JP Morgan Chase Bank Bank gains monitarily from excessive NSF fees charged to customers because they back out and reapply debits that have already posted. Nationwide

... and I can't stand them!

Last week I booked a day trip for $112. It posted immediately after I made the reservations. This past Monday however, the posting disappeared. It just wasn't there. Now, I knew it would reappear eventually, so I didn't do anything stupid like spend the money. But seriously, why would it just disappear out of the blue???

If the 'disappearing transactions' wasn't enough to drive me nuts, the rearangement of debits is!

I haven't overdrafted with Chase, so I'm not upset in that respect. But, the fact that they rearrange from day-to-day debits, deposits, and withdrawals. This makes it very difficult for me to track my spending.

This is what I'm dealing with today:

When I left work yesterday, I had a positive balance of $928. I made an online purchase for $35, bringing my balance to $893. All the transactions I had made within the past week were posted, so I assumed that my balance would be the same in the morning. Wrong. When I arrived at work I found that my balance was actually $818. So I'm $75 short, and can't seem to figure out why.

In addition, I noticed on Monday that a restaurant I ate at had charged me twice... for two different amounts. When I called Chase, they said that it was normal for this to happen and one should drop off when the payment was cleared (they were still pending). Well, the two pendings dropped and a brand new total charge (the correct amount) posted. OK, fine.

I deposited $645 (cash) into my account on Tuesday. That should have been at the top of my transactions list, as that was most recent. And it was, yesterday. For some reason today, my deposit dropped down three spaces, making it not match my own records because they added to an older balance that I had, and moved a $141 transaction from last Thursday above yesterdays deposit. Now it's difficult for me to compare my records to theirs, thus I still can't figure out why I'm short $75.

This bank is as ridiculous as US Bank, Bank of America, and all those other big-wigs out there. I'm going back to the credit union way of life-- where I get small time banking and personal service.

Oh, and one more thing: Chase won't immediately release funds when you deposit your paycheck like WAMU always did. If it's not a Chase check or if you don't have matching funds in your account, they hold it 24-48 hours. I simply avoid that by cashing my check at the bank that the check is drawn on and deposit the cash into my Chase account.

all banks will tell you that the online and/or ATM balance and information is just a tool to help you see what has posted and make sure fraud has not occurred on your account. The only place you need and can look for your balance is your register.

The thing that really gets to me is the whole disappearance of transactions. I had heard about this issue through other people I know, and decided to keep a look out for it myself. I'm going to make up some numbers to show you roughly what had happened to me.

I go online to view my account balance, and it displays me having $600. Seeing that I clearly have enough money for a say $200 purchase, I go ahead and order the said product. It now shows a pending purchase of $200, and an available balance of $400. Simple enough.

However, a few days later I decide to check on the progress. According to the website that I had made the purchase from, the product was sucessfully billed and shipped out, but when I go back to Chase Online, I notice the pending fee has disappeared (and thus the available balance is back to $600). I figured this would only hold true for a day, but it remained this way for about 4 or 5 days until it finally decided to show up again. If I had made a purchase of over $400 when it says my "available balance" is well over that, I would have been in trouble.

Given the reliance on technology that is present now a days, is it really fair to assume that people are still going to manually keep track of all their available balances or what not? I think that the transactions should atleast remain visible as pending to prevent people from mistaking the amount of money they have available as something greater then it truely is.

Personally, I didn't in this case (or ever) overdraft, but I can definately see this causing problems for people that rely on what is showing up online prior to making purchases.

Banks have been posting the largest debit amounts for some years now. If you question it, they will tell you that it so your most important bills, such as your mortgage, will be sure to be paid, since something like a mortgage is usually much larger than other debits. Where this bit of propaganda falls through is that banks that pay debits anyway, even with insufficient funds in the account, will tell you the same thing. So therefore, it doesn't matter what order it's in, it would be paid regardless. This rearranging of the debits is simply to generate not one NSF fee, but multiple fees. I keep my own records in my checkbook register even though I don't write checks. I have seen a couple of times where using the old-fashioned way of keeping a checkbook shows a balance (because I post them in the order they are paid), and I end up with an NSF fee or two. When I complain and show them in my check register the math, I get that same line, and of course even with it in writing like that, they act dense and you can't convince them. This was never a problem before computers when banks posted in order debits were received as they should.

This practice is not illegal, but highly unethical and is simply to generate more income for the bank. No other reason. It should be illegal, but because it's such a huge industry, the Federal government won't touch it. I know especially in today's economic climate, this is very difficult to do for many, and there are many where this is impossible, but if there is any way to not go under about a $100 balance in your account, do it. That is the only way you can guard against this type of government sponsored theft.

And I've seen it where a hold will be there, drop off, and then reappear. If the merchant doesn't settle their batch, it will then post.

Or a worse case scenario: you pay at the pump, it's pre-authorized, but then the system drops the transaction to finalize. This happened to my company one month ago, and the final transactions will be posting to people's accounts this week. Things happen, but we are owed that money.

If you kept track of your purchases like checks, this wouldn't happen. If you are saying that it was posted but then reversed, you should see the money go back in your account to cover it. But if you then spend that money thinking that you had it, well, that's not the bank's fault. Banks will occasionally try to reclear transactions - I've had that happened with checks, and they will clear, but then the bank will give us a credit for their error. I don't see that with what you are describing here.

Is not to rely 100% on the bank to tell you what your balance is. You should rely on your own record keeping.

As far as the posting order goes, the bank can post in any order they want to. And most if not all banks post from largest to smallest.

However, could you give us more information on the items that 'posted' and were then reversed. It could be purchases that were done with debit card that created a hold. If the merchant does not request their money within the period of time the hold is in effect (usually 2-3 business days) then the hold will expire allowing that money to flow back to your available balance. But whenever the merchant requests payment the bank must send it to them. So were these items that were on hold and disappeared or were hey indeed posted to your account then reversed and then posted again?

As far as the posting order goes, the bank can post in any order they want to. And most if not all banks post from largest to smallest.

However, could you give us more information on the items that 'posted' and were then reversed. It could be purchases that were done with debit card that created a hold. If the merchant does not request their money within the period of time the hold is in effect (usually 2-3 business days) then the hold will expire allowing that money to flow back to your available balance. But whenever the merchant requests payment the bank must send it to them. So were these items that were on hold and disappeared or were hey indeed posted to your account then reversed and then posted again?

As far as the posting order goes, the bank can post in any order they want to. And most if not all banks post from largest to smallest.

However, could you give us more information on the items that 'posted' and were then reversed. It could be purchases that were done with debit card that created a hold. If the merchant does not request their money within the period of time the hold is in effect (usually 2-3 business days) then the hold will expire allowing that money to flow back to your available balance. But whenever the merchant requests payment the bank must send it to them. So were these items that were on hold and disappeared or were hey indeed posted to your account then reversed and then posted again?

As far as the posting order goes, the bank can post in any order they want to. And most if not all banks post from largest to smallest.

However, could you give us more information on the items that 'posted' and were then reversed. It could be purchases that were done with debit card that created a hold. If the merchant does not request their money within the period of time the hold is in effect (usually 2-3 business days) then the hold will expire allowing that money to flow back to your available balance. But whenever the merchant requests payment the bank must send it to them. So were these items that were on hold and disappeared or were hey indeed posted to your account then reversed and then posted again?