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Report: #53470

Complaint Review: DS MAX - Melbourne, Brisbane, Sydney, Perth Australia

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  • DS MAX Too Long Melbourne, Brisbane, Sydney, Perth Australia, Australia

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Maybe calling it a scam is too harsh a word. It's not really a scam; it's just a no, I suppose it is a scam.

I worked for DS MAX in Australia for about 6 years. I was promoted to Assistant Manager four months after starting and shortly therafter opened my own office in a new city where I knew no-one and where there were also no other DS MAX offices.

I was as pumped as the 20 yr old owner from Canada. But that office failed and I had to leave and go to another city where my original owner had moved to open another office.

I worked my a*s off out in the field again and made it to ownership once more. I saved about $40,000 in a year or so and promoted out three owners. The problem was that I couldn't send my promotions where I - and they - wanted to go. There was always some VP telling you where to send them. Not very "independent".

It was about this time that I started to question the ethics of the company, and what I was doing. There had been many things over the years that made me stop and think; but my doubts were always assuaged by the incredible bank of motivational crap that had been downloaded into my brain.

Yet now I felt myself returning to the good, honest, sincere individual that I was before I was turned into this greedy, win at all costs, money and success obsessesed idiot. The final straw was when we had a government agency enquiring into the companies' activities. That was when the attitude of "head office" changed. They cut the cord and let us swim for ourselves. Not that there was any serious trouble; we just had to modify our advertising. Yet, the attitude change of the VP's always remained with me.

A year or so later I closed my office and have had no contact with the company for about four years.

Just a few facts to set the record straight.

ADVERTISING - I have been to many, many owners meetings where other owners and VP's tell you how to advertise and interview. Never have I ever heard one of them say that an owner should tell a potential recruit that their O Day would involve door to door sales. Now, anyone can come back at me with a thousand responses, but that is just outright deception. Of course, they hope that most people will get caught up in the excitement of it all and forget that they were lied to. Yet, I have a sneaking suspicion that this 'first'lie stays with people for a long time. I never forgot it, and I'm sure most people to whom I lied didn't forget it either.

COMPANY SUPPORT - The company supports you as long as you:
A/ Toe the line and regurgitate the manifesto or
B/ Make them tonnes of money

BRAINWASHING - There is no question in my mind that the techniques used by DS MAX constitute brainwashing, yet there are many other examples of other companies that use other tactics to control their staff. Uniforms, jargon, meetings, incentives, harrasment etc are all forms of brainwashing. Yet the insidious part of DS MAX is the manner in which they take over the lives of their people. The amount of time, the laborious meetings, going out with your crew to the movies or for dinner, calling them on Sundays. Gimme a break! Why? Why do they promote these things? Why do they want you to "get with" only positive people? Answer: To keep you cocooned in a shell of their own making. Just think, If you were a steadfast capitalist and you were kept in a communist village of China, without news from the west for ten years, constantly bombarded with Chairman Mao's propaganda, you would probably end up being a fully fledged communist too. Now, they may argue that this is true; they are making people better, turning them into millionaires.. yeh yeh yeh... How many of these "millionaires" are retired? Apart from Murray (who started it). All the others, as far as I know, still go to work day in day out - Even Larry and Avie, last I heard.

INDEPENDENCE - There really is none of this. You are the owner of your own business, and yet VP'S and others would chastise you for not doing something, or they would 'decree' that the next owners meeting would be at a certain time and place and you would be compelled to attend; not legally, psychologically. And I never once in six years ever took a break, or had a day off, other than the times that 'head office' was closed over XMAS. Independence YA!

YOUR OWN CREW - Probably the thing that I ended up hating the most was opening up the office everyday to see the same old faces; guys that had been around for years and never even come close, thinking that they were going to make it. And me telling them that if they keep going they will make it. That old chestnut "There are only 2 options; winning and losing.If you never ever give up, the only option left is to win." Yeh yeh...

And this brings me to the point of my argument. The thing about DS MAX - and all other MLM companies for that matter - is this:

These companies (The real owners) are in it to make money for themselves, not you. They will run their companies to best profit themselves, even if it means you (the distributor &/ or owner) will be disadvantaged. They care nothing for you. The more distributors who will work for free - because that is what you do, they outlay nothing - the more money they make.

The other important thing is twofold;
1/ Not everyone who works for DS MAX will be an owner. By this I do not just mean 'the law of averages', (ie.60 distributors = 1 new owner.) I mean that there are people out there who will NEVER EVER be owners because they do not have the ability, make-up, charisma, intelligence, savvy etc etc. I DO NOT CARE what any DS MAX owner says about this. Owners are not "made". They might be improved or have their skills honed, but never once in six years (and that means thousands of applicants) have I seen a person walk into an office and I've thought "oh that guy/girl will never make it" and they did. NEVER. And I would estimate that I have personally known about sixty or seventy owners - you do the math.

2/ There is no special "opportunity". You have the same opportunity working at many other businesses. There are plenty of stories out there about 'truck drivers' who ended up running billion dollar transport companies or 'window cleaners' who ran billion dollar corporations. Here in Australia, the McDonalds CEO began by making hamburgers. You do not need the bullshit from DS MAX to become rich if that's what you want - there are other opportunities out there. And that's why I'm here, to talk about Herbalife... Only kidding! There's another story...How much time have we got?

To finish off, I must say I have mixed feelings about writing this; I did learn alot about people and about myself working at DS MAX. Yet the experience turned me into someone I didn't like. It became a habit to lie to people (simple little lies - short stories they were called), it became a habit to play with people's emotions, to toy with them and try to get them to do what you want them to do, because they want to do it, even if you know it is not in their best interests.

And to set the record straight, after six years of making money, losing money, making money, losing money, I left because I hated it... And it had nothing to do with 'failing'. I was a success. But now I'm more of a success; because I love what I do, I happy... and I am ME, not some manufactured drone with a carbon-copied personality.

PS When the next owner replies to this message, could he/she first please answer this question.
Who do YOU know, out of the millions of people that have worked for WWI /DS MAX / Granton that started out in the field - that is now retired?

Mark, Sydney

Mark
Sydney
Australia

Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on ds-max, dsmax, ds/max, granton marketing, cydcor

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 04/18/2003 10:44 AM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ds-max/melbourne-brisbane-sydney-perth-australia-3000/ds-max-aka-ww-industries-cobra-import-export-granton-marketing-if-it-looks-like-a-scam-53470. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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#5 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Brian was my trainer

AUTHOR: Paul - (USA)

POSTED: Monday, March 14, 2011

Brian was my trainer. To keep it short and simple, Brian ain't lie'n. Everything he said is true and also happened to me in CA and TX.

I will post my personal story later. Or if anyone wishes to contact me By email@ (((ROR redacted)))

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

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#4 UPDATE EX-employee responds

You couldn't be more right!!! Ds-max is a scam.

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, June 08, 2003

I am so glad to have read your report because you are exactly right. Ds-max is a scam.

I had worked for Ds-max for the last 4 and a half years. Going through the field I had my car repoed, credit distroyed, lived with 15 people in a 2 bedroom apartment, (because nobody made money) and lost the only girl I ever loved for this so called oppurtunity called Ds-max.

Throughout my time with Ds-max I had trained and promoted 5 Asst.Managers which 3 became owners, I was given President Awards / Top Ownership awards/ jewlery/ and loads of recognition for my achievements, but all along I never made the money I was so lured into in the begining.

Ds-max is a promoting business, but there is a difference between promoting and flat out lieing to people. I would motivate people to work hard knowing they had no chance of ever making it in this business, but this is how the business works, so I would do what so many other managers do I would stroke their egos, Just like Larry Tienbalm said, "We are not in the sales business, we are in the business of building egos". Yeah but to what extent.

I just couldn't stand misleading people anymore, Other owners would call me complaining they were not making money, and I would always tell them " don't worry you will", knowing all along I hadn't seen a dime. These people were my friends but I just gave them the standard answer," don't worry, all you got to do is keep working you'll catch your wave," BULLSHIT.

The only wave you catch is the wave of brainwashed crap they tell you to keep motivating yourself. The final straw for me was looking at how much money I had paid into Granton Marketing (Ds-max) and looking at what I had to show for it.

Over the last 2 and a half years I had paid in over $800,000.00 to Granton Marketing, but yet I have nothing. This Business Is A SCAM. When you really think about it, all you are is a glorified retail manager, sure you own your business, sure you don't have a boss, sure you make a $100,000.00 a year, BULLSHIT

1. You dont own any business, If it was a real business you could sell it, unfortunatly you can't. The reason you are incorporated is to seperate you from Ds-max, If something goes wrong you are responsible for it.

2. You dont have a boss, If you didn't have a boss you could do whatever you wanted, you could take a vacation, or something like that, but you cant because they can shut you down, with no product what business are you the boss of.

3. You make a $100,000.00 a year, is that gross or net ? Well let me tell you with all the expenses of running business, I don't know more than five owners who have made close to that. Don't get me wrong there are some owners that I know who have made money, But the mass majority do not.

So to conclude my rant, thank you for telling it how it is, this business is a scam!!!
If anyone is contemplating Ds-max as a vehicle for finacial independance, you should continue looking.

To the people who still work there, I give you all the respect in the world, The reason I do,is because you probably do not realize what you are doing to people or what really awaits you as you progress within the business. Take it from me, If you enjoy what you are doing leave on a positive note and take that experience and move on.

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#3 UPDATE EX-employee responds

You couldn't be more right!!! Ds-max is a scam.

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, June 08, 2003

I am so glad to have read your report because you are exactly right. Ds-max is a scam.

I had worked for Ds-max for the last 4 and a half years. Going through the field I had my car repoed, credit distroyed, lived with 15 people in a 2 bedroom apartment, (because nobody made money) and lost the only girl I ever loved for this so called oppurtunity called Ds-max.

Throughout my time with Ds-max I had trained and promoted 5 Asst.Managers which 3 became owners, I was given President Awards / Top Ownership awards/ jewlery/ and loads of recognition for my achievements, but all along I never made the money I was so lured into in the begining.

Ds-max is a promoting business, but there is a difference between promoting and flat out lieing to people. I would motivate people to work hard knowing they had no chance of ever making it in this business, but this is how the business works, so I would do what so many other managers do I would stroke their egos, Just like Larry Tienbalm said, "We are not in the sales business, we are in the business of building egos". Yeah but to what extent.

I just couldn't stand misleading people anymore, Other owners would call me complaining they were not making money, and I would always tell them " don't worry you will", knowing all along I hadn't seen a dime. These people were my friends but I just gave them the standard answer," don't worry, all you got to do is keep working you'll catch your wave," BULLSHIT.

The only wave you catch is the wave of brainwashed crap they tell you to keep motivating yourself. The final straw for me was looking at how much money I had paid into Granton Marketing (Ds-max) and looking at what I had to show for it.

Over the last 2 and a half years I had paid in over $800,000.00 to Granton Marketing, but yet I have nothing. This Business Is A SCAM. When you really think about it, all you are is a glorified retail manager, sure you own your business, sure you don't have a boss, sure you make a $100,000.00 a year, BULLSHIT

1. You dont own any business, If it was a real business you could sell it, unfortunatly you can't. The reason you are incorporated is to seperate you from Ds-max, If something goes wrong you are responsible for it.

2. You dont have a boss, If you didn't have a boss you could do whatever you wanted, you could take a vacation, or something like that, but you cant because they can shut you down, with no product what business are you the boss of.

3. You make a $100,000.00 a year, is that gross or net ? Well let me tell you with all the expenses of running business, I don't know more than five owners who have made close to that. Don't get me wrong there are some owners that I know who have made money, But the mass majority do not.

So to conclude my rant, thank you for telling it how it is, this business is a scam!!!
If anyone is contemplating Ds-max as a vehicle for finacial independance, you should continue looking.

To the people who still work there, I give you all the respect in the world, The reason I do,is because you probably do not realize what you are doing to people or what really awaits you as you progress within the business. Take it from me, If you enjoy what you are doing leave on a positive note and take that experience and move on.

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#2 UPDATE EX-employee responds

You couldn't be more right!!! Ds-max is a scam.

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, June 08, 2003

I am so glad to have read your report because you are exactly right. Ds-max is a scam.

I had worked for Ds-max for the last 4 and a half years. Going through the field I had my car repoed, credit distroyed, lived with 15 people in a 2 bedroom apartment, (because nobody made money) and lost the only girl I ever loved for this so called oppurtunity called Ds-max.

Throughout my time with Ds-max I had trained and promoted 5 Asst.Managers which 3 became owners, I was given President Awards / Top Ownership awards/ jewlery/ and loads of recognition for my achievements, but all along I never made the money I was so lured into in the begining.

Ds-max is a promoting business, but there is a difference between promoting and flat out lieing to people. I would motivate people to work hard knowing they had no chance of ever making it in this business, but this is how the business works, so I would do what so many other managers do I would stroke their egos, Just like Larry Tienbalm said, "We are not in the sales business, we are in the business of building egos". Yeah but to what extent.

I just couldn't stand misleading people anymore, Other owners would call me complaining they were not making money, and I would always tell them " don't worry you will", knowing all along I hadn't seen a dime. These people were my friends but I just gave them the standard answer," don't worry, all you got to do is keep working you'll catch your wave," BULLSHIT.

The only wave you catch is the wave of brainwashed crap they tell you to keep motivating yourself. The final straw for me was looking at how much money I had paid into Granton Marketing (Ds-max) and looking at what I had to show for it.

Over the last 2 and a half years I had paid in over $800,000.00 to Granton Marketing, but yet I have nothing. This Business Is A SCAM. When you really think about it, all you are is a glorified retail manager, sure you own your business, sure you don't have a boss, sure you make a $100,000.00 a year, BULLSHIT

1. You dont own any business, If it was a real business you could sell it, unfortunatly you can't. The reason you are incorporated is to seperate you from Ds-max, If something goes wrong you are responsible for it.

2. You dont have a boss, If you didn't have a boss you could do whatever you wanted, you could take a vacation, or something like that, but you cant because they can shut you down, with no product what business are you the boss of.

3. You make a $100,000.00 a year, is that gross or net ? Well let me tell you with all the expenses of running business, I don't know more than five owners who have made close to that. Don't get me wrong there are some owners that I know who have made money, But the mass majority do not.

So to conclude my rant, thank you for telling it how it is, this business is a scam!!!
If anyone is contemplating Ds-max as a vehicle for finacial independance, you should continue looking.

To the people who still work there, I give you all the respect in the world, The reason I do,is because you probably do not realize what you are doing to people or what really awaits you as you progress within the business. Take it from me, If you enjoy what you are doing leave on a positive note and take that experience and move on.

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#1 UPDATE EX-employee responds

You couldn't be more right!!! Ds-max is a scam.

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, June 08, 2003

I am so glad to have read your report because you are exactly right. Ds-max is a scam.

I had worked for Ds-max for the last 4 and a half years. Going through the field I had my car repoed, credit distroyed, lived with 15 people in a 2 bedroom apartment, (because nobody made money) and lost the only girl I ever loved for this so called oppurtunity called Ds-max.

Throughout my time with Ds-max I had trained and promoted 5 Asst.Managers which 3 became owners, I was given President Awards / Top Ownership awards/ jewlery/ and loads of recognition for my achievements, but all along I never made the money I was so lured into in the begining.

Ds-max is a promoting business, but there is a difference between promoting and flat out lieing to people. I would motivate people to work hard knowing they had no chance of ever making it in this business, but this is how the business works, so I would do what so many other managers do I would stroke their egos, Just like Larry Tienbalm said, "We are not in the sales business, we are in the business of building egos". Yeah but to what extent.

I just couldn't stand misleading people anymore, Other owners would call me complaining they were not making money, and I would always tell them " don't worry you will", knowing all along I hadn't seen a dime. These people were my friends but I just gave them the standard answer," don't worry, all you got to do is keep working you'll catch your wave," BULLSHIT.

The only wave you catch is the wave of brainwashed crap they tell you to keep motivating yourself. The final straw for me was looking at how much money I had paid into Granton Marketing (Ds-max) and looking at what I had to show for it.

Over the last 2 and a half years I had paid in over $800,000.00 to Granton Marketing, but yet I have nothing. This Business Is A SCAM. When you really think about it, all you are is a glorified retail manager, sure you own your business, sure you don't have a boss, sure you make a $100,000.00 a year, BULLSHIT

1. You dont own any business, If it was a real business you could sell it, unfortunatly you can't. The reason you are incorporated is to seperate you from Ds-max, If something goes wrong you are responsible for it.

2. You dont have a boss, If you didn't have a boss you could do whatever you wanted, you could take a vacation, or something like that, but you cant because they can shut you down, with no product what business are you the boss of.

3. You make a $100,000.00 a year, is that gross or net ? Well let me tell you with all the expenses of running business, I don't know more than five owners who have made close to that. Don't get me wrong there are some owners that I know who have made money, But the mass majority do not.

So to conclude my rant, thank you for telling it how it is, this business is a scam!!!
If anyone is contemplating Ds-max as a vehicle for finacial independance, you should continue looking.

To the people who still work there, I give you all the respect in the world, The reason I do,is because you probably do not realize what you are doing to people or what really awaits you as you progress within the business. Take it from me, If you enjoy what you are doing leave on a positive note and take that experience and move on.

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