John Beck's Amazing Profits - John Beck Free & Clear ripoff, fraudulent, sent to collections, misrepresentation Provo Utah

Hello. Thank you for that story about Ford Tom, I really appreicate it. It gives me some insight as to how in the hell these corrupt people are able to continue in business.

I have no intention of settling. Once we have to make the move towards court, I want my chunk of flesh, and I bet you can guess where I want it from..lol.

I emailed my attorney about just filing a class action, but since it's the holiday I don't expect to hear back from him for a while. I'm trying to find out if he can handle people from outside California, and if he'd just go ahead with a class action after the 30 days have expired.

And Al, I agree with you. Settling would be in everyone's worst interest. I want each and every person on this site to be reimbursed for their initial investment, interest they were charged while Beck held onto money he essentially stole from them and punitive damages.

Alec Trueblood is my attorney, and he is a wonderful person. A true advocate of the consumer. He's not one of those As$ Holes that eats his own kind for lunch, he's cool, calm and collected and very very well educated.

He was awsome the time we had to use him for an identity theft case. The other attorney was a real jerk and tried to shake him up, and in turn tried to shake me up during the deposition, but he kept his cool, and helped me to stay calm and focused, and we ended up settling, which to me is a victory in that case.

Not in this one. I want this to be brought to the front and focused on by the media. Hopefully that will happen.

I don't let it keep me up at night, don't worry. I am not worried, because I know we're right and he's wrong, and we've got a great attorney on our side.

Everyone, please have a great 4th, and celebrate our freedom, even though some people like Beck abuse it and take advantage of people who just want to make a better life for themselves and their friends and family.

Hi Joann, Reid and all.

Original I tried getting this resolved with them in a business manner, inspite of their fraud.

They chose not to respond for some time. From there they just responded with more fraudulant solicitation. And countinued with more fraud from there.
I find no reason to contact them any more or respond to any futher BS they may provide. The last time I just told them if they wanted to talk to someone talk to my attorney and this was after my attorney told them not to contact me.

My attorney and my self feel the same that should they continue pursuit we will be happy to file a counter for damages and see them in court.

Hang in there Joann try not to let this consume you in the mean time. They try hard to provide intimidation.

Later

Thanks Al and Reid...

Hi everyone: Thank you for the tips. I'm sure you're right Al, about hiding assets. My attorney will find them, don't worry.

I'm hoping that we will be able to persue a class action, that is what I'd really like to do. I am not in this for personal gain. I would like the issue of what they claim I owe them resolved.

However, I want that same thing for every victim not just me. My attorney can have the rest. Of course, I wouldn't complain if a Judge and Jury ordered them to fork over money for punitive damages either.

I believe we all deserve to be compensated for the grief they continue to cause.

Did I mention that now their fax machine is busy 24/7? That's not exactly an honest business practice, and neither is ignoring phone calls. What great customer service eh?

My attorney is sending that letter out certified I'm sure, and it's my understanding that he will also send one to EPN, but I faxed one just in case.

As far as I know nothing has been reported to my credit but I haven't checked again. I know it sometimes takes 30 days or more for something to show up, so I'm waiting until mid July to pull another merged report. God help EPN if they reported this b.s., and especially if they didn't report it as disputed.

I wrote them and they know what happened, and I instructed them not to report, and that I was officially disputing the collection. We'll see...

Take care everyone! Hang in there. We're going to get this resolved in our favor, I just know it.

JoAnn

Hi gang:

a curious point

I just want you all to know why scam companies and sometimes major legitimate companies continue to stay in business even though they are misbehaving.

It has been argued here that John Beck and his merry sodemizers must have all this worked out in advance -or otherwize they wouldnt still be in business. They do -but not for the reasons one may think. Of course they do this to sucker us into the 'illusion' that they are right so we just eat our loss like good little suckers.

There are many many scam companies that operate like this , offer a bait and switch service that is bogus. They rip off folks and only a percentage of them will complain.

The deal is to milk as much as possible , then refund whoever complains the most. Stay out of court if possible -so that if you can believe this - according to the BBB they can say they have RESOLVED all of the disputes and have a good record !!!! CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT???

Its unbelievable , but true. They are not the first to do this -in fact there is a famous case in our countries recent history that actually proves this school of thought works.

Back in the 60s the Ford motor company designed their mustang with a design flaw. The fuel tank was situated whereas if there was a head on crash it would explode -most likely killing the occupants.

When crashes started occuring -and a percentage of the tanks exploded , Ford knew d**n well that it was their design flaw , however , for reasons that break my heart, they calculated that RECALLING ALL THE CARS WAS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN MERELY PAYING OFF THE LAWSUITS OF THE CRASHES . Ford calculated how many crashes per 100000 population and how many explosions and thus how many lawsuits and found it cheaper just to pay off the victims even though they were compeletely crimminally negligent.

One such famous lawsuit was started in 1974 -ended in 1982 with a huge award -but then was tied up again for years in appeal. Each step of the way - Fords goal was to wear down the victims families into settling out of court for less -or face the possiblity of waiting 20 years to collect the award.

This has no doubt pleased John Beck to no end -as he and other scammers realize that all they have to do is rip folks off and then those who do b***h and complain to the point of lawsuit get refunds before court. This way Beck can still stay in business and not pay punitive damages.

I guarantee you that when faced with actual threat or actual court papers -he will simply give back the monies and call it a 'resolved' complaint. It doesnt cost him anything to just give back what he stole.

As we have seen -if Beck actually is forced into court and has judgement against him -he can then just shut his doors and change the name of the company and 'reincorporate' under a different name with a 'fresh' credibility -and play his percentages game yet again. However , his prior company WILL follow him around -but he can try to 'hide' as an executor or silent partner in the new scam.

i myself would rather be poor than rip folks off like this to make a living.

So Joanne, if you have the stomach , do every american a favor , do NOT settle out of court, get a JUDGEMENT against beck -because that is damaging to his scam operation. Get the punative damages, because that is money that you didnt pay him and is direct loss to his bottom line.

Hey there Joann,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

Al is absolutely right. Go for the jugular. If nothing else, make an example of this fraudulent company. At least cripple them to the point, where continuing business would be futile.

If this should ever go to court, sue the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute for the maximum allowable, do to the malicious nature of the scam. Like the Nigerian Scam, the intent of the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute is to "clean out" their victims.

The fact that it costs each victim a different amount (maximum available credit) for the same useless crap is ABSOLUTE PROOF of their malicious intent to "clean out" their victims, thus causing them financial harm.

Not to mention their empty threats to ruin your credit, or take you to court for merely exercising your right as a consumer to dispute the billing, after it was them that have failed to live up to their end of the agreement. Extortion!

Also, not to mention their ridiculous half page, non binding/non enforceable contract, in which they've obtained through deceptive and fradulent means.

The fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute literally begged my credit card company to reverse the charges in their favor, simply on the grounds of me signing their contract. Something I have never denied doing.

As if to suggest, that I was somehow obligated to pay them for THEIR FAILURE to render the services of our agreement, just because they have it in writing.

As if to suggest, that their many victims agreed to be victimized and therefore, it's only right that they receive payment for their fraudulent activities. It's known as "contractual FRAUD." LOL!

I wish I could see the looks on the faces of these inbreeds, as they attempt to explain to the judge, that fraud is not fraud, so long as they have obtained agreements in writing. Contract or no contract, one can't receive thousands from many while providing nothing in return.

Al is also right about fraudulent businesses hiding money offshore to avoid having to pay out in the event of an unfavorable verdict. I'm sure your attorney will give you the best advice on this issue.

Until next time, take care Joann cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Dear Gang:

I have missed a lot of action. I have been away on vacation the past week.

Its finally great to see everyone is finally focusing in on a common point. Joannes stand against this imbred butt muncher.

I am the guy who had been a debt collector for 16 years. I myself was not poked up the rear by Mr Beck or his ilk -but i was ripped off by another scam company some time ago -and thats how I found this site - and Reid!!!

Reid is dead on about this Beck creep. And to be quite honest, he is again right on about that moron who thinks he can waltz in here and say he is a 'sucess' story -when we all know if he was making 10 grand a month he wouldnt be spending his nites searching ripoff reports -now would he?

I am glad to see Karlton come around. It wasnt you we were pissed off at -it was the fact you werent FOCUSED on helping the victims. I will bet you have lots of good advise when focused.

Reid, as always, wants to help the victims of these economical sodemizers. So do i -because i was a victim -and this site helped me find a way to beat them - and thats what this is really about. Ordinary folks like you and me rallying around to beat back scam companies and others who tarnish america.

Good luck on your lawsuit - your victory will be also for all those who follow. If there is any way i can help -let me know.

My advise for anyone ripped off by the imbred beck to first try my method -as it is free -then sue if necessary. Sometimes threatening to sue gets scam artists to back down before having to lay out $$$ for an attorney.

But in the end , yes, a good attorney is the best weapon -but for the love of god i have no idea how beck can possibly defend himself anyway.

Hi Joann
At least some states that have LLC, limited liability companys, does not necessarly protect individuals in side the company from being personally being sued.

You may want to check on this consideration also.

They would likely hide assets under other fronts making the forcloser on the assets, of value smaller than thought.

What value is in a boiler room of phones.

I hope the individuals behind this type of BS are the ones the court allows you to personally collect a several million from in damages and including the company assets.

Its called OPM. I hope you are able to aquire alot of theirs we all know they have created damages other than just breach.

Your attorney and yourself, needs to remember any thing goes with this group's BS. This would likely be the same in a court room. It does seem as you may have the breach of contract under control.

I will be waiting for your postings in the future. In the event I can provide help.

Our prayers will be with you and yours.

Hey there Joann,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

JOANN: Reid: Thank you for ALL of your help. I mean, you're so passionate that even after you've seemingly resolved your issue with Beck, you still come to this site and help the rest of us, and I can't tell you how much help you and every one else have given me. Thank you thank you thank you all sooooo much.

REID: I agree with you Joann. I visit this website for all the wonderful support I have received and continue to receive. It is definitely you however, that should be thanked, for finally shedding some light on the situation. Oh, and Ed Magedson as well.

JOANN: I want us ALL to benefit from this suit. I am so happy to have you all on my side, and so blessed to have the wonderful attorney that I have to help as well.

REID: Regardless of the outcome, many will benefit from the suit, by not falling for John Beck's fraudulent activities, or the many other fraudulent businesses that exist.

JOANN: I am definately going to head in the direction of a class action because I want everyone to have satisfaction and be fully reimbursed for the money they were screwed out of and for punitive damages based on all of the laws Beck and his minions broke and continue to break.

REID: That's really considerate of you, but equally as important, is saving many from all the unecessary heartache, stress, mental anguish, aggravation, etc, etc, that's associated with being a victim of this scam.

JOANN: I think going to the media once we have things rolling is the best way to go. They should be exposed for the frauds they are.

REID: Definitely. The major news media companies are really dificult to contact. Maybe local news coverage would suffice for starters. Karlton had a great idea. We should get lots of photos, or possibly even video footage to later post on this website. Thank goodness for cell phone cameras. LOL.

JOANN: Take care, and please begin to get all of your documentation together (notes, dates calls were made, names, credit card statements, credit reports, etc.) so that when the time comes we've got our ducks in a row.

See you soon.

Until next time, take care Joann cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Reid: Thank you for ALL of your help. I mean, you're so passionate that even after you've seemingly resolved your issue with Beck, you still come to this site and help the rest of us, and I can't tell you how much help you and every one else have given me. Thank you thank you thank you all sooooo much.

I want us ALL to benefit from this suit. I am so happy to have you all on my side, and so blessed to have the wonderful attorney that I have to help as well.

I am definately going to head in the direction of a class action because I want everyone to have satisfaction and be fully reimbursed for the money they were screwed out of and for punitive damages based on all of the laws Beck and his minions broke and continue to break.

I think going to the media once we have things rolling is the best way to go. They should be exposed for the frauds they are.

Take care, and please begin to get all of your documentation together (notes, dates calls were made, names, credit card statements, credit reports, etc.) so that when the time comes we've got our ducks in a row.

See you soon.

Make sure to have friends take plenty of photos of him to and from court (well outside the court)! :)

Hey there Joann,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and heatlh.

If this ever goes to court, do you think Dateline NBC, 20/20 CBS, Fox News, etc, etc, would be interested in covering the story, while we uncover the scam?

I will start emailing the media, once we have a court date and time confirmed. Or contact Rip-off Report and they will put you in contact with me.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

I'd love to have everyone at the courthouse for the trial, provided they don't attempt to settle.

I think that would be great! How funny would that be to have all the other people who've been ripped off there to watch him go down.

I'm leaning towards the class action tho. If they don't respond within the 30 day time period, that's what I'll encourage my attorney to file.

I don't think it's fair that only one person benefit from all of this. I think we all should benefit, and in doing so, protect the public from falling prey to his "mentoring programs".

I will keep every one posted every step of the way.

Hey there Michael Dagley,

If you have indeed become successful as a result of John Beck's fraudulent "mentoring" program, I'm sure that John Beck will want you to take the witness stand in his defense. Some PROOF to back up your claims would be nice. LOL!

If you are truly one of John Beck's "success stories", can actually PROVE it in court, along with the true worth of John Beck's fraudulent program, you and Becky himself have nothing to worry about now do you?

UNPROVEN "success stories" on consumer advocacy sites are MEANINGLESS! That's what PAID advertisements are for. LOL!

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

"I hope he trys to take this to court, because if he doesn't I will" I bow in your direction this is EXACTLY what needs to be done.

Let us all know when and where the case is to be heard. It would be great to have a Rip Off Report party when he receives the harvest of the bountiful crop of BS he planted.

I agree that he (John Beck) would naturally pursue the contract issue.

We never signed any contract, and according to California Law, he would have had to provide a 3 day cancellation notice, in writing right above the signatures on the contract; which he did not.

So, as far as we're concerned, he has nothing that's legal. All he has is a recording of us consenting to the charge of $13960.00 on our credit card for mentoring, which of course later we found out was a load of steamy s**+%.

In addition he's got a lot of explaining to do regarding why each person is charged according to their amount of available credit. That means they had obtained that information without my knowledge or permission.

I hope he trys to take this to court, because if he doesn't I will. We're going after him for a different reason than he could come after us tho. His recourse would more than likely be in Small Claims Court, which in California has a statutory maximum of $5000.

I don't believe any judge would enter a judgement in his favor without proof that a contract exists, and I have proof that he broke several Civil Codes and Laws in California.

He's an as$ hole, but I don't think he's stupid. If he knows that I know he broke those laws, he's not going to risk taking me to court, because then he'll be exposed.

On the other hand, if he doesn't honor the demands my attorney made, he'll be seeing me in court anyway, only he'll be on the defendants side.

I really encourage those of you who've been ripped off in California, to read my letter and write one that's similar to let him know that you've just been educated and want your money back based on the Civil Codes he's broken.

I agree that he (John Beck) would naturally pursue the contract issue.

We never signed any contract, and according to California Law, he would have had to provide a 3 day cancellation notice, in writing right above the signatures on the contract; which he did not.

So, as far as we're concerned, he has nothing that's legal. All he has is a recording of us consenting to the charge of $13960.00 on our credit card for mentoring, which of course later we found out was a load of steamy s**+%.

In addition he's got a lot of explaining to do regarding why each person is charged according to their amount of available credit. That means they had obtained that information without my knowledge or permission.

I hope he trys to take this to court, because if he doesn't I will. We're going after him for a different reason than he could come after us tho. His recourse would more than likely be in Small Claims Court, which in California has a statutory maximum of $5000.

I don't believe any judge would enter a judgement in his favor without proof that a contract exists, and I have proof that he broke several Civil Codes and Laws in California.

He's an as$ hole, but I don't think he's stupid. If he knows that I know he broke those laws, he's not going to risk taking me to court, because then he'll be exposed.

On the other hand, if he doesn't honor the demands my attorney made, he'll be seeing me in court anyway, only he'll be on the defendants side.

I really encourage those of you who've been ripped off in California, to read my letter and write one that's similar to let him know that you've just been educated and want your money back based on the Civil Codes he's broken.

I agree that he (John Beck) would naturally pursue the contract issue.

We never signed any contract, and according to California Law, he would have had to provide a 3 day cancellation notice, in writing right above the signatures on the contract; which he did not.

So, as far as we're concerned, he has nothing that's legal. All he has is a recording of us consenting to the charge of $13960.00 on our credit card for mentoring, which of course later we found out was a load of steamy s**+%.

In addition he's got a lot of explaining to do regarding why each person is charged according to their amount of available credit. That means they had obtained that information without my knowledge or permission.

I hope he trys to take this to court, because if he doesn't I will. We're going after him for a different reason than he could come after us tho. His recourse would more than likely be in Small Claims Court, which in California has a statutory maximum of $5000.

I don't believe any judge would enter a judgement in his favor without proof that a contract exists, and I have proof that he broke several Civil Codes and Laws in California.

He's an as$ hole, but I don't think he's stupid. If he knows that I know he broke those laws, he's not going to risk taking me to court, because then he'll be exposed.

On the other hand, if he doesn't honor the demands my attorney made, he'll be seeing me in court anyway, only he'll be on the defendants side.

I really encourage those of you who've been ripped off in California, to read my letter and write one that's similar to let him know that you've just been educated and want your money back based on the Civil Codes he's broken.

I agree that he (John Beck) would naturally pursue the contract issue.

We never signed any contract, and according to California Law, he would have had to provide a 3 day cancellation notice, in writing right above the signatures on the contract; which he did not.

So, as far as we're concerned, he has nothing that's legal. All he has is a recording of us consenting to the charge of $13960.00 on our credit card for mentoring, which of course later we found out was a load of steamy s**+%.

In addition he's got a lot of explaining to do regarding why each person is charged according to their amount of available credit. That means they had obtained that information without my knowledge or permission.

I hope he trys to take this to court, because if he doesn't I will. We're going after him for a different reason than he could come after us tho. His recourse would more than likely be in Small Claims Court, which in California has a statutory maximum of $5000.

I don't believe any judge would enter a judgement in his favor without proof that a contract exists, and I have proof that he broke several Civil Codes and Laws in California.

He's an as$ hole, but I don't think he's stupid. If he knows that I know he broke those laws, he's not going to risk taking me to court, because then he'll be exposed.

On the other hand, if he doesn't honor the demands my attorney made, he'll be seeing me in court anyway, only he'll be on the defendants side.

I really encourage those of you who've been ripped off in California, to read my letter and write one that's similar to let him know that you've just been educated and want your money back based on the Civil Codes he's broken.

Joann take the extra stem to mail a certified copy to EPN. A fax nor email will hold up in court have the certified signature card ready for the file. ;)

GO GET EM!

Joann take the extra stem to mail a certified copy to EPN. A fax nor email will hold up in court have the certified signature card ready for the file. ;)

GO GET EM!

Joann take the extra stem to mail a certified copy to EPN. A fax nor email will hold up in court have the certified signature card ready for the file. ;)

GO GET EM!

Joann take the extra stem to mail a certified copy to EPN. A fax nor email will hold up in court have the certified signature card ready for the file. ;)

GO GET EM!

Well, if we end up in court, which if everything goes the way it's been going with JB so far, we will, I believe that we will pave the way for others. Once case law is established, others are more than likely to follow suit (pun intended).

I had no way of knowing which civil codes and laws good ol JB and his crew violated, and my attorney does, so it was worth every penny of the $1500 it cost me for that letter. And I'm happy to share it with everyone here in hopes that it will help you all.

Once JB and MOA ignore it, which I'm confident they will, we will roll full steam ahead to the next step, and more than likely end up batteling it out in court. I'll know for sure in August.

I actually tried to fax Kindell Graham at Mentoring of America about 20 times and guess what.... the fax line is busy busy busy busy. So I emailed her to warn her to look out for the letter and to be sure to not ignor it because I was serious. So far, the email hasn't been returned. (kgraham@mentoringofamerica.com is her email by the way)

I also faxed a copy of the letter to EPN so they can't say they didn't know. I will be checking my credit reports in August as well, to see if EPN has put anything negative there. If they have, they're going to be named in the suit as well.

Now that everyone knows what civil codes have been violated (in Ca at least) I urge you all to write a letter making the same threat only perhaps you should word it something like "you know what civil codes and laws have been violated, and you want them to recall EPN and refund your money or you will persue legal action."

Good luck everyone. Mail the letter, since their fax is always busy...

Get ready for a reality check. "Do you expect any of us to believe your fabrications??" Why not you bought into it for how much? Listen the crooks got you by your greed once whoops twice and now they will try and force you into paying them. He may well be a shill. But you have to be thinking that John Beck has had to have a plan to keep his money making machine rolling along, because I doubt he wants to go to give it back or go to jail. You have to figure their next move to keep you on the hook for the contract you signed then be ready for it.

Thanks, Michael Dagley!!For pointing out your brilliance and for pointing out that the rest of us are idiots!!

None of us believe that you found these CD's to be the wealth of knowledge that you proclaim. Since you found them soooo helpful, just wait awhile and you will be contacted to be their next "success story" (as long as you have a few thousand available on your credit card) I dare you to sign up and be "coached" by these "gurus" and be sure to keep us posted if you do!! Do you expect any of us to believe your fabrications??

You are a shill and if your not--my apologies cause you are the FIRST person who has found any useful info from the CD's. Heck, since you have done so well with this--sign up to be coached---YOU'LL MAKE MILLIONS!! (NOT!!)--Keep us posted on your upcoming conquests!! You remind me of Jason--the Beck "guru" who also lectured us on our ignorance (also spelled like a 3rd grade dropout!!) If you're so happy with Beck's stuff, why are you bothering to check this site out for unhappy Beck customers????

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

NOTE TO MICHAEL DAGLEY: If you're so "successful" Michael Dagley, why are you wasting your time "searching" out reports regarding the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute which you can't explain off?

Everyone is aware that truly "successful" people do not waste time searching out reports on consumer advocacy sites just to dump on victims.

The only PROVEN "success stories" pertaining to the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute are those of victims who have recovered their money from the scam, or have not fallen for it in the first place.

I am glad that you Michael Dagley, have been able to find "success" by reading a "wealth building" Real Estate book costing you only $39.99. It's sure nice to know that there are some who consider dreaming "success."

Unfortunately, UNPROVEN "success stories" are MEANINGLESS. Now that Joann has posted the letter which will finally shed some light on the John Beck "mentoring" scam and expose their fraudulent activities, everyone may expect more and more nonsense rebuttals from the many shill puppets.

Are you blind Michael Dagley? Have you not seen the letter containing many allegations of John Beck's grossly fraudulent conduct? Are you blind as well as dumb? Care to enroll into one of my many "mentoring" programs? LOL!

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hi. Sounds to me like perhaps you didn't fit mentoring of america's profile Mr. Dagley. Perhaps you didn't have enough available credit to make it worth their while to call you and solicit you with their endless promises.

I read every page of John Becks Bullshi@ pamphlets and his cd's were full of dead links and infomercials. You must not have any previous experience purchasing real estate at all if you found his crap useful.

I don't believe you when you say you've purchased two properties, but if you actually did, it's probably because you live in a state where that may be possible.

I'm quite sure that you didn't need the info in the program to do it. Any moron can go to their county's web page and see a list of properties that they're forclosing on for delinquent property taxes.

How dare you suggest that we (the people on this site) need to learn to read and write. Sounds like you were the one who needed an education. At least we're all smart enough to know when we've been ripped off!

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

Disregard Michael Dagley's shill rebuttal. I think everyone here would agree, that Michael Dagley's unproven "success story" is nothing but a desperate attempt to shift the attention of Joann's letter to the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute elsewhere.

Michael Dagley purportedley became one of John Beck's "success stories" by simply implementing the strategies contained in John Beck's $39.99 book. Yeeeeeah, and I suppose Michael Dagley also wants us to believe that he's encountered UFO sightings and been ubducted by alien beings. LOL.

Hey Michael Dagley, would you believe that I was once the starting quarterback for the Kansas City Chiefs? Laughing hysterically!

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Shill Michael Dagley,

I think you're just a little too late to convince everyone, that John Beck's Free and Clear program/Amazing Profit's is not a scam.

In case you haven't had the opportunity to view Joann's letter yet, I have taken it upon myself to copy and paste it here for you.

I am extremely confident that Joann's attorney will have no problem proving the allegations made in his letter to the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute, as he has testimony after testimony in his favor, all sharing similar experiences. Most victims even share the exact same experience.

June 23, 2005

Mentoring of America, LLC
406 West 5050 North
Provo UT 84604

Re: JoAnn and Roderic County v. Mentoring of America LLC

Dear Mentoring of America:

This office represents Joann and Roderic County concerning their September, 2004 purchase of the Amazing Profits Real Estate Program. Your company is currently trying to collect $7246.31 from the Countys by making debt collection calls (through your related entity EPN) and by threatening to report this amount on the Countys' credit reports. As explained below, the Countys do not owe any amount, and you are not entitled to make any credit reporting as to them.

I have reviewed the history of this transaction, and find your company's conduct to be shockingly fraudulent. The following is a non-exhaustive list of the fraud:

The CD's and books from the Amazing Profits program were useless. The manuals were incomplete, the vast majority of the websites referenced were dead links, and the CD's were merely infomercials.

Mentoring of America promised the Countys that (1) they could not fail because they would be your next infomercial success story, (2) that if they invested 5-10 hours per week they would make their money back in 60-90 days, and (3) that they would make hundreds of thousands of dollars in the foreclosure market. These were false representations designed to induce the Countys to buy more useless products.

Mentoring of America solicited the Countys to use other people's money for a new real estate program by allowing Mentoring of America to charge their credit card $13,960.00. Your company told the Countys that this amount included (1) lifetime tax preparation or advice, anytime of day or night; (2) free creation of an LLC in Nevada with someone there to answer the phones anytime; and (3) a free trip to Las Vegas to see a John Beck seminar, with travel expenses paid. All of these statements were false. Mentoring of America later tried to charge the Countys additional money for every one of the above items.

Mentoring of America quoted a price to my clients of $13,960 and charged that amount on their credit card. Not coincidentally, this was the County's current credit limit at that time. I understand from my investigation that your company has been defrauding many other consumers by charging them depending on their credit limits.

My clients requested a refund, and Mentoring of America ignored their calls and letters. However, once my clients did a chargeback on their credit card, your company sent my clients email confirmation that the entire $13,960 would be refunded. Kindell Graham of your company told the Countys not to worry, that this was a total refund and that they would not be the subject of any debt collection efforts. These representations were also apparently false. As soon as it had promised a refund, in writing, your company refused return of the books and CD's, and assigned the account to your sister company debt collection agency EPN. Ms. Graham started avoiding the Countys' calls, and once when she answered one of those calls, falsely told the Countys that she would fix the mistake. She did not.

EPN is now trying to collect $7246.31 from the Countys, allegedly for the materials they tried to return and four mentoring calls. EPN now maintains that Mentoring of America didn't actually intend to refund anything, and always intended to collect the money from the Countys later. This is outrageous -- Mentoring of America's own email states otherwise. I am also shocked that your company would try to collect the unconscionable amount of $7246.31 for a total of four phone calls lasting 20 minutes each, which constituted little more than walking my clients through a website and having them write down their goals. EPN has also informed my clients that their credit reports are about to be damaged, and that Mentoring of America has instructed it to collect the debt.

In addition to the obvious fraud chronicled above, your company violated California's Home Solicitation Sales Act in wholesale fashion. The Legislature passed the Home Solicitation Sales Act in 1971 in order to protect consumers from the unfair pressures of sales which are consummated in the home. See Civil Code 1689.5 et. seq.; Weatherall Aluminum Products, Co. v. Scott, 71 Cal.App.3d 245, 249 (1977). The Act grants consumers a 3-day right to cancel such transactions. Civil Code 1689.6. The seller must disclose the 3-day right to cancel in writing, directly above the space for the consumer's signature on the contract (Civil Code 1689.7(a)(1)), and must orally disclose the 3-day right to cancel as well. Civil Code 1689.7(f). The seller must also provide a special tear-off cancellation form in duplicate that the buyer may then use to cancel the transaction. Civil Code 1689.7(b).

Your company did none of these things. Therefore, my clients have the right to cancel the transaction at any time. Civil Code 1689.7(g). Upon cancellation, your company had 10 days to refund all payments made under the contract, and had 20 days to pick up its goods. Your company did not refund all the payments, and it failed to accept the returned goods.

Accordingly, my clients may keep the goods without any obligation to pay. Civil Code 1689.7(c) and 1689.11.

It makes no difference that your sales force used the telephone to induce the Countys to enter into the agreements, and never came to their home. The Act applies to telephonic transactions where the offer is accepted at home, regardless of who initiates the telephone call. People v. Toomey, (1985) 157 Cal.App.3d 1; Weatherall Aluminum Products v. Scott, (1977) 71 Cal. App.3d 245; Janzen v. Workers' Comp. Appeals Bd, (1997) 68 Cal.Rptr.2d 260, 263; Luskin & Sons, Inc. v. Samovitz, (1985)166 Cal.App.3d 533, 536 (Although the home solicitation statute is commonly thought of as protecting consumers from the high pressures sales tactics of door-to-door solicitors, the clear, unambiguous language of the statute gives it a much broader application).

Pursuant to the Home Soliciation Sales Act, and because of the underlying fraud described above, any transactions between your company and the Countys are entirely void and unenforceable. You are also hereby put on notice that your company violated many provisions of the Consumers Legal Remedies Act at Civil Code 1770(a). The CLRA provides the prevailing consumer with injunctive relief, and attorneys fees. Moreover, you are hereby advised that if you fail to cure your violations of the CLRA within 30 days, the Countys will also be entitled to damages and punitive damages against you.

You have the opportunity to cure your violations by doing the following within 30 days:

1. Agreeing in writing to waive any alleged debt you contend the Countys owe, and recalling your debt collection agency EPN.

2. Agreeing in writing on behalf of Mentoring of America and EPN not to report any tradeline on the Countys credit reports at any time.

3. Ceasing all contact with the Countys, including by EPN.

4. Returning the Countys' payment of $39.95 for the Amazing Profits materials.

If you do not comply with this demand, the Countys will file a lawsuit against your company and EPN for fraud, violations of the Home Solicitation Sales Act, violations of the Rosenthal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and for damages and punitive damages under the Consumers Legal Remedies Act. The Countys will also consider bringing a class action to set aside all of your transactions in California during the last four years as voidable home solicitation sales, and to force you to return all monies you have obtained in those transactions.

Thank you for your consideration of the above. I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

cc: Roderic and JoAnn County

Do you understand "shockingly fraudulent" Michael Dagley? LOL. We believe you Michael Dagley! LMAO!

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

MICHAEL DAGLEY: My name is Michael Dagley.

I have read all of these reports of John Becks company scamming you people out of thousands of dollars. I paid $39.95 for his course. Thats all.

REID: We all believe you Michalel Dagley! LMAO!

MICHAEL DAGLEY: I studied and succesfully purchasd 2 tax certificates at indiana tax sale.

REID: We all believe you Michael Dagley! LMAO!

MICHAEL DAGLEY: I didn't spend thousands. Also after my initial purchase of his system, no one contacted me trying to sell mentoring systems or what have you.

REID: We all believe you Michael Dagley! LMAO!

MICHAEL DAGLEY: To me it sounds as if you people are not smart enough to read and write!!

REID: We all believe you Michael Dagley! LMAO!

MICHAEL DAGLEY: All you needed was the cd's they sent you.

REID: We all believe you Michael Dagley! LMAO!

MICHAEL DAGLEY: People will take your money if you give it to them.

REID: We all believe you Michael Dagley! LMAO!

MICHAEL DAGLEY: "Think about it"! Maybe if you people put the information you bought to use, {39.95} you wouldn't be pissin and moanin!

REID: 30 days! LMAO! Hey Michael, care to participate in one of my many "mentoring" programs? LMAO at full of $h!t, desperate shill puppet, bend over buddy, product of incest Michael Dagley.

Maybe we were all wrong about the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute all along Michael Dagley. LMAO! Please ask the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute to re send his program to us all, as we are all interested in giving it another look. LMAO!

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

I have very thick skin for this sort of stuff. No problemo.
Just make sure to have people get ready for the next wave it may not ever come but just in case it does have a fully loaded attorney ready to blast them with. ;)

Give the attorney every weapon she or he needs to use. Every scrap of evidence!

My name is Michael Dagley.

I have read all of these reports of John Becks company scamming you people out of thousands of dollars. I paid $39.95 for his course. Thats all.

I studied and succesfully purchasd 2 tax certificates at indiana tax sale. I didn't spend thousands. Also after my initial purchase of his system, no one contacted me trying to sell mentoring systems or what have you. To me it sounds as if you people are not smart enough to read and write!! All you needed was the cd's they sent you. People will take your money if you give it to them. "Think about it"! Maybe if you people put the information you bought to use, {39.95} you wouldn't be pissin and moanin!

Hey there Ethel from Hawaii,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

Always nice to hear from someone from your home state. You know how it goes. LOL! I feel I have done everything one man can do.

The fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute seems to be getting more and more brazen as time goes by. It almost seems as though there is no determining what lengths they will go to in order to stay afloat and avoid possibly having to pay back every cent they stole.

You know the saying, desperate times call for desperate measures and at this point, they may very well be digging themselves into a deeper hole, by continuing to perpetuate this silly scam.

One thing is for certain however, and that is Joann's letter will probably be seen by thousands, or perhaps even millions and this can't possibly be a good thing for any business.

Let us all pray for Joann and Laureen together with their attornies and wish them the best of luck in their endevour.

Both you and I know Ethel, that such a scam would never have gone on for this long in our beautiful state. Shame, shame, shame on all the states that ALLOW John Beck's fraudulent activities to take place.

Until next time, take care Ethel my sister from Hawaii cause I care, Aloja my Solja and God Bless.

Hey there Karlton,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

The rebuttal (containing the insults) have been posted before the rebuttal containing my apology. I promise to tone down the insults, as I realize you are doing a good a deed by coming forward and offering your moral support.

And yes, How in the world could I forget sailing? LOL.

Until next time, take care cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

I am NOT a victim of the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute, but read through this whole thread because I found it very interesting.

As an outsider, who has not lost a penny to JB, may I offer you my thoughts and opinion?

The answer to your problem(s) with the fraudulent John Beck lies in Reids' posts. Why?

Common sense tells me he's been there, done that. He was in the very same situation. He got his money back and didn't get his butt hauled into court.

Reid did all the hard work. He made all the phone calls, got all the necessary information needed, he's posted sample letters to write and to whom they should be sent to. He won. End of story.

People, use your common sense! The fraudulent John Beck is not out to lose money.... taking anyone to court = lost $$$$!

LOL you just can't help from hurling more insults. Oh well.

Not every "client" has walked away with a full refund have they?
How do you know they have all have received refunds?

Also noting the three day rite may not fit in all cases and all states.

LOL you just can't help from hurling more insults. Oh well.

Not every "client" has walked away with a full refund have they?
How do you know they have all have received refunds?

Also noting the three day rite may not fit in all cases and all states.

LOL you just can't help from hurling more insults. Oh well.

Not every "client" has walked away with a full refund have they?
How do you know they have all have received refunds?

Also noting the three day rite may not fit in all cases and all states.

Your right Reid it MAY or may not pave the way; regard of Joann's possible action.

This is the best reason in the world to provide any help that is possible, in the event Joann's legal pursuit is needed.

This does not likely make a case written in stone involving other cases that may regard different variables.

Some things are not variable that will support her case if needed.

Do we all need a attorney, not likely, some just feel it becomes needed to reduce the stress of dealing with this and prep in regard of the unknown future.

later

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

KARLTON: Well they were smart enough to take your money once so what makes you think they don't have a way to TRY and take it once more?

REID: Well, I don't think smart is really the word. Anyone without a conscience, morals or ethics could have just as easily pulled off such a scam.

It's already been proven, that humans that are a result of two closely related individuals often grow up to be less than normal. More than likely not smart like yourself oh intelligent one.

KARLTON: They MAY or MAY NOT be able too. Look simple as this they know that they have to have a way to cover their arse or every "client" would walk.

REID: Looks like everyone is doing a relatively good job walking so far.

KARLTON: Funny how your now realizing an attorney is needed.

REID: Funny how you're not realizing the significant difference in the many scam vicitims cases and Joann's case. Who's threatening who of a lawsuit? Riiiiight! We'll soon have an opportunity to see how well the toilet paper holds up in court.

KARLTON: My whole point here is that anyone who has fallen prey. Document everything, save everything and get ready for the next wave of the crooks trying to get money out of them with their contract.

REID: I think this the only usefull advice you have given people so far. Congratulations oh intelligent one. I knew you had it in you.

KARLTON: Do you really think they do not have the balls to try and take a client to court?

REID: Desperate people do stupid things all the time. There's no telling what inbreeds are capable of, because not enough research has been done to quantify the minds of such defects.

All I can say is good luck to Joann and her attorney, as the outcome of her experience will more than likely pave the way for everyone who becomes scammed by the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute from here on out.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey, this might help some of you if you'll go to nearly the bottom of my report and read my attorney's letter that he is sending out today. There are several civil codes that they violated one being directly related to the 3 day cancellation law.

They have to send out a cancellation notice...just above our signatures on the contract, which they don't. Please read it, I think it will help resolve some of this.

Hey, this might help some of you if you'll go to nearly the bottom of my report and read my attorney's letter that he is sending out today. There are several civil codes that they violated one being directly related to the 3 day cancellation law.

They have to send out a cancellation notice...just above our signatures on the contract, which they don't. Please read it, I think it will help resolve some of this.

Hey, this might help some of you if you'll go to nearly the bottom of my report and read my attorney's letter that he is sending out today. There are several civil codes that they violated one being directly related to the 3 day cancellation law.

They have to send out a cancellation notice...just above our signatures on the contract, which they don't. Please read it, I think it will help resolve some of this.

Hey, this might help some of you if you'll go to nearly the bottom of my report and read my attorney's letter that he is sending out today. There are several civil codes that they violated one being directly related to the 3 day cancellation law.

They have to send out a cancellation notice...just above our signatures on the contract, which they don't. Please read it, I think it will help resolve some of this.

Well they were smart enough to take your money once so what makes you think they don't have a way to TRY and take it once more? They MAY or MAY NOT be able too. Look simple as this they know that they have to have a way to cover their arse or every "client" would walk.

Funny how your now realizing an attorney is needed.

My whole point here is that anyone who has fallen prey. Document everything, save everything and get ready for the next wave of the crooks trying to get money out of them with their contract.

Do you really think they do not have the balls to try and take a client to court?

Hey there Chris,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

We'd better get this class action rolling soon, because according to Karlton, the John Beck Mentoring Institute is bound to get us. LOL!

According to Karlton's knowlege of consumer/contract law, or lack thereof, fraud is not fraud, so long as a contract exists. LMAO!

Until next time, take care Chris cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

P.S. Go to Joann's report to view the awesome letter written by her attorney, which had been sent to the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute and their fraudulent collection agency EPN. Maybe Joann's attorney might be interested in a separate class action? LOL.

Hey there oh intelligent one,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

KARLTON: Tell you what oh great kahuna, when the people get hauled into court and they might. Are they going to go to court and say but the credit card company said you did not have to pay? LOL! Get real!

REID: It is you oh intelligent one, that needs to get real. You worked 16 years for a collection agency without being able to comprehend "no debt to be collected on?" Exactly what would these victims get hauled in to court for? LMAO!

For the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute's failure to render the services according to an agreement? For a victim receiving every penny back, due to the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institutes failure to substantiate the billing? For their commiting of fraudulent activites amongst other crimes? Get smart!

If you honestly believe that victims will get hauled in to court for the John Beck Mentoring Institute's frauduelnt activities, you also believe that the sky turns purple each and every time one blinks their eye. LOL!

You are obviously just blowing smoke oh intelligent one, and for reasons unknown. Could it possibly be because you're an attorney? An employee of John Beck? An employee of EPN? NO no no, I got it, interested in stirring panic? Attempting to promote frivolous litigation? What could it be oh intelligent one?

KARLTON: Sure get the credit card company to reverse the charge. I never said don't do that! BUT what has happened to those who have had the credit card company reverse the charges? Well well well they start to get involved with a collections agency who may not go away so easy, then what?

REID: Then he or she simply sends the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute a letter, as well as the fraudulent collection agency known as EPN, stating that these inbreeds are to cease all contact, or face being reported to the Federal Nuisance Bureau on grounds of harassment.

Let them know, that they are not to contact you unless that is, they are interested in taking matters to court.

Then he or she once again contacts their credit card company's FRAUD DEPARTMENT notifying them of EPN's attempt to collect on a non existent debt.

KARLTON: As you say protest all the way! Get the credit card company to reverse the charges, like you said its free no attorney needed! But then what if they do not roll over oh great vodka lover?

REID: Then he or she contacts a lawyer oh intelligent one. They should not do this however, until that is, the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute finally decides to collect on the non existent debt. Why pay a lawyer $250.00 an hour for nothing?

KARLTON: You have two options. Attack or defend your choice either way, all I am saying is get ready! Know every word of the contract you signed.

REID: Why attack? We are not violent individuals here. One must always remain passive, and just dispute the charges. If the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute decides to be stupid about it, they will take you to court anyways. Don't drink so much and you won't be so beligerent.

KARLTON: Now I will let you have the last word because this is all about you and your vast 16 years of collections expertise.

REID: PROMISE? Smart thing to do, because you're making a FOOL of yourself. Why do you assume oh intelligent one, that the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institutes contract contains the many hidden "clauses" of that of a fitness gyms contract, without ever having viewed it yourself?

Oh for your information intelligent one, I have never worked for a collections agency. Get smart before I take you to court!

Until next time, take care oh intelligent one cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

I, along with hundreds of others, purchased the John Beck free and clear real estate course. By now everyone pretty much know the scam.. around $40 for the course and then however much money you tell them you can get your hands on is how much the "coach" or "mentoring program" will cost you. We were all lied to, told that you were "chosen" to represent John Beck and tell your success story on live TV. I naively agreed to the program, which cost me $6700.00. (Which only included 10, 30 min. phone calls with my coach, and a hotline you can call, when no one has an answer for anything)

As soon as I got the course, and after letting my son go over what I received, I called and tried to get my money back. I talked with a Jared Stahura on the third day after my credit card was billed, and was told that he was the manager.. and the only person above him was John Beck himself.

If you purchased the mentoring program, they do have you on a recording agreeing to the no refund policy, BUT.. In the state of Utah, you have a 3 day buyers remorse, where you should get your money back. When I told Jared this, he told me, that the day I first talked to them about purchasing the course, was when my 3 days started, so I was, of course, 1 day too late, according to them.

Needless to say.. I didn't get my money back, the 10 phone conversations led to numerous websites that tell you absolutly nothing.. and I learned nothing more that the original $40 books told me. John Beck has to be stopped. Reporting them to the better business bureau and websites like this help.

Reporting him to the Califormia Bar Association and the Utah Attourney Generals office doesn't hurt, but obviously no matter how many people complain it is NOT stopping him. If you have any information on a Class Action Lawsuit that you have already started, please contact me. In the mean time, I will be contacting many Lawyers myself trying to get one started.

I made it just to try to get to the bottom of this scam and stop John Beck

REID FROM HAWAII, Please!! Lets get to the bottom of this and get this Class Action Lawsuit on the road, and help prevent other people from being scammed like I was. (not to mention stop John Beck from profiting off this scam any longer)

Tell you what oh great kahuna, when the people get hauled into court and they might. Are they going to go to court and say but the credit card company said you did not have to pay? LOL! Get real!

Sure get the credit card company to reverse the charge. I never said don't do that! BUT what has happened to those who have had the credit card company reverse the charges? Well well well they start to get involved with a collections agency who may not go away so easy, then what?

As you say protest all the way! Get the credit card company to reverse the charges, like you said its free no attorney needed! But then what if they do not roll over oh great vodka lover?
You have two options. Attack or defend your choice either way, all I am saying is get ready! Know every word of the contract you signed.

Now I will let you have the last word because this is all about you and your vast 16 years of collections expertise.

Hey there Karlton,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

KARLTON: One more point before I am shouted down people may want to consider here. They are a scam company that breached its own agreements, YOU have the right to sue them before they sue you. The cost of filing is far less then what you were riped off for. You may want to put them in the defense position before they put you in the defense position.

REID: Sue them for what? It's a lot easier for one to dispute the charge and have their credit card company investigate the dispute and retrieve the money. This service is FREE and requires no lawyer.

No one's shouting no one down, but I can fully understand how one who posts such ridiculous things might get the impression.

KARLTON: No matter what a jury is much more sympathetic to a claimant in a matter such as this. Think about it this way, If you were sitting on a jury and a claimant came to court in either of the two following ways;

A) A company comes in with a signed contract for an intangible service that the defendant signed and refused to execute the "full program" and did not pay. The defendant knowing the services offered sounded to good to be true, perhaps even exaggerated. But went ahead executing the contract because the defendant THOUGHT they may just get lucky following the program making them rich. Plus the claimant had been attempting to collect by lawful means after the defendant refused to finish the "coaching" offered by the claimant and did not pay for the "coaching" they did receive. Yet the defendant has not paid even after a collection agency was unable to collect. What defense? Because the defendant did not get rich or get the "coaching" they thought they would get to make them rich as fast as they thought they would. All of which the claimant has documented and has some "expert proof" that the defendant did not follow the advise of the claimant so how could the claimant help the client reach their goals if the defendant did not follow all the way through by there own choice?

OR

B) The claimant comes to court with an executed contract the defendant breached in many documented ways such as the coach did not show up or call on the following dates. The defendant looks to be running a scam luring the claimant into a web of deceit. Plus the claimant may have received a refund from a credit card company and is asking for relief for the breached contract. What defense? We did not have enough coaches? The claimant refused our coaching? I doubt it because the claimant is standing here today because the defandant did not deliver!

REID: Karlton, in option A, you intentionally used excuses, I'm sorry, I meant examples like "to good to be true", and "exaggerated." It's more along the lines of deception, misrepresentation, and FRAUD.

KARLTON: If you think I am far off base that the scenario in (A) is a case the defendant is more likely to loose in court with replace the thought of "financial goals" with "weight loss" program offered by a gym who runs slick ads you signed up with and stopped going to because you did not see effective weight loss fast enough as promised in the ads. Happens all the time Gym membership contracts keep gyms in business this way. They hardly never loose in court. Yes it is more then a gym membership here but the legal concept is the same. If you sign up for a program and you drop out you best have it documented why you dropped out and it better be a good documented excuse if it gets to court. EVEN if your credit card company refunded you!

REID: Gym membership? John Beck's program is comparable to that of members walking into an empty gym. Your excuses for frivolous litigation, I'm sorry, I meat example's Karlton, are like comparing apples to computers.

KARLTON: Now take the case of (B) replace the financial goals with the coaching of a weight loss program. If you come to court and say look I saw the glossy ads for the gym I needed to get healthy fast it sounded too good to be true but I signed up based on the expert coaching offered by the gym. The gym staff never coached per the contract they assigned me a coach who was not qualified and could have hurt me nor were the facilities there for me to use on my own nor could I use the instruments because I did not know who to use them. They breached the agreement in that the coaching I signed up for was never delivered per the contract even my credit card company reversed the charge yet they sent me to collections. This case you win most of the time.

KARLTON: If you look at the contract (and I have not mind you) I bet it reads like a gym membership contract in that if you do not get the coaching (come to the gym) you will not get your membership back and your on the hook for the balance of the contract.

REID: Wrong again. The contract does not stipulate any of what you ASSUME it does??? There are no stipulations on this piece of toilet paper John Beck (attorney) considers a contract.

The contract does not stipulate the terms and conditions of the agreement, policies and procedures, etc, etc. I'll post it at a later time. For now, I'm off to get me a cup of Java. LOL.

Until next time, take care Karlton cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Karlton,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

KARLTON: One more point before I am shouted down people may want to consider here. They are a scam company that breached its own agreements, YOU have the right to sue them before they sue you. The cost of filing is far less then what you were riped off for. You may want to put them in the defense position before they put you in the defense position.

REID: Sue them for what? It's a lot easier for one to dispute the charge and have their credit card company investigate the dispute and retrieve the money. This service is FREE and requires no lawyer.

No one's shouting no one down, but I can fully understand how one who posts such ridiculous things might get the impression.

KARLTON: No matter what a jury is much more sympathetic to a claimant in a matter such as this. Think about it this way, If you were sitting on a jury and a claimant came to court in either of the two following ways;

A) A company comes in with a signed contract for an intangible service that the defendant signed and refused to execute the "full program" and did not pay. The defendant knowing the services offered sounded to good to be true, perhaps even exaggerated. But went ahead executing the contract because the defendant THOUGHT they may just get lucky following the program making them rich. Plus the claimant had been attempting to collect by lawful means after the defendant refused to finish the "coaching" offered by the claimant and did not pay for the "coaching" they did receive. Yet the defendant has not paid even after a collection agency was unable to collect. What defense? Because the defendant did not get rich or get the "coaching" they thought they would get to make them rich as fast as they thought they would. All of which the claimant has documented and has some "expert proof" that the defendant did not follow the advise of the claimant so how could the claimant help the client reach their goals if the defendant did not follow all the way through by there own choice?

OR

B) The claimant comes to court with an executed contract the defendant breached in many documented ways such as the coach did not show up or call on the following dates. The defendant looks to be running a scam luring the claimant into a web of deceit. Plus the claimant may have received a refund from a credit card company and is asking for relief for the breached contract. What defense? We did not have enough coaches? The claimant refused our coaching? I doubt it because the claimant is standing here today because the defandant did not deliver!

REID: Karlton, in option A, you intentionally used excuses, I'm sorry, I meant examples like "to good to be true", and "exaggerated." It's more along the lines of deception, misrepresentation, and FRAUD.

KARLTON: If you think I am far off base that the scenario in (A) is a case the defendant is more likely to loose in court with replace the thought of "financial goals" with "weight loss" program offered by a gym who runs slick ads you signed up with and stopped going to because you did not see effective weight loss fast enough as promised in the ads. Happens all the time Gym membership contracts keep gyms in business this way. They hardly never loose in court. Yes it is more then a gym membership here but the legal concept is the same. If you sign up for a program and you drop out you best have it documented why you dropped out and it better be a good documented excuse if it gets to court. EVEN if your credit card company refunded you!

REID: Gym membership? John Beck's program is comparable to that of members walking into an empty gym. Your excuses for frivolous litigation, I'm sorry, I meat example's Karlton, are like comparing apples to computers.

KARLTON: Now take the case of (B) replace the financial goals with the coaching of a weight loss program. If you come to court and say look I saw the glossy ads for the gym I needed to get healthy fast it sounded too good to be true but I signed up based on the expert coaching offered by the gym. The gym staff never coached per the contract they assigned me a coach who was not qualified and could have hurt me nor were the facilities there for me to use on my own nor could I use the instruments because I did not know who to use them. They breached the agreement in that the coaching I signed up for was never delivered per the contract even my credit card company reversed the charge yet they sent me to collections. This case you win most of the time.

KARLTON: If you look at the contract (and I have not mind you) I bet it reads like a gym membership contract in that if you do not get the coaching (come to the gym) you will not get your membership back and your on the hook for the balance of the contract.

REID: Wrong again. The contract does not stipulate any of what you ASSUME it does??? There are no stipulations on this piece of toilet paper John Beck (attorney) considers a contract.

The contract does not stipulate the terms and conditions of the agreement, policies and procedures, etc, etc. I'll post it at a later time. For now, I'm off to get me a cup of Java. LOL.

Until next time, take care Karlton cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Karlton,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

KARLTON: One more point before I am shouted down people may want to consider here. They are a scam company that breached its own agreements, YOU have the right to sue them before they sue you. The cost of filing is far less then what you were riped off for. You may want to put them in the defense position before they put you in the defense position.

REID: Sue them for what? It's a lot easier for one to dispute the charge and have their credit card company investigate the dispute and retrieve the money. This service is FREE and requires no lawyer.

No one's shouting no one down, but I can fully understand how one who posts such ridiculous things might get the impression.

KARLTON: No matter what a jury is much more sympathetic to a claimant in a matter such as this. Think about it this way, If you were sitting on a jury and a claimant came to court in either of the two following ways;

A) A company comes in with a signed contract for an intangible service that the defendant signed and refused to execute the "full program" and did not pay. The defendant knowing the services offered sounded to good to be true, perhaps even exaggerated. But went ahead executing the contract because the defendant THOUGHT they may just get lucky following the program making them rich. Plus the claimant had been attempting to collect by lawful means after the defendant refused to finish the "coaching" offered by the claimant and did not pay for the "coaching" they did receive. Yet the defendant has not paid even after a collection agency was unable to collect. What defense? Because the defendant did not get rich or get the "coaching" they thought they would get to make them rich as fast as they thought they would. All of which the claimant has documented and has some "expert proof" that the defendant did not follow the advise of the claimant so how could the claimant help the client reach their goals if the defendant did not follow all the way through by there own choice?

OR

B) The claimant comes to court with an executed contract the defendant breached in many documented ways such as the coach did not show up or call on the following dates. The defendant looks to be running a scam luring the claimant into a web of deceit. Plus the claimant may have received a refund from a credit card company and is asking for relief for the breached contract. What defense? We did not have enough coaches? The claimant refused our coaching? I doubt it because the claimant is standing here today because the defandant did not deliver!

REID: Karlton, in option A, you intentionally used excuses, I'm sorry, I meant examples like "to good to be true", and "exaggerated." It's more along the lines of deception, misrepresentation, and FRAUD.

KARLTON: If you think I am far off base that the scenario in (A) is a case the defendant is more likely to loose in court with replace the thought of "financial goals" with "weight loss" program offered by a gym who runs slick ads you signed up with and stopped going to because you did not see effective weight loss fast enough as promised in the ads. Happens all the time Gym membership contracts keep gyms in business this way. They hardly never loose in court. Yes it is more then a gym membership here but the legal concept is the same. If you sign up for a program and you drop out you best have it documented why you dropped out and it better be a good documented excuse if it gets to court. EVEN if your credit card company refunded you!

REID: Gym membership? John Beck's program is comparable to that of members walking into an empty gym. Your excuses for frivolous litigation, I'm sorry, I meat example's Karlton, are like comparing apples to computers.

KARLTON: Now take the case of (B) replace the financial goals with the coaching of a weight loss program. If you come to court and say look I saw the glossy ads for the gym I needed to get healthy fast it sounded too good to be true but I signed up based on the expert coaching offered by the gym. The gym staff never coached per the contract they assigned me a coach who was not qualified and could have hurt me nor were the facilities there for me to use on my own nor could I use the instruments because I did not know who to use them. They breached the agreement in that the coaching I signed up for was never delivered per the contract even my credit card company reversed the charge yet they sent me to collections. This case you win most of the time.

KARLTON: If you look at the contract (and I have not mind you) I bet it reads like a gym membership contract in that if you do not get the coaching (come to the gym) you will not get your membership back and your on the hook for the balance of the contract.

REID: Wrong again. The contract does not stipulate any of what you ASSUME it does??? There are no stipulations on this piece of toilet paper John Beck (attorney) considers a contract.

The contract does not stipulate the terms and conditions of the agreement, policies and procedures, etc, etc. I'll post it at a later time. For now, I'm off to get me a cup of Java. LOL.

Until next time, take care Karlton cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Karlton,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

KARLTON: One more point before I am shouted down people may want to consider here. They are a scam company that breached its own agreements, YOU have the right to sue them before they sue you. The cost of filing is far less then what you were riped off for. You may want to put them in the defense position before they put you in the defense position.

REID: Sue them for what? It's a lot easier for one to dispute the charge and have their credit card company investigate the dispute and retrieve the money. This service is FREE and requires no lawyer.

No one's shouting no one down, but I can fully understand how one who posts such ridiculous things might get the impression.

KARLTON: No matter what a jury is much more sympathetic to a claimant in a matter such as this. Think about it this way, If you were sitting on a jury and a claimant came to court in either of the two following ways;

A) A company comes in with a signed contract for an intangible service that the defendant signed and refused to execute the "full program" and did not pay. The defendant knowing the services offered sounded to good to be true, perhaps even exaggerated. But went ahead executing the contract because the defendant THOUGHT they may just get lucky following the program making them rich. Plus the claimant had been attempting to collect by lawful means after the defendant refused to finish the "coaching" offered by the claimant and did not pay for the "coaching" they did receive. Yet the defendant has not paid even after a collection agency was unable to collect. What defense? Because the defendant did not get rich or get the "coaching" they thought they would get to make them rich as fast as they thought they would. All of which the claimant has documented and has some "expert proof" that the defendant did not follow the advise of the claimant so how could the claimant help the client reach their goals if the defendant did not follow all the way through by there own choice?

OR

B) The claimant comes to court with an executed contract the defendant breached in many documented ways such as the coach did not show up or call on the following dates. The defendant looks to be running a scam luring the claimant into a web of deceit. Plus the claimant may have received a refund from a credit card company and is asking for relief for the breached contract. What defense? We did not have enough coaches? The claimant refused our coaching? I doubt it because the claimant is standing here today because the defandant did not deliver!

REID: Karlton, in option A, you intentionally used excuses, I'm sorry, I meant examples like "to good to be true", and "exaggerated." It's more along the lines of deception, misrepresentation, and FRAUD.

KARLTON: If you think I am far off base that the scenario in (A) is a case the defendant is more likely to loose in court with replace the thought of "financial goals" with "weight loss" program offered by a gym who runs slick ads you signed up with and stopped going to because you did not see effective weight loss fast enough as promised in the ads. Happens all the time Gym membership contracts keep gyms in business this way. They hardly never loose in court. Yes it is more then a gym membership here but the legal concept is the same. If you sign up for a program and you drop out you best have it documented why you dropped out and it better be a good documented excuse if it gets to court. EVEN if your credit card company refunded you!

REID: Gym membership? John Beck's program is comparable to that of members walking into an empty gym. Your excuses for frivolous litigation, I'm sorry, I meat example's Karlton, are like comparing apples to computers.

KARLTON: Now take the case of (B) replace the financial goals with the coaching of a weight loss program. If you come to court and say look I saw the glossy ads for the gym I needed to get healthy fast it sounded too good to be true but I signed up based on the expert coaching offered by the gym. The gym staff never coached per the contract they assigned me a coach who was not qualified and could have hurt me nor were the facilities there for me to use on my own nor could I use the instruments because I did not know who to use them. They breached the agreement in that the coaching I signed up for was never delivered per the contract even my credit card company reversed the charge yet they sent me to collections. This case you win most of the time.

KARLTON: If you look at the contract (and I have not mind you) I bet it reads like a gym membership contract in that if you do not get the coaching (come to the gym) you will not get your membership back and your on the hook for the balance of the contract.

REID: Wrong again. The contract does not stipulate any of what you ASSUME it does??? There are no stipulations on this piece of toilet paper John Beck (attorney) considers a contract.

The contract does not stipulate the terms and conditions of the agreement, policies and procedures, etc, etc. I'll post it at a later time. For now, I'm off to get me a cup of Java. LOL.

Until next time, take care Karlton cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Karlton:

Please believe that Reid and I are not trying to give you a 'hard time' . We appreciate your opinion and so do the victims. But you must admit -unless you provide something tangible to help the victims here, they are going to get frustrated and question your motives.

One final thought to consider is again to stop building your scenerios based on some kind of non existant 'credibility' that the Beck group has.

Where are all the 'satisfied' consumers ? As Becks attorney you will need to provide them.

Put yourself instead in the judges seat. In an objective way. You are on neither side. As a judge your goal will be to protect the rights of the company -and the consumer -under the context of the law. The judge alone must consider what is best in the public trust -either for the consumer or the company.

A skilled lawyer will go a long way -but there must be some kind of credibility to build it on. If there is no credibility of the company -even Johnny Cockcrane wont be able to tap dance fast enough.

The bottom line action from your post is that the company can stand its ground on the fact the consumer didnt 'see it through ' to the end of the mentoring. This is a valid point and is the only leg the company has to stand on.

However, this is under the blank ASSUMPTION again of credibility that if the consumer saw it thru the mentoring -he would MAKE THE PROMISED AMOUNT. or even something reasonable to that.

Well, where are all the scores of satisfied , completely objective consumers who saw it thru and made 10k per month? Where are they all?

Becks mentoring group has no such list -and even if they fabricate one -the comsumers team will have one tens times as long with consumer complaints.

So as a Judge, you have to weigh whether the onus is on the consumer, if he followed it thru , would have been provided reasonable service.

However, if there is no concrete evidence that following it thru leads to anything anyway on a consistent provable basis - then it is IRRELIVANT whether the consumer follows it thru -as it is obvious that following it thru is a waste of time. This is why people come to a dead stop and want their money back.

So the assertion that the consumer broke the contract cause he stopped cold -is under the fairly tale assumption yet again that THE PROGRAM WORKS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

So as a Judge , looking at it objectively , you have to come to the conclusion that there is no 'consideration of value ' regardless if the consumer does the program or not - and will award damages for the victims.

Karlton

Your last post is a good one . The scenerios presented are very well written and do have merrit.

Of course, just like Tim, they make all kinds of automatic presumptions to the credibility of the Beck mentoring group.

And again , just like Tim, the scenerios presented are one of some reasonable mentoring school with some ACTUAL credibility . Therefore it is again a lawyer 'dogfight' which should please you to no end as the lawyers get to diddle around and make all the decisions .

And of course yet again -its all about the law and lawyers in these hypothetic scenerios -and we can all 'whack off' to the tune of how fun it is to laywer.

The actual reality is that the Beck group has and had no real provable intention of offering a real service warranting thousands of dollars of fees . Their service is slight -the information free on the internet. They do NOT have scores of 'satisfied' students who can vouch that they make $10,000 bucks per month based on the fact of what the Beck mentoring program did for them. The only thing they can actually say they offer worthwhile is some 'dude' mentor who apparently is a dirth of valuable information and is avail at all hours to hold your hand. In reality it is some guy with no more real expertise in anything other than his common sense.

Any reasonable consumer with an open mind has to believe for the substantial fee being charged -the service of education being provided is going to be more than mickey mouse and unavailiable to the public for free. Is that unreasonable? No. It is reasonable to believe that the beck group must have some kind of 'inside track' due to their experience. It is NOT 'wishfull thinking' . I am sure that there are those who possess that information, but as Reid has stipulated -THOSE WHO DO ARE NOT GOING TO JUST GIVE ALL THAT AWAY TO STRANGERS SO THEY CAN MAKE 10K PER MONTH.

The consumer is not bound to figure all this out themselves. The company is bound to do what they claim they are going to do.

No, in other words, you cannot advertize something like ' pay me $1000 dollars and i will show you how to calculate square roots of numbers in seconds'!!!!

so u pay $1000 - and the company sends you a $10 calculator. A judge will say that it is NOT reasonable 'consideration of value ' to pay $1000 for a $10 calculator -and throw it out in a hurry. Call it price gouging -or false advertising -whatever u wish. The judge will not allow american citizens to be outright 'bilked' just cause of contract disclaimers and vague word play.


Your scenerios again paint pictures of credibility . You are outright wrong in this thread. This isnt a case of vague 'he said she said' technicalites over a contract. This mentoring group is so far removed from providing an actual worthwhile service warranting $1000s of dollars -that people are outraged and posting it on this site.

This site is actually for real honest to goodness no doubt about it ripoffs. There are some dubious posts -grasping at straws -etc , but this Beck mentoring service isnt one of them .

I am very sad to say that it honestly looks like again you tend to give Beck and his whores some kind of credibility based on soley the contract -and it saddens me. These people are being ripped off. The group had no intention of providing them a worthwhile service they cant get anywhere else with inside information and valuable tools that warrent the fees.

My god man - you should blow all this up Becks mentoring groups asses and convince em u can win in court -maybe the idiots will pay you $$$$$ to lose before a judge.

That would please the victims at least.

Karlton

Your last post is a good one . The scenerios presented are very well written and do have merrit.

Of course, just like Tim, they make all kinds of automatic presumptions to the credibility of the Beck mentoring group.

And again , just like Tim, the scenerios presented are one of some reasonable mentoring school with some ACTUAL credibility . Therefore it is again a lawyer 'dogfight' which should please you to no end as the lawyers get to diddle around and make all the decisions .

And of course yet again -its all about the law and lawyers in these hypothetic scenerios -and we can all 'whack off' to the tune of how fun it is to laywer.

The actual reality is that the Beck group has and had no real provable intention of offering a real service warranting thousands of dollars of fees . Their service is slight -the information free on the internet. They do NOT have scores of 'satisfied' students who can vouch that they make $10,000 bucks per month based on the fact of what the Beck mentoring program did for them. The only thing they can actually say they offer worthwhile is some 'dude' mentor who apparently is a dirth of valuable information and is avail at all hours to hold your hand. In reality it is some guy with no more real expertise in anything other than his common sense.

Any reasonable consumer with an open mind has to believe for the substantial fee being charged -the service of education being provided is going to be more than mickey mouse and unavailiable to the public for free. Is that unreasonable? No. It is reasonable to believe that the beck group must have some kind of 'inside track' due to their experience. It is NOT 'wishfull thinking' . I am sure that there are those who possess that information, but as Reid has stipulated -THOSE WHO DO ARE NOT GOING TO JUST GIVE ALL THAT AWAY TO STRANGERS SO THEY CAN MAKE 10K PER MONTH.

The consumer is not bound to figure all this out themselves. The company is bound to do what they claim they are going to do.

No, in other words, you cannot advertize something like ' pay me $1000 dollars and i will show you how to calculate square roots of numbers in seconds'!!!!

so u pay $1000 - and the company sends you a $10 calculator. A judge will say that it is NOT reasonable 'consideration of value ' to pay $1000 for a $10 calculator -and throw it out in a hurry. Call it price gouging -or false advertising -whatever u wish. The judge will not allow american citizens to be outright 'bilked' just cause of contract disclaimers and vague word play.


Your scenerios again paint pictures of credibility . You are outright wrong in this thread. This isnt a case of vague 'he said she said' technicalites over a contract. This mentoring group is so far removed from providing an actual worthwhile service warranting $1000s of dollars -that people are outraged and posting it on this site.

This site is actually for real honest to goodness no doubt about it ripoffs. There are some dubious posts -grasping at straws -etc , but this Beck mentoring service isnt one of them .

I am very sad to say that it honestly looks like again you tend to give Beck and his whores some kind of credibility based on soley the contract -and it saddens me. These people are being ripped off. The group had no intention of providing them a worthwhile service they cant get anywhere else with inside information and valuable tools that warrent the fees.

My god man - you should blow all this up Becks mentoring groups asses and convince em u can win in court -maybe the idiots will pay you $$$$$ to lose before a judge.

That would please the victims at least.

How many people do you feel your advice have helped? John Beck will take you to court? Ridiculous! I on the other hand, have been scammed by this company, have received all my money back for simply disputing the bill, which is my right as a consumer mind you, and having the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute fail miserably to substantiate the billing.

Now you expect everyone to believe that the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute is able to PROVE to a judge what they've been totally unable to throughout a credit card dispute? .....And I'm the drunkard? You really can't understand my postings? Go back and read them slooooowly.

I have posted my experience here well over a year ago, have been posting rebuttals ever since, and all of a sudden out of the clear blue sky, John Beck is going to start taking his victims to court for HIS failure to render the service of an agreement?

I don't care if someone received an A in his class or an F, I'm sure that even kindergardeners would agree that it's the most retarded thing they've heard.

CONSIDERATION: The inducement to a contract or other legal transaction; specifically: an act or forbearance or the promise thereof done or given by one party in return for the act or promise of another.

What part of "consideration" are you having difficulty comprehending? LOL. Enlighten us please.

One more point before I am shouted down people may want to consider here. They are a scam company that breached its own agreements, YOU have the right to sue them before they sue you. The cost of filing is far less then what you were riped off for. You may want to put them in the defense position before they put you in the defense position.

No matter what a jury is much more sympathetic to a claimant in a matter such as this. Think about it this way, If you were sitting on a jury and a claimant came to court in either of the two following ways;

A) A company comes in with a signed contract for an intangible service that the defendant signed and refused to execute the "full program" and did not pay. The defendant knowing the services offered sounded to good to be true, perhaps even exaggerated. But went ahead executing the contract because the defendant THOUGHT they may just get lucky following the program making them rich. Plus the claimant had been attempting to collect by lawful means after the defendant refused to finish the "coaching" offered by the claimant and did not pay for the "coaching" they did receive. Yet the defendant has not paid even after a collection agency was unable to collect. What defense? Because the defendant did not get rich or get the "coaching" they thought they would get to make them rich as fast as they thought they would. All of which the claimant has documented and has some "expert proof" that the defendant did not follow the advise of the claimant so how could the claimant help the client reach their goals if the defendant did not follow all the way through by there own choice?

OR

B) The claimant comes to court with an executed contract the defendant breached in many documented ways such as the coach did not show up or call on the following dates. The defendant looks to be running a scam luring the claimant into a web of deceit. Plus the claimant may have received a refund from a credit card company and is asking for relief for the breached contract. What defense? We did not have enough coaches? The claimant refused our coaching? I doubt it because the claimant is standing here today because the defandant did not deliver!

If you think I am far off base that the scenario in (A) is a case the defendant is more likely to loose in court with replace the thought of "financial goals" with "weight loss" program offered by a gym who runs slick ads you signed up with and stopped going to because you did not see effective weight loss fast enough as promised in the ads. Happens all the time Gym membership contracts keep gyms in business this way. They hardly never loose in court. Yes it is more then a gym membership here but the legal concept is the same. If you sign up for a program and you drop out you best have it documented why you dropped out and it better be a good documented excuse if it gets to court. EVEN if your credit card company refunded you!

Now take the case of (B) replace the financial goals with the coaching of a weight loss program. If you come to court and say look I saw the glossy ads for the gym I needed to get healthy fast it sounded too good to be true but I signed up based on the expert coaching offered by the gym. The gym staff never coached per the contract they assigned me a coach who was not qualified and could have hurt me nor were the facilities there for me to use on my own nor could I use the instruments because I did not know who to use them. They breached the agreement in that the coaching I signed up for was never delivered per the contract even my credit card company reversed the charge yet they sent me to collections. This case you win most of the time.

If you look at the contract (and I have not mind you) I bet it reads like a gym membership contract in that if you do not get the coaching (come to the gym) you will not get your membership back and your on the hook for the balance of the contract.

Hey Karlton,

When you see your name, it is your ridiculous comment, statement, opinion, etc, etc. In other words, it is a direct quote as a result of your own typing. Get it?

When you see my name, I am usually rolling on the floor, laughing at what you have to say.

Take care.

Yeah,,, with the reading skills of a third grader, one could understand why my postings would be hard to read and comprehend. Anyone who wants others to believe such ridiculous crap and fails everytime, would also find my postings a little hard to swallow. You're the only one who has ever had difficulty reading and comprehending my rebuttal. It it is you Karlton, that needs to lay of the rum. Or I'll take you to court! HA HAAAAA.

Yeah,,, with the reading skills of a third grader, one could understand why my postings would be hard to read and comprehend. Anyone who wants others to believe such ridiculous crap and fails everytime, would also find my postings a little hard to swallow. You're the only one who has ever had difficulty reading and comprehending my rebuttal. It it is you, that needs to lay of the rum.

Lay off the rum before you type. Please have a friend read back to you what you post. Its very hard to follow.

Hey there Karlton,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

KARLTON: My advise would be dispute the bills with the collection agency and credit card companies, PLUS get ready for them to try every move they can. Why because they can, until a judge laughs them out of a court of law. Remember once you are in court it can go either way, you may loose you may win.

REID: Not true. I have contacted the dispute departments of Capital One Visa, Sears Matercard, MBNA Visa, MBNA American Express and Discover.

None of these credit card companies have ever enountered such problems, in which a fraudulent company took it's victims to court upon losing a dispute and PROVED to a judge what they've been totally unable and unwilling to through the credit card dispute investigation?????

KARLTON: Make sure you have all your documents, create a paper trail, dispute every bill and hire a good attorney. They may indeed serve you and haul you into court.

REID: This is partly true. Filing documents and creating a paper trail is very important. An attorney however, should be one's absolute last resort.

When someone wins a favorable decision in a credit card dispute, the debt is erased and therefore, there remains absolutely no debt to be collected.

If John Beck decides to send this non existent debt to his fraudulent collection agency known as EPN, immediately contact your credit card company's FRAUD DEPARTMENT and notify them of this fraudulent activity.

Also notify the FBI, FTC, Attorney General in your state and the state in which John Beck is located. Let them know that you are on top of the scam.

KARLTON: Remember not all collection agencies have ethics as solid as yours. They may not just roll over knowing they have a week case.

REID: True. You are making a little more sense than Tim.

Until next time, take care Karlton cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Karlton,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

KARLTON: After reading and reading and some more reading here. Your a FOOL if you think you can "just dispute the bill" away.

REID: One would be an even bigger fool, if they decided not to dispute the bill. A fraudulent business runs the risk of losing their merchant account and having their practice exposed, if and when their product or secvice have been disputed with such frequency.

Are you or Tim willing and able to suggest something better as a first step Karlton? What exactly should the many victims of this scam do? Please elaborate.

.....but DO NOT waste your time suggesting an attorney, and definitely DO NOT waste your time suggesting that victims DO NOT dispute the bill. That's just a little dumb in my opinion.

KARLTON: In the case where the client got some money back from the credit card company bravo. But the contract survives and the debt is real unless a judge not a abettor of the law finds it is not valid, AKA in a court of law not here in our forum. This is not the peoples court. I want my Rip Off Report TV!

REID: No one on this forum ever suggested that this was a court of law, nor are using it as such. This is a consumer advocacy site, where victims post their experiences to warn others about a particular scam(s).

It's unfortunate however, that attornies use this site as a means to fish for clients and lawsuits. I myself am also waiting for Rip Off Report TV! I want to host it.

KARLTON: The attorney you two legal eagles shouted down is correct. Reid and Tom you guys are putting so much good info into this why not let an attorney (who may have received a few B grades and a A or so in law but can't spell his way out of a brief) help guide victims too? Good luck all who have been Riped OFF!

REID: I like Tim, however as Tom stated, Tim's advice were in no way useful or helpful to the many victims of the John Beck scam.

It seemed more like Tim was interested in establishing clientel by starting a trendy presedents in which fraudulent businesses take their victims to court, after it was them that breeched the agreement, which have been estabished by means of trickery, fraud, misrepresentation, etc, etc.

How well do you think this would hold up in court? Please don't answer this, because any answer might make me pi$$ in my pants laughing too hard.

KARLTON: The first report was 11/16/2004 how has your guidance worked so far for the people who have been riped off? Or are the collections still going on? The courts are backed up it may take a while to get collection cases into court.

REID: How has Tim's guidance worked so far for the people who have been riped off? For any one to suggest that victims of this scam NOT dispute the bill is incomprehensible.

KARLTON: The SCAM should be SHUT DOWN! Thank you Rip Off Report!

REID: How do you suppose this is going to happen Karlton? By the way, Dano has retired. No more Hawaii Five 0. LOL.

Until next time, take care Karlton cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

My advise would be dispute the bills with the collection agency and credit card companies, PLUS get ready for them to try every move they can. Why because they can, until a judge laughs them out of a court of law. Remember once you are in court it can go either way, you may loose you may win.

Make sure you have all your documents, create a paper trail, dispute every bill and hire a good attorney. They may indeed serve you and haul you into court.

Remember not all collection agencies have ethics as solid as yours. They may not just roll over knowing they have a week case.

Hi : I hope this finds you in good health and spirits.

I had been a credit and collection professional for the last 16 years. Not just for one client. Not just for one 'product' . Even though i am not a lawyer, i have to say that after 16 years of specifically dealing with these types of disputes -trying to collect debt, i have come to learn a great deal about how they work and what a judge does or does not generally allow.

I have seen it with my own eyes, in ACTUAL reality, not in a book, or classroom or just thru case law even.

Again, just because someone signs a 'contract' and that contract is riddled with fine print disclaimers, the disclaimers themselves cannot be made to water down the service to the point where the company or individual is not bound to offer a reasonable service for the amount of monies paid. I am sorry, but if you think you can offer a service -then bait and switch it -where the fine print says the company doesnt have to actually offer the service it advertises -the judg will NOT allow it .

In other words -the fine print itself cannot disqualify the service or water it down to the point where the money paid doesnt reasonalbly offer service for it.

As for 'wishing it away by disputing the bill'

Again , as someone who has been down this road as a professional for almost 2 decades, yes in fact you DO have to dispute the bill. What is your advise? -NOT dispute it? It doesnt mean for an instant the scam company is going to then put its tail between its legs and shut down. But it is merely the first step.

If these butt munchers find it in their hearts to come at you thru your credit bureau - then yes you have to DISPUTE it thru the big 3. Does that mean it will go away? No. But what is your advise? NOT dispute damaging credit you dont think you deserve?

It does mean that the negative credit will be frozen and not held against you until a hearing is conducted with their 'client' AKA the butt munching Beck group. It is free to dispute and so YES do so immediately.

As for demanding to see 'consideration of value' of the contract? Yes, this puts pressure on the supplier of service to prove that they provided you a service worthy of their advertising and the money you paid. Does this mean they will back out? In most cases still no , if they feel they can bully you back. But in this case, with Becks reputation and all those who have contfronted him and won, YES it might save you having to hire a lawyer and goto court to get your money back.

But in the end , yes , hiring a good lawyer is a fantastic idea. It is too bad that Tim only wanted to show us how clever he was -but offered up no tangible advise whatsoever how to ACTUALLY help the victims , nor any lawyers to contact.

Do you?

If so , please let the victims here know.

After reading and reading and some more reading here. Your a FOOL if you think you can "just dispute the bill" away. In the case where the client got some money back from the credit card company bravo. But the contract survives and the debt is real unless a judge not a abettor of the law finds it is not valid, AKA in a court of law not here in our forum. This is not the peoples court. I want my Rip Off Report TV!

The attorney you two legal eagles shouted down is correct. Reid and Tom you guys are putting so much good info into this why not let an attorney (who may have received a few B grades and a A or so in law but can't spell his way out of a brief) help guide victims too? Good luck all who have been Riped OFF!

The first report was 11/16/2004 how has your guidance worked so far for the people who have been riped off? Or are the collections still going on? The courts are backed up it may take a while to get collection cases into court.

The SCAM should be SHUT DOWN! Thank you Rip Off Report!

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

John Beck's Free and Clear Real Estate program is a scam. There is no such thing as "gurus" of any sort, "mentoring" total strangers on how to use successful "wealth building" strategies, for less than the "earning potential" claimed possible.

If you had the know how to create a $10,000.00-$15,000.00 a month income, would you market the strategies for anything less than that? To total strangers before your own family and team of inbreeds?

John Beck's fraudulent Free and Clear program, like the many other garbage programs being peddled via PAID Infomercials are just deceptive door openers. Opportunities to obtain the contact information of the many victims to later sell on their bogus "mentoring" program.

DO NOT believe any rebuttals that claim otherwise, or to be that of "success stories." Like fraudulent advertising, they are all full of $h!t.

Take it from the 60 (and rapidly accumulating) unacknowledged, unexplained and unresolved reports on this website alone, John Beck's Free and Clear program is nothing but a con.

It is no coincidence that we all experienced the same bull$h!t scenarios and some of us even encountered the same inbreeds.

Well I have received John Beck's so called Free and Clear "strategies" and I will "mentor" any and all that may be interested in using them for FREE, as I don't believe in scamming the public like these "product of incest" parasites.

1. Conduct a google search for Tax Liens.

2. Bid blindly as though you have experience and pray.

3. Practice using OPM (other people's money), which is other than the John Beck Mentoring Institutes money, which is YOUR money.

4. Consult H&R Block with all of you tax related questions, concerns, inquiries, etc, etc.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hi reid:

I hope this finds you in good health and in good spirits.

yes - i should do stand up. I get riled up quite a bit.

The reason i get so riled up is not because guys like Tim put in their 2 cents worth, its an open forum .

Its cause they turn the thread into something all about THEM -and lose site of the fact that responding to the thread is supposed to HELP the victims . Tim comes on here to show us all how 'clever' he is -but does very little to help anyone at all.

Yeah that pisses me off. Especially when his diatribes insult our common sense, aka - a contract is a contract is a contract -regardless if on the face of the deal -it is ridiculous.

However, if it were the case that the ridiculous can turn into the theatre of the absured in court -then that would give the LAYWERS much to say and control -wouldnt it?

This is probably the need for Tim to wish it were so -so he and other psuedo lawyers can feel important and controlling the situation.

I know you have been burned by beck and his mind numbing intelligence insulting 'mentoring' program.

Why doesnt beck just do this:


Beck: I will show u how to make 10,000 per month!!!

Tom and Reid: How Mr Beck?

Beck: by getting village idiots like yourselves to give me money promising to show u how to make 10,000 per month. I get rich off your money.

Tom and Reid: Gee Mr Beck , your swell -where do we sign?


Until next time Reid -god bless - and keep letting those scammers have it. This site needs you.

Hey there Tom along with Everyone else,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

Tom, you are one funny dude. LMAO. I would buy your CD in a second, should you ever decide to do stand-up. You are definitely a good advocate with a good heart.

According to Tim's narrow interpretation of consumer/contract law, John Beck is able to pursue (chase) debts that are non existent.

Believing this would be no different than believing, that someone could take another, who's incarcerated, "behind closed doors" for not carrying out the services of a contract killing (murder for hire), thus failed to render the services under an agreement.

Acording to Tim's academic knowledge of contract law and experience of our justice system, scams are not scams, and crimes are not crimes, so long as the many victims have agreed to be victimized and the criminals, regardless of the means, have obtained a written and signed agreement.

If this were the case, prostitution would be legal, if only "properly drafted" contracts were established and implemented into a hookers practice.

Great news for prostitutes I guess..... See Tim for complete details on how to properly draft such documents.

If it's clients you're interested Tim, just say so. I'm sure you've already "convinced" enough, that they may need an attorney.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT: If John Beck, a crooked attorney who's unable to simply PROVE disputes in his favor is able to ruin my credit, there's a possibility that my credit may not have been in such great standing to begin with.

Until next time, take care Tom along with Everyone else cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

I dont know what to say. You will somehow fight to the bitter end wont you? It means that much to you. You are an attorney i take it? Then stop being a self centered biotch -and then tell us all exactly how to get our money back. Stop with all the bullshit -but no real concrete answer. If you are an attorney -stop using this site to m********e about what you know or think you know about law.

WE DONT GIVE A s**t IF YOU ARE A LAWYER OR NOT OR A GARBAGE MAN OR NOT . WE WANT CONCRETE ACTUAL ANSWERS TO -GET THIS -SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

Not just be told we can or cant do this blah blah blah , spinning cirles around to end up right where we started.

You made this all about YOU Tim. This thread is about someone getting ripped off yet again from this Beck a*****e . If you are an attorney -help them with a concrete answer.

As for me -i am NOT an attorney - nor was i claiming to be one. However , unfortunately for YOU Tim - i have been a collector of debt for the last 16 years. Therefore , from where i am sitting -dont be telling anyone on here about what people can or cannot do with credit or how to nullify a contract. Collectors have been dealing with contracts for centuries and is their main job -to collect on a service or consideration -unpaid.

My travels have seen every reason to nullify a contract -thus the consumer didnt have to pay and the number one reason of all - is there was no service -aka under 'consideration of value'.

Any contract for hire or service is under consideration of value . I know for a fact it is so, especially in this case where a company contracted work or service to the consumer for renumeration and did not deliver it. Nor can they possibly claim they had any real provable prior intention of doing so as their program does not work.

You made this all about YOU Tim. Fortunately for the poor people who got ripped off - people like Reid and I might actually try to HELP them.

1)Go dispute the charges with your credit card

2)Go dispute them with all three major bureaus

Demand the Beck mentoring service provide you with proof of 'consideration of value' of the contract - or they drop it immediately and refund all monies paid.

As you have all seen with previous posts - the Beck mentoring institute will back down when faced with this.

As for you Tim - god bless you -but just because you studied law doesnt mean u know everything. I dont know everything -or much for that matter. However i DO KNOW collections and contracts pertaining to disputes regarding 'consideration of value' or whatever other title you wanna call it .

This is why i responded to this thread -cause i can ACTUALLY HELP THE VICTIMS .

This is not about me or you Tim -its about the victims. So if you wanna respond -dont bother try to defend yoursef - put your energy into using that apparent attorney brain of yours to suggest different lawyers or firms to actually help the victims here.

Hey there Tim,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

TIM: I'm not giving a picture of how I THINK the court system works. That's what you're doing.

REID: I'm not giving a picture of how I THINK the court system works. I'm giving a picture of how I work. A little common sense goes a long way. John Beck is a scam. How do I know this? Well, maybe fifty plus unacknowledged and unresolved reports on a single consumer advocacy site alone is a good start.

Now if John Beck wants to use his excuse of being a "product of incest" and take it one step further, he is more than welcome to. According to your may rebuttals Tim, John Beck has many defenses, from the minimum of searching for loopholes in contract law to the utterly ridiculous.

TIM: I, on the other hand, am giving a picture of how I KNOW the court system works.

REID: No one here is doubting your law experience, or knowledge of it. You definitely do not paint a good picture of our court system however. You paint a very corrupt picture. It almost seems like you're trying to justify laws that defy common logic.

Sure the vast majority of laws do not make sense and many laws actually work in the favor of criminals, but how many people do you suppose John Beck will actually take to court regarding the collection on his fraudulent program? NONE!

Why are we even discussing the possibility of lawsuits? The only crime that have been commited, is people have fallen victim to his fraud. Many have been threatend to have "the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute" come after them if they decided to pursue a refund. Now who's trying to "bend the law" to fit their needs?

TIM: How do I KNOW? I KNOW because I have spent the past several years of my life studying and working in the field of law.

REID: Congratulations Tim! I'm sure you've seen it all. Legitimate lawsuits to down right circus acts.

TIM: Have you ever worked for a client engaged in a complicated contract dispute? I have.

REID: Yes myself and it's really not that complicated. I disputed the charge, John Beck backed out of the dispute like the criminal that he is, and I received a chargeback for every single penny.

Now a law student is suggesting that John Beck has the right to seek compensation somewhere else? I say come and get it! LOL.

TIM: Have you ever done the research, in the books, as to what is required of a valid contract, and how a contract can be rendered invalid? I have.

REID: I'd say a breach on the part of a fraudulent company constitutes an invalid contract. But... if a judge is adamant about hearing the many stories first hand, I'm sure many would have no problem reciting theirs.

TIM: Have you ever spent almost 300 hours studying the common law of contracts? I have, and I got a B.

REID: Congratulations once again! If the laws are really as convoluted as you make them seem Tim, I wouldn't want to waste my precious time. You see Tim, I have a conscience and am not particularly interested in making money off people that have already been victimized.

TIM: Have you ever spent almost 500 hours studying the law of civil procedure? I have. And I got an A.

REID: See above.

TIM: Have you ever spent almost 300 hours studying articles II, III, and IV of the Uniform Commercial Code? I have, and I got a B+.

REID: See above.

TIM: What were your grades in those classes? Oh, you never actually studied the law? Oh, you just watch Court TV every now and therefore think you know how the law works? Oh, I'm sorry, you did some research online and found "consideration of value" and assumed that you knew what it meant and how it applied to this case. I suppose that is a far superior way to learn how the law works. I guess all that time in law school was just a big waste.

REID: I have to agree with you on this one Tim. I do watch court TV and I must admit, that some of the more high profile cases are funny as $h!t. MJ and OJS just to name a few. LOL.

Sort of proves the theory of "money is power" doesn't it? That one who has money can certainly make a mockery of our court system and some of the ridiculous laws that go with it.

TIM: Arguing with a brick wall is fun and all, but there's only so far that I can go with it. Suffice it to say that I KNOW what I'm talking about. The law IS NOT EASY. And you CANNOT figure it out on a website. And NO disputable contract claim is anywhere near as simple as you seem to think. How do I know that? BECAUSE IT'S MY JOB TO KNOW THAT. If I went to one of my partners with a memo saying "the merchant was selling a worthless product, therefore the contract is certainly invalid" I would quickly be shown the door.

REID: No one is claiming that the LAW IS EASY, but it certainly isn't as difficult as you make it out to be. It's nice having a law professional give his take on the situation from the criminal's perspective.

TIM: If it makes you feel better to think that you have a rock solid case then go with it. Just don't come crying to me when things turn out EXACTLY as I have stated. I deal with these types of cases every day. I KNOW, not THINK, that what I'm saying is correct.

REID: The fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute had my contact number for more than two years now. Could they possibly be searching for more loopholes in contract law/technicalities to get me on? LMAO.

TIM: JB is a scam. If you could easily defeat him, I would be the first person to tell you exactly how to do it. But it won't be easy, so I've tried to lay out how complicated it will be so that MAYBE you will get an inkling of what you're up against.

REID: Commendable and appreciated. It's just that you've been going about it totally wrong. This is a consumer advocacy site Tim. Your approach to the situtation gives victims the impression of one who's interested in starting a precedents to obtain clients.

TIM: Reid, if you'll read a little closer, you will see that I specifically advised AGAINST paying the bill. Now that you're not even reading my rebuttals, I'm throwing in the towel.

REID: Don't do that Tim. Law professionals shouldn't give up so easily. I am not one, but have I given up?

TIM: Let me know when this shows up on your credit report and I'll tell you where to look for legal counsel. When you do get a lawyer, let him know that there was no "consideration of value." He'll say: "oh, you have the internet, huh? Well let me tell you how the law really works."

REID: I'll definitely let you know if and when this happens Tim, and also when I've easily gotten it removed.

TIM: Then I'm sure we'll see a complaint in the lawyers category about how your lawyer didn't even know the law. There's just no convincing a layman who thinks he knows what's up, that's why lawyers cringe at clients who think they know the law.

REID: From what you've been stating all along Tim, shouldn't lawyers be happy when clients are not familiar with crooked laws? LOL.

Jut know in your heart Tim, that you've tried.

Until next time, take care Tim cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

I'm not giving a picture of how I THINK the court system works. That's what you're doing.

I, on the other hand, am giving a picture of how I KNOW the court system works.

How do I KNOW? I KNOW because I have spent the past several years of my life studying and working in the field of law.

Have you ever worked for a client engaged in a complicated contract dispute? I have.

Have you ever done the research, in the books, as to what is required of a valid contract, and how a contract can be rendered invalid? I have.

Have you ever spent almost 300 hours studying the common law of contracts? I have, and I got a B.

Have you ever spent almost 500 hours studying the law of civil procedure? I have. And I got an A.

Have you ever spent almost 300 hours studying articles II, III, and IV of the Uniform Commercial Code? I have, and I got a B+.

What were your grades in those classes? Oh, you never actually studied the law? Oh, you just watch Court TV every now and therefore think you know how the law works? Oh, I'm sorry, you did some research online and found "consideration of value" and assumed that you knew what it meant and how it applied to this case. I suppose that is a far superior way to learn how the law works. I guess all that time in law school was just a big waste.

Arguing with a brick wall is fun and all, but there's only so far that I can go with it. Suffice it to say that I KNOW what I'm talking about. The law IS NOT EASY. And you CANNOT figure it out on a website. And NO disputable contract claim is anywhere near as simple as you seem to think. How do I know that? BECAUSE IT'S MY JOB TO KNOW THAT. If I went to one of my partners with a memo saying "the merchant was selling a worthless product, therefore the contract is certainly invalid" I would quickly be shown the door.

If it makes you feel better to think that you have a rock solid case then go with it. Just don't come crying to me when things turn out EXACTLY as I have stated. I deal with these types of cases every day. I KNOW, not THINK, that what I'm saying is correct.

JB is a scam. If you could easily defeat him, I would be the first person to tell you exactly how to do it. But it won't be easy, so I've tried to lay out how complicated it will be so that MAYBE you will get an inkling of what you're up against.

Reid, if you'll read a little closer, you will see that I specifically advised AGAINST paying the bill. Now that you're not even reading my rebuttals, I'm throwing in the towel.

Let me know when this shows up on your credit report and I'll tell you where to look for legal counsel. When you do get a lawyer, let him know that there was no "consideration of value." He'll say: "oh, you have the internet, huh? Well let me tell you how the law really works."

Then I'm sure we'll see a complaint in the lawyers category about how your lawyer didn't even know the law. There's just no convincing a layman who thinks he knows what's up, that's why lawyers cringe at clients who think they know the law.

Hey there Tom along with Everyone else,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

That's really funny Tom. LMAO. Always have to do one better eh? LOL. Tim sounds like a nice fellow, however, I sometimes have to question his motives/intentions for wanting the public to believe the laws are so crooked.

It almost seems as though Tim wants the victims of the John Beck scam to believe, that he's on their side, but at the same time, wants to instill fear into them.

I may not be well versed in consumer/contract law, but I think I possess enough common sense to be able to distinguish between what's real and what's fabricated, or even flat out ridiculous.

Tim, if this is not an accurate assertion I apologize, but you have to start looking at the situtation from the many scam victims perspective.

Until next time, take care Tom along with Everyone else cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

P.S. If a company's product or service is contantly disputed, they run the risk of being investigated and possibly even losing their merchant account. With this in mind, KEEP DISPUTING THE CHARGES!

Hey there Tom along with Everyone else,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

That's really funny Tom. LMAO. Always have to do one better eh? LOL. Tim sounds like a nice fellow, however, I sometimes have to question his motives/intentions for wanting the public to believe the laws are so crooked.

It almost seems as though Tim wants the victims of the John Beck scam to believe, that he's on their side, but at the same time, wants to instill fear into them.

I may not be well versed in consumer/contract law, but I think I possess enough common sense to be able to distinguish between what's real and what's fabricated, or even flat out ridiculous.

Tim, if this is not an accurate assertion I apologize, but you have to start looking at the situtation from the many scam victims perspective.

Until next time, take care Tom along with Everyone else cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

P.S. If a company's product or service is contantly disputed, they run the risk of being investigated and possibly even losing their merchant account. With this in mind, KEEP DISPUTING THE CHARGES!

Nice Job reid
poor tim thinks this thread was written soley so that he can show us how 'clever' he is regarding contract law. He could care less about the victims nor offers up anything of value as to how we can get our money back.

your right -the most galling thing of all is that the world according to Tim is :

Beck: Yes your honor -we totally did not provide what we advertise nor had we any prior real expectation of doing so . However, we have written into the scam packaging disclaimers for it all , and the kicker is - even the small print disclaimers are so confusing -the stupid consumer has no layman expectation to what the disclaimer means or how it affects the contract! They would have to be an attorney to sort it out.

Judge: Well done Mr Beck!!! Yes , you are a scam company but you have 'covered your a*s ' in fine print . Thats good enough for me -keep milking the public dry , in fact - sign me up. Teach me how to draw up scam packaging!!!

Tim here thinks this is the way the court system actually works.


I hope this finds you in Good health and spirits bud. Keep letting them scammers have it!!!

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

TIM: Ah Reid, there is just no convincing you. You're a great person, but I would hate to have you as a client.

REID: "Convince" is such a harsh word Tim, and I strongly believe everyone would agree that the word "convince" is the very reason why the majority of us were scammed in the first place.

We were all "convinced" that the John Beck Free and Clear program was something it's not, by a bunch of genetically inbreded degenerates. Now you're trying to "convice" us that weasel Beck has a legitimate shot at reclaiming debts which ceases to exist.

You're also suggesting that we pay up on these non existent debts to avoid having our credit scores illegaly tampered with. LUDICRIOUS! You seem to be interested in starting a precedents in which businesses are able to seek out and chase non existent debts.

This would be a great thing for anyone in the law profession I'm sure, but it simply ain't gonna happen.

SCENARIO BASED ON TIM'S IDEA OF CONTRACT LAW: Gee your honor, I know that our business is conducting immoral, unethical and even flat out criminal activities, but I can assure you that our contract makes it's all good and worth while.

I don't think this would sit well in most courts.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Tom, Tim and Everyone else,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

That's pretty funny Tom! LMAO. I'm a Pitbull! You are absolutely right though Tom, contracts are two way agreements.

According to the many unacknowledged and unresolved reports regarding the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute on this website alone, it's their company that has breached the agreement, by failing to render/provide the services that have been agreed upon.

FACT 1. It is every consumers right to dispute credit card transactions for goods and services, that have not been delivered or rendered according to an agreement.

FACT 2. The onus would then be on the business to substantiate the billing and PROVE, that the product or service which has been agreed upon has been delivered or rendered according to the terms and conditions of said contract.

FACT 3. Once a consumer wins a favorable decision in any credit card dispute, the debt is immediately erased. There would remain no debt to be collected on.

FACT 4. If the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute felt as though they had a legitimate shot at recovering any monies in a courtroom, they would have already capitalized on the many opportunities.

FACT 5. If a merchant's product or service is constantly disputed, the business runs a risk of losing their merchant account.

This is perhaps the reason why the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute decides to "bite the bullet" on so many disputes. It could also be fear of possibly having their fraudulent activities both past and present exposed.

TIM: Ah Reid, there is just no convincing you. You're a great person, but I would hate to have you as a client.

REID: Convince? It's probably because your rebuttals law or not, totally defies logic in even the most feeble minded.

Your rebuttals clearly imply, that scams are not scams, so long as an agreement has been established. They also suggest, that the Nigerian Scam would be legal, if only a contact were drafted and implemented.

Your every statements clearly imply, that the means in which an agreement is established, whether it be through deception, misrepresentation, coersion, FRAUD, etc, etc, are irrelevent.

TIM: You continue to labor under the assumption that credit card companies are somehow bestowed with the authority to invalidate contracts. This is not at all the case. As I have explained earlier, the CONSTITUTION simply wouldn't allow it.

I know that you have talked to a few people about this and they have told you that the debt is erased. This is a correct answer as far as the credit card company is concerned: you no longer owe anything to your credit card company. That debt is erased.

REID: Very true. Once a victim wins a favorable decision in a credit card dispute the debt is immediately erased. There would be no debt to be collected on, therefore leaves the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute with no recourse.

TIM: But, now that you have failed to pay via credit card, you still have a valid contractual obligation to pay that you have not met.

REID: Absolutely not true. According to mutual agreement between the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute and myself/the many other victims of the scam, credit card were to be the means of payment and nothing else.

There's no back up payment plans. As I've stated many times before, the contract which is used by the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute severely lacks necessary elements to be considered legally binding and enforceable.

Even IF the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute's contract were considered legally binding and enforceable, it was them that have breached it by not providing the service which has been agreed upon.

TIM: As far as collecting from your credit card company is concerned, JB has agreed to either follow the dispute procedure or not collect from the credit card company. But that is the extent of it.

REID: Why would any business elect not to follow the dispute procedure? This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

TIM: As far as the rest of contract law goes, he is under no duty to cooperate in your endeavor to dispute his charges with a non-legal entity.

REID: I believe that everyone would agree, that this is along the same lines as your previous excuse filled statement.

TIM: If you stop payment on a check, the creditor is in no way limited to collecting on that check, and the fact that your bank authorized the stop payment has no effect on the underlying debt. This situation is no different. You took steps to defeat payment, he is under no duty to challenge you. And his failure to challenge you has ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on the underlying contract.

REID: This is where you are wrong Tim. That is one of the primary benefits of paying with a credit card. Unlike paying with a check, where one has absolutely no protection against such fraudulent acts, paying with a credit card and being able to dispute any questionable transactions insures cardholders some degree of protection from such scams.

You are right though Tim, when stating that John Beck is under no duty to challenge me. He get's no money from me however.

TIM: Your whole theory runs absolutley counter to the common law of contracts, to the payment collection sections of the Uniform Commercial Code, and to American jurisprudence in general. Does a judge want to sit and hear cases that could have been decided by a machine down at American Express? No. Does he have a choice? NO!

REID: What does any of these items have to do with anything? You are making the situtation harder than it really is. It's really only a matter of John Beck failing to render the services, in which has been agreed upon, thus breaching the terms.

TIM: You are twisting the law to fit your mold, but what you are ending up with is something that looks nothing like what the law actually is.

REID: Definitely not true. As a matter of fact the exact opposite holds true. It is fraudulent businesses that search out loopholes in consumer/contract law which would enable them to peddle their garbage by means of deception, misrepresentation, coersion, FRAUD and various other criminal activities.

TIM: The danger in this is that people may feel content that, once they receive a favorable answer from the credit card company, that they no longer owe any money. That may be a great feeling, until your credit score plunges.

REID: So what exactly are you suggesting Tim? That victims just pay what "result of incest" Beck claims they owe him to salvage their credit? LOL.

TIM: Then what are you going to do? Call your credit card company and ask them why this debt is showing up on your credit report?

REID: A resounding YES.

TIM: They will tell you that they are not the creditor, so they know nothing about it and can do nothing about it. Are you going to call the FTC and ask them what to do?

REID: Another resounding YES.

TIM: I'll tell you exaclty what they are going to tell you: "we are a law enforcement agency, this is a civil matter, you need a lawyer!"

REID: Trust me, the FTC will not say this. They may however, explain that they do not assist nor represent an individual in court, etc, etc.

A lawyer should be ones absolute last resort and the furthest from ones mind. I have contacted the FTC, the Attorney General in many states, the FBI and filed reports with each and every one of these organizations.

TIM: And what's your lawyer going to do? Well, he will do everything in his power to resolve it easily, without going to court. But if that doesn't work, you're going to have to go to court.

REID: I have disputed the charge, received a charge back and have no intention on paying the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute a dime. If done correctly, each and every victim of the John Beck scam from here on out should have no problem doing the same.

TIM: The great thing, Reid, is that we can both be right, but the end result will be exactly the same: the consumer will have to go in front of a judge to have the debt erased.

REID: Not true. There is absolutely no need for attornies, judges, jury, etc, etc, in this case.

TIM: You culd try contacting the credit reporting agency and telling them about how you won a credit card dispute and so this debt is invalid. They will ask you if you have something showing that a judgment has been entered in your favor. You'll tell them "no, this person on the internet told me that the debt was invalid because the credit card company said so." They'll tell you "sorry, we need a court document."

REID: Tim, what part of "there is no debt to be collected" do you not comprehend? There remains no debt to be validated.

TIM: As I've said, I've already ran this past several practicing attorneys and legal professors. Today I have a conference with a judge, and I'll run it past him. I'll let you knwo what he says.

REID: It doesn't matter how many law professionals you speak with, or how many laws you post Tim, the John Beck Mentoring Institute is a scam and no piece of paper containing no stipulations, disclaimers, or fine print is going to change this fact. We appreciate your concern however.

Until next time, take care Tom, Tim and Everyone else cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Tom, Tim and Everyone else,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

That's pretty funny Tom! LMAO. I'm a Pitbull! You are absolutely right though Tom, contracts are two way agreements.

According to the many unacknowledged and unresolved reports regarding the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute on this website alone, it's their company that has breached the agreement, by failing to render/provide the services that have been agreed upon.

FACT 1. It is every consumers right to dispute credit card transactions for goods and services, that have not been delivered or rendered according to an agreement.

FACT 2. The onus would then be on the business to substantiate the billing and PROVE, that the product or service which has been agreed upon has been delivered or rendered according to the terms and conditions of said contract.

FACT 3. Once a consumer wins a favorable decision in any credit card dispute, the debt is immediately erased. There would remain no debt to be collected on.

FACT 4. If the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute felt as though they had a legitimate shot at recovering any monies in a courtroom, they would have already capitalized on the many opportunities.

FACT 5. If a merchant's product or service is constantly disputed, the business runs a risk of losing their merchant account.

This is perhaps the reason why the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute decides to "bite the bullet" on so many disputes. It could also be fear of possibly having their fraudulent activities both past and present exposed.

TIM: Ah Reid, there is just no convincing you. You're a great person, but I would hate to have you as a client.

REID: Convince? It's probably because your rebuttals law or not, totally defies logic in even the most feeble minded.

Your rebuttals clearly imply, that scams are not scams, so long as an agreement has been established. They also suggest, that the Nigerian Scam would be legal, if only a contact were drafted and implemented.

Your every statements clearly imply, that the means in which an agreement is established, whether it be through deception, misrepresentation, coersion, FRAUD, etc, etc, are irrelevent.

TIM: You continue to labor under the assumption that credit card companies are somehow bestowed with the authority to invalidate contracts. This is not at all the case. As I have explained earlier, the CONSTITUTION simply wouldn't allow it.

I know that you have talked to a few people about this and they have told you that the debt is erased. This is a correct answer as far as the credit card company is concerned: you no longer owe anything to your credit card company. That debt is erased.

REID: Very true. Once a victim wins a favorable decision in a credit card dispute the debt is immediately erased. There would be no debt to be collected on, therefore leaves the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute with no recourse.

TIM: But, now that you have failed to pay via credit card, you still have a valid contractual obligation to pay that you have not met.

REID: Absolutely not true. According to mutual agreement between the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute and myself/the many other victims of the scam, credit card were to be the means of payment and nothing else.

There's no back up payment plans. As I've stated many times before, the contract which is used by the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute severely lacks necessary elements to be considered legally binding and enforceable.

Even IF the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute's contract were considered legally binding and enforceable, it was them that have breached it by not providing the service which has been agreed upon.

TIM: As far as collecting from your credit card company is concerned, JB has agreed to either follow the dispute procedure or not collect from the credit card company. But that is the extent of it.

REID: Why would any business elect not to follow the dispute procedure? This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

TIM: As far as the rest of contract law goes, he is under no duty to cooperate in your endeavor to dispute his charges with a non-legal entity.

REID: I believe that everyone would agree, that this is along the same lines as your previous excuse filled statement.

TIM: If you stop payment on a check, the creditor is in no way limited to collecting on that check, and the fact that your bank authorized the stop payment has no effect on the underlying debt. This situation is no different. You took steps to defeat payment, he is under no duty to challenge you. And his failure to challenge you has ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on the underlying contract.

REID: This is where you are wrong Tim. That is one of the primary benefits of paying with a credit card. Unlike paying with a check, where one has absolutely no protection against such fraudulent acts, paying with a credit card and being able to dispute any questionable transactions insures cardholders some degree of protection from such scams.

You are right though Tim, when stating that John Beck is under no duty to challenge me. He get's no money from me however.

TIM: Your whole theory runs absolutley counter to the common law of contracts, to the payment collection sections of the Uniform Commercial Code, and to American jurisprudence in general. Does a judge want to sit and hear cases that could have been decided by a machine down at American Express? No. Does he have a choice? NO!

REID: What does any of these items have to do with anything? You are making the situtation harder than it really is. It's really only a matter of John Beck failing to render the services, in which has been agreed upon, thus breaching the terms.

TIM: You are twisting the law to fit your mold, but what you are ending up with is something that looks nothing like what the law actually is.

REID: Definitely not true. As a matter of fact the exact opposite holds true. It is fraudulent businesses that search out loopholes in consumer/contract law which would enable them to peddle their garbage by means of deception, misrepresentation, coersion, FRAUD and various other criminal activities.

TIM: The danger in this is that people may feel content that, once they receive a favorable answer from the credit card company, that they no longer owe any money. That may be a great feeling, until your credit score plunges.

REID: So what exactly are you suggesting Tim? That victims just pay what "result of incest" Beck claims they owe him to salvage their credit? LOL.

TIM: Then what are you going to do? Call your credit card company and ask them why this debt is showing up on your credit report?

REID: A resounding YES.

TIM: They will tell you that they are not the creditor, so they know nothing about it and can do nothing about it. Are you going to call the FTC and ask them what to do?

REID: Another resounding YES.

TIM: I'll tell you exaclty what they are going to tell you: "we are a law enforcement agency, this is a civil matter, you need a lawyer!"

REID: Trust me, the FTC will not say this. They may however, explain that they do not assist nor represent an individual in court, etc, etc.

A lawyer should be ones absolute last resort and the furthest from ones mind. I have contacted the FTC, the Attorney General in many states, the FBI and filed reports with each and every one of these organizations.

TIM: And what's your lawyer going to do? Well, he will do everything in his power to resolve it easily, without going to court. But if that doesn't work, you're going to have to go to court.

REID: I have disputed the charge, received a charge back and have no intention on paying the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute a dime. If done correctly, each and every victim of the John Beck scam from here on out should have no problem doing the same.

TIM: The great thing, Reid, is that we can both be right, but the end result will be exactly the same: the consumer will have to go in front of a judge to have the debt erased.

REID: Not true. There is absolutely no need for attornies, judges, jury, etc, etc, in this case.

TIM: You culd try contacting the credit reporting agency and telling them about how you won a credit card dispute and so this debt is invalid. They will ask you if you have something showing that a judgment has been entered in your favor. You'll tell them "no, this person on the internet told me that the debt was invalid because the credit card company said so." They'll tell you "sorry, we need a court document."

REID: Tim, what part of "there is no debt to be collected" do you not comprehend? There remains no debt to be validated.

TIM: As I've said, I've already ran this past several practicing attorneys and legal professors. Today I have a conference with a judge, and I'll run it past him. I'll let you knwo what he says.

REID: It doesn't matter how many law professionals you speak with, or how many laws you post Tim, the John Beck Mentoring Institute is a scam and no piece of paper containing no stipulations, disclaimers, or fine print is going to change this fact. We appreciate your concern however.

Until next time, take care Tom, Tim and Everyone else cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Tom, Tim and Everyone else,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

That's pretty funny Tom! LMAO. I'm a Pitbull! You are absolutely right though Tom, contracts are two way agreements.

According to the many unacknowledged and unresolved reports regarding the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute on this website alone, it's their company that has breached the agreement, by failing to render/provide the services that have been agreed upon.

FACT 1. It is every consumers right to dispute credit card transactions for goods and services, that have not been delivered or rendered according to an agreement.

FACT 2. The onus would then be on the business to substantiate the billing and PROVE, that the product or service which has been agreed upon has been delivered or rendered according to the terms and conditions of said contract.

FACT 3. Once a consumer wins a favorable decision in any credit card dispute, the debt is immediately erased. There would remain no debt to be collected on.

FACT 4. If the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute felt as though they had a legitimate shot at recovering any monies in a courtroom, they would have already capitalized on the many opportunities.

FACT 5. If a merchant's product or service is constantly disputed, the business runs a risk of losing their merchant account.

This is perhaps the reason why the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute decides to "bite the bullet" on so many disputes. It could also be fear of possibly having their fraudulent activities both past and present exposed.

TIM: Ah Reid, there is just no convincing you. You're a great person, but I would hate to have you as a client.

REID: Convince? It's probably because your rebuttals law or not, totally defies logic in even the most feeble minded.

Your rebuttals clearly imply, that scams are not scams, so long as an agreement has been established. They also suggest, that the Nigerian Scam would be legal, if only a contact were drafted and implemented.

Your every statements clearly imply, that the means in which an agreement is established, whether it be through deception, misrepresentation, coersion, FRAUD, etc, etc, are irrelevent.

TIM: You continue to labor under the assumption that credit card companies are somehow bestowed with the authority to invalidate contracts. This is not at all the case. As I have explained earlier, the CONSTITUTION simply wouldn't allow it.

I know that you have talked to a few people about this and they have told you that the debt is erased. This is a correct answer as far as the credit card company is concerned: you no longer owe anything to your credit card company. That debt is erased.

REID: Very true. Once a victim wins a favorable decision in a credit card dispute the debt is immediately erased. There would be no debt to be collected on, therefore leaves the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute with no recourse.

TIM: But, now that you have failed to pay via credit card, you still have a valid contractual obligation to pay that you have not met.

REID: Absolutely not true. According to mutual agreement between the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute and myself/the many other victims of the scam, credit card were to be the means of payment and nothing else.

There's no back up payment plans. As I've stated many times before, the contract which is used by the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute severely lacks necessary elements to be considered legally binding and enforceable.

Even IF the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute's contract were considered legally binding and enforceable, it was them that have breached it by not providing the service which has been agreed upon.

TIM: As far as collecting from your credit card company is concerned, JB has agreed to either follow the dispute procedure or not collect from the credit card company. But that is the extent of it.

REID: Why would any business elect not to follow the dispute procedure? This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

TIM: As far as the rest of contract law goes, he is under no duty to cooperate in your endeavor to dispute his charges with a non-legal entity.

REID: I believe that everyone would agree, that this is along the same lines as your previous excuse filled statement.

TIM: If you stop payment on a check, the creditor is in no way limited to collecting on that check, and the fact that your bank authorized the stop payment has no effect on the underlying debt. This situation is no different. You took steps to defeat payment, he is under no duty to challenge you. And his failure to challenge you has ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on the underlying contract.

REID: This is where you are wrong Tim. That is one of the primary benefits of paying with a credit card. Unlike paying with a check, where one has absolutely no protection against such fraudulent acts, paying with a credit card and being able to dispute any questionable transactions insures cardholders some degree of protection from such scams.

You are right though Tim, when stating that John Beck is under no duty to challenge me. He get's no money from me however.

TIM: Your whole theory runs absolutley counter to the common law of contracts, to the payment collection sections of the Uniform Commercial Code, and to American jurisprudence in general. Does a judge want to sit and hear cases that could have been decided by a machine down at American Express? No. Does he have a choice? NO!

REID: What does any of these items have to do with anything? You are making the situtation harder than it really is. It's really only a matter of John Beck failing to render the services, in which has been agreed upon, thus breaching the terms.

TIM: You are twisting the law to fit your mold, but what you are ending up with is something that looks nothing like what the law actually is.

REID: Definitely not true. As a matter of fact the exact opposite holds true. It is fraudulent businesses that search out loopholes in consumer/contract law which would enable them to peddle their garbage by means of deception, misrepresentation, coersion, FRAUD and various other criminal activities.

TIM: The danger in this is that people may feel content that, once they receive a favorable answer from the credit card company, that they no longer owe any money. That may be a great feeling, until your credit score plunges.

REID: So what exactly are you suggesting Tim? That victims just pay what "result of incest" Beck claims they owe him to salvage their credit? LOL.

TIM: Then what are you going to do? Call your credit card company and ask them why this debt is showing up on your credit report?

REID: A resounding YES.

TIM: They will tell you that they are not the creditor, so they know nothing about it and can do nothing about it. Are you going to call the FTC and ask them what to do?

REID: Another resounding YES.

TIM: I'll tell you exaclty what they are going to tell you: "we are a law enforcement agency, this is a civil matter, you need a lawyer!"

REID: Trust me, the FTC will not say this. They may however, explain that they do not assist nor represent an individual in court, etc, etc.

A lawyer should be ones absolute last resort and the furthest from ones mind. I have contacted the FTC, the Attorney General in many states, the FBI and filed reports with each and every one of these organizations.

TIM: And what's your lawyer going to do? Well, he will do everything in his power to resolve it easily, without going to court. But if that doesn't work, you're going to have to go to court.

REID: I have disputed the charge, received a charge back and have no intention on paying the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute a dime. If done correctly, each and every victim of the John Beck scam from here on out should have no problem doing the same.

TIM: The great thing, Reid, is that we can both be right, but the end result will be exactly the same: the consumer will have to go in front of a judge to have the debt erased.

REID: Not true. There is absolutely no need for attornies, judges, jury, etc, etc, in this case.

TIM: You culd try contacting the credit reporting agency and telling them about how you won a credit card dispute and so this debt is invalid. They will ask you if you have something showing that a judgment has been entered in your favor. You'll tell them "no, this person on the internet told me that the debt was invalid because the credit card company said so." They'll tell you "sorry, we need a court document."

REID: Tim, what part of "there is no debt to be collected" do you not comprehend? There remains no debt to be validated.

TIM: As I've said, I've already ran this past several practicing attorneys and legal professors. Today I have a conference with a judge, and I'll run it past him. I'll let you knwo what he says.

REID: It doesn't matter how many law professionals you speak with, or how many laws you post Tim, the John Beck Mentoring Institute is a scam and no piece of paper containing no stipulations, disclaimers, or fine print is going to change this fact. We appreciate your concern however.

Until next time, take care Tom, Tim and Everyone else cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Tom, Tim and Everyone else,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

That's pretty funny Tom! LMAO. I'm a Pitbull! You are absolutely right though Tom, contracts are two way agreements.

According to the many unacknowledged and unresolved reports regarding the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute on this website alone, it's their company that has breached the agreement, by failing to render/provide the services that have been agreed upon.

FACT 1. It is every consumers right to dispute credit card transactions for goods and services, that have not been delivered or rendered according to an agreement.

FACT 2. The onus would then be on the business to substantiate the billing and PROVE, that the product or service which has been agreed upon has been delivered or rendered according to the terms and conditions of said contract.

FACT 3. Once a consumer wins a favorable decision in any credit card dispute, the debt is immediately erased. There would remain no debt to be collected on.

FACT 4. If the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute felt as though they had a legitimate shot at recovering any monies in a courtroom, they would have already capitalized on the many opportunities.

FACT 5. If a merchant's product or service is constantly disputed, the business runs a risk of losing their merchant account.

This is perhaps the reason why the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute decides to "bite the bullet" on so many disputes. It could also be fear of possibly having their fraudulent activities both past and present exposed.

TIM: Ah Reid, there is just no convincing you. You're a great person, but I would hate to have you as a client.

REID: Convince? It's probably because your rebuttals law or not, totally defies logic in even the most feeble minded.

Your rebuttals clearly imply, that scams are not scams, so long as an agreement has been established. They also suggest, that the Nigerian Scam would be legal, if only a contact were drafted and implemented.

Your every statements clearly imply, that the means in which an agreement is established, whether it be through deception, misrepresentation, coersion, FRAUD, etc, etc, are irrelevent.

TIM: You continue to labor under the assumption that credit card companies are somehow bestowed with the authority to invalidate contracts. This is not at all the case. As I have explained earlier, the CONSTITUTION simply wouldn't allow it.

I know that you have talked to a few people about this and they have told you that the debt is erased. This is a correct answer as far as the credit card company is concerned: you no longer owe anything to your credit card company. That debt is erased.

REID: Very true. Once a victim wins a favorable decision in a credit card dispute the debt is immediately erased. There would be no debt to be collected on, therefore leaves the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute with no recourse.

TIM: But, now that you have failed to pay via credit card, you still have a valid contractual obligation to pay that you have not met.

REID: Absolutely not true. According to mutual agreement between the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute and myself/the many other victims of the scam, credit card were to be the means of payment and nothing else.

There's no back up payment plans. As I've stated many times before, the contract which is used by the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute severely lacks necessary elements to be considered legally binding and enforceable.

Even IF the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute's contract were considered legally binding and enforceable, it was them that have breached it by not providing the service which has been agreed upon.

TIM: As far as collecting from your credit card company is concerned, JB has agreed to either follow the dispute procedure or not collect from the credit card company. But that is the extent of it.

REID: Why would any business elect not to follow the dispute procedure? This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

TIM: As far as the rest of contract law goes, he is under no duty to cooperate in your endeavor to dispute his charges with a non-legal entity.

REID: I believe that everyone would agree, that this is along the same lines as your previous excuse filled statement.

TIM: If you stop payment on a check, the creditor is in no way limited to collecting on that check, and the fact that your bank authorized the stop payment has no effect on the underlying debt. This situation is no different. You took steps to defeat payment, he is under no duty to challenge you. And his failure to challenge you has ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on the underlying contract.

REID: This is where you are wrong Tim. That is one of the primary benefits of paying with a credit card. Unlike paying with a check, where one has absolutely no protection against such fraudulent acts, paying with a credit card and being able to dispute any questionable transactions insures cardholders some degree of protection from such scams.

You are right though Tim, when stating that John Beck is under no duty to challenge me. He get's no money from me however.

TIM: Your whole theory runs absolutley counter to the common law of contracts, to the payment collection sections of the Uniform Commercial Code, and to American jurisprudence in general. Does a judge want to sit and hear cases that could have been decided by a machine down at American Express? No. Does he have a choice? NO!

REID: What does any of these items have to do with anything? You are making the situtation harder than it really is. It's really only a matter of John Beck failing to render the services, in which has been agreed upon, thus breaching the terms.

TIM: You are twisting the law to fit your mold, but what you are ending up with is something that looks nothing like what the law actually is.

REID: Definitely not true. As a matter of fact the exact opposite holds true. It is fraudulent businesses that search out loopholes in consumer/contract law which would enable them to peddle their garbage by means of deception, misrepresentation, coersion, FRAUD and various other criminal activities.

TIM: The danger in this is that people may feel content that, once they receive a favorable answer from the credit card company, that they no longer owe any money. That may be a great feeling, until your credit score plunges.

REID: So what exactly are you suggesting Tim? That victims just pay what "result of incest" Beck claims they owe him to salvage their credit? LOL.

TIM: Then what are you going to do? Call your credit card company and ask them why this debt is showing up on your credit report?

REID: A resounding YES.

TIM: They will tell you that they are not the creditor, so they know nothing about it and can do nothing about it. Are you going to call the FTC and ask them what to do?

REID: Another resounding YES.

TIM: I'll tell you exaclty what they are going to tell you: "we are a law enforcement agency, this is a civil matter, you need a lawyer!"

REID: Trust me, the FTC will not say this. They may however, explain that they do not assist nor represent an individual in court, etc, etc.

A lawyer should be ones absolute last resort and the furthest from ones mind. I have contacted the FTC, the Attorney General in many states, the FBI and filed reports with each and every one of these organizations.

TIM: And what's your lawyer going to do? Well, he will do everything in his power to resolve it easily, without going to court. But if that doesn't work, you're going to have to go to court.

REID: I have disputed the charge, received a charge back and have no intention on paying the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute a dime. If done correctly, each and every victim of the John Beck scam from here on out should have no problem doing the same.

TIM: The great thing, Reid, is that we can both be right, but the end result will be exactly the same: the consumer will have to go in front of a judge to have the debt erased.

REID: Not true. There is absolutely no need for attornies, judges, jury, etc, etc, in this case.

TIM: You culd try contacting the credit reporting agency and telling them about how you won a credit card dispute and so this debt is invalid. They will ask you if you have something showing that a judgment has been entered in your favor. You'll tell them "no, this person on the internet told me that the debt was invalid because the credit card company said so." They'll tell you "sorry, we need a court document."

REID: Tim, what part of "there is no debt to be collected" do you not comprehend? There remains no debt to be validated.

TIM: As I've said, I've already ran this past several practicing attorneys and legal professors. Today I have a conference with a judge, and I'll run it past him. I'll let you knwo what he says.

REID: It doesn't matter how many law professionals you speak with, or how many laws you post Tim, the John Beck Mentoring Institute is a scam and no piece of paper containing no stipulations, disclaimers, or fine print is going to change this fact. We appreciate your concern however.

Until next time, take care Tom, Tim and Everyone else cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

dear tim:

we -not just myself - every person who has written on this thread could care less how you try to flex your interpretation of law on here. We dont care. This isnt about YOU Tim. Its about people not getting 'consideration of value' stated in advertising and or otherwize after shelling out big $$$ for an advertized product that does not deliver.

There is no 'consideration of value' . Again -get it thru your skull -we dont care if you agree or not - I have seen cases exactly like this and the FIRST line of defence is 'consideration ' unfullfilled in the contract. Plain and simple . Not the last line.

Even you must understand this Tim. If a person enters a contract under exchange of value for something -which ALL contracts are in one form or another 'exchanging value' -then if one party doesnt live up to it -there is no exchange of value , its the FIRST AND FOREMOST argument a lawyer will make to nullify the contract. Not the last.

Where the hell do u get your half baked arguments? Last line of defence.....
???? -there isnt any more fundamental agrument for breach of contract than these ie:

the consumer received service and did not pay -the servicing party didnt recieve 'consideration' for the value it provided.

the consumer paid and didnt recieve the service or all the service promised

Almost all contract 'breaches' are argued under the legal term 'consideration of value' which defines a legal contract -written or implied according to state.


This thread is not about you masturbating to what you think you know about commercial law. No one gives a s**t about YOU Tim. Its about people getting burned by the mentoring system.

Give it a rest already.

Tom, if you will read my rebuttals a little closer you will see that I am IN NO WAY defending John Beck. Far from it. I am trying to prevent victims from feeling as though their problems are at end when, truth be told, they are nowhere near. The fight continues. Don't try to confront my statements if you aren't willing to take the time to read them.

I am as convinced that this is a scam as the rest of you. Reid can vouch for me on that.

Now, you have chosen to challenge my knowledge of the law. Good! And you raise a cogent argument, but it is jurisprudentially incorrect.

"Consideration of value" merely means that there must be SOME sort of value going each way for a contract to be binding. The key word, however, is not "value." The key word is "consideration," which merely means that there is something of worth being exchanged.

A phrase like "consideration of value" is bound to trip up the legal novice, mostly because of the use of the word "value." You may assume that this means that the trade must be somewhat equal and fair. It doesn't mean that at all. It merely means that what is being given is of SOME value. It DOES NOT mean that what is being given is of value relative to what is being taken. For example, even if I give you one dollar for your brand new BMW, I have given you "consideration of value." I have even seen cases where one person gave another $1 in return for $100, and the contract was deemed valid.

The "of value" part is merely to prevent promised gifts and what are known as "illusory promises" to form the basis of a valid contract. As long as SOMETHING is being traded each way, the consideration element is satisfied. It doesn't matter how fair the transaction is.

Now, don't get me wrong, equity may enter in to other issues in a contract claim, and fairness is often relevant. Just not for the consideration element.

But unfairness is a tough defense to mount. From what I have seen, many victims never received what was promised. And I don't mean that the mentoring was worthless, I mean that the mentoring was never provided. There is no better defense to performance on a contract than the failure of the other party to live up to their end of it. Don't worry about the fairness of the contract, that's a lawyer's last resort, and it's rarely fruitful. Focus on JB's failure to physically deliver what was promised.

You've got a host of other defenses against JB. Failure of consideration just ain't one of them.

tim:

Wow , you seem to know a lot about commerical law. However, you're using a mode of interpretation that any signed contract is iron clad . Unfortunately for you and others like you -it does not translate into law.

You see, any contract is bound to be legal by what is called 'consideration of value' -which stipulates that you can sign any contract you want -but if the supplier -(mentor man) doesnt supply consideration -ie an actual mentorship proven to work consistently - then there is no value and no contract.

No word play written into the scam packaging and disclaimers is going to fool any judge. In order to be valid - every contract MUST provide 'consideration of value' to the consumer.

Is your mentoring school 'accredited'? by a governing state body? Do you have 100s if not 1000s of glowing reviews from folks actually making $10,000 per month based on the 'mentorship'?

Or do u have instead thousands of people crying 'ripoff' and a three ring circus of lawsuits from poor people trying to get their money back. No one or few people actually making anything like the $10,000 per month advertised.

Try defending the company in court when you have no actual value to stand on -only a 'contract' riddled with disclaimers. See what a judge says.

p.s. Please stop insulting our intelligence -or i will sick Reid on you again.

Ah Reid, there is just no convincing you. You're a great person, but I would hate to have you as a client.

You continue to labor under the assumption that credit card companies are somehow bestowed with the authority to invalidate contracts. This is not at all the case. As I have explained earlier, the CONSTITUTION simply wouldn't allow it.

I know that you have talked to a few people about this and they have told you that the debt is erased. This is a correct answer as far as the credit card company is concerned: you no longer owe anything to your credit card company. That debt is erased.

But, now that you have failed to pay via credit card, you still have a valid contractual obligation to pay that you have not met.

As far as collecting from your credit card company is concerned, JB has agreed to either follow the dispute procedure or not collect from the credit card company. But that is the extent of it.

As far as the rest of contract law goes, he is under no duty to cooperate in your endeavor to dispute his charges with a non-legal entity. If you stop payment on a check, the creditor is in no way limited to collecting on that check, and the fact that your bank authorized the stop payment has no effect on the underlying debt. This situation is no different. You took steps to defeat payment, he is under no duty to challenge you. And his failure to challenge you has ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on the underlying contract.

Your whole theory runs absolutley counter to the common law of contracts, to the payment collection sections of the Uniform Commercial Code, and to American jurisprudence in general. Does a judge want to sit and hear cases that could have been decided by a machine down at American Express? No. Does he have a choice? NO!

You are twisting the law to fit your mold, but what you are ending up with is something that looks nothing like what the law actually is.

The danger in this is that people may feel content that, once they receive a favorable answer from the credit card company, that they no longer owe any money. That may be a great feeling, until your credit score plunges.

Then what are you going to do? Call your credit card company and ask them why this debt is showing up on your credit report? They will tell you that they are not the creditor, so they know nothing about it and can do nothing about it. Are you going to call the FTC and ask them what to do? I'll tell you exaclty what they are going to tell you: "we are a law enforcement agency, this is a civil matter, you need a lawyer!"

And what's your lawyer going to do? Well, he will do everything in his power to resolve it easily, without going to court. But if that doesn't work, you're going to have to go to court.

The great thing, Reid, is that we can both be right, but the end result will be exactly the same: the consumer will have to go in front of a judge to have the debt erased.

You culd try contacting the credit reporting agency and telling them about how you won a credit card dispute and so this debt is invalid. They will ask you if you have something showing that a judgment has been entered in your favor. You'll tell them "no, this person on the internet told me that the debt was invalid because the credit card company said so." They'll tell you "sorry, we need a court document."

As I've said, I've already ran this past several practicing attorneys and legal professors. Today I have a conference with a judge, and I'll run it past him. I'll let you knwo what he says.

Hey there Tim,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

TIM: Do some research into the collection agency. Who knows, they may be a scam. But I don't have any more reason to think that EPN is a scam than I do to think that the people hounding my wife for hospital bills are a scam.

REID: Not true at all. EPN is definitely a scam. You can ask any department CEO, at any credit card company and I'm sure they'd all agree, that it is ridiculous for any "collection agency" to chase debts that do not exist.

If the frauduent John Beck Mentoring Institute had a legally binding contract, I'm sure they'd find it a lot easier to resolve disputes with credit card companies, than it is to resolve issues behind closed doors.

Unless that is, they were desperately searching for loopholes in the law to use for immoral, unethical, and flat out criminal activities.

TIM: As I said, until that contract is renered invalid by a JUDGE, they are collecting on a valid debt. And they probably stand to make a pretty penny if and when you pay up. Collecting for JB, to EPN, is just a good business decision. I know you all aren't big fans of my harsh reality pills, but this is just how the world works.

REID: Not true at all. People dispute charges everyday. Contracts DO NOT have to be rendered invalid by a judge. If this were true, credit card companies would need to start hiring their own judges.

It is the right as consumers/cardholders to dispute credit card charges for good and services, especially if a business is responsible for failing to deliver a good or render a service that has been agreed upon, thus breaching the agreement.

Until next time, take care Tim cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Tim,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

TIM: Sure, you could raise the argument in court that their failure to dispute your dispute is prima facie evidence that the debt is invalid. As of yet, however, you have not done that. So, at this point, you still have a valid contract with John Beck, and EPN is collecting on a legally valid debt. The debt is valid until a JUDGE says otherwise.

REID: Not true at all. I have already won a successful decision and have received every single penny back, due to fact the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute failed miserably to substantiate the billing and PROVE that they have rendered the services that were agreed upon, and in which they continue to fraudulently pitch.

John Beck's contract is no longer valid in this case, due to a performance breach, where the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute failed to render what has been agreed upon. A judge DOES NOT have to invalidate all contracts that are breached by fraudulent businesses.

Wouldn't such a procedure totally defeat the purpose of credit card disputes? If you were a judge Tim, would you appreciate having to encounter and endure such a frivolous and petty case all day long? One which could have easily been resolved in a simple credit card dispute, if only the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute were able to furnish PROOF to the contrary?

It's a known fact, that once someone wins a successful decision in a credit card dispute, the debt is immediately erased, therefore, any collection agency that attempts to collect on these would just be chasing non existant debts.

The fact that John Beck has a piece of paper with ones name affixed to it is meaningless, because it was the them that have not lived up to/fullfilled/performed their end of the agreement.

Until next time, take care Tim cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

"In other words, they have breeched their own contract, by not rendering the product and or service which has been agreed upon."

Exactly!

But the burden of proof, ultimately, is on YOU to show that they breached the contract. The burden is NOT on them to show that they have adhered to the agreement. All they need to do is defend against your charges, charges that YOU need to prove by a preponderance of evidence. Unfortunately, all the presumptions are against you, as are several other legal principles.

And Reid is also correct in asserting that they will probably never take you to court. But they will ruin your credit! And there are only two ways for you to avoid that. First, you can pay what they say you owe. This won't heal the damage already done, however, and I'm sure none of you want to go this route.

Your second option is to seek a declaratory judgment that the debt is invalid because the contract was breached. Let me reiterate, the actions of your credit card company have ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING on the validity of the underlying debt.

Sure, you could raise the argument in court that their failure to dispute your dispute is prima facie evidence that the debt is invalid. As of yet, however, you have not done that. So, at this point, you still have a valid contract with John Beck, and EPN is collecting on a legally valid debt. The debt is valid until a JUDGE says otherwise.

If you would like to know the procedure involved in an action of this sort, and what you could likely expect, I'll be glad to advise you the best I can. Just remember, I can't give you qualified legal advice.

Do some research into the collection agency. Who knows, they may be a scam. But I don't have any more reason to think that EPN is a scam than I do to think that the people hounding my wife for hospital bills are a scam. As I said, until that contract is renered invalid by a JUDGE, they are collecting on a valid debt. And they probably stand to make a pretty penny if and when you pay up. Collecting for JB, to EPN, is just a good business decision. I know you all aren't big fans of my harsh reality pills, but this is just how the world works.

There are a few more issues I would like to address, such as Reid's well-taken point about how my statements re. the parol evidence rule and fraud don't add up. To answer that issue would take a very lengthy legal lesson, which I would be glad to give, if you want it. Also, Al's (I think it was Al) excellent analysis of the "four corners" and seeking alternativwe payment methods. This would also entail a rather lengthy discussion, which I would be happy to give. And, finally, I would like to simply lay out what your trial would probably be like. Let me know about the level of interest in any of these.

Best regards

Thanks for your input Angie, it is very good advice, for the people that may not kwow this fact.

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

Thanks for the heads up Angie. We need more sincere people like yourself to come forward with sound advice. Tim has also provided this thread with some valuable insight, however I strongly disagree with his insisting John Beck has a case in court.

The John Beck Mentoring Institute is without question a fraudulent business. No if ands or buts about it and definitely not just my opinion.

Keep in mind that this is not the only website containing numerous unacknowledged and unresolved complaints regarding the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute and many, if not all the complaints regarding the John Beck scam have striking similarities.

I am 100% certain, that once a victim wins a favorable decision in a credit card dispute, there is no debt to be collected on, therefore, any and all collection agencies that attempt to collect on these non existent debts are nothing but scams themselves.

It is every consumers right to dispute credit card charges. It is a businesses responsibility to furnish proof that would substantiate the billing in question.

In other words, the onus is on the business to prove, that what has been agreed upon has been delivered or rendered according to the agreement. If the business can't do this in a credit card dispute, then any lawsuit would be frivolous in nature.

THINK ABOUT IT:

1. What could the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute sue someone for? For their failure to render the services which has been agreed upon?

2. For their breeching of the agreement/contract?

3. If the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute honestly felt they had a legitimate case, don't you think they would have sued someone by now?

4. If fraudulent businesses pursued a victim each and every time a decision did not go their way, what would be the f%ck!ng purpose of having credit card disputes in the first place?

I am 100% certain that any and all lawsuits by fraudulent businesses that were unable to substantiate the billing in question in a credit card dispute (open dispute) would be frivolous.

If you think for a second, that the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute has a legitimate case in court, or EPN is a legitimate collection agency, you also believe that it snows out here in Hawaii, and we live in grass shacks and wear hula skirts. LMAO.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

I've been reading the posts about this company and the questions on whether or not the collection agency is even legit. Send this EPN a letter asking for their license number issued by your state allowing them to do business there. If they give you a number, check with your states department of commerce. Tell them if you do not receive the requested information, you will turn them in to your state for doing business without a license. If they are legit, file a complaint with your state, if they aren't legit, file a complaint anyway.

I've been reading the posts about this company and the questions on whether or not the collection agency is even legit. Send this EPN a letter asking for their license number issued by your state allowing them to do business there. If they give you a number, check with your states department of commerce. Tell them if you do not receive the requested information, you will turn them in to your state for doing business without a license. If they are legit, file a complaint with your state, if they aren't legit, file a complaint anyway.

I've been reading the posts about this company and the questions on whether or not the collection agency is even legit. Send this EPN a letter asking for their license number issued by your state allowing them to do business there. If they give you a number, check with your states department of commerce. Tell them if you do not receive the requested information, you will turn them in to your state for doing business without a license. If they are legit, file a complaint with your state, if they aren't legit, file a complaint anyway.

I've been reading the posts about this company and the questions on whether or not the collection agency is even legit. Send this EPN a letter asking for their license number issued by your state allowing them to do business there. If they give you a number, check with your states department of commerce. Tell them if you do not receive the requested information, you will turn them in to your state for doing business without a license. If they are legit, file a complaint with your state, if they aren't legit, file a complaint anyway.

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on television. My advice should in no way be taken as, or considered legal advice or counseling.

My experience with the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute however, is as real as day. Factual and not just my opinion, as I'm sure it is with the many other victims of this scam.

The fact that FRAUD in consumer/contract law may differ from that of a dictionary's definition, does not make John Beck's program any less of a scam in the real world.

As a matter of fact, it actually proves that consumer/contract law is heavely flawed and contains many loopholes which allows fraudulent businesses to take advantage of consumers that are not familiar with them.

In other words, loopholes which allow fraudulent businesses to justify their fraudulent and other criminal activities. Use loopholes in law to scam many in short.

Tim is absolutely right about one thing. A dirty and corrupt business like John Beck's will probably stop at nothing.

The fact that the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute even considers flooding our courtrooms with such frivolous nonsense proves that they are more corrupt than initially suspected.

The word "puffing" by the way, according to Real Estate terminology means to praise with slightly exagerated claims ie; great location, spectacular view, etc, etc, but in no way pertains to overly exagerated claims or misrepresentations.

There's a huge difference between "puffing", which is one's opinion and "bluffing", which is total deceit. John Beck's claims can in no way be considered harmless "puffing", as it is used to deliberately mislead.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on television. My advice should in no way be taken as, or considered legal advice or counseling.

My experience with the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute however, is as real as day. Factual and not just my opinion, as I'm sure it is with the many other victims of this scam.

The fact that FRAUD in consumer/contract law may differ from that of a dictionary's definition, does not make John Beck's program any less of a scam in the real world.

As a matter of fact, it actually proves that consumer/contract law is heavely flawed and contains many loopholes which allows fraudulent businesses to take advantage of consumers that are not familiar with them.

In other words, loopholes which allow fraudulent businesses to justify their fraudulent and other criminal activities. Use loopholes in law to scam many in short.

Tim is absolutely right about one thing. A dirty and corrupt business like John Beck's will probably stop at nothing.

The fact that the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute even considers flooding our courtrooms with such frivolous nonsense proves that they are more corrupt than initially suspected.

The word "puffing" by the way, according to Real Estate terminology means to praise with slightly exagerated claims ie; great location, spectacular view, etc, etc, but in no way pertains to overly exagerated claims or misrepresentations.

There's a huge difference between "puffing", which is one's opinion and "bluffing", which is total deceit. John Beck's claims can in no way be considered harmless "puffing", as it is used to deliberately mislead.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on television. My advice should in no way be taken as, or considered legal advice or counseling.

My experience with the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute however, is as real as day. Factual and not just my opinion, as I'm sure it is with the many other victims of this scam.

The fact that FRAUD in consumer/contract law may differ from that of a dictionary's definition, does not make John Beck's program any less of a scam in the real world.

As a matter of fact, it actually proves that consumer/contract law is heavely flawed and contains many loopholes which allows fraudulent businesses to take advantage of consumers that are not familiar with them.

In other words, loopholes which allow fraudulent businesses to justify their fraudulent and other criminal activities. Use loopholes in law to scam many in short.

Tim is absolutely right about one thing. A dirty and corrupt business like John Beck's will probably stop at nothing.

The fact that the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute even considers flooding our courtrooms with such frivolous nonsense proves that they are more corrupt than initially suspected.

The word "puffing" by the way, according to Real Estate terminology means to praise with slightly exagerated claims ie; great location, spectacular view, etc, etc, but in no way pertains to overly exagerated claims or misrepresentations.

There's a huge difference between "puffing", which is one's opinion and "bluffing", which is total deceit. John Beck's claims can in no way be considered harmless "puffing", as it is used to deliberately mislead.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on television. My advice should in no way be taken as, or considered legal advice or counseling.

My experience with the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute however, is as real as day. Factual and not just my opinion, as I'm sure it is with the many other victims of this scam.

The fact that FRAUD in consumer/contract law may differ from that of a dictionary's definition, does not make John Beck's program any less of a scam in the real world.

As a matter of fact, it actually proves that consumer/contract law is heavely flawed and contains many loopholes which allows fraudulent businesses to take advantage of consumers that are not familiar with them.

In other words, loopholes which allow fraudulent businesses to justify their fraudulent and other criminal activities. Use loopholes in law to scam many in short.

Tim is absolutely right about one thing. A dirty and corrupt business like John Beck's will probably stop at nothing.

The fact that the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute even considers flooding our courtrooms with such frivolous nonsense proves that they are more corrupt than initially suspected.

The word "puffing" by the way, according to Real Estate terminology means to praise with slightly exagerated claims ie; great location, spectacular view, etc, etc, but in no way pertains to overly exagerated claims or misrepresentations.

There's a huge difference between "puffing", which is one's opinion and "bluffing", which is total deceit. John Beck's claims can in no way be considered harmless "puffing", as it is used to deliberately mislead.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

The fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute IS NOT taking anyone to court. It's a known fact that when someone wins a favorable decision in a credit card dispute, the money is then taken back from the merchant by default.

This simply means that there is no debt to be collected on. This is what makes EPN just as fraudulent as the John Beck Mentoring Institute. 1. EPN chases non existent debts. 2. EPN like the fraudulent John Beck mentoring Institute, randomely selects their victims.

Does anyone from either of these fraudulent companies care to explain why I haven't been served up with a collection notice? I promise not to wipe my a$$ with it and send it back. LOL.

If the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute honestly feels they have a legitimate case, what exactly are they waiting for?

Anyways, a merchant would default and the victim would receive a chargeback from the fraudulent merchant upon the merchant failing to submit an item(s), which substantiates the billing in question.

In this particular case it would be the John Beck Mentoring Institute's contract, which would be considered null and void, due to the fact it was them that have failed to meet the obligation of the agreement.

In other words, they have breeched their own contract, by not rendering the product and or service which has been agreed upon. So what does the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute have in their favor? Absolutely nothing.

What would their lawsuit be based on? Their failure to render service? LOL. Ridiculous!

For your own piece of mind, contact your credit card company's dispute department, ask a supervisor what recouses they feel John Beck may have after he has failed to render services that have been agreed upon. They will probably laugh till they're blue in the face.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

The fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute is not taking any one to court. If the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute honestly felt they had a legititimate case, they would have done so a long time ago.

For a fraudulent company like John Beck's to even consider such a ridiculous option would be a total mockery on the judicial system. The more a business has to search for loopholes in laws to justify their actions, the more they uncover their own scam.

FRAUD: Intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right. An act of deceiving or misrepresenting.

This is the dictionaries definition of fraud. I think it's pretty safe to assume that the many victims here would all agree they've been defrauded.

Now if the law differs from this and John Beck decides to recover monies by means of lawsuits, he would literally be admitting to commiting the dictionaries definition of fraud, but hiding behind loopholes and flaws in state and federal laws. Using the courts to extort in short. I should have been a rapper. LOL.

So who are the real victims here? Are we suggesting that a rapist can have his victim convicted and incarcerated for simply being a victim?

If it truly is John Beck's intent to sue his victims 1. It would clearly be an act of desperation. 2. It would clearly be on the grounds of ones ignorance of consumer laws and nothing to do with threir programs being legitimate. 3. They would have done so by now. Why haven't they? Well, the obvious answer to this is any and all lawsuits coming from a fraudulent business would be considered far fetched. I think embarrassing to say the very least.

BEHIND CLOSED DOORS: "Gee your honor, I know that our business is threading a very fine line between legitimate and fraudulent according to loopholes we've found in state and federal laws and which we use in attempt to legally extort monies, but would you be kind enough to cut us a break, being that we're able to justify our fraudulent and other criminal activities, threats, intimidation, extortion, etc, etc?"

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

The fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute is not taking any one to court. If the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute honestly felt they had a legititimate case, they would have done so a long time ago.

For a fraudulent company like John Beck's to even consider such a ridiculous option would be a total mockery on the judicial system. The more a business has to search for loopholes in laws to justify their actions, the more they uncover their own scam.

FRAUD: Intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right. An act of deceiving or misrepresenting.

This is the dictionaries definition of fraud. I think it's pretty safe to assume that the many victims here would all agree they've been defrauded.

Now if the law differs from this and John Beck decides to recover monies by means of lawsuits, he would literally be admitting to commiting the dictionaries definition of fraud, but hiding behind loopholes and flaws in state and federal laws. Using the courts to extort in short. I should have been a rapper. LOL.

So who are the real victims here? Are we suggesting that a rapist can have his victim convicted and incarcerated for simply being a victim?

If it truly is John Beck's intent to sue his victims 1. It would clearly be an act of desperation. 2. It would clearly be on the grounds of ones ignorance of consumer laws and nothing to do with threir programs being legitimate. 3. They would have done so by now. Why haven't they? Well, the obvious answer to this is any and all lawsuits coming from a fraudulent business would be considered far fetched. I think embarrassing to say the very least.

BEHIND CLOSED DOORS: "Gee your honor, I know that our business is threading a very fine line between legitimate and fraudulent according to loopholes we've found in state and federal laws and which we use in attempt to legally extort monies, but would you be kind enough to cut us a break, being that we're able to justify our fraudulent and other criminal activities, threats, intimidation, extortion, etc, etc?"

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

The fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute is not taking any one to court. If the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute honestly felt they had a legititimate case, they would have done so a long time ago.

For a fraudulent company like John Beck's to even consider such a ridiculous option would be a total mockery on the judicial system. The more a business has to search for loopholes in laws to justify their actions, the more they uncover their own scam.

FRAUD: Intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right. An act of deceiving or misrepresenting.

This is the dictionaries definition of fraud. I think it's pretty safe to assume that the many victims here would all agree they've been defrauded.

Now if the law differs from this and John Beck decides to recover monies by means of lawsuits, he would literally be admitting to commiting the dictionaries definition of fraud, but hiding behind loopholes and flaws in state and federal laws. Using the courts to extort in short. I should have been a rapper. LOL.

So who are the real victims here? Are we suggesting that a rapist can have his victim convicted and incarcerated for simply being a victim?

If it truly is John Beck's intent to sue his victims 1. It would clearly be an act of desperation. 2. It would clearly be on the grounds of ones ignorance of consumer laws and nothing to do with threir programs being legitimate. 3. They would have done so by now. Why haven't they? Well, the obvious answer to this is any and all lawsuits coming from a fraudulent business would be considered far fetched. I think embarrassing to say the very least.

BEHIND CLOSED DOORS: "Gee your honor, I know that our business is threading a very fine line between legitimate and fraudulent according to loopholes we've found in state and federal laws and which we use in attempt to legally extort monies, but would you be kind enough to cut us a break, being that we're able to justify our fraudulent and other criminal activities, threats, intimidation, extortion, etc, etc?"

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

The fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute is not taking any one to court. If the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute honestly felt they had a legititimate case, they would have done so a long time ago.

For a fraudulent company like John Beck's to even consider such a ridiculous option would be a total mockery on the judicial system. The more a business has to search for loopholes in laws to justify their actions, the more they uncover their own scam.

FRAUD: Intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right. An act of deceiving or misrepresenting.

This is the dictionaries definition of fraud. I think it's pretty safe to assume that the many victims here would all agree they've been defrauded.

Now if the law differs from this and John Beck decides to recover monies by means of lawsuits, he would literally be admitting to commiting the dictionaries definition of fraud, but hiding behind loopholes and flaws in state and federal laws. Using the courts to extort in short. I should have been a rapper. LOL.

So who are the real victims here? Are we suggesting that a rapist can have his victim convicted and incarcerated for simply being a victim?

If it truly is John Beck's intent to sue his victims 1. It would clearly be an act of desperation. 2. It would clearly be on the grounds of ones ignorance of consumer laws and nothing to do with threir programs being legitimate. 3. They would have done so by now. Why haven't they? Well, the obvious answer to this is any and all lawsuits coming from a fraudulent business would be considered far fetched. I think embarrassing to say the very least.

BEHIND CLOSED DOORS: "Gee your honor, I know that our business is threading a very fine line between legitimate and fraudulent according to loopholes we've found in state and federal laws and which we use in attempt to legally extort monies, but would you be kind enough to cut us a break, being that we're able to justify our fraudulent and other criminal activities, threats, intimidation, extortion, etc, etc?"

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

A question for anyone to reply or comment.

It is noteded that some may have allowed their credit card or cards to be charged.

The question may be asked did any one say or state, that in the event their cards did not pay for this, that they would allow direct payment to John or Jim in the regard; the card was not used for making payment. Is this what is stated orally or in written form.

Even though the intention may have been to be bound to an agreement, as assumed, it would take place as represented.

Is this stated in your agreement or contract that you would pay a collection agency or other forms of payment could or would be applied in the event that this did not take place??

I am sure Reid may have already implied this same thought.

Is this in written form of your agreement or contract that other forms of payment may be impemented; if, it could be consider a contract.

This is not advice only a question for more knoledgable people and food for thought.

A QUESTION TO TIM, would this be looking with in the four corners of a written paper??

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

TIM: Reid, our disagreement aside, don't forget that I'm your biggest fan.

REID: Thank you Tim. I'm your biggest fan. Always a pleasure to read your rebuttals.

TIM: John, I wish you had as great of a case as you and others think you do. And I wish that the law was as simple as you think it is. The past three years of my life would have been much easier, my job today would be much easier, and I wouldn't have to spend my weekend researching the application of the 1983 exhaustion requirement to minors. But you don't have such a great case, the law isn't so simple, and I will be spending the weekend at the office.

REID: I think what Tim is trying to say John, is that the unscrupulous attorney know as John Beck, may attempt to corroborate with other unscrupulous attornies, dig deep into their playbooks, and FIND things to take you to court for.

TIM: Now you can either accept the biased advice of people who want to believe that it's gonna be easy, or you can take the objective advice of someone who actually does this for a living. I deal with this every day and, believe me, you face one hell of an uphill battle. I'm not trying to disourage anybody, just being realistic.

REID: No one can be sued for merely exercising their right as consumers to dispute credit card charges.

TIM: Let me fill you in on a very fundamental principle of contract law: a written contract is presumptively valid, and presumptively represents the totality of the agreement between the parties. The burden is on the party attacking the validity of the contract to show that the presumption is refuted. The party supporting the contract merely has to refute your charges.

REID: Just how do you suppose the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute is going to refute the charges? If they were able to refute charges, Im sure they wouldn't lose so many disputes.

TIM: This principle is bolstered by the "parol evidence rule" (pronounced either like "parole" or "peril"; both are acceptable). The affect of the parol evidence rule is to bar any evidence of anything outside of the "four corners" of the contract. The parol evidence rule is the law in most, if not all states (because it's in the Uniform Commercial Code, which most, if not all states have adopted).

This means that any evidence of moral frauds could, and probably would, be entirely excluded from the record. This leaves nothing but a determination as to whether the clauses of the agreement, in isolation from the reality of the situation or any verbal agreements, are legal. And believe me, they probably are. That's just how the law works, unfortunately in this case.

Fraud is, however, a means of avoiding application of the parol evidence rule. But a moral fraud is not enough. It must actually be a fraud that the law will recognize. And, again, there is a presumption in favor of the validity of the contract.

REID: Tim, you've stated "This means that any evidence of moral frauds could, and probably would, be entirely excluded from the record." You've also stated "Fraud is, however, a means of avoiding application of the parol evidence rule." Both of these statements can't possibly be true.

TIM: On a moral level, JB commits fraud by deluding potential purchasers as to the viability of his program. But that isn't enough. He must actually give concretely false statements.

REID: They do. Mike Evans from the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute made many promises which were not delivered.

HERE ARE JUST A FEW EXAMPLES: 1. Exclusive offer. I see more than 50 unacknowledged, unexplained, and unresolved complaints on this website alone and growing. 2. I'd recover my investment in three months or less. I'm sure I'm not the only victim that have been told this. 3. $10,000.00-$15,000.00 a month for whatever "available credit" on my credit cards. Everyone of the victims on this website alone have been charged a different amount for the same garbage.

TIM: To be fraudulent in the eyes of the law, such statements must generally not be open to interpretation. Or, in the least, the statements must conclusively state something that is not true. Consider the following statements that a scam artist offering a scam opportunity could make:

1) "It is possible to achieve success with our program."

Definitely NOT fraud so long as it is actually POSSIBLE to achieve success, even if it would happen very rarely, even never, in real life, and even if the purveyors recognized that very few (if any) people will actually achieve success.

REID: FRAUD: Intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right. An act of deceiving or misrepresenting.

I think what Tim is trying to say here is that John Beck being the unscupulous attorney that he is, may out of desperation attempt to use loopholes in the law and one's ignorance of them to his advantage, thus attempt to screw people behind closed doors.

TIM: 2) "Many people find great success using our program."

Probably not fraud. To prove that it was fraud, you would probably have to show that no more than two people have actually found success, because anything over two could be construed as "many," and the terms are loose enough to be seen as "puffing" by a reasonable consumer. If very few people actually achieved success, however, this statement WOULD count against the scammer, but other factors would probably have to be proven as well.

REID: FRAUD: Intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right. An act of deceiving or misrepresenting.

I think what Tim is trying to say here is that John Beck being the unscupulous attorney that he is, may out of desperation attempt to use loopholes in the law and one's ignorance of them to his advantage, thus attempt to screw people behind closed doors.

TIM: 3) "Most people achieve success with our program."

This COULD very well be fraud. But you would still have a VERY hard time proving it. And YOU do have to prove it. It is not up to the scammer to prove that he is not a scammer. It is up to YOU to prove that he IS.

The use of the word "most," however, denotes "more than half." Proving that more than half of the users do not find success would be possible. But, you would still have to come up with an acceptable definition of success, which is a vague term. You could probably at least define success as "making more money than you spend."

You could probably get a judgment in your favor with this statement, but it would not, by any means, be easy.

REID: FRAUD: Intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right. An act of deceiving or misrepresenting.

Tim is absolutely right about this one John. You may need to get all 58 of us together to prove this one. I believe boasting a 94% success rate however implies "most."

TIM: 4) "90% of people who use our program make at least $300,000 per year."

Definitely fraud if it isn't true. But you will still have to prove that the statement was actually made. How are you going to do that? Maybe it can be done, maybe it can't, but it's up to you (or your lawyers) to do it. It is not up to the scammer to prove that the statement is true, it's up to yuo to prove that it isn't.

REID: FRAUD: Intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right. An act of deceiving or misrepresenting.

I think what Tim is trying to say here is that John Beck being the unscupulous attorney that he is, may out of desperation attempt to use loopholes in the law and one's ignorance of them to his advantage, thus attempt to screw people behind closed doors.

TIM: If you can't prove fraud, then I don't think you can get around the parol evidence rule. If you can't get around the parol evidence rule, then you can't claim fraud. The most you can claim is that the contract itself is invalid. So long as no laws are broken within the contract itself (excluding EVERYTHING not appearing in the contract), and so long as there is offer, acceptance and consideration (which there are), the contract is valid.

REID: I think what Tim is trying to say here is that John Beck being the unscupulous attorney that he is, may out of desperation attempt to use loopholes in the law and one's ignorance of them to his advantage, thus attempt to screw people behind closed doors.

JOHN: And if the contract is valid, there is nothing illegal about a company trying to collect on it. Even if your contract is adjudged invalid, there is nothing barring a collection agency from collecting on all the other contracts that have not been invalidated.

REID: I hope you are not planning to pay EPN John. They randomely select their victims for Pete's sake. EPN chases non existent debts. LOL.

Contact your credit card company's dispute department and inquire about any recourses, that John Beck may have and you will see that any lawsuit on his part would be obvious reaching.

Just an unscrupulous attorney attempting to use loopholes in the laws of the United States for unfair gain and to commit unethical and immoral acts. This is not a whole lot beeter than fraud.

If you absolutely must John, contact an attorney that may be willing to take your case on a contingency basis.

TIM: I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the legal deck is stacked against you. I know how the system works, and in your case, it does not work well for you. And don't get me wrong, that's unfortunate. But it's reality, and I hope that's what you're looking for.

REID: I think what Tim is trying to say is that laws are more designed to assist criminals that have some degree of knowledge of them, than actual victims themselves.

TIM: Now, by all means, DO NOT take what I say as conclusive in any way, or even as competent legal advice, for you are not my client and I owe no duty of accuracy to you. SEEK LEGAL COUNSEL BY ALL MEANS. Just don't think that you have a slam dunk of a case.

REID: The fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institue are not victims, therefore, would find the court system of little use, or virtually no use.

Just know John, that the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute has not taken anyone to court yet and why Tim feels you'll probably be the first is beyond me.

I'm sure that if one of the many victims ever were to go to court with the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute, he or she would have no problem finding many supporters.

TIM: And, by all means, good luck.

May the force be with you.

REID: Thank you once again Tim, for providing such valuable insight.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Thanks for this insight--This is 1 point that I would make--that the program is fraudulant and impossible to make big $$'s on. But again, there are MANY other points that I would bring up if I were to go to court.

How exactly could this company get around charging different amounts based on a person't credit card limit for the same service?? Is this legal??

There are many examples that I have seen on this site alone to prove my allegations. People on this site have testified that they were conned into signing up for this program and the amounts ranged from as little as a few thousand bucks (charged to customers with smaller limits) to larger amounts up to almost $14,000.

When I found this out, this was the point that I felt like I had a slam dunk (if these parasites wanted to challenge me in court in a worst case scenario.) Do you actually think they could explain this away in an open forum such as in a court of law?? What legal terminology could they use to explain this away??

I would also say that the $$ aspect was only 1 point they promised me to get me to sign. They promised physical "hands on training" with a professional mentor. If I knew that it would be some bozo from Utah calling me once a week I would never have done it.

They also promised that I would be in an infomercial (they promised many others the same thing). They also allege that this is only given to a VERY select few based on the answers to the questionaire (not ANYONE who orders their Free and Easy tapes who has a credit card with available balance.)

Tim, I do appreciate your expertise and agree that the "fraud" that you are referring to is not an easy point to prove. That WOULD NOT be the main point in my challenge to them. You are right. It would be hard, no IMPOSSIBLE to prove that they don't have anyone who becomes successful using their program. Heck, they could con ANYONE to get up there and say they were successful using their junk.

HOW COULD THEY EXPLAIN THE MOST RELEVANT FACT THAT THEY CHARGE DIFFERENT AMOUNTS RANGING FROM $2000 TO 14,000 FOR THE SAME SERVICES??? How damaging would this be to them and to the public if this came to light??

What kind of publicity would they bring on themselves if this came out. You know Tim, I was going to throw in the towel back in February after I had 5 useless sessions and found that this info was junk and I was scammed. When I found this site and studied it, I saw that this company was charging different amounts for the same service and EXPLODED!! This was when I decided to fight them tooth and nail because if there isn't a law against this there will be if they ever are foolish enough to go to court and try to explain how this is legal, moral and valid!!

There are many unethical practices used by this company but I truly believe that they cannot go to court with their "evidence" because they cannot afford to. Not that they don't have the $$'s to do so because naturally they do (since so many others fall for their scam) They cannot afford the public to know that they charge amounts based on a persons credit card.

If this fact became public knowledge (to others besides those on this site), I truly believe that they could not afford the bad publicity that this would cause.

Also, this fact alone, if brought out in the public eye would damage their future business a lot more that shaking down a single individual (like me) in open court to collect on what you say is a "legal contract". Sorry Tim, your point is well taken, but I'll take my chances anyway. Best wishes to you, Reid, and everyone else on this site.

Reid, our disagreement aside, don't forget that I'm your biggest fan.

John, I wish you had as great of a case as you and others think you do. And I wish that the law was as simple as you think it is. The past three years of my life would have been much easier, my job today would be much easier, and I wouldn't have to spend my weekend researching the application of the 1983 exhaustion requirement to minors. But you don't have such a great case, the law isn't so simple, and I will be spending the weekend at the office.

Now you can either accept the biased advice of people who want to believe that it's gonna be easy, or you can take the objective advice of someone who actually does this for a living. I deal with this every day and, believe me, you face one hell of an uphill battle. I'm not trying to disourage anybody, just being realistic.

Let me fill you in on a very fundamental principle of contract law: a written contract is presumptively valid, and presumptively represents the totality of the agreement between the parties. The burden is on the party attacking the validity of the contract to show that the presumption is refuted. The party supporting the contract merely has to refute your charges.

This principle is bolstered by the "parol evidence rule" (pronounced either like "parole" or "peril"; both are acceptable). The affect of the parol evidence rule is to bar any evidence of anything outside of the "four corners" of the contract. The parol evidence rule is the law in most, if not all states (because it's in the Uniform Commercial Code, which most, if not all states have adopted).

This means that any evidence of moral frauds could, and probably would, be entirely excluded from the record. This leaves nothing but a determination as to whether the clauses of the agreement, in isolation from the reality of the situation or any verbal agreements, are legal. And believe me, they probably are. That's just how the law works, unfortunately in this case.

Fraud is, however, a means of avoiding application of the parol evidence rule. But a moral fraud is not enough. It must actually be a fraud that the law will recognize. And, again, there is a presumption in favor of the validity of the contract.

On a moral level, JB commits fraud by deluding potential purchasers as to the viability of his program. But that isn't enough. He must actually give concretely false statements. To be fraudulent in the eyes of the law, such statements must generally not be open to interpretation. Or, in the least, the statements must conclusively state something that is not true. Consider the following statements that a scam artist offering a scam opportunity could make:

1) "It is possible to achieve success with our program."

Definitely NOT fraud so long as it is actually POSSIBLE to achieve success, even if it would happen very rarely, even never, in real life, and even if the purveyors recognized that very few (if any) people will actually achieve success.

2) "Many people find great success using our program."

Probably not fraud. To prove that it was fraud, you would probably have to show that no more than two people have actually found success, because anything over two could be construed as "many," and the terms are loose enough to be seen as "puffing" by a reasonable consumer. If very few people actually achieved success, however, this statement WOULD count against the scammer, but other factors would probably have to be proven as well.

3) "Most people achieve success with our program."

This COULD very well be fraud. But you would still have a VERY hard time proving it. And YOU do have to prove it. It is not up to the scammer to prove that he is not a scammer. It is up to YOU to prove that he IS.

The use of the word "most," however, denotes "more than half." Proving that more than half of the users do not find success would be possible. But, you would still have to come up with an acceptable definition of success, which is a vague term. You could probably at least define success as "making more money than you spend."

You could probably get a judgment in your favor with this statement, but it would not, by any means, be easy.

4) "90% of people who use our program make at least $300,000 per year."

Definitely fraud if it isn't true. But you will still have to prove that the statement was actually made. How are you going to do that? Maybe it can be done, maybe it can't, but it's up to you (or your lawyers) to do it. It is not up to the scammer to prove that the statement is true, it's up to yuo to prove that it isn't.

If you can't prove fraud, then I don't think you can get around the parol evidence rule. If you can't get around the parol evidence rule, then you can't claim fraud. The most you can claim is that the contract itself is invalid. So long as no laws are broken within the contract itself (excluding EVERYTHING not appearing in the contract), and so long as there is offer, acceptance and consideration (which there are), the contract is valid.

And if the contract is valid, there is nothing illegal about a company trying to collect on it. Even if your contract is adjudged invalid, there is nothing barring a collection agency from collecting on all the other contracts that have not been invalidated.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the legal deck is stacked against you. I know how the system works, and in your case, it does not work well for you. And don't get me wrong, that's unfortunate. But it's reality, and I hope that's what you're looking for.

Now, by all means, DO NOT take what I say as conclusive in any way, or even as competent legal advice, for you are not my client and I owe no duty of accuracy to you. SEEK LEGAL COUNSEL BY ALL MEANS. Just don't think that you have a slam dunk of a case.

And, by all means, good luck.

May the force be with you.

Thank You John For Your Timely Rebuttals.

Hey there John,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

JOHN: Additional response to Tim

Greetings to all!! --First of all, I would like to thank Reid and Tim for this excellent discussion concerning legal matters that some of us will soon be up against once our credit card is reimbursed. It seems apparent that the fraudulent Mentoring of America is trying a new tactic--ignoring the credit card company's complaint and then sending the collection agency after their prey. I am sure that Tim knows what he is talking about concerning contract obligations--that a credit card company has no legal jurisdiction to decide whether the contract can be voided by the customer.

REID: True, credit card companies do not involve themselves in contractual matters. The sole purpose of credit card disputes, which is the right of consumers mind you, is to provide their cardholders with protection from such fraudulent businesses such as John Beck's.

After a decision has been rendered by a credit card company, any such contracts, etc, etc, becomes irrelevent, because the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute had the opportunity to furnish such documents on their behalf, but for fear of exposing their criminal activities chose not to.

The contract becomes null and void at this point, because it was the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute that breeched their own contract by not providing the service that had been agreed upon.

JOHN: The fact that we got reimbursed does not necessarily mean our fight is over. I think many of our friends are finding this to be true.

REID: True your fight is not over. The scam continues on while the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute becomes more desperate and overt in their pursuit to defraud.

JOHN: I do believe that the burden of proof will then fall back on Beck's crew to prove that their services are valid in claims court for us to be held liable for payment owed to them.

REID: The burden of proof definitely lies on the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute.

JOHN: The only proof that they have is our written agreement that we signed. They would have to prove in court what this "valuable" service was that they gave us.

REID: Their contract is meaningless. I too have signed their Mickey Mouse contract. John Beck's contract severely lacks the neccessary elements which constitutes a legally binding and enforceable agreement.

The items stated on John Beck's Mickey Mouse contract greatly differs from what has been agreed upon on the telephone. Of course the telephone agreement is nothing but a trap because the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute tape records everyone's agreement to enroll, but do not tape record any of their fraudulent sales pitches?

John Beck's contract does not state the exact terms and conditions of the agreement, nor does it state the policies and procedures, in the event of a breech, etc, etc. Any contract attorney would get a good laugh at this piece of $h!t!

JOHN: I, for example, was never given any options when they signed me up. The salesman (Dean Walker), never gave me an option about different package costs as I was led to believe that the $12,500 was what everyone was charged.

REID: I don't believe anyone is given options.

1. The fairy tale (you've been selected, exclusive offer, a few qualified individuals, etc, etc).

2. Bogus testimonials of
unknown/UNPROVEN "success stories."

3. UNSUBSTANCIATED "earning claims" and fraudulent sales pitches. What's to be received for the enourmous investment, tax benefits, return of investment, monthly income, etc, etc.

4. Finally the close, which is solely determined by the amount of "available credit" one has on his or her credit card. This is where the tape recording begins.

Sound about right?

JOHN: I also was told that only a few people were "chosen" all over the USA based on an indepth interview process (mine lasted 2 hours) and being "selected" was only given to a select few.

REID: Yeah, select few. Anyone with a credit card and a decent line of credit.

JOHN: I also was told that I would be using "other peoples money" and would be working "hands on" with a private mentor. When asked who the mentor was in my area, I was told "he will be contacting you soon" not telling me that this was to be done by phone.

REID: "Other people's money" in scam terminology literally means anyones money but the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Insitutes.

JOHN: I was also asked if I would take part in a new infomercial with John Beck telling everyone in this commercial about my "success story" This was very exciting to me! (I always enjoyed public speaking) There was not an ounce of truth to any of these promises that led to my signature or "contract".

REID: I was also promised this same bull$h!t. I was extremely pi$$ed to find out almost two years later, that the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute continues to use the same old Infomercial.

JOHN: I am not a lawyer but did study business law many years ago. Even though the promises were made orally, these are the same or very similar promises made to others who have gotten scammed too.

REID: Oral contracts are valid in many states. Unfortunately, oral contacts hold no water in my state.

JOHN: This web-site is very valuable in getting other peoples stories that are similar to mine. The most damaging evidence against this group is the charges that they make based on everyones credit card limits (not charging the same price for their services).

REID: I agree. There is an overwhelming amount of other damaging evidence as well. 1. Using a contract which appears to have been drafted by a kindergardener. 2. Not tape recording the entire phone conversation? 3. Sicking a fraudulent collection agency on selected victims to collect on non existent debts. 4. Threatening to sue for merely exercising his or her right as a consumer to dispute the fraudulent charge(s).

JOHN: My 45 days is up tomorrow and at that time I hope to get a refund. I plan on using all these facts when Beck's crew sends their collection agency after me. Yes, Tim, they may take me to court since I did sign their "contract".

REID: NO THEY'RE NOT! This would be the all time most ridiculous lawsuit throughout the history of mankind. One so frivilous, it would be worthy of national television exposure.

One that would ruin this fraudulent business for good. One so ludicrious, that it would make the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute expose their own criminal activities and force them to pay thousands, perhaps millions in restitution.

JOHN: I hope your legal advice doesn't scare off others in just giving up in fear of these "collection con-artists" I do appreciate your research on this subject but disagree that they have a case in court.

REID: This fraudulent company has absolutely no case. According to several managers at several of my credit card company's dispute departments (people who deal with such matters on a daily basis) the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute has zero recourse.

I think that Tim is providing us with an extreme scenario. One last ditch effort for a fraudulent business to try and "save their skin."

JOHN: If anyone went to court to "square off" with them, there is a ton of damaging evidence available just on this site alone that they would have a hard time explaining.

REID: Very true. This fraudulent company has a lot of explaining to do. If this fraudulent company ever attempted to sue someone, I am positive that many victims would jump on the opportunity to collect treble damages.

JOHN: Yes, they may try to damage my credit rating but that is a risk I have to take. Others will have to decide if it is worth the risk to them. As Clint Eastwood once said (in my favorite movie, Dirty Harry) -"Do you feel lucky punk, well do you!! Go ahead make my day!!!"

REID: I like my saying a lot better. "BRING IT ON INBREEDS!"

Until next time, take care John cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Additional response to Tim

Greetings to all!! --First of all, I would like to thank Reid and Tim for this excellent discussion concerning legal matters that some of us will soon be up against once our credit card is reimbursed. It seems apparent that the fraudulent Mentoring of America is trying a new tactic--ignoring the credit card company's complaint and then sending the collection agency after their prey. I am sure that Tim knows what he is talking about concerning contract obligations--that a credit card company has no legal jurisdiction to decide whether the contract can be voided by the customer.

The fact that we got reimbursed does not necessarily mean our fight is over. I think many of our friends are finding this to be true.

I do believe that the burden of proof will then fall back on Beck's crew to prove that their services are valid in claims court for us to be held liable for payment owed to them.

The only proof that they have is our written agreement that we signed. They would have to prove in court what this "valuable" service was that they gave us. I, for example, was never given any options when they signed me up. The salesman (Dean Walker), never gave me an option about different package costs as I was led to believe that the $12,500 was what everyone was charged.

I also was told that only a few people were "chosen" all over the USA based on an indepth interview process (mine lasted 2 hours) and being "selected" was only given to a select few.

I also was told that I would be using "other peoples money" and would be working "hands on" with a private mentor. When asked who the mentor was in my area, I was told "he will be contacting you soon" not telling me that this was to be done by phone.

I was also asked if I would take part in a new infomercial with John Beck telling everyone in this commercial about my "success story" This was very exciting to me! (I always enjoyed public speaking) There was not an ounce of truth to any of these promises that led to my signature or "contract".

I am not a lawyer but did study business law many years ago. Even though the promises were made orally, these are the same or very similar promises made to others who have gotten scammed too.

This web-site is very valuable in getting other peoples stories that are similar to mine. The most damaging evidence against this group is the charges that they make based on everyones credit card limits (not charging the same price for their services).

My 45 days is up tomorrow and at that time I hope to get a refund. I plan on using all these facts when Beck's crew sends their collection agency after me. Yes, Tim, they may take me to court since I did sign their "contract".

I hope your legal advice doesn't scare off others in just giving up in fear of these "collection con-artists" I do appreciate your research on this subject but disagree that they have a case in court.

If anyone went to court to "square off" with them, there is a ton of damaging evidence available just on this site alone that they would have a hard time explaining.

Yes, they may try to damage my credit rating but that is a risk I have to take. Others will have to decide if it is worth the risk to them. As Clint Eastwood once said (in my favorite movie, Dirty Harry) -"Do you feel lucky punk, well do you!! Go ahead make my day!!!"

Thank for your reply

Tim you may have cases that provide validity under certain circumstances.

A question for you Tim; if a contract is fraudulently obtained the contract would then have no validity, correct? Even though this is a question for the court on the case.

For a collection agency to pursue or collect a debt that was illegaly obtained or breeched would certainly be another for the court.

I just mention one case after talking to an attorney that a collection agency was fine by the FTC of around 1.5 million dollars inregard of their illegal collection attempts.
It is my understanding they do not appreciate the collection of debts fraudulently obtained or nonexistant. Again a question for a court.

I have talked with various attorneys in regard in CA, UT, and my home state and neighboring states.

Every ones has thier own individual experiance.

Again, what I said was food for thought.

People have their right to contact the FTC in regard of a collection agency pursueing a fraudulently induce debt; which would be illegal for them to attempt collection with this knowledge. This would likely open them to damages.

There are collections that are with in the law and there is some that are not.

Certainly looking forward to your comments.

My prayers will be with the people that have been scammed.

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

Tim, I really appreciate you trying to fill the many victims of the John Beck scam in on the legalitites of credit card dispute, etc, etc, however, I had a very long discussion with a credit card dispute manager, and just as I've been infoming everyone all along, John Beck has no recourse after one has won a favorable decision in a credit card dispute.

If the John Beck Mentoring Institute were a legitimate business, the story would be a little different. It is the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute that's responsible for the breech of their own agreements. John Beck's only recourse would be attempts at frivolous lawsuits, but even I don't believe he's that desperate.

When a credit card company receives too many disputes on a single merchant, that particular merchant runs the risk of losing their merchant account, or possibly even exposing their own fraudulent activities, therefore, fraudulent business like John Beck's often decide to "just bite the bullet."

What victims of the John Beck scam need to do immediately after receiving a chargeback is to file multiple complaints to Attorney Generals in various states. This is to prevent the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute from attempting to ruin their credit, which they will more than likely attempt to do.

Also, victims need to ignore any and all letters from the fraudulent collection agency known as EPN. EPN is a fraudulent collection agency. Once someone wins a favorable decision in a dispute, the debt is immediately erased. There is no longer any debt owed.

How do I know this? I won a favorable decision, and have not received a threatening letter from the fraudulent EPN. This clearly shows that EPN randomely selects their victims. A legitimate collection agency's collection practices does not differ from one person to another.

Legitimate collection agencies do not chase non existent debts and definitely do not select their victims.

In closing, any and all collection attempts on John Beck's part would be very long shots, but as Tim states, never put anything behind a fraudulent business!

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Tim,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

Tim, you've been following this thread for quite awhile now and you still seem a little adamant about wanting people to believe, that the victims owe John Beck for his fraudulent Real Estate program.

By now you should be able to post a few names of victims that have been taken to court by John Beck and were ordered to pay for his fraudulent services.

Even if what you've stated were true, John Beck would only be taking people to court on the basis of contract loopholes and nothing else. If what you've stated were true, it would totally defeat the purpose of credit card disputes.

Once someone successfully wins a dispute, there is no money owed, the debt is immediately erased, therefore, there is no debt to be collected. There is no money owed plain and simple.

What can be proven in a court of law could just as easily be proven in a credit card dispute. Although I sincerely respect your law experience Tim, I know that even you'd agree, that what you're stating is just a little ubsurd.

There are numerous victims that have already received their money back from the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute and none of them to date, were ever taken to court.

As a matter of fact, I think the majority of victims would gladly accept the invite.

I find it very hard to believe, that John Beck of all people, would fail to sue someone if he thought he had a case. Since your last posting on this same topic, have you Tim, ever heard of someone having to go to court, because he or she failed to pay John Beck after receiving a chargeback?

What would such a lawsuit be based on? If this were the case, the unscrupulous John Beck would have taken all of us to court by now I'm sure.

In laymans term and not attorney lingual, could you Tim, please elaborate on the point you're trying to get across? Explain exactly why you feel John Beck is entitled to someone's money after he or she receives a chargeback.

Explain why you believe the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute has not yet taken any one to court, if they strongly feel they are owed money.

I understand credit card companies not being able to legally nullify contracts, but it's a plain fact that it's every consumers right to dispute credit card charges.

It's the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute that fails to live up to their end of the agreement, so any attempts at a lawsuit would be frivolous. It would be like a drug dealer trying to claim his money in court.

Until next time, take care Tim cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

No State shall pass any law impairing the obligation of contracts. U.S. Const. Art. 1 10.

This provision applies only to legislatures; the impairment of a contractual obligation by the courts does not implicate this clause. Tidal Oil Co. v. Flannigan, 263 U.S. 444 (1924).

A law that imparis the obligation of contracts is one that substantially extinguishes the obligations of a contract. Home Building & Loan Assn. v. Blaisdell, 290 U.S. 398 (1923).

What does this all mean? First, as a general principle, you must understand that the ability to modify financial obligations must be grounded in law. For a credit card company to invalidate a contract, they must have legal authority. This authority could only come legislatively.

But legislatures are not allowed to substantially tamper with contractual rights, only the courts can do this.

The long and short of it: your credit card company has ABSOLUTELY NO SAY in the validity of the contract that gave rise to your debt. The credit card company can refuse to allow their payment system to be used to pay your debt to JB, and thereby release you from any obligation to the credit card company, BUT YOU STILL OWE JB!

The validity of contracts can only be determined by a court of law. Not by your credit card company.

Don't get me wrong, I think JB is a total scam. And I think you SHOULD be absolved of this debt. But this has not happened yet, regardless of what an amateur legal expert may have you believe.

I know the law well, and not because I did some research on line and made some phone calls. I have also conferred with people far more knowledgeable than myself on thsi topic, and they all give the same answer, the one I have jsut given to you.

Find yourself a lawyer. Check law schools in your area, they often run free clinics.

Good luck, keep us updated.

You may what to contact an attorney. A lot of attorneys provided their first visit for free.
You may find one to file suit on a % based on recoverery of damages.

You may choose to contact the FTC, Federal Trade Commission at 877-382-4357 at explain how this occurred. They will provide you with an address and a reference # in regard of your complaint.
You may also want to contact the Attorney General's Office of the problem state along with the state you reside in.

They have taken past actions against collections that have been invalid in their collection attempts and provided the these illegal collection activities with a fine of over a million dollars.

This may pertain to The Fair Debt Collection Practice Act, 15 U.S.C. 1692 and Fair Credit Reporting Act, 15 U.S.C. 1681.

Their is a number of laws that protect consumers in the flagrant violations presented by the various groups.

Try to document and retain all infomation in any correspondence. If you choose to call or write think of what you are saying or writting prior to it takeing place.

One of your best doucuments of calling may be a video cam run by a third party recording from a speaker phone. The date and time provided through a TV news wheather or other public brodcast may be helpfull to eliminate further dispute against evidence of time frame. Some of this may or may not be admissiable as evidence. In the event it contains fraud that carries a one year or more sentence I belive it is, but you may still want to check. This may fall under federal law of wire interception.

You are still better looking at the laws that may pertain to your situation. They likely have or will break several. Document as much as possible.

You may choose to send them a cease and desist letter. Then they should no further contact you.
Then it will be their choice of fileing suit or dropping it.

This is only food for thought may god guide you and give you strength.

later,

You may what to contact an attorney. A lot of attorneys provided their first visit for free.
You may find one to file suit on a % based on recoverery of damages.

You may choose to contact the FTC, Federal Trade Commission at 877-382-4357 at explain how this occurred. They will provide you with an address and a reference # in regard of your complaint.
You may also want to contact the Attorney General's Office of the problem state along with the state you reside in.

They have taken past actions against collections that have been invalid in their collection attempts and provided the these illegal collection activities with a fine of over a million dollars.

This may pertain to The Fair Debt Collection Practice Act, 15 U.S.C. 1692 and Fair Credit Reporting Act, 15 U.S.C. 1681.

Their is a number of laws that protect consumers in the flagrant violations presented by the various groups.

Try to document and retain all infomation in any correspondence. If you choose to call or write think of what you are saying or writting prior to it takeing place.

One of your best doucuments of calling may be a video cam run by a third party recording from a speaker phone. The date and time provided through a TV news wheather or other public brodcast may be helpfull to eliminate further dispute against evidence of time frame. Some of this may or may not be admissiable as evidence. In the event it contains fraud that carries a one year or more sentence I belive it is, but you may still want to check. This may fall under federal law of wire interception.

You are still better looking at the laws that may pertain to your situation. They likely have or will break several. Document as much as possible.

You may choose to send them a cease and desist letter. Then they should no further contact you.
Then it will be their choice of fileing suit or dropping it.

This is only food for thought may god guide you and give you strength.

later,

You may what to contact an attorney. A lot of attorneys provided their first visit for free.
You may find one to file suit on a % based on recoverery of damages.

You may choose to contact the FTC, Federal Trade Commission at 877-382-4357 at explain how this occurred. They will provide you with an address and a reference # in regard of your complaint.
You may also want to contact the Attorney General's Office of the problem state along with the state you reside in.

They have taken past actions against collections that have been invalid in their collection attempts and provided the these illegal collection activities with a fine of over a million dollars.

This may pertain to The Fair Debt Collection Practice Act, 15 U.S.C. 1692 and Fair Credit Reporting Act, 15 U.S.C. 1681.

Their is a number of laws that protect consumers in the flagrant violations presented by the various groups.

Try to document and retain all infomation in any correspondence. If you choose to call or write think of what you are saying or writting prior to it takeing place.

One of your best doucuments of calling may be a video cam run by a third party recording from a speaker phone. The date and time provided through a TV news wheather or other public brodcast may be helpfull to eliminate further dispute against evidence of time frame. Some of this may or may not be admissiable as evidence. In the event it contains fraud that carries a one year or more sentence I belive it is, but you may still want to check. This may fall under federal law of wire interception.

You are still better looking at the laws that may pertain to your situation. They likely have or will break several. Document as much as possible.

You may choose to send them a cease and desist letter. Then they should no further contact you.
Then it will be their choice of fileing suit or dropping it.

This is only food for thought may god guide you and give you strength.

later,

You may what to contact an attorney. A lot of attorneys provided their first visit for free.
You may find one to file suit on a % based on recoverery of damages.

You may choose to contact the FTC, Federal Trade Commission at 877-382-4357 at explain how this occurred. They will provide you with an address and a reference # in regard of your complaint.
You may also want to contact the Attorney General's Office of the problem state along with the state you reside in.

They have taken past actions against collections that have been invalid in their collection attempts and provided the these illegal collection activities with a fine of over a million dollars.

This may pertain to The Fair Debt Collection Practice Act, 15 U.S.C. 1692 and Fair Credit Reporting Act, 15 U.S.C. 1681.

Their is a number of laws that protect consumers in the flagrant violations presented by the various groups.

Try to document and retain all infomation in any correspondence. If you choose to call or write think of what you are saying or writting prior to it takeing place.

One of your best doucuments of calling may be a video cam run by a third party recording from a speaker phone. The date and time provided through a TV news wheather or other public brodcast may be helpfull to eliminate further dispute against evidence of time frame. Some of this may or may not be admissiable as evidence. In the event it contains fraud that carries a one year or more sentence I belive it is, but you may still want to check. This may fall under federal law of wire interception.

You are still better looking at the laws that may pertain to your situation. They likely have or will break several. Document as much as possible.

You may choose to send them a cease and desist letter. Then they should no further contact you.
Then it will be their choice of fileing suit or dropping it.

This is only food for thought may god guide you and give you strength.

later,

Hi. I hope you're doing well. I too have been a victim of John Beck/Mentoring of America, to the tune of $13960.00. I got my credit card company to reverse the charges, and now I've been sent to EPN too.

I tried to explain to them that they were trying to collect a debt that did not exist, because I had a refund agreement and an email from the financial manager at Mentoring of America. EPN told me that it was Mentoring of America that was attempting to give another meaning to the email they sent in which I was "authorized a full refund". Now they're trying to collect over $7000 for the 3 phone calls we received and the 1 we missed.

Ok, now you're up to date with my situation. I have retained an attorney, who is writing nasty letters to attempt to get them to honor the refund agreement.

In the mean time, I've contacted EPN and told them that I dispute the charges. You need to do that, and fax them a letter to 801 223 9499 with your account number from EPN on it, stating that you are officially disputing the charges from whoever it is they're collecting for.

And, you should pull all 3 reports at least every quarter to find out if they are reporting the collection to your credit report. You are entitled to 1 free report a year from each agency and then you have to pay something like $10 for each additional report.

Or you can go to Equifax.com and for $29.95 you can pull a merged report that will have all 3 credit reporting agencies reports. If EPN is reporting then you can contact the agency they reported to (Equifax, Trans Union, Experian) and dispute the information.

If the credit reporting agency finds in your favor (and you'll have to send them copies of all of your documentation) they will remove the item from your report.

However, if your credit score is affected by the eronous reporting from EPN you may be entitled to damages, which is where a good attorney comes in. Call a consumer law attorney and see if he'll take the case pro bono, until there are damages awarded.

I hope this helps. By the way, you can contact Equifax at 800 685 1111, Experian 888 397 3742, and Trans Union at 800 888 4213.

Just follow the prompts to ordre your free report. From then on, I'd order the merged report from Equifax.com just for the convenience. You can download it to your computer and save it or print it. Good luck!

Hey there Jonathan,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

I have never received a letter from the fraudulent collection agency known as EPN. This fact proves that EPN randomely selects their victims.

I have read many reports however, of victims being harassed by EPN, which promted me to contact my credit card caompany and seek advice on what to do in the event I recieved a letter from them.

A women in the dispute department explained to me, that I should make copies of all letters received by EPN. She also explained, that I should keep records of any and all correspondences with EPN.

She assured me that once a cardholder won a favorable decision in a credit card dispute, the debt is immediately erased. It's obvious that one cannot collect on something that ceases to exist.

Contact EPN and notify them that they are to cease all contact, or face being reported to the Federal Nuisance Bureau and the FBI on grounds of harrassment.

As far as EPN ruining your credit however, I'm sorry I cannot elaborate on this. There seems to be nothing that will stop this fraudulent collection agency from conducting these unscrupulous acts.

Try and locate one of the many free legal services in your hometown. Many of these services are booked solid, so you may need to make an apointment hella far in advance.

Your credit card company's dispute department may also be a good resource for all the legalities of collections and so fourth, being that they deal with these issues on a normal basis.

Until next time, take care Jonathan cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Dear Reid,

My Rip off Report can be found at http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff100022.htm

Thanks for the letter, and I've already contacted them last August. I thought that would take care everything for me. But, I recieved another bill from them today, together with something simliar to a phone conversation record, which describes the conversation with someone from the company on the phone. I did not purchase the Beck's product, but instead, I purchse the Jim Rosen product.

Please kindly let me know if I need to have any further actions to EPN. I know that they are collecting something that does not exist since my credit card company has already reverse the charge for me last year. However, I am very tired and frustrated with they bills and letters. Also, I am afraid that it might show on my credit report. I am a student, and I don't have money to hire an attorney. Your kind help will be highly appreciated. God bless you.

Hey there Jonathan,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

Below I have posted a sample letter, that you should send to the fraudulent EPN collection agency. Contact the FTC and inquire before doing so.

According to the FTC rules governing credit card transactions and consumer rights, once a credit card dipute has been resolved in the consumers favor, there no longer remains a "debt" to be collected.

Any "debt" ceases to exist. Kapoot! Nada! Any and all legitimate collection agencies are aware of this and would definitely not attempt to collect on non-existant "debts".

Report this fraudulent EPN collection agency to the FTC and Attorney General in your state, then send this scam collection agency a cease and desist letter. Let them know, that they are to discontinue all contact from hear on out.

Any attempt to contact you, other than notice of any litigation, will result in a lawsuit of your very own.

Whatever you decide to do however, DO NOT send this scam EPN company any money.

The fact that EPN are representing the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute and only attempt to collect money at random, and from a selected few, proves that they are nothing but a fraud company.

SAMPLE LETTER TO COLLECTION AGENCIES:

Today's Date

Your Name
Your Address

Collector's Name
Collector's Address

Dear {insert name of collector or company},

I am writing in response to your (letter or phone call) dated {insert date}, (copy enclosed) because I do not believe that I owe what you say I owe.

This is the first I've heard from you, or any other company regarding this matter therefore, in accordance with Section 809 - Validating Debts of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, I respectfully request that you provide me, in writing, the following:

What the money you say I owe is for;
Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe; Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;

Identify the original creditor; Provide a verification or copy of any judgment (if applicable); Show me that you are licensed in my state, and provide me with your license numbers (if applicable).

Be advised that I am fully aware of my rights under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and the Fair Credit Reporting Act. For instance, I know that:

You cannot add interest or fees accept those allowed by the original contract and state law.
You do not have to respond to this dispute except to tell me, that you either intend to cease your collection efforts or to pursue other legal means of collecting this debt.

Should you pursue a judgment without validating this debt, I will inform the judge and your case will be dismissed based on your failure to follow the FDCPA. If your pursuit for a judgement is found to be frivilous, you may expect an enormous countersuit.

Any attempt to collect this debt without validating it, violates the FDCPA. Be advised that I intend to record all phone calls, keep all correspondence and will not hesitate to report violations to my State Attorney General, the Federal Trade Commission and the Better Business Bureau.

I have disputed this debt; therefore, until validated you know your information concerning this debt is inaccurate. Thus, if you have already reported this debt to any credit-reporting agency (CRA) or Credit Bureau (CB) then, you must immediately inform them this debt is in dispute.

Reporting information that you know to be inaccurate or failing to report information correctly violates the FCRA 1681s-2.

If you do NOT own the rights to collect this debt, I demand that you immediately send a copy of this dispute letter to the original creditor, that you say I owe money too, so they are also aware of my dispute with this debt.

Finally, in accordance with section 805(c) - Ceasing Collections, of the Fair Debt Collection Act, do not contact me about this or any other matter, except by official mail and then only to advise me, that your debt collection efforts are being terminated, or that you are taking specific actions allowed by law.

Signature here
Your Printed Name
__________________________________________________
Any and all LEGITIMATE collection agencies are aware, that it's impossible to collect a "debt", that ceases to exist.

Once a consumer has a dispute resolved in his or her favor, the "debt" is erased. There's no longer a "debt" to be collected. The "debt" is NADA!

Only those with a vested interest, and or something to gain, would claim otherwise, such as employees of the fraudulent EPN, or anyone affiliated with EPN, for they want consumers to believe, that EPN is a legitimate collection agency and are conforming to the laws and ethics of collection.

Keep copies of all pertinent documentation pertaining to your dispute and the obvious reason for the favorable outcome.

Until next time, take care Jonathan along with Everyone else cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Who can give me some advice.

After getting my money back for about 2 weeks, I received a collection letter from EPN, UT. I am not very sure who the collector is, but it shows John Becks Amazing Profit on the letter, the amount is 1,140.00+21.23 (Finance Charge). So, I assumed it is something about the Rosen's Web Ad. Being honest, I am quite tired of fighting those liars, but I know I cannot give up. I will fight them because they deceive the consumers' hard earned money.

Can someone tell me what I should do? Also, the letter is not to my name, it is to my nick name. So, that is why I am wonder if the information EPN has is valid.

Who can give me some advice.

After getting my money back for about 2 weeks, I received a collection letter from EPN, UT. I am not very sure who the collector is, but it shows John Becks Amazing Profit on the letter, the amount is 1,140.00+21.23 (Finance Charge). So, I assumed it is something about the Rosen's Web Ad. Being honest, I am quite tired of fighting those liars, but I know I cannot give up. I will fight them because they deceive the consumers' hard earned money.

Can someone tell me what I should do? Also, the letter is not to my name, it is to my nick name. So, that is why I am wonder if the information EPN has is valid.

Hey there Tim along with Everyone else,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

TIM: Which leads me to my next point. Reid is thoroughly convinced that a refund via your credit card company discharges your obligation under the contract.

REID: Only partially true. I am thoroughly convinced, that the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute are in breech of their own contract, which appears to have been drafted by someone with very expertise in the area of contracts.

Anyone and everyone, that have received it would definitely agree. The point in which I'm trying to convey, is that once a dispute has been resolved in the consumer's favor, there no longer is a "debt" to be collected.

Any debt ceases to exist, therefore any and all legitimate collection agencies would not even bother attempting to collect on an erased (non existance)"debt".

This issue has been confirmed by both my credit card company's dispute department, as well as several FTC officials.

I'm not an expert on contracts, but am aware of the fact, that there are many elements required in a contract (aside from an offer and acceptance)in order for the contract to be considered legally binding upon the agreeing parties.

I've kept a copy of the half page contract and can assure everyone, that it contains no such "cop out" clause, which would ensure the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute a victory in court.

As far as any legal remedies, which the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute decides to take remains entirely up to them.

I am positive however, that anything and everything, that could be proven behind closed doors (court), could've been and definitely would've been proven through our dispute.

It makes zero sense for any company to pull out of a dispute and seek other remedies, when a dispute is nothing but an absolute leveled playing field for consumers and legitimate businesses to resolve such issues.

In my dispute, just as I knew they would, the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute attempted to use my signed agreement against me, even though it had nothing to do with the reason why I disputed the charge in the first place.

I have not once denied enrolling into their program, therefore, their valiant attempt to have their irrelevant items pass as legitimate counters, were obviously nothing but desperation and last ditch efforts to win a favorable decission.

TIM: As a law trained individual, I cannot accept this statement as it goes against some very basic principles of payment law.

REID: I cannot agree nor disagree with this point, for I am not a law trained individual. All I can do is state actual and factual happenings, tips, suggestions, and opinions on the best possible way to remedy the situation.

TIM: Reid's comments would be accurate if you were refunded money due to a billing error, but I have searched and searched and can find no authority stating that a credit card refund received for lack of quality or delivery discharges the underlying obligation (your obligation to pay).

REID: Tim, wouldn't you agree, that if a credit card refund received, did not discharge ones obligation to pay, that it would defeat the entire purpose of disputes?

Again, It makes zero sense for any company to pull out of a dispute and seek other remedies, when a dispute is nothing but an absolute leveled playing field for consumers and legitimate businesses to resolve such issues.

TIM: I have also spoken to people who practice in commercial law and they all agree that JB has retained his rights under the contract even though you received a refund via your credit card company. For a more detailed discussion on this matter, see the John Beck complaint in the "false advertisements" category.

REID: I can't agree nor disagree with this statement. Again, the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute are at liberty to seek out whatever means they feel necessary, despite their shady intentions behind the reasons for doing so.

TIM: If you were to go to court and defend yourself against an action by JB or his collection agent you would probably stand a pretty good chance of success. The credit card refund could certainly function as relevant evidence in your favor.

REID: At this point, one should definitely not put anything past the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute, their collection agency and or their intentions.

TIM: The danger you face, however, is the dreaded "default judgment." If JB files suit against you, and you fail to defend yourself, he will automatically win regardless of any defenses you may have. And default judgments are only appealable for procedural errors, such as lack of jurisdiction or notice. Again, see the previously mentioned report.

REID: Good advice. If you are ever served, you'd better be willing to show up and prepared to defend yourself. This means having all of your pertinent documents, contracts, etc, etc, in order.

TIM: My advice then: Copy Tracy's beatifully written letter above (changing words to fit your given situation of course) and send it to the appropriate persons. If they continue collection activities, send a cease and decist letter. And most importantly: If you are served with notice of a pending lawsuit, DO NOT IGNORE IT! Your best bet at that point would be to hire a lawyer. At any rate, however, you must make sure to show up for court.

REID: Important that you heed and follow these instructions to the T.

TIM: A note on class action lawsuits: People done wrong as consumers often like the idea of class action lawsuits, bet they may not be in your best interest. Consider this hypothetical situation: you and 300 other consumers go after JB for various monetary reliefs. The ultimate reward received by a large group of people will be more than JB can afford to pay out. He will likely declare bankruptcy, in which case it is likely that nobody will get anything. On the other hand, if you sue as an individual your reward is not likely to be so high that he will want to declare bankruptcy, and you thus stand a much better chance of actually receiving your money.

REID: Individual or class action may very well depend on the individuals themselves and or their situation.

TIM: Reid, it's good to see that you are keeping up the fight.

Good luck!

REID: Thank you very much Tim, for keeping this discussion going.

Until next time, take care Tim along with Everyone else cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Maribeth, you asked whether a judgment could be entered against you even though there was no signed agreement and you have not received promised materials.

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: There is a common law principle known as the "statute of frauds" that requires the signature of the party to be bound by a contract before the contract can be enforced against that person. This only applies to contracts for over $5000 (and a few other transactions that are irrelevant here). The statute of frauds, however, is a dying animal, and is not a very viable defense to most contracts anymore. Nowadays a tender of payment (paying for the product) is often seen as sufficient evidence to show that you intended to be bound by the contract. In other words, you probably don't have a defense based on lack of signature because other acts indicate that you intended to be bound by an unsigned agreement.

Your best defense lies in not having received what you were promised. However, a court could find that you are still liable for JB's "partial performance." Or they may not. The law is never definite, and one can not know the outcome of a case until it has actually been tried.

Which leads me to my next point. Reid is thoroughly convinced that a refund via your credit card company discharges your obligation under the contract. As a law trained individual, I cannot accept this statement as it goes against some very basic principles of payment law. Reid's comments would be accurate if you were refunded money due to a billing error, but I have searched and searched and can find no authority stating that a credit card refund received for lack of quality or delivery discharges the underlying obligation (your obligation to pay).

I have also spoken to people who practice in commercial law and they all agree that JB has retained his rights under the contract even though you received a refund via your credit card company. For a more detailed discussion on this matter, see the John Beck complaint in the "false advertisements" category.

If you were to go to court and defend yourself against an action by JB or his collection agent you would probably stand a pretty good chance of success. The credit card refund could certainly function as relevant evidence in your favor.

The danger you face, however, is the dreaded "default judgment." If JB files suit against you, and you fail to defend yourself, he will automatically win regardless of any defenses you may have. And default judgments are only appealable for procedural errors, such as lack of jurisdiction or notice. Again, see the previously mentioned report.

My advice then: Copy Tracy's beatifully written letter above (changing words to fit your given situation of course) and send it to the appropriate persons. If they continue collection activities, send a cease and decist letter. And most importantly: If you are served with notice of a pending lawsuit, DO NOT IGNORE IT! Your best bet at that point would be to hire a lawyer. At any rate, however, you must make sure to show up for court.

A note on class action lawsuits: People done wrong as consumers often like the idea of class action lawsuits, bet they may not be in your best interest. Consider this hypothetical situation: you and 300 other consumers go after JB for various monetary reliefs. The ultimate reward received by a large group of people will be more than JB can afford to pay out. He will likely declare bankruptcy, in which case it is likely that nobody will get anything. On the other hand, if you sue as an individual your reward is not likely to be so high that he will want to declare bankruptcy, and you thus stand a much better chance of actually receiving your money.

Reid, it's good to see that you are keeping up the fight.

Good luck!

Hi All,

Maribeth, you and I are in the same boat right now. We were contacted by "EPN" regarding a collection. They want us to pay for the four of seven sessions we did receive (not including the extra 10 sessions we were promised after our first mentor dropped off the face of the earth). I need a mathemetician for this but they figured that we owe $2800 of the total $3375 for the four of seven (or really 20) sessions we were supposed to get. They do crack me up sometimes. I'm all for a class action law suit by the way. Also, in a previous rebuttal I asked the John Beck Employees to answer some questions and I haven't seen a response from them. Hmmmm. Here is a copy of our dispute to EPN and no, we haven't heard back from the either:

To: EPN, INC
Attention: Blake Spencer & Sydney ??
Account #: 534323


This letter is in dispute of the claim by your client, John Beck Amazing Profits Mentoring Institute or John Beck Free and Clear or Mentoring of America, whichever name they go by on any given day. This claim is being disputed because the above said company (s) are in breach of contract. It's obvious your client has no idea what that means and incase you don't know or you don't understand what that means, breach of contract is a legal concept in which a binding agreement or bargained-for exchange is not honored by one of the parties to the contract by non-performance or interference with the other party's performance. You client breached or did not honor said contract on 3 different occasions.
Your client first entered into agreement with us for 7 coaching sessions in February of 2004. Of these coaching sessions, your client only bothered to participate or complete 4 of the 7 sessions. Your client once again in May of 2004 entered into agreement as a resolution to their failure to honor their end of the contract This agreement was arranged between John Cluff and myself. (see enclosed document) Your client once again failed to uphold their end of the contract. We did not hear from them until we demanded our money back. Once again, your client, in June of 2004, offered 3 more mentoring sessions. Kindell Graham negotiated this agreement. (see enclosed document) And true to form, your client failed to uphold their end of the agreement. They again, did not contact us for these sessions. It's obvious, your client entered in to each of these never intending to fulfill their agreement.

In lieu of your clients breach of contract we are prepared at this time to make this offer to EPN INC and it's client, John Beck Amazing Profits Mentoring Institute or John Beck Free and Clear or Mentoring of America, whatever they wish to be called:

First, if your client will agree to cease and desist their pursuit of further financial gains from us, we will agree not to file suit against them for breach of contract. This entails no further threats in any form or fashion from EPN Inc, their associates, affiliates or subsidiaries along with their client, John Beck Amazing Profits Mentoring Institute or John Beck Free and Clear or Mentoring of America, or any fictious company they currently are or become in the future or any one associated with any of these said companies. Both must agree to never make any attempts damage our name or post any derogatory information to our credit file, nor will they post any fictious claims, whether public or private anywhere at anytime now or in the future. Also, John Beck Amazing Profits Mentoring Institute or John Beck Free and Clear or Mentoring of America, or whatever company they attempt to hide behind in the future, will NEVER contact us via telephone, mail, email, in person, third party, or any other fashion.

Formal acceptance of this agreement is expected in the form of a notarized letter stating agreement to all terms and must be signed by officials from both EPN Inc, or a representative of their associates, affiliates or subsidiaries along with John Beck Amazing Profits Mentoring Institute or John Beck Free and Clear or Mentoring of America.

However, if you and / or your client refuse the above offer, we will be forced to retain legal counsel and file suit against John Beck Amazing Profits Mentoring Institute or John Beck Free and Clear or Mentoring of America, for breach of contract. This litigation will also seek special damages monetary costs or losses suffered or not realized, as claimed by the false statements of your client along with the return on investment they promised. We will also seek general damages for emotional trauma, loss of reputation and loss of enjoyment of life. Further we will seek punitive damages up to and including, that your client be forced to stop their false advertising, and cease doing business as John Beck Amazing Profits Mentoring Institute or John Beck Free and Clear or Mentoring of America or any of their internet based companies as well.
With this, if your client refuses to accept this agreement and persists with this harassment, we will also seek criminal charges as well for extortion.

Please let us know your decision.

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

SAMPLE LETTER TO COLLECTION AGENCIES:

Today's Date

Your Name
Your Address

Collector's Name
Collector's Address

Dear {insert name of collector or company},

I am writing in response to your (letter or phone call) dated {insert date}, (copy enclosed) because I do not believe that I owe what you say I owe.

This is the first I've heard from you, or any other company regarding this matter therefore, in accordance with Section 809 - Validating Debts of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, I respectfully request that you provide me, in writing, the following:

What the money you say I owe is for;
Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe; Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;

Identify the original creditor; Provide a verification or copy of any judgment (if applicable); Show me that you are licensed in my state, and provide me with your license numbers (if applicable).

Be advised that I am fully aware of my rights under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and the Fair Credit Reporting Act. For instance, I know that:

You cannot add interest or fees accept those allowed by the original contract and state law.
You do not have to respond to this dispute except to tell me, that you either intend to cease your collection efforts or to pursue other legal means of collecting this debt.

Should you pursue a judgment without validating this debt, I will inform the judge and your case will be dismissed based on your failure to follow the FDCPA. If your pursuit for a judgement is found to be frivilous, you may expect an enormous countersuit.

Any attempt to collect this debt without validating it, violates the FDCPA. Be advised that I intend to record all phone calls, keep all correspondence and will not hesitate to report violations to my State Attorney General, the Federal Trade Commission and the Better Business Bureau.

I have disputed this debt; therefore, until validated you know your information concerning this debt is inaccurate. Thus, if you have already reported this debt to any credit-reporting agency (CRA) or Credit Bureau (CB) then, you must immediately inform them this debt is in dispute.

Reporting information that you know to be inaccurate or failing to report information correctly violates the FCRA 1681s-2.

If you do NOT own the rights to collect this debt, I demand that you immediately send a copy of this dispute letter to the original creditor, that you say I owe money too, so they are also aware of my dispute with this debt.

Finally, in accordance with section 805(c) - Ceasing Collections, of the Fair Debt Collection Act, do not contact me about this or any other matter, except by official mail and then only to advise me, that your debt collection efforts are being terminated, or that you are taking specific actions allowed by law.



Signature here
Your Printed Name
__________________________________________________
Any and all LEGITIMATE collection agencies are aware, that it's impossible to collect a "debt", that ceases to exist.

Once a consumer has a dispute resolved in his or her favor, the "debt" is erased. There's no longer a "debt" to be collected. The "debt" is NADA!

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

Thank you Jude, for taking the time to post the lovely sample letter.

I have taken it upon myself to post yet another sample letter, that would possibly make it easier for any and all victims of the fraudulent John Beck "mentoring" program.

SAMPLE DISPUTE LETTER:

Today's Date

Your Full Name
Current Address
Current Phone Number

Name of Credit Card Company
Mailing Address (check your statement for the correct address! It's usually different than the one you mail payments too)
City, State, Zip

Dear {Insert name of Credit Card Company from statement}

I am disputing an item on my statement, dated {insert date of statement}. Please note that this letter is dated within the 60-day limit required under the Fair Credit Billing Act. Please use the following information to investigate my claim:

{Insert your name as it appears on your credit card statement}

Date of Statement: {Insert the date from the statement you are disputing}

Account Number: {Insert credit card account number}

Date of Transaction: {Insert date from statement}

Description of Transaction {Copy from statement}

Describe Error: {If disputing dollar amount, insert amount using $0.0 format}

{Insert explanation of why you believe an error occurred}: Services had not been delivered according to agreement. Deceptive, high pressure and unsubstantiated sales pitches used to lure you into their fraudulent program, etc etc.

I understand that you have 30 days to respond and 90 days to either resolve my dispute or inform me in writing of why the bill is correct. Until then, I will pay any amount due except for the amount in question and await your letter explaining all actions taken concerning this dispute.

If your investigation shows the information to be accurate, I respectfully request that you provide an explanation of your findings, a statement of what I owe, including any finance charges that have accumulated and any minimum payments I've missed while questioning this bill. If I agree with your findings, you can expect my payment in the amount you say I owe within the 10-day limit allowed under the Fair Credit Billing Act.



Sincerely,




Signature
Printed Name

_______________________________________

Until next time, take care Jude along with Everyone else cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Thanks for the Help! Here is what I have already Sent.

Hi Jude!

Thank you for your suggestion! I have already sent a letter to the Collection Agency, but have not heard back from them.
Here is what I wrote:

To Whom It May Concern,

This letter is to inform you that I am disputing the validity of the debt of $5753.15 charged to me by John Beck's Amazing Profits.

I was also told by Jeremy Foote, the John Beck employee who originally signed me up for this program, that my money would be refunded since the mentors I had been assigned to were too busy to help me. This still is yet to happen.

In no way did I receive $5,753.15 in materials or mentoring (coaching) by this company or any of its representatives.

I have also contacted the Better Business Bureau, 60 Minutes, and other various agencies of this matter of being charged for something I never received.

What do You think? Should I send them another such as yours?, or let a sleeping dog lie until I hear back from the CPD?

Thank You all again for all of your support and help. This whole thing has just made me sick with worry.

OK! here is what you do first congrats on getting your mney back from the credit card company GOOD JOB!> second here is how you handle the collection agency. DO NOT ADMIT TO PURCHASING ANYTHING, COLLECTION AGENCIES (SOME) RECORD THERE CALLS. TYPE UP A LETTER THAT SAYS THIS:


TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN,

PLEASE FORWARD ME VALIDATION AND VERIFICATION OF THE DEBT YOU ALLEDGE I OWE AND THEN CEASE AND DESIST ALL FURTHER COMMUNICATIONS WITH ME. IF YOUR DO NOT REMOVE THE NEGATIVE REMARKS THAT MAY BE APPEARING ON MY CREDIT FILE I WILL FILE A FEDERAL LAWSUIT FOR VIOLATIONS OF THE FDCPA AND FCRA. I AM NOW REPRESENTED BY AN ATTORNEY.


SEND THE LETTER BY REGULAR MAIL.
THEN SEND THE LETER BY CERTIFIED MAIL RETURN RCT.
IF

OK! here is what you do first congrats on getting your mney back from the credit card company GOOD JOB!> second here is how you handle the collection agency. DO NOT ADMIT TO PURCHASING ANYTHING, COLLECTION AGENCIES (SOME) RECORD THERE CALLS. TYPE UP A LETTER THAT SAYS THIS:


TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN,

PLEASE FORWARD ME VALIDATION AND VERIFICATION OF THE DEBT YOU ALLEDGE I OWE AND THEN CEASE AND DESIST ALL FURTHER COMMUNICATIONS WITH ME. IF YOUR DO NOT REMOVE THE NEGATIVE REMARKS THAT MAY BE APPEARING ON MY CREDIT FILE I WILL FILE A FEDERAL LAWSUIT FOR VIOLATIONS OF THE FDCPA AND FCRA. I AM NOW REPRESENTED BY AN ATTORNEY.


SEND THE LETTER BY REGULAR MAIL.
THEN SEND THE LETER BY CERTIFIED MAIL RETURN RCT.
IF

OK! here is what you do first congrats on getting your mney back from the credit card company GOOD JOB!> second here is how you handle the collection agency. DO NOT ADMIT TO PURCHASING ANYTHING, COLLECTION AGENCIES (SOME) RECORD THERE CALLS. TYPE UP A LETTER THAT SAYS THIS:


TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN,

PLEASE FORWARD ME VALIDATION AND VERIFICATION OF THE DEBT YOU ALLEDGE I OWE AND THEN CEASE AND DESIST ALL FURTHER COMMUNICATIONS WITH ME. IF YOUR DO NOT REMOVE THE NEGATIVE REMARKS THAT MAY BE APPEARING ON MY CREDIT FILE I WILL FILE A FEDERAL LAWSUIT FOR VIOLATIONS OF THE FDCPA AND FCRA. I AM NOW REPRESENTED BY AN ATTORNEY.


SEND THE LETTER BY REGULAR MAIL.
THEN SEND THE LETER BY CERTIFIED MAIL RETURN RCT.
IF

OK! here is what you do first congrats on getting your mney back from the credit card company GOOD JOB!> second here is how you handle the collection agency. DO NOT ADMIT TO PURCHASING ANYTHING, COLLECTION AGENCIES (SOME) RECORD THERE CALLS. TYPE UP A LETTER THAT SAYS THIS:


TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN,

PLEASE FORWARD ME VALIDATION AND VERIFICATION OF THE DEBT YOU ALLEDGE I OWE AND THEN CEASE AND DESIST ALL FURTHER COMMUNICATIONS WITH ME. IF YOUR DO NOT REMOVE THE NEGATIVE REMARKS THAT MAY BE APPEARING ON MY CREDIT FILE I WILL FILE A FEDERAL LAWSUIT FOR VIOLATIONS OF THE FDCPA AND FCRA. I AM NOW REPRESENTED BY AN ATTORNEY.


SEND THE LETTER BY REGULAR MAIL.
THEN SEND THE LETER BY CERTIFIED MAIL RETURN RCT.
IF

Hey there Maribeth,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

EPN is definitely a scam collection agency. There have been many others besides myself, that have easily won our disputes, regarding the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute.

The John Beck Mentoring Institute is definitely without a doubt a scam. Their every actions indicate, that their operation is fraudulent and it's definitely not just a matter of ones opinion.

If you are being harrassed by the fraudulent EPN collection agency, do report them to the FTC. EPN is without a doubt, a fraudulent collection agency and like the John Beck scam, their every action indicates blatant fraud.

A FEW OBVIOUS INDICATIONS OF EPN'S FRAUDULENT ACTIVITIES:

1. They only attempt to collect from certain victims? LOL.

2. Unlike before, the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute now sends disputes directly to EPN, as opposed to resolving customer issues through a dispute?

Anyone can see through the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute's transparant attempt to evade all credit card disputes from here on out, because they have absolutely nothing, that could prove a consumer's dispute false or to the contrary.

3. Once a dispute has been resolved in the consumers favor, there no longer remains a "debt", therefore, there's no longer a "debt" to be collected. Any "debt" ceases to exist. This information has been resourced directly from an FTC official.

The fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute is obviously just attempting to purposefully bypass credit disputes, because they are aware of the fact, that they are unable to win any favorable outcomes.

Contact the FTC, regarding the legalities of credit card transactions and consumer rights in general.

4. Based in Provo Utah? LOL.

In closing, do not pay any collection agency monies, before contacting the FTC to inquire about the legitimacy of the collection agency in question. If your dispute has been resolved in your favor, you haven't a thing to worry about.

Be sure however, to keep accurate documents to prove, not only the outcome of your dispute, but all documents which led to the decision of the successful outcome.

The fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute has now made it a lot easier for their victims to recoop their money, by deliberately evading what is the consumers right to dispute "quality of service".

Let us all hope, that they decide to continue sending all of their claims to this same fraudulent collection agency.

Until next time, take care Maribeth cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

EPN
746 E 1910 South
Provo Utah, 84606
1-801-223-9996 x534323
Blake Spencer