Charter One Bank NSF IS DUE TO CREATIVE ACCOUNTING, WE NEED A CLASS ACTION SUIT NOW! Toledo Ohio

Case: Gutierrez vs. Wells Fargo.  In this class-action lawsuit there are two separate class group. The Including-And-Deleting Class represents deceptive online balance and pending transaction information. The Re-Sequencing Class represents largest first posting order. Here are quotes of what the Judge really said when he decertified only the first class group:

''...plaintiffs expert assumed that every time any customer accessed his or her account online, or via an ATM, or in person (by visiting a teller window), he or she would have then learned and relied on the then available balance....It is easy to use an ATM without obtaining ones balance. It is easy to make a teller transaction without obtaining the balance. It is possible to consult an account online for reasons other than obtaining ones balance''

''This claim was originally sold to the Court as one in which the bank customer consulted the available balance between steps 1 and 2, noticed that a specific item had been subtracted, and then later consulted the available balance between steps 2 and 3 and relied on it without realizing that it looked larger than it really was due to the backed-out items. Now, however, plaintiffs seek to skip the first part and to broaden the claim to depositors who merely consulted the online balance between steps 2 and 3, whether or not they consulted it between steps 1 and 2. The damage study thus wholly ignores the very scenario that formed the basis for class certification.''

''For all of the foregoing reasons, the including-and-deleting class is hereby DECERTIFIED and shall not proceed as a class claim.''

The only reason the Including-And-Deleting Class was dercertified is because the Judge was legally obligated to do so. The plaintiff lawyers over reached by trying to broaden the scope of who might be affected from their original claim. The ruling had nothing to do with a check register and lack of customer responsibility. It was the fault of the lawyers, not the customers. Then the Judge ruled against the bank by upholding the certification of the second class group and that class-action suit is still moving forward. For the first class group's case, had the lawyers stuck with their original claim and not over reached in the middle of the game, it's likely that BOTH class-action suits would still be in progress.

Dave and everyone else wanting to sue:

Wells Fargo has decided NOT to settle and the first part of the case has already resulted in a good part of the class becoming decertified. The case is Gutierrez vs. Wells Fargo. In that case, the judge indicated that no one in the class utilized due care; meaning they failed to take the necessary steps like keeping accurate check registers, etc.... to keep the bank from taking their money. The odd thing is that this part of the suit should have won - because it involved the bank making posting errors in the online banking. The judge concluded that if the members of the class had lkept an accurate register, then the online error would not have affected them.

The second part of the suit involves resequencing or resorting, however if the judge rules in the same way as he did above using a due care provision, that class will also be decertified as well because nobody in that class used a register either and if they had, they would not have overdrawn the account, or at least would have seen the overdraft. This will put an end to the public being ripped off further by lawyers who sole benefit in a class action lawsuit is to rackup legal fees that the bank wont even pay for.

In a class action suit - the only winners are the bank and the lawyers. The losers are the public (who ends up paying more in fees) and the insurance company (who has to pay the legal fees from the E&O policy). It would be much easier to simply keep a register, stop using debit cards, and stop using online banking to figure out what your balance is.

Dear friends,
I too have had the same problems with Charter One bank and Washington Mutual, now owned by Chase. I asked for a supervisor and she couldn't have been more rude. She claimed that they do not put the big checks through first, letting the smaller ones bounce. I caught her in a lie and she changed her story by saying "We cash the largest check first because we feel it is the most important check to you." I even read about this scam in Home Journal magazine and couldn't believe that my predictions were 100% dead on! They will intentionally hold small checks for weeks until you write a large one, say, a mortgage check. They will cash the mortgage check, then, let the 5.00-10.00 checks bounce at 39.00 fees for overdraft, magically, all of them clear in the same day. In these economic times, the unscrupulous businesses come out of the woodwork, constantly looking for ways to rip off the consumer. I have found a law office that deals with these type of businesses and I would hope that every one of you write them and explain your situation. Hopefully, we can get a class action suit against them. In my research, I have found that many banks have been brought to justice on this issue. Usually, they want to settle out of court, so, they can keep ripping off other people. Here is the website www.lieffcabraser.com The full name of the law office is Lieff,Cabreser, Heimann & Bernstein,LLP
Thanks, Dave

First of all there is no need to belittle a person when they are down. These days a lot of us are in situations that cause us to do things we know are a little risky. Robert, thank you for your advice. I am still going to change banks, but I will use those rules in the future and hopefully have better results.

I have had similar experiences with Charter One. I own up to each overdraft that I have made. However, they have made some changes lately that have caused me to pay more than I feel I should have. There was a report on news recently about how banks are profiting from NSF fees (it's in the billions). I have watched my account online and saw the order of transactions change from one day to the next. When I asked about it, I was told to prove it, and of course I hadn't printed it out.

I would be interested in knowing the status of the complaints in Ohio. I live in Toledo. Feel free to contact me.

Thank you.

Lynda I live right up the road from you and bank at Charter One Lamberville, would you care to discuss this matter further?

if not a lawsuit, a major investigation. I seriously think something is going on, and I live right across the border from Toledo.

Several suspicious transactions, possibly false info told to me from said bank....

If you continue to have problems with this particular bank you might consider, though I am not telling you to, closing your account and investing elsewhere. I have noticed several suspicious activities on my account when I know for a fact that the card I am utilizing is NOT being used for transactor purchases. I have also been told that my balance was fine one day, not used the card for an appropriate period of time, only to find myself in the red the next day, payday.

Word to the wise, if you can't take the heat, get out while you can. But be wary. It might not be your fault either.

The reality is that using an account register and reconciling that register with a monthly account statement from the bank will prevent any account holder from causing any NSF/OD fees.

The majority (if not all) of the reports I've read about NSF/OD fees have common behaviors of the account holders:

using atm cards for everyday purchases.
using more than ONE card attached to the account (husband and wife)
using atm cards for online purchases.
using atm cards for 'auto-bill pay' (autodebits)
relying upon telephone or online account balances to determine what money is available for that shopping trip to Walmart.
*NOT using an account register.
*not reconciling an account register with the scheduled account monthly statement generated by the bank.

Ways to avoid these NSF/OD fees:

1. Use an account register and reconcile the account register with a monthly written statement generated by the bank. If the bank is not mailing statements, contact customer service to have monthly statements MAILED to you.

1a. Be aware of ATM fees, such as the 'non-bank ATM fee' that most banks charge when you use an ATM that is not owned by your bank to make a withdrawal and post that fee in your account register immediately.

1b. Also be aware of any monthly 'account service fee' charged by your bank and post that to your register on the appropriate date.

2. Do NOT GIVE bank account information (or ATM card info) to any merchant, service provider, utility, online service to pay for services and goods. Use a REAL credit card for this purpose (either secured cc or unsecured cc.) Do not setup any automatic deposit to an account that is attached to said cc-NO auto payments to CC company-mail a check each month. If the entity demanding payment makes a mistake, you're gonna have a host of problems and risk OD/NSF fees.

3. Do NOT use an ATM card for everyday expenses-USE CASH. Establish a monthly budget and withdrawal a weekly 'allowance' for every day expenses such as 'milk and bread' from the corner store, Burger King, etc. This will reduce the amount of transactions on the bank accout which in turn makes RECONCILING the account and detecting ERRORS easier to accomplish. Again, if the entity demanding payment makes a mistake, you're gonna risk NSF/OD fees.

4. Do not shop with the ATM card-use a real credit card. A real credit card offers protections that you don't have with an ATM card. If the merchant/service makes a mistake, you can dispute it with the CC company WITHOUT getting any OD/NSF. Not true if you use an ATM card-if the merchant makes a mistake, your money is gone until you can convince your bank to give it back, as well as OD/NSF fees.

5. ONLY ONE ATM CARD to one account. Do NOT have 2 or more atm cards for one bank account. Having 'his and hers' ATM cards attached to the same account is the same as in the old days when some folks would have 2 checkbooks for writing checks. It was an invitation to disaster then, and it is today.

6. Verify that deposits to the account have actually cleared. Deposits can take anywhere between 1 and 5 BUSINESS days to clear depending on the type and/or source of the deposit.

Follow ALL of these suggestions and you will NEVER pay an OD/NSF fee again unless it is a LEGITIMATE bank error, and then the bank will gladly and quickly rectify the situation and credit any fees generated as well as contact payees and cover any fees the payees assess to you.

This is a tried and true method to avoid these fees. It works EVERY TIME it's tried.

The reality is that using an account register and reconciling that register with a monthly account statement from the bank will prevent any account holder from causing any NSF/OD fees.

The majority (if not all) of the reports I've read about NSF/OD fees have common behaviors of the account holders:

using atm cards for everyday purchases.
using more than ONE card attached to the account (husband and wife)
using atm cards for online purchases.
using atm cards for 'auto-bill pay' (autodebits)
relying upon telephone or online account balances to determine what money is available for that shopping trip to Walmart.
*NOT using an account register.
*not reconciling an account register with the scheduled account monthly statement generated by the bank.

Ways to avoid these NSF/OD fees:

1. Use an account register and reconcile the account register with a monthly written statement generated by the bank. If the bank is not mailing statements, contact customer service to have monthly statements MAILED to you.

1a. Be aware of ATM fees, such as the 'non-bank ATM fee' that most banks charge when you use an ATM that is not owned by your bank to make a withdrawal and post that fee in your account register immediately.

1b. Also be aware of any monthly 'account service fee' charged by your bank and post that to your register on the appropriate date.

2. Do NOT GIVE bank account information (or ATM card info) to any merchant, service provider, utility, online service to pay for services and goods. Use a REAL credit card for this purpose (either secured cc or unsecured cc.) Do not setup any automatic deposit to an account that is attached to said cc-NO auto payments to CC company-mail a check each month. If the entity demanding payment makes a mistake, you're gonna have a host of problems and risk OD/NSF fees.

3. Do NOT use an ATM card for everyday expenses-USE CASH. Establish a monthly budget and withdrawal a weekly 'allowance' for every day expenses such as 'milk and bread' from the corner store, Burger King, etc. This will reduce the amount of transactions on the bank accout which in turn makes RECONCILING the account and detecting ERRORS easier to accomplish. Again, if the entity demanding payment makes a mistake, you're gonna risk NSF/OD fees.

4. Do not shop with the ATM card-use a real credit card. A real credit card offers protections that you don't have with an ATM card. If the merchant/service makes a mistake, you can dispute it with the CC company WITHOUT getting any OD/NSF. Not true if you use an ATM card-if the merchant makes a mistake, your money is gone until you can convince your bank to give it back, as well as OD/NSF fees.

5. ONLY ONE ATM CARD to one account. Do NOT have 2 or more atm cards for one bank account. Having 'his and hers' ATM cards attached to the same account is the same as in the old days when some folks would have 2 checkbooks for writing checks. It was an invitation to disaster then, and it is today.

6. Verify that deposits to the account have actually cleared. Deposits can take anywhere between 1 and 5 BUSINESS days to clear depending on the type and/or source of the deposit.

Follow ALL of these suggestions and you will NEVER pay an OD/NSF fee again unless it is a LEGITIMATE bank error, and then the bank will gladly and quickly rectify the situation and credit any fees generated as well as contact payees and cover any fees the payees assess to you.

This is a tried and true method to avoid these fees. It works EVERY TIME it's tried.

The reality is that using an account register and reconciling that register with a monthly account statement from the bank will prevent any account holder from causing any NSF/OD fees.

The majority (if not all) of the reports I've read about NSF/OD fees have common behaviors of the account holders:

using atm cards for everyday purchases.
using more than ONE card attached to the account (husband and wife)
using atm cards for online purchases.
using atm cards for 'auto-bill pay' (autodebits)
relying upon telephone or online account balances to determine what money is available for that shopping trip to Walmart.
*NOT using an account register.
*not reconciling an account register with the scheduled account monthly statement generated by the bank.

Ways to avoid these NSF/OD fees:

1. Use an account register and reconcile the account register with a monthly written statement generated by the bank. If the bank is not mailing statements, contact customer service to have monthly statements MAILED to you.

1a. Be aware of ATM fees, such as the 'non-bank ATM fee' that most banks charge when you use an ATM that is not owned by your bank to make a withdrawal and post that fee in your account register immediately.

1b. Also be aware of any monthly 'account service fee' charged by your bank and post that to your register on the appropriate date.

2. Do NOT GIVE bank account information (or ATM card info) to any merchant, service provider, utility, online service to pay for services and goods. Use a REAL credit card for this purpose (either secured cc or unsecured cc.) Do not setup any automatic deposit to an account that is attached to said cc-NO auto payments to CC company-mail a check each month. If the entity demanding payment makes a mistake, you're gonna have a host of problems and risk OD/NSF fees.

3. Do NOT use an ATM card for everyday expenses-USE CASH. Establish a monthly budget and withdrawal a weekly 'allowance' for every day expenses such as 'milk and bread' from the corner store, Burger King, etc. This will reduce the amount of transactions on the bank accout which in turn makes RECONCILING the account and detecting ERRORS easier to accomplish. Again, if the entity demanding payment makes a mistake, you're gonna risk NSF/OD fees.

4. Do not shop with the ATM card-use a real credit card. A real credit card offers protections that you don't have with an ATM card. If the merchant/service makes a mistake, you can dispute it with the CC company WITHOUT getting any OD/NSF. Not true if you use an ATM card-if the merchant makes a mistake, your money is gone until you can convince your bank to give it back, as well as OD/NSF fees.

5. ONLY ONE ATM CARD to one account. Do NOT have 2 or more atm cards for one bank account. Having 'his and hers' ATM cards attached to the same account is the same as in the old days when some folks would have 2 checkbooks for writing checks. It was an invitation to disaster then, and it is today.

6. Verify that deposits to the account have actually cleared. Deposits can take anywhere between 1 and 5 BUSINESS days to clear depending on the type and/or source of the deposit.

Follow ALL of these suggestions and you will NEVER pay an OD/NSF fee again unless it is a LEGITIMATE bank error, and then the bank will gladly and quickly rectify the situation and credit any fees generated as well as contact payees and cover any fees the payees assess to you.

This is a tried and true method to avoid these fees. It works EVERY TIME it's tried.

They don't file the Class Action Lawsuit for the same reason they don't manage their account. That would be "work" and they want everything handed to them without having to put forth much effort.

Why is it that so many people post here about wishing to join a class action lawsuit? Why don't they start the lawsuit?

Linda, please let me know if you have contacted a lawyer regarding a class action suit for this situation as I am from Cleveland Ohio and am having the same issue with the Charter One I bank with. This is very important to me as well, so if possible please respond.

You're wasting your time with an attorney and an auditor. The banks have their own outside audit firms that verify a sample of transactions and there is never a time where the audit firm will find a bank out of complaince with their T&C's. If you have an attorney, whatever you do - don't pay him anything upfront because the attorney is trying to scam you on a deal he knows will not net you anything.

I also think your ignorance of how a bank works also shows. For example, you complain that when you take money out of an ATM, the money is removed immediately, but when you make a deposit into it, it takes 2 business days to post to your account. If you REALLY gave any thought to this, you know it makes sense. When you take money out of the ATM, you are removing LEGAL TENDER from the ATM. It is verified money coming out of your account. Unless you're stupid enought to deposit cash into an ATM - your deposit is NOT considered to be LEGAL TENDER for use - it is a negotiable instrument that is conditional tender to you pending the validity of the check. It doesn't become available to you until its verification as legal tender to you is established. That isn't automatic.

Nobody in government is going to do anything for you; not the Congress, not the Senate, and certainly not the President. A small minority of the bank's revenue is associated with NSF fees; they make money on the interest people pay on loans, credit cards, etc.... The fact you hand your money to the bank is of little matter here - you happened to make a choice in overdrafting your account and it was your choice eventually that led to your overdraft situation. If you still wish to look for blame, find a mirror in your house and look into it. There you will find the real culprit here. Any bank that refunds any NSF fees to a customer is performing a service I would never do if I ever worked at a bank - in the past, present, or future.

Spending more money than you have is where the 'creative accounting' comes in. No one made you spend the money you didn't have.

"..I had a check go through that I forgot about.."
- How did you forget about it..Ummmm? You know just like an Elephant a Check Register never forgets either.

"..I made an online purchase at 10:00 pm and the transaction went thru that night. It put a hold on my money causing a so called overdraft.
- So lets see you make an On-Line purchase at night putting you into Overdraft. Yes it was an authorization, but one that YOU authorized because you wanted to make a purchase. Yet it is the bank's fault?

"..The news could not do anything and I have not heard from our President..."
- Thanks for the great laugh..yea when the President calls please let us know what he says.

By your own admission you overdrafted your account twice. No matter how hard you try you can't beat money back to the bank. Writing down transactions takes a just a minute. Isn't it worth 1 minute of your time if you can save even one overdraft fee of $39?