• Report: #3443
Complaint Review:

AMWAY

  • Submitted: Thu, September 28, 2000
  • Updated: Mon, March 28, 2011

  • Reported By:Tempe Arizona
AMWAY
Nationwide U.S.A.

AMWAY OR SCAMWAY

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I love your thread

*General Comment: Wolves feeding on wolves

*Consumer Comment: I'm sorry, did you say that this was a BUSINESS????

*UPDATE Employee: University and Amway and Quixtar

*Consumer Comment: This is funny

*Consumer Suggestion: An answer for Juliet

*Consumer Comment: Why You Can't Be "A Customer" Only

*UPDATE Employee: You CAN be a customer without being an IBO

*Consumer Comment: Why does no one ever answer why I can't be an MLM customer?

*Consumer Comment: Why can't I ever be a customer?

*Consumer Comment: My Memories of Amway

*UPDATE Employee: AMWAY a Scam?

*Consumer Comment: NPR News: 4 AMWAY Distributors loose $19 MIL Lawsuit to P&G

*Consumer Comment: NPR News: 4 AMWAY Distributors loose $19 MIL Lawsuit to P&G

*Consumer Comment: NPR News: 4 AMWAY Distributors loose $19 MIL Lawsuit to P&G

*Consumer Comment: NPR News: 4 AMWAY Distributors loose $19 MIL Lawsuit to P&G

*UPDATE Employee: soon to be former IBO...

*Consumer Suggestion: A Self Centered and Fraudulent Ethic

*Consumer Comment: RE: Sean

*Consumer Comment: RE: Sean

*Consumer Comment: RE: Sean

*Consumer Comment: RE: Wanda

*Consumer Comment: RE: Jackye

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I am an ex worldwide member

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: So many of you are right...

*Consumer Comment: Correct, Rita

*Consumer Suggestion: Target selling concentrated cleaners

*Consumer Comment: The Illusory Tax Benefits

*Consumer Comment: Products Way Overpriced

*Consumer Comment: Products Way Overpriced

*Consumer Comment: Products Way Overpriced

*Consumer Comment: The numbers speak for themselves!

*UPDATE Employee: Taking things with a grain of salt...

*Consumer Comment: MLM is a flawed Model (UNLESS YOU START IT UP YOURSELF)

*Consumer Comment: I returned the materials I borrowed and told him that we are not interested at this point and we are not yet ready to handle such responsibility.

*Consumer Comment: Almost scammed

*Consumer Comment: Stop Blaming & think...

*Consumer Comment: Amway has morphed into another name called Quixtar, which is essentially the same scam as Amway

*Consumer Comment: Amway opportunity no longer available in the US and Canada?

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Quixtar didn't help us achieve our dreams, We/Ourselves achieve our dreams

*Consumer Comment: not fooling myself and others in a scam based setup.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I really think the most responsible thing is to warn others

*Consumer Comment: so much evidence that AMWAY is not the way

*Consumer Comment: so much evidence that AMWAY is not the way

*Consumer Comment: so much evidence that AMWAY is not the way

*Consumer Comment: so much evidence that AMWAY is not the way

*Consumer Comment: What I do. there is never a need to buy tapes/books on how to sell

*Consumer Comment: Mike from Fairfax, you try to kill the dream in everyones else's heart

*Consumer Comment: Go would never speak about amway/quixtar

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Even the Devil can Quote the Bible...

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: you haven't been exposed to Quixtar long enough to see through the brainwashing.

*Consumer Comment: Amyway or Scamway Response vs. Quixtar

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: You are seriously misguided, Sean

*Consumer Comment: Education on Quixtar

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Who are these people that think that you will build a business without any education.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Quixtar defenders are either lying or ignorant

*Consumer Comment: Anyone who says the products were good quality is outright lieing.

*Consumer Comment: MLM works and works well. Besides that, Amway does have some of the best products

*UPDATE Employee: Pyramid Schemes are illegal

*UPDATE Employee: the people that loose money in this business are not telling the truth

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: BOTTOM LINE!! ..You have to keep motivated

*UPDATE Employee: Who is searching for answers

*Consumer Comment: Not all business models are the same

*Consumer Comment: Not all business models are the same

*Consumer Suggestion: could this be a real business deal?

*Consumer Comment: people are very willing to work hard if they see the opportunity

*UPDATE Employee: people signed up with quixtar can make money

*UPDATE Employee: people signed up with quixtar can make money

*UPDATE Employee: people signed up with quixtar can make money

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Amway/Quixtar

*0:

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AMWAY OR SCAMWAY

You decide....

I am not a winner, nor a loser, just your average intelligent college student who joined AMWAY. I joined a year ago after a friend of one of my roommates showed me the plan. I have seen the business inside and out. Now I want to make it clear to all those considering joining amway.

Why AMWAY works....

Amway works because every individual who joins, learns the art of social engineering. "Social Engineering" is the term a that a famous computer hacker named CitiZen-0ne coined. Social Engineering is the Art of Influence, Manipulation and lying. In other words it is the Mastery of bullshitting others into thinking or believing any thing they want you to believe.

Every single successful distributor who has "plugged into the system" has learned this art. They KNOW every single question question you are going to ask before you ask it, and they know how to answer it in a Myriad of different ways. They know how to answer your questions and what to tell you, to convince you into believing them. They even sell tapes and other various information through the company so that you can learn all these skills. I challenge you to go talk to someone who is fairly successful in the business. Let them show you the plan and then ask them questions and if your sharp you will catch all the mind games, the well rehearsed answers to common questions and the sneaky escapes they perfectly execute in tight situations. AMWAY is the college of "Social Engineering". They will try to convince you and get you excited. Once they get you excited and convinced you end up joining and becoming a student at the college of AMWAY studying "Social Engineering" and if you master this Major at U. OF AMway you can make a relatively decent salary. IF you get a PhD in Deception, you will get a diamond pin to wear on your colar or lapel. GO DIAMOND, BREAK 7!!!

Events are thrown as often as every week, the purpose of these cult events is to get you HIGH. The speakers at these events are usually high ranking individuals who speak so "Elequently" or even so "Down to Earth". They play on your dreams and hopes of success in the world. They get your blood and heart pumping with all kinds of chants and other audience participation things. They make the business seem so easy. They get people from the audience who have gone to certain levels walk across the stage so you can see how many people actually move up in the business. They tell you all kinds of inspiring statistics so that you get "FIRED UP", "IM FIRED UP, HOW 'BOUT YOU?". They will tell you how many billions of dollars amway did and any other things that have worked in scamming people in to the business. They tell you about there good times in life and there bad times, so that you can relate to them emotionally. Because all of us have been through good and bad times in life, DONT YOU JUST FEEL THE UNITY! (By the way all things in Capital letters are things actually chanted or spoken with religious conviction at these events).

All the chanting and inspiration from hese "successful" individuals in amway makes you a believer and soon you find these meetings or big events are your only escape from a business smart society where the majority of common people can see through the false illusions of Amway. These meetings or events become addictive, they become your safe haven, the place where you can feel unity with all the other foot soldiers of failure and even success. Soon you become friends with these other individuals and you slowly begin to see amway consume your life. Amway promises freedom, but in truth you get trapped in a business that you might end up peddling for the rest of your life. They Speak of Freedom to do as you want and when you want. Common Catch phrases "They speak of being free and roaming the beaches of the world." Actually you are getting trapped in a business that you will have to peddle forever.

What is Amway?

Amway is a MLM business with Very expensive "QUALITY" products involved.

You see all you have to do is spend 200$ a month on AMway products and then get a whole bunch of other people to do the same thing. These people you find then have to go find other people to do the same thing. Eventually you get a big downline spending lots and lots of money on expensive products. It's THAT EASY!

Reality Check...

Amway claims that when you join, you get to buy all these products at whole sale!!!! This is one of the biggest deceptions in the world. What they do is say the retail price for a bottle of there shampoo is like 5-10$ and then subtract like 10-30% of that and call it wholesale, or the price you but it at. Then you pay all kinds of taxes, shipping fees and other little bullshit little fees that they throw in there. So actually you end up paying there "Retail Price". And there retail price is the same or much much higher than your average quality product from any store. YOU are not getting any of their crap for wholesale, you are getting it for a very expensive bs price! So when you point this out to Amway distributors they say (Social Engineering) well the products are The highest quality and there all concentrated. The truth is only some of there products are concentrated, and Quality is AN OPINION! The truth is that there are thousands of products out there in the world, some are good some are bad, you have to shop around and try which one works for you, remember every human is different and each body works with different things differently. So Quality is an Opinion! Actually some of Amways products are quality but they are very few in number. Xenith says... HIGH PRICES and RARE QUALITY... THATS THE AMWAY REALITY.

A diamond once told me... It takes about a 1000 people in your downline to be about a diamond! Of course theoretically you can have 7 people in your downline all spending 100K a month each on their basic necessities of toilet paper and soap for themselves, but this isnt likely, actually after looking at how expensive and small some of these products are it is quite possible.

Take out your calculators boys and girls...

Amway has 2million people in there business, 1million are active, there are 900 diamonds in all of Amway actually its like 890 or something, but hey whos counting... anyway divide 900 by 1 million... what do you get boys and girls? about a thousand!! WOW that diamond was actually right, and he never even did the math himself. maybe numbers and truth dont LIE after all! I could quote a whole slew of other disappointing stats for you folks, but thats for you to go look up yourselves.

Dont be fooled by these distributors who can skew your way of thinking. look at the probabilities and statistics behind this business, then go look at the expensive and very miniscule products. The products are so small but for some reason very very expensive... Hmmm... check it out folks.. even join if you have to... thats how I became so wise...

Amway saturates because most people will never join and half of the ones who do join become wise like me and either quit or master the art of deception and become successful.

If you master deception you will succeed in amway after years and years of recruiting people.

If you have morals you will probably quit.

So you say O' wise Xenith, why havent you quit? and I say .. cause maybe I might just write a book and I need to see every nook and cranny of this business before I do.. who knows I might even go diamond.

Interesting article you posted, can you talk more about how the tools for the business are a big part of the amway scam?

thanx ............. dina,

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 09/28/2000 12:00 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/amway/nationwide/amway-or-scamway-3443. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I love your thread

AUTHOR: Tim - (USA)

Thanks for doing the math.  I am glad someone did.  It's a little tough to sell this business to a mathematician.  The guy running the presentation will write all kinds of circles on the white board but a mathematician can certainly make a graph that can show you why it won't work.  Who do you trust?

There was a stop point for sometime within the company that I was in but it looks like if you are a diamond or a diamond leg you are considered an owner of the "professional development program."  It should be noted by internet research that within the ten years that Quixtar has been operational, no one has been added as diamond that hasn't been a part of the former Amway business plan of the 1970s.  Those records are there for everyone to see on the internet.

I do know of a distributor of Amway during the beginning who did very well.  I do like the products but these motivational meetings have become a bit of a farce only making diamonds richer off of conferences, books, and media sales.  There have been many who say this is the real money maker rather than the products that you are buying.  Some development programs have gone over the edge than others and when it happens, plenty can complain and the media does run with it.

The reality is, it really isn't your business when you look at the contract.  If you pass away, your kids don't inherit it.
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#2 General Comment

Wolves feeding on wolves

AUTHOR: SierraPolaris - (United States of America)

Someone mentioned that their boyfriend left them when they joined Amway.  This is what happened to me:

My boyfriend went down to a "conference" in the south for a weekend with some local Amway friends of his (he was already an employee at the time).  Well, I didn't hear from him the entire weekend; not even a "hey."  I became suspicious.

Later, I became worried and checked his Facebook and found out he met and hooked up with another Amway employee from our state that he didn't know.  He never told me about it until I made at least 15 attempts asking him about it. 

All he could say was he "fell in love with this girl".  And now they post back and forth on each others pages about how they're going to be "diamonds".

As far as I'm concerned, they deserve each other then.  I'm not getting involved in this Amway crap ever. You can't sucker me into any ribbon package bologna or their overpriced household items.

What made me laugh out of all of this? His mom e-mailed me and told me his brother thought it was a "cult".  Awesome, bro!
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#3 Consumer Comment

I'm sorry, did you say that this was a BUSINESS????

AUTHOR: Newfenoix - (U.S.A.)

It is a SCAM. I don't care WHAT you call it. I was approached by a FORMER friend about Quixstar. I went to the meeting and the "IBO" made his pitch. One of the things that the said repeatedly was that "it was not Amway." What a lie!!!! It was started by Amway and is basically the same thing as Amway. And I got that information from the official website.

As a licensed private investigator in two states, I can be called an "independent business owner." Amway folks are not business owners. Oh, btw, most states lump MLMs and Pyramid schemes together. The only difference is that MLMs can be legit at times.
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#4 UPDATE Employee

University and Amway and Quixtar

AUTHOR: Wonderland27 - (Canada)

Its true that Amway did have a horrible history but I can't think of one company that hasn't had one. I dare you to name one company over 50 years that hasn't had a handful of unsatisfied customers even the church has lost members who became atheist. First of its bs that Amway or quixtar sells cds and books I have never bought one actually the up line is so huge that not even my upline has bought anything training materials they just loan them to us.

Secoundly quixtar sells products that we buy at the store and if your not satisfied with them then go back to walmart to shop no-one is forcing you for example I only eat the vitamins because i don't believe in the drinks and 80% of the non organic bars they sell because I like to stick to an organic sucralose (splenda and artificial sweetners) out of my diet. Secoundly I'm not required to make a minimum purchase, next most people do make money from sales or recuiting this is where the problem comes in people do not put enough time and energy into themselves and with lack of confidence belief and results they give up. And lets face it most of us are lazy and we got into mlm because we are or were lazy but after taking my first 2 years of university i realized that half the stuff I learned was already in the training I received at quixtar not only that but quixtar has set up online classes and free meetings to help people learn to sell the product.

As for recuiting prople its like the gospel your either gonna run with it and stir up the inner flame or your gonna just sit there remember "the secret" says what we focus on the most we will get what do you focus on failure bills debt and sinful bondage then your going to get and continue to be raped up in failure bills debt and sinful bondage. WAKE UP and focus on success and freedom but don't just think it don't just feel it don't just imagine it action is always required. If quixtar isn't right for you get in something that is there are alot of lazy uneducated people who thought of quixtar as an easy road and when it got rough blamed the company I was one of those people. If you want your dreams to come true push through for yourself.

In university you pay anywhere from 20k-100k for the education and what do you gotta due you push through you push through and what do you end up with a piece of paper. No experience to get a job and knowledge of how to make money they just taught you how to get a job and many you need to get one soon because the government is gonna be on your tail for osap soon. At least thats my expeience going to work trading time for money wishing that I could be doinfg something fun taking more vactions hang out with family and friend but no I gotta work for the bills and the debts need to be paid. Quixtar has enabled me to regain self confidence and I sell product that I use and believe in they can force me to do anything its my life I've never been to these huge conferences because I don't have the money, time and quite frankly I will not dishonor the sabbath day.

So thats how quixtar has helped me its like avon only bigger I sell make a good 100-200 dollars a month and I get some good education -free education to be exact. I've stopped working overtime because of quixtar its not worth it the government just takes all the extra money out your paycheck anyways. Who knows someday I might have a down line someday really I don't care all I know is I'm making extra cash and I'm gonna try to be more productive so I can have more money come in. Finally remember its your decision but if your lazy and think everything is a scam get a job and keep it and let those with a dream, live it. I no longer put down people but I put in word of inspiration and I no longer blame people for my problems just because I'm fat doesn't mean I should blame mcdonalds when i can easily stop going there make healthier choices and start to exercise.

Thanks for reading,

Okeeno
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#5 Consumer Comment

This is funny

AUTHOR: Dani - (U.S.A.)

This is great. I have never been part of Quixtar, but I have dated a lot of men that get into after we start dating.....and then the dating ends. I can not stand this company. I have seen it ruin way to mayn lives to make it even remotely close to a part of mine. I have never been an IBO nor a customer but I somehow know that plan like the back of my hand. I especially get a kick out of how they use McDonald's and Hamburger University as their example to owning a franchise.
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#6 Consumer Suggestion

An answer for Juliet

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

Juliet, you poised an AMAZINGLY simple question, with an AMAZINGLY simple answer. And look how, two months later, none of the IBOs seem to be able to answer your question?

I will thus do it for them.

The reason that you cannot be a "customer" without being hassled to be an "IBO" is simple.

Think about this. A local supermarket has been operating in your town for years. It's a convenient place to shop, you know your way around, you know that you'll find everything you need, you know that you'll be able to compare products and prices, and you know that whatever you buy will be fairly priced.

Now, a new supermarket opens their doors. They claim that their method of shopping is easier and cheaper. But you go there one time and discover that the ketchup is over by the taco shells, the exercise equipment is over by the electronics, the makeup is over by the cake mixes, and so on. Beyond that, they only have ONE brand of each thing that you are interested in buying. What's worse: virtually every product is far more expensive than what you were paying before. Whats EVEN WORSE, you now have to wait a few days to receive your products - and you have to pay to have them shipped to your house!

So what's the icentive in shopping at the new store? Answer: there isn't one! Everything at your local wal-mart, or what have you, was convenient and price-competitive, and now there's this new store, that you go to one time, and will never go back!

The bottom line: a consumer with any ounce of savvy will NEVER, EVER, place their shopping needs in an outfit that is COMPLETELY uncomeptitive, on many different levels, with the local familiar store.

With that in mind, think about this: how does the IBO who suckered you into becoming a Quixtar customer make a steady income off of you if, after the first order, you realize that you would be much better off shopping at your local, brick and mortar stores?

The only way for the IBO to make any continuous income from your purchases is to CON you into the "plan." Once you are suckered into the plan, you will forego your former consumer savvy and look to each purchase as a business event. Not to get into the complexities of it, but Quixtar makes very, VERY little money outside of the purchases made by IBOs who have been suckered into an anti-competititve way of shopping.

I hope that answers your question. If not, think about this: how many IBOs have you known through the years, and how many non-IBOs have you known that make regular purchases from Quixtar? The end game is that, if you are not an IBO, than you are probably not purchasing products through Quixtar. So their answer, to make you a Quixtar consumer, is to make you an IBO and thereby brainwash you into thinking that you are on the forefront of a new and fascinating way of shopping.

Beautiful for the bottom line of Jay VanAndel and d**k DeVos, terrible for the average consumer.

Best regards, and thanks for positing such a peritnent question!
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#7 Consumer Comment

Why You Can't Be "A Customer" Only

AUTHOR: Cory - (U.S.A.)

Did the amway thing 20 years ago for a couple of months, until I saw the light and figured out the whole scam. They figure anyone who's dumb enough to "buy" their products is dumb enough to "buy" their whole spiel. I mean come on. How good can "their" soap powder or laundry detergent, or anything else be, over the competition's? They sold it in off size containers so the average moron couldn't compare, by unit price. They promised it was "the best" or "the greatest" which couldn't be substancitiated. They sold in oversized containers before everything was supersized. Their's was "natural" before natural or organic was popular. Their "products" weren't anything special in of themselves, just how they were marketed. My experience was, that many, but not all, of the people involved were rather shady. I'd order 5 lbs of soap powder and my upline would deliver 10. I finally went to one of their meeting and met a diamond. Backstage, in private, his thinking was 90% of the people involved were drones and weren't worth his time. He pointed out that there is always one person in ten, 10%, who were "racehorses" his words and would recruit and earn HIM 90% of his money. The amazing thing was 20 years later I ran into the same guy at a quixstar(sp) meeting some other folks dragged me to. They're not happy with someone who is only satisfied with buying their "product". The real money comes in the recruitment and "downline" sales. Selling them the tapes and other crap.
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#8 UPDATE Employee

You CAN be a customer without being an IBO

AUTHOR: Wakener - (U.S.A.)

Juliet from Birmingham, you stated that it is your impression that you cannot buy the products through Quixtar without signing up as an IBO, or as you put it, "becoming a recruiter." I'm afraid you are operating under an incorrect assumption. You can sign up as what we refer to as a "Customer." Generally, this means you talked to an IBO (let's call him "Fred" for the sake of conversation), but you were not interested in the business opportunity, but you were interested in the products and services, either the exclusive ones or the ones sold by the various companies we work with on a non-exclusive basis.

What happens then is that "Fred" will sign you up, or give you the info needed to sign up. You will be given a customer number, the main purpose of which is to let Quixtar know that Fred referred you. When you buy something, they know to credit Fred with the referral, so he gets proper credit for letting you know about this. You might never see Fred again, but as long as you purchase stuff through Quixtar, they will know that he sent you. Signing up as a customer costs you nothing other than the cost of the product and the shipping--stuff like that. There is no initial or periodic fee.

A lot of people who are customers sign up just so their purchases will help out a buddy, or because they want the convenience or the exclusive products, and so on.

Unless things have changed recently--something I might not know, since I have never purchased any of the so-called "mandatory" materials, nor have I gone to any of the so-called "mandatory" quarterly meetings (nor have I received any cold shoulders as a result. In my experience, these things are strongly encouraged, but in no way an onus upon anyone. If I make money, my upline makes money in volume or bonuses, and the encouragement has always been that these things will in all likelihood help me do so. But if I don't spend the money on them, the handshakes are just as firm, and the smiles as warm, and the advice as forthcoming)--but as I was saying, unless things have changed, there is also the option of becoming a "Member," which involves paying a small annual fee, but the difference between a Customer and a Member is that the Member pays the same discounted price that an IBO pays for most products.

The fees paid by a member, and by an IBO, for that matter, are subject to the same six-month money-back guarantee applicable to anything sold on the Quixtar website. If you think that you got a raw deal as a member of an IBO, within six months, just say so, and you'll get your money back--and yes, IBOs get to keep any money they have made as a result of their referrals.

So, if you know an IBO, you may want to ask about becoming a Customer. Hope that helps.
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#9 Consumer Comment

Why does no one ever answer why I can't be an MLM customer?

AUTHOR: Juliet - (U.S.A.)

I have asked the ''why can't I ever be a customer'' of multi-level marketing ''businesses'' without being a recruiter, IBO, whatever it is called, on numerous threads over several years, and have yet to get an answer.

I don't even know what conclusion to draw!
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#10 Consumer Comment

Why can't I ever be a customer?

AUTHOR: Juliet - (U.S.A.)

I still can't figure out why I can't seem to buy ANY MLM's products without being a recruiter or whatever you want to call it.

I've been introduced to these programs for over 20 years and never, no matter how interested I am in buying what is being presumably SOLD, can I buy anything without becoming 'part'' of whatever it is. Is this typical? Is this how it operates, only those who want to commit to a 'business opportunity'' can purchase the products? That is odd, to me.
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#11 Consumer Comment

My Memories of Amway

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

Years ago (I won't say how many) I became involved with Amway. To me it seemed a good way to supplement my income. It took about six months to understand why the business model has flaws.

Network marketing is an ok idea, except eventually if enough people join, there will be overpentration/oversaturation in the market and no customers to sell to. I wanted people to buy SA-8, not sell it. Selling it was my job. I see lately the system has gone away from direct sales into a really odd area where downlines are only purchasing for personal consumption and PV, not selling to the public. Recruit more people to buy the products themselves to recruit more people to buy the products themselves. Makes no sense.

Tapes and books were mostly lame rah rah stuff to get people fired up, but to recruit not to sell. At least Kirby runs their rah rahs to get the kids out on the street to sell vacuums to customers who they are not recruiting. Cheap but a waste of good money.

Biggest problem for me, sales and markup. Not to be immodest, but I am a natural at sales. I knew exactly which products to market and exactly where to market them. I know today, if I wanted to (and I don't), I could sell more SA-8 in my community is a week than Amway's best seller could in a year. I know it and I've done it. Problem is, the products are expensive, sure they may be concentrated, but you can only jack up the price so much before customers will balk at the purchase. so when I would sell the products, my markup was usually pretty minimal in order to compete with the unit pricing of other similar products. It ended up that I made a bit of money on my sales, but not enough to justify the effort.

It may work for some people and by all means if it does that is great. For me, I simply didn't want to have to move that much merchandise - if I can get $1 per box of SA-8 over my cost, if I sell 100 a day, it's not a great day and that is an awful lot of work. Also, I have zero interest in having anyone working under me. I am trying to sell product and would consider the need to "motivate" some lazy a** as a waste of time and taking away from my sale time.

I just think that there are better products to sell in terms of your commission income where you won't have to wear yourself out trying to make $50.

One other thing I recall, corporate support for sales was terrible from Ada. I spent some time working with businesses to put product in on test basis. I was assured by my upline that corporate would take care of everything once I got the business to agree to by a trial. Needless to day, they didn't perform.

Best of luck to all - dreams are good but make sure they are realistic.
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#12 UPDATE Employee

AMWAY a Scam?

AUTHOR: Vanessa - (Australia)

I know for a fact that i am easily brain washed, so when it came time to actually sign up to this "scam" it took me 4 weeks to actually do anything about it. I did have my upline calling me and giving me cd's and books, and to tell you the truth, i lied and told him i'd listened to them and gave them back without a second look. I read the books, but then again i'll read anything. After all that, i still signed up!

I've now been an IBO for a few months and im not a millionaire in that very short time, but i didn't expect to be and my upline made it very clear to me that it will take time and as long as i'm "teachable and motivated" i'll get there. I'm sure you've all heard those two words before!

I do wonder why my diamond upline is still running around showing the plan. And i also wondered why they got upset when my newly registered IBO didn't want to sign up to the books/cd's, which in turn got me upset and angry, which really, i don't even listen to the cd's anyway! I've been meaning to cancel my subscription to them, but im still trying to figure out whether they are to my benefit or not. I guess it would help if i listened to them hey? The meetings don't do anything for me but for some strange reason i still go to them.

If anything good comes out of this, it will be the fact that im addicted to the products and yes, some of them do come out cheaper! Regardless of how many people i get under me, i haven't quit my job to do this and whatever money this makes me will be a dollar more than those who don't do anything!

I think i AM brainwashed beyond repair because i cannot see how this can fail for anyone! (Anyone in Australia that is) I have lost all sense of shame in trying to sell this business! I lead by example, not through my uplines, but through the big supermarkets who shamefully sell us products that we need at full price, that they get for half price! So why is it wrong for me to do it through amway???? Is it because i get a tiny profit from it all?!?!

You register, you get people under you, yes they make you money through products we all need anyway (sheesh im sounding like my upline), which in turn they try getting people under them to do the same, which those people then try getting people under them and so on it goes. The uplines benefit more, but get people under you and hey presto you'll be an upline too!

For me, it's not about the cd's, the meetings or any of that crapola, i didn't go in expecting to make it big in a short amount of time, and i don't push any of my downlines to subscribe to the books/cd's. Its about learning to be smart in business & life and if i have to be ruthless to get to the top, then so be it! At least i'll have the products to make me look good when i get there! and if i don't make it ... well i'll only have myself to blame.
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#13 Consumer Comment

NPR News: 4 AMWAY Distributors loose $19 MIL Lawsuit to P&G

AUTHOR: Thomas - (U.S.A.)

Source: NPR News 10 PM Monday 19 March 2007

NPR News reported that FOUR (4) AMWAY Distributors lost a $19 MIL Lawsuit to P&G . The FOUR (4) AMWAY Distributors were found to be spreading stories that P&G supported the Church of Satan. P&G asserted that P&G lost sales as a result of this unfair business practice of spreading stories previously proven to be false. The damages phase may substantially raise the judgment amount.

The parent AMWAY was not liable for any part of the judgment.

Makes you proud to be a part of AMWAY, wouldn't it?
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#14 Consumer Comment

NPR News: 4 AMWAY Distributors loose $19 MIL Lawsuit to P&G

AUTHOR: Thomas - (U.S.A.)

Source: NPR News 10 PM Monday 19 March 2007

NPR News reported that FOUR (4) AMWAY Distributors lost a $19 MIL Lawsuit to P&G . The FOUR (4) AMWAY Distributors were found to be spreading stories that P&G supported the Church of Satan. P&G asserted that P&G lost sales as a result of this unfair business practice of spreading stories previously proven to be false. The damages phase may substantially raise the judgment amount.

The parent AMWAY was not liable for any part of the judgment.

Makes you proud to be a part of AMWAY, wouldn't it?
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#15 Consumer Comment

NPR News: 4 AMWAY Distributors loose $19 MIL Lawsuit to P&G

AUTHOR: Thomas - (U.S.A.)

Source: NPR News 10 PM Monday 19 March 2007

NPR News reported that FOUR (4) AMWAY Distributors lost a $19 MIL Lawsuit to P&G . The FOUR (4) AMWAY Distributors were found to be spreading stories that P&G supported the Church of Satan. P&G asserted that P&G lost sales as a result of this unfair business practice of spreading stories previously proven to be false. The damages phase may substantially raise the judgment amount.

The parent AMWAY was not liable for any part of the judgment.

Makes you proud to be a part of AMWAY, wouldn't it?
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#16 Consumer Comment

NPR News: 4 AMWAY Distributors loose $19 MIL Lawsuit to P&G

AUTHOR: Thomas - (U.S.A.)

Source: NPR News 10 PM Monday 19 March 2007

NPR News reported that FOUR (4) AMWAY Distributors lost a $19 MIL Lawsuit to P&G . The FOUR (4) AMWAY Distributors were found to be spreading stories that P&G supported the Church of Satan. P&G asserted that P&G lost sales as a result of this unfair business practice of spreading stories previously proven to be false. The damages phase may substantially raise the judgment amount.

The parent AMWAY was not liable for any part of the judgment.

Makes you proud to be a part of AMWAY, wouldn't it?
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#17 UPDATE Employee

soon to be former IBO...

AUTHOR: Angela - (U.S.A.)

I joined Quixtar last summer when a friend & her husband invited me to a house meeting. Everything was very low-key, but the main thing was the level of excitement that just radiated from both of them. Well, after attending that first house meeting, the following week, I attended another. The week after that, one of those hotel meetings was held and, sadly, I was hooked. I felt like, heck, if they can do it..I know I can! Why wouldn't my friends & family members want to join me & become financially free?! So I plunked down my $140 for the initial IBO kit (the best thing in the kit was those energy drinks!)..I ended up giving everything else -- the vitamins, the laundry powder, the protein bars -- to my cousin.

So..shortly after that, my friend/upline started calling me several times a week..to see if I was calling folks on my contact list. I work in corporate America, so there were days, I'd get home from work & wasn't thinking about calling anyone. When I made the list, it was a 'top of my head' list of people that I knew from work, church, school, etc. Next thing I knew, she asked for a copy of the list. Foolish me, I gave it to her..and nearly lost several friends/associates shortly after!!

Two nights later, 'Bill' one of my co-workers called & left me a scathing voice mail about giving his phone number to people he doesn't know -- it didn't help matters any that my upline called around 9:30 & Bill's wife answered. Needless to say, she was NOT happy! The day after that, one of my very best friends went off on me for the same reason.

So...my first order, I bought a few things that I'd have normally bought at Rite-Aid: soap, bath tissue, toothpaste, and of course..those wonderful energy drinks! I wasn't impressed with the bath tissue (I'll be going back to my Charmin just as soon as I finish using the case of newspaper-quality tissue I have!) I also did some shopping thru a few of their Partner stores.

Guess what..I came nowhere near to getting to that first 100PV. Heck, by now it was time for me to shop for my kids back to school, holidays were fast approaching..I didn't think about it. I bought a couple cases of the drinks each month & some cd's from the Partner stores, but still tried to keep up with the regular house meetings & the hotel meetings.

A few weeks into my IBO-ship, I noticed that my upline was no longer calling. By now, I knew she & her hubby had gone thru my initial contact list. Now, I'm not your average social butterfly..those 25 people were basically ALL I knew..and I only included folks that I thought might genuinely be interested and open-minded enough to give it a listen -- something that veteran IBOs frown on (assuming you know how folks will/will not respond). Still, the final straw for me was when I got an email shortly after Thanksgiving that I was a few PV shy of my bonus.

So what did I do..basically I robbed Peter to pay Paul..did some penny pinching on bills, gifts, etc. & placed that order..which came to $102.49. Imagine my surprise (and irritation) the following month when my elusive bonus turned out to be less than $4. That's when I started looking up info on the company..I know...talk about shutting the barn door after all the horses, cows, and goats done run off.

I'm not doubting that it works for some folks..I just know I wish I'd done my research beforehand.
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#18 Consumer Suggestion

A Self Centered and Fraudulent Ethic

AUTHOR: Claire - (U.S.A.)

I have no doubt that Amway associates can be successful. However, rather than your own 'dream' think of those friends and families that are cheated and conned into helping you get there. I have been to many amway conferences to please a boyfriend I had been with for seven years. Please believe me that their strategies for success are nothing short of fraudulent.

In the course of 2 years, I witnessed by boyfriend steal, cheat and lie to his work team members, friends and family.

If I can persuade one person from keeping away from this disgraceful excuse of a scam, then this will be worth it. To those who are members, get an honest job. I cannot believe you can sleep at night.
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#19 Consumer Comment

RE: Sean

AUTHOR: Cori - (U.S.A.)

Shame on YOU Sean! Why would anyone want to associate with people who just feed you a lot of B.S.? Because that's all you get from Quixtar recruiters. And from you as well. I can tell you firsthand that every weekly meeting that my friends go to costs them to get into.

Yes...that's right. $5.00 each. That doesn't count the gas money that they spend to drive to where these meetings are held which is a very good distance from where they live. Then there's all of that motivational mumbo jumbo that they're strongly encouraged to purchase at each meeting. Tapes, books, cd's, product etc. They have to have these in order to succeed. After the cost for all of the seminars, functions, rallies, etc that they attend, they are actually losing money.

In the long run, the only ones making any significant money at all, are the big guys selling the motivational tools. That's where the real money is. It's all about volume. People volume, not product volume. Go out & recruit as many suckers as possible. The more suckers involved, the more books, tapes, meetings, cd's, seminars, rallies, functions there are to bring in the money! The little guy will never succeed in this business no matter how hard he tries! That's a fact.
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#20 Consumer Comment

RE: Sean

AUTHOR: Cori - (U.S.A.)

Shame on YOU Sean! Why would anyone want to associate with people who just feed you a lot of B.S.? Because that's all you get from Quixtar recruiters. And from you as well. I can tell you firsthand that every weekly meeting that my friends go to costs them to get into.

Yes...that's right. $5.00 each. That doesn't count the gas money that they spend to drive to where these meetings are held which is a very good distance from where they live. Then there's all of that motivational mumbo jumbo that they're strongly encouraged to purchase at each meeting. Tapes, books, cd's, product etc. They have to have these in order to succeed. After the cost for all of the seminars, functions, rallies, etc that they attend, they are actually losing money.

In the long run, the only ones making any significant money at all, are the big guys selling the motivational tools. That's where the real money is. It's all about volume. People volume, not product volume. Go out & recruit as many suckers as possible. The more suckers involved, the more books, tapes, meetings, cd's, seminars, rallies, functions there are to bring in the money! The little guy will never succeed in this business no matter how hard he tries! That's a fact.
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#21 Consumer Comment

RE: Sean

AUTHOR: Cori - (U.S.A.)

Shame on YOU Sean! Why would anyone want to associate with people who just feed you a lot of B.S.? Because that's all you get from Quixtar recruiters. And from you as well. I can tell you firsthand that every weekly meeting that my friends go to costs them to get into.

Yes...that's right. $5.00 each. That doesn't count the gas money that they spend to drive to where these meetings are held which is a very good distance from where they live. Then there's all of that motivational mumbo jumbo that they're strongly encouraged to purchase at each meeting. Tapes, books, cd's, product etc. They have to have these in order to succeed. After the cost for all of the seminars, functions, rallies, etc that they attend, they are actually losing money.

In the long run, the only ones making any significant money at all, are the big guys selling the motivational tools. That's where the real money is. It's all about volume. People volume, not product volume. Go out & recruit as many suckers as possible. The more suckers involved, the more books, tapes, meetings, cd's, seminars, rallies, functions there are to bring in the money! The little guy will never succeed in this business no matter how hard he tries! That's a fact.
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#22 Consumer Comment

RE: Wanda

AUTHOR: Cori - (U.S.A.)

QUOTE...."I never made it because any business takes a lot of time to build & I could not leave my kids that much."

That's a very interesting comment coming from someone that was involved in the "business." From what I've heard at their meetings, & on their tapes, they promise that you can gain financial freedom & time with your family & kids just by working this business 10-12 hours or so a week. That's a crock! Why lie to people?

All I've seen so far, is my friends spending so much money on meetings, tapes, books, function tickets, rallies, opens, seminars, etc., etc. & nothing on the business. They work very hard too. In fact, they have been programmed to eat, sleep & think of nothing else but Quixtar! Their circle of friends & family are all Quixtar recruiters / IBO's. Keep out anyone else that doesn't believe in the business. They are just "dream stealers." No one gets rich from this business except the guys selling all of the motivational crap that people are suckered into buying in order to succeed in this business. It's all based on a huge lie! What's the word I have seen mentioned over & over again? Oh yes...mass deception! That's it!

So, please, take a long hard look at the very few
people out there that defend Quixtar & the thousands that have been duped by them & left financially destitute because of this pyramid scheme. That's right...pyramid scheme. Your wonderful MLM term that all of you Quixtar recruiters use is nothing more than the legal term for pyramid scheme. Just like Quixtar is nothing more than Amway under a new name.
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#23 Consumer Comment

RE: Jackye

AUTHOR: Cori - (U.S.A.)

Poor Jackye. Do you mean that one can actually make $90.00 a month from your Quixtar business? From everything that I read & according to Dateline's report about Quixtar, they said that the average IBO makes $1,400 a YEAR from Quixtar. So, yes, you're not too far off. But, don't you think that's a far cry from the quarter of a million that Mr. Greg Fredericks professed could be made by just working the business 10-15 hours a week? That's where I have a real problem with this business. I don't know enough about their product line other than after checking with other comparable products, Quixtar is a little over-priced, but I really hate the fact that people are being lied to & promised the American Dream & financial freedom through these lies.

This business is a success for the top dogs simply because they sell motivation. Not because of Quixtars wonderful products. That's a farce. I know that for a fact because I have friends in this business that have nothing to show for their hard work except a number of tapes, books & other motivational tools that they were conned into buying in order to succeed in the business.
I was smart enough not to get involved. Oh, yes, & Quixtar is NOT different from Amway. They are one in the same. Amway just got caught & was ordered to stop using deceitful & unethical business practices to scam people. They simply had to start the business over under a different name because there was so much bad publicity about Amway that no one wanted anything to do with it. Even today, as soon as people hear the word AMWAY, they run the other way. That's a fact. Google Quixtar. See what you come up with. Then, while you're at it, check out Datelines report about Quixtar. They're just a tad bit more reputible that any Quixtar recruiter.
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#24 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I am an ex worldwide member

AUTHOR: Darin - (U.S.A.)

A few years ago I signed up for amway worldwide (because a friend was in it), Back then you had to buy something every month to maintain your ibo. Well i never made money in it and my friend?? He has moved on too and never made money in it

Sean you're blinded to reality if you say people that claim they lose money in Amway/quixtar is lying.

For those defending the "business model" or "compensation plan" needs to seriously contact your local Attorney General's office to get the laws on multi level marketing and the laws on the lottery and franchising. because in minnesota the Attorney General has been watching companies with questionable pasts closely b/c something in their business model violates the MLM laws of minnesota.
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#25 UPDATE EX-employee responds

So many of you are right...

AUTHOR: Adam - (U.S.A.)

So many of you are right about the Quixtar and Amway story. I am an ex IBO. and I have probably more toward the top of this thing than anyone on here. I have a, lets say close relative in this business that is a founding diamond. (those of you in the business know what that is) she has been in this for about 30 years or so. Did she make money? yes she did but how. wellshe got in at the ground level. and she stil works the business and shows the plan 2 times a week. But I can say that she makes no where near what she used to make. yes she has money but it is from investments and properties. I also know she has grown children who are in the business and grew up in the business and my question is this. If they have been in the business all their lives and have grown up with this why do they have regular jobs? if it works so well why do they work for a living and do this on the side? and for the ones of you saying I am full of crap let me drop a couple of names for you to see if I know who I am talking about. Dr. Waters,Dexter Yager, ummm and others. I have also been to some of the events. and I have also been invited to visit with Dexter back stage due to who I know.
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#26 Consumer Comment

Correct, Rita

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

Yes, you are pretty much correct Rita, and I may have mispoken/misinformed in the previous rebuttal (my apologies, I was thnking about two different things).

You can deduct the costs of carrying on a sole proprietorship against your personal income.

There is no hard-and-fast rule for how long you sould deduct more than what your business makes. At a certian point in time, the IRS may take a look at what you are doing and decide that you had no realistic profit motive and start disallowing deductions.

Three years would probably be about right in this situation.

Again, sorry for my earlier mistatements. That's why I'm not an accountant.
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#27 Consumer Suggestion

Target selling concentrated cleaners

AUTHOR: Rita - (U.S.A.)

Timothy- One thing I want to add regarding taxes-my understanding is that you can have deductions exceeding income for the first 3 years if your intent is to make a profit. You could actually have a loss for three years.

Today I was shopping at Target and noticed Target Brand "concentrated" laundry detergent. It looked like it was designed to compete with the Quixtar brand of detergent. I didn't have time to get details on it
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#28 Consumer Comment

The Illusory Tax Benefits

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

You hit the nail right on the head, Rita. Well, almost.

You brought up an important issue that I would like to touch on: the so-called "tax benefits."

These tax benefits are a big selling point for many MLMs. But few people actually understand them, and very few people actually "benefit" from them.

Let's take an example. Say you purchase a $100 fax machine for your "business." You get to pay $100 less in taxes, right? Wrong!

You do not get a direct reduction in taxes owed. Rather, you get a deduction in the amount of your income that is taxed. And, seeing as how most MLMers are in low tax brackets, this results in, at most, about a $15 tax savings.

But that's not even the whole story. As a business asset with a usable life, the fax machine must be "capitalized." This means that you do not deduct the entire $100 on this year's tax return. Rather, you take "depreciation deductions" over the useful life of the machine. If the useful life is 5 years, you will take something like $20 in deductions, each year, for 5 years. Therefore, your year 1 tax savings will actually be about $3.

Is it really a wise decision to spend $100 just to save $3?

Let's take another popular example: travel and entertainment expenses. These are a little more lucrative, but their value, and their usability, is grossly overstated.

"But I can take a trip to Vegas, and as long as I try to sell some products or recruit people, I can write the expenses off." Not quite wrong, but not quite right either.

First of all, you are limited to a 50% deduction in your expenses. If you spend $2000 on your trip, you MAY (see below) take a $1000 deduction, which will probably reduce your tax liability by no more than (and probably much less than) $150.

Second, you will be required to document your expenses, so be sure to save your receipts!

Third, these deductions are only available for certain expenses. So, on your $2000 trip, only airfare, food, and lodging will be deductible. And meals will only be deductible if they are had with a potential client/employee. This will probably knock you down to about a $500 deduction, resulting in a tax savings of $75.

Fourth, these expenses must be legitimately connected to your business. Merely taking a trip and making a few incidental attempts at sales WILL NOT qualify you for ANY deductions. And if you try to take deductions anyways, then say hello to the auditor for me!

And, finally, keep in mind that your business deductions will only offset your business income. They cannot be applied to your non-business income. If you don't have any business income to offset, or if you have such a low business income that you are in the zero bracket (which the vast majority of IBOs are), then these "benefits" will not benefit you AT ALL.

Considering that the avergae IBO earns about $1400 per year, is it really a good decision to make a bunch of unnecessary purchases just to save a few bucks at tax time?
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#29 Consumer Comment

Products Way Overpriced

AUTHOR: Rita - (U.S.A.)

I signed up to start at Quixtar business a couple years ago and have since quit. Some months I had to spend $500 to get enough points to remain eligible. (I know you can spend less to get enough points if you buy their core cleaning products etc.; but I usually needed those)

I found the products way over priced. Then you had to pay shipping on top of it.

My upline wanted me to give them a list of all my contacts and they would conveniently contact them to join the business. I wouldn't do that until I was convinced it was a good business. They tell you that they are cutting out the middleman, yet they charge like twice as much for things. What B.S.!

Thank GOd I never released my valued contacts to be solicited- I would have lost my credibility.

Quixtar is a legitamate business, however, you can get tax benefits and make a lot of money if you have a strong downline. But it is against my personal values to sell something that is not a good value. There are plenty of other businesses out there one can do for the tax benefits and independence.

I also think you have a better chance of success if you live in a small town without a Costco or Sam's Club and people can appreciate the convenience of home delivery. You will get what you order from that and you can return items. But the items are way overpriced.

I never got suckered into buying the tapes etc., I heard people lose a lot of money on that too. I also heard that the people that make tons on money in Quixtar make it from selling or creating the tapes and speaking at meetings.
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#30 Consumer Comment

Products Way Overpriced

AUTHOR: Rita - (U.S.A.)

I signed up to start at Quixtar business a couple years ago and have since quit. Some months I had to spend $500 to get enough points to remain eligible. (I know you can spend less to get enough points if you buy their core cleaning products etc.; but I usually needed those)

I found the products way over priced. Then you had to pay shipping on top of it.

My upline wanted me to give them a list of all my contacts and they would conveniently contact them to join the business. I wouldn't do that until I was convinced it was a good business. They tell you that they are cutting out the middleman, yet they charge like twice as much for things. What B.S.!

Thank GOd I never released my valued contacts to be solicited- I would have lost my credibility.

Quixtar is a legitamate business, however, you can get tax benefits and make a lot of money if you have a strong downline. But it is against my personal values to sell something that is not a good value. There are plenty of other businesses out there one can do for the tax benefits and independence.

I also think you have a better chance of success if you live in a small town without a Costco or Sam's Club and people can appreciate the convenience of home delivery. You will get what you order from that and you can return items. But the items are way overpriced.

I never got suckered into buying the tapes etc., I heard people lose a lot of money on that too. I also heard that the people that make tons on money in Quixtar make it from selling or creating the tapes and speaking at meetings.
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#31 Consumer Comment

Products Way Overpriced

AUTHOR: Rita - (U.S.A.)

I signed up to start at Quixtar business a couple years ago and have since quit. Some months I had to spend $500 to get enough points to remain eligible. (I know you can spend less to get enough points if you buy their core cleaning products etc.; but I usually needed those)

I found the products way over priced. Then you had to pay shipping on top of it.

My upline wanted me to give them a list of all my contacts and they would conveniently contact them to join the business. I wouldn't do that until I was convinced it was a good business. They tell you that they are cutting out the middleman, yet they charge like twice as much for things. What B.S.!

Thank GOd I never released my valued contacts to be solicited- I would have lost my credibility.

Quixtar is a legitamate business, however, you can get tax benefits and make a lot of money if you have a strong downline. But it is against my personal values to sell something that is not a good value. There are plenty of other businesses out there one can do for the tax benefits and independence.

I also think you have a better chance of success if you live in a small town without a Costco or Sam's Club and people can appreciate the convenience of home delivery. You will get what you order from that and you can return items. But the items are way overpriced.

I never got suckered into buying the tapes etc., I heard people lose a lot of money on that too. I also heard that the people that make tons on money in Quixtar make it from selling or creating the tapes and speaking at meetings.
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#32 Consumer Comment

The numbers speak for themselves!

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

Nobody needs to say whether this is "right" or not. The numbers speak for themselves.

$115 per month average income (not accounting for business connected purchases, which would severely reduce this number).

If 1% of IBOs are making 100k per year, then the rest are averaging something less than a dollar an hour.

Some estimates hold that at least 98.8% of IBOs actually LOSE money.

It is widely accepted that the vast majority of IBOs spend more on motivational materials than they earn.

The products are grossly overpriced (do a price comparison for yourself).

Turnover exceeds %150.

If you still need convincing, then let me tell you about a great opportunity I have for you. You see, you are the next of kin for a wealthy Nigerian who recently passed away. You stand to inherit quite a bit of money, but there's a slight problem . . .
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#33 UPDATE Employee

Taking things with a grain of salt...

AUTHOR: Krista - (U.S.A.)

I have read a lot of crap on the rip off reports, as well as credible information. It's all about taking the time and energy to weed through the crap to hear the real information. The truth is, to some, this business has felt like a scam, but in reality it is a legit business and it will work for those willing to work it. It's not a get rich quick thing, it's like a real job where you have to work for it. It's no different than mary kay, avon, or any of those other similar businesses. It's just like EVERY thing else in the world. Some people have bad experiences and some have good ones...who is to say one is right and the other isn't?
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#34 Consumer Comment

MLM is a flawed Model (UNLESS YOU START IT UP YOURSELF)

AUTHOR: Al - (U.S.A.)

Many family members and friends have been through the Amway/Qixstar shuffle. I've been told of the 'being your own best customer' scheme, but was always told to 'build the network'. You cannot have everyone you know trying to sell an oppertunity, you have to sell product, but that is what they pushed in every meeting, besides the sales materials, which is in fact how every one that gets past emermald and all the way to diamond makes the real money. It is the secret to most MLM's, meetings and materials.

Years ago my wife was approached by a military guy when she worked at a Wilco Store about a new 'job' op. It was Quorum, and I was impressed by their products, personal security alarms, home alarms that worked off of air pressure (the refridgerator demo impressed me), product attached movement alarms (like for tool boxes and bikes), decent products. I signed up, spend 80 bucks to become a distributor. I actually sold 4 personal alarms for 30 bucks each and sold a couple of home alarms. I didn't have 1500 bucks to buy the products to demo to folks (wasn't required)...I signed up my college roommate and his brother in law...they bought a couple hundred worth of product for demo, got me a 'pin' at a meeting...then my upline's upline sponsor went behind my back to usurup my downline, only because they spent money for their purposes, not even regarding the fact I ACTUALLY SOLD to multiple people, I didn't care to have everyone I sold to selling the product as well. Since they wouldn't allow me to retail or advertise, my hands were tied, I stopped going to meetings, I got a call from 'Steve' my up line and he yelled "Don't you care about building your business??!?!?". I said, "YEA, SURE, only if it could be operated like one" and never spoke to any one there again. I guess amway/quixstar is in the same boat, no advertising or real marketing, or retailing, just person to person sales to convience folks to choose to limit their options, like stop going to Wal Mart to get 99cent shampoo or carpet cleaner. By The way, a month after i quit quorum Wal Mart started selling the same style personal alarms for $9.99. MLM limits choice, isn't a true commercial business model, and I feel for the individuals that are trapped by that model because they have been 'sold' one too many times by chants, slogans, and pep rallies. I do independent computer services and average no less than $10.00 an hour depending on the job, which may pay as much as $60 an hour, and may only be as hard as watching some percentage bars go by....talk about a rip off...hehehe just kidding, I solve those crashes and web crap real good....

Your Constant Rip Off Report Reader,
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#35 Consumer Comment

I returned the materials I borrowed and told him that we are not interested at this point and we are not yet ready to handle such responsibility.

AUTHOR: Tara - (Canada)

He was adamant that we join and he said that he is will sign us up and pay for the registration fee for the mean time until we get enough money to pay him back. We have enough money alright - but not enough conscience to be recruited and scam someone else.

For those of you who are looking into meeting with them and seeing what they have to offer - don't! Once they see your interest and you decide not to participate they will not let you off the hook that easy. They will try to pressure you or use your current state in life to lure you in.

A real and honest business will not do that to you. Research first and know everything there is to know about them. It is expensive not to know what you are getting in to.

Goodluck!
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#36 Consumer Comment

Almost scammed

AUTHOR: Tara - (Canada)

Just want to say thank you to Rip-off report and to all those people who posted information about Quixtar. You definitely saved my life and my husband's.

I was approched by my husband's co-worker about this company. Mind you, he used the word "business proposal" which got us really excited about it. So, we met him and his mom (business partner) at a coffe shop. He started our meeting with asking questions about us and our plans in the future. That's when both of my husband felt skeptical.

We were pinching each other under the table - sort of giving each other a signal that there is something wrong with this. What really threw me off, is when he started presenting with visual aids. Sort of like the same presentation that I got from Primerica. It's funny how all his questions to us ties in on his presentation. He used all our dreams and goals to convince us that with Quixtar it's the best way to reach it. The way he positioned the company, was really convincing. I thought, what I've got to loose with $250 dollars registration fee? To cut the long story short, we ended up borrowing the materials from him and he will soon contact us to get the materials back. We were kinda skeptical but we wanted to read the materials to make sure what were getting into.

A while back I watched something about Quixtar at Dateline NBC - but was not sure if this was the company in question.

As soon as I got home, I immediately went to rip-off report and not to my surprise, saw these postings about Quixtar. These postings are enough to convince us, that this is something we would rather get involved with.

Thank you people and rip-off report for making us aware. You just don't know how you have saved our lives! God is indeed on our side.

[DELETED]
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#37 Consumer Comment

Stop Blaming & think...

AUTHOR: Mack - (U.S.A.)

The basic problem appears to be the fact that most of the respondents are comparing the Quixtar oppty. to a job. The fact is that there is "skimming" in every industry.

Those with jobs...do you think your employer is paying you what you are worth? When I was involved in the bidding process for government contracts, we usually bid 2.5 times the employees salary. That meant the company kept 150% or your salary as profit and overhead. Remember as an employee, you are a profit point or you would not have been hired. The company that is "paying" you is making more than your salary off of you. That is business.

Regarding the tools...if you participated in everything, the typical cost, based on what I have read here, is about $1500/year. My wife is a teacher. She, like many other professions, is required to take classes every year to maintain her credential/license. And if she want to "advance" in her pay scale she must get additional degrees. Each class at the local univeristy costs at least $2000 including books etc. If she actually wants to get an MA or PhD, it would cost her hours every week and thousands of dollars. And what does she get at the end, maybe a $500-$1000/year pay increase.
Also, I have many friends who have tried to get into the acting/film industry. They have paid thousands of $$ for acting classes to try to break into the industry. Yet, the average SAG member makes only $2500/yr and 80% make less than $5000/yr. That doesn't sound like too good of a deal to me, yet thousands pay money each year chasing the dream.
I considered law school once upon a time. The figures the law school quoted was that it would cost about $175,000 to lving expenses and school during the years it would take to get my degree. At the end I would get a job that paid on average $35,000. And this was at a good law school.
Grow up people and look at what other people need to do to enter business or maintain a job. $1500 by comparison is peanuts.

Re: the tool "scam"...before I ever saw this business, I purchased motivational and training tapes. Take a look at the cost for seminars and tapes online (eg. Nightingale-Conant). Most of their tape programs cost around $10-12/tape. And try going to a motivational/training seminar. Franklin-Covey offers time management day long seminars for only $250/day. By comparison, the Quixtar "tools" are quite competitive. And if I, or anybody else, finds value in them, then who cares who makes moeny on it. Somebody will make money on everything you purchase. Nothing is ever given away for free. There is always a price and a cost.

Re the products... The products are competitively priced and no more of a "rip-off" than anything else out there. True, if you look you can possibly similar products priced less somewhere. However, both Wal-Mart, a low priced store, and 7-11, a high priced store, somehow both survive in the marketplace. Quixtar/Amway has a place. And their products do do what they say they will.


Re the business opportunity... Remember it is a business. It is not a job. There is no guarantee. 80% of all business fail in the first 5 years. Why should Quixtar be any different? The one advantage that Quixtar has is that if you do fail, you don't lose everything. Most small businesses require around $50K to get started. If you work hard, 80-100 hours per week, you might succeed and eventually earn back the money you put into it. With Quixtar, if you decide to quit after 3 months, you will get most of your money back.
In addition, unlike a job or most other business opportunities, Quixtar does not screen potential distributors. The opportunity is open and available to anyone. As a result, people who have no business being in business are. People who have no financial discipline or business experience are failing and falling over themselves and losing money that they should not have ever spent.
Quixtar is a BUSINESS opportunity. If people started looking at it as a business and treated it as such there would be far fewer complaints.
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#38 Consumer Comment

Amway has morphed into another name called Quixtar, which is essentially the same scam as Amway

AUTHOR: Richard - (U.S.A.)

In response to Carlos from Long Beach, CA...The reason why Amway doesn't market in the U.S. is because its morphed into another name called Quixtar, which is essentially the same scam as Amway. Don't believe the hype! Quixtar and any other MLM will you suck you dry and spit you out or you'll turn into an individual preying on people's dreams and selling them motivation, all the while convincing them they'll make money...Don't be suckered. You'll have better odds playing the lottery!
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#39 Consumer Comment

Amway opportunity no longer available in the US and Canada?

AUTHOR: Carlos - (U.S.A.)

I was approached by an Amway distributor who invited me to one of their business meetings to see and evaluate this great business opportunity. However, when I went to the Amway website to get more info on this business opportunity, it said that Amway is not offering it in the United States or Canada any longer.

Here's the actual text:

"Amway does not offer its business opportunity in the United States or Canada."

I'm confused. If they don't offer this opportunity in the US or Canada anymore, why then I was approached by one of their distributors offering this non available opportunity.

Here is the webpage address:

http://www.amway.com/globalcomm/g-usa.asp

Thanks in advance for your help.
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#40 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Quixtar didn't help us achieve our dreams, We/Ourselves achieve our dreams

AUTHOR: Debbie - (U.S.A.)

Have any of you heard the saying; "He could sell a freezer to an Eskimo!" or "He could sell s**t on a paper plate!" Who of you out there need someone to sell you YOUR dream? They sit you down, ask you questions to find your soft spot & then go in for the kill. If you don't follow the "PLAN" then your DREAM isn't strong/good enough... Bullshit! Quixtar didn't help us achieve our dreams, We/Ourselves achieve our dreams. We prioritized our dreams & Quixtar wasn't at the top of the list. Hence, our dreams weren't good enough & we were written off as failures. I have since learned that there are many-many different avenues to choose from to create "Multiple Income Streams". Someone wrote in about Quixtar & said something to the effect that they wanted to spend more time with their family & couldn't spend time doing Quixtar. The kicker was that they actually believed they themselves were failures because their dream wasn't big enough...Bullshit! No matter what we do for a living, we should never put business before family. If any of you have big brothers or sisters, did you ever learn from their mistakes? I did. I was too embarrassed to talk to them about Quixtar. Why? I (deep down inside) knew what they would say, and they would have been right too. I still have dreams, some are coming true as I write, some are in the making and others are being worked & saved for. My family is in the $65,000.00/yr club, Quixtar didn't take us to Peter Island, but it did teach us a few things Not to do. Please take heed...
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#41 Consumer Comment

not fooling myself and others in a scam based setup.

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

Dreams are good.
But the reality it takes time & effort.

Reality is that I now spend much less time than I did in Amway simply by doing the details to be a success, and not fooling myself and others in a scam based setup.

Pursue the dream by doing what it takes to get there.

But in the long run, most will be more successfull by ignoring the Amway/Quixstar way.

The odds are great that most wont be, and that most will be more successfull with other methods.

But then there are so many that still think Walmart is the best way to shop, yet locally it is one of the worst places to shop at.

(Not the cheapest in cost, and often the lowest quality of products).
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#42 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I really think the most responsible thing is to warn others

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

Sean, you're all over the map with your posts. It's ok, we'll steer you through this together.

I think the dream in your heart is honorable. If that dream is to be financially secure through your own hard work and merit, and not have to bow down to the whim of an employer. If the dream is to set your family up so that they don't have to worry about where their next meal is coming from or if junior is going to be able to go to college. I've got no problem with the dream. I have a problem with the execution.

I'm not sure why my occupation matters to this discussion, but I'm in the rat race like everyone else. I think we have the same mindset, that we are unhappy with our mainstream income, and want to augment that through other means. We think alike enough that I gave your business a shot. I enjoyed it when I did it, but I learned some ugly truths along the way, so I stopped. If that makes me a "blamer", so be it.

I have seen too many people sell out to the MLM industry only to have their dreams dashed. I cannot sit idly by and watch that happen. You asked if it is better for people to build up your ego or to tell you that what you're doing is senseless. I think Simon Cowell of American Idol would tell you it's the latter. If those fools are blind enough to think that they have even an iota of talent to get up on a national stage and make idiots of themselves, he has an obligation to tell them that they are not talented and should get a day job. It's cold, It's rude, but it's tough love.

I'm here to tell you (read: all IBOs) that what you are doing is wrong even if you doing it for the right reasons. For every person who makes it to direct and is able to retire as a ruby, there are thousands others who do not make it.

Sean, you also indicated that my negativity is a waste of time. You're right, it is a waste of time.

Monday - Contacting with upline from 7:30 - 9:30
Tuesday - At upline's house calling contacts from 7:30 - 9:30
Wednesday - Weekly meeting where we show the plan from 7:30 - 9:30
Thursday - Contacting with upline from 7:30 - 9:30
Friday - Breakout meeting where we accept new members from 7:30 - 9:30
Saturday - Contacting with upline from 1:00 - 3:00
Sunday - Dreambuilding with upline from 1:00 - 3:00

If this doesn't look like the schedule you keep, you are on the slow road to success within Quixtar. If you're "serious" about your dream, you will keep this schedule. That's 14 hours a week on top of your daily work routine. You clear $500/month which equates to roughly $8.92/hour you put into it.

I own a convenience store and I'm looking for some part-time help. I'll pay you $10/hour and you can have your weekends off to spend with your family.
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#43 Consumer Comment

so much evidence that AMWAY is not the way

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

The real waste of energy is defending Amway.
Its a complete waste of ones life and efforts to pursue a Amway/Quixstar way of doing business.
Especially when there is so much evidence that AMWAY is not the way.
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#44 Consumer Comment

so much evidence that AMWAY is not the way

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

The real waste of energy is defending Amway.
Its a complete waste of ones life and efforts to pursue a Amway/Quixstar way of doing business.
Especially when there is so much evidence that AMWAY is not the way.
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#45 Consumer Comment

so much evidence that AMWAY is not the way

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

The real waste of energy is defending Amway.
Its a complete waste of ones life and efforts to pursue a Amway/Quixstar way of doing business.
Especially when there is so much evidence that AMWAY is not the way.
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#46 Consumer Comment

so much evidence that AMWAY is not the way

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

The real waste of energy is defending Amway.
Its a complete waste of ones life and efforts to pursue a Amway/Quixstar way of doing business.
Especially when there is so much evidence that AMWAY is not the way.
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#47 Consumer Comment

What I do. there is never a need to buy tapes/books on how to sell

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

My main biz is software devleopement, where I make anywwhere from $40,000 to $100,000 per year with the base income around $50,000.

On my sideline I am more successfull at it than I ever was back on Amway.

I actually sell products on the side, (kinda amway like)...

However, Ive been selling these products longer than I ever sold AMWAY.
These products I have been selling for 30 years.
I only did amway for 10. (twice for 5 years each).

For myself, there is never a need to buy tapes/books on how to sell, and that is the main way to make money with AMWAY.
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#48 Consumer Comment

Mike from Fairfax, you try to kill the dream in everyones else's heart

AUTHOR: Sean - (U.S.A.)

Since Quixtar is such a sham, what exactly is it that you do to make money. I can honestly share with you that I am currently employed in the methane gas industry, bringing in about $40,000 per year. You are not going to change my mind about Quixtar. Just because you find fault with something, you try to kill the dream in everyones else's heart. To me that is a true waste of enrgy. Why don't you funnel all this negativity into something that will benefit your family.
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#49 Consumer Comment

Go would never speak about amway/quixtar

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

God would never speak to anybody about the 'qualities or problems' about a amway biz.

Just like he never ever spoke as a '900'ft jesus to Oral Roberts... to build a faithbased hospital.

Especially since we already had two of them and didnt need a third faithbased one anyway.

First off, god would not tell u to get involved in known 'questionable' biz unless it was to 'help' shut it down.

Its a fact that Amway (in whatever form) is a scam.

Just the best scam going.

I myself, made good money on it, but in the early days, u could only make $$$ by selling to other members and also by ripping people off with the low quality of products Amway had.

Yes the products were cheap...
But like Walmart the products were cheap and not necessarily the best choice.

In fact, back then I could at times buy the same or similar products elsewhere and do better often. At least on quality.
Often the products elsewhere lasted longer, and by virtue of quality would end up cheaper becuase it would take less of it to use.

Some soap products took a lot more to do the same job than storebought anyway.

As far as modern QUixtaar, I have not noticed any value to make it worthwhile.
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#50 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Even the Devil can Quote the Bible...

AUTHOR: Debbie - (U.S.A.)

Jackye, I must agree with Mike on these issues. First , how do you know it was Jesus Christ who spoke to you? The meetings I attended where very "spiritual" in nature.

My Bible tells me to question/test my God to know the truth, may I suggest you question/test Quixtar to learn the truth. When you've learned you've been lied to, don't feel ashamed, share the experience.

Second, Talk to someone outside your "leg" with your up-line within earshot, let us know the reacton you get. Then ask why is it soooo taboo to talk to others about "the business"? Why are you seriouly discouraged from sharing your successes or failures with anyone outside your up-line? Why are you being isolated & only aloud to speak to cerain people? It reminds me of cult pratices. Why don't you compare the two?

Thirdly, people like Mike & myself got into Quixtar for different reasons, but we saw Quixtar for what it really is. Please add up all your expenses,books,tapes,meetings,gatherings,lunches,gas,product etc vs the amount of money you get at the end of the month. Be honest about it. If you do have the ability to buffalo others, may God help you. Debbie
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#51 UPDATE EX-employee responds

you haven't been exposed to Quixtar long enough to see through the brainwashing.

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

God bless you Jackye. I won't go so far as to say you are full of crap, but you haven't been exposed to Quixtar long enough to see through the brainwashing. Just remember the time honored quote: Even the devil can quote the bible.

Look, many of you don't believe what I've posted here and that's fine with me. Consider yourselves at least informed. Take that information and do with it what you will. I will sleep easier knowing that I at least tried to help you.

Just so you don't think I pulled my previous post out of my a*s, here is a link to a more credible source. It's a lawsuit filed against Quixtar for doing exactly what I claimed they do. If you are a current IBO and you don't want to be disillusioned, don't copy and paste this link. It WILL give you second thoughts about your current path. God Bless
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#52 Consumer Comment

Amyway or Scamway Response vs. Quixtar

AUTHOR: Jackye - (U.S.A.)

I am an IBO in the business and have been in for a few months now and have had nothing but positive experiences. Of course we all have our challenges.

Quixtar is a completely different company than Amway was. There business is run completely different. The practices of building the business follows a lot of scriptures in the Holy Bible. One of there 9 Core Steps is Honesty/Integrity. Hm, doesn't sound like you need to have bad morals to me to be in the business.

By the way, the Laundry Detergent (Powder) is concentrated. $24 for 150 loads of laundry, try comparing that to Publix or even Walmart - which by the way is another Distributor, but with a lot of overhead.

Also, regardless if I do become Diamond or I just make an extra $90 per month, I am still making money (not only spending it for stuff I need anyways), have tax benefits, and have the opportunity to associate around awesome people.
One last thing, the last time I checked the organizations didn't tie a roap around our necks and tell us that we had to be there or our business was cancelled. I am sure that even after I write this email, I am going to get a lot of negative responses and how I am full of Crap. I say, believe what you may, I know that my Lord, Jesus Christ directed me here, I know I am going Diamond, and I know that there isn't enough negative in the world that will keep anyone with a big enough dream from getting what they really want.

By the way in Quixtar, there are people who were already in the top 5% income bracket in the business, Financially free and also there is an awesome guy who used to be a Car Wash Manager who lived in a 700 square foot home, who took him 5 years to develop his business where he wanted it to go, and when he did he made over $800,000 the first year. So you tell me, 45 Years or 2 to 5 years or even a little longer?

I am selling out to the 2 to 5 year plan.
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#53 UPDATE EX-employee responds

You are seriously misguided, Sean

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

Sean from Gillette,

If by "education" you're talking about the motivational tapes, books, rallies and meetings, then you are seriously misguided. You tried to discredit my weekly meetings charge and my claim that your speakers are paid. That still leaves skimming off the tapes, skimming off the books, skimming off the rallies, etc. The oldest, lamest line in MLM is that you won't get anywhere without these important educational tools. Here's why...

When I got started, it was because I met a hot girl who was already into the Quixtar mindset. I hadn't heard about it, or knew anything about it, but I was willing to give it a chance to get into her pants (if you know what I mean). She became my upline. I thought it ridiculous that I should have to buy tapes since she already had 100 of them, and listened to them in the car every time we were together. I would just borrow hers. Do you think I was allowed to borrow hers? If you do, then I challenge you to ask your upline if you can just borrow his/her tapes and stop paying for them. Write back and tell me what response you get. If the "education" was so important, it wouldn't matter if I paid for them or borrowed them, would it?

In fact, I can already hear your reply..."Buying the weekly tapes is an investment in your business. It develops an ownership mentality, which you need as you become an owner of your own business. Are you telling me you can't scrape together a measly $5 a week to invest in your future and the future of your family?"

Sound familiar, you repugnant leach? I happen to have a crystal clear understanding. I understood that once I got to the other side of the curtain, I would make real money. Could I live with the lies it would take to do it? No, I could not. That is why I was not "successful". Ask yourself one final question. I'll type slowly so you can understand every word.....

Are you being lied too or are you yourself the liar?
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#54 Consumer Comment

Education on Quixtar

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

Hate to burst your bubble, but the most successfull within Quixtar getso by ripping others off.

If one is successfull outside of Quixtar its more likely due to leaving the concepts behind.

My own success is a direct result in ignoring everything I ever learned when I was in there.


Pretty much nothing here is misleading except for most of the 'positive-on-amway' comments.
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#55 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Who are these people that think that you will build a business without any education.

AUTHOR: Sean - (U.S.A.)

I have talked to several people that used to be a part of the organization who are successful now in a different industry, who associate their success now with the training that they recieved while in Quixtar. Who is going to weekly meetings that cost $5.00 each? We have no such thing. Who is paying the speakers to come? We do not. Our Diamonds come to help stimulate the local areas. Please stop the misleading information if you are too stupid to realize that you were not successful because of your lack of understanding. If you were 'successful'? Why did you stop?
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#56 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Quixtar defenders are either lying or ignorant

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

Every one of these posts only mentions half the story; that you make money in quixtar by buying goods and having your downline buy goods too. Well, that's only half the story. Ask yourself some questions:

1. How much do the weekly meetings cost? (about $5/person)
2. Why is your spouse expected to a. participate b. pay to attend meetings also?
3. How much do the monthly books cost? (about $7/book)
4. How much do the weekly tapes cost? (about $5/tape)
5. How much do the quarterly rallies cost? (about $75/each)
6. What happens if you don't purchase any of the above? (a guilt trip and subtle aversion from upline)

Math 101. Assuming the above rates and the aforementioned 1000 people for diamondship.

Weekly Meeting Revenue
1000 people x $5 = $5000 x 50 weeks = $250,000/year

Weekly Tape Purchase
Same math as above = $250,000

Monthly Book Club
1000 x $7 = $7000 x 12 = $84000

Quarterly Rallies
1000 x $75 = $75,000 x 4 = $300,000

Total Revenue outside of product sales = $884,000

More Questions

1. How much do the speakers at your weekly meetings get paid to "show the plan"?
2. How much does your "direct" skim off the top from the tapes you and your downline buy?
3. How much do the directs get paid to speak at the rallies?
4. Why is it strongly suggested that you don't talk to people who "lost their dream" and aren't in the business any more?

My direct didn't play ball with this system. He was offered something like $1/tape for every tape he sold. He broke the cardinal rule. He called a meeting of his whole downline (3 legs @ 3000pv each) and disclosed this to them. He explained how the skimming worked, that it was an alternate revenue stream that supplements the product sales, but that he would use all of that money to pay for the starter kits and the first month's purchase for any brand new distributors. We all thought that it was not only smart, but the way it was supposed to be done throughout the organization. He failed to mention that we shouldn't talk about it to the rest of the organization. Once other "directs'" downline learned about the skimming, they realized why they were being coerced into buying weekly tapes (bilked of $5 each) and why their wives were forced to attend meetings, etc. It started quite the riot, and our diamond nearly lost his organization (ours was the strongest direct in his diamondship, not including rubies, etc). He was excommunicated and a story was manufactured that slandered him to the group as a liar and a cancer. We were told not to associate with him. Wellllllll.....F that. He's still one of my best friends.

The problem with MLM systems is that they embed hidden revenue streams that bilk the lowest members out of their money without revealing it to them.

Legitimate my a*s.
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#57 Consumer Comment

Anyone who says the products were good quality is outright lieing.

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

As a former Amway distributor and user.

Its not true to say that amway products were of good quality.

Often there were not good enough to bother using.

I wont bother talking about the other issues about amway.

I was very succesfull with AMWAY but got tired of the low quality of products.

Anyone who says the products were good quality is outright lieing.
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#58 Consumer Comment

MLM works and works well. Besides that, Amway does have some of the best products

AUTHOR: Wanda - (U.S.A.)

I have been a distributor for Amway several times. I sincerely believe in the company and the products. Here is why. Two young boys understood the principle of MLM and built a very successful company. They could have done it in the conventional way, but had the unique belief that the profits should go to the people moving the product instead of advertising and other needless expenses.

It is truly up to each indivual, how far he can go. This is true in every aspect of life. But, as we all can't sing and dance, neither are all of us cut out for this type of business.

I have seen young people move up in the Amway line at a dizzying speed. How? They do know how to get people excited and to follow them. But there are many sincere honest people with this asset in all walks of life.

In my experience, the ones who got ahead were the most loyal and honest ones. Your downline has to be able to trust you, or you lose them.

MLM works and works well. Besides that, Amway does have some of the best products on the market. If some of the other companies had just made the same quality products, and sold them at comparable prices, Amway could never have become so big.

I never made it because any business takes a lot of time to build, and I could not leave my kids that much. So I guess I just didn't want it bad enough.
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#59 UPDATE Employee

Pyramid Schemes are illegal

AUTHOR: Sean - (U.S.A.)

Correction...

I made a mistake and said that Multi-Level-Marketing is illegal. I meant to state that Pyramid Schemes are illegal. I just wanted to clarify that before anyone else did. By the way, I clear about $500/month, after I purchase all of the training materials, which only consumes about 10 hours a month. Do the math, $50.00/hr in my spare time.
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#60 UPDATE Employee

the people that loose money in this business are not telling the truth

AUTHOR: Sean - (U.S.A.)

I am a Business Owner Affiliated with Quixtar.

I am writing this to let you know that the people that loose money in this business are not telling the truth when they state they "loose money." There are not any requirements for purchases. All purchases are made on your own and you can return anything for full reimbursment.

I believe that we as a people live in a society of blamers. If I can not do something it is their fault, never my own. My God, if that is how I acted I would be ashamed. But, if you hang around with those types of people that is how you are expected to act.

Sure, people affiliated with Quixtar tell you how good you are and that you can achieve anything that you dream about. But, what is better, having people tell you that, or have people around you telling you that what you are doing is senseless and wonder why you are trying that? Shame on you! People, especially friends and family should be supportive of what other people are doing as long as it doesn't break any laws.

Which by the way this not Multi-Level-Marketing, which is illegal. The Quixtar business model of business is completly legal because of the approval form the Federal Trade Commission, and the Supreme Court of the US in 1977.

I dare you to try something different and suceed. If you can't do it please grow up and point the finger back at yourself.
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#61 UPDATE EX-employee responds

BOTTOM LINE!! ..You have to keep motivated

AUTHOR: J - (U.S.A.)

I just want to say that I was involved in Amway about ten years ago when I was single and you know what? I didn't go anywhere with it. Do you know why? I didn't apply myself. That was not Amway's fault. Bottom line is that you get out what you put in and I don't mean money.

Plain and simple you have to talk to enough people and eventually you'll build your downline. You have to keep motivated about it and I didn't due to family members or friends or whatever.

It's just like real estate or insurance. How are you going to get started selling homes or get any clients without contacting people? It's all a big numbers game. Some will, some won't, so what? It's not an overnight moneymaker.

As far as prices go, yes they seem pricy but they are not telling you to go and buy a T.V. every month but my wife does spend that much money on shampoo.

Once again it's a simple plan but if you can't get out, make contacts and show the plan then you'll never go anywhere.
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#62 UPDATE Employee

Who is searching for answers

AUTHOR: The Answer - (U.S.A.)

I know a business. 250 time 12 months equals 3000 dollars a year. If you do not have anyone under you for whatever the reason 3000 is a lot of money to lose. Quixtar has created millionaires. However, their are millions of people in the business still stuck in the ruts.

Every business is a people business. I have seen the good and the bad when it comes to the business. People who talk about the the business just are not ready to make it work. If they could than go out there and find 1000 or what the number is and make it work.

I am a college student as well. For anyone thinking about quixtar as a business opportunity. You have to be prepared mentally. whoever puts you in the business is forced to be hard on you.

If he/she wants to grow that is how the business works. I do not agree with the total philosophy of the business, however, if you can find a way to make money than do it if not get out. You will only be wasting your time and everyone else's.
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#63 Consumer Comment

Not all business models are the same

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

What makes all you MLM guys think we like Wal Mart so much? I could gripe for days about Wal Mart. This leads in to my point: "business" is not "business." This statement asserts that all businesses are inherently the same in their value financially, ethically and socially. Some business models are more ethical than others. MLM is an inherently unethical business model. It is built on a mathematical system that requires a great number of people to lose money. MLM may, financially, be a good business model in that it generates a great deal of profits. It is a bad business model in that these profits are derived through the exploitation of hopeful distributors.

I don't blame the people who fail in MLMs for the same reason I don't blame people for losing money at a roulette wheel. Both are gambles wherein the player is at a significant disadvantage (statistically, you're chances are better at the roulette wheel). People who benefit from exploitative systems tend to blame the individual for failure, rather than examining the flawed system that may have contributed to that failure.

We laud companies like Microsoft because they have contributed to the economic and technological advancement of our society. Microsoft may not be the most ethical company around, but at least the people who work for them usually make money. I defy you to provide me the name of an MLM that simaltaneously benefits society and provides gainful employment to all those it employs.
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#64 Consumer Comment

Not all business models are the same

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

What makes all you MLM guys think we like Wal Mart so much? I could gripe for days about Wal Mart. This leads in to my point: "business" is not "business." This statement asserts that all businesses are inherently the same in their value financially, ethically and socially. Some business models are more ethical than others. MLM is an inherently unethical business model. It is built on a mathematical system that requires a great number of people to lose money. MLM may, financially, be a good business model in that it generates a great deal of profits. It is a bad business model in that these profits are derived through the exploitation of hopeful distributors.

I don't blame the people who fail in MLMs for the same reason I don't blame people for losing money at a roulette wheel. Both are gambles wherein the player is at a significant disadvantage (statistically, you're chances are better at the roulette wheel). People who benefit from exploitative systems tend to blame the individual for failure, rather than examining the flawed system that may have contributed to that failure.

We laud companies like Microsoft because they have contributed to the economic and technological advancement of our society. Microsoft may not be the most ethical company around, but at least the people who work for them usually make money. I defy you to provide me the name of an MLM that simaltaneously benefits society and provides gainful employment to all those it employs.
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#65 Consumer Suggestion

could this be a real business deal?

AUTHOR: Dale - (U.S.A.)

The great thing about the U.S. is the free enterprise system that our founding fathers handed down to us for their sacrifice. One of the worst things is that we have a govt that has no control on the "hype" people. Therefore we have to regulate ourselves on potential business ventures. Most people do not know how to analyze a business...there may have been no classes taken at wharton, flagler, kellog, or the other fine business institutions.

There is no difference between how money flows in multi-level marketing and traditional business. There is middlemen in each scenario. So, you have to consider which is the lesser or more of two perceived evils.(Since it such a crime to make money in the U.S.) There is a cost for shopping in the traditional markets and a cost for doing business in the direct selling world. You don't really think that Wal-Mart built those stores on pennies now do you?. So, with quixtar, a person is given a choice to operate INSIDE of the marketplace or not. I do not get the criticism of a company that has produced more millionaires than any other company than Microsoft. Please somebody tell me where it says in any of the literature put out by quixtar.com that a person has to do cute little cheers, or say those cute little dittys that are for excitement. (By the way, you do cheer at a ballgame though don't you? Now that is financially resourceful, isn't it?)....

A business is a business. Pure and simple. I own a business and I contract with quixtar.com to fulfill my ordering and delivery needs. I need no further self-motivation than my desire to not have a boss and have no limit to my earning potentials. Are there social clubs out there that use companies as their flagpole, yes and some people get sucked in to the folly. I do not consider it good or bad....it is just their deal. Much like Wal-Mart with their team song that is sang daily.(Would that be a cult, also?)

Why not lay off Amway and Quixtar and lay the blame on yourself when you fail. The business plan works......now, you may have had improper training, but that is not the supply company's fault. Just like it is not the university's fault if you do nothing with the college degree that you received from them. Many people graduate and cannot get jobs while others step out into slots right away and begin fast-tracking. Could it be the individual?
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#66 Consumer Comment

people are very willing to work hard if they see the opportunity

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

A report on the consumer awareness institute website shows that only .13% of Amway (it was Amway when the research was done) reps make money in a given year.

The other 99.87% actually lose money, or at least never recoup the money they make in product investments. Are we expected to believe that only .13% of society is willing to work hard and be "customer focused?"

If this was true we'd all starve to death. Next time an MLM rep tries to tell you that the only people who fail are the ones who don't want to work hard, ask them why the turnover rates in MLMs are generally tens of times higher than most other industries.

The truth is that people are very willing to work hard if they see the opportunity to make a good living, and they will even modify their personalities to be "customer focused." Most people realize that the opportunities to make money in an outfit like Amway are extremely limited and they jump ship before they waste too much time and money.
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#67 UPDATE Employee

people signed up with quixtar can make money

AUTHOR: Candice - (U.S.A.)

i am affiliated with qixtar and my opinion is that people signed up with quixtar can make money and if you arent customer focused and work hard you DON'T make money. You do nothing you make nothing. I myself do everything i can to help my downlines and my monthly check shows it. and about the products i havent had 1 problem. and if i did they offer to refund your shipping and what you piad, even if you buy lipstick and change your mind.

I have a friend that bought a pack of light bulbs and 2 were broken during shipping, he called the 1-800 number and told them his problem and they sent him a new pack free. when he asked what to do with the rest of the damaged pack they told him to keep it he will use it anyway.

thank you ,
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#68 UPDATE Employee

people signed up with quixtar can make money

AUTHOR: Candice - (U.S.A.)

i am affiliated with qixtar and my opinion is that people signed up with quixtar can make money and if you arent customer focused and work hard you DON'T make money. You do nothing you make nothing. I myself do everything i can to help my downlines and my monthly check shows it. and about the products i havent had 1 problem. and if i did they offer to refund your shipping and what you piad, even if you buy lipstick and change your mind.

I have a friend that bought a pack of light bulbs and 2 were broken during shipping, he called the 1-800 number and told them his problem and they sent him a new pack free. when he asked what to do with the rest of the damaged pack they told him to keep it he will use it anyway.

thank you ,
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#69 UPDATE Employee

people signed up with quixtar can make money

AUTHOR: Candice - (U.S.A.)

i am affiliated with qixtar and my opinion is that people signed up with quixtar can make money and if you arent customer focused and work hard you DON'T make money. You do nothing you make nothing. I myself do everything i can to help my downlines and my monthly check shows it. and about the products i havent had 1 problem. and if i did they offer to refund your shipping and what you piad, even if you buy lipstick and change your mind.

I have a friend that bought a pack of light bulbs and 2 were broken during shipping, he called the 1-800 number and told them his problem and they sent him a new pack free. when he asked what to do with the rest of the damaged pack they told him to keep it he will use it anyway.

thank you ,
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#70 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Amway/Quixtar

AUTHOR: debbie - ()

I found every word to be true. Please let people know that the new & improved Amway is now called Quixtar. Debbie

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#71 0

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