Laura Topping - Loralei Golden Retrievers Unethical Sales Practice, Ripoff Clearwater Florida

Like I said before, I do not know why Marcie continues to argue with me about adopting during the holidays. She can't except that people have the right to their own opinion. It's clear from her previous entries that she just thinks her opinion on everything is right. She spends way too much time trying to trash me and the other people who have supported me on this site to make a clear statement. What does this mean The excerpt at the top was in a book I have written by a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine and I would think he knows what he's talking about alot more than do YOU WhinySally. Did she write the book? Who's the Doctor?

I looked at the sites she listed. They do support not adopting for the holidays. They stress not giving a child or loved one a puppy during the holidays because they may not be prepared to handle a lifetime commitment. I think the same rules apply not just during the holidays, but any occasion. If you are going on vacation during the summer, you shouldn't be getting a puppy right before. People have to realize it's not the holiday time that is affecting the puppy, but the time available from the owner. Like I said before, I do not think it's a good idea for just anyone to adopt during the holidays, but I support the ASPCA and think it may be good for some people who are properly prepared.

If Marcie works with pet rescue, I cannot believe she has not heard of Home 4 the Holidays. They have 1888 animal shelters and pet rescue groups enrolled in Home 4 the Holidays 2005. A world record of 313,123 orphaned dogs and cats, puppies and kittens were adopted worldwide during "Home 4 the Holidays 2004" pet adoption drive. Nine countries participate in this drive. If anyone is interested, check out the link:
www.animalcenter.org/home4theholidays/index.aspx
People can check out the link: www.petplace.com/article.aspx?id=1776
Their article, Think Twice Before Giving Pets As Holiday Gifts By: Joan Paylo
Includes this list of when it's OK to adopt during the holidays:
The Best of Times

People communicate almost intuitively with animals, and some people can get to know and appreciate a pet in the best spirit of the season. Who can do it? Here are some candidates.
A single person who will spend most of the holiday season alone and wants company.
A couple without children who would like the emotional payback a pet provides.
People with time to spare. Can at least one adult take time off from work for about two weeks? Can you give large chunks of time to your new pet, playing and getting to know his personality, his likes and dislikes? All new pets need extra attention, but puppies and kittens 8 to 16 weeks old need intense socialization at this phase of their lives.

She sold her friend the dog because her friend was going to pay her to show it.

That is really wrong in my book. She needs to be held accountible.


BTW thank you for the answering my rebuttal.

"Don't buy your puppy immediately before the holiday season, lest it get lost among new toys. It would be better to purchase dog equipment and a picture of the pup to place under the Christmas tree. Bring the puppy home after the holiday is past and the family has settled into it's normal routine."

Dan Rice DVM
Training your German Shepherd Dog

http://www.petrescue.com/library/no-pups.htm

http://www.cyberpet.com/cyberdog/articles/lexi/cmgifts.htm

http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_adoption_information/the_best_gift_you_can_give_waiting_to_adopt_until_after_the_holidays.html

These are just a few examples of different articles and excerpts that state over and over how it is NOT a good idea to adopt an animal at the holidays or right before the holidays. The excerpt at the top was in a book I have written by a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine and I would think he knows what he's talking about alot more than do YOU WhinySally.

Would you like a side of fries with your plate of crow?

You've now been proven wrong. It's time for you to shut the hell up.

She has repeated it several times in her entries. She has told me specific websites to find information supporting her opinion, but I could not find anything. I have asked her to find evidence, but she chooses to not to research anything and instead spends her time coming up with insults. She tells me to go to the library and bookstore to find evidence. I have done research on dogs. If she wants to prove that it's a fact, she's going to need to quote specific resources. Until then, it's only her opinion.

I do not know why she keeps arguing with me about the subject anyway. We wanted to pick the best puppy regardless of when it was going to be ready to go home. We were willing to change our schedules to accommodate it.

Laura knew from the moment we contacted her that the puppy was going to be a family pet only. We were honest with her from the beginning.

I think not. I'm not the one trying to adopt a dog without knowing what the hell I'm doing. Thats a surefire way to fail your pet miserably and the animal, not the stupid human, is the one who will suffer because of their owners ignorance and stupidity.

And if Laura's friend was going to show the dog for her, then THAT is why she chose her friend over another customer. Why should she adopt out a show quality dog to someone who has no plans to show it? Show quality dogs cost much more than pet-quality so she probably got alot more out of her friend, even if she cut her a break on the price. If I was Laura, I wouldnt adopt out a show quality dog to a pet-only family and lose money either. SHow quality dogs are how breeders make any money off breeding. Or perhaps she DID give the dog to her friend - because perhaps her friend is an experienced dog handler and is going to prepare the dog for showing.

It's cute of you to rush to WhineySally's rescue, but the fact of the matter remains that she did virtually no research before trying to adopt a pet from a breeder, and proves her lack of knowledge with each post she makes on the subject, then badmouthed the breeder when the adoption did not go through even though she got her deposit back in full. No ripoff, just a disgruntled woman who didnt get her way.

I think not. I'm not the one trying to adopt a dog without knowing what the hell I'm doing. Thats a surefire way to fail your pet miserably and the animal, not the stupid human, is the one who will suffer because of their owners ignorance and stupidity.

And if Laura's friend was going to show the dog for her, then THAT is why she chose her friend over another customer. Why should she adopt out a show quality dog to someone who has no plans to show it? Show quality dogs cost much more than pet-quality so she probably got alot more out of her friend, even if she cut her a break on the price. If I was Laura, I wouldnt adopt out a show quality dog to a pet-only family and lose money either. SHow quality dogs are how breeders make any money off breeding. Or perhaps she DID give the dog to her friend - because perhaps her friend is an experienced dog handler and is going to prepare the dog for showing.

It's cute of you to rush to WhineySally's rescue, but the fact of the matter remains that she did virtually no research before trying to adopt a pet from a breeder, and proves her lack of knowledge with each post she makes on the subject, then badmouthed the breeder when the adoption did not go through even though she got her deposit back in full. No ripoff, just a disgruntled woman who didnt get her way.

I think not. I'm not the one trying to adopt a dog without knowing what the hell I'm doing. Thats a surefire way to fail your pet miserably and the animal, not the stupid human, is the one who will suffer because of their owners ignorance and stupidity.

And if Laura's friend was going to show the dog for her, then THAT is why she chose her friend over another customer. Why should she adopt out a show quality dog to someone who has no plans to show it? Show quality dogs cost much more than pet-quality so she probably got alot more out of her friend, even if she cut her a break on the price. If I was Laura, I wouldnt adopt out a show quality dog to a pet-only family and lose money either. SHow quality dogs are how breeders make any money off breeding. Or perhaps she DID give the dog to her friend - because perhaps her friend is an experienced dog handler and is going to prepare the dog for showing.

It's cute of you to rush to WhineySally's rescue, but the fact of the matter remains that she did virtually no research before trying to adopt a pet from a breeder, and proves her lack of knowledge with each post she makes on the subject, then badmouthed the breeder when the adoption did not go through even though she got her deposit back in full. No ripoff, just a disgruntled woman who didnt get her way.

Marcie,

Not EVERYONE, as you put it, changes their routine during the holidays. Did it every occur to you there are some people who do NOT celebrate the holidays? There are some people to whom Christmas and Thanksgiving are just ordinary days. To imply that not celebrating means you have no friends just shows your ignorance.

I'm sorry if I was not clear by saying Laura was going to give her friend the dog. Laura has going to sell the dog to her friend and her friend was going to pay Laura to show the dog for her.

Regardless of whether they exist or not, verbal contracts are d**n near impossible to prove.

As for Sally Whinealot, here's an activity for you. I'll type it slowly so you can understand.
First , go to the library or any bookstore. Next go to the 'pets' section. Then, find a book on dogs, speifically a breed you like. After that, READ THE d**n BOOK.

Pretty much every single book out there that is meant to educate owners of different breeds will tell you that holidays are not a good time to adopt a pet. Unless you have no friends or family (which wouldnt shock me considering), EVERYONE changes their routine at holiday time. One of the main things about new puppy ownership is getting them in a specific daily routine right from the beginning and that isnt possible during the holidays. This is important for several reasons, two big ones of which are housebreaking and getting them used to being alone during the workweek. If you fail at that, and you almost certainly will during the holidays, then that dog has a much higher chance of being dumped in a shelter because he chews up the house when left alone or pees on the floor all the time. Just like a human, the things they learn early on shape how they will be for the rest of their lives.

The fact that you knew nothing about this shows me exactly how much research you did before trying to adopt this dog. The breeder absolutely made the correct decision in deciding the dog was better off elsewhere.

I'm not saying your home or your bonding with the puppy. But i just feel that it's not likely that a breeder would give up money for a dog to GIVE it to a friend.

Something may have happened to the friend recently and they bonded with the same puppy that you did. I don't know and neither do you.

But in my experience, people are about making money, not giving something away for free. So it just leads to me believe that there is a lot more to this story than is known (other than between the breeder and her friend.)

what she did was wrong, and she should have reimbursed your gas money.

As for Marcie, you do way to much sighing!
Are you an attorney? I didn't think so. I don't think in this day and age there should be any such thing as a verbal contract, but there is.

I am in a fight myself (look under Hartington Tree) about this issue.

what she did was wrong, and she should have reimbursed your gas money.

As for Marcie, you do way to much sighing!
Are you an attorney? I didn't think so. I don't think in this day and age there should be any such thing as a verbal contract, but there is.

I am in a fight myself (look under Hartington Tree) about this issue.

Thanks for your support Sheila. I had sent my last entry before they posted yours. I'm glad someone understands the reason why I posted this report. I hope that other people learn from this experience, too.

Thanks for your support Sheila. I had sent my last entry before they posted yours. I'm glad someone understands the reason why I posted this report. I hope that other people learn from this experience, too.

Thanks for your support Sheila. I had sent my last entry before they posted yours. I'm glad someone understands the reason why I posted this report. I hope that other people learn from this experience, too.

Thanks for your support Sheila. I had sent my last entry before they posted yours. I'm glad someone understands the reason why I posted this report. I hope that other people learn from this experience, too.

I looked at the Humane Society and ASPCA sites like you told me to and I did not see any imformation saying that adopting a pet during the holidays is a BAD thing either. Try finding a article about it on their site.

If you even read my previous messages, I did not insist on adopting during the holiday. Laura's puppy was ready the week of Thanksgiving. I didn't pick her puppy because of that. You're good at assuming things. You thought she was a good breeder, so why would she breed right before the holidays? Are all breeders who breed before the holidays bad?

Do you recommend that no one should adopt during the holidays and let the animals get killed? I do not think it's a good idea for just anyone to adopt during the holidays, but I support the ASPCA's artcle and think it may be good for some people who are properly prepared.

Everyone seems to be posting negative comments about your report Sally so I felt I had to write in support of you. Nowhere in her report did it say that the holidays would be hectic at their home. Not everyone (myself included)rushes around, shopping and visiting, etc. at the holidays. For some of us, they are just ordinary days. Therefore, it would not be a bad idea to get a pet at that time. Also, even though there may not have been a written legal contract, there certainly was a moral one. If the breeder did not intend to sell them a pup, she should have told them that the deposit does not guarantee a dog. Also, a pickup day should not have been set.

Yes, Sally got her deposit back so there is nothing else to be done but I appreciate her report. Most of us do believe a deposit is meant to hold something. Now I know better.

I HAVE read that entire article and may others (no doubt more than you've read) and nowhere in there does it say that adopting a pet during the holidays is a good thing. Strangers going in and out of the house, people not being at home as much as normal, no routine, no normalcy. They have to put articles like that on their site because unintelligent people like you insist on adopting animals during holidays or give them as 'gifts'. They know they cant stop them so they're trying to give them information in the hopes that not all the animals end up in kill shelters. If you feel that a hectic schedule is no big deal for an animal in a new and strange home, then that just shows what kind of person you are. I've been active in animal rescue for some time now and I know what I'm talking about alot more than does someone who throws a hissy fit over a nonexistent contract for a dog. That dog is better off with anyone other than you.

I think Marcie needs to check her sources out before quoting them. With proper planning, the holidays are fine.
Here's an excerpt from the ASPCA site:
Pets as Presents for Your Kids:
Planning Makes All the Difference
by Lyn Mettler

You've seen it in the movies: sweet little Suzy toddles down on Christmas morning to find her new puppy sitting patiently under the tree with a big red bow around his neck. Suzy squeals, runs to hug the puppy, who gives her a big lick on the cheek, and the two live happily ever after.

While it would be great if such holiday surprises always worked out so well--that's often not the case. Three-year-old Suzy, who is too young to know what caring for a pet really means, cries the first time Puppy bites her on the hand while the two are playing. Mom and Dad then pile him up in the car and drop him off at the local animal shelter-one of three to five million dogs and cats returned to U.S. shelters each year.

But according to ASPCA Senior Vice President Stephen Zawistowski, it doesn't have to go this way. With some forethought and a sincere commitment, pets can be a wonderful gift to give your family.

The article continues to talk about the best way to suprise someone with a pet for the holidays. If you want to read the complete article, the link is on the FRONT page of the ASPCA site.

Go to the Humane Society site or the ASPCA site or ANY animal advocate site and they'll tell you that the holidays are not the best time to adopt a pet. Ask any breeder. I's not rocket science - it's common sense.

This site isn't about Marcie. I just mentioned Marcie because I felt I needed to defend myself. She has acted immature with her assumptions about me and her name calling. I never said I knew anything about breeding, or that a deposit was a contract. I already admitted I should have signed a contract. She does not need to repeat that. I never disputed that fact. She assumed Laura invited us over to see the puppies to feel us out, but it was my husband and I that requested a meeting. Picking Laura was not an easy decision. We have been screening breeders for months. She also assumed I did not do any research on owning a puppy. I have read several books on them and have talked to several breeders. I do not recall reading anything about not adopting during the holidays. If anyone has a book about that, let me know and I'll read it. Anyway, the whole point of the posting is that Laura lied to us. She breeds beautiful puppies and that's why we chose her. We had been talking to her for weeks and were so happy when she called to offer us one of her puppies. She should have not promised us a puppy on the phone and in person if she was still taking offers. Maybe I'm old fashion, but when someone promises you something (especially a living thing), I expect them to keep their promise. This posting is to warn buyers about this unethical sales practice.

I see that you've tried to make the subject of your post about me. How sad you are. You DID badmouth the breeder and you are clearly clueless as to the aspects of dog breeding. A deposit is NOT a contract, which is why it was refunded to you. A deposit is done so that the breeder knows a prospective buyer is serious about adopting the puppy in question and it also helps avoid the I-was-here-first type of situation. However, the breeder has sole discretion as to whom they allow to adopt. Until you sign the contract, the dog isnt yours. And the contract IS a big deal because had you signed one, she would have been legally obligated to sell you the dog unless you had already broken a provision of said contract.

All you've done by trying to turn your not-such-a ripoff around onto me is show how truly ignorant you are. Do all animals a favor and dont adopt any.

I do not know why Marcie is getting so defensive. If she read my entry clearly, I posted this so other buyers can be aware of unethical practices. I know I should have signed a contract when I left the deposit. That is one of the reasons I wrote this. Buyers need to know that just because someone is nice and tells you that you can have the puppy and you can pick it up at a certain time, it does not mean you can have the puppy. I never called Laura "irresponsible". She had wonderful puppies. That is why we fell in love with them. I'm sorry if Marcie feels I have badmouthed Laura, but I never used any name calling. I just stated the facts. I did not decide to get a puppy because of the holidays. It just happened that the puppy was ready the week of Thanksgiving. I'm sorry if my last entry implied that. I just meant we were looking forward to having her there for Thanksgiving since she would be old enough to take home. Marcie seems to be really fixed about us not having a contract. I was ignorant to think a deposit meant something. I still do not understand why a deposit is needed then. I thought a deposit is meant to hold something for you. If you are not suppose to adopt during the holidays, why do responsible breeders breed right before? Laura didn't think it was a bad idea. She thought it was good for us to be able to spend more time with the puppy over the long weekend.

You didnt sign the contract when she took your deposit so the dog was NOT yours. As for your allegation that the breeder is "making" $6000 from her litter, do you know ANYTHING about breeding? I doubt it, because if you did, you'd know that breeders generally are lucky to recoup the costs they incur from taking care of the mother dog and litter before they are gone to their new homes. If they make a little more than that, they are lucky.

As I said before, she was under no obligation to you because you didnt sign a contract. Your money was returned. And you're right about one thing - it IS a good thing you dont have a child to explain it to, since you are too busy acting like a child yourself to move on and go adopt a different dog. And by the way, if you did any research at all before setting about getting a pet, you would know that the holidays are NOT a good time to adopt a pet. There is too much going on and it makes it difficult for them to adjust to their new surroundings and get into a routine. Insteadof whining about how 'irresponsible' you feel the breeder was, you should stop being so irresponsible yourself and educate yourself before adopting a dog.

If Laura Topping did not get a good vibe, then she should have not wasted 2 hours of our time telling us what we needed to buy to take care of the puppy. I think telling us we could not have the puppy two days after we made our deposit hurt our feeling more then if she told us that day. By talking our deposit she made a verbal contract and we had our hearts set on picking her up for Thanksgiving. She was making $6000 from her litter, she could have at least paid us $30 for the gas we wasted. I thank God that we didn't have a child and had to explain there are bad people in the world.

Sally,

While I can understand that you were upset, and rightfully so, this isnt really a ripoff. You, in fact, didnt sign a contract with the breeder so the dog was not legally yours. The breeder returned your deposit so what else do you want? From what you wrote, it sounds to me like this breeder is a very responsible breeder. Perhaps she just didnt get a good vibe from you and didnt want to hurt your feelings by telling you this? This may not be the case, but it wouldnt be the first time it's happened. The reason the breeder invited you to come and visit the kennel and interact with the dogs, was partly because responsible breeders want to make sure their pups go to good homes. While you arefeeling out which pup you like, the breeder is feeling out what kind of people you are. They have every right to refuse you the dog before the contract is signed and they are not obligated to give you a reason, nor do they need to apologize.

If you dont like the breeder, find another one, or adopt from the local pound, but dont badmouth a breeder just because you didnt get your way. Your money was returned so get over it and move on.