• Report: #786706
Complaint Review:

Humane Society of San Antonio

  • Submitted: Sun, October 09, 2011
  • Updated: Mon, November 21, 2011

  • Reported By: Robin — San Antonio Texas United States of America
Humane Society of San Antonio
San Antonio, TX San Antonio, Texas United States of America

Humane Society of San Antonio San Antonio Humane Society Possible Misuse of Funds, Unreasonable Salaries San Antonio, Texas

*Author of original report: Executive Director Resigned

*Author of original report: Thank You!

*Consumer Comment: Disgruntled former ambassador

*Author of original report: Media - and apology...

*Consumer Comment: On the Contrary

*Author of original report: nonprofit

*Consumer Comment: Well

*Author of original report: I apoligize

*Author of original report: Thank You

*Consumer Comment: Insults

*Consumer Comment: I Consult for 2 Non-Profits........

*Consumer Comment: Is that so? Take your own advice...

*Consumer Comment: Typical

*Author of original report: Wow!

*Consumer Comment: Based on your links

*Author of original report: I am sorry you believe what you do...

*Consumer Comment: Yes I did

*Author of original report: Have you read my report?

*Consumer Comment: Sounds about right

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This report is in reference to, in my opinion, unreasonable payroll and misuse of funds by several members of a nonprofit organization that is meant to serve the public in preventing cruelty to animals and saving their lives.

Animals die when funds are not used properly and cannot be used to save them.

Kathryn Bice is the Executive Director, and her salary was listed as $90,000 in 2010

The following information is taken from 990 forms that are required by law to be made public. I supplied links at the bottom of this report for users to check for accuracy.


2006 -     895,347

2007 -  1,144,485

2008 -  1,360,249

2009 -  1,409,463

2010 -  1,681,559

Payroll increased by $786,212.00 in only 4 years!


2006-2007 - 249,139

2007-2008 - 215,764

2008-2009 -   49,214

2009-2010-  272,096

According to GuideStar.org, there were only 37 full-time and 15 part-time employees in 2010...yet payroll was $1,681,559 in this year!

...this amount accounts for approximately half the income for 2010.

Regular hourly employees make 7.50 to 8.00 per hour.

Where is the money going?????

Generous grants and donations are given to the Humane Society to save animals...not to provide unreasonable salaries for a greedy few.

There is more to this story, but I must withold the additional information. However, I will be happy to provide it to qualified members of the media, charity watchdog groups and organizations, or legal authorities.

990s available from:



This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 10/09/2011 01:24 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/humane-society-of-san-antonio/san-antonio-texas-78229/humane-society-of-san-antonio-san-antonio-humane-society-possible-misuse-of-funds-unreaso-786706. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Author of original report

Executive Director Resigned

AUTHOR: CaughtThem - (USA)

San Antonio Humane Society Executive Director Kathryn Bice has suddenly resigned...this was only a week after management told employees that I was not telling the truth about her and management...and that they shouldn't listen to me.

I have been investing them for several months, and the investigation revealed a great deal.

I previously filed reports with the IRS and the Texas State Attorney General's office. I found even more information since my previous posts here, and I supplied all of it to investigators.

I expect more to be leaving or removed soon - including at least one member of the board of directors. I will post here when additional events transpire. 

Many who work for the SA Humane Society are honest and do great things. It is a wonderful organization. But the cancer that has been hidden in the organziation has been eating at its flesh. All of that cancer will soon be revealed and removed.

Again, my apologies to all that have commented. I was not clear in my original comments, and in my frustration I attacked them for their responses. The misunderstandings were completely my fault.

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#2 Author of original report

Thank You!

AUTHOR: CaughtThem - (USA)

Thank you for your comments! :)

Everything has been reported to the IRS and others. So it will all be public in time. I'm looking forward to it!

And I never said the director was the highest paid. And it's funny how the rest of the information is ignored. Also, I was a volunteer, not a paid employee. The Web coordinator thanked me for my information and was happy to hear what I had to say. And he worked for google for two years in exactly the same area that I gave advice on. :)

I said to both Katherine and Pat that I didn't care if they took my advice or not. If they didn't want to, they could just discard it. So maybe you have been given some misinformation. So I am not upset with you for that. If you look at the spokesperson's interviews with the press, I'm sure you will see how providing misinformation is common.

No worries, and yes...I did go on a fishing expedition. You are correct abou that! And, I caught some very big fish that I turned over to the IRS!

Thanks again for your comments! I enjoyed hearing from you. :) And I am looking forward to the final results of my fishing expedition. Several fish have been caught, and they are soon to be cooked! :)
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#3 Consumer Comment

Disgruntled former ambassador

AUTHOR: Robert - (USA)

I think you're a disgruntled former ambassador.  I read your blog website for your take on things as well as your LinkedIn profile.  2 months ago, you couldn't write enough good things about this place, including the management.

You offered your services as an SEO expert and they turned you down.  Most small non-profits don't have a budget to support the type of IT services you were suggesting; constantly checking and updating directories of various website they don't control.  Even if they took you up on your offer, which would be redundant as they already have an Officer for PR, what would they do when you stopped such services?  Who would know all the directories you have been monitoring and updating?  For a small organization that services a small geographical area, the services you were offering were overkill and (IMHO) not needed.  I agree with their decision NOT to accept your offer.

Now, you post innuendo that something shady, and possibly illegal, is going on with their finances because you don't think the director should be paid 90K.  Further, you post to all in a manner that encourages others to make complaints or provide "details"-a big fishing expedition started by you.

These is a saying; "put up, or shut up!"  If you know of something illegal, by all means report it to the local LEO, state licensing agency, IRS, etc.  Based on your postings, you don't have any direct knowledge of any impropriety and you are FISHING for information. 

IMO, you're a disgruntled former ambassador who seems to be stirring up the worms simply because they didn't place the same value on your self proclaimed SEO Expert Services as you did.  I read your "kind" proposal on your blog and I think you were overbearing and trying too hard to become part of the management team in their organization-very pushy for an unpaid volunteer.

If you read the 990 you post about, you would see that the director IS NOT THE HIGHEST PAID EMPLOYEE.  You would also see the breakdown of wages and benefits PER PROJECT/SERVICES.

All this investigation by you because you feel slighted-get over it!  For what it's worth, I would have turned down your IT solutions as well-what you offered was simply not practical for such a small organization that services a small geographical area.

I think you owe everyone involved a very big apology.

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#4 Author of original report

Media - and apology...

AUTHOR: CaughtThem - (USA)

My apology first to all.
I should not have made the types of comments that I did. You are correct. I was viewing what I had written with the knowledge that I had thinking that I had made things clear. And I got upset at others for my lack of clarity. I did not realize that I had written things in a way that others could not understand. And I did not realize it, until after Robert's last comment here.

It was very wrong and should have been noticed by me the first time anyone responded. All have my profuse apologies.

The Media has been notified. But not all information was provided. I want the authorities to have time to uncover some of the detailed information before it can be addressed by others.

Also, I have a friend that is a former TV news anchor and now a radio news anchor. She does not live in this state.

The business across the country is a mess with massive layoffs and internal problems. Often, they take the easy way out and report the story that is given to them by sources they used before. There is little time for investigations or anything else with employees now doing the jobs of 2 or 3.

 We have only one major newspaper in this town. They were eager to take the story and wanted the exclusive and assigned a reporter. They were going to "break" the story.

However, it went on for a month...with little response to my messages....other than "I have to get with the editors for how to approach the story."

Eventually, the reporter wrote back that he hadn't looked at the story yet. I wrote to the editor...he just retired...another editor "left the paper". And the one left for news did not return my email.

I found that the editorial editor for this same newspaper is on the board of directors at SAHS.

All major broadcast media have also been alerted, but that was only a little before I posted this report. So we will see what comes of it. I must let you know, the media in this town is very supportive of the city. And now SAHS is teamed with city animal control.

I am not against SAHS; I am totally for it...that is why I have stood alone for all of this time trying to get things corrected - always making it clear that they were my opinions but also providing data. I finally have others that wish to come forward.

There was a Distemper outbreak at SAHS. And two stations covered the story. I had nothing to do with reporting the outbreak. And I stand behind everything that I say and attach my name to everything.

You will find it interesting to see the different responses to their questions. And also, as journalists, it is hard to believe they accepted words like "several" or terms like "a few." The SAHS spokesperson is one of the managers. She knows exactly what goes on at the shelter, so there is no chance that she did not have the proper information from the start. They most certainly know how many were put down. And the situation was going on for one month.

Below are the two different accounts of the Distemper situation. No media came forward to point out the discrepancies afterward, although they are great.

No corrections or further information was given and in no time at all the shelter had the "all clear" with testing confirming that all animals now tested negative...and that story was used just about everywhere.

On to the initial stories... First no dogs were euthanized and weren't going to be euthanized and several dogs were affected. And the next day 40 dogs had distemper and "a few'' were put down. If several "exposed" = 40 with distemper from the only the day before. I wonder  how many "a few" equals for being euthanized?

- - - - - -


Humane Society Recovering from Distemper Outbreak -- Robert Price

The San Antonio Humane Society is getting ready to reopen one of its kennels after a distemper outbreak threatens several dogs there.

Kennel "B" has been shut down more than a month after several dogs were exposed to the highly contagious canine virus. The kennel is home to the strays and "owner turn-ins" brought over from Animal Care Services.The No-Kill Shelter says it is doing everything it can to make sure those dogs stay healthy.

"They came from ACS, says Cathy McCoy of the Humane Society. We wanted to give them a second chance. We do not want to euthanize them, and we won't be euthanizing them."

The Humane Society says the dogs will be adopted out once DNA  tests confirm they are healthy.Wednesday, October 5 2011, 09:57 PM CDT


SAN ANTONIO - The San Antonio Humane Society gets the "all clear" to reopen a quarantined kennel. Communications Director Cathy McCoy says one kennel has been closed for a month as shelter dogs recover from a distemper outbreak. McCoy says they took in 150 dogs from Animal Care Services in June and about 40 of the dogs soon became sick with the highly contagious viral disease. A few dogs had to be euthanized to control the outbreak, and all of them now test negative for distemper. According to McCoy, the disease is very common and easily preventable with a vaccine.The Humane Society is hosting a wellness clinic this weekend that provides low-cost pet vaccines. For more details, go to sahumane.org.Published: 10/06 7:04 pm

 -I am writing to the Networks of all stations to request their reviews.

So...it is fortunate that I have done things to bring others forward. And it is now up to investigations. And they will decide if my opinions and information...and information provided by others are fact. It is not my decision to make. But I do have my opinions, suspicions, hard data, and reports from others as a basis for my opinions.

So investigations by authorities will make the determinations. And unfortunately, it may take the length of the investigations before the media will decide to report.

I wish all of you all the best. And I will not be back to this report until things have come to end. If I am incorrect, and the authorities find no problems - I will report it here. And I will also do the same if the media and authorities report otherwise.

Best regards,

Robin L. S

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#5 Consumer Comment

On the Contrary

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

I thought you were that guy trolling for a fight.
I figure I am "that guy" so let me tell you I was never looking for a fight.  People post on PUBLIC web sites need to expect that their claims are going to be questioned, especially when those claims are very non-specific in nature.  But will it make you feel better if I tell you that some of my original comments may have been a bit too much?

I was taking guesses on what your actual "RipOff" was, so I ran the numbers based on what was provided...nothing more..nothing less because that is all we have.  Had instead of going off on the rants and actually answered the questions in the beginning perhaps you wouldn't have come off as you did, and IMO that is NOT how you seem to think you came off.  Oh and no that is not me looking for a fight, it is just my opinion.  Which you can take or leave.

By the way as I stated in my original comment.  You stated that you would provide more information to qualified members of the media(who ever they are), watchdog groups, or law enforcement.  Well, if you really cared about the situation and animals why would you just sit their waiting for someone to come to you?

Even though I think the real reason(again IMO) has come out, as I said if your motives are true I really do hope the best for you.
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#6 Author of original report


AUTHOR: CaughtThem - (USA)

The nonprofit is an educational only nonprofit, and it will need relatively little funding. I will not accept pay for the nonprofit, and I plan to remove myself after it is going well...because there are many people of a much higher caliber than I am to run it. I have many extremely educated and experienced people asking to join.

Funding should not be a problem. I have a great deal of people interested right now. And since you read my blog, then you know that I want people to contribute to the SA Humane Society. I don't want money to be taken from them. Not even with my current opinions about the Director and Management. Offenders can be removed in time, the organization must continue.

I will not accept a position as President, Vice President, or Treasurer...or Executive Director when the nonprofit grows. I will likely start as Secretary, if I am approved by the initial board. And I will later bow out and work as a volunteer only...along with volunteering at the SA Humane Society when things are taken care of there.

Somone rebutting made comments about nonprofits not being for the public, but I thought I made it clear that I was discussing the one in question. And I also thought I made it clear that when I said "Where is the money going", that I was discussing payroll.

I am using my own money and donating office space in the start-up. I care only about results in preventing cruelty to animals and animal welfare in San Antonio. It is a serious problem in this city, and it is not being addressed well through educational means. I will do all that I can and give whatever I can to make things better.

I am 55 and disability retired. I want to make a difference, and I care little about money. I am eating, have a roof over my head, and I live in one of the greatest cities in the U.S.

I have done little to help in the past. I want to do as much as I can now.

Time has passed me by, and I need to help make things better in San Antonio. I love this city.

I still love the San Antonio Humane Society. And when things get cleared up, I will go back and help all that I can. It has many wonderful people there that do a great deal of good. The SA Humane Society has the potential for being a model that could be followed throughout the country.
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#7 Consumer Comment


AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Well I did as you suggested and Googled "Robin Snyder San Antonio", and wasn't sure it was you until your update so thanks for confirming it.  The most interesting thing I think was your Linkedin page.

Robin Snyder's Summary

My goal is to positively impact the rapid growth of the San
Antonio Humane Society and other organizations that will consider my
advice and accept my help. I hope to provide an active voice in Animal
Welfare in San Antonio. I am currently working in gathering information
for an animal welfare and education 501(c)(3) nonprofit that I will
launch early in 2012.


Could one ask that if a person is looking for funding for a 501(c)(3) Non-Profit, wouldn't a good way to get this funding is to disparage another Non-Profit in the community that is doing the same thing?

By the way I actually commend you for trying to do what you are doing if your motives are true.  But I will also say that if you are trying to start a Non-Profit and the only way you are able to do this is by disparaging another one by your accusations, what does that really say for your motive to help animals? 

Well at least I think we now know why you are not going to the media.  Because if a "simpleton" like me could find this information out imagine what they might find.
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#8 Author of original report

I apoligize

AUTHOR: robinsnyder - (United States of America)

I apologize to you, because I did not see that you were someone different. I thought you were that guy trolling for a fight.

The 2010 990 form was linked on the other site. And you are not finding the correct figures for 2009 anyway. You need to see total payroll which was 1,681,599 dollars for 2010.

It is best not to reply to financial information unless you actually know something about it. This is not meant as an insult, but it is clear that you don't understand financial data. And the assumptions about pay also show that you did not read my report fully either. But no harm done. The ones I wantd to come forward have done so because of this report and other information elsewhere.

Pay may fall under administration or programs. Some with administration...some with programs. It depends upon how they list it, and it depends upon what the manager is doing. If a manager is working as an administrator, such as an Executive director...the pay falls under administration. But if a manager is working on a program, it of course, falls under programs. A manager's pay may also be split by percentages between the two. For example, 90% program expense and 10% administration expense.

Some...manipulate their statements so that administration expenses are 10% or under because it looks good to funding sources.

So I hope you will understand that there is more to finance than what you currently are aware. And

I wrote my information for a select few that would find it, and it served it's purpose. Please see my reply to the nonprofit consultant.

Again, please accept my apologies as I see that your intent was not to start arguments as others here relish. I hastily replied thinking one of them had decided to play his games yet again. But I really don't care about trolls here anymore. They can write what they want. I have what I needed.

Best regards...
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#9 Author of original report

Thank You

AUTHOR: robinsnyder - (United States of America)

I appreciate your comments Jim. It's nice to have some comments from someone who actually knows something about nonprofits and business.

The purpose of my post was to encourage a few people in the know to come forward about other issues. And they have done so. I could not and cannot report everything here. But I will say that my information has been filed with the IRS. And now others are doing so too.

My report was never intended to totally inform about everything that is going on. So I did not and will not bother with that. Some of the posters here want exact figures and feel they have the right to demand that I provide certain information, but it is not necessary for what I have accomplished.

I agree with most of what you say.

However, as you know - For the nonprofit to report salaries only the highest paid employee and the Executive Director need to report their income on the 990 unless their are those making 150K or more.

There are ways for an Executive Director and even unpaid Board members and others to receive more than what they have listed on the forms. I'm sure you understand what I am pointing out here.

Also, as far as pay scale for animal shelters...here are the averages. Although not perfect, and there is clearly more involved. It does give a rough idea. And the shelter in question is a relatively small shelter. Even the Executive Director made that comment.


Additionally, San Antonio, Texas has lower pay in nearly every industry than other areas. I know the exact numbers of the coordinators, managers, developers, reg hourly employees, and support that work in this organization. Even with extremely generous pay well over averages for their positions, there is a great deal of money "left over."

I did not say that I felt that 100% should go to the animals. I don't believe that at all. I believe there should be fair pay for those doing the work. And I also believe that anyone who misuses funds should be exposed in any way possible.

Additionally, there are 500 volunteers at the organization. I personally logged more than 500 hours in less than 6 months. Volunteers do a great deal of the work. And the progams you speak of going up and down and having to pay to managers were not that numerous in the past. And when you see the increases I listed, salaries clearly did not go down.

The large increases in payroll over a 4 year period do not add up to what has been going on there as far as grants or anything else or increase in the number of employees.

In any event, there are numerous things that I have uncovered. And they will all come out in time. there are several authorities involved. It would be extremely foolish of me to be precise about what went on, as that would give any who may have performed illegal activities the opportunity to concentrate on the areas that I uncovered.

It is now up to results of investigations to decide.

So...I stated at the beginning that my "opinion" about the information was being presented. It is my opinion, I supplied actual facts...not the type of uniformed ramblings that were posted by others here.

But my opinion is based on additional knowledge. So I apologize to you, a professional, for presenting it in this manner.

I had to do so, to let those that work there and have worked there (that I could not reach otherwise or find a way to contact) what went on in payroll. Unfortunately, many don't know or don't check 990's or calculate increases, or see when certain members of the board started that may approve those increases, or go online to the organization Web site to see when certain members of the board left the board when information started to come forth.

And many don't understand about restricted funds. Or how much it actually costs to do certain things...or know how to see when there are violations in their use.

Again, thank you so much for your reply. It is refreshing to finally have someone reply that understands the way nonprofits work. And understands how to calculate financial information.

And those others that wish to add more drivel to what they have alread written may continue to enjoy themselves. My post on this site and others has brought forth exactly what I wanted. And I am satisfied and finished.

It was a pleasure hearing from you and reading your reply Jim... I am certain you are an excellent consultant. I am the organizer and founder of a nonprofit that will go active in January, and I wish that you were in San Antonio.
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#10 Consumer Comment


AUTHOR: Ashley - (U.S.A.)

I'll disreguard your uncalled for insults. I do take back my earlier statement, I was looking at the assets the company has, not the income.

However, looking at the IRS website it says they can fill out section IX 5-10 of the form 990 however they wish by their company's accounting. Being as they did not fill out anything for employee compensation or payroll taxes, I can only conclude they inputted this all as a lump sum. Now on yoru links I dont see the 2010 form 990, so this data is off the 2009 form. They declare $1,409,463 as salaries, other compensation, and employee benefits. The government does not require a full breakdown of these things. Now if you look in detail further down, you will see hat they declare $1,229,119 under salaries and wages. Being as they declined to break it down further this will include benefits such as insurance, vacation, payroll taxes, etc. All the costs associated with employees in addition to their hourly wage. Remember, you make make 10$ an horu at a job, but your job pays all these expenses bringing your hourly wage much higher when you consider all the benefits required. Now after you take out the managers, and the expenses related to payroll operations and fundraising, you will see $996, 107 remaining for your declared full time employees and part time employees. I believe the prior gentleman came up with a ballpark figure of 86,580 labor hours using some assumptions since you refuse to provide any raw data.  This gives an average wage of $11.50 an hour which seems more than reasonable. Likely lower since he estimated the part time employees at 15 hours a week. Using higher numbers:

(37 full time employees X 40 hours a week X 52 weeks a year) = 76960 hours
(15 part time employees x 25 hours a week x 52 weeks a year) = 19500 hours

$996,107 (Amount declared under wages: program servce expenses) / 96460 hours = $10.32 an hour.

Where is the rip off here? it all seems to add up to me. I calculate the average wage at this place to be 10-10.50 an hour which seems very reasonable. You have an additional 148,844 listed for the management, so the lady making 90k a year, leaving 58k for the other manager or two.

The way I see it from YOUR tax forms. A director making 90k, 2 managers making around 30k, and employees averaging around 10.30 an hour.

If you can provide us with more exact numbers as requested we could break it down further for you. I'm sure you will just come back with a comment about how I'm trolling you, instead of actually trying to understand the tax forms.

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#11 Consumer Comment

I Consult for 2 Non-Profits........

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

that help sick children and their families.  I have to tell you the figures you quote are not out of line with typical non-profits.  If the Executive Director is making $90,000 - I have to tell you that generally is not high enough; most Executive Directors make at least 50% more than that in a non-profit that size, and the only reason it isn't higher is probably because the revenues aren't there.

Even more important is that the Executive Director generally does not set his/her own salary.  That is something the Board of Directors does, and they have a keen interest in making certain ALL funds are properly used - in other words, they have a fiduciary responsibility for making certain the reported figures and the 990 postively reflect the non-profit.  The non-profit's I consult for have a Board of Directors consisting of anywhere between 15 and 70 people, depending if you want to count the secondary boards many have.  Also, anyone who volunteers for the Board of Directors isn't sitting there getting paid for it.  Instead, their reason for being there is because they believe in the cause and back it up with significant funds of their own.  Often, the Board makes personal contribution a requirement for being on the board (5 figures and higher), otherwise, you are not on the board.  

There are other considerations.  For example, you may see salaries increase exponentially because a restricted grant the organization received has been exhausted; more often than not, salaries associated with activities the grant was designed to serve would be offset against the grant, and yes that includes grants to save animals.  That would make the salary expense lower in years the grant existed, and higher when the grant is exhausted.  Simply saying that because salaries increased - let's d**n everyone associated... is pointless without evidence.  The fact you think it ought to go 100% to save animals, is pointless.  There is not a non-profit anywhere that can say 100% of the money donated or granted to it, is used directly for the program.  For every dollar, you can expect $0.30 to $0.80 going to the program served.  Those are the statistics right now.

Without people in executive positions in a non-profit, there is no money raised, no grants pursued, and no direction regarding the safeguarding of animals - not to mention all of the regulatory and statuatory requirements any and all businesses need to comply with.  Unless you have more evidence, your report is exactly as Robert points out.

One more thing - if you have to ask, "where is the money going..." maybe you ought to look at the 990 report you keep citing.  After all, the report has been audited and no one has been accused of theft. 
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#12 Consumer Comment

Is that so? Take your own advice...

AUTHOR: Robert - (USA)

Nonprofits are in existence for the public. They are meant to serve. That is why they have that status.

Exist for the public?  Explain please.  Where is this a requirement in law?

Meant to serve?  Who?  Please explain.  Where is this a requirement of law?

Status?  What status?  Please explain.  I suspect you mean an income tax exemption.

When you're done with that, please explain how these 2 websites serve the public and have "status;"  www.moveon.org and www.attackwatch.org.  Take your time, We'll wait.

You should check with the IRS and the SEC for a more accurate description of what a non-profit organization is.  There are non-profits that enjoy tax exempt status and there are non-profits who do not enjoy tax exempt status.  And know this, those that are not tax exempt HAVE NO DUTY UNDER THE LAW to answer any of your financial questions.  Those that do enjoy tax-exempt status are required to file certain forms with the government and, as a public citizen, you have a right to examine those filings-NOTHING MORE. 

Those non-profits that do NOT enjoy tax exempt status and do not accept any government/tax payer funds are not required to disclose ANYTHING TO YOU or the public at large.  They are required to file for their corporate status and income taxes.  You may examine their corporate filings, for a fee to the State, and their IRS filings are off limits to you.

Take your own advice and conduct some more research.  Your knowledge of non-profits and their purpose and financing is lacking.
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#13 Consumer Comment


AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

I guess the OP is surprised that she was actually asked to provide more than just generalities and accusations on a PUBLIC web site.  Then when they are asked to provide more information they go to throwing what they think are insults and more generalities.  Then when more people post instead of answering any questions they just say that they are done. 

So even though you are done here is one more chance to actually answer some questions.  Really these are easy questions, and if there is something truly up with this organization ones that would be easy for you to answer.

- What is your relationship to this organization?

- Why are you waiting for the media to come to you.   Why won't you go to them with your accusations?

- What is the exact hourly rate of every employee, how many hours a week do they work.

- What do you think each of these employees should earn?

- What proof do you have that animals have died because of payroll?

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#14 Author of original report


AUTHOR: robinsnyder - (United States of America)

I try very hard to give others the opportunity to present their views, but there are so many errors in this person's responses that it isn't worthwhile to continue after this.

Their payroll is 1,681,599 for 2010. Their revenue is 3,160,053.

And you have read the report???

10% labor ????

It is clear that you don't have a clue here.

The payroll is approx. 50% of income for 2010.

I performed a search with the following key words at google "Robert - Irvine rip-off" report". And I found the same type of misinformation of this users rebuttals...and inflamatory statements not based on reason or fact.

This is commonly known as being a "Troll".

The only way to get rid of a Troll, is to not respond to his comments.

So I am finished with this one.

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#15 Consumer Comment

Based on your links

AUTHOR: Ashley - (U.S.A.)

Their labor is running about 10%. I don't know about you, but every business I've been part of running 10% of your income as labor is fairly normal. It was a required goal at several businesses not to run labor over 10%

I don't see an excessive amount being spent on labor here. You've likely got a handful of people making 50-90k a year and the rest less than 30k a year. None of that seems excessive. A previous poster said there was a director and 3 management.  Take those out of the mix and do your 8$ an hour.

(33 x 40 x 52) x 8$ an hour = 549,120$ a year
(15 x 25 x 52) x 8$ an hour = 156,000$ a year

That's assuming EVERYONE makes 8$ an hour and I guaruntee you that many of those full time employees are making much more than that. 1.6 million does not seem excessive. Its likely the 7.50 to 8$ an hour you quote is for part time or entry level employment. Unless no one that works there has been there long enough to get any raises.

There's no rip off here, 10% labor is reasonable for any buisness venture. Even non-profits. Why don't you go in there an get a list of all the salaries being paid to all the employees and post that up for us to see. Instead of making conjectures.

I"m sure you are implying that someone is stealing this money.
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#16 Author of original report

I am sorry you believe what you do...

AUTHOR: robinsnyder - (United States of America)

...and that you base your comments on what you feel I should be doing.

As one who knows nothing about the San Antonio Humane Society, and was never there, never learned from the employees what was going on, did not bother to read the financial data, does now know the hourly pay, did not notice that I found infomation on guidestar.org...made comments that 18 per hour and 38K salaries were reasonable averages while not having any idea of pay to the average worker even though it was provided.

...I wonder how accurate your thinking process is. There are many reports forthcoming, as more are providing additional information to me as they read mine. 

And, this is a nonprofit. People need to see what is happening to the money they DONATE. They give their money. The nonprofit is for the public. I am a part of that public, and I will report what I find and my views. It is my right. And I do not have to set my time table or perform tasks when someone who is uninformed feels that I should.

This is not a for profit business, and you continue to treat it as such when you write. Nonprofits are in existence for the public. They are meant to serve. That is why they have that status.

I provided the information to the public so that they may decide. If they believe that type of payroll is acceptable for a nonprofit, they may wish to keep giving more money. If not, they may decline, It's as simple as that.

Many don't know about 990s, and I supplied information to make them aware and to check what I found for themselves. What have you provided? And do you believe that people are not as intelligent as you and cannot make their own decisions? I presented my VIEWS based on facts. Is that what you presented?

I also wonder why you are so concerned that I printed the truth here using accurate figures.

All of the facts may be checked through the links I supplied. And you are the one that is making decisions and comments about what is going on - without even checking those facts.
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#17 Consumer Comment

Yes I did

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

I did read your report and it contained nothing but a lot of partial information and speculation, where without anything else is probably slanted to your claims.

You said how many employees they had in 2010, well how many did they have in 2006 with the lower payroll? 

You left no details about individual salaries, or hours they work, so I gave you an average.  If we can figure that the Executitve Director is the highest paid employee, 90K/year for managing what appeared to be a multi-million dollar organization with 52 employees seems reasonable(IMO).  What do you think the Executive Director should earn?  How many employees do you think they should have?

You infer that animals have died because of excessive salaries..what proof did you show..NONE?

Now, if they have lost money.  Just like any other organization if the top management does not perform they may need to be replaced.  If that is your real point then that is a valid point but putting all of this other "fluff" does nothing to add to it.

If you really think there is something wrong with this organization then don't take the lazy way out and wait for the media to come to you.  Take this mysterious information you have to the local news stations.  If there is something to it, I am sure they would love to be the one to break the story. 

Then when they do please update this report with a link to that story.
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#18 Author of original report

Have you read my report?

AUTHOR: robinsnyder - (United States of America)

I submitted all information as to where I found the number of employees and financial data, and I supplied links. Also, there is more than one known pay amount. I posted that regular hourly employees make only 7.50 to 8.00 per hour.

And...unknowingly, you have made my case stronger. 36K on average is huge! Considering that most of the employees make less 17K...and there are only 5 managers other than the Executive Director...The somewhat above and below comment does not apply. And during the time of the massive increases in payroll, the employees were told that there was no money for raises.

During the year that they payroll increased about 49K, the organization lost almost 2 million.

The organization took a loss in almost every year that Executive Manager Kathryn Bice was in power.

Additonally, we are speaking of a nonprofit here. It is required by law to pay only reasonable salaries.

You complain about my figures, but they were taken by 990s that were supplied by the organization and must be by law. Yet you pull numbers out of mid-air.

The average amounts you referred to don't come close to applying here. And overtime is rarely given.

Please have solid evidence and facts such as I supplied...and actually read the report before responding next time. Thank you for your response though. You have strengthened my position greatly.

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#19 Consumer Comment

Sounds about right

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Sounds like you want people to be shocked about the 1.6 Million dollar figure.  Well did you do anything more than look at that figure?  My guess is NO..so let me help you out a bit.

Because we don't know where you are getting your exact numbers, such as how many employees are full time, part time, or how many hours they worked we do have to take some estimates.   This also doesn't take into account things such as Overtime.

Since we have one "known" Salary according to you we then have 36 Employees at 40 Hours per week is 74880 Payroll Hours per year.  15 Employees at 15 Hours per week(estimate) is 11,700 Payroll Hours per year.

So in a year they now have a payroll of 1,591,559 over 86,580 payroll hours is an average of about $18.38/hr.  For a Full Time person that equates to a salary of a little over $38,200 a year.  With an average distribution where some people are going to be below and some above this looks well within a reasonable amount.

There is more to this story, but I must withold the additional information.

- When people post that it is usually safe to figure that they don't have more, or they are "witholding" it for an ulterior motive.
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