KAM Motorsports, Inc. Nick Vega and Kevin M. Be very aware of odometer tampering as it voids any remaining factory warranty by the manufacturer! Internet

I read this original report a few weeks back, and I have to admit that I almost passed on buying a car from these guys because of it.  I was bidding on a 2008 Camry that they had listed on E-Bay, and was trying to find out more about the company - hence stumbling across this site an this report.  I decided to take the plunge anyway, and wound up buying the car.  In fairness and to provide another viewpoint of the company, I thought I'd share my experience here.

In a nutshell, I couldn't be happier with my new (to me) car or my experience with KAM Motorsports.  They were up-front and honest with me regarding all the questions I asked via email and phone before the sale.   Coming all the way from West Virginia to pick up the car in person, my situation was probably more challenging than most.  We had to get the paperwork exchange done, I had to get my bank on board, insurance, etc., etc. This wound up being a very smooth and efficient process, with a little give and take on both sides. 

I arrived at the Ronkonkoma LIRR station at O-Dark-30 (5 hours earlier than planned), and Nick re-arranged his schedule to pick me up and bring me to the office to complete the transaction.  Within 20 minutes of getting there I was on my way home.  The car was clean and gorgeous and ready to go.  Before I left I noted that the mileage on the odo was exactly as advertised.

Shortly after I started driving I noticed that the driver's side visor was missing.  I called Nick on my cell and he was able to locate the visor at his shop - unfortunately it was damaged and not worth trying to re-install.  Nick called Toyota and arranged to have a new one shipped to my home at his own expense.  A week later a brand new visor came via UPS. 

I can't speak for the original complainant's experience, but I can say that I found these guys to be honest and easy to work with, and I'd definitely buy another car from them again.  If I wasn't happy with the experience I wouldn't have taken the time to write this.  If you're curious, the car may still be viewable on E-Bay, item number: 200530183689

Bob

I feel bad that you had to deal with this.

The poster of this complaint is a arrogant lying idiot. I very rarely side with a dealership..and perhaps my opinion does not carry much weight...but all the evidence CLEARLY shows....that you did everything right...and this poster is just trying anyway possible to discredit you.

No one in their right mind tampers with an odometer reading to roll it forward..and no one can have a legitimate claim of odometer discrepancy as a reason to refund..when they were well aware of the mileage on the odometer at time of test drive and then left a deposit. This poster simply does not want to take responsibility for their negligence, or any financial loss this may have caused, or will cause you.

Honestly, it is probably not worth your time to pursue a defamation or slander case..but if this person does not go away..or lodges any more false and/or derogatory testimony against you...then I know I would do what it takes to seek retribution.

First, I want to say that this accusation that we called anyone a "name" is ridiculous.  We are a small operation, and only myself or Nick have access or reason to write any responses here.  A general consumer who may have been researching my company has responded to this, and yes, they have called Mr. C names---but I assure you that did not come from my company or anyone affiliated with it.  HOWEVER, with regards to this bogus response once again by them, look at these INTERESTING FACTS:

1-- If a dealer was going to "TAMPER" with an Odometer, would they not roll the mileage BACKWARDS and do it before a customer comes to look at and potentially buy the car??  This man is saying the car had MORE mileage on it then what was advertised on the ebay ad.   Yet, he neglects to acknowledge the fact that our ads all have a disclaimer in them that the mileage shown may change during the advertising process due to dealer demo's, test drives, etc. 

2-- If Mr. C didnt buy the car b/c of a "Odometer difference" why did he drive the car on a Saturday, and give us the deposit and paperwork on TUESDAY 3/9/2010!!!  I have all of the copies of his paperwork, credit card deposit receipt, etc!  I also have 2 chargeback attempts by Mr C with American Express that he lost BOTH of ---AND note this interesting fact, MR C NEVER called, emailed any info to us that he did not want the car because of any reason.  On 3/16, 7 days after he signed the paperwork with us, he charged back the deposit on his AMEX claiming he did not "know what the charge was for" ---even though we come up as KAM Motorsports clearly on credit card charges!  Then when he lost the chargeback, he attempted again on 6/14 a few months later, he decided to charge it back again, and this time, and ONLY this time, for the first time EVER, did we hear anything about an apparent "ODOMETER DISCREPANCY" with this person, over 3 months after his initial deal was signed!!

3-- Once again, Mr. C is neglecting the fact that he CAME HERE AND TEST DROVE THE CAR.  HE SAW THE MILEAGE ON THE CAR, AND DID NOT PUT A DEPOSIT ON THE CAR AND SIGN THE PAPERWORK WITH THE INFO ABOUT THE DEPOSIT UNTIL 2-3 DAYS AFTER HE DROVE THE CAR!  He saw the odometer and made the decision to buy the car AFTER he saw it!  There was nothing hidden!  We cant update the mileage on all of our inventory every week based off who drove it how far!  No dealership does it.  The mileage difference at most would have been 1,500 to 2,000 miles maximum, and we disclose the info to any potential customer if its being driven as a dealer demo before they come down! He changed his mind later on about buying the car, but neglected to call us and say a word!!!  We NEVER heard from him about his refusal to move forward with the purchase, he just disappeared for over 2 weeks before I could finally trick him into answering the phone in his office by saying I was a customer. 

4-- I did tell the woman to sue us, I admitted this, as the OWNER of this company.  And I did so because of the drama and issues her "partner" Mr. C has caused my company.  We held the car here an extra 2 weeks, lost a customer that was also interested, and ended up keeping the car another 2 weeks after that before we found a new buyer.  The car took up space in our warehouse that has limited space we could have used for another unit, we paid interest to hold the car, and my employee spent over 3 hours of his time on a late Saturday afternoon showing Mr C the car.  To this day, the only time we have heard from Mr. C was when I tricked him into answering his office phone. 

Bottom Line:  MR C came here, wasted over 3 hours of my employees time on his Saturday evening by appointment, signed paperwork and gave us a deposit 3 days later on his credit card, and we have only spoken to him once since then, only after we called him claiming to be a customer of his, where he told us then, "im not buying the car, keep the deposit" and hung up the phone!  Since then, he has been fighting to get the deposit back using any and all tactics he can.  At this point, I am so frustrated and upset about this clearly BOGUS post defaming myself and my company claiming we "tampered with an odometer" that I am going to speak with my attorney about a possible defamation suit using all of this proof from this website to go after Mr.C!!  

However, what proof do you have of actual "tampering"?

Tampering or setting back the odometer is a serious offense and people go to prison for this, but as well,this can subject the accuser to a slander/defamation charge if it can not be proven and if causes any financial harm to the business owner.

False advertising is another story. What was the mileage listed on the ebay ad vs. the mileage read by the prospective buyer on the odometer? Is there any proof or documentation of an eBay ad for this vehicle?

Now certainly it is not unreasonable if this was being used as a demo, test driven or dealer driven that it can have more mileage on the odometer then an ad listed..but if it is thousands more...then it does seem a bit suspect and the scale starts to tilt the other way.

However, when tampering it would make sense to roll the odometer BACK..not forward, since this is a SERIOUS federal offense so why on earth would anyone risk going to prison or huge fines to add miles to the odometer? The accusation is not well founded.

I guess what I am asking..is what sense would it make for this car dealer to tamper with the odometer and add mileage? That makes absolutely no sense. It just seems with what little info we have on this report...that the vehicle was being driven from the time of reading the ad to the time of test driving the vehicle..not that the odometer was tampered with. Big, Big difference.

If the issue is only that there was more miles on the car then the ad or phone conversation stated...why did anyone of sound mind leave a deposit if they were not happy with the mileage on the odometer? Fair question.

   Let me begin by stating that I never "threatened" anyone at this car dealership. I called and clearly stated that I was "calling on Mr. C's behalf"; never that I was "representing" him, as I am not an attorney. I called to DISCUSS, or arbitrate, a resolution to the situation and I was sternly and vehemently told to "sue me and make sure you file in Suffolk County so when a judgment is declared that you can collect." I have witnesses to this conversation as I phoned the dealership on speakerphone from our office. The man disclosed himself as "sales" since I asked for that department when I called and after this abrupt explosion; the man hung up on ME.

   Mr. C has shopped nearly every car he owns on eBay, or has used eBay as a tool to compare makes, models and pricing. Mr. C did, in fact, shop this car online through eBay and discovered that through eBay's tool known as CARFAX, that the mileage on the car had been reported for thousands more than what this dealership had set the odometer to, and it had been in their possession for months. Mr. C was told that the owner of the car used it as his every day car. As I disclosed before - mileage does play a role in factory warranties and it was the deciding factor for Mr. C. Of course, he test drove the car; that's how we know the odometer had been tampered with. The DMV will now be notified with the facts we 'researched' and discovered on eBay once we have had our day in court.

   The consumer comment that Mr. C cannot afford such a car is being brought into light because Mr. C can produce car titles of a small fleet of collectibles that he has in his own garage. Mr. C is well known in after market car parts for 'muscle cars' across the country and does his homework thoroughly. Mr. C did not disappear. He has been inundated with professional responsibilities and simply has had no time to address this issue, so when he said that he did not know what the Amex chargeback was regarding - it was an honest answer. That is where I came in - simply to assist.

   You know how to ruin a good story? Hear the other side. Since we could not even execute a mature, calm conversation to seek a resolution outside of court - we will proceed to the next step of filing in small claims court in Suffolk County, per our directive from the "sales" department. Be careful about swearing on the lives of your loved ones. We are stating facts from our experience - nothing more. To call Mr. C a "moron" and a "liar" is further defining the element that we are obviously dealing with here.

Although I am usually sympathetic to people getting shafted by car dealers, it would appear as though they didn't do anything wrong and you are the one that can't understand their position and WHY they have a non-refundable deposit, in order to recoup lost income from people acting bigger than life and richer than they are, committing to something expensive they can't afford, and then try to weasel their way out of it by searching for something to do it with. We're talking 2k miles not 20k and if what they say is true, which it probably is but even if its not it doesn't matter, you knew about the mileage before you put down a deposit. Now whether you found the same car for cheaper, or realized you can't afford it (most likely scenario) you looked for a reason to get out of it and thought you hit the jackpot with the mileage story. Obviously AMEX didn't beleive it either, since I'm willing to bet that the dealership is right and you lost your chargeback claim and are now claiming to wait to sue them, even though we all know you won't. You made a mistake, don't try to put it on someone else because you're a moron.

** American Express even denied this fraudulent customers claims on 2 occasions!  Now he is trying this website***  Car was a dealer demo, customer NEVER used Ebay, and the deal he made on car was after he came to see it, not before.  That I would swear on my entire life, business, and family.  The man is outright lying:  This report is a total fraud and lie by Mr Dennis C from NJ.  Mr. C came to our dealership on a Saturday and spent over 3 hours with Nick V my sales manager.  He originally came in looking at a 2008 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, and when he got here, he started looking at 2-3 other cars as well. The man came here, drove the car, saw the ODOMETER, asked why it had 2,000 more miles than what was in the pictures, and Nick explained to him that I, the owner, was using it as a dealer demo while it was on the market for sale, WHICH our ad's clearly state mileage listed could vary because of test drives, dealer demo's, etc.  Mr C did not make the deal until a few days later!!  Well after he drove the car, and saw the mileage!  Read below for the specifics to see what he did next! 

He drove the Jaguar, loved it and ended up making a deal with Nick verbally, but wanted to "think about it more".  A few days later, Mr. C called here, spoke with Nick, and put a deal together over the telephone, where Mr. C gave us his credit card, fully aware and understanding as we tell every customer that we do not take deposits unless the customer is 100% certain on buying the car ---and at that point the deposit is non-refundable, but we guarantee the car CAN NOT be sold to anyone else regardless of the offer.  Mr C not only gave this deposit, but he also signed full paperwork / documentation, with a disclaimer in big print about the deposit being non-refundable and stating he understood this, as well as being told verbally.  THEN, Mr C disappeared.  Literally disappeared.  After a week and a half of figuring he may have had a family emergency and giving him time to get back to us, we lost another potential customer on the car to a different dealer and Mr C's deal.  We even left him messages about his non-refundable deposit and we needed to hear from him, he refused to call back.  2 weeks after this happened, I called Mr C at his place of business, and told the girl that answered the phone that I was a "customer with a question" ---HE FINALLY GOT ON THE PHONE!  When I asked him what happened, and why we just received an AMEX chargeback for his deposit, Mr C stated "oh, i didnt realize that is what it was for, take your money, im not buying the car" and hung up the phone!  We sent a letter and copies of Mr C's paperwork to AMEX, and they denied his claim.   A few months later, Mr C attempted once again to get back his deposit by NOW claiming that we lied about the mileage on the car.  We resubmitted proof to AMEX, and they denied his claim again!   A month or so went by, and Mr C had some woman call her claiming she "represented him" and was going to sue us for the money if we did not refund it immediately!   After she proceeded to threaten us, I did in fact tell her, then go ahead and sue us, and we will present the same case to the court that we presented to American Express.   Mr C clearly changed his mind about the car after he committed to buy it, and could not even call us here to tell us this!  We lost almost 2 weeks advertising the unit, paid interest to hold it here, it took up valuable warehouse space that could have been used for other units, and we lost a different customer that had been interested in the car, but decided to buy a different one thinking this was sold.   Mr C avoids picking up the phone, and is now LYING about our company on this website ----Odometer fraud would mean we were tampering with odometers and we would be shut down by the DMV.  This man is 100% making up stories in an attempt to get back his deposit, when he has no right to.