• Report: #84476
Complaint Review:

NADN - National Audit Defense NetworkNadn - orayn And Mallforall

  • Submitted: Thu, March 18, 2004
  • Updated: Fri, April 16, 2004

  • Reported By:Cody Wyoming
NADN - National Audit Defense NetworkNadn - orayn And Mallforall
4340 S Valley View Blvd Suite 230 Las Vegas, Nevada U.S.A.

NADN National Audit Defense Network/orayn And Mallforall ripoff -maybe a way to get you mall for all paid off Las Vegas Nevada

*Consumer Comment: We've been ripped off too!! couldn't find anything listed under Las Vegas BBB, there are over 1,050 complaints here! is the BBB part of this scam?

*Consumer Comment: Clicks and Taxes ..ended up with a loss on my taxes

*Author of original report: Nada/mallforall/shopn2000ripoff-helping each other pay these off

*Consumer Comment: I was scammed also

*Consumer Comment: Liars and Thieves, they got me too

*Consumer Suggestion: Clicks are not limited but generate a 1099

*Consumer Comment: Breach of Contract

*Consumer Suggestion: Site Lists Update

*Consumer Comment: They scammed me also

*Consumer Comment: NADN scammed me also

*Consumer Comment: Rachel - watch out - the IRS doesn't buy it

*Consumer Comment: Website Modification Details

*Consumer Comment: great idea

*Consumer Suggestion: A click is a click is a click...

*Consumer Comment: NADN and Mall4all solution

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I also have been taken in by nadn and oryan management. I was told when I bought the mall for all that it could be paid off by clicking on the showcase stores. I have been doing that but I can not tell that they have been taking the $2.00 I was supposed to get for each click off of my loan.

Then I was told that they limit the number of click by one computer so you can not pay off the loan all at once, but they can not tell me how many click one computer can do before it is not counted.

They also can not tell me if that limit is by day or what. So what I was thinking if we all had each others mallforall numbers we could all click on each others malls and get them paid off. I am trying to determine how many click you can do a day but have not gotten the answer as of yet.

I was trying to determine the number of clicks by printing out the note balance and comparing it every day after I have clicked on the showcase stores. If you like this idea please send in a rebuttel and I will try to find a way to set up a chat room, so we can make this work.

Cody, Wyoming

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 03/18/2004 09:24 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/nadn-national-audit-defense-networknadn-orayn-and-mallforall/las-vegas-nevada-89103/nadn-national-audit-defense-networkorayn-and-mallforall-ripoff-maybe-a-way-to-get-you-ma-84476. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

We've been ripped off too!! couldn't find anything listed under Las Vegas BBB, there are over 1,050 complaints here! is the BBB part of this scam?

AUTHOR: Deborah - (U.S.A.)

I have been reading all the complaints against NADN and i'm glad to know that we aren't the only ones that are in this situation. It's a real sad situation for all of us. I think that the idea using the m or s and zip codes is a good one, and could possibly work. I have been trying for about 6 months to find out how the clicks work, and just this past week was told you could only click on the showcase ones to receive credit toward your note, which I did, as of right now, I haven't seen any difference in the amount of the promissary note. Can anyone tell me if there is any particular thing you have to do to get this to work? I wish that I had never gotten involved in any of this, but its to late now, the only thing we can do is try to get these notes paid off and get out. I have been writing down all the zip codes and will try to click on everyone's to help out. Mine is m55420 and would appreciate all the help anyone can give me. Also i'm all for a class action suit, someone needs to stop this company from taking peoples hard earned money by representing themselves as something they are not. I tried looking up NADN with the Better Business Bureau but couldn't find anything, its listed under south Las Vegas BBB, if only I had seen the reports here on them first, over 1,050 complaints. At least now it helps to know there are people like me to help each other through this mess. If anyone can help with info on clicks respond and let me know by sending in a rebuttal
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#2 Consumer Comment

Clicks and Taxes ..ended up with a loss on my taxes

AUTHOR: Larry - (U.S.A.)

Hi Beverly and others,
I have 3 malls and clicked all of them off in one or two days. You can pull up two screens in Windows - having one overlap the other so that you can really get a rhythm going and do it super fast. You'll be surprised how quickly the clicks clear your account.

As for the taxes question - I also was afraid that I would pay outrageous taxes. My tax guy used the cost of the investment as a write off - and I actually ended up with a loss on my taxes (not much) but I did NOT use the ADA credit. The only paperwork you need from NADN actually comes under a different name and should have been a 1099 with the earnings that you got in credits against your promissory note. Show the tax guy both the 1099 and the contract you signed on the promissory note and you'll be fine.

COUNT ME IN on working with a lawyer in a class action suit please!

Thank you!
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#3 Author of original report

Nada/mallforall/shopn2000ripoff-helping each other pay these off

AUTHOR: Dianna - (U.S.A.)

My mall number is m01085. I thought I put it in the last message I put on this site but I guess not. I have started clicking on the sites that have been listed. I also found another site where folks are talking about NADN and the mall for all and shopn200. The other iste URL is:
http://www.christulino.com/archives/000043.html I have put the URL ( internet addres) to this site on their web site. I hope you good folks will help me out I am trying to click on each of the 10 sites I have addresses to. The best way to do this would be able to write a program that would automatically go to each site and click on the showcase a couple of time a day. If anyone out there know how to do this it sure would help us out. lso Ripoff site has offered to get us togeather through a lawyer. If any of you are up for please let this site know or let the rest of us know by putting it in your messages.
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#4 Consumer Comment

I was scammed also

AUTHOR: Beverly - (U.S.A.)

I always thought only NADN could do your taxes since we had the shopn2000 and mallforall. Do you need any special paperwork from NADN for H&R block to do them next year. It is April 6 and I still have not received my taxes from them yet. Those of you that didn't claim the credits do you pay alot in taxes. This scares me to death since we don't have alot of money thanks for NADN.

There has to be something we can do to stop them.
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#5 Consumer Comment

Liars and Thieves, they got me too

AUTHOR: Kurt - (U.S.A.)

I too, was lured into the deep, dank HELL that is NADN and Oryan.

Around September of 2002, I bought a Mallforall and a Membership with Tax preparation for 2003. I was told of all the great savings from a home-based business, tax credits, and tax deductions. Along with the 'Elite' membership came unlimited consultation with a Financial Advisor, which I have since learned is nothing more than an insurance salesman. He espoused his great credentials, and his 'whale' clients and all that, crunched my numbers and THEN let me in on the fact that the 'investment vehicles' had a load, which is in fact profit for him. He basically whores himself out to NADN. This was Infuriating Moment #1.

October 2002
NADN told me to send in 2002 tax returns so that their Ex-IRS Tax Specialsts can do a review to see if I missed any possible deductions, etc. I Fedex'ed my returns to them. After a month of no response, I try to track down the sitiation. Apparently they never received the package. WTF! I was looking at the signature of the person who signed for it. "Well, we never got it, sometimes these things get lost, we are SOOO busy, and we just moved our office, and the phones are not working yet, BLAH BLAH BLAH..." Great. Now my Tax Returns, the Holy Grail for Identity Thieves are 'somewhere'...Infuriating Moment #2.

January 2003
I get pressured into buying another Mall in my wife's name, plus another year of tax prep.

February 2003
Time to start tax prep. I am supposed to fill out the 'Tax Organizer'. With the amount of money I paid, I thought it would at least be a screenprinted binder or something. Turns out it's a wad of mimeographed copies that look worse than a copy of fax of a fax of a copy...
Praying to GOD they don't lose THIS package.

March 2003. No word from NADN on the progress of my tax returns. They hadn't started them yet, because they have thousands of clients, and they are really busy, and they just moved, and the phones aren't working...blah blah blah...

April 2003
Getting REALLY close to April 15. After literally HOURS of trying to get through, I am told that they won't be done in time, and they will file an extension. You all know you still have to PAY by the 15th even if you are filing an extension...NADN tells me to 'just send them a check for the amount you paid last year." WTF?
I can't take the stress, I go out and buy TurboTax (which I hate) and attempt to do my own taxes at the last minute. I send in a return and giant checks to the Government and the State.

May through September
Trying to work with the Tax Preparer. She has just gotten back from vacation. What Tax Preparer takes vacation in the beginning of April? Now things are really screwed up, NOW I have to have her prepare AMENDED returns. I send her my TurboTax returns in .pdf format, but she can't read them. I have to mail them to her. As we progress painfully slowly throgh the returns, she tells me that this Mallforall thing is viewed as a scam by the IRS. WTF? NADN's own Tax Preparers are slamming the very thing that brought me there? Tax return preparation goes through 2 revisions because of errors or ommissions by the tax preparer. Infuriating Moments 4,5,6,7 etc....

In the end, I end up paying more in taxes because of the mallforall because 1) I clicked off the note all at once, generating an $8000 1099-MISC income to myself, which I was NOT told would happen, and 2) my income was high enough that I couldn't take the entire credit!!! So now it has to carry over to the next year (2003) where I am in the same boat because I have ANOTHER mall that started the whole thing over again!

October 2003
This is where I really blow it...
I got a call about a program that will put MY websites on the major search engines. I put up a defense, and the price drops quickly, but I *have* to act NOW because this is the last day of the promotion (it always is), and besides I have a 30-day UNCONDITIONAL 100% MONEY-BACK GAURANTEE. It said so in the email receipt I got. Did anyone else notice you never get any paper invoices or receipts of any kind for your purchases?
Aynway I succumb to the pressure and put another $1500 on my credit card, because the guy scared the crap out of me stating that this is the only way to make your sites COMPLETELY LEGIT in the eyes of the IRS. So they forgot to tell me that when I bought the sites I guess.
So I am supposed to get 2 sets of a toolkit of some sort, one for each site. 2 weeks in, nothing shows up. The original guy I talked to is no unreachable by phone or message or email. I ask where my stuff is. Apparently, it takes about 6 weeks for my sites to be 'customized'. So that puts the first day I see anything outside of my 30-day MBG. F that, I want to cancel everything, and get my credit card reimbursed. OOOHHhhh you have to write a LETTER to Client Resolutions to get that. GRRRR...
So I fax a letter. No response. The next and subsequent days, I fax multiple letters. At the end, I was faxing 150 (one hundred fifty) copies a day. Still no repsonse. I start calling. I call hourly for DAYS trying to get someone who knows more than 'food good, fire bad'. Finally I get irate enough that they get a 'Manager' on the phone, who tells me I am getting a refund of $1000 in 7-10 business days. It's supposed to be $1500. "No, you called in and changed your order" "No, I called in and CANCELLED my order" "Well we shipped you blah blah blah" "I never got anything" "wait another 7-10 business days, and send back the package when it shows up." I did get a package, but it was a CD, a mileage log and some other papers, but nothing about how to run the Mall for all thing. I sent it back. Between mid-November until the end of March 2004, I could not get through, and if I did, my refund was awaiting approval and should be sent out in 7-10 business days. Thank GOD I put it on a Chase credit card. I called them in early December and opened a dispute. NADN had 45 days to responds after which the matter was closed. I tell you that 45 days was the longest wait of my life. I got back $1500, but I'm still burned by mallforall aftermath.

To avoid sending up any more red flags to the IRS, for 2003 I did not deduct my MFA business cost, take any of the credits. I just writing it off as a lesson learned. My Tax guy is ex-irs, and he charged me $275 to do my taxes, and it took a whole hour out of my life. I didn't even take the carry-over credit amount. All I'm taking are my lumps for being suckered in multiple times by these crooks.

Well, that's the short version. I will keep an eye out for that class-action lawsuit!

Best of luck to all, you're not in this alone...
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#6 Consumer Suggestion

Clicks are not limited but generate a 1099

AUTHOR: Shirley - (U.S.A.)

We invested in 3 malls and immediately clicked all of the notes off. This year we received 3 1099s claiming $7495 income each for those clicks. Since we never get called back from NADN, we went to a reputable accountant who strongly advised us to stay away from claiming these deductions because they are 'tax shelters' and will almost definitely result in an audit. And then, what if NADN still doesn't return our calls? We opted to claim the income as a wash for the promissory note expense and get out of this company's fraudulent roller coaster all together. We are M46526 M45103 M58102. The problem is that although the promissory notes are paid off - what about the balance of the mall cost that is to be paid by the mall's sales commissions over the next 8 years? How do we get out of that committment?
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#7 Consumer Comment

Breach of Contract

AUTHOR: Mark - (U.S.A.)

If they did remove the showcase area of the sites it is my contension that this would be a Breach of Contract(written or implied), if that be the case, we could never get the notes paid off, and in that is were a potential lawsuit would lay.
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#8 Consumer Suggestion

Site Lists Update

AUTHOR: Jeffrey - (U.S.A.)

I have come back here to check up on all the updates that concern our growing problems with these so called companies, and have noticed that many of us have came up with one solid idea to get these notes under some kind of control.

I have noticed too that many of us have also made the same mistake of not giving others our M or S + Zipcodes when requesting visits to our sites. Mine are M+78209 and S+35242.

If we all get on board here and stick this out together, maybe we can raise enough to pay off these notes and just perhaps, make enough to pay a little on the taxes that might be imposed if the IRS does decide that our businesses are real. Either way, I'd rather pay a few thousand in taxes than several thousand in notes.

One more little Tid-Bit! Has everyone noticed that NADN has removed it's banner which used to be in the Showcase area? Infact there was even a seperate banner for NADN Headquarters. Where are they now, and why did they get pulled? How long do we have before the Showcase disapears altogether?
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#9 Consumer Comment

They scammed me also

AUTHOR: Sue - (U.S.A.)

I bougt my first mall in 2001 and my second one in 2003. They lied to us the whole time. I love how they tell you that you will make money on these mall but instead all you do is pay out money. They make you believe that if you don't get these different modications or plans to generate business then the IRS is going to come knocking on your door. My plan is to get these notes payed off my clicking on the showcase and then be done with NADN. My malls are s32757 and
m27288. I will click on any malls that also leave their zip codes.
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#10 Consumer Comment

NADN scammed me also

AUTHOR: Beverly - (U.S.A.)

My question is how can clicking on the showcases ( since there are only two of them) pay off the notes. Also I thought we could only click 300 times in a tax year which would only be $600 off of our note ( that is what they told my husband). Maybe that 300 is what you don't have to account for on your taxes.

MY husband and my self feel like we are in a deep hole and there is really no way out. I quess the only thing to do is click on the sites (we have 2 of them) and wait the 8 years. When my notes are paid off I don't want to hear from NADN again. The only sales the malls have made are from me.

NADN calls us every week for more money. Most of the time they call us to pay for modifications we all ready have. All this company wants is more money. And they can't take NO for an answer. This week they called and wanted over $2000 to join a plan that would generate business to the site. They said if we didn't do it that the IRS might come after us ( since our site is not generating sales) and make us pay for the deductions we took. We are scared since we don't know what to do and we don't have the money to pay IRS.

so much for my kids going to college.

I would also like to join in the clicking party. I will click on yours and you can click on mine.
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#11 Consumer Comment

Rachel - watch out - the IRS doesn't buy it

AUTHOR: Chris - (U.S.A.)

Hi Rachel,

The tax savings look great until you get form 4549 from the IRS. This is the result of the audit they do of your taxes without notifying you because they have already deemed this as "tax avoidance." You can repeal it. After talking to the audit defense guy at NADN, he told me it would be a "headache" in tax court. After talking to the IRS agent, we chose to pay it. They have flagged the electronic mall and are searching for other people who have it on their taxes. You can likely expect this soon.

So after paying for the website we also have paid the back taxes on the disallowed deduction on the website and disallowed ADA tax credit. NADN claims no reponsibility because there hasn't yet been a judgement against it in tax court. The only good news is that the IRS can't collect taxes on the promissory note "income" because they don't consider this a business. So, at least the 1099s for those two years were thrown out. Still seeking advice as to whether the future 1099 will also not be valid.

By the way - I'll start clicking for the note on numbers that get posted! I haven't had any problems with too many clicks. It shows up immediately on your backoffice page. You can pull up to browser windows and reload the back office every few minutes to watch. I'm S60540.
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#12 Consumer Comment

Website Modification Details

AUTHOR: Jeffrey - (U.S.A.)

Be it known that the Malls sold by Oryan come fully loaded up front with the "3" suposed ADA modifications. I had this confirmed by Bryan Ross of ORYAN. Each year you pay NADN, for what they still refer to as your First, Second, or Third modification, is in reality a down for yet another Mall website. I and my wife have signed two contracts each for a total of four. I assumed that since the zip codes were the same as the original two we both had already that this was just a formality for ORYAN to continue to agree to manage the sites, "WRONG!". Each and every payment of $24,995. to $26,995. is indeed for a brand new site even if it bares the same Zip Code. Bryan also informed me that the Zip Codes are now only a slight formality and not truely nessesary due to the fact that the sites are now being sold globaly and that other contries don't all have Zip Code distinctions.

This may answer some querries made by others too.

If I understood Bryan correctly, due to the now obsilete zip codes, there is in place a rotating lottery that automaticly sends responces to a diffrent Mall regardless of it's zipcode. For those that have spent a good deal to advertise this may not sound too fair. For those that can't due to monies given already to NADN and, or ORYAN, this may sound like a live saver.

My question to everyone reading this is, has anyone heard of "MARKET SATURATION?".
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#13 Consumer Comment

great idea

AUTHOR: Joseph - (U.S.A.)

Great idea! Something is up because for some reason my clicks have not been showing up in my back office.

Another person on this board recomended anytime your discussing this topic to use a code such as m and then your zipcode or if you have shopn2000 to use s then zipcode. For example my website is 38901 so i would put by my name m38901. Also all you fellow missourians i would like to get in touch with some of you if your close to the St. Lois area.
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#14 Consumer Suggestion

A click is a click is a click...

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)


Do you see these restrictions in your agreements? I think not. My wife's site has sometimes been promoted asking people to visit the SHOWCASE "sponsers" that support the ADA modifications. It should not matter how many times they choose to visit.

Aren't you supposed to pay for your note with all of the sponser clicks? Where did this portion/limit thing come from? Will they reduce the note proportionately to the restricted click total? Or is this a dirty little (everyone gets told something else) secret?

Because the site has been "screwed up" so bad, I am sure that you have to check your clicks against your back room frequently. It is not your fault that there are problems that require you to click those sponsers to make sure that your business is working properly. You are forced to do more work. Oryan is resposible for those extra clicks. The extras should be coming out of their pockets not yours or the Showcase members.

If you are missing clicks from yourself or people that you know it is likely that you or they have been redirected to someone else's site. My wife has pointed this problem out to Oryan since she became aware of it in November 2003.

Are you missing sales too? You probably don't know unless you have personal contact with all of your customers, and they tell you they bought something, and then it didn't show up as a sale for you.

Really, shouldn't you be requesting "lost" clicks?

Elsewhere I have proposed a complaint database which can be adapted to identify each other if you think about how your mall address is written. It goes like this... If you have a mallforall use "M" + "zipcode". For Shop'n2000 use "S" + zipcode. (include the words "complaint" & "database" to tie searches together)

But identify yourself that way everywhere you go, everywhere you enter a comment or complaint on the net.

My wife's is M14224. Find her, you know what to do.


I'm interested in your modifications (at the mall, silly!). You show 3 promissory notes, hence you have a modification beyond "visually impaired". What is the differance that other modification brings?
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#15 Consumer Comment

NADN and Mall4all solution

AUTHOR: Rachel - (U.S.A.)

I am interested in your solution. I too have been lured in to this unending money pit. I have 2 sites and 3 promisory notes to be paid off. If your solution works or could be helpful to others in stopping this nonsense. The sites did get me great tax savings, but you also have to put up with the hounding phone calls and sales pressure. Thank GOD I found that other people were in my same position. My advice is for others to really read thier paperwork, the solutions will come. This could be one.
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