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Report: #101252

Complaint Review: Performance Coatings - Penofin - Ukiah California

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  • Reported By: Denver Colorado
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  • Performance Coatings - Penofin 360 Lake Mendocino Dr. Ukiah, California U.S.A.

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I do most of my own home remodeling. In six years, I've spent $80,000 remodeling my home. One year, my Dad & I put cedar siding on my home. However, even before proceeding with this project, I called on the (stain) manufacturer's of Penofin (Performance Coatings, Inc.), as recommended by Home Depot employees, to understand the exact specifics of how and when to apply this product. I am employed full time as a Molecular DNA scientist and am quite accustomed to following and documenting all technical applications to the finest of detail.

Consequently, I noted every specific comment and detail of my conversations on applying this product with their technical service reps. made during two occasions before I even began applying Penofin.

I then purchased their lightest "penetrating oil finish" that they make, "Cedar" from Home Depot. I applied it to my cedar home per the finest of technical details as noted from my phone conversations with their service group and as instructed on the container. Immediately, I noted that it turned my cedar home dark brown and black rather than the light honey color hue that I had been promised. Still the technical service reps insisted that all was well and in time with U.V. light exposure, my house would lighten considerably. Two years later, my home still remained a very ugly dark brown and black.

At this point, their technical service reps, (still living in denial about this product), recommended that I purchase a cleaning product called "Simple Green", dilute it with water and spray it on. Allow it to sit for 20 minutes then power wash it off with cold water. I spent one full day doing this and it made no difference whatsoever. I called back and their technical service rep stated "Oh, a customer called us and said it works much better if you use hot water from your hot water tap to power wash it off with."

At this point, I wondered why a customer would have to tell them how to work with their product. But I tried it anyway, utilizing hot water from my hot water heater tap to power wash it off with. Exhausted, it still made no change whatsoever. It wasn't until a couple of months later, when attending a Home Show, when I met other disgruntled homeowners of whom experienced the exact same outcome with Penofin that I had with their cedar home or decks, that I finally figured it out.





Ultimately, I hired a wood finishing company to strip off and remove Penofin and replace it with their product called "Wood Iron". My home looks absolutely beautiful with "Wood Iron". I contacted Home Depot in December 2003, and they were very kind and apologetic for my experience with the "stain from hell" a.k.a. "Penofin". Thus, I only held them liable for the expense that I had incorporated from purchasing Penofin from them, $829.24. Depot refunded that amount promptly. But the cost that I incurred to remove Penofin was $3,220. And I hold Performance Coatings completely responsible for this as well as all of my wasted time invested, as I followed through on their very futile instructions during those 2.5 years.

I have corresponded with this company, Performance Coatings, since Dec. 2003 to express my complete dissatisfaction with their product, all to no avail. The best that they can respond with is that "it's the best stain product out there" and "you didn't put it on right." Bull. I called this company numerous times before, during and after putting it on, to make sure it would be done 100% correctly. So if a Molecular Scientist, can't put it on right because it's that difficult to apply, it shouldn't be sold in a 60 billion dollar a year national market such as "Home Depot", for which 80% of their sales directives and products are focused on the home owner who does their own home repairs and remodeling. Also, Penofin is the most expensive stain product that Home Depot sells at $106 for 5 gallons. Consequently, I used it as sparingly as possible so as not to have to buy more product than was necessary.

I have called on Performance Coatings executives numerous times but they're hiding behind their desks. They don't call when I'm promised they will etc. They know this product is a ripoff and they don't want to deal with someone that knows it AND has the technical background, documentation and pictures to prove it.

Jan
Denver, Colorado
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 07/29/2004 05:29 PM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/performance-coatings-penofin/ukiah-california-95482/performance-coatings-inc-penofin-rip-off-dishonest-deceitful-business-practices-ukiah-101252. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
0Author
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#8 General Comment

proper preparation paramount

AUTHOR: tradesman - (USA)

POSTED: Thursday, May 19, 2016

Stains have a tendancy to magnify anything and everything on the surface.  Before applying Penofin even on new wood it is imperative that you clean and brighten the wood surface.  Penofin makes a three component stripping and cleaning process that works very well.  I learned of this from thier website and used their cleaning system on a mix of recycled/dirty wood and new wood from the lumberyard on a recent project.  The results were impressive after stripping old finish,washing and brightening.  Before using any exterior pentrating oil it is imperative that you prepare the surface properly and thoroughly.  I have found with most finishing work that the majority of your time on the project will be in the preparation.  Also, if you over apply Penofin and do not wipe off the excess it will gel and remain tacky and be a magnet for dirt.  I've found the directions on the can are pretty clear.

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#7 General Comment

Penofin Problems

AUTHOR: VTPainter - (USA)

POSTED: Sunday, July 05, 2015

 First of all, let me say that I am sorry you spent so much time and money on your project without seeing your envisioned results. However, Penofin is a specialized product that requires attention while applying. You CANNOT over-apply it, and you MUST wipe it for the stain to perform. I have been painting houses in Vermont for 15 years, and Penofin is one of the finest wood products for vertical surfaces I have found. Unfortunately, your project failure is due to operator error.

Either you did not remove the mill glaze from your wood, did not wipe properly, or the moisture content of your wood was too high when stained. Also, you should not stain in direct sunlight EVER with any product. Penofin gels quickly on hot surfaces. Also, your financial numbers do not make sense. I just got done with a Penofin project last week (Marine Oil). $8 million home, 2 - 3 stories, custom everything cedar and mahogany. I used 11.5 gallons on the first coat and 7.5 on the second coat. Which means I spent $1000 on the Penofin not including tax. Your home should have taken 4 gal MAX for a cost of around $200. So in closing, read the label. Do what it says. The results I get are always beautiful and I get a lot of "Wows" from homeowners. I have, however, stopped using Penofin on horizontal surfaces because it really takes seasonal maintenance to keep it looking sharp (still repels water but looks dull and worn after 3 months)

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#6 Consumer Comment

I've had a similar experience

AUTHOR: Michael - (USA)

POSTED: Friday, March 13, 2015

I've had a similar experience with Jan. Mine is with my oak floors in my house that are 53 years old and beautiful. I used the verde product, and when it dried, came back to see some glossyness. 

When I called customer service, I luckily got the manager of the department who assured me that using their cleaner will take the glossyness out. It did, but also took a lot more stain out too despite having been cured for over 36 hours. The cleaner also managed to turn my floors gray. 

When I called back, I was told that the product just needed to dry, it was completely safe for the environment and in fact, I needed to go back over it because I missed some spots. I did and it turned the floors even arker gray. 

At this time, I'm being told that I didn't follow their directions and their warranty is only to refund the cost of the product. It has been over 48 hours since I've asked to have this go to another manager and have yet to hear from them despite sending a follow up email each day. I'm still being told it is all my fault and she continues to tell me their warranty. 

The terrible thing about this, I too their word on using the cleaner. After all of this happened, I looked at the package and it doesn't say anything about using it indoors. I've shown the people at the hardware store where I bought both the stain an the cleaner from and they side with me... no where does it say for indoor use, so they shouldn't have recommended it to me, and no where does it state I should have done a room in small sections despite their instructions they emailed me said to use a push broom to do this project, which implies one can do it all at one time.

 

I suggest that no one buys penofin as their product support and corporate policies are the worst I've seen ever.

 

Michael

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#5 General Comment

penofin great product

AUTHOR: rick53 - ()

POSTED: Friday, July 25, 2014

this is in response to the guy who put way to much oil on his siding.i haved used penofin products on my deck more then once and first of all with any product you should always do a test area that is not in a noticeable area.have you ever bought paint without looking at the small chips they give you or carpet or tile without bringing home a sample,this was your first mistake,the second you put the product on way to heavy.penofin on decks has a tendency to pool up if you go to thick and making you a science major  doesn't make you handy.in fact there is a lot of people that are very smart with books but when it comes to pratical commonsense its a another story,so please ,us common folk are no different then you.i'm sorry for all your labor and the screw up but a lesson learned.for every complaint that penofin gets im sure they have a bunch of positive letters.try taking a small board or a tiny area of you home or better yet have someone who knows the product apply it to a test area and i believe you will see.if i was penofin thats what i would set out to do that you can see that you were wrong and another thing penofin is not the manufacturer of simple green as you implied.and next time use a neutral oil with no pigment

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#4 Consumer Comment

Applied Waaaaay too much.

AUTHOR: Regular Joe - ()

POSTED: Tuesday, June 25, 2013

This is a response to an old complaint but this complaint showed up on the first page of my search for a Penofin supplier and it disturbs me that this could possibly affect the ruputation of a very good product.

Long story short.The complaintant didn't read the label on the can. It specifically states 175-300 square feet per gallon. Here is the quoted evidence from the complaint:

"Thus, I only held them liable for the expense that I had incorporated from purchasing Penofin from them, $829.24."

"Also, Penofin is the most expensive stain product that Home Depot sells at $106 for 5 gallons."

If you allow for tax that is 7 pails of Penofin. Again, that is a total of 35 gallons of stain or enough to cover 6,000 to 10,000 square feet of wood. Even if only half that amount was used it would be enough to cover a large 2 story log home. Looking at the pictures I see no second story.

If your going to use the product excessively, use the clear first. Let it sit for a week, a month or a year then you can put some tinted Penofin on. It's easy to apply.

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#3 General Comment

Proper Preparation Procedures - ANY Exerior Wood Sealer

AUTHOR: ProFinisherSince96 - (United States of America)

POSTED: Wednesday, April 13, 2011

I have been working with woods for a long time. I have worked with them in humid climates and dry climates, and in many applications. From Log homes to decks to fencing.....there are some basics anyone should know. 

First of all, with regard to this article, the people who work at home depot and other similar places who are making 8 -12 per hour and giving you advice on how to apply your products that you are about to purchase, are working there because they just got out of High School and needed a job, or they for whatever reason did not make it in their profession. If they had made it, they would not be making $8 per hour. Its not meant to be offensive, but just the truth. Thats why you want a PROFESSIONAL APPLICATOR to give you an estimate on your project, with a detailed scope of work. I would also suggest PAYING him for his information if you are going to just use it to do it yourself. Gas isnt free, and time is money. If we are talking morality here, lets go all the way.

But I can tell just from looking at the pictures that a proper prep job was not done. If the wood is dry and unsealed, but yet when it is wet, it darkens up (as it would with penofin, or ANY OTHER penetrating wood sealer) it is evidence that more prep work needs to be done. Stripping the wood surface down mechanically, or in many cases chemically, could do the trick. There are many such products and methods that can be used. But, obviously, none were used here untill after the fact. If penofin was applied after that initial strip job was done, and the deteriorated wood and coloration was removed, I am sure that you would have a better product on the house with a similar look.

I say that this is the applicators fault. Why? Well, I am an applicator. Also, becuase the Applicator should have done a test spot and let it dry before they did the whole house. This disclaimer is on just about every product.....probably because molecular scientists who made are pretty smart, and molecular scientists who work with DNA are also. So they probably don't think they need an dumb applicator. To those that have a practical doctorate in thier feild in years of service and innovation....I want to forward this as a prime example of why people should respect your insight and experience.


They might seem expensive, but they are allot less expensive than this mistake! 

Once again, no offence meant here....but if mentioning that you are really smart is important to prove your point, I think mentioning that not every one with a degree in ONE  SPECIFIC field, is smarter than a 2 yr Associate in another!


BTW, DNA is a language, with over a billion letters. English only has a couple of dozen. We all speak English. We are all intelligent....how then is it that a language can exist with a billion letters in it, and many DNA scientists with degrees say that there is no intelligence behind it? If they cant get that right, I don't expect them to get their house right either, no matter how many degrees they have.

 Regards,
A Paint and Stain Pro In Denver

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#2 General Comment

Proper Preparation Procedures - ANY Exerior Wood Sealer

AUTHOR: ProFinisherSince96 - (United States of America)

POSTED: Wednesday, April 13, 2011

I have been working with woods for a long time. I have worked with them in humid climates and dry climates, and in many applications. From Log homes to decks to fencing.....there are some basics anyone should know. 

First of all, with regard to this article, the people who work at home depot and other similar places who are making 8 -12 per hour and giving you advice on howto apply your products that you are about to purchase, are working there because they just got out of High School and needed a job, or they for whatever reason did not make it in their profession. If they had made it, they would not be making $8 per hour. Its not meant to be offensive, but just the truth. Thats why you want a PROFESSIONAL APPLICATOR to give you an estimate on your project, with a detailed scope of work. I would also suggest PAYING him for his information if you are going to just use it to do it yourself. Gas isnt free, and time is money.

But I can tell just from looking at the pictures that a proper prep job was not done. If the wood is dry and unsealed, but yet when it is wet, it darkens up (as it would with penofin, or ANY OTHER penetrating wood sealer) it is evidence that more prep needs to be done. Stripping the wood surface down mechanical, or in many cases chemically, could do the trick. There are many such products and methods that can be used. But, obviously, none were not used here untill after the fact. If penofin was applied after that initial strip job was done, and the deteriorated wood and coloration was removed, I am sure that you would have a better product on the house with a similar look.

I say that this is the applicators fault. Why? Well, I am an applicator. Also, becuase the Applicator should have done a test spot and let it dry before they did the whole house. This disclaimer is on just about every product.....probably because molecular scientists are pretty smart. So they don't think they need an dumb applicator. To those that have a practical doctorate in thier feild in years of service an innovation....I want to forward this as a prime example of why people should respect your insight and experience.


They might seem expensive, but they are allot less expensive than this mistake! 

Regards,
A Paint and Stain Pro In Denver

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#1 Author of original report

Join us in a nationwide class action lawsuit against the makers of Penofin, Performance Coatings, Inc.

AUTHOR: Jan - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, August 20, 2004

As of Aug. 20, 2004....
After not hearing back from Performance Coatings in response to our certified letter demanding a full refund of $3,220 by 8/16/04; we will proceed accordingly. Our subsequent actionable resolve will ensue as follows. We have decided that we have learned the hard way about this product after investing much time and money. And we were so extremely deceived and have been ignored by Performance Coatings, Inc. for so long, that we are now rallying other victims to join in a nationwide class action lawsuit against Performance Coatings. We've done the homework and are garnering strong legal representation to go after these guys. But we need your story too! So after putting your story & pictures on "ripoffreport.com"; please register with all other nationwide victims by submitting your Rip-off Report, then our lawyers will contact Rip-off Report to have you contact us.. Join us in claiming full financial reimbursement so as to compensate for lost time and finances, deeded as a direct result of your using this pathetic product called Penofin!

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