Ipayments RIPOFF STOLE MORE THAN 20,000.00 FROM OUR BUSINESS ACCOUNT Nashville Tennessee

The person who is filing a class action lawsuit I would be interested. My story is posted at http://www.ripoffreport.com/update.asp?RipID=457640

They have about 3k worth of my money right now, Very difficult to reach them, asked me for 15 invoices and tracking info which i provided, and i am now being given the run around. Please contact me about this class action lawsuit service@stylesofny.com supposedly they need to do a "random" then they will release my funds. I am sorry i am just too upset right now to provide the full details. They are going to set my business back by a few months, and cause my family financial hardships. They need to be held accountable for there actions.

This company is very unprofessional.

I personally had an experience with this company that's borderline putting me out of business. I'm going to go above and beyond to rally up other small business owners who don't have resources to fight back and find an attorney to the sue iPayments. Please post a rebuttal if you're interested.

I also work for a credit card processor, and when we have angry merchants, it's a top priority. I just had a merchant call in who said that she had a phone call from someone who said they were from her current processor and told her that they wanted to lower her rates because she was such a good customer. They sent her 2 forms to fill out. When she asked them why they would do this, they again told her she was just a good customer and wanted to keep her business. Luckily she called in to our customer service number and told me what happened. She said the bottom of the forms said IPayment and she wanted to know if they were affliated with us. I told her no and made sure that she knew to call us if it ever happened again. I have heard so many bad things about IPayment since I started working here. Many of our new customers end up having to cancel with us because the cancellation fee with them is too high to even imagine payng. I love the company I work for, luckily the owner has very high morals.

I like the low cost of the equipment and so on like the OP described.

I have seen some major red flags since I started the process and signed up.

(1) They told me I could use a personal checking account. This did not bother me; and I thought it was cool at first. The banker told me that she thought that was very odd.

(2) I didn't notice this at first; but they sent me two pages to look over, fill out and sign. at the bottom of the first page it said 1-8 the 2nd said 8-8. Later after I was aproved they sent me the other 6 pages.......so then I came here to see if there was anything here about them.

(3) I also did a test sale with my own card. It was only ten bucks; but I wanted to see how long it really takes to get paid. I havn't got a penny and its been about 4 business days. If I can't trust them with ten bucks, I can't trust them with more , can I?

I also noticed something very disturbing about the wording of the contract, you know in the other six pages. basicly it says in so many words that just because a card is approved, it does not mean the merchant will be paid.

A real bank told me that they don't set any limits to the amounts a merchant can charge. they also said Ipayment sounds like a mom and pop shop that is going to be prone to problems.....however I disagree...they are looking more like a chop shop to me.

Card Service told me that these companies who don't have contracts often don't pay people. I told this to merchant warhouse and their rebuttal was "if we didn't pay people, how would we stay in business?" It made sence so I went a head and signed up. But now after reading the OP I understand.

I like the low cost of the equipment and so on like the OP described.

I have seen some major red flags since I started the process and signed up.

(1) They told me I could use a personal checking account. This did not bother me; and I thought it was cool at first. The banker told me that she thought that was very odd.

(2) I didn't notice this at first; but they sent me two pages to look over, fill out and sign. at the bottom of the first page it said 1-8 the 2nd said 8-8. Later after I was aproved they sent me the other 6 pages.......so then I came here to see if there was anything here about them.

(3) I also did a test sale with my own card. It was only ten bucks; but I wanted to see how long it really takes to get paid. I havn't got a penny and its been about 4 business days. If I can't trust them with ten bucks, I can't trust them with more , can I?

I also noticed something very disturbing about the wording of the contract, you know in the other six pages. basicly it says in so many words that just because a card is approved, it does not mean the merchant will be paid.

A real bank told me that they don't set any limits to the amounts a merchant can charge. they also said Ipayment sounds like a mom and pop shop that is going to be prone to problems.....however I disagree...they are looking more like a chop shop to me.

Card Service told me that these companies who don't have contracts often don't pay people. I told this to merchant warhouse and their rebuttal was "if we didn't pay people, how would we stay in business?" It made sence so I went a head and signed up. But now after reading the OP I understand.

I like the low cost of the equipment and so on like the OP described.

I have seen some major red flags since I started the process and signed up.

(1) They told me I could use a personal checking account. This did not bother me; and I thought it was cool at first. The banker told me that she thought that was very odd.

(2) I didn't notice this at first; but they sent me two pages to look over, fill out and sign. at the bottom of the first page it said 1-8 the 2nd said 8-8. Later after I was aproved they sent me the other 6 pages.......so then I came here to see if there was anything here about them.

(3) I also did a test sale with my own card. It was only ten bucks; but I wanted to see how long it really takes to get paid. I havn't got a penny and its been about 4 business days. If I can't trust them with ten bucks, I can't trust them with more , can I?

I also noticed something very disturbing about the wording of the contract, you know in the other six pages. basicly it says in so many words that just because a card is approved, it does not mean the merchant will be paid.

A real bank told me that they don't set any limits to the amounts a merchant can charge. they also said Ipayment sounds like a mom and pop shop that is going to be prone to problems.....however I disagree...they are looking more like a chop shop to me.

Card Service told me that these companies who don't have contracts often don't pay people. I told this to merchant warhouse and their rebuttal was "if we didn't pay people, how would we stay in business?" It made sence so I went a head and signed up. But now after reading the OP I understand.

As an employee of a merchant processing company, I am always intrigued by the issues that many merchants have with their card processors.

I did a web search on ipayments and there were multiple hits related to litigation and customer issues. If I were a merchant, I would certainly steer clear. Way clear. Because of this, I have to ask....why didn't all of the folks who have been treated poorly by ipayments research the matter beforehand? There are a whole lot of red flags that would have helped you consider other options. Aaron, who wrote the original post, says he was processed $37k during one of the months he worked with ipayments. That's a lot of money to trust someone with handling and some research should definitely be done. I'm sure they tell folks they have the "lowest rates", but even if that was true (doubtful) it probably doesn't seem very cheap now.

Quick note to Osha, the merchant processor employee who responded with "Your Responsibility as a Merchant". You're technically correct for the most part in your posting and it sounds like you like to work with merchants to make sure they don't have these issues. Do you really feel that ipayments isn't somewhat at fault here, though? Educating and training customers is part of a merchant processor's responsibility and it sounds like ipayments is coming up woefully short in this department. None of the posts above from ipayments customers show any working knowledge of what a merchant processor actually does, merchant responsibilities, card association regulations, processing protocol for shipping or PCI Data Security Standards. That is their processors fault and it is flat out bad business.

That said, the biggest reason merchants make mistakes in picking a merchant processor is that they are looking for big savings instead of a quality service provider. In actuality, the only way a prospective merchant processor can offer you large savings is if you are being treated horribly by your current merchant processor. If one company offers pricing that is too good to be true....well, you all know the rest.

Visa and MasterCard, the card associations, receive the majority of the fees that merchants pay for their processing services. The remainder of the fees, or the margin, is what the merchant processor receives. The card associations have designated over 240 different card categories that each merchant processor must recognize and process. Every merchant processor, no matter how big or small, is charged the same rates and fees by the card associations and every merchant processor differentiates each card category utilizing exactly the same card category name as designated by the card associations.

The card categories are designated in the following manner:
1.) Industry Retail, Restaurant, Hotel, Government, Utility, Service Industry, Gas Station, Supermarket, etc.
2.) Type of Card Personal Visa or MasterCard, Visa or MasterCard Debit, Visa Rewards, MasterCard World, Commercial Visa, Corporate MasterCard, etc.
3.) Method of Processing Face-to-Face (swipe), Mail Order/Telephone Order, Key Entered, E-Commerce, etc.
4.) Processing Efficiency Address Verification, Authorization/Settle Match, Timeliness of Settlement, etc.

These categories are as diverse as they seem. If a cardholder uses the same card to buy something from a retail establishment, lunch at a restaurant and pay their electric bill, all three of these transactions will be designated as a separate card and rate category. If a retail establishment accepts two different types of cards (ex. - a Visa Debit Card and a Visa Rewards Card) for a purchase of the exact same amount, both of these transactions will be designated as a separate card and rate category. The same is true for a Face-to-Face transaction as opposed to a telephone order. Furthermore, if a merchant does take a telephone order and doesn't enter the required cardholder information, the transaction will be downgraded to a higher priced card and rate category than a properly executed telephone order.

So what does all of this mean to you?

For many merchants, the hardest thing to do is accept the fact that the merchant processing system, to some extent, simply is what it is. There really are that many card categories. There really are that many different rates and fees. Your merchant processor deals with and manages this system they do not have the power to change it. Any merchant processor who claims to be dealing with a better or more advantageous system than other processors isn't being honest.

Sure, some merchant processors offer a simplified statement format with bundled categories, but only to keep from disclosing individual rates. The simpler the statement format the less a merchant knows about what their true credit card processing costs are or should be. A simple statement also makes it very difficult to perform an accurate comparison to other programs. For many merchant processors, their most successful customer retention tool is their customer's complete inability to understand their services.

Every merchant should insist that their merchant processor identify and define the rate category of every type of card they receive so that there is a better understanding of what fees are being paid, why the fees are paid, whether their processing can be done more efficiently and if their processor offers truly competitive services. Once the costs have been assessed, a separate assessment should be done regarding the level of service, support and education is provided. Any processor that will not assist a merchant in achieving these goals either has something to hide or is not able to offer the services that any customer has the right to expect.

For additional information about merchant processing procedures, responsibilities, regulation and practices, feel free to contact me at (( email redacted by ROR)). Please include "Rip-Off Report" in your subject line so that your e-mail is not responded to with any sales or marketing information.

I have been a client of Ipayments Inc. since 2002 and, up until spring of this year, had only one chargeback in the amount less than $22.00 which we did not receive any notification on.

While remittances were always slow, more so on larger ones rather than small, and some of them had even gotten 'lost' (see below), by and large, sooner or later, funds were deposited.

We had one credit card transaction which was a bit larger than normal but not unheard of. My limit was $20,000 per month and I was no where near it.

The infamous "Risk" department wanted a copy of the invoice and contact number for both clients. I immediately provided one of the two pieces of information wanting to know how they were going to handle the situation. I understand their need to check up on large transactions and have no problem with them doing so as long as they conduct themselves properly. I had no idea that a single company could behave so poorly with no consequence.

The circumstances of that transactions were that I had sold goods to a customer gained after several months of dialog (let's call them Company A) and agreed to drop ship the product to their client,, (let's call them Company B. The goods had already been delivered, used and performed as expected.

Ipayments left at least one message that I am aware of with my customer, who was out of the office. The call was returned several times by Company A, but they could not reach the person who called from Ipayment.

Ipayment then took it upon themselves to contact my customer's client (Company B) to whom the goods were dropshipped and, in doing so, according to my client, behaved in a very unprofessional and agressive mannor that they thoroughly freaked out Company B who were very confused and annoyed.

It is my understanding that Ipayments apparently revealed information to this end user company regarding pricing which the end user was not entitled to receive as it was not their credit card used. To say this incensed my client was, to put it mildly, an understatement.

This then put me in a cycle of playing telephone tag with Ipayments myself and I now understand why my client had so much trouble in reaching the individual concerned. It took me well over a week to speak with someone.

I finally spoke with the Ipayments representative and received no satisfaction. In speaking to the end user (Company B), she could or should have learned that the goods had been delivered well over a month before and that they were not going to be any chargebacks. The representative did not admit to calling the end user nor could explain to me what she had done at all other than to explain that it was their 'right' to do anything they had to in order to satisfy their needs. She did not communicate this information in a way that I would deem cooperative or even polite. If I treated my customers so, I would have been out of business years ago. There was no response to my suggestion that I was her customer and was entitled to full communication and cooperation from her or anyone else at Ipayments.

Which brings us to the infamous "Julie" the Risk department supervisor. To say that reaching her is virtually impossible is an understatement. I actually got the President of the Merchant Gateway I use (who used to work with her), call her in order to get her to return my calls.

The time of the year in which this occured is my slow period and, needless to say, my small company was feeling the effects of having spent a fairly sizable amount of money for the goods I resold and not having been credited with the funds.

On a Friday morning I left a message on Julie's machine indicating that I would be leaving the office at 5 pm and to please call me before I left as I had no wish to discuss this very important issue whilst driving down the Florida Turnpike in rush hour. And, wouldn't you know it, that's when she called. And just when my cell battery started beeping it's 'recharge me NOW" message.

She indicated that she was "a very busy person" who didn't need to get involved as her team was "very professional" in their contact with card holders. I tried to indicate elsewise but was told, almost literally, to shut up. She did not, in any way, including shouting over me, allow me to communicate my stance. She was very nasty and agressive well past the point of necessity.

While driving down the freeway at rush hour and listening to my cell phone dying, I attempted to express that her company has performed unprofessinaly and, as a result, had significantly damanged my relationship with my customer and she said, flat out, that I was overreacting and if I wanted to cancel the transaction and find another way to receive payment then that's what I should do.

She would not explain what was gained by contacting a drop shipped receiver when it wasn't their credit card used nor refused to comment on the damange that could potentially cause. After 10 minutes of getting shouted at by this rude, uncooperative person without being able to get an entire sentence out myself, my phone battery died entirely.

Cancelling the transaction is exactly what I ended up doing. It's now four months later after the sale. The product was delivered and used, I have refunded the customer's credit card and, get this, gotten dinged by Ipayments for their transaction fee.

I payments sat on the money for over two months, burned a sizeable client (I haven't heard from Company A since) and had the gall to charge me for getting sre***ed by them.

My client suffered from a damanged relationship with their client (company B) and, although professed not to blame my company for it, still obviously is very fed up. I believe that her customer now knows the profit markup she added on and is not happy about with her margin. As a result, Company A has still has not remitted the funds owing and now I may very have to bring legal action to bear or lose out to the tune of several thousand of dollars of product purchased on their behalf.

I'd love to nail I payments to the wall for this and other missteps, including the number of transactions they accidently 'lost' until we screamed for them, at which point they were mysteriously 'found', but my lawyer says that I'll have to stand in a long, long, long line. There are, apparently, so many companies suing I Payments that it's virtually pointless and the funds are absolutely incredible.

If you think this is the solution for your small business please please think again...it will drive you to both the brink of sanity and the brink of financial ruin. Even though you are their customer, you may very well be treated like s**t, anyone who sold product to may be treated similarly, you may end up losing thousands and getting charged the transaction fee anyway.

Run, don't walk, in any other direction but do not put your livlihood and that of your customers in their uncaring, unprofessional, hostile hands or you risk the fallout.

To those of you placing rebuttals on this report who are not current or past Ipayment customers, please excuse me, but you are clueless!

IPayment is a criminal organization praying on small businesses. I have a business degree and have owned and operated my own businesses for more than 20 years. I have extensive knowledge of contract, business and banking laws, and I can tell you, Ipayment follows none of them.

Don't believe for a second that the merchant who filled this report could have done something to avoid being ripped-off by IPayment. IPayment doesn't even follow its own contracts.

My company was using Ipayment for over three years without a problem.

WE NEVER HAD A SINGLE CHARGEBACK, NOT 1, NOT EVER!!!

One month, without cause or warning, IPayment kept $14,000 of our money alleging that we were a high risk business. According to our contract, they could at their own discretion, keep all funds collected from our customers for up to six months. Within 24 hours of noticing that our funds were not longer coming in, we provided to Ipayment (at their request) with proof of delivery to all customers in question. Including customer signatures, etc. They claimed that customers had up to 6 months to complain, so they would hold the money for that period of time.

It has now been 18 months and we still have not been paid regardless of the countless phone calls, letters, etc.

To this day IPayment charges us money for holding our money, since the funds are held in a non-interest bearing account that according to them requires a monthly service fee to be maintained. By their reasoning, if they hold our money long enough, they won't owe us anything.

So to recap, if you're not a past Ipayment victim, keep your comments to yourself.

Unfortunately in order for you as a merchant to end up posting here on this site, obviously you have already encountered a problem with your Credit Card Processing Provider. For what it's worth, I hope to enlighten you as to some of the basics in an attempt to save you from problems in the future.

99.9% of these merchant complaints are your own fault, NOT your Processor's. Sorry to be blunt, but it's true. Unfortunately, you opened your business and chose to accept card payments without doing your due diligence as to what that means exactly.

Merchants are often shocked, with complaints such as "I can't believe my Processor stole MY money!"
Well, it's not YOUR money. It's a complicated process (too much to get into detail here) and customer chargebacks are a constant concern.

When you applied to your Processor to be able to accept card payments, you were approved within certain criteria. Everyone involved in a transaction (cardholder, , card issuer, processor, merchant) agree to Visa/MC rules. Visa/MC make the rules...either you must abide, or you will not be allowed to accept card payments. What you need to understand is that your Processor is ultimately responsible to reimburse your customers in a "chargeback" dispute. That is, if Visa/MC decide that a cardholder is entitled to a refund and you cannot cover it then your Processor must pay it. The whole goal is to minimize the risk of a "chargeback". If your business is failing, you run a sloppy business, or are outright fraudulent with your customers then obviously your Processor is going to have a problem with you. The problem is that a Processor has no way to know how you run your business. Therefore, you better believe that if they feel something is out of the ordinary, etc that a "hold" will be placed on the transaction until their risk department is satisfied with your supporting evidence. Even with supporting evidence, Visa/MC may side with the cardholder and either you or subsequently your Processor must issue a refund.

YOU need to educate yourself! That's not to say that some responsibility does not lie with your Processor in certain instances. They do make mistakes, fail to educate you, have "tight" risk departments, are slow to repond, etc.

When choosing to accept card payments, you and your Processor must work together from the beginning in order to avoid as many of these "problems" as possible. Hopefully my post will help you all in some way.

And yes I do work for a Credit Card Processing Company :). If you have a need for a new company who will work with you a little better in avoiding some of these pitfalls, I will accept your emails at tmsprocessing@gobrainstorm.net
I will also gladly respond to any questions or problems you may currently be experiencing.

Regards,

Don't know what kind of business you are in, but charging every customer "up front" and then refunding 8 grand, because it's not in stock, doesn't sound like "sound business practice" to me.

Especially because you have to pay the discount points and fees on both transactions. Sounds like a drop shipper to me. Any company with that many refunds, is going to make it to this site. When I've had problems with my ACH company, I just up the food chain to get resolution.

The point Dave and Amy fail to see is... even IF there is a shipping problem it doesn't give Ipapyment the right to keep the money from BOTH the customer and the Merchant!

Chargebacks should be illegal, owning a business of my own I can tell you there are many customers who use chargebacks to steal product everyday.
Look at both sides.

I totally agree with Dave, that this could be handled in a better way. Why not, instead of charging the customer immediately, have the customer's order say "Pending stock availability"? That would save a lot of hassle as far as the credits go, plus the customer wouldn't be as disappointed when the item they requested is no longer in stock. I'm not trying to tell you how to run your business, just trying to help make it easier for you. We run a small business out of our house, so I know how stressful it can be.

I hope you are able to work it out with Ipayments and get your money back into your acct. That whole situation sounds screwy. Have you checked into any other processing companies? Or your bank? I'm sure there has to be a processing company that can better serve your needs, without stealing money out of your bank acct! Good luck!

What YOU describe as "good business practice" is NOT.

Credit cards should not be charged until the order is fullfilled. It creates ill will with the customer and results in Credits you mentioned had to issue. It can become a bookkeeping nightmare is is poor practice. I'm not defending the CC processor, just pointing out a problem.