Empire Marketing Systems, EMS, Jeff Albright, EMS Ripoff, Sales Rep Jeff Albright Promised the Moon, EMS Delivered Nothing, No Dropshipping, Coaching Program Not As Promised Santa Clara (St George) Utah

To make a long story short, Money was finally deposited in an account on which a $2,000 check and a $1,000 check were written on with insufficient funds. Had filed a report with various law enforcement agencies who were ready to file criminal charges if money was not deposited.

I was able to cash the checks this morning, so criminal charges will not be filed on the checks. Remember all the hoopla over sending me the checks and there was not enough money in the account to cover both checks. Enough Said.

Thanks to all you wonderful people out there who read these postings and cause these companies to feel the pressure. Thanks to the website owner for providing this forum for even the company to express their views, which they have. Thanks to
Reid for his much-needed insight. Thanks to the various law enforcement people and their support.

I now have a lot of friends out there who I don't even know and I sure appreciate you. Life is good and hopefully we can help each other to make it better.

Thanks so much.

Hi Lenord,
First off let me tell you how sorry I am about your situation. As a business man with an internet business I read as much as I can about how others deal with problems. It is my way of finding out how I can better serve my own customers.

At any rate, having run the tracking number here is the information I recieved.

Track & Confirm

Shipment Details

You entered 0103 8555 7492 5241 6654

Your item was delivered at 2:09 pm on April 09, 2004 in OAKLEY, ID 83346.

Here is what happened earlier:
ARRIVAL AT UNIT, April 09, 2004, 9:00 am, OAKLEY, ID 83346
ELECTRONIC SHIPPING INFO RECEIVED, April 06, 2004

Checking the date stamp of you last entry I find it to be 4/10/2004 which is a full day after your package was delivered. Of course I have no idea what time you check your mail nor do I need too. I simply wanted to respond and let you know that it had been delivered.

Hi Lenord,
First off let me tell you how sorry I am about your situation. As a business man with an internet business I read as much as I can about how others deal with problems. It is my way of finding out how I can better serve my own customers.

At any rate, having run the tracking number here is the information I recieved.

Track & Confirm

Shipment Details

You entered 0103 8555 7492 5241 6654

Your item was delivered at 2:09 pm on April 09, 2004 in OAKLEY, ID 83346.

Here is what happened earlier:
ARRIVAL AT UNIT, April 09, 2004, 9:00 am, OAKLEY, ID 83346
ELECTRONIC SHIPPING INFO RECEIVED, April 06, 2004

Checking the date stamp of you last entry I find it to be 4/10/2004 which is a full day after your package was delivered. Of course I have no idea what time you check your mail nor do I need too. I simply wanted to respond and let you know that it had been delivered.

Hi Lenord,
First off let me tell you how sorry I am about your situation. As a business man with an internet business I read as much as I can about how others deal with problems. It is my way of finding out how I can better serve my own customers.

At any rate, having run the tracking number here is the information I recieved.

Track & Confirm

Shipment Details

You entered 0103 8555 7492 5241 6654

Your item was delivered at 2:09 pm on April 09, 2004 in OAKLEY, ID 83346.

Here is what happened earlier:
ARRIVAL AT UNIT, April 09, 2004, 9:00 am, OAKLEY, ID 83346
ELECTRONIC SHIPPING INFO RECEIVED, April 06, 2004

Checking the date stamp of you last entry I find it to be 4/10/2004 which is a full day after your package was delivered. Of course I have no idea what time you check your mail nor do I need too. I simply wanted to respond and let you know that it had been delivered.

Hey everyone, I hope this message finds everyone reading it in good spirit and health. To leanord and everyone else, testimonials mean absolutely nothing and no consumer should ever base their decision to buy a product or service because of them. Also, no amount of testimonials makes a company legitimate. Testimonials are just like anything other marketing ploys and sales tools often used to sort of trick consumers to believe that a company is legitimate. What testimonials always fails to acknowledge and is the most imprtant thing, is how many people actually fail as opposed to succeeds. TESTIMONIALS ARE JUST GLAMORIZED THANK YOU LETTERS!! If a company is legitimate, it would be totally willing and able to furnish side by side comparissons and all other vital statistics as per requested by consumers. Just say no to all moneymaking programs that are not willing to do so, for they have already shown you they have much to hide. Until next time, take care, Aloha & God Bless.

P.S. Any and all media companies that might be interested in my story regarding the fraudsters responsible for selling me John Beck's Amazing profits, please contact me through this website.

Thank you, Reid -- you are absolutely right. Sorry about your situation. Sounds worse than these guys and I really didn't think that was possible. These guys have been playing ring around the rosie with me and I could see we weren't really getting anywhere.

So I took the next step and filed reports with the proper government agencies, and one of them responded very quickly and very efficiently. I normally don't have much use for agencies, but this one -- the Utah Attorney General's Office Cybercrime Task Force does not beat around the bush when they see something that needs to be done. I have nothing but praise for these guys and already have suggested contact with them for others involved in disputing with EMS. Kudos are in order for this good office and the man who runs it. I owe them greatly.

EMS promised a refund and said it was overnight and in my post office. Typically they were full of it. But the coaching office -- Perforum Inc, and more specifically Steve, came through for me. They have never done to me what EMS has done time and time again --- constant promises and lies and no action.

Today my wife picked up a letter at the post office from Steve with a check for $2,000. He had sent me an email this morning saying he had mailed out the check on Tuesday and he would also mail out an additional check for $1,000 to make up the balance EMS owed me. Based on the fact that we received the one check today from Steve, I think he is a man of his word and we can expect the other check probably Monday or Tuesday.

Even though Perforum does the coaching for EMS, I think you can see the difference in the caliber of men at Perforum compared to the caliber of men ( and ladies I might add ) at EMS. Obviously
Steve is of a much higher character level than certain other people involved.

I am not convinced of Perforum's ability to coach, but I am convinced of Steve's character, and I think that is very commendable. The one coach I had one session with, Barry, seemed to be of a similar character. I do appreciate the kind of people they are.

If EMS concentrated on providing good service, products, and coaching as much as they concentrate on screwing their clients, they would be successful beyond their wildest dreams. Instead they pursue this stupid avenue of Ripping people Off and doing everything they can to accomplish this task. A very sad commentary on a company that could really be good if that was their objective.

I do acknowledge thus far that I have in possession a check in the amount of $2,000 pending actual funds in the account. And I do acknowledge Steve's hand in this.

What these people fail to realize is that this money is mine -- not theirs. It is not a payoff for me to retract my statements about their organization on this website and in any other reports. I absolutely do not retract any of my statements -- it is merely an acknowledgement of partial payment of my money owed to me.

I do not believe they could pay me enough to retract anything. My positive words about Perforum are not a retraction for EMS --- Empire Marketing Systems.

Again a long post, but please bear with me. EMS had no testimonials on their website and promised that they would have some forthcoming. Anyone can buy and or concoct testimonials. There are many testimonial mills out there. How do you spot phony testimonials?

Well, we will have some testimonials for you right away. If that is true, why have they not been posted already?
Are the figures quoted within reason or are they outlandish and deceptive?
Are the full names and contact information posted so they can be contacted for verification?
Does the company doing the posting of the testimonials have a background of honesty and integrity?

The reason I pose these questions is because EMS has posted testimonials -- I believe 3 of them -- I noticed them tonight. I am not going to go through each testimony and see how it stacks up to these criteria. I believe anyone who reads them will be able to determine their authenticity. I won't say one way or the other. Also keep in mind that EMS is not the one who gives pointers to their clints once they have the money. That is left up to Perforum and anyone who may contact that person.

I give thanks to the good Lord for all blessings I have received from Him time to time. I acknowledge His hand in all things. May His blessings be with all of you and may you be blessed with the wisdom to avoid the problems that some of us have encountered with a company such as the one in this report.

Thanks everyone for your support. With your help, may many more be able to avoid the problems associated with doing business with similar companies.

Hey everyone, I hope this message finds each and every one of you out there in good health and in happy spirits. I just needed to get a few things off my chest regarding the ridiculous rebuttals posted on this rip-off report. Once again, we have a manager, supervisor, or whomever the jack a*s is trying to justify not resolving any and all consumer complaints. What did he say? "Not one company can claim to be perfect or claim to make 100% of their clients happier than clams". Nothing more than a sorry excuse!! It is true that all companies receive complaints, how the complaints are handled is what separates good businesses from rotton ones. Any and all LEGITIMATE companies that have nothing to hide and are willing to PROVE themselves, would have no problem coming to a public forum such as this one and resolve any and all complaints the best they possibly can, instead of making excuses and trying to justify the reason for not doing so. Any and all FRAUDULENT companies that have much to hide and are NOT willing to come foward to PROVE themselves, run, hide under rocks, make excuses and continue to look for other venues to screw people. Then jack a*s goes on to insinuate that the reports filed on this website against crooked companies "are only based on opinions". SORRY BRO, NOT TRUE AT ALL!! The reports that are filed on this website are actual happenings. No one in their right mind would search out a website and post a false report against a company for no reason. Even IF someone did, it is the responsibility of an adult to come foward, acknowlege it, and resolve it to the best satisfaction of the consumer. Not come foward in an angry and unprofessional manner, further insult the consumer and pass the blame for failure on the consumer. I have been ripped off by a similar company selling a very similar program. "MENTORING". My experience is a little different in that it involves real estate. I can tell the whole world for I have encountered a really devastating experience, that telephone "mentoring" of any kind does not and will never exist. If anyone feels they would like to challenge this statement, I invite them to do so. These ridiculous scams must be stopped, for they are no different than envelope stuffing is. We must force companies that sell garbage to innocent people to come foward, prove to the consumers that their program really works and start backing up their claims with refunds. As it stands now, companies are selling their programs using very deceptive and misleading PAID infomercials, sales pitches, sometimes fraudulent claims, and NO REFUNDS. Yes you me right, NO REFUNDS. There is a perfectly good explanation why. Once you get conned into the program, realize you have been taken for a ride and decide to dispute the fraudulent service, you'll also find out how difficult to near impossible it is to get a refund. Companies that sell "mentoring" are really only structuring all of their transactions in their favor by taking advantage of consumers ignorance of crdit card rules, regulations, policies and procedures. Again, notice how painfully difficult it was for the gentlman to get a refund? About the threats, I too have been threatened by this dude named Mike Evans who works with the thugs responsible for selling me the fraudulent John Beck "mentoring" course. Since when did threatening consumers become part of business dealings? DOES THIS SOUND LIKE THE TYPE OF BUSINESS YOU WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH? I am presently in a credit card dispute battle with the white collar mafia selling bogus and non-existing "mentoring" and so far they have been unable to furnish anything even partially relevant to counter my dispute. So what do they do? They go out on a limb and prove everthing that I have said about these progarams being traps. They are now desperately trying to rob me using every avenue possible. Some of the ridiculous things they have submitted that have absolutely nothing to do with the reason for me disputing their bogus service are receipts, contracts, etc,etc. I HAVE NEVER DENIED ENROLLING IN THEIR PROGRAM. The fact that any company would drag a dispute out this long, continue to submit ridiculous items as counters, all which have nothing to do with someones dispute and actually have them pass as legitimate counters, only proves to the world that they are desperately trying to rob me through some kind of tecnicallity or is hoping that I someday bow out of the dispute. Niether of this is happening!! I am going to continue exercizing my constitutional rights, by posting rebuttals and updating my report as much as I possibly can and until the day I die. It is always and has always been the responsibilty of companies to stand behind their products and services. I am glad that this company has resolved this complaint, but it is only one and notice how much crap this gentlemen had to go through in order to get it. DOES THIS SOUND LIKE THE TYPE OF BUSINESS YOU WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH? Nowadays too many companies are sooo sue happy and would like nothing better than to drag a few people behind closed doors and out liar, I mean out lawyer them. The companies that consumers must really look out for are ones which are not willing to come to a public forum, like this one and address all the consumers they know they have wronged while at the same time back up their claims. I have presently enrolled in a REAL real estate course which prepares all students for the state exam. I start attending in mid may. After seeing my text book and what real estate entails (state laws, property management, sub leasing, etc, etc, I am now a thousand times more convinced that NO ONE, especially a beginner could learn all the pertinent principles and practices that govern real estate transactions in only ten telephone sessions, all which lasts on average no more than 10-15 minutes each. So why do these companies often prey on beginners??? Why isn't EVERONE in their company doing it themselves??? Why don't they offer refunds??? If everyone is already ranting and raving about their program, why is it necessary to spend millions of dollars to shoot an infomercial??? Why are the higher ups in these companies so unwilling to come in the public eye and defend their company's claims, by posting REAL rebuttals that are of resolved complaints and not fake rebuttals where a shill comes foward and posts nothing but sorry excuses??? I could go on forever but having to constatly write about crooked companies that are not willing to come foward and post REAL rebuttals can get pretty monotonous and boring after awhile. I think I speak for everyone when I say; FORGET INFOMERCIALS!! The only thing that matters and is a TRUE test to determine wheter a company is legitimate or flat out fraudulent is their willingness and eagerness to stand behind their claims and have no problem coming to a public forum and rectifying any and all wrongdoings. I am really happy to see at least one consumer satisfied here, even though he nearly had his head taken off by someone who is totally unprofessional. Until next time, take care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless each and every one of you.

P.S. When you have time be sure to read my report on the fraudsters that sold me the John Beck Free & Clear and Amazing Profit programs. This is garbage!! They are still trying to jack me till this day. Any and all media companies that might be interested in this story, please contact me through this website. I would very much love to face off with anyone from one of these companies in a public setting.

You have received your package, news flash it's at the post office.

Here is the tracking number UPSP ( Post Office ) 01038555749252416654 anyone reading this can also go look it up and see that EMS did take care of him and continues to work with him, even when he is too busy complaining to go get his check.

I did follow your instructions and looked up the tracking number at the UPSP website. According to the website:

Track & Confirm

Current Status


You entered 0103 8555 7492 5241 6654

The U.S. Postal Service was electronically notified by the shipper or shipping partner on April 06, 2004 to expect your package for mailing. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please check again later

Maybe someone smarter than me needs to explain why this does not say anything about a package arriving in my post office, let alone having been shipped. Could it be that good old reliable EMS -- that stellar company who would never ever ever lead anyone astray -- are they just confused or are they just flat out being the ripoff artists that they have been up till now? I certainly don't know. If it walks like and talks like a duck, maybe it is a duck ..........

I have been patiently waiting and their own tracking number says there is nothing there, unless I am reading it wrong? Obviously these guys are doing business as usual.

You have received your package, news flash it's at the post office.

Looks to me like the news flash is that EMS has lost it! They really have a problem. I'm sure the Utah Attorney General's office will be interested in this one. I am keeping them posted.

Interesting -- all I have to do is keep these guys talking and they do a better job than I ever could in showing their true colors. Not a pretty sight! Very unprofessional and very much RipOff. Thanks again to RipOffReport.com in helping me to expose this outfit for what it is. Ever since I cancelled the contract, these guys have acted like this. Impressive, huh!

Have a great day all you honest people out there

P.S. I will be happy to report when and if that overnight check ever gets here. The lady at the post office is probably getting tired of me asking every day for it. I told her that it is just like the check is in the mail. I do know the post office is not that slow. And I also know that EMS is not that honest. Obviously!

Hi Leonard,

Since you lack the ability to email the company in question, and ask them like an adult when your package might have been sent, here is the inside information.

You have received your package, news flash it's at the post office.

Here is the tracking number UPSP ( Post Office ) 01038555749252416654 anyone reading this can also go look it up and see that EMS did take care of him and continues to work with him, even when he is too busy complaining to go get his check.

Many best wishes and may your future business transactions be filled with more success and less complaining.

Unnamed employee of EMS -- Empire Marketing Systems -- fails to mention the reason for the attitude change for EMS regarding my situation. Without going into too much detail, EMS was contacted by the Utah Attorney General's Office of Cybercrime. EMS said they were refunding my money. This employee says part of it and as yet I have received none of it.

I received an email from the Attorney General's Office today asking me to keep them informed as to what is going on and when I have been paid what EMS owes me. My response was nothing yet and I will keep them informed.

I don't know about you, but I do appreciate it when someone of this stature intervenes to help right a wrong.

I feel sorry for all the other people who have become involved with these guys. That unnamed employee was right --- I have put a lot of effort into this report and in dealing with these guys. Useless effort that would have been much better channelled into other things such as what I thought these guys offered in the first place --- a good mentoring program and good products and good service.

Unfortunately all are lacking and further effort in that direction would be a total waste of time. How stupid do they think I am -- well, I guess pretty stupid -- I did ask for that!

But I can put my money to better use than let these guys keep it. They certainly didn't do anything to earn it!

Perhaps the check is in the mail, I don't know. It has been a big fight and at least I have right and might on my side.

I really give big kudos to the website owner here. His service to us who have and are being ripped off is invaluable. This is not an opinion site as EMS unnamed employee would have us believe. Most of the facts have been presented here and the public I feel has been served. My hat is off to this website. It is great! Thanks so much. I will keep you posted as to further developments.

If more people who have been shafted by this company would file their reports here instead of being intimidated by their threat of lawyers, and especially now that the Utah Attorney General's Office is watching --- well we will see what happens.

Thanks So Much!

Hey everyone, I hope that this message finds each and every one of you in good spirit and health. I am really glad to hear that this problem has been resolved. This is one consumer complaint that definitely needed to be resolved and hopefuly this company will continue to resolve each and every complaint they receive, big or small, and don't just resort to excuses like many other companies do. Ever heard this? "We have an average amount of complaints for a company our size". WHAT A CROCK!! There's no excuse for ANY company to avoid and ignore ANY complaints, especially when the problem that occured is their fault in that they sold a fraudulent and non- existing program under false pretences, which many companies that sell "mentoring" seem to do. The only rebuttals that matter in any way shape or form are those from consumers whose complaints have been resolved. I am almost possitive that this is really the only thing that most consumers are concerned about. It's great to see companies that have nothing to hide are willing to come foward, admit fault and rectify any wrongs. WARNING TO ALL: Don't ever enroll in any kind of "mentoring" until you have received the companies full return policy in writting and signed by the manager or owner. Legitimate companies that have nothing to hide would have no problem mailing this out to you. Also, legitimate companies do not need to use high pressure sales tactics to sell their program, by creating a false sense of urgency, for if their offer is really as good as they claim, it can wait a day or two. I am presently in a dispute battle with the white collar mafia that's responsible for selling me the bogus John Beck Amazing Profits. This company knows they have wronged me along with many others, but due to tremendous arrogance won't come foward to admit their wrong and PROVE their companies legitimacy. They are using stall tactics by constantly submitting ridiculous items to my dispute and actually having them pass as legitimate counters, when the items really have nothing to do with the reason for my disputing the charge. Items such as contracts, invoices, etc, etc, all of which proves that I have enrolled. But guess what?? I'VE NOT ONCE DENIED ENROLLING IN THEIR NON-EXISTENT AND FRAUDULENT "MENTORING" PROGRAM!! For them to proceed in the dispute battle with me for this long only proves to the entire world that they are desperately searching for a way to get me on some kind of technicality (hidden fine print). These thugs can wipe their asses with any of these fraudulent items, because it was they that breeched the agreement by being fully unwilling and unable to live up to any of their fraudulent claims and for not rendering any of the services promised while holding up their end of the agreement. As if all this wasn't bad enough these fraudsters are desperately trying to make me out to be the bad guy. THIS PROGRAM ALONG WITH MANY OTHERS ARE JUST TRAPS!! SCAM!! Until next time, take care cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii & God Bless.

When you have the time be sure to read my entire story on the companies responsible for selling John Beck's Amazing Profits. Any and all media companies that would be interested in airing my story free of charge, please contact me through the EDitor@badbusinessbureau.com

Leonard Mullen has received most of his investment back as of April 6, 2004.

EMS strived to help him in any way possible to be successful, as we do with all of our clients. Out of the hundreds we have sold the same type of program to, as consumers you have to expect a few will not be successful or be happy with it.

As with other companies like WalMart and Sears, not everyone is satisfied and sometimes you cannot make the small or big problems work out to all parties satisfaction.

If Mr Mullen has poured as much effort into his business as he did into this column he might have had different results.

EMS still strives to help our clients be successful, we have many successful people aboard our program, and this web-site although filled with information is just opinion based, a gossip mill so to speak and is not actual recorded facts.

As a successful company EMS chooses now to dedicate our time and efforts on helping the clients who allow us to show them how to be successful and not to play the game on this web-site that Leonard seems so happy to play.

We wish him all the luck in the future and hope that anyone reading this will be able to make decisions based on a true rating from a business based web-site like the BBB.

Leonard Mullen has received most of his investment back as of April 6, 2004.

EMS strived to help him in any way possible to be successful, as we do with all of our clients. Out of the hundreds we have sold the same type of program to, as consumers you have to expect a few will not be successful or be happy with it.

As with other companies like WalMart and Sears, not everyone is satisfied and sometimes you cannot make the small or big problems work out to all parties satisfaction.

If Mr Mullen has poured as much effort into his business as he did into this column he might have had different results.

EMS still strives to help our clients be successful, we have many successful people aboard our program, and this web-site although filled with information is just opinion based, a gossip mill so to speak and is not actual recorded facts.

As a successful company EMS chooses now to dedicate our time and efforts on helping the clients who allow us to show them how to be successful and not to play the game on this web-site that Leonard seems so happy to play.

We wish him all the luck in the future and hope that anyone reading this will be able to make decisions based on a true rating from a business based web-site like the BBB.

There is one true statement these people said, "Some statements are true to a point,...." Notice how carefully these guys word things. My statements are all true all the way to the point. They know it, but certainly don't want the public to know that. These guys aren't stupid enough to admit that.

If I were in their shoes, I would probably say the same things -- honesty certainly seems not to be a problem-- It is unfortunately lacking in this company.

Their stories seem to change a little each time they refer to them. Such as the digital camera. Before this last post of theirs, They definitely sent the camera and I got it. Now it has changed to I refused it because I already had one. What they don't say is that they never sent it and that I was told it was on backorder.

Some people adjust the facts to how it fits them better.

According to EMS, they have many successful clients. Why is it then that their are no success stories on their website when you click on that part of their website. And of course they kind of admitted that and certainly are going to get some up as quickly as possible. Well, good for them. Unfortunately none so far.

I wish EMS was what they claim to be. I wish their program was a good program. But I am sorry to report that it is not at all all that they claim. Why would I go through all this? I am tired -- it is 2:30 in the morning and I really need the sleep. I have a few friends who have experienced the same thing with EMS as I have. I feel for them. I'll survive just fine. And I hope they do, too. If nothing else, please don't accept what people say when they call you on the phone and make all kinds of promises that sound so good --- especially if they want your hardearned money for it! Check them out. Ask for references. Some of these people will tell you anything just to get your money, and afterward say "we didn't make you do it or twist your arm or whatever" They just will not let you out or give you back your money.

Are you willing to take that chance? I made the mistake of believing these guys without checking them out. So, I am paying for that now. Please don't do the same whether it is with this company or any other company.

P. S. Because I did not address some of the things EMS brought up in their response, does not mean I accept them. I am tired and just don't want to waste so much time playing their games.
Good luck to you and don't get bit by one of those scammers!
Thanks so much for reading my report. Any of you have any good ideas on how to deal with these guys, I am always open to suggestions. Thanks again.

Leonard Mullen who wrote this report fails to mention what we do, only how he feels, and what he perceives to be the truth. Some statements are true to a point, based on how you interpret it. Not one company can claim to be perfect or claim to make 100% of their clients happier than clams.
This web site although information based is only based on opinions, nothing you see or read here is factual. EMS is more than willing to provide facts on our company, and the many successful clients who work their programs, the same program Leonard is critisizing. Anyone reading this can decide for themselves and ask about our success program and read satisfied clients experiences, all on the program Leonard is saying is inferior.
Leonard is failing to mention that he was asked on numerous occasions before the program was even started, if this was something he wanted to be in, something he wanted us EMS to help him with, we as a company tried to the best of our abilities to give him what he asked for.
We sent him a contract to look over and sign, we gave him three days to go over his decision to come aboard and make sure he was on board to start his own business.

Leonard signed the contract and sent it back to us via US Mail, on his own without any contact from us that he should do so.

No one in our company forced him to sign the contract or to go ahead with the program, any smooth talking he claims our representative used on him was not being used in his own home, when he signed the contract and sent it back. No one called him and badgered him to send it back.
Leonard is also neglecting to mention he had no complaints about our office, or our coaching department until after he had taken not ONE but TWO coaching sessions, also he didn't start complaining about EMS until after he had recieved some materials, which he claims he never recieved, the materials he stated as being from the coaching department, and after talking to his daughter and based on her information, figured were inferior, and stated in an email to us, that it was the same coaching department she used.
All complaints about his program can be fixed, he refuses to help us help him, instead even after signing his contract and getting started will not work his program or allow EMS to assit him in any way.

He has decided that as his daughter loses money, on her business that must be proof he would also be unsuccessful.

Now most people know you have to work the business in order to make money, you can't expect coaches to make it work, no-one promised him that. He was never told he wouldn't have to dedicate himself to his business, his daughter's situation has nothing to do with his success or how EMS does business.

In an email he stated that he was to recieve a digital camera and when we made sure that it was sent out immediately, he refused it stating that he already had one.

Here is a consumer who will ask for what he wants and then refuse to acknowledge that the company is helping them.

He then asked us to deduct what we had already spent on his program and give him a refund for the difference, we gladly did that but the amount left over was not to his liking. Failing to acknowledge that we get him started on his program immediately, money out of our company's pocket being replaced with his investment which we don't receive until 3 days after his enrollment date.

Time and time again we have tried to work with him, even at the risk of more money being spent out of our pockets so he could be successful at his business.

Leonard refuses to work with us, or to work his program stating problems we can and are willing to fix, we can only hope he will be successful in any future ventures and only wish him the best.
Anyone wanting true information about EMS can look us up at our website, which later next week will have a full link to our success stories.

Immediately after I filed this report, EMS sent me a threatening email:


Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:07:16 -0700

Leonard,

I have spoken to both owners on your behalf, being you will only speak with us about this over email I will put it down here.

(1 You received all the products and information from our fullfillment
office, including a digital camera, the owner sent out to you personally.

(2 We have never charged any of your credit cards for the amount of $ 3,000.00 your cards were authorized for that amount but the only charge
we have made has been in the amount of $ 1,000.00. If you have proof of any other charges from your CC company we would be very interested in seeing those.

(3 We have learned you have put us on the web-site Rip off Report stating we frauded you for $ 3,000.00 putting that on a public record, without
proof of funds being taken from you, is defamation of character, the owner wants
me to express to you that you will have 24 hours to have that removed and retraction on that particular web site or you will be recieving a call fromour lawyers.

(4 You would have needed to send all products, papers etc to the coaching office not EMS in order to dispute your program. Which you never did you can send them now however in the condition in which they were sent out to you.
Perforum Attn: Steve Bullpitt
675 N 1890 W
Unit 45B
Provo UT, 84601
If you have any questions please let us know.
EMS Inc.
Financial Department

----- Original Message -----
From: "leonard mullen"
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:51 AM
Subject: telephone calls


> I don't respond to telephone calls from your kind of
> people, because I have no way of proving what you
> said. An e-mail is sufficient.
>
> Leonard Mullen
>
> P.S. When shall I expect my money back?
>


I responded with the following email


To: "EMS"




You people have no shame whatsoever! I am totally
surprised by all the lies you tell. I guess I
shouldn't be seeing as how you have told me enough.

I have received zero product from you -- certainly not the digital camera you spoke of. You told me it was on backorder. I do not need a digital camera. I already have one that is probably better than what yours is. Why would I need another one. You did not send me one.

I have 3 credit cards with a total deduction of $3,000 from your company. The credit card companies have acknowledged it and are investigating. Real the contract you signed with me. It states exactly the credit card numbers and how much was taken out of each account.

Of course you are on the RipOff report. My guess is there probably are a lot more just like me who could put their story there, too. There is no defamation of character. That is the way you people are -- I am very sorry to say. I have done everything in my power to work it out with you and all you do is threaten me and tell more lies.

Leonard Mullen


What more can I say? I sure don't understand some people. Something so obvious as their charges on my credit cards? Don't they realize that records are kept. That one is not my word against them. That is in black and white.

So you, my patient reader, would you hurry up and part with your hardearned thousands to this company? Thanks for being there. I realize that most outfits are good and on the up and up, but, I guess that is the reason for the Rip Off Report -- Right! Some just aren't.

I hate to heap hot coals on this thing, but if any of you have any ideas of other places I can post, I sure would appreciate all the help I can get. Apparently these guys want all the advertising they can get. Three thousand dollars should go quite a ways, don't you think!

Immediately after I filed this report, EMS sent me a threatening email:


Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:07:16 -0700

Leonard,

I have spoken to both owners on your behalf, being you will only speak with us about this over email I will put it down here.

(1 You received all the products and information from our fullfillment
office, including a digital camera, the owner sent out to you personally.

(2 We have never charged any of your credit cards for the amount of $ 3,000.00 your cards were authorized for that amount but the only charge
we have made has been in the amount of $ 1,000.00. If you have proof of any other charges from your CC company we would be very interested in seeing those.

(3 We have learned you have put us on the web-site Rip off Report stating we frauded you for $ 3,000.00 putting that on a public record, without
proof of funds being taken from you, is defamation of character, the owner wants
me to express to you that you will have 24 hours to have that removed and retraction on that particular web site or you will be recieving a call fromour lawyers.

(4 You would have needed to send all products, papers etc to the coaching office not EMS in order to dispute your program. Which you never did you can send them now however in the condition in which they were sent out to you.
Perforum Attn: Steve Bullpitt
675 N 1890 W
Unit 45B
Provo UT, 84601
If you have any questions please let us know.
EMS Inc.
Financial Department

----- Original Message -----
From: "leonard mullen"
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:51 AM
Subject: telephone calls


> I don't respond to telephone calls from your kind of
> people, because I have no way of proving what you
> said. An e-mail is sufficient.
>
> Leonard Mullen
>
> P.S. When shall I expect my money back?
>


I responded with the following email


To: "EMS"




You people have no shame whatsoever! I am totally
surprised by all the lies you tell. I guess I
shouldn't be seeing as how you have told me enough.

I have received zero product from you -- certainly not the digital camera you spoke of. You told me it was on backorder. I do not need a digital camera. I already have one that is probably better than what yours is. Why would I need another one. You did not send me one.

I have 3 credit cards with a total deduction of $3,000 from your company. The credit card companies have acknowledged it and are investigating. Real the contract you signed with me. It states exactly the credit card numbers and how much was taken out of each account.

Of course you are on the RipOff report. My guess is there probably are a lot more just like me who could put their story there, too. There is no defamation of character. That is the way you people are -- I am very sorry to say. I have done everything in my power to work it out with you and all you do is threaten me and tell more lies.

Leonard Mullen


What more can I say? I sure don't understand some people. Something so obvious as their charges on my credit cards? Don't they realize that records are kept. That one is not my word against them. That is in black and white.

So you, my patient reader, would you hurry up and part with your hardearned thousands to this company? Thanks for being there. I realize that most outfits are good and on the up and up, but, I guess that is the reason for the Rip Off Report -- Right! Some just aren't.

I hate to heap hot coals on this thing, but if any of you have any ideas of other places I can post, I sure would appreciate all the help I can get. Apparently these guys want all the advertising they can get. Three thousand dollars should go quite a ways, don't you think!

Immediately after I filed this report, EMS sent me a threatening email:


Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:07:16 -0700

Leonard,

I have spoken to both owners on your behalf, being you will only speak with us about this over email I will put it down here.

(1 You received all the products and information from our fullfillment
office, including a digital camera, the owner sent out to you personally.

(2 We have never charged any of your credit cards for the amount of $ 3,000.00 your cards were authorized for that amount but the only charge
we have made has been in the amount of $ 1,000.00. If you have proof of any other charges from your CC company we would be very interested in seeing those.

(3 We have learned you have put us on the web-site Rip off Report stating we frauded you for $ 3,000.00 putting that on a public record, without
proof of funds being taken from you, is defamation of character, the owner wants
me to express to you that you will have 24 hours to have that removed and retraction on that particular web site or you will be recieving a call fromour lawyers.

(4 You would have needed to send all products, papers etc to the coaching office not EMS in order to dispute your program. Which you never did you can send them now however in the condition in which they were sent out to you.
Perforum Attn: Steve Bullpitt
675 N 1890 W
Unit 45B
Provo UT, 84601
If you have any questions please let us know.
EMS Inc.
Financial Department

----- Original Message -----
From: "leonard mullen"
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:51 AM
Subject: telephone calls


> I don't respond to telephone calls from your kind of
> people, because I have no way of proving what you
> said. An e-mail is sufficient.
>
> Leonard Mullen
>
> P.S. When shall I expect my money back?
>


I responded with the following email


To: "EMS"




You people have no shame whatsoever! I am totally
surprised by all the lies you tell. I guess I
shouldn't be seeing as how you have told me enough.

I have received zero product from you -- certainly not the digital camera you spoke of. You told me it was on backorder. I do not need a digital camera. I already have one that is probably better than what yours is. Why would I need another one. You did not send me one.

I have 3 credit cards with a total deduction of $3,000 from your company. The credit card companies have acknowledged it and are investigating. Real the contract you signed with me. It states exactly the credit card numbers and how much was taken out of each account.

Of course you are on the RipOff report. My guess is there probably are a lot more just like me who could put their story there, too. There is no defamation of character. That is the way you people are -- I am very sorry to say. I have done everything in my power to work it out with you and all you do is threaten me and tell more lies.

Leonard Mullen


What more can I say? I sure don't understand some people. Something so obvious as their charges on my credit cards? Don't they realize that records are kept. That one is not my word against them. That is in black and white.

So you, my patient reader, would you hurry up and part with your hardearned thousands to this company? Thanks for being there. I realize that most outfits are good and on the up and up, but, I guess that is the reason for the Rip Off Report -- Right! Some just aren't.

I hate to heap hot coals on this thing, but if any of you have any ideas of other places I can post, I sure would appreciate all the help I can get. Apparently these guys want all the advertising they can get. Three thousand dollars should go quite a ways, don't you think!