Panda's Shih Tzu Dishonest, unethical back yard breeder - Untrustworthy Pasadena Texas

I had not returned to this site in well over a year, but feel compelled to respond to the absolute psychopath who left the previous message.

You meet all kinds on the internet and Anna (if that's even her real name) is the absolute worst of the worst. She is a full blown liar and absolute scum of the earth.

My house is not paid off. Sure wish it was. This lunatic paints with a broad brush and has no idea what she is talking about, although she sure knows how to lie and lay it on thick. She is a terrible human being and, speaking of internet bully, - she needs to take a good look in the mirror.

I used to maintain an immaculate lawn. The lawn is one of the things I've neglected since Stempy died. That neglect amounted to not mowing as often as I should. The city did indeed MOW my yard twice. So what? My grass was high. I've gone past that and am working to get my yard to how it used to be - immaculate. There has never been any other issues - Ms. Psychopath.

All the other crap you've tossed in is just that - crap. It's your own b.s. commentary full of lies and you are in desperate need of therapy. Seriously, you are mentally warped.

ANYBODY that gets to know you - Anna (or whatever your real name is) - AT ALL, will quickly come to realize just how mentally disturbed you are. You are a disgusting human being.

I will ALWAYS stand up for myself and those I love if I feel I or they have been wronged or treated unfairly. Period.

Hi Devil's Advocate - Bear with my Preamble for a minute... then I'll get on the qeustions you raised.
[Preamble]
When communicating with netizens we have only prior e-communications under their aliases to provide any kind of reliability/profile of who they may be. In most cases, this is enough to vet someone, most people are straightforward to the subject they are interested in discussing. I've never really had a problem with anyone on the net until that Toxic Pet food incident in 2007. Then I realized the extent of greed, evil and ploys perpetrated to make money off the name of our companion animals, to protect the guilty in that awful mess. There were "all sorts" hiding behind aliases, their Internet ploys and scams done to spin stories etc. create confusion etc. so the guilty could avoid their responsibilities. Came to my website to trash my cat and his family etc. etc. etc.

So, wishing this commentary to continue is not on the one hand a good idea for the targets of these "people", I can speak for myself, but I suspect for Ruth, also. However, I prefer to live my life believing the universe is bountiful and people will always choose good if they truly believed they deserved good and did not believe in their souls they were irretrievably evil, a dead giveaway when we encounter their bullying tactics and worse, in every aspect of their lives;-) [End of Preamble!]

I think you are the one who did contact Ruth and she sent you to my pet websites. Unfortunately, due to the actions of the gang who attacked her here, and me elsewhere, I had to make those websites private. (They've been stalking them). I don't have your email and this board does not (for excellent reasons!) allow id of personal information. I have up to 100 email addresses for readers on both, and they are filling up fast, but I have asked Ruth to give you my email address so if you like I can add you as a reader.

To answer your questions here:

"Does that mean that Stefani actually DID/DOES have some sort of association with Mr. Munson? "

Yes, you will see reference to her case on their websites. But getting listed - whether you want it or not! - on a website is no big deal these days, so yes, for a fact they have indeed worked closely together for at least 1+ year that I know of... at least communication that sort of thing.

"made a few attacks of their own, and in fact gave the impression they were another observer (at least to me)?"Hence my comment we were appalled to see her participation.

"I also considered the fact that they just might be trying to make a point by sounding similar to Mr. Munson)."

ANYONE could have gotten on here and claimed the Ripoff Username Stefani, but it does sound like her, and the spelling is one of the two most common spellings - the other most common is Stefanie.

However, you make an excellent point as one of his gang is a writer and has written what was categorized as children's books in the distant past. That person also has several web personalities. An investigator I work with could not be sure HER comments on my websites were a child using her computer, or an adult, but they were gratuitously vulgar comments, sounded like the person who signed up as 'gofuchureself' above. Whoever 'gofuchureself' really is tried to come across as an "ignorant hick" but surprising to me, had a dead on accurate spelling of words that are just not in the vocabulary of such. Unfortunately, sloppy is sloppy, and other pointers reveal the true identify of that vulgar person. SOME of those have been reported to Ripoff. Even if a person goes to a hotspot to log in, they can be traced.

"Just SAY so if you do." Transparency of intent is not an attribute you will find with people working as a group, up to something, or getting their kicks out of hurting people.

"I have been accused of knowing, working for, being ect. the complained on party more than once when I actually had little to no prior knowledge and certainly no contact until reading a report."

I read the prior reports with your current username... the brouhaha does seem to be involved with dog breeding of very tiny exotic dogs. I understand the email conversation with Ruth took a similar turn way last year, mentioning the same breed. There is likely your answer. I suspect every dog breeder in the US should read this report and make sure you do the background checks to include psychological stability. People who resort to malicious acts (email/phone content and pattern also fall under that) when they don't get what they want often turn to those inside the house, to their pets, and family, when they have run out of external targets. These are serious matters.

"Mr. Munson, the situation, your comments in the original report (and your mannerisms and some basic personality traits which have been displayed) DOES lead people to believe you are the one who called AC."

It is easily discovered by googling that Mr. Munson goes by the handle gwm65 on a number of groups and boards that HELP people for FREE.

You will find three references on the web, right off the top, that show - since 2005 - he has been bullying, rude to people, uses gratuitous vulgarity, and has gotten banned from websites. Now these websites have NOTHING to do with animals, or veterinary issues, he has been kicked of coding forums, and forums that gave legal advice on human resource issues, etc. And there are more - false accusations everywhere.

All this "false accusations" stuff is raising a huge red flag, for the banner under which he and his gang march forth to stomp on innocent people is the accusation a bad vet killed their pet. In my opinion, and my opinion only, there is a huge systemic problem with the entire veterinary stakeholder chain, but I RAN from this gang. Now I discover their modus operandi is 'false accusation'? 'Nuff said! I sadly realize that anyone who deals with them is likely to be associated with their modus operandi. We have a real case. We can't afford that exposure whatever we decide to do. Interesting that one of them said my case was 'slam dunk', there is no such thing in the law, but I was very surprised I was considered by them, the only one in the group that actually had real hard evidence, and not just one expert opinion vs. another. So I would advise anyone who really REALLY did lose their pet to an alleged malpractice situation, to leave that group because IMO their association with these people may likely damage whatever case they are putting together. It's not worth it.

"DOES lead people to believe you are the one who called AC."

You bring up the most important point of all. Mr. Munson left his home address on his website(s), as he posted his legal documentation, and he did this way before he contact Ruth in 2008 inquiring into a small Shih Tzu.

As anyone who has applied for an animal knows, they have to reveal personal information etc. and the sooner the better to ensure no surprises later. He sure did, didn't he? If I had sent - in my first emails- a prospective animal provider to my website - filled with a sad, but highly controversial issue, with my home address listed there - I would not be surprised - if a careful animal breeder didn't do "due diligence". Humble or modest or not, these are not the measure of a family's character. When placing an animal, the character and reputation of those who really do know them (not vulgar cohorts in an Internet consumer action now an e-vendetta) is as important as financial capability/responsibility.

And that's where the entire MUNSON story quickly falls apart.

Not for any overt financial issues, as they would discover his house was paid off (it's the ONLY place on the web where the names GREG WAYNE MUNSON and CYNTHIA MARGARET MUNSON are to be publicly found) and the date it was paid off. They will also discover that the terms of the house loan and the homeowners responsibilities included keeping the property in good condition, mowing the lawns, keeping animal feces in check - that sort of thing. It turns out once the loan had been repaid, the Dallas County Clerk's office recorded in 2008 TWO LIENS, where the appropriate local agency had to come in and clean up the yard/property of whatever the violations were, to the tune of over $100 each time.

Now, based on common sense, who would be complaining of the Munson dog yard? The most non-paranoid and checkable fact is it was those who have a vested interested in keeping the neighborhood looking good.

Only AC knows who actually filed the complaint, and that would be a matter of record Ruth is entitled to, and if she even hinted gently it's one of them, I'd believe her, in a heartbeat.

I place my comments here in public, because Internet bullying is a huge problem, and false accusations are a huge problem: There are REAL COMPLAINTS that CRIMINALS portray as false, and FALSE COMPLAINTS that CRIMINALS portray as true. Innocent people and their suffering animals are often caught in the middle of this mess.

Investigators make their money flushing out the mess. But corrupt investigators sell their findings to the highest bidder. So, it happens in every sector of the economy. A core reason the US is in the toilet right now? May it flush the evil from the criminal minded.

I've suggested Ripoff Report place this report in "THE BEST OF RIPOFF - BACKFIRED!".

Does that mean that Stefani actually DID/DOES have some sort of association with Mr. Munson? Said this, You claim to be unrelated to this situation, but your viscious and cruel attacks on Mr. Munson make these claims unbelievable., but didn't bother to say she was associated, made a few attacks of their own, and in fact gave the impression they were another observer (at least to me)? The commonalities of the posts were really apparent, BUT, as I KNOW I have never spoken to Ruth in any way, shape or form (YET, :-) and it's a wide, wide world out there I didn't want to make a point of it (I also considered the fact that they just might be trying to make a point by sounding similar to Mr. Munson). Just because people may THINK alike occasionally or often , have similar views, and even display some similar personality traits doesn't mean they know each other. Just SAY so if you do. I have been accused of knowing, working for, being ect. the complained on party more than once when I actually had little to no prior knowledge and certainly no contact until reading a report. Believe me, I DO plan to email Ruth and say hello one day after all this. Maybe even today. I was just waiting for the post to calm down a bit, but I think this one will go strong for a very, very long while. Mr. Munson, the situation, your comments in the original report (and your mannerisms and some basic personality traits which have been displayed) DOES lead people to believe you are the one who called AC. That's going to make A LOT of people VERY upset. To be honest, I wish there were more folks giving their opinions on this post. It would be interesting. Just if someone KNOWS one of the parties prior to reading the report, say so as that DOES reflect on your opinions if only a little. *just my opinions*

... in my very recent (like about 2 weeks only) experience with these people - I believe they are truly lost souls. I am very sorry to see the nature of Stefani's comments here - up until I saw this I thought - because of HER - these others were legit. And so recently I agreed to join one of their Internet groups. BAD IDEA. All goes well until you call them on something, or try to leave. Then they go into concerted action. I cannot believe Stefani is in the middle of this, she seemed like such a class act.

I did not do the required due diligence before joining a pet vet related group, as I was extremely upset at the loss of my cat. Otherwise, I would have come across this ripoff report, and have stayed far FAR away from them, based solely on what is displayed here - acting as a group, and their methods and language are not something I want to be involved with. And that is "my bad".

When you get my email, you'll see why I felt I had to respond to you here, in public, and I why I am happy RIPOFF report exists - as now both parties to this matter have revealed themselves in their own words, tactics and methods, and what went on - and more importantly, WHO you are vs WHO these people really are.

They do need help: the horrible tragedies that brought them together can no longer be the excuse they flaunt to give them the right to gang up and run amok over anyone who in their minds, has slighted them. Including abuse of other people who have lost their pets to alleged malpractice - not 13 years ago, but 20 days ago.

The real damage that can be done, I fear, is they are over-winding other unsuspecting vulnerable pet-loss victims - into ticking time bombs. I wish the system had been fairer to this group, because unfair systems can generate lost souls, or worse. But I tend to suspect the seed had to been their hearts to begin with.

I didn't find that on my last posting but in a prior posting, oh, well we all make mistakes??

With so many postings on here it is very hard to keep up or care to word everything correctly after a while because, I know it does not matter anyway.

My bad, what I really wanted to say, was that I generally send out a common courtesy email to all those who inquire about my puppies, after the puppies have been placed.

This allows the customer to either, thank me for letting them know or inquire about a different puppy or just go somewhere else to find another and not take up their time or mine.

No, I didn't send all those that inquired the same email I sent you, lol...;0) very similar but not the same one.

Simple mistake, simple correction, there!

Thank you Gofu for your support, however, I believe we are now trying to leave out the name calling...though I appreciate the sentiments.

In another example of Ruth having CRS disease (Can't Remember Sh-t = CRS), she states in her very last post above:

"I explained to you that the puppy had been placed, at which point that should have been it. This was a general email that I sent out to several inquiries including yours this was not a person turn down, just a FYI or what I would call a common courtesy email."

Does this look like a "general email ...sent out to several inquiries" ? C'mon Ruth.

From: Ruth Beasley
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 7:37 PM
To: Greg & Cindy Munson
Subject: RE: cowboy

Greg, I am sorry, I did not get back with you sooner. I decided on a home for Cowboy about a week ago( someone who wanted him and did not care what size he ended up as an adult). I had been meaning to email you but have been extremly busy, thank you for your inquiries and I hope you find what you are looking for soon. Ruth Beasley

http://pages.prodigy.net/pandashihtzus

LOL lots of posts. I feel 4 u Mr. Monson. The so-called breeder certanly lead u on. Really, u showed quite a bit of patience with this nut job Ruth Beasley wench. I think I would have told her 2 go .fu......well go do something...LOL.. I've never seen any1 so full of them self in all my life as this 'breeder' lady! She is a narcisistic vampire!

Bgg in 'bama u suck. You must be the slime of humanity. Talk about makin people sick. Look in the mirror. Whats ur kennel name so people can stay away from u 2!

That's right, Ruth. You, as a breeder, have a right to choose where you place your puppies. Completely agree.

What you DON'T have the right as a breeder to do is to MISLEAD and be INCONSIDERATE of your prospective customers and expect them to take it and just move on without saying anything.

I will be the first to admit that I am not your typical prospective customer. If I was, then perhaps I would have just let your actions go and moved on to the next breeder or puppy. But I wasn't. We had experienced a very traumatic loss that YOU were AWARE of. The search to find another similar to Stempy had been exhaustive. Though you claimed to be amazed at our search, you obviously did not and still don't understand how important this search is TO US. We had already become attached to the little guy only to have you snatch him away from us. We had been looking for a pup like him for three years! We were hurt and you chose to ignore us and then you chose to criticize our home and tell us you would NEVER place a puppy with us. AFTER this point is when I called you names where I may have warranted being ignored. Not before.

What kind of a person could do this to someone in our situation and move on with a clear conscience? If you love your doggies as much as you say, then surely you should be able to understand WHY we were so hurt. Don't play with other people's feelings like that, Ruth.

From our emails with you, we should have been number one on your list when you were ready to take a deposit or take the process to the next step. We had done nothing to warrant not being first on your list in terms of interest and at that point you had given no indication that you had a problem with us. In fact, you had acted quite the opposite.

Whatever your methods are for choosing a home, one thing is for sure....your methods are not FAIR.

I did not purposely place this on Christmas Eve. In fact, I had tried to put this whole sorry episode out of my mind and had not thought about it for months. My wife was working both Christmas Eve AND Christmas Day and my family lives out of town. Would I had loved to be with them? You bet I would, but circumstances did not permit. I was sitting here missing Stempy at his favorite time of year. I had not looked for another pup since our experience with you. I decided to do an online search and see what was out there and I happened upon your site again - reopening old wounds. And so I placed this report.

The date was coincidental. But like everything else you have done with me, you have completely misjudged me and my intentions.

So be it.I am tired of arguing with you. Every topic that is brought up, you act like YOU are the EXPERT on all matters. I'm just tired of it.

This post is to correct the following, from the previous post.

I explained to you when you inquired about the puppy that I had placed it, that should have been it!

Correction:

I explained to you that the puppy had been placed, at which point that should have been it. This was a general email that I sent out to several inquiries including yours this was not a person turn down, just a FYI or what I would call a common courtesy email.

I have a few statements to add. ....firstly, Stefani, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if their opinions suck (like yours do).

secondly, I think the Munsons needs a psychological assessment, the emails they originally sent (especially after the breeder had sold the 'product' to someone else) are hilarious yet sadly pathetic. The dog was sold, ACCEPT IT and don't be vindictive. If you had called animal control on me I would have filed harrassment suits against you and possibly taken violent action. You are a sad pathetic couple of stalkers, I personally believe you should be imprisoned for your behaviour.

Greg Munson....regadless of how emotionally retarded you may be, you must come to the realization that you are not the center of the known universe, you are just a sad old man with a chip on your shoulder. GET OVER IT !!!!


My constructive advice.....Panda Shih Tzu, never come back to this site. These people proved their ignorance by posting the email correspondence. They are mentally unstable and nobody is taking their crap seriously.

Mr. and Mrs. Munson, find something else to b***h about and live your lives. People like you make me physically sick. Disgusting human beings.

I have a few statements to add. ....firstly, Stefani, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if their opinions suck (like yours do).

secondly, I think the Munsons needs a psychological assessment, the emails they originally sent (especially after the breeder had sold the 'product' to someone else) are hilarious yet sadly pathetic. The dog was sold, ACCEPT IT and don't be vindictive. If you had called animal control on me I would have filed harrassment suits against you and possibly taken violent action. You are a sad pathetic couple of stalkers, I personally believe you should be imprisoned for your behaviour.

Greg Munson....regadless of how emotionally retarded you may be, you must come to the realization that you are not the center of the known universe, you are just a sad old man with a chip on your shoulder. GET OVER IT !!!!


My constructive advice.....Panda Shih Tzu, never come back to this site. These people proved their ignorance by posting the email correspondence. They are mentally unstable and nobody is taking their crap seriously.

Mr. and Mrs. Munson, find something else to b***h about and live your lives. People like you make me physically sick. Disgusting human beings.

I have a few statements to add. ....firstly, Stefani, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if their opinions suck (like yours do).

secondly, I think the Munsons needs a psychological assessment, the emails they originally sent (especially after the breeder had sold the 'product' to someone else) are hilarious yet sadly pathetic. The dog was sold, ACCEPT IT and don't be vindictive. If you had called animal control on me I would have filed harrassment suits against you and possibly taken violent action. You are a sad pathetic couple of stalkers, I personally believe you should be imprisoned for your behaviour.

Greg Munson....regadless of how emotionally retarded you may be, you must come to the realization that you are not the center of the known universe, you are just a sad old man with a chip on your shoulder. GET OVER IT !!!!


My constructive advice.....Panda Shih Tzu, never come back to this site. These people proved their ignorance by posting the email correspondence. They are mentally unstable and nobody is taking their crap seriously.

Mr. and Mrs. Munson, find something else to b***h about and live your lives. People like you make me physically sick. Disgusting human beings.

FROM YOUR LAST POSTING:


You stated several posts ago that you were DONE - no more posts from you - but yet you CONTINUE to keep posting. All you are proving is what I have been saying this whole time......that YOU ARE A LIAR!

I responded to your irrelevant accusations and comments and I will NOT continue to do so.You can't seem to stick to the facts of this complaint. Why is that?
ALL THOSE WORDS ABOVE ARE YOURS NOT MINE.


DOES THIS MEAN YOU ARE A LIAR TO? OR DOES THIS MEAN THAT PEOPLE JUST CHANGE THEIR MIND ABOUT WHAT THEY WANT TO DO. COULD IT BE THAT SOMETIMES WE ARE JUST DIFFERENT AND REALLY MEAN NO HARM IN WHAT WE SAY, BY SIMPLY ANSWERING SOME EMAIL QUESTIONS? AND SOME OF US JUST MISUNDERSTAND THAT IT MEANT THE PUPPY WAS ON HOLD FOR THEM?

YOU TELL ME BECAUSE ACCORDING TO YOU I AM JUST A BAD BREEDER WHO LIES AND DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO DEAL FAIRLY WITH PEOPLE. OR COULD IT BE THAT YOU JUST TOOK IT UPON YOUR SELF TO MISUNDERSTAND AND THEREFORE YOU GOT HURT?



There is no way of knowing that you called or didn't call etc....because all I know is the information I received from the city of pasadena, the timing of the visit was just impeccable. You expect people to believe you but only you. Anything and everything I have to say is simply a lie??

Had I scammed you or taken money from you or sold you a sick dog, etc...this would have been a valid business accusation.

I explained to you when you inquired about the puppy that I had placed it, that should have been it! Then when you proceeded to want me to change my mind and kept up and I chose to end my conversations with you, that should have been it! Anything further is just, well in my mind, weird.


I understand your valid accusation of the vet in question but DON'T put me in the SAME category. Also, she has yet to be proven that what you say about her took place. That is why I personally would have tried to raise money by having fund raising events, etc....if I didn't have the money. Hell, I would have placed my house up for the money, just to prove to myself and to the world this person had done my dog wrong. But that is just me. Anyway, I am going off subject.

BUT FOR YOU TO HAVE PLACED THIS IN YOUR FIRST POSTING:

Breeders such as this do not deserve the dogs they have. Karma is a b-tch.

This breeder is also in violation of local laws which limit the number of adult dogs one can keep at one location. She lies to the city as well. What else does she lie about? I do not recommend this breeder. AVOID Panda's Shih Tzu.

Concerned consumer
Dallas, Texas
U.S.A.

First what did all that have to do with anything?

THESE ARE WORDS OF WAR!!! NOT OF PEACE MAKING??? AND THEN TO PLACE IT ON DEC.24 KNOWING IT WOULD COME OUT THE NEXT DAY FOR CHRISTMAS!!! Really I would love to hear why you chose to do this on a day you should have been spending with your family and enjoying yourself?

I know I was. Also, FYI not that you want to know or need to but my husband had been unemployed since, hurricane Ike and in Jan.09 started back to work, so your timing on this one also was not very nice ;( Not saying that you knew but for those breeders who did and customers, they did not take very kind to it. Nor did I. Imagine waking up to loving kind emails about Christmas and then a person I don't know, sends me this email telling me that, GREG MUNSON has placed?? DON'T FOCUS ON THE EMAIL THAT WAS SENT TO ME BUT THE FACT THAT YOU CHOSE THAT DATE TO PLACE THIS COMPLAINT WAS JUST TACKY.


This is not how you deal with a business or person, at least not the way I do things. These types of things are done by a person who is hurting and I tried to reach out to you in these postings to help you understand why maybe you were reacting this way but you chose to continue to view it as a unfair business transaction. I also tried to SMASH these postings by placing the INVALIDATION posting not just to benefit me but to help in having people stop placing mean postings. You however continue to pick on my spelling and personal character ( saying I am not intelligent, etc...lol...) I even went as far as to allow you into what happened to Cowboy but that still wasn't enough you want a picture, do you see what I mean!


From the beginning of this thread I have not viewed this as a business dealing but a personal attack because of the words you have written and therefore I had to handle it the best way I knew how.


AGAIN NO BREEDER SHOULD EVER HAVE TO GO THROUGH WHAT I HAVE GONE THROUGH WITH YOU! The placement of our puppies should be a pleasant experience. And our puppies should be in homes where they are loved and their new owners can carry a personal relationship with the breeder. For the betterment of our breed we need to be able to communicate with the new owners. This helps us to know if anything is going on with our lines. We as breeders have the right to chose who we place our puppies with and who we don't despite anyone's opinions.

Here you go, Ruth.

I apologize for calling you a piece of trash backyard breeder. The unethical part I will not apologize for. You were not called this until you had sent me your final insulting email that was critical of us and uncalled for. I have stated this OVER and OVER again. You were still inconsiderate of us and our feelings and treated us unfairly and mislead us.

You say you never meant to hurt us. I wish that I could believe that, but your actions both then and now do not back up your claim.

I stated I was not going to address your irrelevant accusations and comments. I am going to backtrack to prove a point.

Unlike you, I AM able to admit when I am wrong. You want to crucify me for an accidental litter that has absolutely NOTHING at all to do with this complaint and how you treated us. Your sole goal in bringing it up was to try to deflect attention away from the FACTS of this complaint and to try and ruin us and our credibility. It's not happening. I accepted responsibility for the accidental breeding and took appropriate steps to remedy the situation. Go back and read, Ruth. I already stated that I was WRONG to think that I could have prevented it.

But, whatever. You do not understand me or my intentions at all.

I had asked to email you a few posts back because I THOUGHT we had reached the point where we could communicate in a civil manner. Obviously, I was wrong. I left it up to you as to whether or not you approved. If you did not like whatever I would have emailed you, I am sure you would have posted it on here just like you did the other. Your cries of harassment or stalking ring hollow.

Here you go, Ruth.

I apologize for calling you a piece of trash backyard breeder. The unethical part I will not apologize for. You were not called this until you had sent me your final insulting email that was critical of us and uncalled for. I have stated this OVER and OVER again. You were still inconsiderate of us and our feelings and treated us unfairly and mislead us.

You say you never meant to hurt us. I wish that I could believe that, but your actions both then and now do not back up your claim.

I stated I was not going to address your irrelevant accusations and comments. I am going to backtrack to prove a point.

Unlike you, I AM able to admit when I am wrong. You want to crucify me for an accidental litter that has absolutely NOTHING at all to do with this complaint and how you treated us. Your sole goal in bringing it up was to try to deflect attention away from the FACTS of this complaint and to try and ruin us and our credibility. It's not happening. I accepted responsibility for the accidental breeding and took appropriate steps to remedy the situation. Go back and read, Ruth. I already stated that I was WRONG to think that I could have prevented it.

But, whatever. You do not understand me or my intentions at all.

I had asked to email you a few posts back because I THOUGHT we had reached the point where we could communicate in a civil manner. Obviously, I was wrong. I left it up to you as to whether or not you approved. If you did not like whatever I would have emailed you, I am sure you would have posted it on here just like you did the other. Your cries of harassment or stalking ring hollow.

Here you go, Ruth.

I apologize for calling you a piece of trash backyard breeder. The unethical part I will not apologize for. You were not called this until you had sent me your final insulting email that was critical of us and uncalled for. I have stated this OVER and OVER again. You were still inconsiderate of us and our feelings and treated us unfairly and mislead us.

You say you never meant to hurt us. I wish that I could believe that, but your actions both then and now do not back up your claim.

I stated I was not going to address your irrelevant accusations and comments. I am going to backtrack to prove a point.

Unlike you, I AM able to admit when I am wrong. You want to crucify me for an accidental litter that has absolutely NOTHING at all to do with this complaint and how you treated us. Your sole goal in bringing it up was to try to deflect attention away from the FACTS of this complaint and to try and ruin us and our credibility. It's not happening. I accepted responsibility for the accidental breeding and took appropriate steps to remedy the situation. Go back and read, Ruth. I already stated that I was WRONG to think that I could have prevented it.

But, whatever. You do not understand me or my intentions at all.

I had asked to email you a few posts back because I THOUGHT we had reached the point where we could communicate in a civil manner. Obviously, I was wrong. I left it up to you as to whether or not you approved. If you did not like whatever I would have emailed you, I am sure you would have posted it on here just like you did the other. Your cries of harassment or stalking ring hollow.

Here you go, Ruth.

I apologize for calling you a piece of trash backyard breeder. The unethical part I will not apologize for. You were not called this until you had sent me your final insulting email that was critical of us and uncalled for. I have stated this OVER and OVER again. You were still inconsiderate of us and our feelings and treated us unfairly and mislead us.

You say you never meant to hurt us. I wish that I could believe that, but your actions both then and now do not back up your claim.

I stated I was not going to address your irrelevant accusations and comments. I am going to backtrack to prove a point.

Unlike you, I AM able to admit when I am wrong. You want to crucify me for an accidental litter that has absolutely NOTHING at all to do with this complaint and how you treated us. Your sole goal in bringing it up was to try to deflect attention away from the FACTS of this complaint and to try and ruin us and our credibility. It's not happening. I accepted responsibility for the accidental breeding and took appropriate steps to remedy the situation. Go back and read, Ruth. I already stated that I was WRONG to think that I could have prevented it.

But, whatever. You do not understand me or my intentions at all.

I had asked to email you a few posts back because I THOUGHT we had reached the point where we could communicate in a civil manner. Obviously, I was wrong. I left it up to you as to whether or not you approved. If you did not like whatever I would have emailed you, I am sure you would have posted it on here just like you did the other. Your cries of harassment or stalking ring hollow.

Let me make this VERY clear.

I DID NOT CALL ANIMAL CONTROL AND NEITHER DID MY WIFE OR ANYONE WE KNOW. You need to SERIOUSLY start looking in another direction. IT WAS NOT US. Got it?

I DID NOT SEND YOU AN ANONYMOUS EMAIL ON CHRISTMAS DAY.

This complaint is not about MY house of which you knew or know nothing about. This complaint is SOLELY about how we were treated as your prospective customers. THAT'S IT. I cannot help it if you were breaking the law and got caught. IT WAS NOT BECAUSE OF US. WE DID NOT CALL. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD.

You have misjudged and you CONTINUE to misjudge me and misjudge my intentions.

Correction: Wisdom is learned, it does not come naturally. If you lack this, I can't help you with it because you refuse to learn.

Sigh....between playing sl and talking to my hubby and watching the news and answering the phone and typing, I did not finish my previous posting correctly.

To all who read this, my intentions towards Mr. Munson were never to hurt him but when someone accuses you of something and you have a hobby or ( business ) what else could I do but defend my name. If I was just being mean and thoughtless I would never have even let him know that the puppy had been placed.

When he was upset, after knowing that the puppy was placed, I offered sympathy but that was not enough. It was at that moment this whole nightmare started. I have never in my entire time of having shih tzu come into contact with anyone such as Mr. Munson. In my 16 years of living at the same home, I have never had Animal Control come to my home, except shortly after I informed Mr. Munson the puppy had been placed. The information that was submitted to animal control was that I had a ad for a puppy for sale and I was a breeder and in violation of city code with the amount of animals I had. Hmmm..... The personal information is never given due to privacy.

I was livid that someone would have done this. Did they not realize had my shih tzu have been taken that very day, two of them would have been euthanized because they were very old. In a small town such as ours no one really adopts and after 3 days they just kill them!!! I thought to myself at that time: whoever did this is not a animal lover or they are totally heartless and could not possibly understand the love one has for a animal.

My explaining to Mr. Munson that my dogs were my property was simply trying to tell him where I stood within the law and he knows it or at least I thought he was smart enough to understand. I believe he gets a kick out of trying his best to make it seem I am heartless.

I was not trying to twist things around, just trying to explain to him how I don't think like him nor carry the same ethics as he does. I am sure he has had his reasons for all that he has done in life as I have. But if you are going to point the finger at someone, make sure your house is clean first.

Don't sit there and tell me I am a unethical piece of trash backyard breeder, when you have bred a litter of mutts.

Don't sit there and tell me I am in violation of my city code and you are doing the same.


Other avenues to resolve a problem. Walk away, don't argue, lace up your boots and get to moving on. If you didn't get the point across within a few emails, then chances are you won't period. So, going further and placing this online with NO name and INCORRECT city just showed me that you did not want to work things out but to start crap. Placing it on Christmas Eve was just LOW and then mysteriously someone sent a email letting me know this was placed!!

It reminded me of a earlier posting you did and then you couldn't wait for me to see it and emailed me personally. Then when it started getting hot in here you wanted to email me and continue to discuss it privately??Because you wanted to be able to say crap without anyone else knowing. These are all tendencies of a stalker. All this raises quite a bit of BIG RED FLAGS!!

Oh, excuse my spelling mistakes...when a person is upset and it is 3 a.m. this happens. I usually get on here in the wee hours of the morning.Plus who cares if a person makes a spelling error on here. Of course I already know, what you have to say about that ;0)

I have a life besides here, those are the best hours for me.

I never asked you but why would you decide to post the very first complaint DEC. 24 and then someone sent a annoymous email to me on Christmas!!! Alerting me to this posting....That in itself reflects poorly on you.

You said, you showed me more respect than I deserved, back at you! You call me a Liar, just because you don't agree than I do the same.

Wisdom is not learned, it comes naturally. If you lack this, I can't help you.

I just about died laughing reading this story. If the title of the never ending story had not been taken, this would fit perfectly. Seems to me like you got OWNED, Mr. Munson.Sorry, Mrs. B. I know you said not to come on here but I just had too (SMILE) I have known Mrs. B, since I was a tiny child. She is the most loving and caring person you would ever want to meet. She loves her dogs and was really torn up when she had to place her oldies. Look here old man, you picked on the wrong person. She ain't mean just, very picky. I have one of her dogs. I also know that, just today she called a lady who she placed a dog with and took it on herself to pay the vet bill cause the lady didn't have any money & the dog needed routine medical attention. This lady Rocks!! She just don't take kind to LIARS. She has letters from all kinds of people who write her and send her pics of the puppies she has placed with them. When I read you talked to psychos, lol...okay a psychic, I was like, WTH.. you need to get out more often. My dog from her is very healthy and looks like a shih tzu not like some of those dogs out there. I don't have anything bad to say about Mrs. B. She has a good heart and is always there when I need to ask her a question. My experience with, pandashihtzus has been nothing more than good. I love my dog and would tell anyone who wants a shih tzu to go to her. Maybe had you apologized to her from the beginning she would have allowed you to have one of her dogs.

Ruth,

There ARE NO MISSING EMAILS! Are you so stupid as to not realize that YOU sent me the notice that YOU deleted MY email? And the email that YOU deleted IS INCLUDED. So YOU never even HAD all of the emails. If there are missing emails, POST THEM PLEASE.

It has now become crystal clear to me that your comprehension skills leave MUCH to be desired. And your MANY misspelled words speaks VOLUMES about your intelligence - or lack thereof!

You stated several posts ago that you were DONE - no more posts from you - but yet you CONTINUE to keep posting. All you are proving is what I have been saying this whole time......that YOU ARE A LIAR!

I responded to your irrelevant accusations and comments and I will NOT continue to do so.You can't seem to stick to the facts of this complaint. Why is that?

I have a website for the bad vet. I suppose I could have done the same for you, but I didn't. I posted my complaint HERE so that YOU would have an opportunity to respond. I STILL gave you FAR more credit than you deserve.

You speak of other avenues besides this that I could have taken. Besides posting a website, what other avenues were there? You would not communicate. YOU. Not ME. REASONABLE people can work things out. YOU are NOT a reasonable person.

You were NEVER harassed. It's obvious that you think nobody should EVER question you - that you are ABOVE reproach. I have news for you - YOU'RE NOT.

The fact that you refer to your pets as your property - like a toaster - should tell everyone everything they need to know about you.

Many vets take that same view of pets as property. A California attorney had this to say about the subject:

"And I say to [veterinarians], 'Let me suggest to you that you're a profession that has it both ways. On the one hand, you're a multibillion-dollar business where, when I come in to see you, you are relying on me having an emotional attachment to my animal so much so that I'm willing to spend whatever it takes to make that animal well. And you say to me in your waiting room, 'How's your boy? What's wrong with your kid? What's wrong with your baby?' And yet if you mess up, and I want you to be held accountable, you answer me with, 'It's a piece of property.' And I would suggest to you that if you actually believe that you should hang a plaque in your front office that says, 'You are hereby notified that we subscribe to the belief that your animal is a piece of property and will be treated as such here,' we'll see how long you stay in business. You just won't."

So, Ruth, perhaps you should post a BIG notice on your website that you subscribe to the belief your dogs and pups are property and are treated as such.

ANY breeder that APPROVES of the way you have treated us is NOT a breeder that I would EVER want to do business with. PERIOD.

From your last post: The key part of that description is '....individuals who have treated you unfairly.' You fall squarely into that category for me


My preception of the key word would be: Had you been treated unfairly such as been monetarily ripped off or promised something you were NOT!



Also from your last post: Ruth, I am confident enough in myself and my position to have placed this on here. I believe that if a reasonable person takes the time to read this looooong thread, they will see exactly why I feel the way I do. The people you describe as 'creaming' me are nothing more than an irritant. I am still just as confident in my position as I was the day this was posted


Can a individual not have empathy on your behalf, despite your opinions? That you must come across as being on the defensive with everything I have to say or anyone else not agreeing with you?


From your last post:

Have you undertaken a deliberate smear campaign against me in your responses? Yes, you most certainly have. You have repeatedly tried to shift the focus from the issues in THIS complaint. I believe that I know why and I think the majority of folks that read this will know why as well. It reflects very poorly on you.

Please, you started this!! Remember your first posting? Hmmm...let me see! From personal opinions about my character to asking people to avoid Panda Shih Tzu. Indicating that breeders like me don't deserve to have the dogs they have ( your opinion again). That Karma is a btch! In other words, you will get what is coming to you. This breeder is in violation of city ordinances and lies to the city, what else does she lie about ( also your personal opinions based on the fact that you thought the puppy was being held for you!) So, who is smearing who??

Did you think I would stand by and allow you to just say, whatever and not defend myself? Why is it that there is not a report on the Vet here on ripoff report? You were an actual customer there. Why is there not a report on the breeder who told you about the inguinal hernia and eye white just before shipping? Based on your accusations this person should also be on here because they withheld info, right? In my opinion NOT! Heck if we all got pissy about our personal perspectives on how we are treated at any local stores, government offices, etc....everyone in this country would have to live under the scrutiny of a socialist society!



Again my methods for selecting my puppy parents might not suit you but that is my right. According to the law in Texas my shih tzu are considered my property, so when you mentioned that I kinda was like, what?? This word probably pushed a button with you because that is why you did not proceed in suing the alleged Vet because in Texas Stempy was considered your property and you would not be able to get more than what you quoted. Not my words yours.

Personally, I would have continued and paid the 50-100 grand, simply because money never means anything to me when I have a passion about something that I stand for. Despite that you would end up with only 500 the point you say you are trying to make because of Stempy was that Vets should not be able to get away with this type of treatment to animals, again your words not mine.

I would have to question why you didn't despite not being able to afford it, which is always a hinderance but where there is a will there is a way.


I am also curious as to your candor about the half breed litter you raised and placed. I have read and understand your perception of why you thought you could prevent a breeding to take place once. Since you are so open about how you research everything you seem to speak about. As a pet person that I have been for more years than I have had the hobby of raising shih tzu. I too was a pet person and did my research on the breeds I have own throughout the years and not once did I not understand the seriousness of allowing my pet to go without spay or neuter.

I understand your fear after what you experiened but I am having trouble not understanding that you did not do research about keeping your pets apart during Echos heat? Common sense would be that you would have separated them by simply placing them in different rooms or taking her to a relative,etc.... this makes me question the truth in how she became pregnant.

Even then, when the breeding took place you could have taken her immediately to a vet to have her spayed and no half breed puppies would have been born nor would you have added to the already poorly bred dogs in this world. But yet you question my ethics?? I have been raising dogs for years and usually the shih tzu has a hard time figuring out what they need to do to mount a female, especially if they have two sets of undies. I could go into further details but I won't. Again my opinions based upon your own words.

You said in one of your emails, that you were not a breeder. Despite dictionary definitions that you seem to like so much ;0) There are slang words and words that people use to mean other than what the dictionary uses them for. Such as in the world of breeding: If a person has ever raised a litter of puppies, despite if they are sold or placed with or without a monetary fee, you are considered a breeder. Accident or no accident, which I am still having a hard time believing! You are a breeder. Do you notice how you always find a way out of everything? and everyone else or even your dogs were to blame.

When you mentioned that I had said I work out things with people who have disagreements and it was hard for you to believe. Well, that is because I am not dealing with someone who wants to work anything out! You are just wanting to say whatever you want and have everyone who reads it either agree with you and if they don't , according to you they are wrong?? How can anyone work things out with a person not wanting to ??

I won't adress the pedigree thing because everyone is different I was just letting you know that I place my dogs according to the interest in the puppy not the pedigree.

Abiding by your contract with other breeders was simply because I found your ad for the shih tzu / lhasa puppies you had for sale ;0) Thanks for the info...because I find it hard to believe that Dittos mom would ever place a puppy without a dead line to have the dog fixed! Among breeders we tend to follow the same guidelines by 6 months of age. The fact that you even mentioned that the puppy you got from the NC breeder and that it had eye white and a inguinal hernia, leads me to believe you questioned her ethics too. Plus, eye white has nothing to do with anything but a personal preference. A inguinal hernia also is okay as long as the puppy is not for breeding.


Just because you research something does not mean you know what your talking about you are just regurgitating what you read. It takes time and hands on experience to be a expert in a certain thing, you couldn't possibly know it all.

If you don't mind before I can resolve the issue about the reincarnation and animal control, you might want to post the emails that are missing from your previous post. You have three emails showing only dates and times and underneath it says, No response on one and the two others say deleted. Why did you, not post the content of those emails?


Also, I find it very hard to believe that a person would own 5 dogs and they not all live with them. Is not the purpose of getting a dog as a pet, so they can be a companion? Unless of course you are a breeder and co-own dogs, then I would understand. At least I did not lie to my city when they questioned me and did what was honest and right. I do not regard myself above reproach as you have said in previous emails or I would have shown it by not placing my beloved pets. Despite your personal opinions.

If you must have absolutes then reread your emails and see that you were never promised anything nor that the puppy was on hold for you. If not I understand your prespective but am not of the same frame of thought.

I DO NOT THINK ANY BREEDER SHOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH WHAT I HAVE BEEN THROUGH WITH YOU! Or at least any decent breeder, that does not steal from you or scams you or doesn't back up their contracts, etc... This is why I chose to continue answering your post. If other breeders read this and they post something, more power to them. Breeders usually have each others back because they understand each other, as many pet people don't. No matter how much you research, you will never understand, unless you have been a breeder for years, heck I am still learning things and will continue until the day I die.

As for you saying that my babblings as you call it, lol...Just because you don't agree or understand where I am coming from does not mean that they are Psycho babbling. Try the study of human behavior but if you have not then you don't understand and even then we all have our own prespectives.

You are correct that I am not very knowledgeable about the veterinary malpractice suits and what is involved (the likelihood of someone winning is pretty remote IMO, so I haven't ever looked into them much). And the explanation and the tone in particular goes a long way towards changing my feelings about it. Which is a lot of the point I was trying to make in my last posting, but I do feel I maybe went about it the wrong way and do apologize for going about trying to make my point in the exact manner that I was protesting. I still do not agree that Ruth mislead you, but the change in tone' and the actual explanations and discussing goes a long way towards a better understanding of how you might see things. Greg, even though you have said you did not call AC, there is still that impression based on your original post and Ruth's revelations. It is much longer now and harder to read through, but you did not say that it was not you until much later (like around the 13th post or something) after it had been mentioned several times I think. That impression is likely to upset A LOT of people and it will most likely continue to come up, whether it happened or not. It is there for people to form their own opinion about now. And yes, I already know you don't care what my opinion is.
Debating whether it belongs here, well, whether anyone thinks it does or not, it is now here for as long as ROR is. Maybe someone will learn something from it one day :-). WHAT they learn will depend on the person I guess. Whether anyone agrees with anyone else or not, we have all had something to add so far except maybe Jessica from Hawaii, I think. If nothing else, name calling and insults aside, I think this report goes a long way towards showing some of the differences in the way people who live in the animal world and people who own pets may think and perceive things. And maybe a better and more effective way to try and get a point across or how NOT to get a point across :-).
Stefani, thank you for commenting (aside from the personal slurs). The more people expressing their views, the better the learning experience I think. Especially when it's not everybody expressing similar views. Some people understand the meaning behind the name and my actual intentions, and others not so much :-). None of my comments to Mr. Munson were meant to be cruel or vicious. I certainly never said or implied that he had anything to do with Stempy's death. I also said I thought it was tragic and I was sorry for him and my heart goes out to you as well. I never even said it did not have to do with the vet. What I was trying to get across is that his confrontational postings HERE, and the way he was reacting and some of his statements and possible actions could very well put what happened in that situation and his views on it into question. NOT that he was wrong for standing up for what he believed in. It was him which began by attempting to insult and offend me (and others) when I asked some questions and attempted to express another viewpoint and maybe clarify the situation and where he stood and why. You seem to have taken some of our statements a little personally on behalf of Mr. Munson and/or were offended by them even without none of them being directed towards you specifically, is it really that hard for you to see how it could have happened on the flip side? You identify with him and there surely will be others someday and others will identify more with Ruth based on our life paths and experiences. I also personally think it is an indication of her character that it seems to have taken her a lot longer to even appear irritated than anyone else involved in this post. Most of us came out of the gate pawing the ground and ready to charge at what we perceived to be that red flag waived in front of our noses :-). I actually believe that to be understandable based on the emotional issues which arise when animals are discussed and usually try not to take it personally. I do not however consider someone who disagrees with me ignorant because they may have different views and experiences which led them to those views and especially with no knowledge of that person or where their views come from. I can't even think of many instances where I have used the term ever actually.

As far as your wish. Most of us whom live in the animal world (I really can't think of another way to put it, any help with this?) get' far more than you could ever imagine and have probably lived through it, and more than once over any length of time. Ultimately, it is probably the same or similar cause, but we choose to go about it a different way maybe having a little more knowledge , experience and understanding of how things work on that side of things and what we can expect from our vets. No point in ramming our heads against a wall we know we won't likely make a dent in. At some point EVERY vet's opinion, diagnosis, and treatment will be questioned or disagreed with by SOMEBODY, and more often than not. Not to mention how difficult it is to PROVE they had done something wrong based on the actual guidelines set and some other things involved. There are vets whom absolutely have no business practicing, but it is so difficult to PROVE based on several factors. If you can do so, I, and many others will be grateful. Where do you think a lot of the second (or more) opinion and self education and a vet that specializes in the breed and inform IMMEDIATELY of a problem and so on and so on comes from? The horror stories we could tell. I HAVE seen people in trouble concerning their license, and I have seen and/or know of the board's ruling against the vet. My comments about the board have nothing to do with whether I believe they or the vet in question is right or wrong. It quite often comes down to whether or not someone (the more the better) in that field, who was there, can or is willing to say that the records are wrong or misleading and that the actions took are to be considered negligent based on the guidelines set and will be considered GENERALLY negligent by people with knowledge and experience in the field. So your assumption that I have never seen it or been through it is very wrong, I have simply chosen a different tactic I think which I believe to be more effective for myself based on my own perspective and experiences. To discuss vets and my views on them and the things I have seen and the devastation I personally have experienced could take months and probably years if we all traded stories (now that would probably be an interesting post). I wanted to correct the assumption that I couldn't possibly understand the situation or how it feels and address the fact you apparently misunderstood where I was coming from when speaking of the issue. I just have a different understanding and perspective OF the bad vet' situation I think. That does not make me less passionate about the subject and my views on it OR ignorant, and they may not differ all that much from yours and Mr. Munson's in many, many ways. And I want to say again Mr. Munson that I apologize for expressing myself in a similar manner to the one I have been and was objecting to in my last post. *just my opinions*

You are correct that I am not very knowledgeable about the veterinary malpractice suits and what is involved (the likelihood of someone winning is pretty remote IMO, so I haven't ever looked into them much). And the explanation and the tone in particular goes a long way towards changing my feelings about it. Which is a lot of the point I was trying to make in my last posting, but I do feel I maybe went about it the wrong way and do apologize for going about trying to make my point in the exact manner that I was protesting. I still do not agree that Ruth mislead you, but the change in tone' and the actual explanations and discussing goes a long way towards a better understanding of how you might see things. Greg, even though you have said you did not call AC, there is still that impression based on your original post and Ruth's revelations. It is much longer now and harder to read through, but you did not say that it was not you until much later (like around the 13th post or something) after it had been mentioned several times I think. That impression is likely to upset A LOT of people and it will most likely continue to come up, whether it happened or not. It is there for people to form their own opinion about now. And yes, I already know you don't care what my opinion is.
Debating whether it belongs here, well, whether anyone thinks it does or not, it is now here for as long as ROR is. Maybe someone will learn something from it one day :-). WHAT they learn will depend on the person I guess. Whether anyone agrees with anyone else or not, we have all had something to add so far except maybe Jessica from Hawaii, I think. If nothing else, name calling and insults aside, I think this report goes a long way towards showing some of the differences in the way people who live in the animal world and people who own pets may think and perceive things. And maybe a better and more effective way to try and get a point across or how NOT to get a point across :-).
Stefani, thank you for commenting (aside from the personal slurs). The more people expressing their views, the better the learning experience I think. Especially when it's not everybody expressing similar views. Some people understand the meaning behind the name and my actual intentions, and others not so much :-). None of my comments to Mr. Munson were meant to be cruel or vicious. I certainly never said or implied that he had anything to do with Stempy's death. I also said I thought it was tragic and I was sorry for him and my heart goes out to you as well. I never even said it did not have to do with the vet. What I was trying to get across is that his confrontational postings HERE, and the way he was reacting and some of his statements and possible actions could very well put what happened in that situation and his views on it into question. NOT that he was wrong for standing up for what he believed in. It was him which began by attempting to insult and offend me (and others) when I asked some questions and attempted to express another viewpoint and maybe clarify the situation and where he stood and why. You seem to have taken some of our statements a little personally on behalf of Mr. Munson and/or were offended by them even without none of them being directed towards you specifically, is it really that hard for you to see how it could have happened on the flip side? You identify with him and there surely will be others someday and others will identify more with Ruth based on our life paths and experiences. I also personally think it is an indication of her character that it seems to have taken her a lot longer to even appear irritated than anyone else involved in this post. Most of us came out of the gate pawing the ground and ready to charge at what we perceived to be that red flag waived in front of our noses :-). I actually believe that to be understandable based on the emotional issues which arise when animals are discussed and usually try not to take it personally. I do not however consider someone who disagrees with me ignorant because they may have different views and experiences which led them to those views and especially with no knowledge of that person or where their views come from. I can't even think of many instances where I have used the term ever actually.

As far as your wish. Most of us whom live in the animal world (I really can't think of another way to put it, any help with this?) get' far more than you could ever imagine and have probably lived through it, and more than once over any length of time. Ultimately, it is probably the same or similar cause, but we choose to go about it a different way maybe having a little more knowledge , experience and understanding of how things work on that side of things and what we can expect from our vets. No point in ramming our heads against a wall we know we won't likely make a dent in. At some point EVERY vet's opinion, diagnosis, and treatment will be questioned or disagreed with by SOMEBODY, and more often than not. Not to mention how difficult it is to PROVE they had done something wrong based on the actual guidelines set and some other things involved. There are vets whom absolutely have no business practicing, but it is so difficult to PROVE based on several factors. If you can do so, I, and many others will be grateful. Where do you think a lot of the second (or more) opinion and self education and a vet that specializes in the breed and inform IMMEDIATELY of a problem and so on and so on comes from? The horror stories we could tell. I HAVE seen people in trouble concerning their license, and I have seen and/or know of the board's ruling against the vet. My comments about the board have nothing to do with whether I believe they or the vet in question is right or wrong. It quite often comes down to whether or not someone (the more the better) in that field, who was there, can or is willing to say that the records are wrong or misleading and that the actions took are to be considered negligent based on the guidelines set and will be considered GENERALLY negligent by people with knowledge and experience in the field. So your assumption that I have never seen it or been through it is very wrong, I have simply chosen a different tactic I think which I believe to be more effective for myself based on my own perspective and experiences. To discuss vets and my views on them and the things I have seen and the devastation I personally have experienced could take months and probably years if we all traded stories (now that would probably be an interesting post). I wanted to correct the assumption that I couldn't possibly understand the situation or how it feels and address the fact you apparently misunderstood where I was coming from when speaking of the issue. I just have a different understanding and perspective OF the bad vet' situation I think. That does not make me less passionate about the subject and my views on it OR ignorant, and they may not differ all that much from yours and Mr. Munson's in many, many ways. And I want to say again Mr. Munson that I apologize for expressing myself in a similar manner to the one I have been and was objecting to in my last post. *just my opinions*

You are correct that I am not very knowledgeable about the veterinary malpractice suits and what is involved (the likelihood of someone winning is pretty remote IMO, so I haven't ever looked into them much). And the explanation and the tone in particular goes a long way towards changing my feelings about it. Which is a lot of the point I was trying to make in my last posting, but I do feel I maybe went about it the wrong way and do apologize for going about trying to make my point in the exact manner that I was protesting. I still do not agree that Ruth mislead you, but the change in tone' and the actual explanations and discussing goes a long way towards a better understanding of how you might see things. Greg, even though you have said you did not call AC, there is still that impression based on your original post and Ruth's revelations. It is much longer now and harder to read through, but you did not say that it was not you until much later (like around the 13th post or something) after it had been mentioned several times I think. That impression is likely to upset A LOT of people and it will most likely continue to come up, whether it happened or not. It is there for people to form their own opinion about now. And yes, I already know you don't care what my opinion is.
Debating whether it belongs here, well, whether anyone thinks it does or not, it is now here for as long as ROR is. Maybe someone will learn something from it one day :-). WHAT they learn will depend on the person I guess. Whether anyone agrees with anyone else or not, we have all had something to add so far except maybe Jessica from Hawaii, I think. If nothing else, name calling and insults aside, I think this report goes a long way towards showing some of the differences in the way people who live in the animal world and people who own pets may think and perceive things. And maybe a better and more effective way to try and get a point across or how NOT to get a point across :-).
Stefani, thank you for commenting (aside from the personal slurs). The more people expressing their views, the better the learning experience I think. Especially when it's not everybody expressing similar views. Some people understand the meaning behind the name and my actual intentions, and others not so much :-). None of my comments to Mr. Munson were meant to be cruel or vicious. I certainly never said or implied that he had anything to do with Stempy's death. I also said I thought it was tragic and I was sorry for him and my heart goes out to you as well. I never even said it did not have to do with the vet. What I was trying to get across is that his confrontational postings HERE, and the way he was reacting and some of his statements and possible actions could very well put what happened in that situation and his views on it into question. NOT that he was wrong for standing up for what he believed in. It was him which began by attempting to insult and offend me (and others) when I asked some questions and attempted to express another viewpoint and maybe clarify the situation and where he stood and why. You seem to have taken some of our statements a little personally on behalf of Mr. Munson and/or were offended by them even without none of them being directed towards you specifically, is it really that hard for you to see how it could have happened on the flip side? You identify with him and there surely will be others someday and others will identify more with Ruth based on our life paths and experiences. I also personally think it is an indication of her character that it seems to have taken her a lot longer to even appear irritated than anyone else involved in this post. Most of us came out of the gate pawing the ground and ready to charge at what we perceived to be that red flag waived in front of our noses :-). I actually believe that to be understandable based on the emotional issues which arise when animals are discussed and usually try not to take it personally. I do not however consider someone who disagrees with me ignorant because they may have different views and experiences which led them to those views and especially with no knowledge of that person or where their views come from. I can't even think of many instances where I have used the term ever actually.

As far as your wish. Most of us whom live in the animal world (I really can't think of another way to put it, any help with this?) get' far more than you could ever imagine and have probably lived through it, and more than once over any length of time. Ultimately, it is probably the same or similar cause, but we choose to go about it a different way maybe having a little more knowledge , experience and understanding of how things work on that side of things and what we can expect from our vets. No point in ramming our heads against a wall we know we won't likely make a dent in. At some point EVERY vet's opinion, diagnosis, and treatment will be questioned or disagreed with by SOMEBODY, and more often than not. Not to mention how difficult it is to PROVE they had done something wrong based on the actual guidelines set and some other things involved. There are vets whom absolutely have no business practicing, but it is so difficult to PROVE based on several factors. If you can do so, I, and many others will be grateful. Where do you think a lot of the second (or more) opinion and self education and a vet that specializes in the breed and inform IMMEDIATELY of a problem and so on and so on comes from? The horror stories we could tell. I HAVE seen people in trouble concerning their license, and I have seen and/or know of the board's ruling against the vet. My comments about the board have nothing to do with whether I believe they or the vet in question is right or wrong. It quite often comes down to whether or not someone (the more the better) in that field, who was there, can or is willing to say that the records are wrong or misleading and that the actions took are to be considered negligent based on the guidelines set and will be considered GENERALLY negligent by people with knowledge and experience in the field. So your assumption that I have never seen it or been through it is very wrong, I have simply chosen a different tactic I think which I believe to be more effective for myself based on my own perspective and experiences. To discuss vets and my views on them and the things I have seen and the devastation I personally have experienced could take months and probably years if we all traded stories (now that would probably be an interesting post). I wanted to correct the assumption that I couldn't possibly understand the situation or how it feels and address the fact you apparently misunderstood where I was coming from when speaking of the issue. I just have a different understanding and perspective OF the bad vet' situation I think. That does not make me less passionate about the subject and my views on it OR ignorant, and they may not differ all that much from yours and Mr. Munson's in many, many ways. And I want to say again Mr. Munson that I apologize for expressing myself in a similar manner to the one I have been and was objecting to in my last post. *just my opinions*

I must tell you, this has become so exasperating, that I had to chuckle a little bit.

Click the help button. Choose "What is the Ripoff Report?" Here is what it says:

What is the Ripoff Report?
Ripoff Report is a service to the world's consumers. The Ripoff Report enables YOU the consumer to be armed with the opinions and comments of your fellow consumers. This report will help you exercise your first amendment right to freedom of speech. By using our forum, you will have an opportunity to speak out against companies, businesses, governments, and individuals that have treated you unfairly. The bad Business Bureau's ... Ripoff Report will help you do that! Once your report is posted, millions of fellow consumers worldwide will have access to your information!

The key part of that description is "....individuals who have treated you unfairly." You fall squarely into that category for me.

Ruth, I am confident enough in myself and my position to have placed this on here. I believe that if a reasonable person takes the time to read this looooong thread, they will see exactly why I feel the way I do. The people you describe as "creaming" me are nothing more than an irritant. I am still just as confident in my position as I was the day this was posted.

Have you undertaken a deliberate smear campaign against me in your responses? Yes, you most certainly have. You have repeatedly tried to shift the focus from the issues in THIS complaint. I believe that I know why and I think the majority of folks that read this will know why as well. It reflects very poorly on you.

I have withstood your smear campaign, but for the record, I am going to address your various accusations and comments, despite most being irrelevant to THIS complaint..

You stated:

They said they had purchased several males Ch. sired shih tzu as they were looking for the reincarnation of their dog Stempy.

This is an outright lie. We never stated EITHER of these things to you.

I never stated that I called Animal Control on you. You are mistaken.

You stated:

If anyone had a disagreement we worked it out.

Why do I find this hard to believe? That is what I wanted to do. There was an obvious misunderstanding. I wanted to talk to you and clear the air- you know work it out. I asked you to reconsider where you were placing him because I believed that if you read back through the emails, you would easily see why we felt mislead.. I knew you were not going to reconsider, but I still had to ask. I wanted to work out whatever misunderstanding had occurred with the hopes that you would have another tiny boy in the future. You had misinterpreted the tone of my emails and misconstrued my choice of words in my emails. At this point, I had been patient and cordial in ALL of my communications with you.

You stated:

don't ever ask for pedigree's

Why not? It is important to me to find a puppy that is related to Stempy. THAT is the reason I ask to see the pedigree. Also, I want to see the pedigree to see the history of Champions in the pedigree. There are breeders out there who claim there dogs have a champion pedigree when there are actually very few champions at all in the pedigree.

You stated:

...kept your part of the contract with other breeders

Are you referring to Ditto? The contract calls for us to have him neutered IN ORDER TO OBTAIN his AKC limited registration. He has not been neutered and so we have not received his papers, exactly as specified in the contract. That is not breaking the contract. He has never sired any puppies. Much like Stempy, he is too small to reach my females anyway.

Tempy flew to us from North Carolina. He was supposed to be small, but ended up full size. He is champion sired but the breeder failed to disclose his inguinal hernia and eye white until the day of shipping. We don't love him any less because of these imperfections.

Echo is our Lhasa girl we bought around the same time as Ditto.

All 3 needed to be fixed. Unfortunately at that point there was not a single vet that I trusted to put my pups through surgery. Who could blame us after what we had just been through with Stempy? So we put it off and put it off

We had already been successful once at preventing an accidental breeding. Unfortunately, the second time we were not. Tempy got to Echo even though she had TWO sets of panties on. Those two have now been fixed as are our other two dogs.. The pups were placed as pets. My wife cried after each pup was placed. They received the proper veterinary care before being placed. We even wrote up our own contract with a lifetime return home option. We take responsibility for those pups.

Ditto remains un-neutered. Being that he is on the smaller side (7 or 8 lbs but not as small as Stempy), I am still nervous about putting him under anesthesia. There is no chance for an accidental breeding to occur now. We will eventually be brave and get him fixed and I will then request his limited papers from his breeder when we have fulfilled that provision.

So, even though you thought you were destroying us by posting this irrelevant information, you are not. We are not ashamed. There were extenuating circumstances. I believed that I could prevent an accidental breeding. I was wrong. We remedied the situation in spite of our fears.

I am completely confused about who would tell you we were involved in a lawsuit. We have NEVER been involved in a lawsuit and I would not lie to someone about it. Ditto's breeder was told we were waiting on a settlement from the vet's insurance company. That claim was denied and we then filed the complaint with the board. Perhaps they misunderstood?

You state:

Again everything you do, you do on purpose, to harm and hurt and try to destroy someone.

I completely disagree. I do, however, believe that is exactly what you had in mind by posting the irrelevant information.

You state:

I am not quite sure why you are so obsessed with show lines and pedigrees? Could it be that someone turned you down for a full akc shih tzu? Were you frown upon if you ever tried to get into the show ring? If this is true, maybe it was your additude.(sic)

I have already answered regarding my interest in the pedigree. I have never asked to purchase a full akc shih tzu because I am not a breeder. I have never been to a show, much less try to enter the show ring. This is more irrelevant BS in your smear campaign. IN THE FUTURE, after we move, we may CONSIDER entering the show ring. We have not made a definite decision.

Your psycho babble probably fools many people. You do not fool me. In every one of your replies, you are literally looking down your nose at me. In my eyes, you place yourself on an awfully high pedestal that you most certainly do not deserve to be on.

What you dealt with from me was a reaction, not simply an emotion. [Reaction is used to refer both to an instant response (her reaction was one of amazement) and to a considered response in the form of a statement (the Minister gave his reaction to the court's decision).] .
.
You state:

"The ignoring part you say I did was simply, me just drawing the boundary lines of what I would allow over my personal life and my emotions and the end result of what I would do with them."

Ruth, it did not involve "just you." Definition of ignore: to disregard willfully and causelessly.

I would call your behavior inconsiderate. Definition: inconsiderate - lacking regard for the rights or feelings of others; "shockingly inconsiderate behavior"

I would call your behavior disrespectful. Definition: disrespectful - having or showing lack of respect; discourteous; impolite; rude.

I would call your behavior misleading. Definition: misleading - to lead in a wrong direction or into a mistaken action or belief often by deliberate deceit.

While this is your hobby and/or business, you ARE dealing with OTHER people. While it is your right to conduct your business any way you choose, you have also placed yourself out in the public eye. As such, it is a reasonable expectation of a prospective customer to expect 'common courtesy.' Definition: common courtesy - code that governs the expectations of social behavior, according to the contemporary conventional norm. .

Why would I want to do business with you after your negative behavior? Because I was hoping you were simply mistaken. I just could not believe your actions were intentional because they WERE so inconsiderate. As I sadly learned, your actions WERE intentional and VERY inconsiderate.

Anyway, we are both getting nowhere so as you said, we will have to agree to disagree. It did not have to be this way.

If you ever get a chance, we would love to see a picture of the pup all grown up. Thank you.

I must tell you, this has become so exasperating, that I had to chuckle a little bit.

Click the help button. Choose "What is the Ripoff Report?" Here is what it says:

What is the Ripoff Report?
Ripoff Report is a service to the world's consumers. The Ripoff Report enables YOU the consumer to be armed with the opinions and comments of your fellow consumers. This report will help you exercise your first amendment right to freedom of speech. By using our forum, you will have an opportunity to speak out against companies, businesses, governments, and individuals that have treated you unfairly. The bad Business Bureau's ... Ripoff Report will help you do that! Once your report is posted, millions of fellow consumers worldwide will have access to your information!

The key part of that description is "....individuals who have treated you unfairly." You fall squarely into that category for me.

Ruth, I am confident enough in myself and my position to have placed this on here. I believe that if a reasonable person takes the time to read this looooong thread, they will see exactly why I feel the way I do. The people you describe as "creaming" me are nothing more than an irritant. I am still just as confident in my position as I was the day this was posted.

Have you undertaken a deliberate smear campaign against me in your responses? Yes, you most certainly have. You have repeatedly tried to shift the focus from the issues in THIS complaint. I believe that I know why and I think the majority of folks that read this will know why as well. It reflects very poorly on you.

I have withstood your smear campaign, but for the record, I am going to address your various accusations and comments, despite most being irrelevant to THIS complaint..

You stated:

They said they had purchased several males Ch. sired shih tzu as they were looking for the reincarnation of their dog Stempy.

This is an outright lie. We never stated EITHER of these things to you.

I never stated that I called Animal Control on you. You are mistaken.

You stated:

If anyone had a disagreement we worked it out.

Why do I find this hard to believe? That is what I wanted to do. There was an obvious misunderstanding. I wanted to talk to you and clear the air- you know work it out. I asked you to reconsider where you were placing him because I believed that if you read back through the emails, you would easily see why we felt mislead.. I knew you were not going to reconsider, but I still had to ask. I wanted to work out whatever misunderstanding had occurred with the hopes that you would have another tiny boy in the future. You had misinterpreted the tone of my emails and misconstrued my choice of words in my emails. At this point, I had been patient and cordial in ALL of my communications with you.

You stated:

don't ever ask for pedigree's

Why not? It is important to me to find a puppy that is related to Stempy. THAT is the reason I ask to see the pedigree. Also, I want to see the pedigree to see the history of Champions in the pedigree. There are breeders out there who claim there dogs have a champion pedigree when there are actually very few champions at all in the pedigree.

You stated:

...kept your part of the contract with other breeders

Are you referring to Ditto? The contract calls for us to have him neutered IN ORDER TO OBTAIN his AKC limited registration. He has not been neutered and so we have not received his papers, exactly as specified in the contract. That is not breaking the contract. He has never sired any puppies. Much like Stempy, he is too small to reach my females anyway.

Tempy flew to us from North Carolina. He was supposed to be small, but ended up full size. He is champion sired but the breeder failed to disclose his inguinal hernia and eye white until the day of shipping. We don't love him any less because of these imperfections.

Echo is our Lhasa girl we bought around the same time as Ditto.

All 3 needed to be fixed. Unfortunately at that point there was not a single vet that I trusted to put my pups through surgery. Who could blame us after what we had just been through with Stempy? So we put it off and put it off

We had already been successful once at preventing an accidental breeding. Unfortunately, the second time we were not. Tempy got to Echo even though she had TWO sets of panties on. Those two have now been fixed as are our other two dogs.. The pups were placed as pets. My wife cried after each pup was placed. They received the proper veterinary care before being placed. We even wrote up our own contract with a lifetime return home option. We take responsibility for those pups.

Ditto remains un-neutered. Being that he is on the smaller side (7 or 8 lbs but not as small as Stempy), I am still nervous about putting him under anesthesia. There is no chance for an accidental breeding to occur now. We will eventually be brave and get him fixed and I will then request his limited papers from his breeder when we have fulfilled that provision.

So, even though you thought you were destroying us by posting this irrelevant information, you are not. We are not ashamed. There were extenuating circumstances. I believed that I could prevent an accidental breeding. I was wrong. We remedied the situation in spite of our fears.

I am completely confused about who would tell you we were involved in a lawsuit. We have NEVER been involved in a lawsuit and I would not lie to someone about it. Ditto's breeder was told we were waiting on a settlement from the vet's insurance company. That claim was denied and we then filed the complaint with the board. Perhaps they misunderstood?

You state:

Again everything you do, you do on purpose, to harm and hurt and try to destroy someone.

I completely disagree. I do, however, believe that is exactly what you had in mind by posting the irrelevant information.

You state:

I am not quite sure why you are so obsessed with show lines and pedigrees? Could it be that someone turned you down for a full akc shih tzu? Were you frown upon if you ever tried to get into the show ring? If this is true, maybe it was your additude.(sic)

I have already answered regarding my interest in the pedigree. I have never asked to purchase a full akc shih tzu because I am not a breeder. I have never been to a show, much less try to enter the show ring. This is more irrelevant BS in your smear campaign. IN THE FUTURE, after we move, we may CONSIDER entering the show ring. We have not made a definite decision.

Your psycho babble probably fools many people. You do not fool me. In every one of your replies, you are literally looking down your nose at me. In my eyes, you place yourself on an awfully high pedestal that you most certainly do not deserve to be on.

What you dealt with from me was a reaction, not simply an emotion. [Reaction is used to refer both to an instant response (her reaction was one of amazement) and to a considered response in the form of a statement (the Minister gave his reaction to the court's decision).] .
.
You state:

"The ignoring part you say I did was simply, me just drawing the boundary lines of what I would allow over my personal life and my emotions and the end result of what I would do with them."

Ruth, it did not involve "just you." Definition of ignore: to disregard willfully and causelessly.

I would call your behavior inconsiderate. Definition: inconsiderate - lacking regard for the rights or feelings of others; "shockingly inconsiderate behavior"

I would call your behavior disrespectful. Definition: disrespectful - having or showing lack of respect; discourteous; impolite; rude.

I would call your behavior misleading. Definition: misleading - to lead in a wrong direction or into a mistaken action or belief often by deliberate deceit.

While this is your hobby and/or business, you ARE dealing with OTHER people. While it is your right to conduct your business any way you choose, you have also placed yourself out in the public eye. As such, it is a reasonable expectation of a prospective customer to expect 'common courtesy.' Definition: common courtesy - code that governs the expectations of social behavior, according to the contemporary conventional norm. .

Why would I want to do business with you after your negative behavior? Because I was hoping you were simply mistaken. I just could not believe your actions were intentional because they WERE so inconsiderate. As I sadly learned, your actions WERE intentional and VERY inconsiderate.

Anyway, we are both getting nowhere so as you said, we will have to agree to disagree. It did not have to be this way.

If you ever get a chance, we would love to see a picture of the pup all grown up. Thank you.

I must tell you, this has become so exasperating, that I had to chuckle a little bit.

Click the help button. Choose "What is the Ripoff Report?" Here is what it says:

What is the Ripoff Report?
Ripoff Report is a service to the world's consumers. The Ripoff Report enables YOU the consumer to be armed with the opinions and comments of your fellow consumers. This report will help you exercise your first amendment right to freedom of speech. By using our forum, you will have an opportunity to speak out against companies, businesses, governments, and individuals that have treated you unfairly. The bad Business Bureau's ... Ripoff Report will help you do that! Once your report is posted, millions of fellow consumers worldwide will have access to your information!

The key part of that description is "....individuals who have treated you unfairly." You fall squarely into that category for me.

Ruth, I am confident enough in myself and my position to have placed this on here. I believe that if a reasonable person takes the time to read this looooong thread, they will see exactly why I feel the way I do. The people you describe as "creaming" me are nothing more than an irritant. I am still just as confident in my position as I was the day this was posted.

Have you undertaken a deliberate smear campaign against me in your responses? Yes, you most certainly have. You have repeatedly tried to shift the focus from the issues in THIS complaint. I believe that I know why and I think the majority of folks that read this will know why as well. It reflects very poorly on you.

I have withstood your smear campaign, but for the record, I am going to address your various accusations and comments, despite most being irrelevant to THIS complaint..

You stated:

They said they had purchased several males Ch. sired shih tzu as they were looking for the reincarnation of their dog Stempy.

This is an outright lie. We never stated EITHER of these things to you.

I never stated that I called Animal Control on you. You are mistaken.

You stated:

If anyone had a disagreement we worked it out.

Why do I find this hard to believe? That is what I wanted to do. There was an obvious misunderstanding. I wanted to talk to you and clear the air- you know work it out. I asked you to reconsider where you were placing him because I believed that if you read back through the emails, you would easily see why we felt mislead.. I knew you were not going to reconsider, but I still had to ask. I wanted to work out whatever misunderstanding had occurred with the hopes that you would have another tiny boy in the future. You had misinterpreted the tone of my emails and misconstrued my choice of words in my emails. At this point, I had been patient and cordial in ALL of my communications with you.

You stated:

don't ever ask for pedigree's

Why not? It is important to me to find a puppy that is related to Stempy. THAT is the reason I ask to see the pedigree. Also, I want to see the pedigree to see the history of Champions in the pedigree. There are breeders out there who claim there dogs have a champion pedigree when there are actually very few champions at all in the pedigree.

You stated:

...kept your part of the contract with other breeders

Are you referring to Ditto? The contract calls for us to have him neutered IN ORDER TO OBTAIN his AKC limited registration. He has not been neutered and so we have not received his papers, exactly as specified in the contract. That is not breaking the contract. He has never sired any puppies. Much like Stempy, he is too small to reach my females anyway.

Tempy flew to us from North Carolina. He was supposed to be small, but ended up full size. He is champion sired but the breeder failed to disclose his inguinal hernia and eye white until the day of shipping. We don't love him any less because of these imperfections.

Echo is our Lhasa girl we bought around the same time as Ditto.

All 3 needed to be fixed. Unfortunately at that point there was not a single vet that I trusted to put my pups through surgery. Who could blame us after what we had just been through with Stempy? So we put it off and put it off

We had already been successful once at preventing an accidental breeding. Unfortunately, the second time we were not. Tempy got to Echo even though she had TWO sets of panties on. Those two have now been fixed as are our other two dogs.. The pups were placed as pets. My wife cried after each pup was placed. They received the proper veterinary care before being placed. We even wrote up our own contract with a lifetime return home option. We take responsibility for those pups.

Ditto remains un-neutered. Being that he is on the smaller side (7 or 8 lbs but not as small as Stempy), I am still nervous about putting him under anesthesia. There is no chance for an accidental breeding to occur now. We will eventually be brave and get him fixed and I will then request his limited papers from his breeder when we have fulfilled that provision.

So, even though you thought you were destroying us by posting this irrelevant information, you are not. We are not ashamed. There were extenuating circumstances. I believed that I could prevent an accidental breeding. I was wrong. We remedied the situation in spite of our fears.

I am completely confused about who would tell you we were involved in a lawsuit. We have NEVER been involved in a lawsuit and I would not lie to someone about it. Ditto's breeder was told we were waiting on a settlement from the vet's insurance company. That claim was denied and we then filed the complaint with the board. Perhaps they misunderstood?

You state:

Again everything you do, you do on purpose, to harm and hurt and try to destroy someone.

I completely disagree. I do, however, believe that is exactly what you had in mind by posting the irrelevant information.

You state:

I am not quite sure why you are so obsessed with show lines and pedigrees? Could it be that someone turned you down for a full akc shih tzu? Were you frown upon if you ever tried to get into the show ring? If this is true, maybe it was your additude.(sic)

I have already answered regarding my interest in the pedigree. I have never asked to purchase a full akc shih tzu because I am not a breeder. I have never been to a show, much less try to enter the show ring. This is more irrelevant BS in your smear campaign. IN THE FUTURE, after we move, we may CONSIDER entering the show ring. We have not made a definite decision.

Your psycho babble probably fools many people. You do not fool me. In every one of your replies, you are literally looking down your nose at me. In my eyes, you place yourself on an awfully high pedestal that you most certainly do not deserve to be on.

What you dealt with from me was a reaction, not simply an emotion. [Reaction is used to refer both to an instant response (her reaction was one of amazement) and to a considered response in the form of a statement (the Minister gave his reaction to the court's decision).] .
.
You state:

"The ignoring part you say I did was simply, me just drawing the boundary lines of what I would allow over my personal life and my emotions and the end result of what I would do with them."

Ruth, it did not involve "just you." Definition of ignore: to disregard willfully and causelessly.

I would call your behavior inconsiderate. Definition: inconsiderate - lacking regard for the rights or feelings of others; "shockingly inconsiderate behavior"

I would call your behavior disrespectful. Definition: disrespectful - having or showing lack of respect; discourteous; impolite; rude.

I would call your behavior misleading. Definition: misleading - to lead in a wrong direction or into a mistaken action or belief often by deliberate deceit.

While this is your hobby and/or business, you ARE dealing with OTHER people. While it is your right to conduct your business any way you choose, you have also placed yourself out in the public eye. As such, it is a reasonable expectation of a prospective customer to expect 'common courtesy.' Definition: common courtesy - code that governs the expectations of social behavior, according to the contemporary conventional norm. .

Why would I want to do business with you after your negative behavior? Because I was hoping you were simply mistaken. I just could not believe your actions were intentional because they WERE so inconsiderate. As I sadly learned, your actions WERE intentional and VERY inconsiderate.

Anyway, we are both getting nowhere so as you said, we will have to agree to disagree. It did not have to be this way.

If you ever get a chance, we would love to see a picture of the pup all grown up. Thank you.

From Home page of this website: Key words....VICTIM OF A CONSUMER RIP-OFF?WANT JUSTICE? I assume they want everyone to take everything they write into context not just parts. They themselves say, they do not guarntee that all reports are authentic or accurate, showing that invalidation can occur.


Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice?
Ripoff Report is a worldwide consumer reporting Web site and publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file and document complaints about companies or individuals. While we encourage and even require authors to only file truthful reports, Ripoff Report does not guarantee that all reports are authenic or accurate. Be an educated consumer. Read what you can and make your decision based upon an examination of all available information.

Also from the Home page: From what I am reading it has to do with being an ACTUAL CUSTOMER OF THE SAID COMPANY OR BUSINESS? Concerning FRAUD! that never happened?? Not feelings or emotions or assumptions or misunderstandings.


Helping you, the consumer...
Search the Ripoff Report before you do business with retail stores with bad return policies, checking & credit theft, rebate fraud or other unscrupulous business policies such as phony auto repairs, auto dealer bait-and-switch tactics, restaurants with bad service or food, corrupt government employees & politicians, police corruption, home builders, contractors, unethical doctors & lawyers, online stores that sell non-existent products, dead beat dads & moms, landlords & tenants, fraudulent employment & business opportunities, and individual con artists who scam consumers

The following is to try and help one final time to shed some light on this situation:

This is from your last posting:

This report is a complaint about interactions with Ruth Beasley as a potential customer and what I believed to be misleading, improper, and disrespectful consideration of us as potential customers and as fellow human beings.

I hope that in the future if someone has concerns or there is a misunderstanding that you will address their concerns instead of ignoring them and then blaming them. Have consideration for the other person's feelings


The blame you spoke about was strictly geared towards, you as a individual and that you are the only one who has the power to choose how you feel about things that happen in this life. You alone govern over your emotions and the end result of what you do with them.

The ignoring part you say I did was simply, me just drawing the boundary lines of what I would allow over my personal life and my emotions and the end result of what I would do with them.


Likewise: I also hope you have learned that when you deal with a individual remember they also have feelings and boundaries they choose to set for themselves. These are their perogatives in life. The way they conduct their business ( with the exception of fraud ) is their right. If you don't like it I would hope you would run not just walk away but run from that situation. If you truly felt it was improper and misleading and disrespectful, why would you still want to do business with me?

If they choose not to do business with you, then just walk away, there are people better for you to click with, out there in this life that would help you in what you need. But if you make the decision to get the public involved then this type of thing is what is going to happen. Not everyone thinks like you nor I. This is a risk you alone took. As for me I am good, I can handle it ;0)

My problems with you were, the way you wanted to argue with me about why I had placed the puppy? (questioning my decision making process and right) I had just met you by email??

You chose to believe that I had done you wrong?? ( acussatory) despite my effort to explain to you, what I had understood. ( you showed me no trust). Again there has to be trust for me to do business with anyone from both parties.

You asked me to reconsider my decision of who I had placed the puppy with, because your wife was upset and you had already saved pics of him, something of the sort ( asking me to go against my word that I had already given someone) not the ethics I grew up with nor try to maintain.

Asking me to do this would have been, something that would have been worse from my point of view. If I give you my word then I will live up to it, unless something really serious causes me to change, my mind. That is one of the reasons, I have kept pointing out that I never promised you anything.

Had I promised you or lead you to believe by saying that you could send a deposit or gotten further with the interview process, then maybe all this would have been valid in my eyes. But because you don't know me like that I can understand your misunderstanding.


When I said I would never place a puppy with you ( was because we are so different and I saw that from the beginning). I do my best to lead personal relationships with my customers and I babysit, have dinner with some, talk on the phone or email on a regular basis for years with them. I am a little different than most breeders but that is just me. Not because of anything else.

Which in turn, to me, it would not be in the best interest of the puppy because I would not be able to find out what would have happened to him or her and keep up with my lines and see if there were any defects that I should be aware of and stop those lines from continuing. Your personality simply clashes with mine and we can never do business, my choice. I am truly sorry for that. But I just won't go there.

THIS IS FROM YOUR LAST POSTING AND A PRIOR EMAIL:

If you had done so to begin with, I would have never have felt the need to post this report.



Are these not words that lay blame for your actions on me? You have said several times, that I did not take responsiblity but then again are you not doing the same?

Yes, there were other avenues to follow in this situation, you chose this one, not I. Personally, I would have put my big girl panties on and chaulked it up as an experience not to assume unless there was a definate agreement in writing to the sale of anything and money was placed to assure the mutual agreement.

Sometimes, feelings need to be left aside and logic must come into play. I am a female and most certainly know that emotions can get you into trouble and I have learned to control them with Gods help. But that is just me. I am kind of surprised because the guys in my life tend to be more logical and slow to anger or fly off the handle in my family. In fact I would assume they were emotionally dead if they were not breathing, lol... Though there are few females, in this world, that have more of a male tendency for whatever reasons but deep down inside they are females.


My reason for writing the invalidation of opinions posting was based upon the fact that it seemed you were getting creamed. I hate to see that happen to a person, even when, I believe it to be right or wrong. I value people, despite anything and all they do. Including Stefani Olsen who was also a 3rd party in this situation as were the rest of those who posted their opinions. I welcomed all, not just some but then again that is just me;0)

If you disagree in my invalidation then that also means that everything I wrote and everyone else wrote is valid. The invalidation was geared towards not letting people take it so personal and to live and let live and not continue to cause harm and for those who had already allowed words or name calling to hurt them, that they understand these are just a individuals opinions. It was to help not hurt ;(

About the lawsuit that I mentioned, in a earlier posting, well this was from information from a individual that YOU told it to. Not my assumptions. They said you had told them you had one pending but they did not think you would have the money to continue it for long. Probably because at the time you told them you had not found out what it would take to continue nor that it would do you any good financially. Anyway, that is irregardless to the situation.

THIS IS FROM YOUR LAST POSTING:

Yes, I let you have it in my final email to you, but that was my reaction to being ignored, then blamed and unfairly disqualified. What did you expect?


Well, I don't have a big problem with rejection or abandonment and have gotten over my insecurities, so that helps when dealing with the normal public and private dissapointments. That does not mean that others are like myself but you asked what I expected. I guess I expected you to behave like me but you are not me ;0)

I hope I have shed a little more light in this situation but I am starting to run out of ways to help you understand. That does not mean I believe you should agree, just as I understand where you are coming from but I don't agree. Just as simple as that and life goes on ;0)

Ruth,

While you are correct in the sense that I was not ripped off monetarily, I do not believe (this is my opinion) this site is here solely for that one thing. In fact, on the home page of this site it states..."to file and document complaints about companies or individuals."

What I have filed would be considered a complaint, and not necessarily a rip off. In fact, I will clarify that right now....

I was not ripped off by Panda's Shih Tzu aka Panda Shih Tzu's (sic) aka Ruth Beasley monetarily.

This report is a complaint about interactions with Ruth Beasley as a potential customer and what I believed to be misleading, improper, and disrespectful consideration of us as potential customers and as fellow human beings.

I hope that in the future if someone has concerns or there is a misunderstanding that you will address their concerns instead of ignoring them and then blaming them. Have consideration for the other person's feelings.

If you had done so to begin with, I would have never have felt the need to post this report.

Yes, I let you have it in my final email to you, but that was my reaction to being ignored, then blamed and unfairly disqualified. What did you expect?
---------------------------------
To Las Vegas No Name - To my knowledge, ALL email is posted. I have not intentionally omitted any emails. I believe this is all of our correspondence.

Obviously, you are not very knowledgeable about veterinary malpractice lawsuits or the complaint processes with the various state boards. I have done much research. It would have cost us $50k to $100k or more to sue. If we prevailed, we would have been awarded the court's perceived replacement value - maybe $500. It did not make financial sense for us to pursue a lawsuit.

In small claims court, you still need an expert witness and ours was in another state. It would have cost more to bring in an expert witness than what we would have been able to recover.

Not that this was any of your business anyway, but now you know.
---------------------------------
To Stefani - Thank you for your kind comments. It is very much appreciated.

Thank you to all who have expressed their opinions aka beliefs in this situation ;0)

I would like to ask any and all who post on this page to, PLEASE, not allow our indifference's to cause anyone to resort to name calling or cross boundaries that should be respected.

I understand how some postings can seem related to each other but that could also be said of Stefani Olsen of Silver Spring Maryland.

The only thing it means to me, is that we simply are similar in thought, based on our upbringing or experiences in life.

It seems that Mr. Greg Munson and Stefani Olsen are the same in thought because of their love for their pets and what they are doing to better themselves.

As for myself and the rest of the people on this page, well it seems we are the same in thought ALSO because of the love we have for our pets and what we are doing to better ourselves.

One thing stands true of all of us, we are all human.

A title simply, such as a job ( Vet, IT Manager, Nurse, ) or mistake we have made in life ( driving violation, overdose, misunderstanding, etc...) or what people say about you, such as (this page) does not define who you are!

What we believe about ourselves, is based on our own set of ethics and principals how we live our lives is where we find our definition. No one else has that right over you. A person chooses what they believe and how they allow it to affect their life. Mine are based upon ( christian ethics written in my bible).

What does all that have to do with anything, simply this: Everything written on this page has become totally invalidated! Yes, sadly the entire page from top to bottom, even what I am writing ;0) Because these are my thoughts and beliefs written on this posting.

This website from my understanding was originally written for Actual Customers, who were monetarily ripped off and since no one was monetarily ripped off this whole page becomes invalidated. Because it is only based upon opinions.


I saw this and thought, I would share, since this is a sharing page;0)


What! Get to heaven on your own strength? Why, you might as well try to climb to the moon on a rope of sand! George Whitefield

I have read this entire thread, and "Devil" in Las Vegas and Jessica, you both need to butt out. You claim to be unrelated to this situation, but your viscious and cruel attacks on Mr. Munson make these claims unbelievable.

I have read the communication thread posted by Mr. Munson between himself and the breeder. I can totally understand why he would have had the impression that he had the inside track on this dog -- the breeder definitely led him to believe that, and no wonder he was very shocked and disappointed to learn she had given him to someone else. Perhaps she leads multiple buyers to believe they are #1 and then later makes the decision she ** feels ** is best for the dog without really letting all parties know what is going on. In any case, from what I can see, the primary problem between the breeder and potential buyer Munson is one of communication, and hopefully they have both learned something from that experience.

My real problem is with you 3rd party people. As someone whose pet was left brain damaged by a veterinary-administered insulin overdose, and who also saw no fitting justice done through the system, like Mr. Munson I have become an activist on the issue as a way to fight for the honor and memory of my dearly departed friend. The fact that Mr. Munson went after the vet whose botched surgery he believes killed his best loved pet is a testament to the depth of his love for his animals. For you people to sling hurtful ignorant insults at him, or even imply that somehow his character is in question for him doing that, is completely unfair and unhinged.

Frankly if I were a breeder -- and I'm not -- I would be looking for someone who would put themselves on the line for their pets, in every way, as Mr. Munson has done in memory of Stempy.

You are making many comments that demonstrate that you have no real knowledge of how the veterinary board system works. They dismiss valid complants every day. The more harm is done to a pet, the LESS likely they are to take action. This is provable with analysis of their actions.

Your cruel comments like "you probably killed Stempy yourself" are not only ridiculous, deliberately hurtful and ignorant, but no one as naiive and cruel as you should EVER be able to have pets.

Perhaps if you had been through what we had been through with vets, you would "get it." I would wish such an education on you so you wouldn't be so ignorant and mean, but if I did, it would mean wishing something bad on your pets, which I would never do. All pets deserve better than what happened to ours, even the pets of mean ignorant people. After all, it's not their fault you are mean and ignorant.

And are apparently unstable and unreasonable, not to mention vicious, vindictive, spiteful, and a very, very angry person in general among other things. I won't bring your wife into this because we haven't heard from her, and people like you can often have a much more kind, stable, and reasonable partner or spouse. Often, not always. Does she know what you are doing and the impression you may be giving people of the two of you? Does she agree?

You will have no problem finding an open and honest breeder? How long have you been looking again? And we know from previous statements it is not just because you haven't found someone whom meets YOUR requirements, so that is clearly not the reason. You clearly didn't need this report to make your search difficult, but you have certainly added to the already long list of huge warning signs. Huge flashing neon signs. Yes Greg, word will travel but it is clearly your own doing. And now you talk about slander?
You respond to anyone who disagrees with you by spewing insults, venom and hatred. You wanted to involve the public in this, and now that you have you clearly don't like the results and the fact that there has yet to be someone whom agrees with you. Maybe someone still will one day. Who knows? You have clearly treated someone who was far more kind and patient towards you than you have any right to expect very, very badly. You have damaged you credibility concerning your views on what happened to Stempy (in addition to the fact that the state board apparently did not agree with you and that is probably the REAL reason there was no lawsuit). You don't actually want to discuss the situation, especially when you are questioned. You prefer to see your version of right and wrong only as they apply to you apparently. It seems that everything in your world is only how it applies to you and doesn't apply in your dealings with other people. Your feedback is of your own making.

How about posting the emails you left out? You are not giving anyone a reason to even try and see things from your point of view.
I am also wondering if you have ever looked into NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) or if anyone has ever suggested it? You or some people who know you may want to look it up. Displaying at least 5 out of the 9 traits could make this disorder a possibility. You appear to me to be showing a few of these traits in this post, but they may only apply to certain situations where you're concerned. *just my opinions*

Wow again.

These "buyers" are obviously absolutely nuts. Everyone reading this report can tell that they shouldn't own any pets, and hopefully aren't parents. I actually got an email from a friend of mine with a link to this story to read about "Laura" and her quest, through a psychic (!) to replace her dead dog, Stempy. What an nutcase!!! No sane breeder would place a dog with these people!
Now they are attempting to use the internet to smear this poor woman and disrupting her life, and she continues to respond with patience and kindness. I certainly wouldn't be that nice.
Laura, everyone reading this report has you pegged for a dangerous and cruel person. You probably killed Stempy yourself.

Hey Laura,

You got a LOT of nerve, don't you? You have your own problems and you want to judge me? You are an inexperienced breeder yourself, so your opinion holds VERY little weight. How long have you owned Shih Tzu? Less than 5 years on breeding, right Laura? What is this POWER trip you are on? Do you think that YOU are important? GROW UP.

It is VERY clear where the misunderstanding occurred. If YOU cannot see it, then I would not want to do business with you either. There are plenty of open and honest breeders out there and believe me, I'll have NO trouble finding one.

Slander? I believe that is what you are doing to me & my wife in your response. As far as my comments, they are all TRUE. In case you didn't know, the TRUTH is an absolute defense in cases of slander. It's NOT slander if it's the truth. The slanderous comments you have made against me & my wife and your threats of spreading slanderous lies about us are not taken lightly. The threats and derogatory comments are NOT appreciated and you are walking a very fine line.

For the last time, I never said I reported this person to animal control. Quit trying to blame me for something you know nothing about. You are barking up the wrong tree.

I have never in my life read such a pathetic report or story & from what I have read Greg & Cindy Munson both need some very extensive Psychiatric help not with a psychic but with a very good therapist & maybe some good meds.
It's no wonder your dog died if it endured living in such hateful & negative conditions. I feel for this poor lady who's only mistake that I can find is ever replying to your first email.
I myself would have deleted it & blocked you at the first sign of harassment which you have clearly done to this lady. I know many professional breeders & handlers of the shih tzu breed & will be sure to warn them of your malicious intent when things don't go your way. Any novice breeder as well as breeders with 25 or more experience in our breed know that there are always disappointments & trials not only in dogs but in life as well. If everyone acted out as you have imagine what a world it would be. Your behavior is unacceptable in the real world as well as in the show ring & I can assure you that you will not be warmly welcomed nor trusted with nice dogs in the future from any reputable & well thought of members of the American Shih Tzu club. Believe me word travels fast & you might want to hunt your next unsuspecting victim somewhere else besides the U.S because we all know who you are & where your motives truly lie. Get a life & quit stalking people & go get some help with your issues please.

Oh, & by the way did you know that making false reports or
"Slander" or being that you are so fond of definitions here you go.
slander (slndr) KEY

NOUN:

Law Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

is against the law especially being that you have never even been to the lady's home or seen her dogs in person. Sure didn't stop you from wanting one of her dogs really bad enough so to stalk her & slander her on the Internet. One would have to question why someone would want a puppy that was mistreated enough to be turned into city officials. What was your complaint, that you smelled dog crap via email. Yet another reason ALL BREEDERS who read this will NEVER do business with you because you will most likely do the same thing if not worse to them.

Thank you, Ruth, VERY MUCH for the update on Cowboy/ aka Max. You didn't have to update me on him, but you did, and I want you to know that I appreciate it.

The 'sitting on your shoulder' thing soooooooo reminds me of Stempy! So is he about 9 months old now? If so, then he is probably as big as he is going to get - frame wise, right? If it wouldn't be too much trouble, I would LOVE to see a recent picture of him.

That is de ja vu on him ending up with an eye doctor. I'm happy for him.

Though you STILL may not agree with my opinion, I hope that you can AT LEAST now see things from our perspective and understand why we reacted the way we did.

If there is one thing that I am not - that is shy. I am outspoken and will not shy away from giving you my opinion - perhaps sometimes to my own detriment - but that is just me. Email is not the easiest format in which to communicate. Very often things get taken out of context. Voice inflection over the phone and facial expression in person are KEY elements of communication that are missing when communicating solely by email. That is why I wanted to talk to you on the phone. I felt then that you would much better understand me.

Ruth, please, go back and look. I did not call you a name until the very last email that I sent - AFTER you had told me that you would NEVER place a puppy with me.

How about this? Here is something I bet we can BOTH be in agreement on....

....our love of this breed. Right? There is just no other breed as special as the Shih Tzu in my opinion. As the saying goes, "If it's not a Shih Tzu, it's just a dog."

There is much more that I would like to discuss and share with you in a civil manner that I think would be helpful to us both, but I do not feel like sharing it all in a public forum. Are you willing to accept an email or two from me? If not, that is fine, that is your right and I will not email.

Greg and Cindy,

From the beginning I answered your questions but never in my mind did I think you thought the puppy had been placed on hold for you. In all my years of having this hobby of raising Shih Tzu. I never once had a complaint such as yours.

My methods of selecting a home for my puppies is one that has been very effective to this point.

Actually, from the time a person emails me concerning a interest on a puppy, I do a extensive background search. If we get to level 2 of my process, I spend a couple of bucks and do a more extensive background search on them. By the time they come to visit me I know more than they know about me.

After you emailed and I answered you some emails. I did have several other emails concerning Cowboy and his siblings and the other litter I had. So, as you can see I was answering all kinds of email at the time. No, I am not trying to justify myself.

I then got a phone call from a previous customer. At that point I was very happy to hear from them and chose their home for Cowboy. I knew for a fact that they would love him unconditionally ( I am not saying you would have not). I am just saying that I already knew them and they me and they were calling to get him, no questions asked they wanted him.

They didn't call just to ask about him but to make sure, he was for them.

I didn't think anything of it as I said, to me I was just answering your emails and had yet to go any further with you based on my findings or at least my opinion about who you were. You may not have agreed with it but I thought I was being considerate to let all those that email me along with you that I had found him a home. You were the only one that emailed me back with a complaint. All the others just emailed to say they got the message or that they still wanted a puppy from me.

It was at that moment that you emailed me with Rhetoric which I don't take very kindly to. After a few emails of the same I chose to cease communication with you.

Now, as to what happened to Cowboy. Well, lets see one of his siblings while playing scratched his eye. I took him to the vet and they took a look at him and prescribed him the meds he needed. I placed him apart from that moment on and gave him the medical attention he needed and spoiled him rotten.

I then alerted his new owner and they still wanted him no matter what. I always give my customers the truth about their puppies and offer them a way out as I want all my babies to go where they are going to be happy. I also offered her a discount for any minor eye scarring that might be left behind after the eye ulcer had healed. Well, he was my spoiled baby and sat on my shoulder like a bird, while I worked on my computer. It took longer than we thought for his eye to heal. After several vet visits, I took him to the eye specialist.

I had them run several test on him to make sure there was no congenital defects and there was not. Just as we thought he was healed and ready to go home his poor little eye got cloudy again. Well, it seems Mr. Cowboy was being bad at night time, I went in to check on him in the wee hours of the night and caught him scratching his face on the pet bed, lol.... The mystery was solved. So, as you can see I don't mind spending money on my babies. His vet bill was around 500.00. This is not the first puppy that I spend that type of money on in order to make sure he or she is healthy and sound prior to placing in their new homes.

That did not include the c-section that I paid for his mother to have him and his two sisters. Raising shih tzu the right way does not make you enough money to live off of. His original priced was based on how long he would be here and how much upkeep the smaller ones need and how many vet visits they require as all the other leave at 8 wks of age. My dogs have their own credit card for emergencies. I am not rich nor am I poor. But what I have is used very wisely to care and up keep my babies.

After a few more visits to the specialist, he was cleared to go home. Well, his new owners had a family emergency and were beside themselves as they had anticipated his arrival. He had already been paid in full. I once again offered them a way out. It took a few weeks but they made a hard decision to allow me to place him. Needless to say, we had also grown attached to him and as he grew he attached himself to us.

He grew into a beautiful small compact boy with big huge eyes that would melt your heart. He was a very smart kiddo that learned to pee on the potty pad very quickly. I never let him outside and allowed his hair to grow. He loved it when I combed him and allowed me to part his hair and put the top knot up ;0)

Well, hurricane Ike happened and he was right by my side the entire time, he never left my side, he wanted to make sure his mommy was safe, lol...I had several inquires on him and changed his name to Max as I thought it to be more fitting. To make a longer story short, I found the pefect home for him. He was adopted by a young lady who is a eye doctor herself!! Of all things, he got the owner he was meant to have. As her other shih tzu also had an eye problem when he was little, so she was very understanding and being that she was an eye doctor, she knew what to look for in case anything else happened to him. I made sure to give her all his health records and phone numbers to my vet and the specialist with instructions to them to allow open records on Max. He is loved and lives in a huge house with loads of place to run and a shih tzu friend.

So, when you placed this complaint you did not know my methods of selecting a home for my babies. Now you do. Like I said before I can understand your misunderstanding but nothing was ever done on purpose. It was until your Rhetoric emails and then the name calling that I chose to cease communication with you.

From my prespective everything you have done after the name calling has not been to make peace but to demand an apology for something that I do not see as needed but for peace sakes I have offered sympathy but that was not enough for you.

If your prespective of my regurgitating the same over and over again is to you a way for me to make what you call fiction, fact then those are your opinions. Right or Wrong, we all have the right to our own thoughts and moral ethics. If you think a person lacks any of the above mentioned a wise person keeps to his or herself. Anything more is logically looked at as uncalled for. As far as the reaping and sowing, I am a firm believer in that. I certainly am not a firm believer in vengence or guile.

If this is a duplicate post - I apologize....

Let me break it down for you step by step (or hold your hand for you if that makes you feel better since I am SUCH a bully.. ;) )

You:

Hello, Greg. I am sorry to hear of your loss of your Stempy. I am amazed at your search for another small boy. As a breeder of 11 years I have had my share of small babies born around here. At the moment my tiny cowboy is staying on the smaller side, his mother has thrown at least one puppy in her litters. Being this is her last litter I am hanging on to them for a little longer than usual.

My response:

You are amazed at our search acknowledging how hard it has been for us. This indicates that you have made yourself aware of how important this search is for US. You clearly state RIGHT HERE that you will be hanging on to them for longer than usual. Any normal person would read that you are in no hurry to place the pup.

You, in the same email:

I have one person who emailed me some time back but she is hoping that he will have a growth spurt as she wants a bigger size shih tzu boy. Other than her I don't have anyone waiting for him. He will more than likely be available by 10-12 wks of age to make sure he is fit to leave, because of his size. His price will range from 1200.00 to 1500.00 depending on how long I keep him and how many sets of shots he has prior to leaving.

My response:

Wait a minute. Aren't you NOW saying that you had JUST placed him online as available? Hmmmm. That does not ring true. You clearly state right here one person who emailed me some time back - In case you do not quite understand (maybe your mexican-american heritage? I am not being critical my own wife is a coconut (her words not mine brown on the outside white on the inside) and I love her dearly. - my wife's mom does speak English as her second language) - but in ENGLISH this means that if someone inquired 'some time back' then he was NOT 'just made available.' Comprende?

He was what? FIVE weeks of age at this point. YOU CLEARLY STATE IN THIS SAME EMAIL THAT IT WILL BE FIVE TO SEVEN MORE WEEKS BEFORE HE WILL BE AVAILABLE. I DO note that you are charging MORE for tiny. According to the ASTC, size should have no bearing on the cost. UNLESS it is OUTSIDE the standard - in which case the pup should be sold as a pet for LESS - not MORE. But I forgot. What was your PURPOSE for breeding again? (m-o-n-e-y but SHHHH don't tell anyone! Right, Ruth? ;) )

You, in the same email again!:

But if you are still interested, let me know and I will be taking new pictures of the puppies the last part of this week.

My response:

Your words.....if you are still interested to let you know We WERE still interested and we DID let you know. Shall I spell that out for you too?

In your SECOND email to us:

Let me know what you think, I am not in a hurry in placing him as I won't even let him go unless he hits 2 pds and I and my vet think he is ready for his new home:)Thank you again for your inquiry,

My response:

We let you know what we thought. You again - ARE IN NO HURRY IN PLACING HIM! What message are you sending here, Ruth?

In a subsequent email from us:

He looks tiny and seems like he has that 'look' I have been searching so long for!

My response:

Further clarifying to you HOW LONG we had been looking for a pup like this little boy.

More comments I made in the same email:

I have to tell you that I am VERY excited about this little boy.

My response:

Further indicating just how much we liked this little boy.

I tell you clearly in our SECOND email to you:

.....prerequisite. Now, if for some reason the pup ended up being full size, I would not love him any less, but I want to give myself the best chance I can to find Stempy's twin..

My response: You want to STOP reading at prerequisite. WRONG. Read the VERY NEXT statement. We CLEARLY state that ULTIMATELY size WILL NOT MATTER. So your argument that you found someone that did not care about his adult size DOES NOT HOLD WATER as a reason for NOT placing him with us.

ALSO, we NEVER tell you this pup HAS TO BE Stempy. We did not expect him to be Stempy. We have long ago come to the conclusion that there will NEVER be another Stempy. We want a pup that RESEMBLES Stempy ( thus Stempy's twin? Come on....) so it will bring back fond memories while also creating new ones. What's WRONG with that? Nothing. What is WRONG with wanting a pup that is ALSO RELATED? Nothing.

Email from you:

Hello, sorry I had a delay. Here are the pictures of Lil Cowboy, I decided on a name for him :) He is such a doll and his tail wags 90 miles an hour, lol... Anyway, it was a little hard to take pics because my camera is acting up and so was the puppy. He is 5 1/2 wksnow and weighing in 16 ounces to 1 pd on a full tummy. His pictures don't do him justice.Thanks for your patience, Ruth Beasley

My response:

You THANK me for my patience. Have I made you think we were impatient? Gosh, I certainly hope not. We are such BIG BULLIES. ;) Right, Ruth?

My next email:

He is just simply adorable! From the pictures, it looks like he is built little. Short little legs and body. Tiny high set nose. Beautiful big eyes. Flat face. He is just awesome! I can just picture him wagging his little tail! And he weighs a whole pound! He is a little dude!.......We REALLY like this little boy!

My response:

Does this SOUND like someone who is UNINTERESTED?

Subsequent email from us:

This little pup looks like he is built small. I just love his big eyes. We are definitely interested in him. Keeping my fingers crossed on size.

My response:

This is quite clear is it not? Your excuses are shallow.

ONE WEEK PASSES....

and we email for an update on this little boy that we have our heart set on. We have clearly indicated our interest to you. IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU HAVE BEEN STIFFED TEN TIMES OR MORE FOR PEOPLE NOT SHOWING UP FOR AN APPOINTMENT or whatever!. You will INEVITABLY come across the rare human being who MEANS what he SAYS = meaning US. Don't you wish everyone meant what they say? COMMON COURTESY demands that you give the BENEFIT of the DOUBT at LEAST. Instead, because SO MANY OTHERS have lied to you in the past, you ASSUME that we are lying to you as well? And this is all somehow OUR FAULT?

Not everyone will be quite as gullible as Las Vegas No Name.

You then WAIT THREE AND A HALF DAYS and send us this?

I decided on a home for Cowboy about a week ago( someone who wanted him and did not care what size he ended up as an adult). I had been meaning to email you but have been extremly busy, thank you for your inquiries and I hope you find what you are looking for soon. Ruth Beasley

Our response:

Floored. Devastated. Heartbroken. After everything we have already been through and you throw this STICK OF DYNAMITE out there at us? WOW. You are SUCH a thoughtful person! (GAG!)

Words that come to mind to describe your actions:

Cruel. Heartless. Soulless. Despicable

May 7th You no hurry to place him.

May 18th You Oops! Placed him! (But I was in no hurry....) ;)


You REALLY REALLY cannot see how you MISLEAD US? Come on now, Ruth.

I send TWO emails ALL CORDIAL asking you to explain yourself and to PLEASE reconsider NEVER demanding that your distorted memory conjures up.

You IGNORE the second email. I call and leave two messages wanting to talk to you ALL VERY CORDIAL AND PROFESSIONAL NEVER harassing what a COP OUT on your part! Your actions are EXTREMELY disrespectful.

Then you send email notice that you had DELETED our last message WITHOUT reading.

So I sent you a third message in a WEEK time period. That's FAR from harassing you. Your embellishments are really sickening.

That email:

Could you please have the courtesy and decency to respond to our email?
We are not being rude or ugly with you and I would appreciate knowing what we have done to warrant this treatment.

You may still be the only hope we have of getting a tiny boy.....somewhere down the line......so I would like to clear up our lines of communication. Maybe you better understand what we are looking for now - there is no reason to delete our email without reading.

My response:

STILL I was cordial with you AFTER ALL OF THIS. I had EVERY RIGHT to have already gone off the deep end on you and I remained calm AND professional. I EVEN let you know that AFTER ALL YOU HAD ALREADY DONE WRONG I STILL had not disqualified you as the breeder for us. I was STILL showing you ENTIRELY too much respect.

You CONTINUE to IGNORE us for NO REASON. I had been NOTHING BUT NICE to you in ALL communications.

FOUR DAYS LATER, I send one more email that is firm in tone but still cordial:

Ruth,

I have expressed EXTREME patience with you. I would like to know what we have done for you to flat out ignore us. That is completely disrespectful & hurtful. You are fully aware of what we have been through since Stempy died - where is the compassion and concern for your fellow human being? I've really 'bitten my tongue' in terms of my comments on your treatment.

I've now gone back and reviewed all of our email correspondence. I'm sorry, but you should have had a very clear understanding of our interest. You treated us unfairly and with a lack of respect.

I certainly hope this not your regular method of operation. If it is, then you haveno business being abreeder and playing with people's heartstrings as you do. It is my sincere hope that you did not purposely err in your dealing of our situation. I would really appreciate a return phone call from you so we can clear the air over this situation. My patience is starting to wear a little thin....

My response:

You were NEVER harassed. EVER. I was still trying to offer you the opportunity to clear the air.

Your response?:

Panda Shih Tzu's has the right to refuse to sell to anyone if it is not in the best interest of the puppy. As indicated on my website.

My decision was my right. You have no right toMY propertyandNOTHING was ever promised to you.With all these harassing emails from you, I am GLAD I went with my first intuition. As far as my compassion for my fellow human being that is not for you to question nor judge as yousaid you are not a breeder, so thereforeyou are not in my shoes. ( at least not that I know of as of yet).

My not responding to earlier emails from youis also my right to keep the peace as I see fit. Understand Iwill never place a puppy with you,especially after all this. Please CEASE AND DESIST any further contact as of today's date 6-2-08 either by email, postal mail or phone. Ruth Beasley of PANDA SHIH TZUS

Our response?

This was COMPLETELY UNWARRANTED so....we called you what you are. Truth hurts, no? We were not really calling you names....per se.....more along the lines of accurate adjectives. You ARE what you ARE. And it's not very pretty.

You say you never were critical of our home. Again is it the language? You know....ENGLISH? You clearly state: has the right to refuse to sell to anyone if it is not in the best interest of the puppy IN ENGLISH you are stating that OUR HOME is not in the best interest of the puppy. IN ENGLISH that is pretty critical.

MY FINAL EMAIL TO YOU ENDS the events of THIS complaint. ALL this other stuff is IRRELEVANT.


REGARDING all this other stuff - you are trying to cloud the issues because YOU KNOW I am right but you just cannot bring yourself to admit it. Poor, poor Ruth. You need help.

Your attempts to sidestep the real issues and your attempts to try to discredit and destroy us speaks VOLUMES about your character or lack thereof. Lies do not become facts no matter how hard you try to deceive others and no matter how many times you repeat them, Ruth.

Do you think I am not capable of requesting the SAME report as you? I am VERY familiar with FOI issues. Your LIES are really crossing the line.

And LAWSUIT? WHAT LAWSUIT? Though it is NONE of your business, we did NOT sue the vet. The statute of limitations is long gone. So, please, come again with WHAT about money? Uh huh.

All you EVER had to do was say I screwed up. I'm sorry. I will make this up to you. You WERE wrong. We just painted you a nice pretty picture.

YOU chose this path, not I. You REAP what you SOW.

(By the way, we would like to know how this little boy turned out, but I'm sure you'll never tell us.)

END.

Let me break it down for you step by step (or hold your hand for you if that makes you feel better since I am SUCH a bully.. ;) )

You:

Hello, Greg. I am sorry to hear of your loss of your Stempy. I am amazed at your search for another small boy. As a breeder of 11 years I have had my share of small babies born around here. At the moment my tiny cowboy is staying on the smaller side, his mother has thrown at least one puppy in her litters. Being this is her last litter I am hanging on to them for a little longer than usual.

My response:

You are amazed at our search acknowledging how hard it has been for us. This indicates that you have made yourself aware of how important this search is for US. You clearly state RIGHT HERE that you will be hanging on to them for longer than usual. Any normal person would read that you are in no hurry to place the pup.

You, in the same email:

I have one person who emailed me some time back but she is hoping that he will have a growth spurt as she wants a bigger size shih tzu boy. Other than her I don't have anyone waiting for him. He will more than likely be available by 10-12 wks of age to make sure he is fit to leave, because of his size. His price will range from 1200.00 to 1500.00 depending on how long I keep him and how many sets of shots he has prior to leaving.

My response:

Wait a minute. Aren't you NOW saying that you had JUST placed him online as available? Hmmmm. That does not ring true. You clearly state right here one person who emailed me some time back - In case you do not quite understand (maybe your mexican-american heritage? I am not being critical my own wife is a coconut (her words not mine brown on the outside white on the inside) and I love her dearly. - my wife's mom does speak English as her second language -) - but in ENGLISH this means that if someone inquired 'some time back' then he was NOT 'just advertised as available.' Comprende?

He was what? FIVE weeks of age at this point. YOU CLEARLY STATE IN THIS SAME EMAIL THAT IT WILL BE FIVE TO SEVEN MORE WEEKS BEFORE HE WILL BE AVAILABLE. I DO note that you are charging MORE for tiny.

You, in the same email again!:

But if you are still interested, let me know and I will be taking new pictures of the puppies the last part of this week.

My response:

Your words.....if you are still interested to let you know We WERE still interested and we DID let you know. Shall I spell that out for you too?

In your SECOND email to us:

Let me know what you think, I am not in a hurry in placing him as I won't even let him go unless he hits 2 pds and I and my vet think he is ready for his new home:)Thank you again for your inquiry,

My response:

We let you know what we thought. YOU AGAIN ARE IN - NO HURRY - IN PLACING HIM! What message are you sending, Ruth?

In a subsequent email from us:

He looks tiny and seems like he has that 'look' I have been searching so long for!

My response:

Further clarifying to you HOW LONG we had been looking for a pup like this little boy.

More comments I made in the same email:

I have to tell you that I am VERY excited about this little boy.

My response:

Further indicating just how much we liked this little boy.

I tell you clearly in our SECOND email to you:

.....prerequisite. Now, if for some reason the pup ended up being full size, I would not love him any less, but I want to give myself the best chance I can to find Stempy's twin..

My response: You want to STOP reading at prerequisite. WRONG. Read the VERY NEXT statement. We CLEARLY state that ULTIMATELY size WILL NOT MATTER. So your argument that you found someone that did not care about his adult size DOES NOT HOLD WATER as a reason for NOT placing him with us.

ALSO, we NEVER tell you this pup HAS TO BE Stempy. We did not expect him to be Stempy. We have long ago come to the conclusion that there will NEVER be another Stempy. We want a pup that RESEMBLES Stempy ( thus Stempy's twin? Come on....) so it will bring back fond memories while also creating new ones. What's WRONG with that? Not a d**n thing. What is WRONG with wanting a pup that is ALSO RELATED? Not a d**n thing.

Email from you:

Hello, sorry I had a delay. Here are the pictures of Lil Cowboy, I decided on a name for him :) He is such a doll and his tail wags 90 miles an hour, lol... Anyway, it was a little hard to take pics because my camera is acting up and so was the puppy. He is 5 1/2 wksnow and weighing in 16 ounces to 1 pd on a full tummy. His pictures don't do him justice.Thanks for your patience, Ruth Beasley

My response:

You THANK me for my patience. Have I made you think we were impatient? Gosh, I certainly hope not.

My next email:

He is just simply adorable! From the pictures, it looks like he is built little. Short little legs and body. Tiny high set nose. Beautiful big eyes. Flat face. He is just awesome! I can just picture him wagging his little tail! And he weighs a whole pound! He is a little dude!.......We REALLY like this little boy!

My response:

Does this SOUND like someone who is UNINTERESTED?

Subsequent email from us:

This little pup looks like he is built small. I just love his big eyes. We are definitely interested in him. Keeping my fingers crossed on size.

My response:

This is quite clear is it not? Your excuses are shallow.

ONE WEEK PASSES....

and we email for an update on this little boy that we have our heart set on. We have clearly indicated our interest to you. IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU HAVE BEEN STIFFED TEN TIMES OR MORE FOR PEOPLE NOT SHOWING UP FOR AN APPOINTMENT or whatever!. You will INEVITABLY come across the rare human being who MEANS what he SAYS = meaning US. Don't you wish everyone meant what they say? COMMON COURTESY demands that you give the BENEFIT of the DOUBT at LEAST. Instead, because EVERYONE ELSE has lied to you in the past, you ASSUME that we are lying to you as well? And this is all somehow OUR FAULT?

Not everyone will be quite as gullible as Las Vegas No Name.

You then WAIT THREE AND A HALF DAYS and send us this?

I decided on a home for Cowboy about a week ago( someone who wanted him and did not care what size he ended up as an adult). I had been meaning to email you but have been extremly busy, thank you for your inquiries and I hope you find what you are looking for soon. Ruth Beasley

Our response:

Floored. Devastated. Heart Broken. After everything we have already been through and you throw this STICK OF DYNAMITE out there at us? WOW.

Words that come to mind to describe your actions:

Cruel. Heartless. Soulless. Despicable.

May 7th You no hurry to place him.

May 18th You Oops! Placed him! (But I was in no hurry....) ;)


You REALLY REALLY cannot see how you MISLEAD US? Are you THAT ethic-less for lack of a better word?

I send TWO emails ALL CORDIAL asking you to explain yourself and to PLEASE reconsider NEVER demanding that your distorted memory conjures up.

You IGNORE the second email. I call and leave two messages wanting to talk to you ALL VERY CORDIAL AND PROFESSIONAL NEVER harassing what a COP OUT on your part! Your actions are EXTREMELY disrespectful.

Then you send email notice that you had DELETED our last message WITHOUT reading.

So I sent you a third message in a WEEK time period. That's FAR from harassing you. Your embellishments are really sickening.

That email:

Could you please have the courtesy and decency to respond to our email?
We are not being rude or ugly with you and I would appreciate knowing what we have done to warrant this treatment.

You may still be the only hope we have of getting a tiny boy.....somewhere down the line......so I would like to clear up our lines of communication. Maybe you better understand what we are looking for now - there is no reason to delete our email without reading.

My response:

STILL I was cordial with you AFTER ALL OF THIS. I had EVERY RIGHT to have already gone off the deep end on you and I remained calm AND professional. I EVEN let you know that AFTER ALL YOU HAD ALREADY DONE WRONG I STILL had not disqualified you as the breeder for us. I was STILL showing you ENTIRELY too much respect.

You CONTINUE to IGNORE us for NO REASON. I had been NOTHING BUT NICE to you in ALL communications.

FOUR DAYS LATER, I send one more email that is firm in tone but still cordial:

Ruth,

I have expressed EXTREME patience with you. I would like to know what we have done for you to flat out ignore us. That is completely disrespectful & hurtful. You are fully aware of what we have been through since Stempy died - where is the compassion and concern for your fellow human being? I've really 'bitten my tongue' in terms of my comments on your treatment.

I've now gone back and reviewed all of our email correspondence. I'm sorry, but you should have had a very clear understanding of our interest. You treated us unfairly and with a lack of respect.

I certainly hope this not your regular method of operation. If it is, then you haveno business being abreeder and playing with people's heartstrings as you do. It is my sincere hope that you did not purposely err in your dealing of our situation. I would really appreciate a return phone call from you so we can clear the air over this situation. My patience is starting to wear a little thin....

My response:

You were NEVER harassed. EVER. I was still trying to offer you the opportunity to clear the air.

Your response?:

Panda Shih Tzu's has the right to refuse to sell to anyone if it is not in the best interest of the puppy. As indicated on my website.

My decision was my right. You have no right toMY propertyandNOTHING was ever promised to you.With all these harassing emails from you, I am GLAD I went with my first intuition. As far as my compassion for my fellow human being that is not for you to question nor judge as yousaid you are not a breeder, so thereforeyou are not in my shoes. ( at least not that I know of as of yet).

My not responding to earlier emails from youis also my right to keep the peace as I see fit. Understand Iwill never place a puppy with you,especially after all this. Please CEASE AND DESIST any further contact as of today's date 6-2-08 either by email, postal mail or phone. Ruth Beasley of PANDA SHIH TZUS

Our response?

We called you what you are. Truth hurts, no? We were not really calling you names....per se.....more along the lines of accurate adjectives. You ARE what you ARE. And it's not very pretty.

You say you never were critical of our home. Again is it the language? You know....ENGLISH? You clearly state: has the right to refuse to sell to anyone if it is not in the best interest of the puppy IN ENGLISH you are stating that OUR HOME is not in the best interest of the puppy. IN ENGLISH that is pretty critical.

MY FINAL EMAIL TO YOU ENDS the events of THIS complaint. ALL this other CRAP is IRRELEVANT.


REGARDING all this other B.S. - you are trying to cloud the issues because YOU KNOW I am right but you just cannot bring yourself to admit it. Poor, poor Ruth. You need help.

Do you think I am not capable of requesting the SAME report as you? I am VERY familiar with FOI issues. Your LIES are really crossing the line.

And LAWSUIT? WHAT LAWSUIT? Though it is NONE of your business, we did NOT sue the vet. The statute of limitations is long gone. So, please, come again with WHAT about money? Uh huh.

What is it with ALL OF YOUR LIES?

All you EVER had to do was say I screwed up. I'm sorry. Let me make it up to you.

YOU chose this path, not I. You REAP what you SOW.

END.

Quit trying to refocus the main issue here. And quit putting your foot in your mouth. We are NOT involved in a lawsuit. Never have been. Although that is none of your business. The statute of limitations has passed. You don't know me at all. You have TERRIBLY misjudged me. You can tell your daughter that I have NEVER been a violent individual and for you to come on here and suggest otherwise - boy, that really puts what you have done to us in a WHOLE NEW level of low. Does that make you feel good? Perverted and beyond belief.

It just gets worse with you, doesn't it? There is no hope for you.

I am a passionate person and I have strong opinions. You do not like being told you are wrong. You are not a reasonable person. These are my opinions.

The FACTS are laid out very clearly in the emails. I stand by them.

I am VERY FAMILIAR with the FOI act. Do you think I cannot check the same report as you? Your lies are really starting to cross the line.

I work hard every day trying to make things better for ALL animals through my advocacy work - including yours. For you to treat me this way is beyond comprehension.

I could care less who you talked to. You don't live with me. I do not have to defend myself one iota. Unlike you, I am a stand up individual. If I am wrong, I will say so.

You expect me to believe you had done all of this research BEFORE you blew me off? Stop it already.

You do not even know how FAR off base you are. You should seriously be ashamed.

As I stated earlier, I STAND BY my original complaint. You FAILED to treat us with respect. THAT is what this complaint is about.

You say you were never critical of us? Are you KIDDING me? You need to go back and reread again. END.

I had just submitted my rebuttal to yours when I saw you had added to your previous thoughts. As another thing that bothers me.

Sometimes people just need to keep their thoughts to themselves or they end up looking worst than when they first started.

Because you do not live in my home you do not know what happens around here. You can only speculate based on your own preceptions not facts.

Your last post again shows how you have no remorse on what you have done just because you misunderstood you think you had the right to bully.


This is a site for a business deal gone bad. Not personal emotions issues as it seems to have become. Like my son said: " Mom, I think this guy, just likes to listen to himself talk". ( attention seeker).

My daughter actually fears for my life, because she thinks you are not right in the head and if you had the nerve to call animal control and get so worked up about Stempy that you would be willing to do me physical harm. ( anger issues pretaining to personal past).

FYI my elder two shih tzu would never have been placed had I not been forced to do so. One had only produced one litter and was sterile for years. The other was spayed, for some time now. The people that got them, knew how much they meant to me and that I was no where near ready to let them go. Junior only not even a year old yet. I could have bred him as you say for money. When animal control came over I did as they instructed me to and then they came over again to make sure I had done it. So, for your theory about money, it has plenty of holes in it.

Have I ever placed my retired females, YES! My daughter and I recently retired one that we co-owned. I also placed Cowboy's mom when she had her last litter. But that was our choice, we were not forced. All breeders do that because we can't keep them all. These two shih tzu in question were not just retired females but my babies.

Again everything you do, you do on purpose, to harm and hurt and try to destroy someone. By saying that I don't show my dogs. Well, I have been there done that and may or may not get back into it. There are plenty of breeders who have shown in the past and no longer do it. Then there are others who never have and never will.

Does a breeder who shows make money, YES! You can ask anyone of them and they will tell you, that even if they make one penny off their dogs, it is consider profit. Nothing to live off but the fact is, it is a profit none other.

Honestly if you think you can live off of 1-3 litter a year and keep the maintance (food, vet bills, groomer fees, toys, beds, etc...) of your dogs up, you need a math class. Shih Tzu females are not bred until they are at least 2 years old and retired at 5 yrs, at least that is what I do. So, add the purchase amount of anywhere from 1500-3000 per full akc shih tzu that you buy and then their upkeep for two years and then retire them at 5. Needless to say if you have a female that has problems having babies and only gives you one litter or has a c-section. Also, if they grow up and they don't meet my standards for breeding I place them as pets for 800-900 dollars taking a loss.

PLEASE, tell that to someone who purchases two pet dogs and breeds them and maintains a puppy mill. Then you would have at least a leg to stand on. Oh, wait a minute you had an old internet ad for lhasa/shih tzu puppies that I found under your email address. Oops, you forgot about that. That didn't feel good did it.

I am not quite sure why you are so obsessed with show lines and pedigrees? Could it be that someone turned you down for a full akc shih tzu? Were you frown upon if you ever tried to get into the show ring? If this is true, maybe it was your additude.

Definition of Property as per the dictionary:

Property is any physical or virtual entity that is owned by an individual or jointly by a group of individuals. An owner of property has the right to consume, sell, rent, mortgage, transfer and exchange his or her property.

The definition speaks for itself.


You say it is all about the money. What is your lawsuit about? If not the fact but MONEY? You see it doesn't feel good when someone says stuff like that, does it?

Whatever your reasons they are yours. Live and let live. I haven't lost hope that you one day will grow from all your experiences in life and use them in a positive helpful way to those who are in need.

There are more important issues at hand right now, we are in a recession gearing towards a depression based on economist ( who studied for this). Life is short and we must make the best out of everything that comes our way.

You are more than welcome to have the LAST word ( which based upon your reactions instead of responses you will definately do) This however will be MY LAST POSTING.

Thank you, LAS Vegas whoever you are. Keep posting and never let anyone intimidate you from standing and trying to help others ;0) You were truly sent by God to help. Whoever you are may God bless you and keep you safe.

To you Greg, I wish you the best in life that God has to offer. There will always be someone that doesn't agree and has better or lives worse or has more. There will always be someone hurting out there mor than you or less than you. There will always be someone prettier or more handsome than you. There will always be some one more educated or less than you. There will be those that hurt you in this life. Those that help you in this life. You get what I mean. But they all cross your path for a difference. Leaving a mark in your life, that will make a difference for the better.

Me, I am to blessed to be stressed by the thousands of people that have come into my life. My true wealth is not what I own or allow to own me but the experiences that grow me into the person I was meant to be. God is Good! Always, Ruth Beasley

You are absolutely right we will never see eye to eye, that is why I stopped talking to you because we are just two different people and you needed to find a breeder who was like you. Oh, and you only called after the puppy had been placed!! So, don't sit here and lie. I never gave you my number you hunted it down and called me.

Anyway, you said shouldn't adults be able to talk things out or something like that. That is true if one person is not being childish and throwing a fit because they did not get what they wanted. Well, I don't consider name calling to be something a adult does but a child. There is never a time when a person has the right to call people names???

You said that you never called animal control. Well, YOU NEVER INDICATED THAT YOU DIDN'T!! I told you that I had gotten the information from my city. It is called the Freedom of Information Act. I am sure you are familiar with it because of the lawsuit you have against the vet. If needed any attorney can supeona the information from my city to use against you.

The only reason you say that you didn't call animal control now is because you didn't think anything had happened to me. But because I put it out there to let everyone read you now decide to back out on what your first complaint said: Below is what you put on your first complaint.

Breeders such as this do not deserve the dogs they have. Karma is a b-tch.

This breeder is also in violation of local laws which limit the number of adult dogs one can keep at one location. She lies to the city as well. What else does she lie about? I do not recommend this breeder. AVOID Panda's Shih Tzu.

How did you know that if I had lied or not to the city or how many dogs I had?? It was just your assumption also, eh?? Not. I never advertised my older shih tzu that belonged to my children. So, yah, I had a couple extra here at the house, while my family had things to do in their lives. One is in college and the other is a single mom with two kids and lives in a apt. Hope you feel good about yourself.

You always end up saying, Karma!! that is a joke, it was vengence on your part for what??? Please, tell me for What?? Because I answered you a few emails and you made a mountain out of a mole hill? You were the only one that harmed yourself by thinking you were going to get the puppy. It was your imagination that has caused you to hurt yourself and others.

You say your in compliance with your city because your first posting was addressed as you being from Dallas, Tx. If you lived in Dallas then yes, you would be in compliance because they allow you 6 dogs, also to be spayed and neutered. But you live in Mesquite, Tx. Now you say that your dogs don't all live with you?? Hmmm...could it be because you made the mistake to show on here and name all the dogs you have and now someone else can call animal control on you?? Like I said you don't have to worry, I would never, ever do that to someone. I am a strong believer that government shouldn't have a say so in how many dogs a person has unless they are not being cared for.

Mine had all the love and care they would have ever needed. For you to ASSUME they did not by what your first posting said is just that a ASSUMPTION. Just because you don't get what you want does not mean you have the right to ASSUME that I mistreat my dogs or anything like that. I never said that about you, did I??

Also your emails to me about that it was all about the money with me, if that were true I would have sold it to the first person who asked about him. This also shows that I love my fur kiddos more than making a buck. Plus, at any point in time I think a hobby is more of the money you put into it than what you will ever get back. My husband has a job and makes enough to where I don't have to work. So, no it's not about the money. So, if you think getting this hobby of showing shih tzu is cheap you have it all wrong.

Please, look at the postings of the emails you placed on here and you will clearly see there are a couple of emails missing.

Yes, you would have made a good puppy parent for one of my puppies but you just had to go crazy and do all this? It is a shame, that you just couldn't act like a adult and wait patiently for another puppy from me. By the time you even wanted to make things good you had already been a pain and I was just not going to go there with you.

Next time you email a breeder at least one who really cares about their babies. Don't tell them about your website for Stempy or that you are looking for a exact duplicate of him or that he has to be a certain size. Also, make sure that if the puppy is not available for deposit or is not ready for their new home to, ask them, to PLEASE, notify you when this pup is ready for deposit and that you WANT this puppy when it becomes available and are READY to do what is necessary to get this puppy, this will show a commitment to the breeder that you are serious and follow through with it.

P.S. don't ever ask for pedigree's, questions about size, etc... prior to even getting the chance to get this pup. When someone does this to me I look the other way because, the health of the puppy should be more important and the desire to have this puppy not because of a pedigree. Pedigree's don't make the puppy but a line of good quality sound healthy dogs make a pedigree. I hope you understand what I just said.

Don't assume that we breeders don't know one another because we do and know if you kept your part of the contract with other breeders of the dogs you have purchased and this will also be a part of the decision making process. If you didn't abide by their contract then you won't abide by ours.

Also make sure that you have deleted anything on the internet showing that you had an ad for puppies for sale! When I googled you, I found a very old ad for puppies for sale part lhasa and part shih tzu??

Just because I decided to not answer your emails or talk to you by phone after the puppy was placed was not because I did wrong or was scared of you or intimated by you but wanted to keep the peace and stay away from you. I am the type to keep the peace than to act a fool. But once you placed this on the internet I definately was going to defend my name and my character, hello!!

So, next time don't demand or manipulate or bully a person into getting what you want, because those us who are strong in spirit and mentally stable will stand up for ourselves. Having said that I again want to say, that I forgive you, even after placing my two dogs to get in compliance with my city. If God allowed it to happen, it happened for a reason. And whatever bad was meant by it, God will use it for my good and has used it for my good. I am stronger and better person because of it.

I truly pray that you will just let, Stempys death be a sad thing that happened to grow you and not be bitter because of it. No amount of money you get from the lawsuit will ever bring him back. My mother was a diabetic and spoke only spanish and was rushed to the hospital and because of a misunderstanding she is no longer here. My father did not sue anybody but instead viewed it as her time to go. I on the other hand was very upset and wanted more but he said " mija no amount of money can ever bring her back and the bible says each of us has a time to die". It doesn't say how or that it will be fair.

I know that had nothing to do with the shih tzu issue but I just felt I needed to share. You are not alone in your pain but it is always best to let it go. Sincerely, Ruth Beasley

Why was it the OLDER females that you LOVED so much that you placed? Gosh, you did not choose money over them did you? Could it be that they are no longer of breeding age to MAKE YOU MONEY? We CERTAINLY know that you are not trying to breed your next show dog - because YOU DO NOT SHOW. So it MUST be ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. And the way you refer to them as "your property" (We may OWN 5 dogs, but in no way are they treated as PROPERTY - like some disposable toaster)- the way you try to play God with other people's emotions - the way that you obviously believe that Vets are God-like with your criticism of Stempy's site (which is TRULY sad). You are really some piece of work - let me tell you. Your ethics leave much to be desired.

You seem to keep getting things out of order. YOU were not called names until you YOU sent me your final email. So your argument of not calling me back and ignoring me BECAUSE of that is INVALID. You were ignoring me before that point. UNTIL my final email to you, I had been cordial in all of our email exchanges. ALL email is posted ONLINE. I didn't leave anything out to my knowledge.

Whoever said I was the one who reported you to animal control? I sure never said it was me, and I am very sorry if you had to place doggies, but you are placing blame where it is convenient for you to place it and not where it belongs. Perhaps it was karma? I don't know. But you OBVIOUSLY are still not remorseful for how we were treated and you are trying to justify that by blaming us for an entirely unrelated separate event? Tsk. Tsk.

Also, you like to assume things. You assume that all 5 dogs we own live with us. As I stated earlier, we ARE in compliance with our city code. I am very sorry if you were not.

Believe me, I have no qualms with this dispute being public. My name was not posted originally because it was irrelevant at that point. I firmly believe that your actions were wrong. I would not do to someone else what you did to us.

It is obvious that we are getting nowhere. You do not understand our perspective - nor our yours - you will not change how we feel. EVER.

As I stated earlier you DID DESERVE being called the names you were called in the ONE email AFTER your final email to us. You keep conveniently wanting to change around the order of things to suit your needs, but the FACTS are the FACTS.

I STAND BY my original complaint.

You seem to keep getting things out of order. YOU were not called names until you YOU sent me your final email. So your argument of not calling me back and ignoring me BECAUSE of that is INVALID. You were ignoring me before that point. UNTIL my final email to you, I had been cordial in all of our email exchanges. ALL email is posted ONLINE. I didn't leave anything out to my knowledge.

Whoever said I was the one who reported you to animal control? I sure never said it was me, and I am very sorry if you had to place doggies, but you are placing blame where it is convenient for you to place it and not where it belongs. Perhaps it was karma? I don't know. But you OBVIOUSLY are still not remorseful for how we were treated and you are trying to justify that by blaming us for an entirely unrelated separate event? Tsk. Tsk.

Also, you like to assume things. You assume that all 5 dogs we own live with us. As I stated earlier, we ARE in compliance with our city code. I am very sorry if you were not.

Believe me, I have no qualms with this dispute being public. My name was not posted originally because it was irrelevant at that point. I firmly believe that your actions were wrong. I would not do to someone else what you did to us.

It is obvious that we are getting nowhere. You do not understand our perspective - nor our yours - you will not change how we feel. EVER.

As I stated earlier you DID DESERVE being called the names you were called in the ONE email AFTER your final email to us. You keep conveniently wanting to change around the order of things to suit your needs, but the FACTS are the FACTS.

I STAND BY my original complaint.

You seem to keep getting things out of order. YOU were not called names until you YOU sent me your final email. So your argument of not calling me back and ignoring me BECAUSE of that is INVALID. You were ignoring me before that point. UNTIL my final email to you, I had been cordial in all of our email exchanges. ALL email is posted ONLINE. I didn't leave anything out to my knowledge.

Whoever said I was the one who reported you to animal control? I sure never said it was me, and I am very sorry if you had to place doggies, but you are placing blame where it is convenient for you to place it and not where it belongs. Perhaps it was karma? I don't know. But you OBVIOUSLY are still not remorseful for how we were treated and you are trying to justify that by blaming us for an entirely unrelated separate event? Tsk. Tsk.

Also, you like to assume things. You assume that all 5 dogs we own live with us. As I stated earlier, we ARE in compliance with our city code. I am very sorry if you were not.

Believe me, I have no qualms with this dispute being public. My name was not posted originally because it was irrelevant at that point. I firmly believe that your actions were wrong. I would not do to someone else what you did to us.

It is obvious that we are getting nowhere. You do not understand our perspective - nor our yours - you will not change how we feel. EVER.

As I stated earlier you DID DESERVE being called the names you were called in the ONE email AFTER your final email to us. You keep conveniently wanting to change around the order of things to suit your needs, but the FACTS are the FACTS.

I STAND BY my original complaint.

You seem to keep getting things out of order. YOU were not called names until you YOU sent me your final email. So your argument of not calling me back and ignoring me BECAUSE of that is INVALID. You were ignoring me before that point. UNTIL my final email to you, I had been cordial in all of our email exchanges. ALL email is posted ONLINE. I didn't leave anything out to my knowledge.

Whoever said I was the one who reported you to animal control? I sure never said it was me, and I am very sorry if you had to place doggies, but you are placing blame where it is convenient for you to place it and not where it belongs. Perhaps it was karma? I don't know. But you OBVIOUSLY are still not remorseful for how we were treated and you are trying to justify that by blaming us for an entirely unrelated separate event? Tsk. Tsk.

Also, you like to assume things. You assume that all 5 dogs we own live with us. As I stated earlier, we ARE in compliance with our city code. I am very sorry if you were not.

Believe me, I have no qualms with this dispute being public. My name was not posted originally because it was irrelevant at that point. I firmly believe that your actions were wrong. I would not do to someone else what you did to us.

It is obvious that we are getting nowhere. You do not understand our perspective - nor our yours - you will not change how we feel. EVER.

As I stated earlier you DID DESERVE being called the names you were called in the ONE email AFTER your final email to us. You keep conveniently wanting to change around the order of things to suit your needs, but the FACTS are the FACTS.

I STAND BY my original complaint.

Greg.....:0(

I am truly sadden at the fact that you disregarded my asking you to not email me any longer. I have cared enough to come online and defend myself against your allegations of my supposed wrong doing.

Below is the email you sent me today.

Sent by: Greg and Cindy Munson 02/04/09 8:08 p.m.
To: Ruth Beasley

I responded to your last post, but it takes a couple of hours to post.

No, Ruth, our goal is not to harm you by posting the Rip Off Report. The goal was hopefully for you understand that what you did to us was not right. If you would have responded to my concerns in email to begin with as you have done online now, things would have never had to get to this point.

I honestly feel like we were mislead in our dealings with you. You are basically telling me that we did not show ENOUGH interest for you to know that we wanted him. Can you not see where you said you were in no hurry to place him? You actually told us we were the only ones interested in him when you said the ONE other person was looking for a bigger male.

And this is not like at a store because there are not multiples of the same pup. There is only one of each pup. Correct?


Do you see anything wrong or different in rebuttal you placed on here vs the email you have sent me? You said that if I had only responded to you by email it would never have had to get to this point. THE POINT OF WHAT? Harming me and hurting me? Yes, I understand and am fully aware of your misunderstanding but I did nothing on purpose as you have.

You called ANIMAL CONTROL on me!! I did have two other elderly female shih tzu that had grown up with me and I wanted them to stay with me until they died but I had to place them. My children grew up with these dogs!!!! I placed Junior my only offspring left out of my stud Fabio. Even if he had never grown up to meet the standard I wanted to keep him but I had to place him because of you!!! You must not have children or grandkids or a heart because you have caused more pain to our family than you will ever know.

This I do not consider Karma but Vengence on your part! When were you left to be my father figure to teach me a lesson?? Or judge to say that what you thought was wrong or right? Maybe you could have thought that in your head but when you took the actions to cause harm, you took it into your own hands to punish me for something you thought to be true.

You make act as if you do no wrong. When you placed the first complaint on this site: Why did you not put your full name? I could think of all kinds of reasons why but that was your choice.

You then tell me that you are not breaking any laws in your city of Mesquite Tx. as to how many dogs you have and for me to do my research. I did go to www.municode.com click on city ordinance and the city of Mesquite Tx. The law says you are allowed 3 dogs and 3 cats and they must be spayed or neutered. You my friend are not in compliance but I still will not call on you because my dogs are like my kids and I would never do such harm to another human being!

And I owe you an apology??

Then you place some emails on here to show your point of view but leave out some??

Yes, I did tell you from the get go as to one other person who inquired about the puppy. Goodness sakes it was the first day I had placed the ad! I then continued to answer emails but did not consider that I had to alert everyone of all the others?? You are not a breeder therefore you don't understand.

I have had people inquire and some even make appts to visit and never show up! So, having said that you made a very be mistake, just as you think I did you.

Now how are you ever going to make up for my poor babies that I had to place because of you?? There is no amount of money in this world that can ever take that pain away. Just as you feel the vet did with your Stempy. But I am the one who is wrong??

When you say: If you would have responded to my concerns in email to begin with as you have done online now, things would have never had to get to this point. To me that is like telling a abused wife that if she hadn't made you mad you would have had to beat her up!! Do you not see how manipulating and mean you have been?

When you said in your email today: And this is not like at a store because there are not multiples of the same pup. There is only one of each pup. Correct?

That was not the point I was trying to make ;0( I am sure others who read this will see what I mean.

The whole point to this site is to repair and make things work out in a business situation. There was no sale or monies exchanged for anything, therefore this was in my personal view just to harm and a form of harrassment and slander.

One other thing from the get go I was not to comfortable with you as a puppy parent for my babies because of the websites you had up for Stempy and how you were after the vet and how you talked about vets. You showed so much hate and bitterness. I thought to myself, this person is trouble and I was right. But I still gave you the benefit of the doubt and answered your emails thinking that maybe you were different than what I had thought. My expectations were just that my expectations as were yours towards me.

I hope you become a breeder so you can experience and finally understand.

You do know that many breeders view this website? They may not want to place a puppy with you because they will also be afraid to end up arguing with you.

Also, if you have a lawsuit pending attorneys are allowed to use anything to discredit character and by placing this you might have messed it up for yourself.

Also, I chose not to talk to you by phone or recieve any more emails about the puppy because I had placed him. Plus you were very upset with me and called me names, etc... why would I want to continue to take verbal abuse?? Anyone else would have filed a restraint order against you by now.

I end this note to agree to disagree.

Ruth, the goal is not to harm you. The goal was for you to understand that what you did to us was not right. The common courtesy I was referring to was letting us know someone else was also interested. Did you not tell us from the get go who was interested in this pup? So why would we expect anything less than you keeping us updated if someone else inquired? We do not know how many people contact you about your puppies. We did not know anyone else was even interested. We truly thought we were the only ones discussing him with you because you told us no different. You had said you were in no hurry to place him, so we did not want to pressure you anyway. We figured you would let us know when you were ready for a deposit or wanted to talk to us on the phone. Can you not see how we feel somewhat mislead?

The reason I wanted to talk to you on the phone was because sometimes it can be hard to know how someone means something in an email. You do not have the luxury of facial expression and voice inflection in an email. But you would not even return my phone call. And then you sent us your last email. How do you think that made us feel? You would not even address what had happened which showed a total disregard for us and our feelings. Shouldn't adults be able to talk things out?

You have taken the time to respond here. Couldn't you have done that in the first place?

Hello, Greg.

You are absolutely correct, I can't seem to understand as of yet, why you thought the puppy was held for you and that I mistreated you or hurt you by choice?

Maybe I will never understand and yes that is a sad situation for the both of us.

I am not one to boast about how perfect I am because I am the opposite, I would be the first to say I am human and make mistakes. Don't we all??

This site was made for people who have been ripped off. As of yet, I can't seem to understand, how I did that to you??

How ever I am grateful that you posted some of the emails that you sent me but you left a few out.

I thought of doing that myself but just didn't want to take the time. I have grandkids I take care of and I am a diabetic, etc.... These types of things are the least of my worries but I did care enough to come and do a few rebuttals to try and solve this mystery.

Let me say this however: As a person who has been doing this for a long time, I get emails all and I mean all the time about puppies. I have people who inquire about the same puppy and I answer their questions as I did you.

I was simply trying to answer your questions but never got any further with you about the puppy and that is the reason I did not think you thought, the puppy was being held for you.

My usual second step is to ask you questions about your life, the reasons you would think this puppy is for your home, previous animals, vet references, personal references and give you my number and my vets number, etc... but we didn't even get to that point??

Third step is to set up a appt. to visit and then decide if the pup is right for you and your family.

So, as you can see I was only answering your emails at that point. As I told you before I chose to stop communicating with you because of your tone in the emails and your demands and choice of wording towards me. But do you blame me? I think you would have done the same, if you had someone crossing their boundaries with you.

One thing I am grateful for about this experience is that it has taught me to make sure to change my website to indicate that a puppy is not considered on hold until a deposit has been made, that way there is no misunderstanding.


I am thinking of also making a page that will indicate the steps it takes for me to place my puppies that will come in handy for those who choose to read it ;0)

But I am sure there will be more experiences in my life that I will learn from and then some;0)

Just thought I would throw it in there. My spelling of Panda Shih Tzu's is a personal inside joke and my husband was the one who thought of it ;0) not a mere misspelling as you think. Also, pandashihtzu in our email form was already taken as was the domain name ( which we still have yet to aquire and may not even do it)

You see sometimes things aren't as they appear to be if you are not that person. Because not all of us think the same nor are the same person. Personally, I think you are just looking for things to argue about and try to hurt me or maybe not? That is okay, because I was told by a very wise man, hurting people will hurt other people. Also, the problem is never the problem. So, I choose not to take them to heart.

I have had all walks of life come into my home and my life by way of my hobby the Shih Tzu. All colors, sexual preferences, rich, poor, single, married, divorced, all religions, young, old, educated, non educated, all professions, including high government officials and celebrities.

But one thing they all had in common with me is the unconditional love for the Shih Tzu and mutual respect and trust for one another despite our apparent differences. If anyone had a disagreement we worked it out and came to a agreement or simply agreed to disagree but still kept in contact through out the years in regards to the puppies I have placed with them. But there has never been a dissatisfied puppy parent.

Greg you are the first NON customer who I have run across that is so upset about my answering your emails??

I guess I look at it this way. Example: I see an ad in the newspaper for a blender. The sale is going to start on Sunday and it is Thursday. I call the store and see if they have the blender that will be on sale on Sunday and they answer me yes and I ask a couple of other questions about it and they answer me.

Sunday comes around and I call the store, I ask if they still have the blenders they have on sale they say yes. I go to the store and just as I am about to ask again about the blender the cashier is already ringing up a customer with the last one in stock. Should I get upset? No, this type of thing happens all the time.

The store sales people didn't have to tell you about a few hundred calls they have gotten for the same blender or hold the blender for you without purchase. For them it was just another call. Had a promise been made to you to hold it until you got there ( most stores wont) to purchase it then you might have a case but to just get upset cause you didn't get it, is simply not quite right.

Is this type of thing frustrating, yes, I couldn't agree with you more on that but that is all it should have been, as life goes on.

I hope this helps you to understand my point of view. You may not agree with it and that is fine you have that right. One true thing, I have learned: if you are going to go into the business of showing shih tzu and placing pets, please understand this, you will never please everybody.

Oh, I almost forgot: the forgiveness part was not just for you but it helps me to live life without bitterness. If I forgive your actions towards me, I can live stress free. I don't mean to sound like God. He is the only one that can forgive your sins. Also, if you are not a believer, please take no offense as I am only speaking concerning my beliefs. Hoping this helps and wishing you the best in your life.

P.S. please, excuse any misspellings ;)

She was NOT accepting deposits. Do you not read or do you just not comprehend? Okay, even so, it is still her right to choose which people she believes are the best fit to each particular puppy. There is still nowhere in which she says she believes you are that fit for this puppy. There is still nowhere where she says she is DEFINITELY placing the puppy with you, that I can find, if there is point it out, there's a lot to go through in those emails. When the page said she was not accepting deposits, was it because she likes to wait until a certain age before accepting deposits (this would not be unusual)? Where did you ask and receive an answer as to when deposits WOULD be accepted on the puppies? Didn't one of those emails say you were waiting until the puppy was 8 weeks? Her site now says that puppies are not considered on hold, until she has talked to you and both parties have agreed to send and accept a deposit (common sense, to me). Is this a lesson learned from this situation? Am I wrong in believing that there were no conversations by phone? I don't see any mention of any phone conversations, can you point it out? Las Vegas No Name? I have a name, it is not anonymous (or no name), and has a meaning behind it, and fits my purposes quite well I think. I think it's the smart thing to do actually, you never know what nut you might somehow make angry. If I ever have occasion to post an actual complaint, it will most likely be under my actual contact information. BTW, I am sorry for the typo concerning your name Mr. Munson. Are we supposed to play my I.Q. is bigger than yours now?

I said we were DEFINITELY interested. Cannot get much clearer than that. - Well, you defined definitely for us. Let's do INTERESTED in the most likely context. Having or showing curiosity, fascination, or concern As in, he was interested in who was on the phone. He is interested in sports. So, that statement could be interpreted as: You were CLEARLY CURIOUS. Let's do some others. VINDICTIVE - Disposed to seek revenge; revengeful. Marked by or resulting from a desire to hurt; spiteful. Showing malicious ill will and a desire to hurt; motivated by spite. SPITE - Malicious ill will prompting an urge to hurt or humiliate an instance of malicious feeling. Deliberate nastiness.

I could care less what you think and I have no desire to try and 'convince' you of anything. - Fair enough. I didn't really expect you to. Nor am I offended by it. Doesn't mean I feel like butting out quite yet though.

You are not going to convince me that I was in the wrong because I was not. Yes, it is obvious you will not likely see things any other way. maybe I am not concerned with just you? I am still waiting for you to convince me (and anyone else with a similar point of view about this situation) you weren't wrong. Yes, I know, I don't matter to you, you have no desire to convince me, all that.

Common courtesy. Ever hear of it? Yes, sure have. Is setting out to destroy someone for not getting what you wanted, or not having things turn out in your favor, included in your idea of common courtesy?

I will not even glorify your comments in regards to Stempy with a response. His website is out there. It speaks for itself. My comments mostly had to do with your statements and assumptions (wrong, I might add) directed towards me, and about me. When you made them, you were completely unaware of my beliefs.

Your OPINION is wrong. GET OVER yourself. LOL. I guess I could say the same thing to you. I wouldn't though. Does this sort of statement imply any sort of common courtesy to you?

YOU are NOT a party to this dispute. COMMENTS are for people with something constructive to offer. YOU have NOTHING constructive to offer. Again, LOL. I do not have to be a party to this dispute to comment and offer my opinions. I haven't seen anything yet to change my opinions. Do you think that only those who agree with your point of view are allowed to comment? I am sorry that you think trying to find out what actually happened, clarify the situation, and saying when I don't see a rip off, or offering a possible different point of view is constructive. How about this, there was definitely no meeting of the minds here, therefore no contract, and therefore no actual rip-off. She did not take anything from you. She does not appear to have agreed to anything. She does not appear to have been interviewing you. She was answering your requests for more information I believe, simply put. I am sorry you apparently misunderstood the situation, and got hurt so badly, but it doesn't appear intentional to me on her part, unlike some of your actions and statements.

I've had others review the dispute before I ever posted it here and validate my point of view. Okay. What's the big deal if I disagree? If everybody agreed on everything, we'd never learn anything.
Your repeated mention of Stempy, and why your prerequisites' exist, is going to put off most breeder's whom actually care about their dogs and where they end up. It is not a question of whether or not you will provide a good home I think, just a fear of unrealistic expectations, and the fact that there was, and only ever will be, ONE Stempy. Good breeder's want you to love THEIR puppy as much as you loved Stempy, for their own individual quality's and not just those that remind you of the one before. And they have the right to decide to place the puppy with someone else, until and unless they accept a deposit from you. *just my opinions*

She was NOT accepting deposits. Do you not read or do you just not comprehend?

I said we were DEFINITELY interested. Cannot get much clearer than that.

I could care less what you think and I have no desire to try and "convince" you of anything.

You are not going to convince me that I was in the wrong because I was not.

Common courtesy. Ever hear of it?

I will not even glorify your comments in regards to Stempy with a response. His website is out there. It speaks for itself.

Your OPINION is wrong. GET OVER yourself.

YOU are NOT a party to this dispute. COMMENTS are for people with something constructive to offer. YOU have NOTHING constructive to offer.

I've had others review the dispute before I ever posted it here and validate my point of view.

Butt out? You chose to open your OPINIONS up to the public and make them available for public comment. So, NO, I will not butt out. Wonder if you would have told me to butt out if I had agreed with you? I simply stated a few observations and asked some questions. It is YOUR statements directed towards me which have no relevance, as you know NOTHING about me. If you did, you would know that I consistantly state that our vets are not gods (and maybe your experience is mostly limited to techs new to the whole animal world, but if not, it would certainly be unprofessional to trash your boss to their customer's, or even publicly disagree without first making your point of view known in private, don't you think?), but humans and that we need to educate OURSELVES on the issues common to our breeds and the medical issues our pets are going through so as to better provide them with the best care, and to ensure that we are not being unrealistic in our expectations. That it is simply NOT POSSIBLE for them to know everything, and that WE may be just as responsible for the results if things take a wrong turn somewhere. I REGULARLY advise getting several different opinions from several different vets, in order to ensure we are doing the best thing for our pets, because I DO know not to blindly trust their OPINION. And that I have yet to meet a GOOD veterinarian whom minded or took offense to this. I try to avoid outright saying I think someone's vet sucks, because they DO deserve our respect, but may not be particularly experienced with a particular breed or issue. That's why some are specialists in some particular area. They have more experience with that particular area, and having that extra experience means they may come to different conclusions, and have a different way of doing something than a veterinarian whom is NOT a specialist in that area. Veterinary medicine is as much a matter of opinion and experience as it is science.

Here is a good example: #318966, why - because I believe that more often than not cold's develope into pnemonia by a vet prescribing medications that are not as effective as we wish they were. Note this particular statement, it does apply: They deserve our respect because they have earned their titles, but they are still only human, and can be just as worried about being sued as our human practioners. This fear can sometimes get in the way of whether our pets live or die.- I ALSO, do not currently work for a vet, though I DO have personal relationships with some, and have NEVER considered any vet a god. In fact, I regularly rant to my friend's about particular vet's whom I classify as having a 'God Complex', which I believe seriously interferes with what I believe should be their goals (as can the fear of being accused of doing the wrong thing).

So, did all your research come before and during Stempy's problem, or only after the fact, when you decided someone must have done something wrong. Did you do all this research and consulting during, so you could participate and ensure that you agreed with what was going on? Did you consult with the vet you blame for Stempy's death DURING his treatment while it was all going on? If not, you can thank Stempy for the learning of a very valuable lesson, which was unfortunately learned too late. I am not attacking you, it is not my intention, but maybe a little irritated by what I percieve as a personal attack on me. Don't get me wrong, I think the whole situation is tragic, and my heart goes out to you, but think it should send a slightly different message than the one you impart. Did the Texas State Board of Veterinary Medical Examiner's agree with you? Did they think Stempy's death was caused by outright negligence with all the facts and both sides to review? Did you ever get that appeal? I believe they may be a little more qualified in deciding actual improper or negligent care by a veterinarian, than the average pet owner.

As the issue is common in shih-tzu's, if it occurs next time you will be more knowledgable in what you believe should be done, and will be able to better evaluate what vet is right for you if they dismiss your knowledge, yes? And it appears I am certainly more objective than you appear to be. I have no personal stake in this. Not in any way shape or form, I simply attempt to provide a different point of view.
As far as the issue with the breeder, thank you for posting the emails, but I am not sure what point you were trying to make? She appears to have been very patient with you, and very knowledgable. Took the time to discuss things with you, was very up front, and seemed to actually be trying to help you on your search. What it does not appear she did to me, was promise you that puppy, or even imply she considered him placed with you in any way. Nor did you ever say you wanted it, absolutely, positively, and were sending her a deposit. She simply answered your questions. She did let you know someone else was interested right from the get go. In the beginning, she advised you that she would most likely not be allowing this puppy out of her care until a little later than is common, and why. You never told her you wanted this puppy until he belonged to someone else, and then you ask her to reconsider? What the heck? What if you HAD put down a deposit, meaning the puppy was reserved for you, and no longer available to others, and she 'reconsidered' in the favor of someone else. Not only would she most likely have been wrong in your eyes, but in the eyes of most rational people in that scenario as well. Unless she had a very good reason, had proof of that reason, AND refunded your deposit. Are you the sort of person who doesn't go by a general sense of wrong or right, but only how it applies to yourself? Can you point out where you believe she went wrong in her dealing with you? I don't see it.

So, I still stand by 1-4, with the question of what happened to Stempy being answered to some degree (because one side of the story, and one view point has been learned). I am not seeing any rip off here, and trying to understand why you see it the way you do. I offered some OBJECTIVE opinions, from someone who is on the outside of the issue, and asked a few questions in the interest of clarifying the situation. Does that deserve an attack? I know I wouldn't respond that way.......... And if you find another puppy and you are certain everything is right, now you know to put down that deposit as soon as you are sure everything about the breeder and the puppy are right for you. So far, Greg Muson, I believe it is you who is wrong when it comes to your actions and views pertaining to this breeder. Can you change my mind without hurling uneccesary abuse, and showing a very negative side of yourself? Do you really believe in Karma? IMO, from what I can see so far, you DO owe her an apology, a heartfelt and sincere one.*Just My Opinions*

I stated that we were definitely interested.

Words meaning the same as definitely:

definitely

clearly, unmistakably, unquestionably, positively; see surely.

Cannot get much clearer than that.

Extremely

---------
In an extreme manner or state; in the utmost degree; to the utmost point; exceedingly; as, extremely hot or cold.


I had stated we were EXTREMELY interested - NO ONE could have been MORE interested than us. YOU were not accepting deposits. WE had mentioned early on that we would love the pup NO MATTER THE SIZE he ended up. YOU had stated you were in NO HURRY to place the pup. That was OBVIOUSLY not true. WE were trying to show patience. YOU sold this pup out from under us for no good reason at all. YOU told us that the ONLY other person that had contacted you wanted a BIGGER pup and that THIS PUP was going to be small - which you knew that is what we were/are looking for. You owed us the courtesy of saying hey, I have someone else interested. We had made our interest known. You could have sent us an email in less than a minute. We could have put down a deposit at any time.

Then - you want it both ways - you say clents that "really" want a pup email and call you ALL the time - but then my emails were just so numerous as to be harassing? May 26th, May 31st, June 3rd. Three emails in a little over a week. You even sent notification to me that you deleted one of the three. Man, that's tough. I left you a couple of messages. YOU never returned my call. YOU disrespected us.

You had just stated to us that you would NEVER sell us a pup and yes THEN I called you a name or two in the LAST email. You deserved it.

Las Vegas vet tech: YOU don't know the situation and have NO CLUE as to why our late beloved little boy passed away. His website is out there. Do a search. In the meantime, your comments are irrelevant. And I've met VERY FEW objective vet techs. Most worship the vets they work for as if they were some God.

Ruth Beasley of Panda's Shih Tzu ( by the way, it is Shih Tzu whether singular OR plural - if you are going to breed the breed, at LEAST learn how to SPELL the breed ) you have everything severely twisted and out of order. YOU have forgiven US? PLEASE! You truly need to get a clue. HERE is your refresher:


____________________________________________
From: Greg & Cindy Munson
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:04 PM
To: pandashihtzus
Subject: tiny male

Hello,

I noticed on your puppy page that you have a tiny male pup. I have been searching since 2005 for a tiny male from a quality show breeder. I know I could find tiny from "imperial" breeders, but there is a reason I want to find a tiny boy from a respectable show breeder.

I may have contacted you previously as I have contacted many folks in my search. Our beloved Shih Tzu boy, Stempy, passed away September 30, 2005 at the age of 8 due to the negligence of his veterinarian. Stempy was champion sired from a show breeder (who unfortunately passed away several years ago). He had 41 champions in his 5 generation pedigree (see below). He was gold and white w/ black tips. He had a tiny HIGH set nose and a VERY flat face. As an adult, Stempy weighed in at about 5 or 6 lbs. I am searching for his twin. See Stempy and learn all about him and us at his website:



Is your little tiny male pup going to be available? What size do you think he will be as an adult? Any info greatly appreciated!

Thank you,

Greg Munson
Mesquite, Texas

______________________________________________________________
From: Ruth Beasley
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 4:56 PM
To: Greg & Cindy Munson
Subject: RE: tiny male

Hello, Greg. I am sorry to hear of your loss of your Stempy. I am amazed at your search for another small boy. As a breeder of 11 years I have had my share of small babies born around here. At the moment my tiny cowboy is staying on the smaller side, his mother has thrown at least one puppy in her litters. Being this is her last litter I am hanging on to them for a little longer than usual.

As far as how big or how little he will be is just an estimate based on previous litters. The smaller ones have ranged from 2 1/2 pds to 5 pds full grown. By these two parents. The biggest they have had is 8-9 pds to 10-12 pds full grown from the same parents. However having said that let me say that all dogs throw 7 generations back. I can send you his dad and mothers pedigree.

I have one person who emailed me some time back but she is hoping that he will have a growth spurt as she wants a bigger size shih tzu boy. Other than her I don't have anyone waiting for him. He will more than likely be available by 10-12 wks of age to make sure he is fit to leave, because of his size. His price will range from 1200.00 to 1500.00 depending on how long I keep him and how many sets of shots he has prior to leaving.

My best advice to you would be to find a puppy who is already 6-9 months of age to make sure you get the size you want. But if you are still interested, let me know and I will be taking new pictures of the puppies the last part of this week. Thank you for your inquiry, Ruth

http://pages.prodigy.net/pandashihtzus
______________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg & Cindy Munson
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 4:13 PM
To: Ruth Beasley
Subject: Re: tiny male

Ruth,

Thank you very much for your reply.I would love to see the dad and mom's pedigrees. As I am not a breeder, can you explain what you mean when you say they throw 7 generations back?

If, from your experience, you think this boy will be no bigger than 6 pounds, I would be very interested. I would LOVE to see more pictures of him. Which pup is he in the picture on your website?

Stempy was 12 weeks old whenever he came home with us.

I just don't know where I could find a 6 to 9 month old tiny male. Many show breeders will not even discuss the smaller ones with me. They think I should get a standard size. Of course, that is no help to me at all. As you can imagine, I am seeking tiny for a reason and it is a prerequisite. Now, if for some reason the pup ended up being full size, I would not love him any less, but I want to give myself the best chance I can to find Stempy's twin..

Below are a few pictures of Stempy.

Thank you!
Greg Munson
_______________________________________________________
From: Ruth Beasley
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:03 PM
To: Greg & Cindy Munson
Subject: RE: tiny male

Hello, Greg. The definition to dogs throwing 7 generations back, simply means there may be bigger or smaller size dogs in the parents lineage. Yes, the old saying is " the apples does not fall to far from the tree" but I have seen, small babies come through from a standard size pedigree " mostly show dogs". Not bred down on purpose as those who do this may in fact be harming the shih tzu breeding program instead of helping to improve.

Yes, show breeders tend not to want small in their breeding programs nor do they want to advocate such. I myself do not show but had my champion shown for me and all my dogs are either ch.sired or their grandfather was a champion. So, basically I am not your typical show breeder nor your typical regular breeder :) Therefore I can stand in the gap and say that I prefer the smaller standard in my breeding program and that yes, we do get small in our lines but I also would not advocate breeding for this size.

My experience has also been that a litter of puppies can all be the exact same size at birth and then keeping growing and around the 9-12th week just slow down almost to a complete stop in growing. Usually, they have, what I call a pixie face. Right now I have a lil boy I kept back from my previous stud, who weighed 11 pds and Junior is his son andhe is 8 months and 4-5 pds, I don't expect him to be any bigger but gain a little muscle weight :) NO, I won't sell him, he is my Junior and a beloved baby from our oldest stud we just retired and placed in a Austin home.
I am attaching a couple of pictures I took of the male puppy,last week. I will try to get my act together and take more pictures, at least by Friday. I am also attaching the pedigrees. As far as size, only time will tell but so far he looks to be staying on the smaller side:) I know this does not help much in making sure size is covered but I can only estimate. That is why I think it is best to find a 6-9 month old but I understand that can be hard to do. Let me know what you think, I am not in a hurry in placing him as I won't even let him go unless he hits 2 pds and I and my vet think he is ready for his new home:)Thank you again for your inquiry,

Ruth Beasley

http://pages.prodigy.net/pandashihtzus

Ch. Lun Lynns Please Fall O Me is the mom Barbies, DAD.
Ch. Lun Lynns Never Look Back is my champion the daddy to the puppy ( aka Clyde)

He is the one on the far left on the picture on my website.
___________________________________________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg & Cindy Munson
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:15 PM
To: Ruth Beasley
Subject: Re: tiny male

Ruth,

Thank you VERY much for the pictures and pedigrees! How would you describe the "pixie face?"Do you think our Stempy had the "pixie face?"

We are not in any hurry either. We are more than willing to be patient and see how he develops. We have been on this quest since Stempy passed away in 2005, so a few more months is certainly no big deal.

I can tell you from the pedigrees that this pup and Stempy are related in several places on their pedigrees (1st cousins 5 times removed) (2nd cousins - twice removed).

He looks tiny and seems like he has that "look" I have been searching so long for! Does he have much coloring on his back?

I have to tell you that I am VERY excited about this little boy.......would you say he is gold and white with black markings?

We live in Mesquite....which is about a 4 hour drive to Pasadena....so that would not be too bad of a drive for us.

I agree with you about the breeders intentionally breeding down the sizes may be harming the breed. That is one reason our search has taken so long. I do not want to buy from them. I wanted another little champion sired boy like Stempy was.
Looking forward to the next pictures you take....

Thanks again!
Greg Munson
____________________________________________________________
From: Ruth Beasley
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:47 PM
To: Greg & Cindy Munson
Subject: RE: tiny male

Hi, Greg. The word pixie is a word I use to describe the pups that seem to grow up tiny in my pups. In other words, its just a word, no significance, only to me. Some actually look like lil ugly things and turn out to the really nice but small :) The ugly duckling effect. So, many times people that are looking for puppies actually pass on them because they are such ugly little things but then they get upset after they see them start growing.

Your stempy is a doll and I am sure that you will find one similar to him, maybe not exact but you will find the right one for your home. Will send pics when I take them. Talk to you soon, Ruth
_______________________________________________________
From: Ruth Beasley
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:56 PM
To: Greg & Cindy Munson
Subject: RE: tiny male

Hello, sorry I had a delay. Here are the pictures of Lil Cowboy, I decided on a name for him :) He is such a doll and his tail wags 90 miles an hour, lol... Anyway, it was a little hard to take pics because my camera is acting up and so was the puppy. He is 5 1/2 wksnow and weighing in 16 ounces to 1 pd on a full tummy. His pictures don't do him justice.Thanks for your patience, Ruth Beasley

http://pages.prodigy.net/pandashihtzus
_______________________________________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg & Cindy Munson
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:20 AM
To: Ruth Beasley
Subject: Re: tiny male

Ruth,

Not a problem on the delay. I knew you would send me pictures when you had a chance.

He is just simply adorable! From the pictures, it looks like he is built little. Short little legs and body. Tiny high set nose. Beautiful big eyes. Flat face. He is just awesome! I can just picture him wagging his little tail! And he weighs a whole pound! He is a little dude!

I forgot if you told me if this same dam and sirehave had a tiny one before. If so, do you happen to have any pictures of them (tiny ones)as adults? I would be interested to see what they grew up to look like. I am attaching a couple of pictures of Stempy as an adult that show his size. These pictures are from around 2001. This was the last time I ever let anyone else groom my dogs. They completely shaved him when we told them to leave his ears and tail long and he was not matted. We were soooo mad! I am not the best groomer, but I have improved over the years.

We REALLY like this little boy!

Greg Munson
____________________________________________________
From: Ruth Beasley
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 9:05 PM
To: Greg & Cindy Munson
Subject: RE: tiny male

Hello, Greg. Barbie and Clyde have had two litters so far. Therefirst litter was 2 pups, Jack and Jill. They are now 8 months old. Jill is 8 pds and I don't know, how big Jack turned out. But neither one of those pups were going to be little.They both were going to be 8-12 pds. As of now Jill is almost 8 pds .There second litter is this one of 3 pups, which includes lilcowboy :)

Now Barbie and my other retired Stud Fabio had two litters also. One litter was 4 puppies and one was big and one was medium and one was tiny and one was itty bitty. They were all the same size, when they were born but as they grew they started to show different sizes. Last report was that Emma the tiny one was 5-6 pds. Paris the itty bitty is 2-3 pds. The other two I never heard back from their owners :( I have attached pictures of Emma and Paris, full grown. One of Paris as a baby, she was a ugly duckling that turned into a swan:)

Barbie and Fabios other litter was 2 boys, one who is 16 pds and the other passed away as a baby on our way to San Antonio during hurricane Rita but he was going to be on the smaller side, I guess that is what did it.

So, as you can see, shih tzu are very unpredictable, I know some breeders, say they absolutely know they are going to be a certain size but with my lines, this is not so. At least this has been my experience in 11 yrs.

I am also attaching a picture of my up and coming stud out of my retired Fabio ( 10 1/2 pds) and Daisy my 12 pd girl. Junior is 8 months old and is 5 pds. I expected him to be bigger but he wants to stay smaller?? Go figure! Well, I got to go talk to you later, Ruth

______________________________________________________

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Greg & Cindy Munson"

Ruth,

Junior is awesome! You have yourself one fine little boy in him. If I was you, I sure would keep him, too! You sure you don't want to part with him? LOL. Just kidding!
I saw a formula somewhere that said take the weight at eight weeks and multiply times four to get approximate adult weight. Ever hear of that?

This little pup looks like he is built small. I just love his big eyes. We are definitely interested in him. Keeping my fingers crossed on size.

Greg Munson
____________________________________________________
From: rbeasley
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 6:13 AM
To: Greg & Cindy Munson
Subject: Re: tiny male

Good Morning, Yes, actually I was looking up shih tzu weight charts that night, I was taking pictures of the puppy. The reason I was doing that was because, when Junior was little by the time he was Lil Cowboys age he was almost double his size and now look at him???

I also had a puppy ( Baby) that weighed 2 pds at 3 wks, because she was the only one in the litter and was being a piggy:) She grew to be 8 pds full grown. Her parents were 12 pds and 11 pds.

Then I had a puppy ( Nemo) go home at 10 wks of age at only 12 ounces, don't ask me why I let the lady have him, I regret it always, but she kept buggin me back in the day and she persisted, until she got her way. Anyway, he ended up being 8 pds grown up. His parents were 6 pds and 8 pds. As you can see that was back in the day:)

So, the weight formula for me has never worked for me and I truly believe it depends on what God desires for the puppy to be.

Lil Cowboy loves him some food and you can even see it on one of his pictures. The one with the top view, you can see his sides sticking out, he had just eaten :) Anyway, keep in touch and NO :) I don't want Junior going anywhere! ttyl, Ruth
__________________________________________________
From: Greg & Cindy Munson
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 8:22 AM
To: Ruth Beasley
Subject: cowboy

Hi Ruth!

Just checking in on the little guy.... How is he doing?

Greg Munson
__________________________________________________
From: Ruth Beasley
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 7:37 PM
To: Greg & Cindy Munson
Subject: RE: cowboy

Greg, I am sorry, I did not get back with you sooner. I decided on a home for Cowboy about a week ago( someone who wanted him and did not care what size he ended up as an adult). I had been meaning to email you but have been extremly busy, thank you for your inquiries and I hope you find what you are looking for soon. Ruth Beasley

http://pages.prodigy.net/pandashihtzus
__________________________________________________
From: Greg & Cindy Munson
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 8:12 PM
To: Ruth Beasley
Subject: Re: cowboy

Ruth,

Oh my goodness. I wish you would have told me this before promising him to someone else. I would not have loved him any less if he had ended up full size. We had decided he was the one we had been looking for since Stempy passed away in September 2005. We have been looking for a LONG time. While we certainly hoped he would remain tiny like our Stempy, his adult size would have had no effect whatsoever on the lifetime of love and adoration we had in store for this little boy.
I am heartbroken and do not understand your method of choosing a home. You had told me that you only had one other person ask about him, but that they were looking for a bigger size Shih Tzu. You told me of no one else inquiring about him. We were under the impression that you were reserving him for us a courtesy, since you had stated on your website that you were not accepting deposits on this litter at present. I am absolutely floored, stunned, dismayed & bewildered.

In the interest of being fair, I would really like for you to please reconsider this decision. We had printed up his pictures and everything. My wife is very upset.

Greg Munson
_______________________________________________
From: Ruth Beasley
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 9:58 PM
To: Greg & Cindy Munson
Subject: RE: cowboy

Greg, I am truly sorry, you feel this way. My methods of choosing homes for my fur babies are based on personal beliefs, experiences, etc... I don't expect anyone to understand or agree with them because they are my methods. I reread your emails, just to make sure I had read them correctly and one of them, clearly stated that you had a reason for wanting tiny and that it was a prerequisite in purchasingapuppy. Definition in the dictionary to the word prerequisite is " something that is necessary to an end or to the carrying out of a function
You never once told me, in your emails, that you wanted the puppy but said you were very interested. Your inquiries were more of wanting to see pedigrees, if the parents ever had tiny in the past, etc.... all leading to desiring a tiny shih tzu. Again, I am truly sorry, you did not communicate to me that you 100% wanted this puppy, in fact we did not even get to the part of my selecting process of a personal phone call, that I require inchoosing a potential parent for my fur kids. I understand that at the time you emailed I was not taking deposits but usually people who are truly interested email almost daily to make sure they get what they want or ask for my phone number and hound me :)

I am sure your wife will understand, what happened, if you let her read this email. Things happen for a reason and I am sure you will find a nice tiny boy that will fit right in with your family. Sincerely, Ruth
__________________________________________________
From: Greg & Cindy Munson
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 11:38 AM
To: Ruth Beasley
Subject: Re: cowboy

Ruth,

Yes, my prerequisite is that thePUPPY is tiny - that gives us the best shot of the puppy being tiny as an adult. It doesn't guarantee it - but it gives us the best shot. NO ONE guarantees the adult size of their pups.

This puppy is tiny. Everything about him screams that he will be tiny as an adult. You had given the impression to me that this pup would not be leaving your home for awhile due to his size and you were in NO HURRY to place him. If I had the slightest inkling that you were already considering someone else as his permanent home, I would have made sure that you were clear of our intentions. I had even mentioned to you that your home was only a four hour drive from ours. All I was waiting on was his weight at 8 weeks of age. I was fully prepared to wait until you felt this boy was ready to go to his forever home.

I am not the type of person to BADGER you everyday with emails. About a year and a half ago, we had found a tiny boy from a show breeder in South Carolina. I emailed her everyday and I guess it got on her nerves because she decided to keep the boy for herself. Since that time, I try to be very careful because I don't want to make anyone mad.

Not once did you ask me to call you, which I assumed you would ask me to do as the pup got older. If you spent any time at all reading Stempy's website, it's very easy to see the type of people we are. I assumed you had done this because of your comment of being amazed at the length of time we have spent looking for another tiny boy.

The tiny ones are RARE from show breeders or breeders such as yourself who have a champion they are using as a stud. To find one in Texas was a dream come true. As evidenced by the length of time we have been searching, it is not as easy as you make it sound that we will find another soon. It could take another year or two or more.

I have communicated with ALOT of breeders over the past two and a half years in our long and exhaustive search. I do not remember exactly what I may or may not have said in an email as I have communicated with SO MANY. I do remember telling you that we were EXTREMELY INTERESTED in this little boy. To me, that is pretty clear.

Considering our situation, the courteous and RIGHT thing to do would have been to contact us if you were unsure of our intentions. We thought we had made our interest very clear to you.

In light of these circumstances, I am again asking you to PLEASE reconsider this unfair decision. PLEASE.

Thank you,
Greg Munson
_________________________________________________
From: Greg & Cindy Munson
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:43 AM
To: Ruth Beasley
Subject: Fw: cowboy

never received a response
_________________________________________________
From: Ruth Beasley
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 9:38 AM
To: Greg & Cindy Munson
Subject: Deleted: Fw: cowboy
Your message

To: Ruth Beasley
Subject: Fw: cowboy
Sent: 5/31/2008 9:43 AM

was deleted on 5/31/2008 10:37 AM.
_________________________________________________
From: gwm65
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 10:59 AM
To: Ruth Beasley
Subject: Fw: hello

Could you please have the courtesy and decency to respond to our email?
We are not being rude or ugly with you and I would appreciate knowing what we have done to warrant this treatment.

You may still be the only hope we have of getting a tiny boy.....somewhere down the line......so I would like to clear up our lines of communication. Maybe you better understand what we are looking for now - there is no reason to delete our email without reading.

Greg Munson
___________________________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg & Cindy Munson
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 8:49 PM
To: Ruth Beasley
Cc: pandashihtzus
Subject: ???

Ruth,

I have expressed EXTREME patience with you. I would like to know what we have done for you to flat out ignore us. That is completely disrespectful & hurtful. You are fully aware of what we have been through since Stempy died - where is the compassion and concern for your fellow human being? I've really 'bitten my tongue' in terms of my comments on your treatment.

I've now gone back and reviewed all of our email correspondence. I'm sorry, but you should have had a very clear understanding of our interest. You treated us unfairly and with a lack of respect.

I certainly hope this not your regular method of operation. If it is, then you haveno business being abreeder and playing with people's heartstrings as you do. It is my sincere hope that you did not purposely err in your dealing of our situation. I would really appreciate a return phone call from you so we can clear the air over this situation. My patience is starting to wear a little thin....

Greg Munson
___________________________________________________
From: Ruth Beasley
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:21 PM
To: Greg & Cindy Munson
Subject: RE: ???

Panda Shih Tzu's has the right to refuse to sell to anyone if it is not in the best interest of the puppy. As indicated on my website.

My decision was my right. You have no right toMY propertyandNOTHING was ever promised to you.With all these harassing emails from you, I am GLAD I went with my first intuition. As far as my compassion for my fellow human being that is not for you to question nor judge as yousaid you are not a breeder, so thereforeyou are not in my shoes. ( at least not that I know of as of yet).

My not responding to earlier emails from youis also my right to keep the peace as I see fit. Understand Iwill never place a puppy with you,especially after all this. Please CEASE AND DESIST any further contact as of today's date 6-2-08 either by email, postal mail or phone. Ruth Beasley of PANDA SHIH TZUS
__________________________________________________
From: Greg & Cindy Munson
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 10:33 PM
To: Ruth Beasley
Cc: pandashihtzus
Subject: Re: ???

not in the best interest of the puppy? WHATEVER. You just stepped over the line.
You can refuse to sell to whoever you want. You not selling to me has NOTHING to do with the best interest of the puppy. For you to say otherwise is SLANDER and I WILL NOT tolerate it. I am EXACTLY the type of home you should be seeking for the pups. You can not like me all you want, but don't you DARE criticize the home I provide. PERIOD. YOU KNOW NOT OF WHAT YOU SPEAK.You have the NERVE to talk to me like this? Let me tell you right now - you do not threaten me. Period. I am a respected and respectful individual and you don't treat me like this. There are review sites everywhere and you better believe I will tell people of my truthful experience with you.

You are WAY OUT OF LINE.

The psychic was right. Bad vibes about you from the get go. Your former stud dog in Austin is not a happy camper - depressed.

You need to get over yourself - and quickly. You have made a terrible misjudgment. You think your methods are above reproach? You've just shown your true colors - andthey sure are ugly.

Do not contact me again, you unethical piece of trash. Today is the 3rd, not the 2nd. I showed you WAY more respect than you EVER deserved. You are a TERRIBLE "backyard" breeder. You bought a champion. Big deal. You don't show the offspring. It's all about the money with you. Your little junior boy that you are so proud of -the son of the depressed former stud- you are not planning to breed him are you? He's UNDERSIZED. The ASTC would quickly tell you that he is not breeding quality due to size. Shih Tzu were not put on this earth so that you could make a living.

Ethics. You don't have them.

The Creator of All knows all AND sees all. Explain it to them.
____________________________________________________


RUTH BEASLEY YOU WERE IN THE WRONG. PERIOD.

1. No deposit = Not Sold. Only once the money is recieved and accepted is the pet reserved. And most breeder's will not be so quick to place a puppy with someone looking for a 'replacement' as they know the new owners are not likely going to be happy with their new puppy since it's NOT the other, and never can be.
2. Champion sired ( 9 to 16 pounds) no more than 6 pounds? Mom and dad's size are not always the best indicator's, but if you are looking for a long line of dogs whom met standard, 6 pounds might be difficult to find.
3. What happened to Stempy? 6 pounds? I saw alot of liver shunts as a tech ....... There are two incidences in your life you have opened up for example, and in both you feel a need to lay blame, whether it be right or wrong. Was it REALLy the vet's fault?
4. It's sad to see someone act so bitter and cruel. To try to hurt someone that badly because things didn't go your way? She didn't even have an agreement with you, by your own words (no deposit), and yet you call AC? For someone whom cares, you might have caused the very same heartbreak you feel over not having Stempy in your lives, to someone else, for no better reason than spite and vindictiveness it seems. Who keeps mentioning karma here? I know you must be hurting, but why feel the need to inflict it and project it on others?

Hello, Greg and Cindy Munson.

First and foremost, I would like you to know. I do not hate you nor am I mad at you. From the get go there was never any intentions to hurt you nor get hurt by you. I don't think anyone goes into these things with that in mind.

Again you inquired about a puppy, that was not available at that particular moment for deposit and I told you that. I also received several other emails, after yours, about him and the other puppy. Being that I recieve emails all the time I do not take anyone seriously unless they pursue more information on the puppy. It is not my practice to tell all parties inquring about the same puppy as, I don't want to come off as a used car sales person.

I also do not consider a puppy on hold for anyone unless we have talked and past several steps into placing the puppy and a promise to send a deposit, I then only hold the puppy for the time to get the deposit to me.

I told you I was sorry, you didn't follow up on your initial inquries and missed out on the puppy.

You then told me that you didn't want to bother me because a show breeder in South Carolina had gotten upset with you emailing daily about a puppy you wanted and she decided to keep it for herself. ( which is a nice way of saying, I will not be placing it with you). Unless of course she really did keep it and that is also a breeders right.


I was however offended at your extreme persistence to email me and plead with me to change my decision as your wife was set on the puppy. You tried to tell me to place the puppy with you after I had already made my decision and the lady was sending the deposit.

I never once called you names as you did me. I never once told you, that you were a bad dog person as you have done me. I never once accused you of being unethical as you did me. So, no, I did not take kindly to your choice of words.

You told me, I was a Unethical Backyard Piece of Trash Breeder!

You said your physic told you my retired stud Fabio who lives in Austin is depressed.

You told me anyone can buy a Champion and that I didn't even show my shih tzu.

You told me, that Junior my toddler shih tzu that I thought so highly of was not even breed standard and I was unethical for even wanting to breed him.

You told me you were going to make sure, to tell anyone about my ways?

So, yes, after several emails from you and phone calls and a message left on my phone. I chose to email you to please, stop and cease and desist from emailing me and calling me any further, that I would never do business with you and place a puppy with you. You emailed me back and laughed and said you were scared of me and that you could email me if you wanted.

First, FYI. I have shown in the past but do not advertise it on my website because I did not get very far with the dogs I previously owned. I also had a show shih tzu breeder for a mentor and she and I bought and had several dogs between us.

That is why I know several people that were in the ring at that time in my life and those in puppy classes and the people in charge of the puppy classes. It was short lived and my heart still would like to go back.

Life took a turn for me that I did not expect and my family needed me to take care of them first. They hated the fact that I was gone almost all weekends and out with my dog friends. My kids were young at that time and wanted me home and I wanted to be home to go to church with them.

Having paid someone to show and champion a dog does not make me any less of a person or breeder. I paid my dues.

As per Junior he lives happily in Kansas with a breeder who loves him. Just as Fabio his father does. For you to tell me that your physic told you my dog was depressed??

To answer your question about how many dogs I have. TWO: My champion Clyde and Olivia. Yeah, I own a parakeet and a bunny, lol.... Which by the way, the city says is okay ;0)

If you are referring to any pictures of dogs I have on my website. Those are a collection of previous shih tzu or friend and family's shih tzu that I breed my male to and help or co own with them to maintain my compliance with my city.

I have explained to you again, now can you explain to me why you did everything you did? From calling me names to getting upset with me for not placing the puppy with you? Or for calling animal control on me?

You say you are interested in showing shih tzu. Well, I hope you do well and exceed beyond any of your expectations. Please, understand this. You can never please everyone you come in contact with because they have their own personal perspectives and that is what makes the world go round.

Just as you had your own personal perspective of what happened and I mine. That is our perogitive in this life. But when you say, Karma, I think of someone getting a taste of their own medicine by a different party not Vengence which is take a personal hand in dealing what a person thinks is justice.

Do I require an apology from you for everthing you said to me. Absolutely not because I believe that is your decision to make.

I want you to know that I have forgiven you and don't hold a grudge. Just a little hurt when you put stuff like this online but no biggie ;0) I truly hope you succeed in the ring and hope to one day go back but as it stands that may never happen. Hope you have a good life!

Guess what? I have all of the emails as well and they clearly support the original report. No money ever exchanged hands and we never said it had. Regardless of that fact, you still treated us in a most unprofessional manner. We could handle not getting the pup. It was the way you treated us that was the problem. And you still do not get it. All you had to do was apologize for leading us on and playing with others' emotions. Instead, you chose to attack us and then terminate email contact with us because we called you out on it. We remained cordial in our comments with you until that point. I'm sorry, but the way you treated us was very disrespectful. You were wrong. Period.

By the way, we ARE in compliance with our city code. Perhaps you should do better research.

Also, you stated that we have 'several' new champion sired males. Are you just making this up as you go? We have TWO male Shih Tzu - only ONE of which is champion sired. The second male has an awesome pedigree, but he is NOT champion sired. We also own a soon to be 10 year old female Shih Tzu, a soon to be 6 year old female Irish Setter, and a 3 year old female Lhasa. That's 5 total doggies - all beloved - all very well cared for. How many dogs do you have?

Eventually we WILL add another little boy - that resembles Stempy as closely as possible. He does not have to BE Stempy. We never said he did.

Someday soon we will be moving out to the country. At that point, we may be interested in entering the show ring with the Shih Tzu breed. As stated previously, karma is b-tch.

How dare you mention the negligent veterinary care received by our late beloved little boy in your vain attempt to try and discredit us. This just goes to show the type of person you really are. What happened to Stempy was preventable and it most certainly was NOT his time to go.

Climb down off of your high horse. Admit when you are wrong and move forward. You'll save yourself and others a whole lot of grief.

Hello, Cindy and Greg M from Mesquite, Tx. Also, known by their websites listed under (((Redacted)))

I am not quite sure how, I made it on to this list because, usually you have to rip off someone to get on here?? NO, MONEY, was ever exchanged or deposit ever made, so that someone would think they were chosen for any puppy.

I am well known to many breeders through out the U.S. for being a person to stay out of breeder wars and sometimes, even trying to make peace amongest a few.

Having had a hobby for over 11 years of improving shih tzu, not once have I had a puppy parent that was not satisfied.

My decision of where I place my pups are based on several steps I take to find the right homes for my babies in order to ensure they will be their permanent homes.


You have to get past step one and that is the first email inquiry and onto a phone interview, vet references, etc.....

Cindy and Greg Munson, emailed about a puppy I had up for placement. They said they had purchased several males Ch. sired shih tzu as they were looking for the reincarnation of their dog Stempy who they claim a bad veterinarian killed. They told me their psychic had warned them about me but they went ahead and tried anyway. Their need was to find the reincarnation of Stempy: requirements were no bigger than 6 pds and that he be Champion sired??

Well, I ended up placing the puppy with someone else and I guess this is why I am listed on this website for being a good breeder and caring, where my babies go to.

As far as being in compliance with my city. I am.

I believe in Mesquite, Tx. you are allowed only 3 dogs per home and they must be spayed or neutered. Cindy you and Greg have more than that. Don't worry, I am not going to call on you as you did me:( Yes, I was grieved to my heart about having Animal Control knocking at my door because you sent them there. I guess you didnt know that a person can file with the city to get the information on who sent animal control to your house, did you? They won't give out your name but they give you a copy of the report, which includes any proof they sent to make the claim. Even when I found out, I did not say anything to you. I was just curious and needed to know, what type of person had done this to me.

By you posting this, it only confirms the findings. I would never in my life call animal control on someone just because I didn't get what I wanted??

I myself have missed out on shih tzu in the past because I wasn't fast enough or they were placed with other people. Just this Christmas, I paid in full for a cat and waited patiently for 15 days and the lady refunded my money. Am I going to get upset and call on her, ABSOLUTELY NOT! Had she stole my money and not sent me the cat that would have been a different story. This cat was to be a Christmas present so you can imagine the emotional pain but even then I would not do anyone that harm.

My personal opnion is that you let go and get past these types of things in your life and go on and live and not only exist to cause pain on others as you only cause yourself the ultimate grief! I think the Vet you have torn to pieces should also be crossed off your list of vengence, ( It was God that made the last Decision when God took Stempy's life!)

I am not making light of your situation just concerned that you may end up bitter in the end and that is no way to live, as this only causes you to exist like a zombie in this world. Enjoy the dogs you have and stop looking for Stempy he is gone. If you want to buy another shih tzu, wonderful! Just don't expect it to be Stempy.

Myself, I will go on as usual and live my life, there are more important things in this life than to quarrel. Hope you have a good life.

P.S. yes I have all the emails you sent me ;0)

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.