Firestone Complete Auto Care Store Firestone Firestone did an oil change on Mazda CX7 and when I picked up my vehicle after service and it was billowing balck smoke. Dealer diagnosed damage to turbo charger. Firstone refuses to pay for claim. menomonee falls, Internet

I have a mazda cx7 which had had the turbo TURBO 3 times.    After researching. .. this is a major problem with them and the main reason they have been discontinued in 2011.  No matter what you do with the maintenance,  the turbo will blow.   I obsessively maintained my car, yet the turbo blew in march 2013, March 2014 and now march 2015.  Coincidence? ? I think not!  

Is an engine defect that mazda is aware of and instead of recalling 20,000 automobiles,  they decided to continue to sell them and blame the owner each time!  There is the start to a civil class law suit.    Mazda needs to take responsibility for the suffering they have caused and the all the funds we have spent repairing their P.O.S cars! !!

Doesn't dirty oil sometimes mask problems, like worn seals? Once the old gunk is flushed out and fresh oil in, suddenly such seals betray their leaks? That could explain the issue suddenly manifesting itself the moment the customer drove out of the garage.

I agree with the person who said there are just too many variables here to find out what really happened.
 
Ive learnt that when a system fails to ask if any changes were made to that system before failure. In this case, the OP says the car was fine before the oil change. We know that turbochargers can fail at any time. Lets disregard that for a moment.
 
Any momentary loss of oil pressure to the turbocharger bearings can result in failure of the bearings and oil seals. The oil pressure seats the seals firmly in place. The temperatures involved are extremely high. Lets assume that the oil was drained from the engine. Technician takes coffee break. Comes back and forgets to put oil in engine. Not uncommon. Starts engine. Oil pressure warning light seems slow in going out. Revs engine.
 
Whoops! Forgot to put oil in! Damage is done. Fill it up quickly and return to customer with a nonchalant whistle. Of course, nothing can be proven.
 
OK, crap on me. Im in a good mood.

I may be wrong, since its been some time since I've trusted a vehicle to "quick lube" places, but from what I remember, these places don't even use the traditional "funnel in the valve cover" way of filling oil.

What I remember seeing was a line hanging overhead, that they just inserted into the dipstick tube and pumped the oil in.

Sort of a "mcdonalds way" of filling oil.

So if these geniuses put that line in say, the transmission fill tube instead, there would be a problem.

There would also be a problem if the line didn't pump in ANY oil, or the wrong amount.

First of all, the op just said that she was "told" there was a turbo "failure".  Alls shes sure about is there was alot of black smoke.

If the flunkies at firestoned put ALOT of extra oil in there that fuker would probably be smokin for awhiile.

She never even came back and mentioned what her "mechanical failure" was, if it was the turbo, she should have checked for boost.

Since all we have to go on is the black smoke thing, then we can guess that theres oil burning because of being overfilled,or because the turbo seal failed, (maybe also from being ovefilled).

Or maybe it failed because these jerkoffs ran your car with NO OIL, then when they realized their mistake, (after they overheated the turbo and ruined the seals) they just added oil to cover their a*s.

Can't you just imagine these guys siting there revving away, thinking WoW, its TURBO!, GOLLY GEE, WE FORGOT TO PUT IN ANY OIL!

Oh yeah, when was the last time the oil was changed?

Oil is used in a turbocharger to cool the bearings.  If the bearings get too hot they fail and so does the seal that isolates the exhaust side from the intake side of the turbocharger.

At least that's the way the turbocharger worked in a 1989 Dodge Colt Turbo I used to have.

The exact type of oil and the exact level could affect the cooling over time, but remember, the OP said this started smoking as they drove away from the place.  None of those things would burn up the seal that quick.  I had seal go out in that car aft 50,000 miles and believe me it puts out massive amounts of smoke.

I don't believe the oil change caused the seal to go out. 

There are just too many variables here for anyone to know what really happened.

The OP didn't even make it out of the parking lot without experiencing problems.

Turbos fail.

The OP needs to just get over it. A $2000 bill for a turbo??

REALLY???

You really should shop around. That seems high. You might be suprised to find out how bad many dealership service centers really are.

High price.

Low quality.

For example, I have a 2006 Dodge Ram 2500. I needed another key made/programmed as the truck only had 1 when I bought it.
I dropped the truck off at the service center.

Rolled windows up, locked door, took key in to the service manager. Signed the estimate/workorder, and left.



I get the call that my truck is done, so I go in and there is my truck out in the middle of the "done" lot, windows down, doors unlocked, KEY IN THE IGNITION!!

Right away, I'm pissed. I mean really...WTF?

I pay, I leave, I get home.

I press the lock botton on the key to lock the doors and you guessed....NOTHING.

I call the dealer back, take the truck back, leave it again.

Pick it up, and this time it works, BUT they did not mate the other key to the new one.

Now, I find out after getting home that my other key does not work!



The dealer says, no problem, bring it back, we'll fix it...

yada yada yada



No problem?

What's my time worth?

How about the $4./gallon trips back and forth?



Dealership idiots.



Nothing is better at a dealership.

Just higher prices, and more inconvenience.



Thanks Firkins Dodge of Bradenton.

For nothing.





I paid $220 total, which was the key/labor/ tax.

Could such damage be done if Firestone overfilled or underfilled? And short of doing oil changes on one's own, how do you protect your vehicle if you can't even count on a dealer putting the right stuff in? I would think in having all changes done at a dealer at least you have some leverage to involve the manufacturer in a dispute like this.

Charles, 



I will not apologize for calling stupidity where I see it.

I tell it like it is.



I know the truth hurts sometimes, but the lazy, stupid and illiterate need to be informed that they are lazy, stupid, and illiterate so they can try to make changes for the better, and maybe open their eyes just a little so they do not get "ripped off" so often.



You are a "professional victim" because you choose to be.

You need to get off welfare and get a job, and get off Mommy's tit.



I am guessing you are a grown man, so it's time that you act like one.

Take responsibility for yourself, and for your own actions. Stop making excuses for everything that goes wrong in your life. Stop blaming others for your welfare entitlement mentality.

And, make sure you stay on your meds.



Stop crying like a baby all of the time.

Nobody wants to hear it.

Grow up.

Steve don't care about nobody but, himself he Is a bully thug wanna be I am sure he was on that jury who convicted the pharmacist for shooting that black thug who deserved to be shot 5 times.  Anyone who tries to murder or rob somebody deserves what they kid.



I am glad that black punk got what was coming to him.

glad to see rip off report readers are getting smarter with these people who look for free fixes------i had one of these people today--in some dirty piece of s**t--old a*s like 1980 toyota landcruiser---sayin we broke a button on his e brake handle and now his e brake is complteley broke--although--he also asked the service manger if we could take a look and see what was goin on----he says that after we looked at it it is now "compltely" broke and we should pay for the ddamage????---are you f**kin kidding me-----the sad part is-----i think the service manger is a p***y and is scared to say no--cause then he has to worry about corporate comin down on him---it is a sad world--and people like this should kill themselves!!!!!!!!!!----lets not forget the fact that the interior of that car is piled with just junk and flithy--crumbs everywhere--brown water in a cupholder with mold----people are such a holes----that mother f**ker is not riskin my safety and i am not goin to do anything with that piece of s**t

Your're pretty much on par with what the guy on the royal purple line told me.  He told me even if I lived on the equater he would still use a 10w30, or whatever "w" my car called for.  He said the same thing as you about the startup protection etc.

I agree about the startup thing, which probably explains why I see so many cops, towers, ambulances etc leaving the vehicles continuously running, (among other reasons). Just hope their fans don't fail...

And I know that if you go to your local oil store and shake bottles of 30, 10/30, and 5/30 you can tell a difference. Awhile back one guy even showed me a bottle of 0/30 (mobile 1) when felt like water when I shaked it.  Which is kinda strange because I thought the "w" only came into play in cold temperatures.  I sure hope that 0w30 got a little thicker after being cycled!

So why I agree with you guys that the "w" oil is probably best for an "initial" startup in an engine, especially a new or rebuilt one, which would be "dry", I have to wonder if that same "thinner" oil is not running back down to the pan quicker after shut down also, leaving the engine less protected for the next startup.  This is probably a highly debatable subject and not even taking into acct the filter being used.-  (anti-drainback valve etc.)

I'm sure you've seen those displays for "lucas" oil products (which to me is just really thick oil or "Stp" rebranded).  This "syrup" concoction really does appear to stay at the top of the miniature "engine" display while the "regular oil" runs right down.(at the expense of a few mpgs i'm sure) Thats why In my daily driver I run straight 30 RP.(an ohv pushrod v8 with alot of miles)  It's slightly "thicker"than the RP 10/30 and seems to stay at the same level for the months I expect to get out of a "premium" synthetic.- I was only actually thinking of putting the straight 30 in the turbo if I started driving it more regularly.  I feel right now that with the 10/40 the "10" offers some startup protection and the "40" offers the better longevity under the turbo heat.  And I've always heard that 10/40 is a "turbo oil"-  In the past Pennzoil even marketed a 10/40 turbo oil.  

But now with the supposedly superior RP oils not breaking down like the oils of the past I am considering going  to 30 or, the 10/30 recommended on the oil cap- depending on my "drivng habits".  I would even consider the 5/30 like you say, if it didn't seem so d**n thin!

I also agree that alot of the "myths" about synthetics are hopefully just myths, that may have been true for the "cheap bulk oil" of yesterday.   But one I still do believe in is that you have to be careful putting it in an old engine if you don't know the history. I haven't had a problem with the RP, but I used some Mobile 1 5/30 in a high mileage used car a few years ago and that car started leaking oil like a sonofabitch!  That turned me off from synthetics (motor oils, not trans fluid) for a long time, until RP came out and I decided to give them a try.  And ive known people that will still put the Mobile 1 in their old vehicle because "they want to give their baby the best" and then they wonder why their oil is all gone in a few weeks! (or less)

Thanks for the advice on the gas additive, never thought about that, Ive acutally had some mystery oil sitting around for awhile but never really used it.  The car is injected but converterless, what do you think about some "lead substitue" as well haha!  

Now to open another can of worms since you mentioned racing.  You never said what you used, but what do you think about all the hype over the 20/50 "racing oils"?  Ive used 20/50 "bulk" in a old 351 ohv with alot of blowby (to help get rid of the blowby)  And I've put it in a 350 (good condition) with headers (because the header is right next to the oil filter.  These cars see interstate driving but not "sustained high speed racing".  So basically I just used the 20/50 to help control heat and blowby.  Sounds like form your opinion though I could be doing more harm to the engine than good?  As well as making starting harder?

Thanks again for the input.  Isn't it good to have such a choice of oils to keep the mechanically superior motors of the past on the road!

With your vast knowledge of oils I wanna know what you would recommend for a 2.3  turbo 80's vintage. (gasoline)

**I would use whatever viscosity the engine manufacturer specifies** (Regardless of what type of oil is being used).



10/40 which is what's in it now, straight 30, or 10/30 which is what the car calls for?

**Whatever the manufacturer calls for**



Car is very sound and only stared and driven every month or so.  Of course no cold weather driving here either.

**If the car is rarely driven, the thing you need most is proper lubrication at start up. Dry starts are a leading cause of wear, and engine failure. I would be more worried about the fuel than the oil. Nothing in that car's fuel system was designed for ethanol use, but all gas today has approx 10% ethanol content. Use a top oil in your fuel, like Marvel Mystery Oil, or even a 2-stroke oil**



I know what Royal Purple told me but I wanna see what you think.

**I like Royal Purple, but keep in mind when you call there, you are NOT speaking with an engineer, or even a mechanic. Consider the source of that "advice".



Ive heard the myths myself about the multi viscosities breaking down and cooking, but at around 9 dollars a quart I would hope not.

**That is a myth. Urban legend. Old school misinformation. Frequent oil and filter changes cure that problem. If your oil is "cooking" as you state, I would look for overheating problems. FYI...I have built and raced a small block chevy here in FL at 8800RPM. No oil cooking there, and no bearing failure or any other problems. That was on AMSOIL racing oil.**



Ive also heard going to a thicker "weight" can raise your oil pressure and "push oil out the seals".

**Thicker oil actually lowers your oil pressure as pressure is based on the speed of the flow of the fluid. Thicker oils offer more resistance to flow, thus lower oil pressure overall, but that will vary from engine to engine based on design and condition. Although with that thicker oil, you will experience lower gas mileage, more engine wear, etc. Thick oil is tough on rings, and offers little startup lubrication.**



Personally I am thinking of going with the straight 30, because I hate oil leaks and again no winter driving.  And I would think modern 30 weight synthetic should be just as "tough" as the 10/40s of the past.

**Personally, I would use a 5-30 premium synthetic for all around protection based on your driving habits, etc. ...keeping in mind that the "5" is just the cold flow property, and you viscosity is still 30**



Thanks in advance for untapping your "sea of knowledge"!

I forgot to boast like you. I know what synthetic oil is and how it is made. I worked for many many years in the petrochemical industry. In the USA and in foreign countries.

"Turbo" is a generic name for an engine that has a turbocharger. I am fully and totally aware that the turbocharger uses the same oil as the engine. I am totally familiar with turbochargers. I built a jet engine using a scrapped one. The oil that can be used in turbocharged engines is fully debatable with valid points on either side.

Nowhere did I indicate that the turbocharger has a separate oil supply. I hope you're not so grumpy today. 

With your vast knowledge of oils I wanna know what you would recommend for a 2.3  turbo 80's vintage. (gasoline)

10/40 which is what's in it now, straight 30, or 10/30 which is what the car calls for?

Car is very sound and only stared and driven every month or so.  Of course no cold weather driving here either.

I know what Royal Purple told me but I wanna see what you think.

Ive heard the myths myself about the multi viscosities breaking down and cooking, but at around 9 dollars a quart I would hope not.

Ive also heard going to a thicker "weight" can raise your oil pressure and "push oil out the seals" 

Personally I am thinking of going with the straight 30, because I hate oil leaks and again no winter driving.  And I would think modern 30 weight synthetic should be just as "tough" as the 10/40s of the past.

Thanks in advance for untapping your "sea of knowledge"!

A turbo runs off the engine oil, that's why engine oil quality is imperative when you have a turbo.



You are misinformed about synthetics.



Do you even know what a "true" synthetic is?

Hint: It's NOT Mobile 1, Pennzoil Platinum, etc.

These are all "wanna be" synthetics. Petroleum based synthetics.



There are only a few "true" synthetics froma true synthetic base.

The leading product is AMSOIL, and also Royal Purple, and I believe Redline still has a true synthetic.



Don't believe all of the old school myths and urban legends your dad and granddad told you.

They are simply wrong.



Knowledge is power.

Get some.

I'm also wondering what the "wrong compartment" is? Anyway, my two cents worth is, shouldn't turbos only be filled with a synthetic, straight viscosity oil? The very high temperatures involved causes coking of regular oil leading to blockage of the oil feed to the bearings on the turbo. The additives in synthetic multi grade oil can also cause coking. 

Marie,

I am well qualifed to comment on this issue. I got my first ASE Certification in 1987, and since then, many many more. Along with working as a mechanic for several years and also being a service manager. And, I have built and raced cars.

I know exactly what I am talking about. Unfortunately it is you that is TOTALLY clueless here. You do not have a shred of a clue.

And, "Dealer Service" is not usually any better than many local grages, and the fact is that you often get sloppy work at a dealership as they are so busy, they take shortcuts and/or just get in a hurry.

Your statement of the "wrong compartment" thing for the oil told me that you are an idiot.

The oil goes directly into the opening on the engine. There is no "compartment".

The bottom line here is that you are totally clueless and want someone to blame.

Not gonna happen. Guaranteed.

In order to win anything in court, YOU will have to prove EXACTLY what Firestone did wrong to cause the turbo failure. The legal burden of proof is on you. That's how it works.

I have seen your kind before with the "your the last person that worked on it" syndrome.

Maybe you should have purchased the extended warranty.

Who's fault is that?

Yours.

More details would be helpful.  Such as, What type and grade (5/30 10/30/ 5/20) regular/synthetic oil was SUPPOSEDLY used and was this different from the norm.  And how do you know they didn't OVERFILL the engine resulting in oil BURNOFF?

Also you didnt fall for one of those "oil flushes" did you?

Did you noitce if the car still had boost before you took it back?

Please explain where the 'wrong compartment' is that they put the oil in.  I'm not aware of it and I'd like to learn.  A drawing or diagram might be helpful.

Waiting patiently.

And they can't be repaired except by replacing the turbo unit.

You never said what the dealer claimed to have caused the failure . I agree with the previous poster . Turbos do fail without warning. and another thing there is only !place to put the oil . I guess someone could mess up and put it in the washer bottle. I think you just looking for a free repair for a problem you had all along .

Maybe you missed the part where I stated that until the oil change at Firestone the vehicle was a dealer serviced vehicle.  We have always used the manufacturer recommended oil at the dealership.  In addition the dealer that did the diagnosis can back up my claim.   Turbo failure can occue\r when oil is placed in the wrong compartment.  Unless you are a certified tech, mechanic or attorney who has handled such cases, please refrain from making comments.  Thank You

Although I can see your frustration, I cannot see how a simple oil change could lead to a turbo failure.

You never mentioned how many miles were on the car either.

And, you never mentioned what level of service/type of oil you were getting at Firestone.

As a mechanic, I can tell you that turbos fail, and usually with no warning.

The quality of oil you put in your car makes all the difference.

Were you using a premium synthetic oil, or a junk, cheap "bulk" oil?

It makes a difference.

Many people chase those $19.99 / cheap oil changes and then they wonder why they have mechanical failures.

With all of this, I seriously doubt that Firestone had anything to do with your turbo failure.

Highly unlikely.