work. Maybe that could be the reason water build up was in the pipes (hose)not to flow correctly. I'm not sure but you did say that it was a month later when you did use this new appliance.

I'm not on anyone's side but the one who installed the d/w would have checked the plumbing prior to see if it worked properly. And I'm sure they did. I find no fault with Abt. My Mom still doesn't use her d/w either.

Thank you,

I have owned a TV Repair Shop for about seven years and refer all my customers, including my family to ABT Electronics (they have sinced moved to Glenview, Illinois).

I have only heard of one person that said anything
bad about this company. I realize that the floor
was damaged and the installers were probably at fault.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that ABT hires
only the best of the best. Maybe they were'nt
familar with this unit and they "goofed".

My suggestion would be to go on-line and look up
the "appliance organizations" they assist in disputes.

These organizations have strict membership rules
and accept only the best companies.

I agree with you that you should'nt pay even half of the repair to your floor or contact your insurance company.
You could see what your insurance company says in
a situation like yours. Beleiev me they will give the straight answers.

Did you get the "extended warranty" when you bought the unit? Usually they will replace the unit for a new or just give you a credit for another dishwasher altogether.

It appears your not getting anywhere with the owner so I would suggest a "third party" such as the appliance organizations.

It's too bad this happen to you and will leave a sour taste in your month for a long time. I can only tell you of my experiences with this company and what customers tell me that ABT is OK in my book.

Hope this helps,

I'm a little confused about your report. It would be helpful to have the model number and then I could see what pump unit this d/w has. If the water was flowing back into your d/w because the drain hose was not high enough the water should have been dirty or soapy from your sink.

A technician would have installed a check valve in the drain hose to prevent this from happening again. Further confusion is how did the water get from the d/w to the floor.

You do not say that it was coming out the front, so it must have been coming out underneath, suggesting a leak in the drain hose or crack in the pump, or a leak from somewhere else in the sink's plumbing. Since you say there was water in the unit, the d/w was holding the water in. Your old d/w was there for over 40 years and was probably a KitchenAid maybe model 50 or kds 15 or 16 that had a floor drain.

You say you had a new floor and d/w installed but did you have any new cabinets installed or sink installed? This new d/w drains differently than your old one and would require newer piping under your sink to tie the new drain hose in.

The confusing part is how can the d/w have water in it and at the same time be leaking on the floor. I suspect that there may be more to this story than you had time to type in.

ABT is a wonderful family owned operation going on the third generation. Bob Abt and his late father Dave were totally consumer orientated. That is how they built the country's largest grossing single appliance store.

Full disclosure, I had an appliance store and service business that competed with ABT, Plass, Fretters, Silo, Highland, & the mass merchandisers. North Shore Homeowners preferred their pricing to mine and the type of service you were seeking was what we had offered.

Every installation to manufacturers specifications or we did not install the product. We spent time straightening out other companies installations at times, but I don't recall ABT not standing behind theirs. You should call in independent company like ABS Appliance Repair to come out and evaluate your situation. The owner Manny is a very experienced technician and has installed many appliances.

In short I would look to find out how a d/w full of water could leak water on the floor. And never leave your home when your appliances are running.