Pella Aluminum Clad window frames rotting Pella, Iowa

Hi JP,

This entire thread regarding your specific problem with the Pella Pro Line series windows piqued my curiosity. You raised the question of whether or not you issue was caused by a product design defect. Since I'm not a engineer that specializes in fenestration, I limited my comments to issues with aluminum cladded wood windows in general, based on many years of personal experience and acectdotal evidence. I cannot in good faith claim to know with any degree of certainty that Pella Pro Line aluminum clad window windows do or do not have material or design defects. So, being a window installer who wanted to know more about Pella specifically, I looked into it further. What I found is very interseting.

You may or may not be already aware, but there is a pending class-action against Pella that alleges "design flaws" such as those you described. Results of some of the websearches I did seem to give weight to the possibility that the case has merit. And by the fact that the U.S. Supreme Court, on January 18th, 2011, has allowed the action to move forward, they apparently agree. Furthermore, the action provides for two classes of claimants. You may potentially be entitled to relief under the first of these two. And since I'm not a Lawyer either, I'm not going to attempt to give you legal advice.  However, I do have experience in assisting with product liability cases, for whatever it's worth.

So, JP, an intersting sidenote here: I have read literally dozens and dozens webposts and blogs of alleged problems with Pella Pro Line aluminum clad windows, similar in nature to what you have described. Only ONE blogger even raised the question "...what about maintenance?"!!!! Even more suprising to me, was that not one follow-up was attempted to address (her) question. Unbelievable!!! So this only reinforces what I was trying to get accross about the shear numbers of homeowner I have met, that are totally ignorant of the maintenace aspect in all this. In my mind this begs the following questions: What were consumers told IN WRITING, BY PELLA with regard to proper product maintenance? How were these windows marketed to the consumer, ie, "maintenance free" or "low maintenance"? etc.

I would like to make the following suggestions if you haven't done so already:

1. If you have your original warranty card and other written corrspondence from Pella, great. If not try to obtain it from Pella Corporate. If the windows were purchased through a Pella authorized vendor, get that together as well. Obtain the engineerd drawings if possible.

2. Contact the attorneys persuing the class action. I would list the name of the firm here, but it would only be redacted anyway. Google it and you will find it listed. It's a Chicago firm that filed the case in the 7th Circuit Court. This has been an ongoing action so they should have all of the demand letters already. You may be able to join this class, or choose to opt out. If you choose to join the class, then

3. If not already provided by the Plaintiff's law firm, have your windows inspected by a structural or mechanical engineer that specializes in fenestration and have him put his findings in writing. It may cost you a few dollars. How much I don't know. Obtain photographs of your windows and make it part of the report.

4. Don't be tempted to embellish your experience with the windows. If you didn't maintain them, fine just say you didn't (Some people do, trying to "bolster" their case, but Lawyers and engineers are smart people so don't risk your credibility). After all, my guess is that this will be part of the plaintiff class' argument anyway, that consumers were unaware that they were required to maintain these windows.

Best of luck,

Duane

Hi JP,

On these particular windows, you wouldn't see any caulk around the glass/sash frame interface when new, because it is not there.  What IS there is glazing bead ("black tar") down between the cladding and glass, and you wouldn't see it unless you had to fix a broken glass pane.  Any caulking would be placed there later by the homeowner, if and only if an inspection revealed that this seal had failed.  This is normal maintenance for any wood or cladded wood window, not just Pella.  And, unless you have an obvious water leak, it could be difficult to determine whether or not you have an issue.  Some of the less obvious signs of water intrusion may include: Mold and/or mildew, ants (yes for some reason they love thes areas) and binding of the sashes.  I have actually seen entire ecosystems growing on windows!  It happens, believe me.
 
You yourself actually confirmed what I had stated earlier; The four windows that are located in protected areas don't seem to be an issue, whereas the other nineteen (exposed) windows have had problems.  This is very typical and exactly what I would expect to see when called out to a customer's home.

I feel bad for everyone in this situaton.  They, without a doubt, were pobably told by their salesman "Yeah, these are awesome windows, and you never have to worry, they're built to... " blah, blah, blah, just to close the sale and make their commission.  I think a lot of homeowners are mistakenly led to believe that they never have to do anything more after the windows are installed.  I am told time and time "I can't believe this.  I paid damned good money for these windows and they were supposed to last..."   What?  Last forever?  Without maintenance?   But, again and again, this is what I hear from homeowners.

My "beef" is not with the windows themselves, nor the warranties involed.  Pella Pro Line windows are good quality windows.  They are expensive.  And because they are expensive, homeowners expect and demand a lot.  No, it's the way the windows (in general) are sold.  Homeowners should always be told "This is a wood window and as such needs to be maintained on a regular basis." But unfortunatley they're not because it doesn't drive sales.  Today's homeowners "typically" do not have the time, money or desire to be a handyman, and if they were, I would be out of a job.

Sorry about the rant JP, but I see it all too often and it's my hope that I can help to educate anyone looking to buy windows, especially expensive ones.  I wish you the best of luck!

Respectfully,

Duane

Duane,

Please believe me when I say that there was never any caulk on the exterior of the windows.  The only seal was the internal tar strip.  Believe me, I have double checked more than once.  I have 4 windows in my house that are not exposed to the elements.  They are under an 8' wide overhanging porch.  They never get wet.  Only the bottom half of the window is even exposed to light - and only for about 2 hours a day.   As a matter of fact, the screens have been out only twice.  If there had ever been any caulk that had blown off, worked out, etc. there would be some evidence of it. 

The one good thing about these particular 4 windows - they will never leak!  Cant say that about the other 19

Hi JP,

First, I want to say that I didn't mean to pick on you, per se. I saw your post and since I have had a lot of experience with homeowners with the same issue many times over the years. I thought it would be a good forum in which to help those that may be in same situation.
 
Cladded wood windows , whether made by Pella, Marvin, Anderson (doesn't matter), are all quality windows with a price to match. They ALL require proper annual maintence. Wood is wood, and cladded or not, sooner or later it will sustain damage if not maintained. Unfortunately the homeowners I meet don't seem to know this. Typically they don't read their customer care or warranty information, until a problem occures many years later and it is too late. "Well the salesman said..." Believe me, I hear it all the time.

A typical one year limited warranty assumes the window-properly installed-will perform as designed for one year without additional maintenace. Manufacturers offer their warranties based on product materials, design and testing. To do otherwise isn't good business. Let me put it another way. Companies would be committing financial suicide to offer a 2 year warranty on a product they knew, through testing, would only last 1 year without maintenance. They gave a 1 year warranty for a reason.
 
Having said all that, some warranties aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Try getting factory service from a struggling window company (a lot of them are these days) or worse, one that is going out of business. Consequently, I don't let the warranty play too large of a role in my decision whether or not to use a window. Quality, product design, company reputation and pricing should always be one's primary considerations when purchasing windows, not the warranty.

As to your issue specifically, it is very common for the exterior glazing bead ("black tar") to pull away from either the glass or cladding over the course of a few years and therefore must be checked and maintained. Heat and moisture affect the materials, all to differnent degrees. Aluminum and vinyl does expand with heat (called "Heat load") and contract with cooling. Wood also expands and contracts with heat AND moisture, at different rates than the cladding and, over time, will cause the glazing bead to fail and create voids allowing water and even insects to intrude.  With regard to your assertion that a windshield doesn't leak using the same "black tar", well, that's a totally different application and structurally VERY different from a window (apples and oranges).

In closing I do hear and understand your frustration in all of this. I am willing to bet that the salesman probably didn't tell you that "Hey, by the way JP you're going to have to check and caulk all your window frames and glazing at least once a year." Not a huge selling point for today's busy homeowner is it?
Good luck.

Duane,

I agree that the windows, like the rest of the home does need maintenance.  I do check the caulking between the window and the brick regularly - and had there been caulk around the windows between aluminum cladding and the glass it would have been something I would have thought to check as well.

My point is that even when the windows were brand new, there was no visible caulk between the frame and the glass.  Was it my responsibility to take a brand new window and put a bead of caulk around the glass?  Who would think that a brand new window would require caulking around the glass? 

After replacing and repairing the windows, I can see that the only seal for this window is internal.  The aluminum cladding has what appears to be a tar seal (about 1/8" wide bead) that adheres to the glass.  I also noticed that in some cases, it was obvious that the tar seal "rolled" out of the channel leaving a gap in the seal between the frame and the glass.  Apparently, the manufacturer felt that an internal tar seal was adequate.  My point is that this seal, as designed, is not adequate, and therefore an apparent design flaw in the window.  Had the manufacturer felt that an additional seal was necessary, and also caulked the glass to the cladding, then the external cauling would have been maintained. 

I have owned a few houses.  I have seen many windows where the glass was caulked to the frame - and maintained them accordingly.  BUT if the manufacturer - or the installer -  did not feel that the windows should be caulked on the outside, why would the home owner?

An internal tar seal is not a revolutionary idea.  When designed properly, they can and do work.  The windshield in your car has an internal tar seal.  They do not leak.  And I would bet that most people do not caulk their car windshields.

With regards to the 1 year warranty on the window, I think most people would agree that this is just about worthless.  Even without a seal, it would have taken longer than a year for the frame to rot out.  This type of problem takes years to manifest itself, and therefore a 1 year warranty is useless.

Just to start, I do not work for Pella. Never have.  I am a window installer in S.W. Florida that specializes in extruded aluminum and vinyl replacement windows.  I have replaced many windows over the years, of all types and manufacturers, including Pella. 

First, the warranty as stated by Pella in your post, is very typical of most of the window manufacturers today.  Some warranties are longer based on the materials used in the construction (vinyl and extruded aluminum require less maintenance overall) but, they usually fall in a similar time range.  Shop around if warranty is that important of a selling point.  

Second, the Pella rep is right in pointing out the fact that the window must be maintained to prevent water intrusion and subsequent damage. This is paramount for ANY window manufactured with wood.  It becomes even more important to maintain windows (any exterior opening for that matter) when the home is located in a northern climate, especially with wood frame exterior walls. You even stated that the window were 7-8 years old, were never caulked or maintained, when you noticed the first signs of damage.  I would say that the window perfomed well in spite of the lack of annual maintenance.

When I install new windows (whether new construction or retrofit) I make it a point to the homeowner that they must maintain the caulking around the window perimeter and to check the glazing around the frames at least once a year.  Here in Florida that would be checked prior to the summer rainy season.  Up north I would recommend once in the fall (if/when you winterize) and once in the spring after the last hard freeze.

Wood, and  yes, even aluminum and vinyl expand and contract with variations in temperatures that can cause caulk joints to fail.  I recommend a quality elastomeric caulking for your region.  You pick the brand, but just remember a $7-10 tube of quality caulking is still cheaper than replacing windows costing several hundred apiece.

Good luck.