Jeff Paul, Shawn Casey, Jim Fleck, Mentoring Of America No Limits No Excuses Internet Apprentice Program ripoff Provo Utah

Unfortunately it seems I'm not the only one that has been taken by this scam. I ALWAYS tell myself to check something out before purchasing, especially if it sounds too good to be true... but I was desperate for a way to earn money, and I didn't check them out.

In the beginning of April, I signed up for the No Limits - No excuses Internet Apprentice Program. It's a 12 month mentoring program package, where you get 12 months of coaching (1 session each month), access to a membership website and autosite builder software. I "upgraded" my package so I didn't have to have a monthly software licensing billing (of 497/mo) and would receive 5 custom money tree websites created for me, so I can instantly start to earn money, while they taught me how to do this on my own over the next 12 months.

The first call came within a couple weeks of me signing up, I missed it, but they put the call as a link on the members website. The call taught me NOTIHNG, except that I needed to purchase MORE products, which included their webhosting, a domain name (or multiple domains) and was advised to sign up for tele conference call program. The first coaching call was supposed to advise me how to do these tele conference calls, their importance, but all they said was that this is the way to make HUGE money. Record a phone call ONCE and REPLAY it over and over again and bring in the money. Which is what THEY are doing.

The call that hooked me in to this program was clearly recorded. The coaching call that I had in April, which I thought was supposed to be live, was actually a recorded call from January. I thought it was January 2005, but now I'm beginning to wonder!

After listening to the recorded coaching call, I tried going to all the links in my members back office that they said would be there. Many of them weren't and those that were DIDN'T WORK! I had to send many emails to the support desk to get them to fix things.

In the recorded call, they talked about if you want to succeed in this business, you have to change your attitude of one to accept money in your life. One thing you had to do was to quit bitching. They talked about people complaining that they weren't making any money and about things not working. And they advised that glitches happen, it's part of doing business and to bear with them.

So of course, I was patient, I was nice in my emails to support when things weren't working, even though I paid a stinking 7986.00$ UP FRONT for something that clearly wasn't working.

Being very computer literate, I wizzed through all their instructions from the first coaching call in a matter of about 2 hrs, once they finally got all their links to work. I sent them the info they requested, so they could build the money tree sites for me, as I had paid for. Then was given access to the instant money tree site builder, so i could then start building my own sites.

The site never worked. Support advised that they were upgrading the software and to be patient. After a month, the site still didn't work, and now I couldn't log in to it. So i emailed support again, was advised they were still upgrading the software. After that email, my username/password worked, but there was a message saying there were still "glitches"

I also received an email about the second coaching call, but it included NO DATES (clearly an autoresponder sent email, that wasn't set up correctly) i had to email support and then missed the call because of that. Two weeks later, they still hadn't posted in the membership back office a recording of the call, or any new "steps" for me to take to build on the program.

Also, I was receiving calls from some merchant account company wonder pay asking me to sign up. I emailed support to ask who these people are, how they got my information, and why they were contacting me.

This is how they responded: "If you wish to open a merchant account we do recommend Wonderpay we have many clients whom use there services and have been very happy with them."

Miss Nicole of Wonder pay was calling me quite frequently, and I was ABOUT to sign up with them, thinking oh how great a merchant account would be. I currently was using Pay Pal, and it might be nice to be more legitimate in the future. But thank GOD I held off. I was a bit uneasy about a 36 month binding contract with no way out. That made no sense. And they contacted me, with out my asking them to. Not good. So I left the forms unfilled out at my house and havent answered the phone again when Nicole calls.

So, it is now June, and I still don't have access to the second coaching call, the instant money tree site is STILL not working, I have yet to receive the 5 custom built money tree sites, I have learned nothing and it seems that I will continue to learn nothing and have received nothing for my UP FRONT payment of $7986.00

So I email support asking for a refund and receive this notice: "Hi Danielle,

They are currently making some improvements to the site so that is why you are not able to log in.

They hope to have it back up shortly.

We show that we have not received your instant money tree submission form for the topics of your sites you would like for us to create and post to the internet.

I have gone ahead and attached this form for your convenience. "

WHAT A JOKE! I replied back that I had given them my info a month ago for the sites and demanded a refund, to which they replied:

"We have submitted your request to our customer service department.

Please call them at 800-266-5664 and put in a verbal request with them.

Internet Moneytree Support. "

I was a bit delayed in calling support back, but did so on Tuesday, June 7. I immediately started the conversation with, "I want a full refund, or I'm contacting my credit card company and will start charge back procedures". I think this saved me, from reading other reports on this company, I'm quite lucky!

They advised they would give me my refund and were sending me a refund agreement form via fed ex and should get it on Wednesday. It didn't come until Thrusday, but hey... whats a day?

I read the agreement and it specifically states they will refund the full amount, not withhold any fund to cover shipping, handling, administrative fees, services, etc, but I must return all products. They also want me to agree that by them issuing this refund, Mentoring of America is in no way stating that these monies are not owed nor that the services were not rendered as promised.

Now that REALLY pissed me off! The only products I received was a package that they specifically stated was my FREE bonus package. In the refund agreement, it also states that if this package is opened, the materials are non-refundable. The total "value" of these FREE bonues is $7479.00, very close to what I paid for the program.

Thank GOD I never opened the packages, but I'm hesitant to send them back, because I was told they were mine to keep, even if I asked for a refund. I also don't want to sign the refund agreement because they are making inaccurate statements about the situation and specifically say this document will become binding when it contains both signatures and by signing, both parties agree to the terms within.

I am thinking instead, to send them the following letter by fax and certified mail:

"To whom it may concern,

I am deeply disturbed that you have stated in your refund agreement that you have requested a return of all products or I will not receive my refund. Because of this, I am contacting my credit card company filing a formal fraud complaint.

Per the recorded phone call that got me to join up for this joke of a program, if I requested a refund, ALL bonus items were FREE, as in were mine to keep if I requested a refund. I've included a copy of the letter that I received with the bonus package, specifically stating that it was free.

I've also included a copy of the enrollment confirmation letter that I signed. It specifically states I'm to receive the following:

12 months of coaching (1 session each month) there have been 2 calls to date. The first was a RECORDING of a call from January, and was completely out of date to what was currently going on. I received an email notification about the second call, and wasn't given a date, and missed that call, since I had to contact support to find out WHEN IT ACTUALLY was. As of June 5, it still hasn't been posted to the membership website. So I have NOT received the 2 months of coaching I should have received to date.

Software licensing monthly billing waived

Access to membership website this has been about the only thing I've had access to, but I've continually had to contact support because most of the links never worked correctly. If necessary, I can provide all support emails showing that this website rarely had what it was supposed to provide me.

Membership Kit (books, manuals, cds, dvd's ) per the sales call getting me in to this program, and the letter included when received them, these are FREE!

Autosite Builder Software My password initially didn't work and then once in, the website NEVER worked for me and was advised that the software is being fixed/upgraded and to be patient.

5 custom money tree websites I have yet to receive these. I have copies of all emails sent to support giving them the info they requested. Nothing has come of this.

To summarize, I've only received my free bonus package, 1 RECORDED coaching call, and a members site that didn't work for weeks, until I emailed support. After 2 months of waiting for you to get your act together, I've been more than patient, and this goes beyond the normal technical glitches, your company has not held up its end of the program. When requesting a refund, you send me a refund agreement letter that is then insulting by asking for materials that I should not have to return AND wanting me to state that services were rendered as promised.

I am requesting that you send me another refund agreement form for me to sign, without all the incorrect statements. I refuse to sign something that is completely false. I do NOT have to return any free products. You have already turned off my membership site, so I don't have access to that and you clearly did NOT render services as promised. If I do not receive a new refund agreement by June 17, 2005, besides the fraud charges I'm filing with my credit card company, I am also going to be contacting the FBI and notifying them of my interest in pressing criminal charges. I will also file reports with the department of consumer protection, the federal trades commission, the department of commerce and consumer affairs and the attorney generals in Wisconsin.

I am also filing a report at ripoffreport.com"

Please advise if I should take this step, if I should do anything further, or if I should just sign the refund agreement and send back my FREE bonus package to get my refund.

Danielle Oak Creek, Wisconsin
U.S.A.