• Report: #1053161
Complaint Review:

Expect Payment Solutions

  • Submitted: Wed, May 22, 2013
  • Updated: Thu, May 23, 2013

  • Reported By: M.Wehner — Portland Oregon
Expect Payment Solutions
11805 NE 99th Street, Ste 1300 Vancouver, Washington USA

Expect Payment Solutions | Brandon Skinner President & CEO | Derek Garvin COO Mislead, Misrepresented, Trapped & Violated Vancouver Washington

*UPDATE Employee: Derek, A New, Caring, And Honest Owner

*Author of original report: A Victim's Advice ...

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Discrepancies in reporting

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Our practice is a member of PECAA - an organization that represents and supports private practice physicians.  As a member we have access to Vendor Partners affiliated with and endorsed by PECAA.  We had recently been introduced to a few new Partner Vendors, including a merchant processing company.  We make every effort to support PECAA, and with our current contract coming to an end, we wanted to move forward with a change in merchant service providers.

I received a phone call to schedule an appointment with a new merchant service provider shortly after our decision to go ahead with a new PECAA Partnered Vendor.  I thought it was in response to our interest in the PECAA Vendor.  I scheduled the appointment and moved forward.

During our first and second meetings both I and the doctor mentioned his "PECAA Affiliation", our desire to support them, and our trust in him as a result of his PECAA affiliation.  At no time did the sales person query about or disclose that he wasn't who we thought he was.  There were a number of opportunities to do so. 

With our trust in his hands ...

He advised that the older machines (he walked over our machine - VeriFone v510 - and looked at it to confirm that ours was one of the older models that fell into this category) had software that was unable to maintain the re-programing for new PCI compliance and compliance would become an issue.  He stated that the newer machines - VeriFone v570 - were better prepared to meet the updating PCI compliance for many years to come.  I was unaware that machines could be in or out of PCI compliance.  My knowledge  on this was introduced by him, and has expanded as I investigated further into it.  This is information I trusted the industry specialist with.  Mr Stone highly recommended that we 'upgrade' to IP/Ethernet as it was faster and more secure than a phone line connection.  I queried him on this as I had heard in the past that security was an issue with IP types.  He convinced me about the security services they provide to ensure we are protected, also included in the 'all inclusive package'.  He said pin pads were required in order that patrons could use debit (for the keypad) and that they would provide additional security.  I can't pass down additional security, right?  Promised grand savings with his presentation about removing the middle man, and the calculations on his Merchant Analysis sheet.  He even told me - when I asked him very directly and specifically about unapparent/hidden fees above and beyond what he presented on his "Merchant Analysis" sheet, that there would be nothing like that.  I asked "are you sure?" to which he replied that what I saw was all we'd be paying as it was an "all inclusive h*o Package".  I even had him document that on the Merchant Analysis sheet.

Confident in PECAA's endorsement we trustingly signed a contract with them.

A few days later we realized our mistaken identity error.  We called them first thing the following morning to cancel our contract with them.  That was followed by a flurry of phone calls, numerous discussions and again, promises of the best rates, no one can beat them because of their reduced middle man, the best service, security support, etc.  They came by our office to sit with us and spewed a convincing story full of guarantees and promises.  They failed to bring the original contract we trustingly signed under the perception of being a PECAA Preferred Provider to the office - instead advising us they would send a copy asap.  Anyone with integrity would have brought the original contract in good faith.

A couple weeks later we returned from being out of the country, and a First Data Welcome Letter and Lease Terms greeted us from our in-basket.   A 48 month term @ $200.00/month.  Shocker!  We immediately called to ask about it - they informed us that the services were bundled into the lease to take better advantage of Section 179.  I didn't even know such a tax section existed until it was mentioned by these folks.  It was explained to me by them that it was a new tax deduction put out by the government to encourage small businesses to purchase equipment.  I was confused as to whey/how services could be included in an equipment tax deduction.

At this point red flags were waving about my conscience - I began looking into their claims/promises:

- I contacted the lease company:  only the serial numbers of the two machines we received, and two pin pads were the subject of the lease.  The lease company rep very confidently advised that there was nothing more, no services.

- I called SecurityMetrics, the security company both Mr Skinner & Mr Stone quoted as being the service provider for the security of our transactions.  They could not locate any client of theirs with the EPS name, or any client of their that had an affiliation with that name.  I asked to estimate what fees they would charge a company such as ours based on a few parameters of our small business, the type of connection we used, our CC usage/storage policy, etc.  The cost for security was ball-parked at approximately $100/YEAR.  He also advised IP/Ethernet was a higher risk and much easier to use fraudulently - phone lines can not be hacked into.  The security service for IP/Ethernet was more expensive.  In addition he commented on the additional speed the v570 has over the v510 - only a few seconds per transaction.  As a private practice single doctor clinic that emphasizes care on quality, not quantity, we see on average 60 patients per week.  For the Wal-Mars and Macy's who have patrons standing in line-ups to check out, and process thousands of transactions per week, I see some validation those seconds may bring.  However, we process on average one transaction every 20-30 minutes a day.  for the sake of calculation, I will high-ball the time savings per transaction @ 5 seconds each.  5 x 12 transactions saves us 1 minute per day.  Not enough to justify paying $10,000 for an equipment upgrade worth $1,500.

- I review online review - not very promising.

- The first time I looked at their BBB rating it was A- ... it is now B+.  Not a good trend.

Calculating a 48 month lease @ $200/month is significantly different than Security @ $100/yr + Equipment @ $1,500 divided into 48 months.  My math puts that @ $40/month.  That's a 500% profit.  On April 1st we received a letter addressed to "Dear Valued Merchant" ... we are now expected to pay an annual $99 Compliance Service Fee.

Throughout this unpleasant awaking I had made numerous attempts to give them an opportunity to explain exactly what we were paying for.  I got fish-danced around with reflective questions that didn't answer the questions I was asking.  I feel we have been seriously mislead, misrepresented, trapped and violated.

We are seeking a complete non-chargeable release from all contracts & agreements entered into both directly with EPS and to all third parties involved.


This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 05/22/2013 10:24 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/expect-payment-solutions/vancouver-washington-98682/expect-payment-solutions-brandon-skinner-president-ceo-derek-garvin-coo-mislead-mi-1053161. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
1Author 1Consumer 1Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 UPDATE Employee

Derek, A New, Caring, And Honest Owner

AUTHOR: LaPrincesaRubi - ()

Originally, this business was owned by two owners. One of them was kind of unprofessional and not leading by example. In the past couple of months, they have raised their customer service standards, and have fixed a lot of issues. With 0% debit and 1% credit rates, they try to save small businesses hundreds of dollars on their credit and debit card processing. They try not to disturb restaurants during lunch rush and really care about saving businesses money. If you like your current provider, then great, but if you would like a free quote, Expect payment Solutions is the way to go. Also, once you get that free quote, you can always take it to your current provider and negotiate your rates with them as well.

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#2 Author of original report

A Victim's Advice ...

AUTHOR: Michelle - ()

Derek & Friends,

As my feedback and inquires to the details of our contract have repeatedly been directly evaded by the same reflective  questions over and over, I'm getting too dizzy to do the fish dance any further.  No comment.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The best advice i can give to anyone considering a relationship with EPS is:

  • Read and understand the Third Party contract (Agreement?).
  • Read and understand the Equipment Lease Agreement.
  • Request a copy of the 39 page Lease Guide book (something like that).
  • Research the value of the equipment you are being offered.
  • Do not sign anything until you do this - the lease is non-cancelable
  • Or ... Hire a lawyer to review & interpret the contract for you.
  • I encourage you to check out a few other review sites.

I would like to humbly point out that within days of my original post on Yelp.com (it is filtered and there are two review sites for the same business), there were five (5) five-star posts within two days of each other - four on the same date (also filtered). Coincidental? Only speculation I suppose. That said, I've never seen that many five-star posts in a two-day span on other reviews. Just an observation.

-What happened-

Salesman, Brandon, gave presentation (fact). Seemed sound (opinion). Brandon is a very charismatic, optimally superb salesman (fact). We bought into a 48 month lease @ $200/mo., with the option to buy it out at the end of the lease (so not even owning the equipment), and if no notification of intent to buy out, or end lease, lease will continue (fact). With 48 mos. @ $200 = $9,600.00 (fact). The equipment was two merchant terminals & two pin pads (fact). Researching the value of the equipment, I found the most expensive one @ $750.00 @ Staples - and down as low as approx. $250.00 (I'm a skeptic @ that price) (fact). The pin pads I found ranging from $60.00 to $25.00 (fact). Then add in the cost of encrypting/coding the machines to the merchant services provider (such as EPS) my research estimated another $100.00-200.00 ea. (some variances depending on the merchant service provider) Assuming we find a good deal, but avoiding the "it's too-good-to-be-true prices: ($600.00+$50.00+$125.00)x2= $1,550.00. Compare to the $9,600.00 payment and my math shows a profit close to 600%. (fact)  Loan companies would faint if they got that kind of profit. (figure of speach)

On my research, I discovered that for each lease endorsed through EPS's contract, (somehow filtered through other connections along the way) the lease company pays out the merchant provider (EPS), then collects monthly from the vendor (the business) to recover the payout made to the merchant services provider (may not be precise, but I recieved the information from a reliable source - the nice lady @ the leaes company). Nice set-up. EPS gets paid up front, and the monthly merchant CC Processing fees they recieve following that are gravy ... (the "savings" they pitch in their presentations).

This is a vague & simplistic snapshot, & just facts, figures and a personal opinion or two. No name calling or derogatory assaults as it serves no purpose. If you would like addition information, please don't hesitate to contact me.

As of the writing of this post, EPS's BBB rating has continued it's downward slope & has now dropped to a B (fact). They have had 10 complaints filed against them through the BBB within the past 12 months (fact). Compared to other companies within the same field, that is a high amount of complaints (observation). They are currently in communication with our lawyers, and we are now utilizing a reputable merchant services provider we are happy with. :)

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#3 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Discrepancies in reporting

AUTHOR: Derek Garvin - ()

In regards to the report listed, there seem to be a few descrepancies with the story being told.  While I will admit that I was not at the meeting, I will say that I have spent much time with the parties who were from the side of Expect Payment Solutions.  I would never say that another party is lying, however, I don't feel as though this complaint is truly accurate based on what really happened, but rather one-sided to try and prove a point.

It is stated that our sales rep was completely unclear as to the PECCA affiliation as we do not, nor did we ever promote that we were.  An appointment was made with the merchant to discuss their credit card services, that is the extent of it.

In some cases, machines can be deemed non-PCI compliant in which case there are potential dangers for the merchant.  The IP usage was brought up by the merchant who stated to the rep "would it be an option", it makes no difference to us for our services to run via internet or phone line.

If you are so adamant in the fact that you called to cancel, then why did you allow us to come in and set up your equipment and run your processing through us?  We have a guarantee that we will save people money, and we stand behind it when given the proper opportunity to do so, in this case, we were not.  We presented ourselves and our program the same way we do with everyone else, I am not completely sure as to why the sudden change of mind after we had you already set up.  According to your statement, you did all of your homework and your checking, why didn't you look us up immediately if you were so concerned with the PECCA affiliation to verify it?  Why did you say no, then yes, then no, then have us hook you up?  Something doesn't seem to make sense and we feel we are just being used as your scapegoat.  What have you not recieved from our services that you were promised, were we given a fair chance?

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