Jefferson Medical College - Alumni Ray Sahelian - physicianformulas.com This self-proclaimed Guru of nutrition, Ray Saheian, is giving people false information and claims on his websites, which has been disputed by Stephen Barrett, who is the vice president of the National Council Against Health Fraud. Ray is a graduate of Jefferson Medical College Philadelphia Pennsylvania

Are there quacks out there? Certainly, however Ray Sahelian, MD is not one of them.  He is very conservative in his approach to supplementation.  The main complaint by “Paul” is that Dr. Sahelian recommends DHEA.  Has Paul read what Dr. Sahelian says about DHEA?  Obviously not.  Dr. Sahelian discourages the use of DHEA and if a person insists on taking it he recommends no more than a very low dose of 5mg per day for “occasional” use only.  I have used a few of his products but mainly I go to his web site to get an opinion on a supplement because I know he will be factual and honest in his assessment. 

He does a great deal of research.  Paul quotes Dr. Barrett a long ago retired  psychiatrist with no background in nutritional supplements.  He has a very negative web site that does nothing but bash people.  There is never a mention of the crooked drug companies.  No mention of Vioxx that gave my mother-in-law a heart attack before it was pulled from the market.  Or how about the worthless Alzheimer drug that never did anything for my father and have even to be useless in tests?

Who is “Paul”?  Is he a competitor?  A drug company plant?  I have to wonder.

Any time you see Dr Steven Barret making claims against someone its probably a good product that Big Pharma does not want you using ie good for your health and bad for their bottom line.

If you doubt this do some digging on quack watch and Dr Barret.

Don't get sucked in by the glitzy webpages warning about natural health products when the 3rd leading cause of death is doctors and pharmaceuticals.

Where are the champions of your health.

Have a look at a site like Mercola or Natural News lol

Mike

1. First things first: I consider that portions of the following statements you made on your site may contravene the tenets you set forth forbidding rumour, innuendo, or making assertions that one does not know to be true, as follows. 

1.a.) ) "Ray Sahelian - physicianformulas.com This self-proclaimed Guru of nutrition, Ray Sahelian, is giving people false information and claims on his websites..."
 
1.b.) "...shady doctors like Ray Sahelian...." 

1.c.) "Doctor, if we can call him that, Ray Sahelian..."

1.d.) "[Dr. Sahelian]...is an online DHEA peddler."

-----I believe the above remarks would qualify, under your own rules, as "innuendo."-----

2. "...which has been disputed by Stephen Barrett..."

2.a.) In my readings of various newsletters over time, I have noticed that whenever Dr. Barrett's name is mentioned, both his assertions and the validity of his support for his assertions have been uniformly deemed unacceptable by unrelated persons in unrelated newsletters on unrelated matters. 

2.b.) I have yet to read a positive comment by readers, regarding the factuality or reliability of any of his statements about anything or anyone. Not disagreement--they don't believe a word he says.

2.c.) Such comments have an unusually unified theme--that he seems invariably to demonstrate absolute rejection and bias regarding any person or institution involved in any way in integrative or functional medicine or holistic health. And that he fails to provide adequate support through his questionable choice of citations.

2.d). I read a report by Dr. Barrett some months ago. I noted that his assertions did indeed include intemperate terms of derogation, including "quackery" and "snake oil medicine." 

2.e.)  I found no evidence that he presented facts or studies sufficient to support his assertions.
However, I would expect that few if any researchers ever undertook a study of "snake oil."

2.f.) I noted that his objections in that article were based on one, very small, short-term study.

2.g.) The study was not published in a major peer-reviewed journal.

2.h.) The study did not appear to support many of the conclusions Dr. Barrett attributed to it.

3. While the site which your site named as associated with Dr. Sahelian's name may be a product merchandising site, many doctors collaborate for pay with supplement manufacturers, just as many doctors collaborate for pay with prescription drug manufacturers. Doctors even advertise drug company offerings on television, again for pay. There is nothing unusual in that. 

What I wish to discuss is what I found in one part of Dr. Sahelian's main site: www.raysahelian.com  

3.a.) In my search using the keyword "serrapeptase", one of the "hits" was to  Dr. Sahelian's main site, with the keyword added:  www.raysahelian.com/serrapeptase". 

3.b.) I found this site's information on serrapeptase  to be free of "false information," so far as my former background as a quadrilingual proofreader for scientific and technical peer-reviewed journals publications enabled me to detect.

3.c.) No information on that page indicated that it was written by a "self-proclaimed Guru" nor even that it was written by Dr. Sahelian.

3.d.) I found no evidence of advice to take or purchase any substance or product, or links to such.

3.e.) I found each assertion to be fact-oriented and concise. 

3.f.) I saw that each topic's assertions were followed by a journal citation at the end of the section.

3.g.) I noted that where advice was offered at all, it was conservative, advising caution in that not enough is yet known about this enzyme. 

3.h.) I found no advertisements, no mention of or link to any site. The only way to tell it was Dr. Ray Sahelian's paper and his home site, was by noting the http url.

4. There was no indication of inflammatory language, innuendo, or strongly-influencing comments such as your site's article and Dr. Barrett's articles have been observed to employ. 

5. My conclusions are as follows. It is unhelpful and may be misleading or deceptive to:

5.a.) rely too heavily upon only one study, or upon only one authority's views; 

5.b.) use inflammatory language and innuendo in place of facts;

5.c.) impugn anyone's professional ability or ethics on the basis of which school they attended.

5.d.) fail to take into account that all M.D. candidates must undergo essentially the same requirements of post-graduate training, internship, residency, licensing, and certification procedures--and that these requirements and standards are uniformly maintained throughout the U.S., under the American Medical Association, regardless of where an M.D. once went to school. 

6.) Yes, you "may call him that." Anyone who has an M.D. degree, and has retained the right to practice medicine without losing his license, is entitled to be called "Doctor."

7.) In summary: You have not presented sufficient facts to justify such heavy Sahelian-bashing, nor have you presented sufficient factual basis from Dr. Barrett  to justify his onus against Dr Sahelian. 

7.a.) I did present the facts of my reading Dr. Sahelian's article. And my facts trump your innuendos.

7.b.) In my younger days, we would have called what you pulled, "a cheap shot." Or McCarthyism.

7.c.) Is this your site's idea of ethical journalism, to which you normally adhere? This article does not appear to demonstrate such high standards, but I may be mistaken, since this is my first visit to your site. ###

I can personally vouchsafe Dr. Ray Sahelian, M.D. has supplements which I find very credible, forthright, honest and the quality is well above the average one may find in a drug store or on the net.

He has dedicated much time offering quality, research and shows a real concern for his clients who purchase his products.

I can attest my physical, biological well being has improved many fold as a direct result of using his supplements diligently for several years!

Often times the consumers who do not delegate time and patience to obtain results considers natural supplements bogus ...

-And there is literally thousands if not several hundred-thousand fake, dangerous and expensive supplements which do nothing but drain the wallet and create degradation of one's health.

My mental clarity and retention has improved four-fold at the age of 62 vs. 32.  I will continue to order and use Dr. Ray's supplements.  He is one of the 'few' honest suppliers of supplements which do indeed perform.  

I highly recommend his products but patience and asking him questions along with reading his weekly newsletter does open one's eyes to a true leader well ahead our times offering cutting edge quality supplements.

Thank You!


PS:  I have not received monetary gains or favors for this rebuttal. 

 

Dr Shahelian is backed up by the May Clinic. Leave him alone.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dhea/ns_patient-dhea

I am a physician (with two additional doctorate degrees related to nutrition) and am disgusted that this kind of bashing of a respected professional is allowed, tolerated, and condoned on the ripoff report site. I'd like to respond and clarify several comments / statements that are misleading, unsubstantiated, and, in my opinion, totally bogus re: both Drs. Sahelian and Barrett.
1. The report states that he (Dr. Sahelian) is ripping people off due to making false claims about nutritional products he has designed.
Dr. S is explaining the potential benefits associated with various substances based up a variety of information available to anyone. He is not making anything up as far as I can tell. He is doing his homework, pulling the available information together, digesting it, and presenting a logical, well-reasoned assessment of his opinion re: the potential benefits of a given product. This is still America I believe, sadly there are far too many who feel that they deserve to judge who's information and opinions can be heard. If people choose to purchase products that Dr. S has researched and designed that is their option and their right. I personally know thousands of people who have greatly benefited from taking the right nutritional formuations.
2. The report states that Jefferson Medical College produces shady doctors.
How pathetic is that to infer? Is there any school in the nation (or world) where one or more of their graduates has not run astray of the law or public opinion. Trying to damage Dr. S's reputation based on the school he attended is just wrong and stupid.
3. The report states that he is a DHEA peddler as though this were in some way a crime or shady thing to do.
There are thousands of physicians who believe in the benefits of DHEA and regularly recommend it to their patients. It is an over-the-counter nutritional substance that is very well-researched and very safe when used properly. For comparison sake, it is far, far safer than aspirin or tylenol. Inferring that he is a bad person for asserting his opinion that DHEA can be of benefit to some people when used appropriately is just plain ignorant.
4. The report cites Steven Barret, quackwatch, and the National Council Against Health Fraud as credible sources of unbiased or accurate information!
Barret and these organizations are misinformation fronts for Big Pharma (the drug companies that literally control the medical industry). Their information is virtually always wrong and what's worse, it is intentionally wrong and misleading. It is designed to confuse the consumer thereby causing them to take no actions to take responsibility for safeguarding their own health. Barret and his game have been exposed but people who aren't aware of this continue to believe he is some sort of an authority. As for him being a real doctor... last I heard he basically runs a laser hair removal practice and is an "expert" witness against alternative doctors. Real slimy if you ask me.
5. It infers that the American Dietetic Association is a valid source of information regarding nutritional supplementation.
The ADA is simply a joke in nutritional circles. These are some of the most backward thinking people around. How do you explain the current state of America's nutritional status under their watch if they had any idea what they were doing? It is well known and documented that just a few days on an ADA approved hospital diet is enough to cause multiple nutritional deficiencies. These are the same people who say on record that Americans don't need to and should not take nutritional supplements yet when polled, over 60% of them take one or more nutritional supplement!
6. It calls Dr. Sahelian a quack.
I've read a lot of what he has read. The guy is sharp and knows his stuff. He comes across as genuine and caring. Calling people quacks and using ridicule in general is a time-proven dis-information strategy. It is one of the primary strategies used by Big Pharma and the legion of dis-information vehicles (including ad agencies and ilk like Barret) that they employ.

I think that there is a place for something like "Ripoff Report" but it should be noted that it is very easy for it to be used to smear the wrong people and to mis-inform rather than inform the public. Sadly, most organizations like it were actually set up by various special interest groups under the guise of "helping the consumer" whereas in reality their primary function is to mis-inform.

I have nothing to say for or against Ray Sahelian, I am just wondering why this report is calling Stephen Barret a "real doctor" when he is not.

I would like to share this links:

http://www.canlyme.com/quackwatch.html


http://www.anhcampaign.org/news/quackbuster-stephen-barrett-md-loses-appeal-and-leaves-home-town


I hope Stephen Barret would also be exposed for what he really is: a fraudulent quack in his own right.

I highly suspect the person who wrote this report is involved with a company that sells a competing product to ones I have formulated. About the same week this report was filed, a similar one was placed on Wikipedia and we traced the email to a company that sells a libido formula. I formulated Passion Rx, an herbal sexual enhancer which is becoming quite popular and is probably reducing the sales of the sexual formula that is being marketed by the individual and company who wrote this report. Hence, the motivation to damage my reputation.

Unfortunately, Rip Off report dot com is not able to distinguish legitimate rip off reports from those that are placed that have no basis in fact. This limits the usefullness of this site since it is difficult for the consumer to determine which report is accurate and which is placed by competitors.

I wrote a DHEA book in 1996 that, rather than promoting DHEA in a nonchalant way, fully discussed the side effects and dangers of this over the counter hormone. I was actually criticized by the nutritional industry for taking such a cautious stance on this hormone.

Furthermore, Jefferson Medical College was established in the 1840s and is one of the most respected medical schools in the country.

For more information, see www.raysahelian.com. Also see www.raysahelian.com/dhea.html and www.raysahelian.com/quackwatch.html

There are countless opinions posted on the internet, it is up to the reader to decide which is the most reliable and honest.

I highly suspect the person who wrote this report is involved with a company that sells a competing product to ones I have formulated. About the same week this report was filed, a similar one was placed on Wikipedia and we traced the email to a company that sells a libido formula. I formulated Passion Rx, an herbal sexual enhancer which is becoming quite popular and is probably reducing the sales of the sexual formula that is being marketed by the individual and company who wrote this report. Hence, the motivation to damage my reputation.

Unfortunately, Rip Off report dot com is not able to distinguish legitimate rip off reports from those that are placed that have no basis in fact. This limits the usefullness of this site since it is difficult for the consumer to determine which report is accurate and which is placed by competitors.

I wrote a DHEA book in 1996 that, rather than promoting DHEA in a nonchalant way, fully discussed the side effects and dangers of this over the counter hormone. I was actually criticized by the nutritional industry for taking such a cautious stance on this hormone.

Furthermore, Jefferson Medical College was established in the 1840s and is one of the most respected medical schools in the country.

For more information, see www.raysahelian.com. Also see www.raysahelian.com/dhea.html and www.raysahelian.com/quackwatch.html

There are countless opinions posted on the internet, it is up to the reader to decide which is the most reliable and honest.

I highly suspect the person who wrote this report is involved with a company that sells a competing product to ones I have formulated. About the same week this report was filed, a similar one was placed on Wikipedia and we traced the email to a company that sells a libido formula. I formulated Passion Rx, an herbal sexual enhancer which is becoming quite popular and is probably reducing the sales of the sexual formula that is being marketed by the individual and company who wrote this report. Hence, the motivation to damage my reputation.

Unfortunately, Rip Off report dot com is not able to distinguish legitimate rip off reports from those that are placed that have no basis in fact. This limits the usefullness of this site since it is difficult for the consumer to determine which report is accurate and which is placed by competitors.

I wrote a DHEA book in 1996 that, rather than promoting DHEA in a nonchalant way, fully discussed the side effects and dangers of this over the counter hormone. I was actually criticized by the nutritional industry for taking such a cautious stance on this hormone.

Furthermore, Jefferson Medical College was established in the 1840s and is one of the most respected medical schools in the country.

For more information, see www.raysahelian.com. Also see www.raysahelian.com/dhea.html and www.raysahelian.com/quackwatch.html

There are countless opinions posted on the internet, it is up to the reader to decide which is the most reliable and honest.

I highly suspect the person who wrote this report is involved with a company that sells a competing product to ones I have formulated. About the same week this report was filed, a similar one was placed on Wikipedia and we traced the email to a company that sells a libido formula. I formulated Passion Rx, an herbal sexual enhancer which is becoming quite popular and is probably reducing the sales of the sexual formula that is being marketed by the individual and company who wrote this report. Hence, the motivation to damage my reputation.

Unfortunately, Rip Off report dot com is not able to distinguish legitimate rip off reports from those that are placed that have no basis in fact. This limits the usefullness of this site since it is difficult for the consumer to determine which report is accurate and which is placed by competitors.

I wrote a DHEA book in 1996 that, rather than promoting DHEA in a nonchalant way, fully discussed the side effects and dangers of this over the counter hormone. I was actually criticized by the nutritional industry for taking such a cautious stance on this hormone.

Furthermore, Jefferson Medical College was established in the 1840s and is one of the most respected medical schools in the country.

For more information, see www.raysahelian.com. Also see www.raysahelian.com/dhea.html and www.raysahelian.com/quackwatch.html

There are countless opinions posted on the internet, it is up to the reader to decide which is the most reliable and honest.

Dr. Jimmy Tayoun is employed by Thomas Jefferson University and has known mafia ties. His dad has admitted to having mafia relations (read below). He has also admitted to the possibility of his son's involvement with the mafia. Jefferson Medical College has a very poor learning environment. Organized medicine at Jefferson Hospital is a reflection of the Sicilian mafia in Philadelphia. Beware!!!

"It wouldn't be a major metropolis without political corruption. Without the sometime-hubris that brings a politician into the clutches of the federal government after the familiar ritual of wiretaps, backstabbings, confessions, and denials.


Jimmy Tayoun hides in plain sight now.


The feds got him back in 1991. He served a little over three years for racketeering, mail fraud, obstruction of justice, and tax evasion.


Free again, he was a soon enough big man in this town, a city councilman, a state rep, a mover. He ran for Congress twice. Lost twice, but the legend didn't suffer.


He's got an office where he puts together a newsletter. There are old jazzy tunes crooning on the radio right now. Like a lot of people, Jimmy Tayoun misses Sinatra.


''We hustle,'' he says about his newsletter.


Friends - old allies, old enemies - keep dropping a little ad business his way. ''We cover everything below the radar screen of the dailies - and they copy us.'' He cackles.


He first got into politics in 1968. He charged right into crowds - blacks, whites, immigrant - shaking hands, slapping backs. He liked going into the housing projects. It got so folk would just see him coming and cry his name out. Jimmy Tiiiunnn!


He says the feds had it out to get him. ''I pleaded guilty to everything,'' he says. ''I didn't have the money to fight. They wanted to indict my wife and kids. ... If I had O.J.'s money, I'd of won. I'd be mayor.''


He's behind the wheel of his car now, offering a tour of his town. Driving through neighborhoods, the windows down, slowing, waving, letting the greetings float to him.


Hey Jimmy.


Hiya Jimmy. Tayoun!


Hiya doing Jimmy.


Councilman. How you doing?


A life gone bad, but hardly gone. No sir.


He points to some men sitting in front of a small building. ''This is a mob place,'' he says. ''Hey fellas.''


Heads turn. They squint, and squint some more. Do they recognize the great Jimmy Tayoun?


''It's Tayoun, you blind bastards!''


''Oh. Hey. Jimmy. Hiya doing Jimmy.''


He starts driving away. ''They can't see anymore,'' he laments. ''They don't wear glasses. It's vanity.''


Like so many who've done time and who have connections, Jimmy Tayoun wrote a book. ''Going to Jail,'' it's titled. An outfit out of Maine published it. ''It's in libraries,'' Jimmy Tayoun softly brags. ''Criminal lawyers have bought it.''


He turns down another street, looking and waving, human voices chattering at him like insects.


Another mob hangout. Pink arms rising and lowering like weak tree limbs. ''The mob is a skeleton of what it used to be,'' he offers. ''It used to be a second culture.''


He says something dark about politics and the mob. ''The mob sold me out,'' he says, eschewing elaboration.


He talks about his old district. ''I had the entire waterfront for approximately 13 miles. I had housing projects, blue collar workers. Everybody loved me.''


He's over near Indiana and 11th now. It's a tough neighborhood. Never mind the toughness. It's a Tayoun neighborhood.


''That's a senior citizens' building. I put that in.''


You ask the name of the building to jot it down.


''I don't remember.''


He's rolling on.


Three of his six children are doctors. While he was away in prison, his wife, Delores, steadfastly stood by him.


''The feds put me away for nothing,'' he says, curving around another street corner. ''I could deliver 10,000 votes at the top of my game. Guaranteed, like clockwork.''


A prayer for Jimmy Tayoun then.


The Republicans will come and go. They will leave a city behind.


The black man says he will indeed vote in the general election, even though he believes a lot about modern politics is ''a sham.''


The black man is alive to vote, you see, because the young white man died.


Robert Welton was walking home up Wharton street one day. He could hardly breathe. Doctors told him he needed another heart.


He worked his whole life here, a city traffic agent.


He grew up near an Italian neighborhood. ''Everybody took care of each other. We didn't have race fights.''


His wife, Norma - ''my sweetie'' - nearly lost it when he was diagnosed, he says. She went through as much pain as he did.


It was Dec. 12, 1992, when the transplant happened. A 20-year-old white man had died in a car accident.


''They just don't put this in you and say go home,'' he says, pointing to his chest, the hidden heart.


One life lost. Another life reborn.


''A psychiatrist asks you, 'Why do you want to have this heart?' I said, 'I want to see my oldest grandson graduate high school and go to college.'''


The grandson's name is Dustin Berke. He's just gone off to college orientation in New York. Welton says the need to see his grandson go to college willed him through surgery. ''This is why I'm living,'' he says. ''I'm one of the lucky people that came through this life. It's not always dollars and cents. It's the peace. If I should go today, or tomorrow, I wouldn't mind. Life don't owe me nothing now.''


Robert Welton has just dropped a tear.


He swivels his head, looks up the street into the sunshine of Philly. Norma, his sweetie, should be coming on home in a little bit."




Don't forget that Jim Tayoun is the noted author of the "Going to Prison?" handbook, based on his first-hand experience:

Going to Prison? 5th Edition
by Jimmy Tayoun
Audenreed Press

Going To Prison? is a practical guide for the soon-to-be-inmate. It helps ease the transition to prison life and has been praised by inmates and prison staff alike. This essential handbook not only contains invaluable information for the new prisoner and his or her family and friends, but also for probation officers, attorneys, social workers, clergy, prison staff and administration, law and criminology students, prisoner advocates and even for the general public. Whether personally, professionally or financially - prison affects us all. ISBN: 1-879418-33-9
2002
$9.95 US
Softcover

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Jim Tayoun has peppered his six plus decades in this life with three 2-year terms in the Pennsylvania State House of Representatives, four 4-year terms on the Philadelphia City Council, 19 years as a newspaperman, while sandwiching all the above with his role as manager of his family's famed Middle East Restaurant in the historic district of Philadelphia. He received a 40-month Federal prison sentence in 1991. He considers his prison time as his fourth career, and looks to further writing as his fifth.