• Report: #955022
Complaint Review:


  • Submitted: Mon, October 15, 2012
  • Updated: Mon, November 19, 2012

  • Reported By: Gary m. — SAN PEDRO California U.S.A.
1688 MERIDIAN AVE. NO. 404 MIAMI BEACH, Florida United States of America


*REBUTTAL Owner of company: This Complaint is not factual!

*General Comment: Retail Comerce and The need for profit

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Park Avenue Numismatics deceived me as to the true value of my rare gold coin and refused to  resolve the issue by  sending me more funds to approximate the actual  value of the coin.  I contacted Park Avenue Numismatics on September 24, 2012  and inquired about selling them my 1865  S.S. Republic shipwreck coin.  It was an 1865 gold $ 20.00 double eagle ; mint state 62.  I spoke with a Mr. Bob Green who stated that he was the owner of the company. He advised that the market had been flat for this coin over the last five years and that I could not expect to get more than I paid for the coin several years ago.  He represented himself as a coin expert  with over twenty years experience and his website advertises that the company  pays "Top Dollar" for purchasing clients coins and states that it guarantees this.   I trusted his professional judgment and decided to sell the coin to him.  He sent me the Fed-Ex paperwork and I shipped him the coin and he wired the funds $ 7,000.00 to my bank account.  The next day we spoke about a few other coins  had and he gave me the same story.  I researched the coins on his website and found that the was selling the same coins for a much higher price than he offered me and that he was selling  the S.S. Republic coin for over twice what he paid me for my coin.  I then contacted Heritage Galleries which is one of the largest auction houses around and was advised that the S.S. Republic coin that I sold Mr. Green had recently auctioned at one of their coin conventions for over $ 14,500.00.  I then contacted Mr. Grenn and requested he wire me more money to approximate the market price of the coin and he refused.  I then gave him the opporunity to sell back the coin to me a the $ 7,000.00 price or thereabouts or sell me the same coin out of his inventory and the $ 7,000.00 price and he refused.  By refusing any of the three remedies offered he rejected my request to make restitution and inheirently admitted to defrauding me.  His website clearing states that the company pays "Top Dollar" guaranteed for clients rare coins, hower, in my case he did not.  Once he had my coin he would not make good on the companies guarantee.. [continued below]....

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 10/15/2012 12:35 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/park-avenue-numismatics/miami-beach-florida-33139/park-avenue-numismatics-bob-greenberg-dba-park-avenue-numismatics-deceptive-sales-practic-955022. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 REBUTTAL Owner of company

This Complaint is not factual!

AUTHOR: Park Avenue Numismatics - (United States of America)

 We have reviewed this compaint and offer our rebuttal and comments in the hopes that consumers who read this can hear both arguments.

The allegations and complaint is without merit and we deny all of Mr Leiss's accusations.   The documented facts are on or about September 25, 2012.  Mr. Leiss contacted us about potentially selling some coins he has purchased from another dealer in California, Monaco Financial.  He was not happy with that firm and reported to us that his business relationship with them had been severed and he was asked to not call them anymore so he was looking for another firm to sell his coins to.

He gave us a list of 3 items and we gave him our "bids" subject to our final inspection.  Our bids are wholesale prices as we plan to resell the coins for a profit.  In fact when questioned about the market we did tell him that the market was weaker lately in this economy for the coins he owned but regardless we made a wholesale "Bid" or offer for his coins.  He agreed to sell us the three coins and we promptly sent him a purchase order via email as well as a pre-printed FEDEX air bill and shipping instructions.

The following day we received one of three coins in the package and he said he decided to only accept our offer and sell us the one coin for $7,000.  We agreed to send a check overnight to him via FEDEX and we did just that.  Mr. Leiss failed to give us his apartment number and the FEDEX could not be delivered.  When we advised Mr Leis of the issue he then demanded immediate payment via bank wire and we complied immediately with his request and asked that if the FEDEX check arrived please return it as we had to put a stop payment in order to send him the bank wire.   At that time he thanked us for being professional and a follow up email was sent informing him that when he is ready to sell the other two coins we welcome the opportunity to buy them.

Several weeks later, on or about October 8, 2012 Mr Leiss contacted us again and agreed to sell us the final two coins and we sent him another pre-printed FEDEX air bill.  Later that day he sent back an email advising us that he decided not to sell us the coins explaining that he was told other coins had sold at auction for more money.  He also demanded that we reverse our finalized deal from weeks before (the nature of his complaint) as he was informed by a business competitor that he sold the coin too cheap and one had sold for more at auction (not the same coin, just another coin).   We advised him that the coin we purchased from him has been sold and was no longer available.  He was quite irate and agitated and made threats that he would contact every type of organization and hung up the phone.   We then received another telephone communication with him making accusations that we ripped him off etc.  We responded via email that our deal from September 25th had been finalized and he accepted our offer/bid at the time of the transaction and we considered that deal as final.

At this point we are of the opinion that he had "seller's remorse" after a phone conversation with one of our competitors.   We do not agree with that competitor's assessment as we feel they were simply trying to win his business by downgrading our offer as a way to facilitate a future business with Mr Leiss.

In short, Mr. Leiss agreed to sell his coin to us for $7,000 and got paid promptly on his terms.  Perhaps in the future he should look for higher offers before agreeing to sell his property rather than afterward and then demanding more money via accusations and threats.

He has contacted several organizations in hopes of having us back down and not defend our position.  We will give the same facts to all who contact us as the truth doesn't change.
We liken this to selling a house and then when your next door neighbor sells for more, then you go back and demand more money from the buyer.  It isn't the way business works. He had an opportunity to sell his coin prior to receiving and accepting our offer.  He chose not to sell them and he also canceled two that he agreed to sell.  This individual is seeing things one sided.  Our position is once a deal is finalized and you receive and accept the offer and payment , you can't expect to cancel, re-negotiate or make unrealistic demands just because you feel you could have or would have done better.  

Importan to note is that we couldn't sell Mr. Leiss his coin back weeks later because we no longer had it for sale. We had the right to sell it for a profit as the new owner and sold the coin directly after we received it.  His demands for us to sell him that coin or any other coins and our refusal to do so is by no means an admission of guilt as he states.  It is simply that we do not have one to sell him.  
We realize he is not happy with his decision to sell us his coin, however if the coin ended up being worth less or going down in value he would not likely refund our money!   If as a consumer reading this, you need further clarification please feel free to contact us directly at 800-992-   President, Park Avenue Numismatics
Mr. Leiss's response that there is no such thing as wholesale is without merit.  Millions of dollars of "wholesale" transactions take place daily. Our advertisement that we pay top dollar is also being misinterpreted by him to persuade readers to see his interpretation rather than Park Avenue's. We gave him a OUR TOP DOLLAR OFFER that we would pay, or OUR TOP BID for his coin.  He had ample time to consider to whom to sell his coin to and he accepted our "TOP OFFER"  

We are by no means deceptive in our advertising marketing or sales.  We have purchased more than $50 million in public purchases in the last ten years with no complaints about our very reasonable immediate funds payment policy to the general pubic.  We met every term and condition he set forth to us.

Mr Leiss has been informed by us, yet is unwilling to accept the fact that that just because another coin sells for more money at auction or a another dealer represents that his coin may have sold for more is an irrelevant topic. There are coins that sell for less as well, although he probably won't bring up that topic as it wouldn't be in his best interest in his complaint.  No two are coins are the same, each has it's own eye appeal and price evaluation. 
Also, Mr Leiss represents that The Florida Department of Regulatory and Economic Resources has assigned him a case number making it "evident that they agree" with him is preposterous.  Clearly that statement is false.

We contend that he is attempting to use agencies such as BBB , Ripoff Report, and others to extort  money from our firm for his coin. He has remorse that he may have sold the coin too cheap, that he could "perhaps"  received more money had he contacted others to buy it.  The fact is that we sold his coin for a modest profit of $2,000 (which we are happy to provide proof of the sale to any regulatory agency) as soon as we bought it.  In fact we told Mr Leiss this and he still was determined to attempt to make unrealistic demands upon our firm, threaten us if we didnt wire him more money.

We feel that we paid fair wholesale market for the coin in question and no additional money is due Mr Leiss.  

We deny his claim for restitution on the grounds that we paid him OUR TOP DOLLAR BID and he accepted it.  We neither low-balled him or deceived him.  We made an offer and he accepted it at the time of this transaction. 

We have reviewed Mr Liess' additional responses to other agencies and in our final analysis we find that :

                                A: At the time he contacted us he had also stated that coin dealer he purchased his coins from had "ripped him off" and similarly he would never do business with them again either. He could have done his due diligence on pricing with that company and regretably for him he didnt when he made his purchases and is now retaliating against us.
                                B: He is now using our firm to scapegoat his dissatifaction with his decision, a decision he had ample time to consider before selling Park Avenue his coin.  Instead, after agreeing to a deal and accepting payment in full on his terms, not ours, he continues to look for loopholes, and/or reasons to slander Park Avenue and create ways to discredit us, which he has not done, in an attempt to extort money from us with threats of giving us a bad reputation.  Please let the record reflect up unitl which time we met Mr Leiss we have had NO COMPLAINTS!  This is our 1st EVER on this site!  

We have stated our case to to agencies and organizations, we have a Stellar reputation within our industry and with our current and past clients.   We cannot offer any further comments to satisfy Mr Leiss unfortunatley and wish him well.

Park Avenue Numismatics 
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#2 General Comment

Retail Comerce and The need for profit

AUTHOR: Bubba Lee - (Canada)

All retailers need to buy there product at %50 of what it is estimated to sell for.

SO your rare coin dealer needs to buy a $14,000 coin for $7,000 for it to be worth while being in business. This is due to the inevitable fakes, rip offs, stolen product bought and surrendered to law enforcement, pieces that need to be discounted for sale, power bills, rent and taxes he has to pay for.

The 2 X cost rule really does not change for large ticket items.

So your Rare coin dealer gave you more than %50 based on his understanding of the market value, this constitutes "Top Dollar". It does not mean "Retail", it means highest portion of "retail" Or auction possible. So then the market value is demonstrated to be higher than he expected by this recent auction.

I am really surprised he hasn't just laughed at you every time you called or contacted him.

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