COOKIES CHARMS SHIH TZU DON'T EVER GIVE HER YOUR DEPOSIT!!! BRASHEAR Texas

Jess...wow...it had been a while and I'd forgotten all the details now till I read this all over again.  I still stand by my belief that frances should have given me my full refund back.

You say she's a great breeder, well good for you...to me she's ripped me off and I want everyone to know that if they make any dealings with Frances..there's a chance that she may not honor her word.  And if after reading my post they still want to do business with her, then they would be better off having her write everything she says and signing them.  ( Because I was naive then, I didn't do that, and now I know better)

You say no reputable breeder gives back any refund...then Frances shouldn't have told me that she was going to.  At that time, there was no mention of "no refund" on deposits in her contract and also nothing about hernias being not covered by the health guarantee...(So I guess..according to you..her contract was not decent).  After that incident I did see that she's added those info on her website.

I guess you still don't understand what really happened after reading all the info I mentioned above.  She didn't really hold the puppy for me the extra two weeks....she was going to...but after everything....I told her Dec. 22 I wasn't going to buy the puppy.  The date the puppy was ready to go was Dec. 26 and she did say there were several people lined up to get her.  Like I said, I based all my decisions on what she's told me.  I know she's your friend, but next time please learn all the facts before calling someone names. 

You talk about me being classless..yet your arguments have no validity.  She told me she wasn't going to send my full refund as agreed, and then she wrote, "have a great day!".  My response was "I wish you miserable days for the rest of your life".  I was mad and I'm not sorry I said that..I just spoke what was on my mind.  But then when I think about it, I really don't want anybody to be miserable for the rest of their life.  So me mentioning my disease was just an explanation, not an excuse.  So now you understand Ms. Jessy?  =P

Please note..I never called Frances any names or obscenities.  All I wrote were just facts and my feelings towards what happened.  I understand you want to defend your friend but you don't need to be calling me names.  If you want to defend her... fine.. but defend her by stating facts and what your opinion is of her...not what your opinion is of me. =)

And oh, please feel free to write some more invalid arguments.  I think the more people post here the longer this web page stays on top of the search engines.... so... thank u ms jessy!  =P

I have known Frances for 7 years as an acquaintance.  While I have never purchased a puppy from her in my years of breeding, I know for a fact that she has some fabulous dogs and some very good bloodlines and colors.  The only reason I never purchased from her is that her whelping schedule, and my buying schedule were always different! I have only heard great things about her from those who purchased a Shih Tzu from her and from other breeders that she has/had done business with.  You are honestly the first complaint I have ever heard about her.

As a previous breeder of both Imperial and Champion bloodlined Shih Tzus, I can tell you that Frances takes excellent care of her dogs and is honest.  NO REPUTABLE breeder gives back ANY refund on a deposit.  It clearly states on any decent contract that refunds are non-refundable.  The only thing that you would be able to do if you had been in contact with any other breeder besides Frances, would be to transfer your deposit to another puppy.  There would also be a list of things in that contract you signed that are not covered by a health guarantee, hernias being one of them. 

Personally, I find it appalling that you requested a puppy to be held for 2 extra weeks, and then back out.  Frances, doing what a good breeder does, went and got YOUR puppy her second set of shots/etc which is not cheap, and told the WHOLE truth about your puppy so you could make an informed decision.  She did not have to do that.  If she didn't tell you, you would not have known until after you took the puppy to the vet.  That is what unscrupulous breeders do.

That $50 she kept might have covered that vet visit.  Maybe...

Sadly, you showed how classless you are by bring in your disease and claiming that it made you say something crude and uncalled for.  That would be similar to someone beating their child for talking back and saying "well, you made me do it by making me mad".  Seriously???  Or blaming PMS on why you were screaming obscenities at someone.  No one and nothing controls your actions and words but YOU. ;)

I also want to make it clear that you never offered me $50 off. Never did, not even upon learning that she will need the surgery. That night you first told me about her hernia, you said , "Dr. Black said it's no big deal that you can just have her hernia fixed at the same time you have her spayed." But you didn't offer any discount then. Upon finding out how much it'll cost me then I asked you to give me that much discount off. You said you'd only give me $50 off. Why why??????????? Why not $60. That's how much it'll cost me. We could have avoided all this problem. I felt then that there's something weird or not right about this deal. So when you said you'll give me my refund I decided to just back out. When I did, you never mentioned about just giving me half. Then you emailed me again Dec. 25 wishing me a merry x-mas, no mention of the deposit. Then you emailed me again De. 28 asking for my address, again no mention of just the $50 refund. I just don't understand. The day you told me you just sent $50, I was so upset I tried to reason with you to give me back my full refund but there's no changing your mind. Then you emailed me and sent me all this stuff about shihtzus and hernias, I didn't need those. I already spend countless hours reading up on this. Then you wrote.."Have a good day". What kind of mockery is this? You ripped me off of $50 and you said "have a great day!". I don't usually say stuff like this but was really ticked off by this mockery and with my Grave's disease flaring up, I wrote that I wish you miserable days for the rest of your life. I didn't really mean this. I really wouldn't want to wish another person to be miserable for the rest of their life. Specially when most of my wishes do come true.

I still think you should have given me my full refund.

Oh Frances! That was trying to please me???? With what??? I sent you the deposit within a week. I refused the puppy because you wouldn't pay for the cost of the hernia getting fixed. I can take my money somewhere else to a reputable breeder and spend the same or less.

Yes you told me about the hernia the day of the vet check, but you even admitted to me that you thought before she had this but you weren't sure so you waited till then to tell me. If you had a suspicion before, you should have said so already, so that I would have started to make my decision earlier in case she did have a hernia, which she did.

You offered me first choice of your available litter but they were all black and white! The reason I was gonna get that puppy in the first place was because I wanted red and white and her mom looked cute on the picture. You offered me another one from another future litter in which the mom is the sister of the mom that I liked, but you offered that after you already sent the $50! Of course I was already mad then for your sneakiness so I knew I never ever would want to get a puppy from you EVER again. And "better pedigree?" You said the one i was getting had 52 champion lines between her mom and dad and the one you were offering when I was already ticked off had 27. You know you really don't make sense Frances. Like I said in my other entries ( don't recall if it was here) you're statements contradict each other! When I said "it's not my fault the puppy had a hernia that I gotta fixed", you said "it's not my fault either. But then the first couple of days we we're talking about the hernia, you said, "it's my fault really, I should have done this blah blah blah", I don't recall the details but you were saying it's your fault that she had the hernia. Something about you did or didn't do while she was coming out of her mommy.

I told you I'd like to get her and said I couldn't get her before Jan 10 because I'm leaving for California on the 3rd, you said that that was no problem, with no mention of inconvenience to you. Hey I thought It was okay that you'd spend more time with her and you didn't say anything about a shot that she was going to get. Why are we even talking about this? I told you Dec 22 I wasn't going to get her. You told me there was a list of people ready to get her. And you said she was bought right away by another person. So you didn't really keep her for me for between Dec 26 and Jan. 10 because technically she's not mine anymore, again because you wouldn't pay for the hernia repair YOUR VET said she needed.
You know you're right, hernia's may or may not be hereditary, other vet say this and other vet say another. But I gotta go with one diagnosis right? And since your vet is the one that looked at her, he would be the most qualified person to listen to right? That's why you recommended that I call him right? And now I'm sure you wish you didn't. No it's not life threatening at that moment but she's small she's gonna get bigger and there's always a chance that it could get bigger and does cause intestinal strangulation. Bottom line-your vet said it's gonna have to be fixed surgically. As a buyer I'm gonna take his word, and not say..."OHHHH SHE'LL BE FINE, SHE DOESN'T NEED ANYTHING", because I'm just a regular person and I'm no vet.

You talk about extra time spent and inconvenience, what about my extra time spent and inconvenience. Did I ask you to pay me for that?
You have nothing in your contract about having no refunds on deposit if buyer is dissatisfied with the puppy or the deal. You have something about refund policy if the puppy is taken home and within three days having to take it to the vet to check for life threatening diseases. But NOTHING about deposits and hernias
.
Yes you may have made other costumers happy and that is why you were probably too proud to honor YOUR WORD and give me back my full refund. But an agreement is an agreement. Specially between a buyer and a seller. Doesn't matter how happy you've made them in the past. Almost all puppies make new owners happy. We'll I don't have a puppy to make me happy and I feel like I've been cheated by another person who I trusted.

Anna

I made every effort possible, to please Anna. The deposit was postmarked 11/5/2008, the puppies' were born 10/31/2008. Umbicial hernia's cannot be detected until the puppy is 5-6 weeks of age. I offered Anna $50 off the price of the puppy she chose, due to the small umbilical hernia the puppy had. Anna refused my offer (of $50 off), she said since I wouldn't take $60 off she did not want the puppy. I called Anna on 12/19/2008 the day the puppy had her Vet check and, told Anna about the umbilical hernia. I have offered her first choice for a girl puppy out of the next litter, which will be of equal value, quality and will have a better pedigree. In the first e-mail about the puppy, Anna informed me she was going to California and, she wanted to pick up the puppy 1/10/2009. The puppy was ready to go to her new home 12/26/2008. I did this for her convience, this was an additonal expense on my part. The puppy had to have another shot, wormings and, extended care. I sent her information on umbilical hernia's, common in the Shih-Tzu breed, (as well as other breeds and common in puppies'). Umbilical hernia's may or may not be hereditery but, (small hernia's) are not a life threatning condition. The hernia in this puppy was not big enough for the intestines to pass through and, cause strangulation. The puppy was listed as sold to Anna and Family the day I recieved her deposit. I had many potential buyers that wanted this puppy. When a deposit is recieved on a puppy, this keeps the puppy from being placed with another person. Due to extra time spent and, inconvience on my part, I sent her a $50 refund. I have been more than fair with Anna. I will be speaking with this agency and sharing any and, all information I have about this report. I can provide references from buyer's and my Vet's. I have made so many people very happy with our Shih-Tzu babies. They bring such joy into people's lifes. As with all purebred dogs, the Shih-Tzu doe's have their own set of characteristics.

Sounds promising. The right one will be worth waiting for. Make sure when you visit, you read the contract carefully and thouroghly (no matter whom get your pet through). That will be your agreement, and it doesn't change later. I'm not sure if there's much to fall back on in texas. You're on the right track, and good luck to you.Keep me posted :-)

Hello Devils Advocate, thank you for your comments. No, I haven't been looking again. I'm a bit discouraged after what happened. Like what Joe said, I should just look here around Austin. That's what I've been doing before but I couldn't find one I liked, I wanted a red and white and I became impatient and started looking elsewhere. I wasn't gonna get one though if the dog will have to be shipped. Like I said I got impatient, also because I wrote an application to one of the shelters and they didn't get back to me. I don't know what happened with that. The rest of the puppies I saw being sold here in Austin are priced around $300 and stuff that I've read told me to stay away from that. I did see Karyon Shih tzu in Dallas. She seems to be a good breeder, she shows her dogs and boy they are beautiful!!! Of course I'm gonna have to visit her first. And I've learned my lesson so I better make sure things are crystal clear before we make a deal.

Anna

Of course a vet will say that a hernia that is open now must be fixed. I was just speaking of the likelyhood that it would not need to be repaired by the time the puppy was spayed, which is VERY likely. In which case the situation would be the same, but flipped, lol. It does depend on how much experience they have with hernia's though, for them to be aware of this likleyhood. I was not saying to drive to their vet, but only what they would pay if they were the ones having the hernia repaired (and frequent customers and refferals like with breeder's, do tend to get some discounts).

However, it would not be smart for a breeder to pay for a surgery after the customer has taken possesion, this can open up a whole new can of worms.They should either do nothing, or some sort of small discount. They do get some points for honesty, and telling you right away (which they should), instead of you finding out when you got the puppy, but a deduction on not informing you of any sort of deduction on your deposit. I do agree with you there, they should not have kept it without telling you that would be the case when it was discussed. But on the other hand, she did say she didn't know. They would have been better off returning your money while you made the decision, and then allowing you to give it BACK if you decided to keep the puppy (provided it had not been sold). It sounds like they definantly learned a lesson here :-). Hmmm, did you sign a deposit form? If so, what did it say? Or was it all verbal. And oh yeah, have you found another puppy yet?

And I can write advertising copy that will melt your heart and it is damned shame that people have to go out of state or out of their town where there are overflowing shelters with beautiful, smart, loyal and loving ADORABLE PETS probably in the very breed that you are seeking WHO NEED HOMES AND WILL BE PUT TO DEATH BY THE SHELTER!

Instead of sending a deposit for a MAYBE dog who MAY exist and who MAY NOT exist,
I would buy locally a puppy whose existence I can VERIFY and see its parents if I didn't get one from the SHELTER!

At least consider adopting from a shelter!

AND NOT FROM AN ALLEGED BREEDER WHO DOES STUFF LIKE THIS!

Hello Devils advocate. She's the one that asked me to call her vet first. It was a Friday night the first time that she asked me to call her vet. And of course the vets are closed, but I called the vet as soon as I can on Monday and I asked her vet if I really need to have fixed or will it eventually closed and he said that it definitely has to be fixed and that it is hereditary. Hereditary or not, it's gotta get fixed. And whether it's gonna heal by itself or not, then and there, during that time according to the vet that checked her it will not heal by itself so the price should be based on that. Saturday morning she said that she'll just keep the puppy and send my refund, and I asked her till Monday to hold it for me, and she said yes. If she was going to charge me $50 for that, she should have told me! Yeah maybe their vet would only charge them $50 but I'm not gonna drive the puppy three hours again to go there just so I can have her spayed with her vet. Oh yeah the first time she told me about the hernia, she said that it's easily fixed and I can have it done while I spay her, but she advised me that I should do it when she's one year old because spaying is not like neutering, spaying is more invasive. And the day that she told me she only sent me $50 (i don't know yet if she really did send me any), she said next time she'll just get their hernias fixed before selling them. She's really got a lot of contradictions in her statement. And her principle??? If she was a person with principle then she should be honest and keep word to her costumers. Buyers out there be forewarrned!!! Her puppies and adult shih tzus look really cute online. She seems like a really sweet lady and will talk constantly about her dogs but she's not honest and will not keep her word.

Hello Devils advocate. She's the one that asked me to call her vet first. It was a Friday night the first time that she asked me to call her vet. And of course the vets are closed, but I called the vet as soon as I can on Monday and I asked her vet if I really need to have fixed or will it eventually closed and he said that it definitely has to be fixed and that it is hereditary. Hereditary or not, it's gotta get fixed. And whether it's gonna heal by itself or not, then and there, during that time according to the vet that checked her it will not heal by itself so the price should be based on that. Saturday morning she said that she'll just keep the puppy and send my refund, and I asked her till Monday to hold it for me, and she said yes. If she was going to charge me $50 for that, she should have told me! Yeah maybe their vet would only charge them $50 but I'm not gonna drive the puppy three hours again to go there just so I can have her spayed with her vet. Oh yeah the first time she told me about the hernia, she said that it's easily fixed and I can have it done while I spay her, but she advised me that I should do it when she's one year old because spaying is not like neutering, spaying is more invasive. And the day that she told me she only sent me $50 (i don't know yet if she really did send me any), she said next time she'll just get their hernias fixed before selling them. She's really got a lot of contradictions in her statement. And her principle??? If she was a person with principle then she should be honest and keep word to her costumers. Buyers out there be forewarrned!!! Her puppies and adult shih tzus look really cute online. She seems like a really sweet lady and will talk constantly about her dogs but she's not honest and will not keep her word.

Hello Devils advocate. She's the one that asked me to call her vet first. It was a Friday night the first time that she asked me to call her vet. And of course the vets are closed, but I called the vet as soon as I can on Monday and I asked her vet if I really need to have fixed or will it eventually closed and he said that it definitely has to be fixed and that it is hereditary. Hereditary or not, it's gotta get fixed. And whether it's gonna heal by itself or not, then and there, during that time according to the vet that checked her it will not heal by itself so the price should be based on that. Saturday morning she said that she'll just keep the puppy and send my refund, and I asked her till Monday to hold it for me, and she said yes. If she was going to charge me $50 for that, she should have told me! Yeah maybe their vet would only charge them $50 but I'm not gonna drive the puppy three hours again to go there just so I can have her spayed with her vet. Oh yeah the first time she told me about the hernia, she said that it's easily fixed and I can have it done while I spay her, but she advised me that I should do it when she's one year old because spaying is not like neutering, spaying is more invasive. And the day that she told me she only sent me $50 (i don't know yet if she really did send me any), she said next time she'll just get their hernias fixed before selling them. She's really got a lot of contradictions in her statement. And her principle??? If she was a person with principle then she should be honest and keep word to her costumers. Buyers out there be forewarrned!!! Her puppies and adult shih tzus look really cute online. She seems like a really sweet lady and will talk constantly about her dogs but she's not honest and will not keep her word.

Hello Devils advocate. She's the one that asked me to call her vet first. It was a Friday night the first time that she asked me to call her vet. And of course the vets are closed, but I called the vet as soon as I can on Monday and I asked her vet if I really need to have fixed or will it eventually closed and he said that it definitely has to be fixed and that it is hereditary. Hereditary or not, it's gotta get fixed. And whether it's gonna heal by itself or not, then and there, during that time according to the vet that checked her it will not heal by itself so the price should be based on that. Saturday morning she said that she'll just keep the puppy and send my refund, and I asked her till Monday to hold it for me, and she said yes. If she was going to charge me $50 for that, she should have told me! Yeah maybe their vet would only charge them $50 but I'm not gonna drive the puppy three hours again to go there just so I can have her spayed with her vet. Oh yeah the first time she told me about the hernia, she said that it's easily fixed and I can have it done while I spay her, but she advised me that I should do it when she's one year old because spaying is not like neutering, spaying is more invasive. And the day that she told me she only sent me $50 (i don't know yet if she really did send me any), she said next time she'll just get their hernias fixed before selling them. She's really got a lot of contradictions in her statement. And her principle??? If she was a person with principle then she should be honest and keep word to her costumers. Buyers out there be forewarrned!!! Her puppies and adult shih tzus look really cute online. She seems like a really sweet lady and will talk constantly about her dogs but she's not honest and will not keep her word.

First of all, thank you for educating yourself, and for NOT talking about what a horrible breeder she is and throwing that mill word around during your post. Especially since I know that since you did your research, you know that is not always hereditary, and very likely to happen during birth or during c-section :-). Anyone who has ever seen either of these can easily imagine how it can happen. And, what if the $50 is for the additional time you asked for in which you were researching and debating and in which they were telling interested folks who did not consider the hernia much of an issue that the puppy was not available because it had a deposit? They were willing to refund the entire amount immediately after informing you, and then they continued to hold the puppy at your request. And in their eyes, maybe their dogs are ONLY $800, since they can be priced in the thousands now. And, maybe it was on their principal as well, lol. What if, after giving you the discount, the hernia no longer needed to be repaired? It sounds as if this was a small hernia, and it's generally only very large umbilical that are a 'big deal'. So, we know that it is also very likely that the hernia could have closed on it's own, by the time it came time to spay, and a repair would not be neccesary, and there would not likely be any issues for the dog in that case, and you would not be paying the extra for the repair. Oh, and maybe their vet would only charge them $50 if it was still repairable at the time of the spay. Just playing devil's advocate here. Whichever puppy you eventually choose will be very lucky, I'm sure. Just be careful of those whom are too cheap, and whom don't come with any paperwork, especially a contract.

I failed to mention this is not a $250 or $350 puppy. I was going to pay $800 for her.