Report: #1402305

Complaint Review: Chase Bank

  • Submitted: Mon, September 25, 2017
  • Updated: Mon, September 25, 2017
  • Reported By: Ranchlife — Millersview Texas USA
  • Chase Bank

    Nationwide
    USA

Show customers why they should trust your business over your competitors...

I will never do banking or credit card services with Chase again. I purchased a product that arrived defective when we started to use it, and notified the RSE Fabrications immediately of the defects. In short they refused to take it back, and after 3 months of waiting Chase has not given us a permanent chargeback and gave him a credit back for the full amount according to the rep.  Chase has never notified us of the reversal and never allowed us to review or rebuttal it. We need the money to purchase a similar product from a different manufacturer, but can't until we get a refund that is real.

This was an expensive Rock Picker, and for me to spend $4500 on an item and not to work is devistating to me, and for Chase to tie up my funds to find another type machine, in criminal socially. This company does not deserve to exist. I am an old rancher, and don't have much money, and for them to allow me to charge back this defective and broken item is a castrophe for me. [continued below]....

.....

These guys are scum of the earth. If you can avoid them, as they will disappoint you at some point in time. I got burnt by them this time, but I will not allow a second time. Back to American Express and Discover. Chase you can kiss me where the sun don't shine.

Is this Ripoff Report About you?
Ripoff Report A business' first line of defense on the Internet.
If your business is willing to make a commitment to customer satisfaction Click here now..

Does your business have a bad reputation? Fix it the right way. Corporate Advocacy Program™

Set the record straight: Arbitration Program

SEO Reputation Management at its best!

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 09/25/2017 04:10 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/chase-bank/nationwide/chase-bank-chase-credit-card-services-fake-customer-support-i-understand-is-a-fake-res-1402305. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

Search for additional reports

If you would like to see more Rip-off Reports on this company/individual, search here:

Report & Rebuttal
Respond to this report!
Also a victim?
Repair Your Reputation!

Updates & Rebuttals

REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
10Author
13Consumer
0Employee/Owner

#1 Author of original report

Settled Dispute / Merchant Agreements

AUTHOR: - ()

There was a permanent credit issued, however, do to paperwork errors or delays to notify me, I was not notified of a decision that was made some time ago. I can accept that as an excuse because the number of chargeback has to be unbelievable.  Chase Credit Card Services has made me whole, therefore I withdraw my complaint, with a few exceptions:

  • "I understand" is a canned statement that annoys the hick out of me
  • Customer Service is evasive to direct questions which would have avoided the rip-off report all together, as this was the only chargeback I had with Chase among the multiple cards that I have with them over the years

Here is a good spot to mention that if the trolls are using rip-off report for a college assignment for extra credit attempt to push down this comment as to prevent others from learning of the information below, I will simple start a new rip-off report in order to insure that readers, if any, are aware that his dispute has been settled and that these are  true examples of Merchant Agreements with the Chargeback Conditions. Now understand these are Merchant agreements and are NOT Credit Card holder agreements.  Ultimately, you have to convince the CC Service like Chase, and the Merchant process (normally you don’t know who that is) that your argument is valid and true to insure you don’t defraud the Merchant.

The trolls for the banking industry that keep on attempting to negate the facts it really shows that you really no little about credit card industry and “Merchant Agreements” as shown below.  A "breach of contract" ( example: Ordered new but used was delivered), "false advertising" (advertised Full Warranty, but failed to provide written one or execute warranty claim ), "defective or non-functioning product", and in some cases, "was not as advertised", or “wasn’t as described”  are legitimate chargeback reasons.  However, you must prove any of these statements to the satisfaction of the Bank card services, and or to the Processing Center of the Merchant.  Unlike, the trolls that say the credit card services center can be sued is incorrect There are clauses in the merchant agreement that says that cannot sue them for their Chargeback decisions, and that they have the right to chargeback items of questionable transactions.


Here is the Chargeback section (company name deleted to avoid any legal issues) to a typical merchant agreement (i) is maybe the reason for a cardholder chargeback approval in this case.

14. CHARGEBACKS
The Company shall have the right to charge back to Merchant’s Account the full amount of any Sales Draft, if, but not limited to, any of the following occur:
a) The Sales Draft or any material information on the Sales Draft, such as, without limitation, the account number and/or expiration date of the Bankcard, Merchant description, transaction amount or date, is illegible or incomplete, or is not delivered to The Company within the required time limits.
b) The Cardholder’s account number was listed on the then current Electronic Combined Warning Bulletin and Merchant did not reject the transaction or receive prior authorization for the transaction.
c) Except in the case of an MO, EC, TO, or PO Transaction described in Paragraph 8, the Sales Draft does not contain the imprint of a Bankcard that was valid, effective and unexpired on the transaction date, or the signature of the Purchaser.
d) The transaction was one for which prior credit authorization was not obtained or improperly obtained, or a valid authorization number is not correctly and legibly printed on the Sales Draft.
e) The Sales Draft is a duplicate of an item previously submitted or is one of two or more Sales Drafts generated in a Single transaction in violation of Paragraph 10.
f) The Purchaser disputes the execution of the Sales Draft, the sale, delivery, quality, or performance of the merchandise or services purchased, or alleges that a credit adjustment was requested and refused or that a credit adjustment was issued by Merchant but not posted to the Purchaser’s account.
g) The price of the merchandise or services shown on the Sales Draft differs from the amount shown on the copy of the Sales Draft delivered to the Purchaser at the time of the transaction.
h) The Company reasonably determine that Merchant has violated any term, condition, covenant, warranty, or other provision of this Agreement in connection with the Sales Draft or the transaction to which it relates.
i) The Company reasonably determine that the Sales Draft is fraudulent or that the related transaction is not a bonafide transaction in Merchant’s ordinary course of business, or is subject to any claim of illegality, cancellation, rescission, avoidance, or offset for any reason whatsoever, including, without limitation, negligence, fraud, or dishonesty on the part of Merchant or Merchant’s agents or employees.
j) The Sales Draft or Credit Voucher was not received by The Company in a timely manner. Merchant may not

A second example of a merchant's agreement Chargeback section:  See section “f”. Note here that this contract is even more vague, and allows more latitude to the Credit Card Processor against the Merchant.

7. CHARGEBACKS.

7.1 Chargeback Reasons. Merchant has full liability for all Chargebacks. Following are some of the most common reasons for Chargebacks:

(a) Merchant fails to issue a Refund to a Customer upon the return or non-delivery of goods or services;

(b) A required authorization/approval code was not obtained;

(c) The Transaction Data was prepared incorrectly or fraudulently;

(d) Paymentech did not receive Merchant’s response to a Retrieval Request in accordance with Section 6;

(e) The Customer disputes the Transaction or the authenticity of the signature on the Transaction Receipt, or claims that the Transaction is subject to a setoff, defense, or counterclaim;

(f) The Customer refuses to make payment for a Transaction because, in the Customer’s opinion, a claim or complaint has not been resolved or has been resolved in an unsatisfactory manner; or

(g) The credit or debit card comprising the Payment Instrument was not actually presented at the time of the Transaction or Merchant failed to obtain an electronic record or physical imprint of such Payment Instrument, and the Customer denies making the purchase.

Respond to this report!

#2 Consumer Comment

Websites

AUTHOR: Robert - (USA)

Since you obviously are ignoring anything that has to do with the actual warranty claim it just goes to show that no matter what anyone says you will to your dying day think that chase is 100% responsible for the situation you are in. But with that here are some things for you...

I don't think that there is much more that one can say when you find a website called suechase.org

There isn't? How about telling people what the site is about. That site is to get people to contact a group of attorneys about mortgage lending issues. Not a single thing about credit cards.

But guess what this same group of attorneys has additional sites(they may have more I just stopped there)
suewellsfargo.org
suebofa.org

In all of your searching did you ever look for sites disparaging to Discover or AmEx? My guess would be no as that would destroy a good portion of your argument.

Well just in case you had trouble finding some..
ctyme.com/discover/
amexsux.com/

Yes this is just two, and yes I am sure you will give some excuse why they aren't valid sites. But given time all of us could find many more sites on just about ANY bank you name. Now, the difference between these sites and the site you gave. These sites are not run by attorneys.

I would perfer consumer to just troll the internet for stuff on Chase, like that had to remove their arbitraton clause from their agreements because consumer only won 1.6% of the time.

Oh you mean this.....
reuters.com/article/us-credit-cards-arbitration-decision/consumers-lose-u-s-appeal-over-credit-card-arbitration-clauses-idUSKCN0T82E920151119

In short it states that Chase along with others voluntariy removed their arbitration clauses in 2010...Both Discover and AmEx REFUSED to remove their clauses and in 2015 the Court upheld the decision that they could keep them in. Notice it does state that in 2010 they agreed to remove them for 3 1/2 years. Now, yes they are coming back and as of now are currently in the cardholder agreements in Chase as well as Discover and AmEx.

I will be back with more information on Chase.
- Perhaps your time would be better served by opening your mind and being impartial in your search to be more critical of other banks as well.  

Respond to this report!

#3 Author of original report

SUECHASE.ORG -- WHAT?

AUTHOR: - ()

I don't think that there is much more that one can say when you find a website called suechase.org.  WOW! I had this long script to add here, but I thought that I would perfer consumer to just troll the internet for stuff on Chase, like that had to remove their arbitraton clause from their agreements because consumer only won 1.6% of the time.

So, I am gong to search the net for more fun stuff to say about my experiences with Chase Credit Card and Banking Services. For the trolling that must not have a life, I look forward to YOUR WRONG. My accronym for the paid banking trolls is simply PBT. So if I say PBT, that is them, and if you see a response this weekend from them, they don't have to many things to occupy them, including mates.

GO TO SUECHASE.ORG

Sorry, I can't stop laughing, you got to go suechase.org.  I will be back with more information on Chase.

Respond to this report!

#4 Consumer Comment

Seems the US Supreme Court Agrees With Me

AUTHOR: Jim - (USA)

In the case of WalMart vs. Dukes, over 1.5 million women were trying to sue WalMart over gender pay discrimination.  In 2011, the court 5-4 that the plaintiff failed to show the proposed class (that's 1.5 million women) failed to show that they have a common question of law or fact.  As a result, the individuals are now forced to individually sue WalMart.  In addition, they could not even sue for monetary relief under the rules governing class action suits.  As a result, the time plaintiffs now have to carry out is now so bursdensome to determine commonality, that many class action attorneys now cite that filing a class action suits are becoming an almost impossibility.  It's one of the reasons why class action suits are now far less common.  Being defrauded by Chase, as you claim has happened, is going to be an impossible task because the research to determine commonality would take lawyers hours they could never recoup through the class action process.  A Chase lawyer could determine each of you were defrauded in a different way, and there goes your commonality.

Let the world know if you wish about Discover and AMEX - Personally I love my AMEX Blue card, their rewards program, and their customer service is second to no one.  I bank with an entity worse than Chase, so I don't care about them either.

Best of luck to you...

Respond to this report!

#5 Author of original report

Consumer Protection - Discover Card/ American Express

AUTHOR: - ()

 Class Action Attoreys May disagree.......... The point of the suit is to make the Giant Corporation pay for its sins against the very society that made them rich. not to make you rich personally. I don’t care if it is 10 years down the road, if it costs them $10 million and I was out $4500, I did well. I sound like a socialist, but I am not. JP Morgan according to there own statements new that the mortgages bundled were no good, if I can redistribute the tax payer dollars then I did good. They still have to pay a premium to the insurance company. I don’t want to profit from the bad deal I got in, but after 10 + years of doing business and never filing a Chargeback, yes, I expect so loyalty. Obviously, Discover Card and American Express feel different then you. Thank God for that. I can assure you that Chase is aware of all points of the Chargeback including the fact that there is a pattern that the manufactures follows that ended up forcing the BBB to down grade his rating to a C-. They were scrubbing their website until they got caught, and then they started reporting the filings. What they are reporting now is a piece of what was filed. There are things that are available to Chase that are not mentioned here. Your job simply is an attempt to discredit what ever I have to say. I simply will post my stuff elsewhere to insure people are aware that Discover Card and American Express have better “Consumer Protection Policies”. and continue to rebuttal your rebuttals.

Respond to this report!

#6 Consumer Comment

Wrong..

AUTHOR: Robert - (USA)

I just know I am out $4500, and the next vitim of credit card transactions using Chase can be you.

- You are out $4500 but not because of Chase. While it is obvious you will never see it otherwise, the only reason you are out
is because you are failing to pursue any action against the party that is truly responsible..if they are actually responsible(see below).

The sad thing is that you don't even seem to want to try. You have made a very good case for the Courts.  Perhaps just a well worded letter to this company using these same points would be enough to get them to be agreeable.

But in reviewing your comments, I am hesitent to post this as I really don't want to prolong this as we do get your points. However, there is one interesting item about the actual Warranty claim as it may explain quite a bit as to why you are pushing hard with Chase.  You claim the product was DOA. That is NOT exactly true, it was operational but failed when you put it under load.  DOA denotes you could not even attempt to use it.

The question now becomes what was the load or job it was rated for, and were you attempting to exceed that or use it in a different way?  These are questions, while you will say you did not exceed or use it in a different way, are questions to be decided on by a court of law NOT a Credit Card company.

For example say you have cable rated for 10,000 lbs, but you put a load of 15,000 lbs and it fails. This is NOT a warranty issue this is an issue of you attempting to use it outside of it's capacity.

You may say well it "should" have handled the load, but they may say that they never stated or guraanteed it would handle the load you gave it...that disagreement is exactly why Chase and yes most credit card companies would stay out of it.


In the end though..good luck to you

Respond to this report!

#7 Consumer Comment

Class Action Lawsuits Are A Waste

AUTHOR: Jim - (USA)

First, you need to figure out whether you even have a class of similar people available who have been defrauded such as yourself.  I suspect your individual cases are so different, a court would not allow a class to be certified, let alone a case, because of the lack of commonality amongst your various situations.  That would apply against Chase, rather against the manufacturer, only because I really doubt the manufacturer has sold enough product to warrant a class action case.

 

Second. the benefits of a class action lawsuit accrue only to the lawyers prosecuting the case, and that's standard.  The classic example of a class action case was when BofA was sued over inadequate disclosure over how the bank posts NSF fees in the account agreement.  After 9 years (and sometimes that's how long the case will take), BofA settled the case for a little less than $10 million (actually their insurance company settled the case), the lawyers received $4 million, and each member of the class received a choice of (a) receive $27, or (b) drop from the class and try to sue...9 years later.  I think there were other banks that were sued, including Chase, with similar results.  In any case, many took the $27, even though they were out hundreds, if not thousands of dollars.  Meanwhile BofA submitted the claim to their insurance company under their E&O policy and paid the deductible on the claim, which I think was about $250K.  There is no such thing as the right attorney prosecuting a class action case because the time to prosecute and prevail take years, assuming you get that far.  You may as well look for unicorns; you'd be more successful at that.

 

You're trying to go the cheap route so you don't have to incur the legal fees associated with a lawsuit.  That's fine, but you don't accrue the benefits for the case either, as anyone who has been a member of a class action suit will tell you.  The lawyer collects the funds from the agreement, and you get nothing.  If you want to go the cheap and effective route, you can still pursue a case in small claims against the manufacturer, pay a few dollars to process in the county courthouse, pay a little more to have the sherriff serve the documents to the manufacturer, and then, if you've been truthful to this point, prevail and win not only against the manufacturer, but collect the fees for filing and serving, plus if you have to buy a new piece of equipment, you can generally sue them for the difference between what you paid for the old one and the replacement unit.  The only way you couldn't win against the manufacturer, is if you haven't been truthful.

 

 

Respond to this report!

#8 Author of original report

GO to DISCOVER / AMERICAN EXPRESS REPLACEMENT'S

AUTHOR: - ()

Regardless of the amount of comments Jim (USA) makes, here is one think certain, Discover Card has Consumer protection policies. Joe (USA) makes it clear that he has charged back large purchases for the same basic reasons.  So again, where Discover card may have your back, Chase does not, so Jim (USA) would make you beleive. Jim (USA) claims not to work for Chase, so we really don't know what Chase Banks true position is, but for sure Jim (USA) trolls for the banking system with their interests, not yours at the meat of all rebuttals.

I just know I am out $4500, and the next vitim of credit card transactions using Chase can be you.  

Banks representing Visa/MasterCard brand have a variety of policies for charge backs, so if you use a bank card make sure you have a clear understanding of the chargeback limits and rules. I have now selected to use the bank cards with Visa/MasterCard brands only on small purchases, and only retail stores, restaurants, and All interstate purchases are through either Discover Card or American Express as they are the best with Consumer Protection Policies. Chase credit cards go into my draw of "do not use this banking or credit card services".

Jim (USA) say you can include the bank in your suit over my issue with Chase here - He is well, not well!

CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS: With the right law firm, and the millions of people that have been wronged over the years, I would love to sue Chase if I could do it in a Class Action Lawsuit. It takes thousands of hours for a law firms just to put a case together to get it heard by a judge which needs to review it to see that there is sufficient evidence to make it a class action case, So if you think that you can include Chase in your little petty "breach of contract" like the rebuttal says, forget it. Your attorney will not have the time. It is better, just not to do business with any of the JP Morgan business like Chase Banking Services.  Why? It is a top down business model. The top dictates the actions and policies of the subsidiary companies it has in its' portfolio. Just remember the "BANK BAILOUT" and all things will be clear regarding banking.

Now that Jim (USA) got my attention I will repost my comments on the internet, not just ripoff reports. Congratulations Jim (USA) you got my attention, and now I know I am onto something here because of you relentless efforts to discredit a valid complaint I know there most be more to the story then meets the eye. Your boss will be please that you have forced me to expand my horozon.

 

Respond to this report!

#9 Consumer Comment

Wrong Again - Twice

AUTHOR: Jim - (USA)

I have talked with actual attorneys, and they say that if Chase knows of the breach of sales contract (we are talking about a sales invoice here), and there is sufficient evidence involved of advertising fraud (and there is) and a breach, then Chase should walk away from it by charging back the transaction  The problem is that you think you have proof.  You don't - I mean you think you do, but you don't.  Certainly, the manufacturer doesn't think you have adequate proof of anything, which is why they haven't authorized an RMA or a refund for you.  Chase has lawyers too and here is what they see:  We have your word that the machinery doesn't work, and they have their word that the machinery was fine, or at least it was when it was delivered to you.  If Chase were to refund you, the manufacturer would have a case against Chase and their merchant for issuing an unauthorized refund.  So long as there is a dispute between you and the manufacturer, Chase is going to stay out of it.

He is wrong and this is why. If I order a Blue Mercedes and a Red Mercedes arrived at the house, was the Order Completed, and was the Contract fulfilled. NO.  Sounds like you've never bought a car before - I think most people don't even need a legal background to answer this question.  You're correct - the answer is NO, but for an entirely different reason:  Lack of Possession.

If you order a car from Mercedes, title doesn't pass to you upon delivery of the vehicle to the dealer.  Title of the car passes to the dealer upon delivery from the manufacturer.  The dealer owns the car.  Part of an automobile contract requires you to look at the car, expressly confirm it's what you want, and move forward with the title transfer - including any financing.  If a red Mercedes shows up when you ordered blue, you are not obligated to take possession of the vehicle, since it isn't yours to begin with!!  You have not taken title of the car!  Auto dealers don't ship cars directly to the buyer because of the legal paperwork, registration, title transfer, etc...associated with the purchase of an automobile.

When you bought your Rock Picker, it was probably shipped FOB Destination, which means you took title of the machine upon delivery.  You don't have to register it, take title of it, etc...  It's yours upon delivery.  That's the difference.

Respond to this report!

#10 Author of original report

Discover Card & American Express as Alternative Cards

AUTHOR: - ()

Here is what next - Banks representing Visa/MasterCard brand have a variety of policies for charge backs, so if you use a bank card make sure you have a clear understanding of the chargeback limits and rules. I have now selected to use the bank cards with Visa/MasterCard brands only on small purchases, and only retail stores, restaurants, and All interstate purchases are through either Discover Card or American Express as they are the best with Consumer Protection Policies. Chase credit cards go into my draw of "do not use this banking or credit card services".  IF CHASE DECIDES TO ISSUE ME A REFUND AT SOME POINT I WILL UPDATE YOU WITH THE RESULTS, but it doesn't look good.

Discover card and American Express have the most consumer protection, and Chase (JPMorgan) have the least based on the bantering I had with either trolling attorney, college student, or. paid firm that simply goes around defending the poor policies of rich companies like Chase (JP Morgan). If I new he was an licensed attorney for sure, I would say so, but I don't so you can only take the information presented as a limited representation of the "rights of the consumer". Remember, attorneys for banks always make it your fault.

I have talked with actual attorneys, and they say that if Chase knows of the breach of sales contract (we are talking about a sales invoice here), and there is sufficient evidence involved of advertising fraud (and there is) and a breach, then Chase should walk away from it by charging back the transaction. This removes them from the potential lawsuit that can take place. RSE Fabrication has no defense, because RSE is not really the Merchant Account Holder, simply a dba running under the primary, and the owner of RSE Fabrication to my knowledge is not on the merchant account.

Note here that  I am not free to keep the defective merchandise, and that I would have to allow him to pick up his property. That has already been done, he simply refuses to take it back, or issue an RMA. This unit weights 1350 lbs. so he would have to order the pickup. Most consumers like me don't have accounts with large trucking companies. This is a commercial load.

Lets' Review: If a bank like Chase is made aware of a "breach in sales contract/invoice", and they decide to pay the merchant anyway, then that are a party to the breach in this case. Chase is aware that the sale was incomplete as far a I ordered a new machine, I got one that didn't work. Chase is  aware that "false advertising" is involved.  Chase is aware that RSE Fabrication used his wife's Merchant account to push through the transaction, as sometimes small businesses do, and they are aware that RSE Fabrication told me to fix it myself.

If I remember my college years, if I didn't get the product ordered, then that would be an incomplete sale, that voids the need for the bank to pay the merchant. The troller says that I got it, but it didn't work. So his point is that I got the merchandise ordered. He is wrong and this is why. If I order a Blue Mercedes and a Red Mercedes arrived at the house, was the Oder Completed, and was the Contract fulfilled. NO. At this point I am free to order the STOP PAYMENT OF A TRANSFER OF FUNDS ORDER (on wire-transfers they must be stopped before excution -non-reverseable). A breach of contract is then "isolated" between the seller and purchaser, and they are free to sue each other. Chase is out of it by removing themselves from the picture. They identified that there was a "breach of contract" and the seller needs to defend himself in court if he wants to be paid. The seller has no defense here, so if he were to sue Chase Credit Card Services the case against Chase would be thrown out of court. Here we must assume that Chase did a through investigation

CHASE (JP Morgan) Look:  If you remember the later years of George W. Bush, and first months of Obama, the $87  billion dollar "bailout" for the banks times 2, and others was a result of companies like JP Morgan selling "bundled mortgages" that appeared to be good, that were actually "bad". I remember one statement for JP Morgan that somewhat went like this: "They are investors that bought the bundled mortgages, then new the risks". "They were to big to fail" was just one pure and obvious lie.  It was simply just a scam from Wall Street to milk American Tax Dollars from the system. but JP Morgan got at least a $1 billion dollars of American tax dollars.  The best insult to Americans all over was when JP Morgan give themselves Million dollar bonuses after the government mailed them the bail out money. So, when dealing with JP Morgan companies don't expect honesty.  I didn't get any, so don't you expect too either. And remember, until the chargeback is permanent you really SHOULD NOT ALLOW YOURSELF to spend the money because you might have to pay it back. That money is simply a place holder so you think you are getting your money back

CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS: With the right law firm, and the millions of people that have been wronged over the years, I would only sue Chase if I could do it in a Class Action Lawsuit. It takes thousands of hours for a laws firm just to put a case together to get it heard by a judge which needs to review it to see that there is sufficient evidence to make it a class action case, So if you think that you can include Chase in your little petty "breach of contract" like the rebuttal says, forget it. Your attorney will not have the time. It is better, just not to do business with any of the JP Morgan business like Chase Banking Services.  Why? It is a top down business model. The top dictates the actions and policies of the subsidiary companies it has in its' portfolio. Just remember the "BANK BAILOUT" and all things will be clear regarding banking.

Respond to this report!

#11 Consumer Comment

Wrong Again

AUTHOR: Jim - (USA)

Here is where you go wrong:

 

Did the merchandise recieved (received) meet the interstate commerce rules regarding implied warranty. NO THEY DO NOT, therefore, there is NO SALE because the item shipped didn't meet the "Fitness for a particular purpose" definition of the law.  Wrong.  Without a sale, you don't have a contract and without a contract you can't apply any expressed or implied warranty provisions, nor would the ICC apply.  What you have is a breach of contract by the manufacturer.  I keep telling you your action should be against the manufacturer.  That's a civil matter between you and the manufacturer.  The CC company is not a part of that civil matter unless you want to sue them as well.  In fact, this situation would be the exact reason why a CC won't get involved.  Their position is to stay out of it until something is decided.

 

 

Therefore, NO LIGITIMATE (legitimate) SALE TOOK PLACE. This SALE is VOID OF CONTRACT because it fails to meet implied warranty laws, and the credit card company must refund the money because I DID NOT RECIEVE (receive) the merchandise that I ordered.  You absolutely received the merchandise - I believe you even took a picture and placed it on the site for the world to see.  The fact the product failed to meet warranty statutes means the manufacturer is in breach of the contract.  I mean what you defined is exactly what a contract breach is.  The fact there is a breach of contract doesn't mean there isn't a contract and no court would agree with that spin.  I'll say it again, this is now a civil matter between you and the manufacturer.  The CC company is not a part of the civil matter unless you want to sue them as well, which you can.

 

No Contract because it failed to me Implied Warranties No Salebecause it failed to meet implied warranty No Credit Card Charge because the merchandise recieved failed to meet implied warranty laws.  I'm not completely sure what this statement says, but without a sale, you don't have a contract, and without a contract, you can't apply either the implied warranty rules, nor can you apply any of the ICC statutes.  They both only apply when there is a contract.  I believe both you and the manufacturer have copies of the sale contract, so to say there was not a contract when you both have one in writing is.....wrong.

 

 

Chase owes me the money, and maybe I will never see it, but this Rip-off report willl warn other that Chase can't be trusted to honor contract law and  implied warranty laws.  Actually, the manufacturer owes you the money, not Chase.

 

 

 

 

 

Respond to this report!

#12 Author of original report

Implied Warranty and Contract Laws - Your Wrong

AUTHOR: - ()

PRODUCT: DOA (Dead on Arrival-Didn't Work)

  1. As stated earlier, the product was broken when it arrived because it was improperly assembled and welded. There were missing set screws that cause the unit to break instantly when put under load.
  2. I am not aware of any state that does not have a 30 return policy and all retail strores I deal with honor it especially when the product DOES NOT WORK.
  3. The 3 year warranty is a seperate issue is not germain to the chargeback, it is only proof that the merchant sold a product under false pretense.
  4. Because the consumer uses a credit card, does not negate his rights to return the product if it is broken, defective, or non-operational. Implied warranty laws apply here.
  5. Texas law (as an example/similar to all states ) imposes certain implied warranties on the sale of goods, regardless of whether the warranties are mentioned in the contract.  In particular, Texas law creates the warranty of “merchantability” and the warranty that the goods are “fit for a particular purpose.”

    Merchantability

    The implied warranty of merchantability requires goods to be merchantable.  Merchantable means the following:

    1.  pass without objection in the trade under the contract description;

    2.  in the case of fungible goods, are of fair average quality within the description;

    3.  are fit for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are used;

    4.  run, within variations permitted by agreement, of kind, quality and quantity for each and all units;

    5.  are adequately contained, packaged, and labeled as the agreement may require;  and

    6.  conform to the promises or affirmations of fact made on the container or label if any.

    Thus, whether express or implied, warrantying the merchantability means a seller warrants that its goods will possess each of the foregoing qualities.

    Fitness for a Particular Purpose

    The implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose applies to a sale of goods if the seller knows or has reason to know the buyer will use the goods for a particular purpose.  Unless disclaimed (more on this below), a seller with such knowledge (or reason to know) impliedly warrants that the goods are suitable for that particular purpose.

    Disclaiming the Implied Warranties

     Sellers of goods often do not realize they are making such implied warranties.  In many circumstances, sellers may not want to make any such warranties.  This is especially so, if the seller is a distributor rather than the manufacturer.  A distributor may wish to assign the manufacturer’s warranty rather than make any warranties itself.

     Fortunately for sellers, the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose may be modified or disclaimed.  However, to do so, the disclaimer must be in writing, conspicuous (e.g., bold and all caps) and specific (i.e., it must mention the specific warranty to be disclaimed rather than disclaiming warranties in general).   Prudent distributors and other sellers should include such disclaimers in their terms and conditions.

     On the other hand, buyers rightfully often want some type of warranty.  If the proposed agreement disclaims the foregoing implied warranties, then the buyer should take care to ensure it is receiving a warranty of acceptable scope from someone in the chain of distribution of the goods.

  6. In this case, I just asked for a replacement that was welded and assembled correctly, but the Merchant refused to issue an RMA, or refund.
  7. Hence, implied warranty law applies here to determine if a legal sale took place.
  8. Did the merchandise recieved meet the interstate commerce rules regarding implied warranty. NO THEY DO NOT, therefore, there is NO SALE because the item shipped didn't meet the "Fitness for a particular purpose" definition of the law.
  9. Therefore, NO LIGITIMATE SALE TOOK PLACE. This SALE is VOID OF CONTRACT because it fails to meet implied warranty laws, and the credit card company must refund the money because I DID NOT RECIEVE the merchandise that I ordered. 
  10. No Contract because it failed to me Implied Warranties No Salebecause it failed to meet implied warranty No Credit Card Charge because the merchandise recieved failed to meet implied warranty laws.
  11. Chase owes me the money, and maybe I will never see it, but this Rip-off report willl warn other that Chase can't be trusted to honor contract law and  implied warranty laws.

So if you want to yell LAW, LAW, LAW because you are a lawyer, fine. Implied warranty and Contract laws apply here. NO SALE TOOK PLACE UNDER THE LAW and therefore the consumer cannot be charged for the merchandise. A sale under the eyes of the law DID NOT TAKE PLACE.

Your other comments are not germain to this discussion, so I won't bother to address them. One more thing, say hi to JP for me.

 

Respond to this report!

#13 Consumer Comment

Got it...

AUTHOR: Robert - (USA)

No I get your point..it is just wrong.

As for why I am going back to Discover card and AMEX is because I always rotate my cards. This just causes me to update my rotation, and delete Chase from rotation.

- So regardless of how good a company's customer service is you will at some point just decide to stop using them to give another card a chance so you are fair to everyone...okay got it.

That being said, credit card holders are at least informed that 1) banks will give merchant account to bad business, 2) they don’t care about those individuals that they Service. and 3) being a great customer means nothing.

1) You are assuming that this companies merchant account is with Chase. What proof do you have of this?

2) Where does this "caring" stop? Your claim is that since they are not honoring their 3 year warranty Chase must give you your money back.  So at 2 years and 9 months when the item fails and the company refuses to repair/replace it.  Is Chase still responsible? As the only thing that has changed is time so why would be any different?

Thanks to "Joe" for this little bit and his Walmart example. Let's say this part died 3 years and 1 month. Is Chase still responsible because a part "should" last longer and it is just outside the warranty period?

3) Why should it mean anything. By your own admission at some point you would have stopped using them to move onto another card.

As a consumer, it is not about the law, its about the service and respect for those that bring busines to merchants and Chase Banking Services. Consumers do not think like lawyers, we buy on impulse or need.

- How consumers purchase items has no relevance in this case. For example go try and buy a car and then decide the next day you can't afford it and try to return it.  Anyways, what you are really saying is that the law does not matter. A credit card must protect the consumer from themselves and do what ever they want to be satisfied...got it.

BTW back to "Joe".  For every "chargeback" story you have that succeeded, you can search and find stories of ones that the credit card denied the chargeback.  For your story of multiple successful disputes, you will find stories on people that have had their accounts closed because they did too many disputes and were seen as a higher risk.  

Respond to this report!

#14 Author of original report

Chase Wins You Loose

AUTHOR: - ()

Mike and Robert (USA) just miss the point, It is about informing the public not to trust Chase Credit Card Services on their face value, or for that manner any banking system thanks to your legal minds.

Informing the Public

In this case, Chase, as you so eloquently point out, does not have the legal obligation to have your back. They do not, and will not have your back and will not give you a refund in this case. That being said, credit card holders are at least informed that 1) banks will give merchant account to bad business, 2) they don’t care about those individuals that they Service. and 3) being a great customer means nothing.

 

Question to you

Part of your response seems like you personally are so outraged about the complaint, that you want to make sure that I have no chance of getting a refund and if it is up to you, and it maybe, you will see too it I don't get one. My question, is why? As a consumer, it is not about the law, its about the service and respect for those that bring busines to merchants and Chase Banking Services. Consumers do not think like lawyers, we buy on impulse or need. I never expected to get into this bad deal; who would? He has a merchant account and the banking systems checks that stuff; right? WRONG, as I see now.

 

Why do business with a Bank

If Chase wants me too look at them for $500k or $5m secured business loan, then simply they better be customer oriented. They are not and regardless of what you think, that is what I look for in a banking business relationship, and so should everyone else. 

 

Your patner's Question: DISCOVER CARD Chargeback approval

By the way, I asked my neighbor and the Discover charged back approximately $2450.00 for the same thing, product dead on arrival.  So your partner's response of a $500 limit is misleading.

 

Your partner's Question: What happened before to Discover card?

As for why I am going back to Discover card and AMEX is because I always rotate my cards. This just causes me to update my rotation, and delete Chase from rotation. I won’t do business with a bank that does not back its cardholders regardless of the laws that allow the bank to escape liability or responsibility.  And at some point, 49 years down the road, if and when I run out if credit card services to switch to, then I will save a lot of money from avoiding those online purchases. God Bless us All!

 

Appreciation

That being said, you guys were quite helpful in the law, and I appreciate it.  In this manner we all learn something, and Ripoff Report continues to provide the public a genuine service.

Respond to this report!

#15 Consumer Comment

Jim You are Wrong once again

AUTHOR: Joe - (USA)

The whole point of Credit Cards advertising consumer protection is to protect the consumer.

The credit card companies will intervine and will refund the money and back charge the seller... The more I've shoped online the more I've had to take advantage of the credit cards consumer services.
Disocover and AMEX are the best 2 I've delt with.

Citi is ok. I have to charge back an Air Conditoner to Wal-Mart of all the places becasue 10 days after the return period the item failed and Wal mart wouldn't return or exchage it. So in that case the item was defective and Citi charged it back and refunded my money.

Amazon example I bought an item through Amazon from a 3rd party seller. The seller didn't want to exchange the Item. Discover charge back and refunded my money. I've had to do this a few times infact becaseu the cosumer has no protection when purchasing things over the interenet and when and item is shipped from 600 miles away it's the manufactures responsibility to sell a good item or take it back.

Respond to this report!

#16 Consumer Comment

In this case

AUTHOR: Robert - (USA)

I'll just come out and say it since it is what you want to hear so you can figure(incorrectly) that we are just a bunch of evil bankers.

In THIS case, and I am talking only about this case, they do not have a responsibility to give you a Chargeback. There are certain rules that govern when a Chargeback can be done and this is not one of them.  Again, I am not, and I don't think Jim is saying you don't have a case, but your case is against the Company..not the bank. So you can sit here and complain all day about the bank and get nothing, or go after the company and perhaps get all your money back.

Yes it would be great if Mr. Big Banker would come down from their Ivory Tower to your rescue against the evil company but that is just not reality.  Again if other credit cards will rescue you then perhaps you should go with them.  But then again you said you were going to go "back" to them. So one has to wonder why you left them in the first place if they were so good?

As for the timeline. You filed a dispute and as part of the DISPUTE process they issued you a temporary credit while they investigate..that is STANDARD. They didn't give you an instant denial.  Do you think you are the only person disputing a charge?  It takes time to investigate and see if it a chargeback is warranted. In your case they denied your dispute after several months.

Respond to this report!

#17 Author of original report

So Chase Has No Obligations to the Cardholder

AUTHOR: - ()

First, the bank issued a temporary refund, but was it intended to mislead the credit cardholder. As of this morning, after over 90 days of "were thinking about it" the final decision sets in limbo. So, then why would a bank issue a temporary refund, keep it open for over 90 days, if according to you, they will not issue a refund. Is it to mislead the consumer into thinking they are helping and then, BANG, you spent the reversal, now you owe us another $4500. Is it to make more money off the credit card holder?

Who is responsible, but the banking industry to police their merchant accounts, and remove those merchants from the system to insure safe commerce. This company, RSE Fabrication used his wife's merchant account, to put through the transaction, according the the company and bank.  He was on the account, but was he reviewed by the reviewers?

If the Chase bank did nothing then they are saying is ok. So then, the temporary credit can easily be viewed as an attempt to decieve the consumer into thinking that "were woking on it," and in fact, according you your statements, the will not help. So now we see that the merchant defrauded the credit cardholder, and the bank continues to decieve the credit cardholder, knowing all along they don't have to do anything.  It's PR for the Bank, "We tried", Horary!

Can we assume that the banking industry doesn’t care if he/she mis-represents the product he/she sells as long as the cardholder pays the bill, because the banking industry has no legal obligation to make sure that those merchants that accept charge cards are legitimate and don’t miss represent products or services. According to you under the law and there are no placeholders in the credit card industry to protect the cardholders from merchants that mis-represent their products, as long as they produce revenue for the banking industry.

Only a Lawyer wants you to sue. Unfortunately for those with interstate transactions getting screwed suing isn't always an option. People believe like me that the bank has some responsiblity to insure that fraud doesn't occur by policing those who are given the priviledge of having a merchant account. The merchant is in Kansas and I am in Georgia, so do you really think that I have the ability to file in Kansas. In small claims you must file in the county that the person you are suing lives. That is a very fair and righteous law. Now, you need a real lawyer don't you, and it will cost more then $4500. And you don't think the lawyer is going to bleed the consumer dry as well? Really?

Well, that is exactly why Ripoff Reports exist. It purpose is to allow consumers to make other consumers aware of the limitations and misleading information of a product or service, like in this case, credit card usage. As you so clearly stated, consumers are mislead to believe that the banking industry is their friend. When it comes to money, all bets are off. I was lead to believe that they would reverse the charge, now after 90 days they don't know what to do. A temporary credit is not a final credit to the account. In my case, I just let it set there, but how many people would have spent it? And after several months the average person would have spent the temporary charge back.  

My hopes is simply that the buyer beware of my mistakes, and consider other options besides buying interstate commerce because even though I might be able to file a brief, most people cannot afford an attorney to sue the merchant, and of course, time is money.

I am glad Ripoff Report exists because it allows those interested into knowing the danagers of Chase Credit Card Services, and others companies like RSE Fabrication.  I hope that this complaint helps others, along with your excellent comments how the laws work for the banking credit card industry, but not the consumer, and how a temporary credit can be a false sense of security.

Respond to this report!

#18 Consumer Comment

You're Claiming Breach of Contract

AUTHOR: Jim - (USA)

Let's take your points one at a time:

"If you falsely advertise an item in order to entice a sale, and the product and warranty are falsely represented as in this case, the consumer is entitled to his money back.".  So go to the manufacturer and get your money back.  That's who your contract is with.  The company CC cannot and will not refund you for a manufacturer's false advertisement.

"So I will assume you work for a bank and the bank is never responsible for anything, but taking your money."  No one here works for a bank.  We simply know the laws governing these transactions - plain and simple.  BTW people who don't like the answers they read here use that excuse.  No one likes hearing the truth.

"There are also implied warranty laws that generally state the same across all state lines, and that is upon recent (receipt?) of the item it has to be as advertised."  Again, that only would apply against the manufacturer, not the CC company.

"A while back my neighbor had a similar problem, but Discover card charged it back after their review without issue, and it was done within the 60 day window."  AMEX has a similar warranty program, however both are limited programs - meaning they're only good for purchases up to $500.  Even if you had a Discover card, your situation would not apply because of the amount of the purchase.  Here is the link in case you don't believe me:  https://www.discover.com/credit-cards/member-benefits/shopping.html

Chase has a bank rating of 2 1/2 STARS are (on??) the bank review sites, because Chase has obviously made a point of bad customer Service across all it’s Services, Iam not surprised.  Many people know very little about banking, credit cards, etc....consider yourself part of that population.  I don't bank at Chase, but then most banks are the same.  They all pretty much deserve the same rating...  

The rest of your post is irrelevant....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Respond to this report!

#19 Author of original report

Your wrong Again - Most States Allow an individual to return a defective or non-working item within 30 days.

AUTHOR: - ()

 Your simply wrong. If you falsely advertise an item in order to entice a sale, and the product and warranty are falsely represented as in this case, the consumer is entitled to his money back. This is interstate commerce and there are certain expectations that have to be meant to be a valid sale. So, if advertised as high quality, tested before being shipped, and covered by a Full Three Year Warranty, and it isn’t, then the product was sold under false pretense and the sale is null and void. So I will assume you work for a bank and the bank is never responsible for anything, but taking your money, There are also implied warranty laws that generally state the same across all state lines, and that is upon recent of the item it has to be as advertised. The bank looses nothing here, but in my case any future business, and these are not small purchases, luckily I found out before using my Chase card again. Chase has a bank rating of 2 1/2 STARS are the bank review sites, because Chase has obviously made a point of bad customer Service across all it’s Services, Iam not surprised. A while back my neighbor had a similar problem, but Discover card charged it back after their review without issue, and it was done within the 60 day window. Make all the excuses why it is the consumers responsibility, but people use their credit cards on out of state transactions because they feel that there is some kind of protection (and there is), and you are saying screw the consumer, let the bank make more money no matter how it is accomplished, even at the expense of your client being screwed. Well back at you.

Respond to this report!

#20 Consumer Comment

Incorrect

AUTHOR: Robert - (USA)

There is no law or regulation that says you can be given a charge back if a company fails to provide a warranty claim. You have what is basically a "quality" issue and is rarely covered by credit card companies.

I am not saying you don't have a case of advertising or warranty "fraud", but I'm not saying you do either. I am saying that it is not the responsibility of the credit card company to decide a situation like this. Credit Card fraud protection covers things such as a charge you did not authorize or not receiving an item you paid for. In your case you did authorize it and you did receive it. Your complaint is the condition you received it in and that is NOT covered.

Some, but not all, credit card companies extend your ability to dispute a charge to include various "quality" issues. But even here it is not through a "dispute" but through the claims process for that program. But unless you have something in writing from Chase that says they cover warranty issues you really don't have a valid disputable claim. So yes if you have other credit cards that will provide you better "protection" then you should use them. Just be very sure of what they will and will not cover.

Your only recourse now is to deal with the merchant. You say they refused to take it back? Was that in violation of their policy? Did they offer to fix it? Did they offer ANY solution? If you are not satisfied with their response then unfortunately your last recourse may be a lawsuit against them. yes, this will cost you time and money. But for $4500 you are still within most states Small Claims limit and you can generally recover the costs you incurred in addition to the original cost of the item if you prevail.

Respond to this report!

#21 Consumer Comment

Incorrect

AUTHOR: Jim - (USA)

Advertising fraud, as you put it, would be irrelevant against a credit card challenge.  The only fraud the CC company would cover is if (a) you never signed the contract, or (b) if someone else who was not your authorized agent signed the contract representing you.  Advertising fraud, as you put it, is actionable only against the manufacturer; after all, that is what you claim they did.  The CC company would look at the contract agreement, see you signed it, and they consider the matter closed.  In other words, the CC only warrants the contract was entered into willingly by both parties and certainly you've provided enough evidence of that in your postings, and so has the manufacturer. 

The warranty you indicated in the follow up response, again, is only actionable against the manufacturer, not the CC company.  It's now important to understand the more time you waste against the CC company, the more excuses you give the manufacturer to not provide you a refund.  Based on your follow up claiming advertsing fraud as you put it, your only action is to go to court.

Respond to this report!

#22 Author of original report

You are Wrong

AUTHOR: - ()

 RSE FABRICATION company used the words Full Three Year Warranty, and used the CC industry to rip off customers. The product was defective upon delivery, and failed to honor the Full Warranty. By law, this is advertising fraud, and the consumer has full rights to a chargeback because the manufacturer made false advertising claims in order to get a sale.

Respond to this report!

#23 Consumer Comment

I Would Not Expect A Refund

AUTHOR: Jim - (USA)

You're trying to use the CC company as leverage against the manufacturer.  It doesn't work that way.  The only way the CC company would provide some type of refund is if there was fraud perpetrated at the time the transaction was entered into.  There wasn't fraud according to your report (you entered into the contract with them, they delivered product, and the product was defective) and if there is no fraud, you really can't act against the CC company.

 

Your action should be against the manufacturer of the product and I would file a small claims suit for the full amount of your product plus any additional damages you incurred (i.e. interest on a loan to buy the equipment) in order to get the product to you.  Once you file and they're served, I would bet they correct the situation.  If they don't, and the equipment is pretty defective, you'll get your $$ back and then some.

Respond to this report!
Ripoff Report Recommends
ZipBooks Accounting Software

Advertisers above have met our
strict standards for business conduct.