• Report: #44467
Complaint Review:

Ds Max, Dsmax, Ds-max, Cydcor, Granton Marketing

  • Submitted: Thu, February 06, 2003
  • Updated: Wed, March 26, 2003

  • Reported By:pomona California
Ds Max, Dsmax, Ds-max, Cydcor, Granton Marketing
19511 Pauling Foothill Ranch, California U.S.A.

Ds Max, Dsmax, Ds-max, Cydcor, Granton Marketing smile to your face & ruin your life under your nose false promises fraudulent rip-off Foothill Ranch Farmingdale NEW YORK Toronto Canada globally

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: The big wigs could tell you one thing one day, change it the next and you would be ready to promote, believe, merch and die for it.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: You are so into it you continue to blindly believe everything you are told. Start questioning this reality you have adopted.


*UPDATE EX-employee responds: And like a plague of boils,the race of dsmax cultists covered the earth

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There are several things on this sight about ds-max now. Here is a good insight for you folks. It has to deal with when the founder came back in the business and about how some people got messed up.

Murray Reinhart, founder of Dsmax, retired in 1990. At the end of 1996 he came back in the business. He had originally retired to be with his wife and son. But he got divorced and his son started asking him to get a life, so he came back in the business. He picked the communications business to start in. At&t was just starting.

He went back in the field in Chris Bell's office in Chicago. One of the people that retrained him was Dave Zinke. Dave made assistant manager. Murray decided to open up in LA. Now Murray didn't have to build a crew. He is the founder after all. So what he did is partner up with Dave. Plus, Rosie sent him 5 volunteers that wanted to help him open up his new deal. You see, Rosario had an office in New York, which was the first AT&T office, Chris Bell had Chicago - so Murray opted for the west coast. When they fist opened up in the beginning of 1997 it was exciting! They put out a lot of deals!

This guy Dave and Murray got to regional manager. But Dave got too dishonest and swindled money from Murray, his guys and prematurely shut down some deals. So good old Dave got the boot - regional manager and all. It was a terrible scandal! Originally a story came out that Dave was retiring because of health or to be with his family. (I remember feeling SO frustrated! Dave was so near VP why couldn't he just stick it out? ah the irony I thought - but little did I know!!!) It made Murray look bad in front of Larry and Avie!

You see, Murray needed a partner so that he could go around and attend rallys and try and start a division. He never checked up on old Dave. The entire office refferred to him as Stinky-Zinke after he left. You see, Murray and Dave had put out lots of Deals, but the powers that be wanted to see Dave put out deals on his own. So Murray pretty much left him alone for a year - and he stagnated.

During that year probation, Dave never wanted to put out deals. He was content with the leaders that had been with him for a long time. He would hold long leaders meetings and then siphon money off their checks. And then they found out he was embezzling money all along! Their entire organization was just SHELLSHOCKED! No manager in the Dot com organization woanted to believe that Dave could do such things!

Lots of details unfolded later. Dave had an administrator named Becky that was completely on his side. She would stonewall the guys when they would ask about their checks. ie They were doing a campaign called CSI. It is the type of campaign where you only get one or two sales a week. They got payed bi-weekly.

What Dave would do is have her say that an application was not turned in, or got rejected or something. Then he would go and resign the application himself or just pu himself as the sales rep. Becky got canned after Daves ouster. Last I heard she was living in a motel.

He promoted one guy named R. Never ever gave him the full overrides. He promoted another partnership. They were doing OK. But he shut them down to boost his own numbers. One guy, J, followed Dave out from Chicago to LA. Dave put him in business in Florida and then SHUT him down to have him come back to CA and boost his office numbers. Dave and Murray became famous for retraining failed managers and putting them out in deals again.

They would put these guys out, take the credit make the overrides and have them count as some of the deals necessary to make vp status. These deals wouldn't get shut down so easily because they knew better. They were also easier to promote besuse these guys were already committed to the business and new how to build crews.

Plus, they didn't build them as managers to begin with so they were easy promotions for him - they were already great at building crews. So he got some easy deals out that made him assistant manager, happened to be lucky enough to partner with Murray and therefore had a great promoting tool in his office.

Furthermore, it was especially troublesome for the guys in Daves office. You see, no one ever dared to question THE partner of Murray himself!

After learning as much as I have - I have to wonder. It might not have been completely Daves Idea about shutting down deals to boost his own numbers. He was after all, partnered with Murray Reinhart the freaking founder! Murray must have been shutting down deals to boost his own numbers when Dave was in Middle School!

So much Hype was given for the Dot com orgainization! And Dave Pissed most of it away because Murray was busy doing other things!

One girl took over Daves office after he was toasted. The office was put on CSI and a fraudulent capmpaign that sold Condo packages that never worked. This girl was honest but toasted after 6 months. The Dishones travel campaign was shut down and most of her people quit. Another woman took over the CSI part. Don't know a heck of a lot more about that accept that she did not build a crew to get her Job! She had money saved. So because she had money saved, she did not have to build a crew and was in the right place at the right time to head a cydcor office.

So the very company that promotes up and down at rally's that they can't be bought - was bought. I remember when Larry Tanenbaum told a story about a rich German that wanted to buy inot DSmax rights for Germany. He said he called Murray and Murray said to keep his million dollars and to show up at the office at 7:30 with walking shoes and be prepared to spend a full day(as if for a day of observation)!

Greed and Corruption run rampant in the entire DS-max organization!

What a sham!!!!!

pomona, California

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This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 02/06/2003 06:06 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ds-max-dsmax-ds-max-cydcor-granton-marketing/foothill-ranch-california-92516/ds-max-dsmax-ds-max-cydcor-granton-marketing-smile-to-your-face-ruin-your-life-under-44467. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 UPDATE EX-employee responds

The big wigs could tell you one thing one day, change it the next and you would be ready to promote, believe, merch and die for it.

AUTHOR: Todd - (U.S.A.)

Your crew that you built might turn on you and toast, your owner might be a p***k - but you should never never doubt the system and all that it stands for. Never doubt that corporate always has your best interest at heart.

Just stop thinking and believe in the system.

You don't make millions of dollars a year like we do so nothing you say can compare to the what we are telling you to do to make money like we do.

They want to accept all the credit and none of the blame. You mess up - they are teflon. It is all on you - you knew everything up front. (they gave you all the negatives but make it not seem so bad by promoting the positives) And when things are going your way - it is always because you listened to what they said and applied it.

Well I now know different!!!

Here is what some one else had to say about this blind all or nothing belief:

Do not believe what you have heard.
Do not believe in tradition because it is handed down many generations.
Do not believe in anything that has been spoken of many times.
Do not believe because the written statements come from some old sage.
Do not believe in conjecture.
Do not believe in authority or teachers or elders.
But after careful observation and analysis, when it agrees with reason and it will benefit one and all, then accept it and live by it.

Buddha (563 B.C. - 483 B.C.)

Funny what some one dead 2500 years can tell us now. This is not meant to convert people to buddhism. (I myself am not)

Applying something like this takes courage. If only many of us were open to these words back when we were in the business.

Of course we have to be open to paying attention. Once I saw a list of cult symptoms while in the business and saw many similarities to Dsmax. But I was so close minded - I would not acknowledge the reality. I didn't want to give up on my dream to the point of fault.

But reading this helps me see the errors of my past and hopefully I have learned and will make better decisions in the future. I hope these words do similar things for you.

I welcome others insights...
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#2 UPDATE EX-employee responds

You are so into it you continue to blindly believe everything you are told. Start questioning this reality you have adopted.

AUTHOR: Todd - (U.S.A.)

I won't use names. But at least two of the deals that they had should never have been shut down. Unquestionably. And they had an assistant manager on CSI that never got overrides. So that is at least 3 promotions that got messed with.

I'm willing to go with you though and say that Dave was the main evil one. I've never heard of Murray taking any part of anyones pay check. And he is generous.

But his systems has and continues to lead many to a road of perdition.

So Murray should have screened. That is one of the main problems with the whole organization! Why do you think you loose so many clients and have so many stories like this?

I won't stay up at night worrying about Murrays welfare. He's got more than enough money. And even though Dave swindled alot - Murray still got a nice slice. I'd rather pray for the victims. ALL THREE OF THE THOSE DEALS THAT GOT MESSED WITH - WERE ALL PEOPLE THAT SPENT AT LEAST TWO YEARS IN THE FIELD!!! So I'm sorry Murray got his feelings hurt. He is a great man. I have never seen a better speaker. And I sincerely wish him the best. I do not wish any harm at all on that man.

But look at the consequences of his actions!!!
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#3 UPDATE Employee


AUTHOR: Anonymous - (U.S.A.)

I don't know how long you were a part of DS MAX- Obviously long enough to see the in's & out's of Dave & Murray.

I know Dave & Murray both very well.and you are about 80% correct.

You are right- Dave did turn out to be stealing money and practicing huge unethical work habits affecting very many people. and it was SAD!! Really SAD!! He made money and then he got greedy- Money changes some people!!

But Murray had nothing to do with this dishonesty!!!

The reason Owners come back to "retrain" back in their office after once being put out is because that owner was failing in their city. Do you realize that every time an owner failed, Dave & Murray had to fund them in their city? It was the right business decision to bring them back in under their roof, give them more training, allow that owner to learn from their mistakes, save some money and go back out again.

I guess the unfortunate thing about it all was that MURRAY believed SO HIGHLY in equal opportunity and "Let's give everyone a chance!" that he unfortunately also trained some bad apples along the way whom- once opened their office- could not handle the day to day operations-probably because they were more trained by Dave and not Murray. Murray should have screend people more- including Dave.

Murray is a good, honest, spiritual man who practices honesty, integrity, and doing the right thing. He did the right thing by getting rid of Dave- as Far as him not wanting to be embarrassed in front of AVie & Larry- that is not true. It was Avie, Larry, & Murray who sat down all together to make the right decision.
Avie had a conference call with select owners to tell us what happened.

The whole thing about him leaving to be with his family was not some kind of planned cover up for Murray- WHAT would you have done if you were Murray???TELL everyone that Dave is some BIG FAT LIAR that screwed us all. Murray was very shocked and hurt when all the truth came out. He acted from his heart. THere was a lot of people counting on them. Murray was left to scrape up all the pieces of Dave's deception and NOW UNFORTUNATELY- Murray is victim by association!!!

DID you ever stop to think that the person that got screwed the most was MURRAY because of DAVE???

I know Murray very, very well. Don't hold it against him because Dave swindled him...

Murray has created tons of opportuinities for many, many people. Some people perceive our business wrong, and YES some people have bad experiences- as is with ANY BIG COMPANY- There will ALWAYS Be disgruntled people and if I had worked in Dave's office- I would have been pissed off too-I don't blame you- But that was DAVE ZINKI-
NOT DSMAX OR MURRAY OR CYDCOR. and yes there are many offices run by INCREDIBLE OWNERS HELPING others & doing the right thing in this huge organization!!! BUt-like anything else- there are cancers that spread like wildfire- and you unfortunately had a bad experience and I wish you could have worked out of the office I Have!!

It's been an incredible, profitable, exciting, learning experience for me in such a GREAT way- and has led me to incredible heights!!I am very happy with my outcome..
Good luck!
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#4 UPDATE EX-employee responds

And like a plague of boils,the race of dsmax cultists covered the earth

AUTHOR: Richard - (Australia)

i was a victim of the so called 'dsmax' Buisness Cult, through their company Cobra. i live in Australia, this cultist activity is spreading all over the earth like theres no tomorrow.
your description of 'Murray' is exactly what i thought someone capable of running an evil organisation,like this one, must be like.
thank you for your inquisitive insight.
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