GulfStream Sun Voyager RV Ripoff Lemon complaints ignored by Manufacturer Nappanee Indiana

Number one priority is getting your parents either a refund or an acceptable RV. They need to have a place to live. And, they need to get something for all the money they have spent.

I'm not there to oversee the situation. I can't say if the RV is worth anything or not. These are judgment calls only you and your parents can make.

So, number one is to look at the RV and decide if you will accept it or not. If you refuse to accept it, you need to force the refund.

That's the options available to Gulfstream. Either deliver a good RV or give the money back.

Make that happen first. Once you get your parents a place to live and a refund of their money, then you can take on the whole industry.

Paul:

I know that you say the weight issue is in fact not that big of a deal. In truth, like I said before, if they had bought the RV with only a thousand pounds of cargo capacity and then overloaded it themselves, that would be one thing. That the RV already was almost a thousand pounds overweight before they ever took possession is an entirely different story.

I realize that there are a million RV's out on the road that are overweight and many do not lead to accidents. However, to purchase a brand new RV and have it overweight before possession is beyond an ideal consumer product. This should NOT happen.

I came across a story online where a woman was asking for help for their RV problem. Overweight upon purchase. Her insurance company refused to carry the policy because the RV was considered illegal. The seller would not take it back. They were having various problems of things falling apart in it including leaks. They had a problem with the chassis and when they took it to the manufacturer of the chassis, the manufacturer refused to touch it or repair it because it was over the weight limit thet allow. Those people were totally screwed due to an overweight RV that was empty of cargo. This is a very serious problem. We weigh Tractor Trailers on the highway to ensure the safety of it's driver as well as others on the road. Being overweight by a few hundred pounds is one thing. Overweight by two or three thousand pounds is another story.

I do believe that it was the weight issue itself that created the leaks. From the driving and shifting and towing a vehicle behind,it created cracks in the seals thereby creating leaks. I do not think it was just not sealed properly.

As for your other idea of waiting until the repairs are finished and then inspecting it, that would mean they are accepting a refurbished RV for the price of a brand new one. How many people are willing to spend the higher cost for a new product for a refurbished one? I know that if I'm paying for a brand new product, that is what I want for my money. If I'm offered a refurbished at a lower cost, then I would consider that. My mom and stepdad have not been offered any money back for their troubles, for getting a refurbished RV instead of a brand new one, etc.. The only thing Gulfstream has offered is to "restart" the warranty. How ridiculous. If people continue to settle for the RV industry doing these types of things, we are all accepting low grade products for high cost.

I am old enough to remember that seat belts were not a mainstream in vehicles until the auto industry made it regulation. It was a justifiable safety issue. Just because regulations for RV weights doesn't exist yet, it doesn't mean it shouldn't. I am not trying to screw all the RVers out there who have added some extra junk to their RV and it's overweight. I am trying to find a way to make the RV industry redesign their larger bus type RV's so that they can incorporate the niceties they want to provide as well as keeping them a couple of thousand pounds under the chassis weight provision. This is what has to be done. To ensure the safety of the RV drivers and everyone else on the roads they are traveling on.

I'm high on principle here Paul and the principle is that you don't sell someone a brand new RV that is illegally overweight, then when it has severe problems, fix those problems all the while continuing to charge for a brand new RV. This is an industry wide theft and deception that must be changed.

At this point, I'd make a decision as to whether it was acceptable or not. Be sure to climb up and inspect the roof carefully. You Debbie, not your parents. There's usually a ladder on the back. Just be careful not to fall off the edge. Some RVs have crowned roofs.

Is the roof sealed up like it should be? What about the interior? Is there any noticeable water damage? Does the RV look like new? Does it smell like new? Any mold?

Decide if the thing is finally usable. If it is, ask for a discount for the losses you incurred. Perhaps, $5,000 or so.

If it isn't, leave it there. I'd stop payment. I'd notify the lender that fraud is involved. You'll need to discuss this with your attorney.

There are several things that can force Gulfstream to make a refund or payment for loss of use. One is bad publicity. That will actually cost far more than any court judgment. They can't remain in business unless they continue to sell RVs. They can't do that if you convince everyone to stop buying Gulfstreams.

As far as weight goes, perhaps you can use this technicality to force the return of all your money and refuse the vehicle on this reasoning.

But, in actuality, weight means little. Granted, you would not want to double the rated weight of the vehicle. But, there is no need to do that. Nobody loads a 20,000 pound RV up with 20,000 pounds of stuff. That would mean ten tons of carrying and storing away in the various closets and compartments. Nobody would do something like that.

In reality, people load up all their travel trash and head for the highway. If they actually weighed the vehicle, they'd more than likely see that it is 10% overweight. In other words, they put a ton of extra stuff into an already overloaded vehicle.

That's typically what ends up happening. A little overweight is acceptable. Granted, some lunatic cop or insurance salesman may object. But, those are the crooks you try to smash flat with the RV anyway.

Seriously, weight is not the problem. The chassis handles it. The RV goes down the road just fine. If your parent's RV didn't leak, they could have done the exact same thing as the typical user.

The industry could make an RV that follows the weight rules, but they choose not to. Trust me, it's really not a problem. Wheels don't fall off. Springs don't collapse under the load. Innocent people aren't being run over by runaway RVs because of illegal weight. The things work just fine. That's why the industry continues to do this.

Read through these complaints. Within the last 2 weeks or so, another gentleman here in California had a similar problem with his new purchase. Not a Gulfstream. Perhaps you two can collaborate on disputing the purchases.

As always, use this site to your advantage. They offer a book, the revenge guide. Others have described it as useful.

I'm hoping things will finally work out for you and your parents.

Paul:

Currently, the RV is still in Indiana supposedly being repaired. Gulfstream called almost two weeks ago and said it would be done in a couple of days. However, my stepfather asked if they had completed all the repairs that had been requested by him and my mother. The woman on the phone said she didn't know anything about those repairs and only had a work order but she would find out about the list and let him know. So far there has been no word from them again. It is now thirty days since they took the RV not to mention the other three days prior to this it had to spend in the shop for similar issues as some of those being "fixed" now.

We chose to go another route. We drove from PA to Indiana and spoke with an attorney out there. It seems that this is not the first case he's represented against Gulfstream, the leaks are a frequent problem, and the defective sofa that resulted in my mother fracturing her elbow is also a frequent complaint of others. We are going the only route we can now. Legally. The Indiana state senator has been contacted as has their attorney general. Also a PA senator has been contacted.

AS for the weight issue, my calculations were slightly off. The RV is actually overweight BEFORE anyone steps foot in it. No cargo, no people, only the RV itself and it weighs almost a thousand pounds more than it legally should. I checked alot of things out about this. The chassis is made by workhorse and they will not guarantee or even repair chassis problems if the RV is overweight. It is meant to hold a maximum of 22,000 lbs directly on the chassis and no more. My stepfather also took the figures to the local state police who informed him that according to the weights Gulfstream has listed for the RV, it is in fact illegal to even drive it since it is overweight. It is a safety hazard. Upon further checking, I found that most RV's, not just Gulfstream, that are 35 feet and over are all either overweight or have only a couple hundred pounds of cargo capacity upon purchase. In an attempt to add all these wonderful extras, they ignore the weight issue and make unsafe and illegal RV's.

I could completely understand if they had a cargo capacity of 2,000 lbs and it was my mom and stepdad that went over themselves by overloading the RV, but that is not the case here at all. The RV was almost a thousand pounds overweight before any cargo or passengers. This is a serious problem. I also found that in situations like this, if there had been an accident, most insurance companies weigh the vehicle and if it is overweight such as this one was with passengers and cargo, the insurance would not cover the accident. How much more illegal can you get?

As I have stated, this is not just a Gulfstream problem but is an industry wide problem. The new "bus" RV's look beautiful and like a "real" home but more often than not are in fact not legal to use on the roadways. This is a serious, serious problem.

I am helping my mom and stepdad through it all including researching, finding the attorney, etc.. I also went with them to Indiana to speak with the attorney. The one question I had for him was that if this is such a problem with RV's of this type, why has no one filed a class action suit against the manufactureres? Problems like this can fall under the "lemon law" however, because it is actually a design flaw on all of these types of RV's it seems more to me that it should fall under the consumer laws of deceptive trade practice or some such type. This is a class action waiting to happen. All that is needed is the attorneys with enough bravado to get it going.

As things stand now, I do not think they will be taking the RV back at all since it is now more than the thirty days called for under the lemon law however, that still leaves them homeless and paying on a loan for an RV they cannot live in. Living temporarily in another family members home and now having to try to stretch their fixed income budget to find a new home to live in that they can call their own until all of this is settled. The money giants are raking the little people in situations like this and I am going to try to do everything I can to draw attention to it and force these RV designers to change their design or make larger and stronger chassis, even bigger than the W24 that holds 24,000 lbs. Even if my mom had gotten that RV, given that theirs is almost a thousand pounds overweight on a W22, that would still have left them maybe a thousand pounds at best of storage capacity which is not alot when you are talking about living in it full time.

Will keep you posted as things progress. Take care.

Debbie, it sounds like your parents are having a tough time. Take as much of the load off them as possible.

First, get in touch with Gulfstream. Where's the RV? Is it being fixed? What repairs?

Explain that your parents wish to rescind the deal. Gulfstream won't be happy about this, so you'll need to push hard for a refund. Remember to keep your temper. Be civil on the phone. Be factual. Record your conversations and the name of the individual that handled them. Keep records.

Explain that you have filed this complaint. Mail/fax them copies. Explain that the update can be favorable or unfavorable, depending on the outcome.

If Gulfstream tries to work with you, great, If not, move to the legal domain. The web site is called RVlemonlaw. Call the 800 number. Start the process of finding an attorney. Do the initial consult. Do this even if Gulfstream is working. If they coast to a stop at some point, the lawyer will be located and ready to proceed.

Stay on this. Don't let weeks stretch out into months. I estimate you'll spend two days searching for the attorney. Interview many. Discuss the case. Weight the possible outcomes.

Keep your parents in the loop. Let them know you're on it. Try to relieve as much of their worry as you can.

As far as weight, I understand your point. Technically, you're correct. But, in reality, the GVW is of little concern. I live in my RV. The d**n thing is loaded down with tons of stuff. Heavy steel mechanic's tools. Tons of books. I know it's overweight. Couldn't care less. It handles the weight just fine.

Don't get bogged down over weight. Weight isn't the problem. It's the leaks that turned the RV into a lemon. All RVs leak at some point. But, a new one should be dry as a bone. Maybe a small drip is understandable. But, soaked? Warped interior? Idiots built that.

I'm not sure what seals you're referring to. But, again, weight didn't cause this problem. There are many openings cut into the roof. There are ventilation hatches. Holes for vent pipes. Antennas. All of these need to be sealed up carefully. Perhaps, the roof isn't installed right. Where it joins the vertical walls. I'd have to see the problem to diagnose it. Rest assured, it's not weight related. It's more like improper assembly.

Stay on this. If you back off, it'll show Gulfstream that you're not committed.

Don't give them the opportunity to let this slide!

Hi Paul!

After leaving the last update, I decided to and find the Gulfstream manual to see about the weight issue for myself. My prior information had been given to me by my stepfather. What I found is shocking.

The Maximum loadable vehicle weight is 22,000 pounds. This is the max weight that includes the people inside, their belongings, etc. However, the vehicle itself weighs 20,075 pounds leaving a difference of 1,925 pounds. Adding in the weight of the water in the tank and the a full gas tank, which weighs 665 pounds together, leaves an allowable loadable weight of 1,260 pounds. Upon adding up the added features they had installed, which was just a little over 1,000 pounds, that leaves a weight allowance of 260 pounds before they step inside the vehicle. Put my stepfather inside with his small poodle and the vehicle is over weight. That does not include my mother, their food, their belongings, or what they stored beneath the RV. This means that they were traveling two to three at minimum overweight without ever knowing it.

Not to mention, the added weight allowance to include a dolly and vehicle tow is another 5,000 pounds. Their vehicle weighs 6,000 pounds itself. This is incredulous, dangerous and so far out of the scope of good manufacturing I am beside myself with fury.

I cannot believe that manufacturers are allowed to make and sell RV's like this without making clear to all consumers that there is a weight issue like this and that they may not be able to use the RV as it was purchased for due to this problem/defect. This is indeed a defect and so wrong I am just shocked. They sold my mom and stepdad an RV with an allowable weight allowance of 1,200 pounds and then let them add all those features besides leaving the weight allowance at 260 pounds. 260 pounds? How many families and their belongings weigh a total of less than 260 pounds?? What the hell is wrong with these manufacturers? We all know that if too much weight is placed on the chasis, it is incredibly dangerous and yet they continue to sell and sell and sell to people without informing them of this problem. My mom and stepdad were fortunate indeed that it was just the seals that broke and created the leaks. I am utterly furious. They spent all that money for a home and now we find out it isn't even possible to use this as a home. It barely is able to contain the people who buy it let alone any of their belongings.

When you tell people about RV'ing from now on, do me a favor and let them know about this weight issue on the larger RV's. People need to know the danger that manufacturers are readily putting them into.

Debbie

Thanks again Paul for the responses and as for the lawyers, fire away. However, I am not sure if they will be able to use California attorneys. It's my understanding that claims like that must be initiated in the state of purchase, which in this case would be Florida. So far, we have found one Florida attorney and he has not gotten back to us.

For you own information, I found a site on here that had an interesting report. Apparently, with alot of the larger RV's, there are problems with respect to the weight on the chasis. It seems that the manufacturers, not just Gulf Stream, are making the interior so nice and fancy with so many features that by the time you add up the total weight of everything, there is not alot of weight room left for the people to travel in it with supplies. The result of this is of course very dangerous to those driving the RV and one of the things that can happen is for the seals to break due to the inbalance of the RV. Those nice storage cabinets at the bottom of the large, expensive RV's can not be used to capacity but instead can only partially be used in many cases because the weight is too much. Was reading how one family of five or six, after buying their RV, could not add any supplies because it then put the RV overweight and out of balance. Amazing isn't it? To buy something for a reasonable use and then to find out you cannot use it for that due to weight problems. Many people do not realize this and do not even think to include the weight of the water holding tank and the fuel weight.

My mother and stepdad, without adding in the fuel and water, and after adding up original weight and added features had about four thousand pounds to work with. Not alot when you consider they are going to live in this thing, need food, clothing, etc. and their own weight included, not to mention when traveling they would have a dolly to tow their vehicle. I don't know how much of this weight must be incoroporated with the total weight since I am unfamiliar with how much the RV would actually bear of the weight of the dolly and vehicle. My assumption would be total weight since it is having to pull it but I am not sure if that is correct. If that is the case, before any person steps foot inside the RV, with the dolly and vehicle attached, they would be already be overweight by about twenty five hundred pounds or more. Interesting to know that these RV's cannot even be used for the reason they are purchased due to this flaw isn't it?

My step father, a very kind, honest, straightforward man, states that in their manual, Gulf Stream does show the weight of the features and the weight limitation. However, it does not matter to me if they give you weight information or not, if they are selling a product they know cannot always be used for it's intended purpose upon purchase. Kind of like if I were to sell a home with floors that could only hold a certain weight and once you put your furniture inside, you are overweight before you even try to walk inside.

As for the RV situation, they have yet to hear from Gulfstream about the RV. They have no clue if it is being worked on, if Gulfstream is going to do a buyback or anything. Not a peep from these people whatsoever with the exception of the people who drove it out that called to let us know it was in Indiana. Since then nothing. As Gulfstream does their thing, my mom and her husband are still homeless, having to pay every month on the loan, plus living costs to survive while homeless, not to mention the worry and sadness they are going through over this as well of course as my mother's injury.

What amazes me is that with all the attorneys out there, especially those who file frivolous suits, here these two elderly people are with a viable reason to sue and we have no clue what type of attorney to use at this point. Product defect that caused injury? Lemon lawer? At this point, they are not even focusing on that due to illness. First my stepfather, who is normally in very good health, was in and out of hospital for a month, now my mother went in the other day but hopefully she is due out soon. Personally, I think part of the problem with both of them getting sick, is due to this situation. I think they both have themselves so distraught it's made them ill. They live on a fixed income and when buying this RV, made sure it was affordable and then also had the money needed to live and travel some. Now, they are paying out twice or more of what they had originally expected to be paying, no home to show for it, and their financial worries are taking their toll. How do companies get away with doing this to people?

Thanks again for writing. Your thoughts and input are greatly appreciated. How's the smog? lol

I was in the RV parts store today, and picked up a magazine called RV Journal. In the back was a listing for 5 California attorneys who handle lemon RVs. All five are located in central or southern California.

In addition, I did a google advanced search/exact phrase with the words RV lemon lawyer and I found a site called RV lemon law.

Evidentially, problem RVs are more common than I realized. Attorneys have incorporated the complaints into their practices.

If you'd like the names and contact info for the California 5, or just need help finding the lemon site, respond here.

I assumed the thing was going back to the manufacturer. I figured your parents would either get a new unit or a refund.

How can they fix the coach? Maybe if they stripped it down to the frame and started over. I doubt they'll do that. It's more likely that they'll try a half-assed repair. Cover up the warped wood. Seal up the leaking roof.

Needless to say, that won't even begin to make things right. The coach is damaged. The mileage is being run up. The value will be very little unless it's fixed right.

Push for the refund! I read another story here about a guy who bought a combination RV/toy hauler. He got a lemon too. He was able to get satisfaction, albeit it months later. Search here under beaudry. That's the selling dealership.

First, I'd try to get resolution through this site. Then, I'd move the whole affair into court. With the amount of money involved, it will be civil court, not small claims. You'll need an attorney. Find one that is capable and competent. He/she will show you how to proceed.

Don't settle for less than your parents deserve! You're absolutely right. They paid good money here. Big money! They deserve a decent unit, with a normal resale value. And, they deserve the chance to experience the use they have paid for!

Keep updating here. That keeps the complaint fresh, in with the latest postings. And, keep on these frauds until you get an acceptable outcome!

Paul:

Thanks again for the fast reply. And yes, the water was gallons. The leaks would continue for up to two days after the rain stopped. Things are not quite resolved yet though. The RV is on it's way back to Indiana, or perhaps it has gotten there already. It left Saturday.

The people at Gulf Stream are willing to make all repairs and "restart" the warranty. Wow. Gee. How nice of them. lol It's laughable. My mom and step dad have had to move in with a family member and help pay living expenses not to mention they are still making the monthly payments on an RV that is useless. My mother has a fractured elbow thanks to the defective couch and Gulf Stream thinks they are being overly kind by being willing to "restart" a warranty on their home when it is repaired. It is my understanding that at this time, they want Gulf Stream to buy back the RV at full cost and refund some of their added expenses like motels and such while not being able to live in the RV due to its condition. To me, for them to accept a "repaired" RV is like allowing them to sell them a refurbished RV at the cost of new.

I am just disgusted at Gulf Stream and how they handled everything with my mother and stepfather. They were totally ignored by the company until the owner of the Longview dealership stepped up to the plate and took matters into his hands. Mr. Frank Roberts from Longview was the only one who got them the help they needed. He's a very good man. If anyone is looking for a motorhome to buy, I suggest buying from a Longview dealership. There are four or five up and down the east coast. This way if you have any trouble with the RV, you can contact Frank Roberts. He's honest and decent and he actually cares about the consumer.

Keeping my fingers crossed here that Gulf Stream is forced to do a buy back and include some of the unnecessary expenses the folks have had to put out while unable to live in their oh so expensive "lemon" RV.

I used to deliver motorhomes for National RV a while back. They checked for leaks by spraying the entire roof at the completion of assembly. They had a special spray booth that squirted high pressure water.

National made decent units.

I'm sorry to hear it didn't work out for your parents. I hope they got back most, if not all, of their money. But, still, there is the loss of time. The aggravation.

Trust me, Gulfstream will lose far more. Ex-owners talk to others. Influence matters. One dissatisfied customer can easily influence 2 more potential customers. Give the search engines a week to index this complaint, then search Google. This site has a funny way of coming up right near the company's own web listing. A fraud complaint! That's always good for new business, huh?

Sounds like you were right. Lemon. I'm thinking a small trickle. You're describing gallons of water per minute.

You know, quality is really getting to be a rare commodity anymore. Fast, cheap, and maximum profit are today's mottos. Doesn't that suck?

It's a shame this negative experience left your parents wary of the whole lifestyle. Perhaps they may lose more than their time and money when all things are considered. They intended to replace a conventional home. Now, that option isn't available anymore. I'm sorry to hear that.

You know, there are many used units available on the market. For a small fraction of the price of the Gulfstream, you can find a decent, livable second-hand coach. Just a thought.

No TJ Cope in my background. Sorry. I left Pottstown in 1981. The snow. Of course, out here there is smog. Bad smog. And, it last all year long, not just for a few winter months. Where can you go anymore?

I'm happy to hear your parents prevailed in the end. There's so much misery in these pages. Everyone hates to see the elderly suffer. A successful resolution like this brightens everyone's outlook.

Best of luck to you and your family!

Paul:

Thanks for the response. What a small world indeed. You used to live in Pottstown? How incredible is that? I knew a Paul who used to live in Pottstown on High Street many years ago. We worked at a company together called TJ Cope.

As for the RV, it is horrendous. My mother and step father contacted the dealership's owner who got ahold of Gulf Stream though it was like pulling teeth apparently. They did send someone out from Indiana to get the RV. Upon further inspection of the RV, it was found that the area of the hallway had also been leaking that we had not seen and is now buckling. The bathroom is also leaking as well as a couple of other areas we did not see before. The three cabinets above the sofa are soaking wet.

I do understand your point that when you buy things like that, some areas need tweaking and working on to get out the kinks. However, leaking from one end to the other from a brand new RV at the cost they paid with less than 6,000 miles on it is not something one should ever expect or tolerate. This particular RV is a lemon by all standards and Gulf Stream should be ashamed at their quality control on this specific product.

I am glad you had great luck with yours. From what I understand, the man who originated Gulf Stream has since passed and the company is broken down into three areas. Each is run by a different family member. The one family member who runs the area for this type of RV seems to be much more aloof at his concern over the product than the others which is resulting in putting a less than adequate product on the market.

Had it just been things like the taped hose and the toilet fixture and the generator, it would not be a problem. The leaks however are intolerable and I'm sorry to say that with a product for that price, less than six months old, if it needed sealent, it should have had it done by the manufacturer, not the brand new owner. It wasn't cheap, it wasn't refurbished or used and there is no excuse for such low quality workmanship by Gulf Stream.

I wish you all the best of luck with yours and I'm glad to hear you love your RV. As for my mom and step dad, this nightmare they've encountered may well be the end of their RV'ing career.

First, let me say that I'm sorry to hear this. Gulfstream is a decent brand. You'd think they check it out as they build it. Little complaints are one thing. But, major leaks? That's not right.

I own a Monaco class C. Not as new. Not as big. The perfect size for getting in and out of parking lots. It works well. I'm full time to avoid the crazy rents here.

RVs need small repairs from time to time. Most owners can do a lot of it themselves. Others need to hire out the work. Your parents are probably looking to have the service done for them.

Make a relationship with a competent, reliable rv service facility. Get the service done. Trust me, you make it sound bad, but I'd fix the problems in a day or two.

The roof needs silicone sealer or roof coat. Climb up and smear that stuff on like you're icing a cake. Use a plastic knife to smooth the glue. End of the leaks. Mine's as dry as a bone, even with all the crazy rain we've been having. Your parent's will be too.

Generator is an item better left to the dealer. Or, an experienced RVer.

Until the icemaker is fixed, use ice cube trays. The toilet sounds like loose bolts, seat and floor. Take off the nuts that are on it and use Nylocks. They don't come loose easily.

Tell the repair facility about the propane smell when you take it in for service. And tie those d**n cushions in place or put a giant piece of Velcro on the bottom to hold them.

Trust me, new anything that big comes with problems. But they can be worked out. Overall, the experience will be good. I love my RV. I own it outright. No house payment. No rent payment. I'll tell you, I've owned houses and I've owned RVs. You couldn't get me back into another house. Any money and work I put into the RV is a small fraction of what is needed for a house.

Life comes with obstacles. Work on them one by one. Soon, it'll be back to smooth sailing again.

BTW, I used to live in Pottstown a long time ago. High Street. Grew up there. Small world, isn't it?

Best of luck to you and your parents!