• Report: #339236
Complaint Review:


  • Submitted: Wed, June 11, 2008
  • Updated: Sat, February 14, 2009

  • Reported By:Atlantic Iowa
www.mulesandmoore.com Taylors Or Greer, South Carolina U.S.A.


*Consumer Suggestion: I've been to Mules & Moore, too

*Author of original report: Jack Moore is not telling the truth

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: CC:report 339236 Response to complaint By Karan

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Last year I decided to start a horse-drawn carriage business. Although I was a beginner at driving, I was planning on getting my carriage certificate. I started looking for a horse in fall of 2007. That is when I stumbled upon the Mules and Moore website. It stated (which has now been changed, but I have the printed page), that all horses are 100% guaranteed. It also stated that this operation supplied commercial carriage companies with everything from horses to carriages to harnesses. Anything you would need to get started.

I immediately noticed a horse named Waylon on the site. It stated that Waylon was completely traffic safe and voice commanded. When I called to inquire about him, that was when I first encountered Jack Moore. He told me Waylon had been a commercial carriage horse in New York City, and that he had been in a movie. Wow, I was impressed. I asked him why he was for sale, and he said they rotate the horses all the time. Hmm....made sense to me. I have later learned that when you have a great carriage horse, you never sell them! I also noticed at the same time another horse on the site named Willie. Looked much like mine, and said the same thing. I also inquired about him, and I was told that he could be a little touchy now and then, and that Waylon would be the horse for me. He also told me that if I couldn't drive Waylon, I might as well get out of horses, and get a golf cart. I made it very clear to Jack that I needed a beginner horse, as I was a beginner driver. I was guaranteed, and told if he did work, I could send him back. Even told me if I didn't like his color he would take him back. It never worked out for me to go see the horse, because when I was free, Jack never was. I decided to go ahead and purchase him. What did I have to lose? He was guaranteed. Jack also talked me into a forecart, carriage, and harness. I spent well over $14,000, buy the time I paid for transport for the horse and the carriage.

I finally got my Waylon, who by all accounts is a gentle giant. He seemed to be perfect in everyway. Until I hooked him up for our first drive, about a week after I got him. He would not walk, or listen to his commands. I immediately called Jack, and was told I was feeding him to hot. Well, I knew at that point, that I didn't want to take him out again until after I had my professional training. Also, the harness I paid $650.00 for, and told was in excellent condition, was a piece of crap. It was cobbled together between nylon and leather, and seemed unsafe. When the carriage arrived, it had improper shafts, and no single tree. I also called him about this, and he basically denied it, and would not help me out. I had to order new shafts and a single tree on my own. I also paid to have carriage lights and blinkers installed. That never happened either. I was promised the carriage lights for months. I am still waiting.

Waylon and I went to training in February, and low and behold, my suspicions of the harness and him proved correct. The harness was completely unsafe. When we harnessed Waylon with a proper harness, and tried to ground drive him, he went nuts. He started to spin to the left and fly straight backwards. Not ever something a carriage horse should do. He would not listen to his voice commands at all. Two other carriage driver/trainers were contacted to come and work with him, and they had the same experience.

All three trainers and myself, immediately contacted Jack. He argued with us, told them they didn't know what they were doing, told them the horse had worked in NYC, told them I must have wrecked the horse, and on, and on, and on. All three drivers/trainers gave me a written statement about Waylon, and I had the horse metally evaluated while at my training. I was told that type of behavior happened years before, not recently. I was told the horse was completely unsafe, as he fly backwards, and will not listen. I was told that if I would hitch him, he would end up killing me.

We finally got Jack to agree to take the horse back in a week. I was going to leave training and drive to his place, since I was only about 400 miles away. The closer it got to taking the horse back, the more difficult he became. He said he wasn't going to be home, so I found another day, he then said the horse he wanted me to look at was at another farm. Fine I'll meet you there. He would not do that. Then he wouldn't answer emails or phone calls. Needless to say, I had to bring Waylon home.

After returning home, I started my own investigation on Jack Moore. First found out that the other horse was Waylon's brother, and teammate. No wonder he won't drive single. I also found out that he never worked in NYC. Then I found out that Jack just buys horses at auction, and turns around and sells them as commerical carriage horses, or whatever you might be looking for.

I have tried for months to get my money back. I also asked Jack for the name of the prior carriage company that owned Waylon. He refuses to give that to me. Wonder why? He told me for weeks that he would have another horse for me, but never comes through with that either. He has hung the phone up on me several times, and will never return email.

I would like to try to find out who purchased Waylon's brother. I'm sure they are experiencing the same problems. It would also be nice to try and put these boys back together, as they are very unique looking.

I put an ad on draftsforsale.com, about Jack Moore, and you can't imagine how many people responded to it (I have kept all of the emails that were generated by that ad). All with the same experience. He evens says the same things to people, even though the horses are different. He has his office girls trained very well too. I had asked where Waylon had come from, and the gal told me the lease was up with the carriage company he worked for.

After all this, I still have Waylon, who I love more than anything. He is a good boy, and does listen to voice commands when on a lead. Jack told me he was also broke to ride, which I am going to pursue with a trainer. In the interim, I spent $4500 on him, and have no commercial carriage horse. I have contacted an attorney, but everything has to be filed in SC, and I live in Iowa. I have considered calling the Attorney General in SC, but don't know if that will get me anywhere.

Hope this helps anyone considering a horse from this trader. BEWARE is all I can say!!!!!

Atlantic, Iowa

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 06/11/2008 10:00 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/jack-moore-mules-and-moore/taylors-or-greer-south-carolina/jack-moore-mules-and-moore-jack-lied-about-the-horse-he-sold-me-he-knows-nothing-about-339236. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Suggestion

I've been to Mules & Moore, too

AUTHOR: Q17 - (U.S.A.)

When I was looking for a beginner safe draft riding horse for my husband, we went up to Mules & Moore. They had advertised a Belgian mare named May who supposedly was a jousting horse and anyone could ride. My first impression of the place was that it was dirty and unsafe. Lots of junk lying around, and the pastures were crowded & muddy. May was already tacked up and waiting in the barn - that set off the red flags. I asked if she readily picked up all four feet & was told she did. Then when I tried to go around to pick up her feet, Jack yelled "What are you doing?" When I said I was picking up her feet, he told me that was a good way to get kicked, and asked why I needed to pick up all four. When I said it was traditional to pick out a horse's feet before riding, he told me I obviously knew nothing about drafts. According to him, drafts don't need their feet picked out - it all falls out naturally. Boy, I must have looked like I just fell off the turnip truck. But I went along with it, just to see what other BS he would feed me. I did ride the mare both in the barn & outside, but when I started to go up the driveway, she began shying. The girl that was watching said she must not have liked the flag that was flapping in the wind. OK - this horse was supposed to have been used in Medieval jousting, and she didn't like flags?? Later, when I tried to lead her around, I noticed Jack watching me very carefully. She was difficult to lead, and I felt like she was about to bolt. Jack then told me again that I knew nothing about drafts, and he proceeded to put the chain over her gums, and said that was how all drafts were lead. That was enough for me. Jack Moore is a shiester - I wouldn't buy a toothbrush from him. BEWARE!!!
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#2 Author of original report

Jack Moore is not telling the truth

AUTHOR: Karen - (U.S.A.)

My husband and I tried for weeks to take the horse back. In February, we were only 5 hours from Mr. Moore's place, and he had every excuse in the book why we couldn't bring Waylon back. We offered several different days, none which or worked for him. He was never willing to take the horse back. I called for months, and was always told he would have a horse for me. But after having Mr. Moore hang the phone up on me several times, and never returning repeated phone calls, I gave up trying.

My trainer would never recommend hooking Waylon up, as he backed and spinned while being ground driven. Anyone knows that the horse is a danger if he does that, and it is not wise to hitch him to a carriage. Yes, I might be a beginner driver, but I have been around horses my whole life, and know that safety always comes first. I believe a seasoned horse trainer, who is also a professional carriage driver would know first hand, that Waylon was unsafe, which he tried to explain to Mr. Moore with no avail.

Also, before I purchased Waylon, I tried to get to Mr. Moore's to see the horse, but again, he always had a reason why he was not available. Hmmmm.....see a pattern here?

I also contacted Mr. Moore, one week after having Waylon, and driving him. I instantly knew there was something wrong with him. Mr. Moore insisted I was feeding him to hot, and that once I changed feed, he would be fine. I did tell Mr. Moore, I was pleased with his disposition, but I did have concerns about his driving ability.

Waylon, is a great horse, as far as his disposition. He is extremely easy going, and listens to all of his voice commands while working with him, on the ground. That was never a dispute. The dispute is he is not a safe carriage horse, he does not drive single, and he never worked in New York City. If he did, I'm sure Mr. Moore would have gladly given us the name of the company he worked for. We asked several times, only to be told it was none of our business, or hung up on.

After all this, I am keeping Waylon, as he and I are now riding buddies. But I would still warn anyone from purchasing a horse or mule from Jack Moore. And don't call the references he gives you. I called the only 2 he gave me, and of course they are going to say good things, because they know him personally. Check out all the bull he tells you, ask for the previous owners, etc....If he can't produce what you are asking for, don't buy.
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#3 REBUTTAL Owner of company

CC:report 339236 Response to complaint By Karan

AUTHOR: Jack Moore - (U.S.A.)

In reference to complaint filed by Karan & Corey on 06/11/08 at 10am,I totally & completely refute this. This couple purchased the horse,Waylon,on 11/08/07.We did guarantee this horse,as we do all of the horses & products we sell.As everyone knows,we do stand behind our guarantee.Our guarantee is, if within the first 30 days of purchase,you are not 100% satisfied with the animal or product,we will replace it,NO Qusetions Asked.This is more than anyone else selling livestock will do. I spoke with Karen Prideaux,who purchased this horse sight unseen,a week after she bought the horse,& she was completely satisfied with him.She nor her husband had any complaints about the horse or his performance.

As for the harness she purchased,it is Amish harness,purchased in Lancaster County,Pa. The harness was nylon with leather backing,made by one one the largest Amish manufacturers in Lancaster County. As anyone who works with horses & mules,and uses alot of harness knows, Amish harness is the VERY BEST! It's ABSOLUTELY top of the line.I have sold hundreds of sets of this harness & have NEVER had a complaint prior to Karen & Corey.

I received the first complaint from Corey about the horse,Waylon, on 02/18/08;three months AFTER the date of sale.I told him to bring the horse back & I would replace him.They did not want to bring the horse back. Karen wanted us to pick him up & give her a cash refund. This was more than three months after the sale.I also told them that if they would bring the horse back;I would let my 16 yr old son,without any help from me or anyone else, hook this horse to a carriage & drive him down the road.I asked Karen & Corey on numerous occasions to bring the horse back.They have NOT done so.I spoke to their trainer personally.He told me that he had never hooked Waylon to a carriage.Also,when I spoke with their trainer in February,I told them yet again to bring the horse back & exchange him. I have also learned that they have been running an ad in "DRAFTS for SALE" Magazine on this same horse;stating that he is gentle,easy to handle,stands for the ferrier,obeys voice commands,in short;ALL of the things I said he would do at time of sale. Isn't THAT something? Now,who is the Liar? A copy of their ad is attached. I asked Karen many times to come see this horse & watch him work before she bought him.She refused,saying she did not have the time to do so.At that time,she asked for references,which I happily supplied her.She called several.One of them is an operating carriage service that had used this horse.They had no complaints. I have been buying & selling horses since 1965.I have shipped them all over the world.I'm sorry things did not work out for Karen & Cory,but we offered to go above & beyond to do whatever we possibly could.They refused. Karen failed to mention that this is the THIRD horse she has purchased & not been satisfied with.By her own admission,she's Green & a Beginner who is just learning.This horse has many years of experience.He's an EXCELLENT horse! They were NOTt ripped off in any way. They are quite simply inexperienced.Their complaint was totally false & unfounded. In her OWNwords,in her OWN ad,this horse,Waylon,does everthing he is asked to do,including obeying voice commands.He does everything I said he would do at the time of sale;according to Karen in her OWN ad . Also attached are two pics of Waylon, one being driven & one standing with a child standing on His back.He may not be a perfect horse;we never claimed that he or any of our other animals are perfect,but he was a very well broke,well behaved carriage horse at the time of sale . Jack R.Moore , Owner of Mules and Moore
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