• Report: #393131
Complaint Review:

Point To Point Destinations - PTP Destinations - West Coast Timeshare

  • Submitted: Thu, November 20, 2008
  • Updated: Mon, September 10, 2012

  • Reported By:Sometown British Columbia
Point To Point Destinations - PTP Destinations - West Coast Timeshare
877 Hamilton St. Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
  • Phone: 604-646-0090
  • Web:
  • Category: Resorts

Point To Point Destinations - PTP Destinations - West Coast Timeshare I bought a timeshare from Point to Point Destinations and I am very unhappy with the product and the way it was sold to me Vancouver British Columbia Canada

*Consumer Comment: Westcoast Timeshare/Point to Point Bankruptcy Crelogix Harrassment

*Consumer Comment: law suit point to point destinations

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: A carbon copy of what happened to us

*Consumer Comment: PTP Destinations: the VICTIM was set FREE!

*Consumer Suggestion: Thanx you

*Consumer Suggestion: I can help you

*Consumer Comment: Amazing Story

REBUTTAL BOX™ | Respond to this Report! | Consumer Comment

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I bought a timeshare from Point to Point destinations in Vancouver, BC. I feel that it was a very bad deal and that they completely misrepresented themselves. I would recommend that you read this before you purchase from them and if you have already purchased from them and are not happy with it or the way that it was sold to you, you should read this then sue them. You will win.

This all started by speaking to a girl in the mall in Victoria whom was giving away tickets to a new Chevy truck. My wife stopped to fill out a form and I said don't do it, it's just a scam to get your phone number and email. They are just going to bug you forever. The girl said that she was just there helping to watch the truck but she talked a lot about time shares.

I asked if this was attached to timeshare sales and she said no it was only to promote the new line of trucks. It was not true, a few weeks later we where called and told that we where the winners of a two night stay at the Rosedale on Robson hotel in Vancouver. All it would cost is something like $99.00 and we would need to attend a quick tour of the hotel.

When we got there for our appointment time for the tour we stopped outside the door and made a pact that no matter what, we would not get sucked into buying anything that this was obviously a timeshare thing. We sat down at a small table in a large room filled with vacation posters and decorations and playing background music. I thought it was strange but the girl that was our guide for the tour was the same girl from the mall.

She said to us you probably made a pact with each other on the way here that no matter what you would not buy anything I made it very clear that I was only interested in learning about there hotel and had absolutely no intentions in buying anything today. I said that I wanted to make that perfectly clear so that we would not be wasting each others time. She started the sales process and asked us some questions about vacations.

Then she asked us to write on a paper a list and again I said that I was not interested in doing this that I just wanted to get to the real deal. What are you selling and why do you think I need this so bad. She said it was mandatory that we just write something down. I wasn't sure what she was looking for so she told me what to put down on the list.

I remember thinking that it didn't really sound like my answers but she assured me that it was just a way of seeing things differently. I remember my wife sarcastically saying to the girl what did you want me to write on here? She told us that we had to sign it to prove that we where here. Those papers quickly disappeared and where never mentioned again. I thought that it was a waste of time and I asked her if we could just get on with it because I didn't want to be there very long.

1) This will only take an hour of your time.

I was there for more than three hours of non stop high pressure sales. I was totally exhausted by the end of it and could hardly think. That was when they started offering me free dinners if I bought it now. Right from the beginning it seemed like a well rehearsed sales scam.

2) They even sold to my children.

They had been entertaining my kids in another room with movies and popcorn but nearing the end they brought them back in with us and where asking them tons of questions about how they would feel about going on vacation all of the time.

3) Very high pressure sales.

It started out quite friendly with only one salesperson but when things got going they told me that they where going to bring in there manager because only he had the authority to sell us a lower priced package and give us more stuff in the deal. Another salesperson came in and acted like the hero offering us double the points for one year and no dues for one year and $100.00 gift certificates for a five star restaurant at that point it became very uncomfortable and confusing with now two people telling us so many facts. I couldn't keep them all straight. I even said that their was so much information being given that I felt confused.

4) Buy back guarantee.

This was probably the most important thing for me and I made that very clear that if I ever wanted my money back that they would buy them back. I was told that if I ever wanted to sell it to just call them and they would buy it back so that I wouldn't sell it on the open market and devalue there program. I questioned that point and made him repeat the fact and he made it very clear that they would always be there for us if we ever wanted to sell them. He spoke over and over again about how cheap we where getting these points and that it would be a good deal for him to them back. He said that it would be a no brainer because they would just buy them back and resell them at an even larger profit. I can't stress enough how many times I went back to my need to know that I could always get my money back and every time it was confidently answered the same.

5) This is a great investment that will only go up in value.

Using the comparison of real-estate and the fact that real-estate had gone up in value therefore this will too.

6) Demoralizing.

He said don't you want to do good things for your family? Be the kind of dad that they can look up to?

7) A play on emotions.

You have to have something to leave to your kids when you die and why not this. Because it is real-estate it never goes away you can leave it as an inheritance. They will thank you for it. They deserve it.

8) This is real-estate.

I was told that it was real-estate and that it could be used as an asset in my portfolio. I was told that you can even just call a real-estate agent and they will sell it but you don't need to do that because we will always want it back again. This is totally not true. It is not recognized by the bank or by a realtor as real-estate or an asset but more of a liability because of the yearly dues. This has nothing to do with real-estate.

9) You do not need a lawyer to review this.

I asked if I could have a lawyer look it over they said that they did not recommend that because it would only add to the cost and that I would not get the same price if I didn't sign it today. They promised that they had gone over everything that I would need to know and said that I should just trust them because they do it all of the time.

10) You will have a document to prove it is real-estate.

When I asked about the real-estate deed I was told that it is in the fine print in the contract and that I would get a copy to prove I own it. Again not true.

11) You are an owner and this can never be taken away from you, you will own this forever.

On the Preferred membership acknowledgements form that they made us sign it states Congratulations and welcome to Vacation Ownership at point to point destinations That is just not true. I am a member of a vacation club. I am not an owner of anything. If you miss a membership payment you will lose your points forever. We spent a long time talking about the fact that this is a tangible asset. This is something that you own and can hold on to.

12) Point to Point destinations owns the hotel.

They made it very clear that The Rosedale on Robson was their hotel. They said that is the hotel that I would be part owner of as well. That was a big part of building my confidence in them. I did feel that they must be a huge company if they own that hotel and they said it over and over again that that was Their hotel. I was speaking to a salesperson in Parksville about my timeshare and she asked who it was with and I said it's the Rosedale on Robson. She said that they owned suites there as well and if I didn't buy from them then I must have gotten it at Point to Point. I questioned her and said that they told me that it was their hotel and she said no they just have an agreement to sell rooms there, same as us.

13) Home resort.

They told us over and over again that the hotel that I would be investing in is the Rosedale on Robson. The hotel that they own. The participation agreement that we filled out has a resort ID # 5760 and resort name of Point to Point Destinations on it. I asked why it didn't say Rosedale on Robson and they said that that's what the ID# is for. If you go on the RCI website and type in # 5760 to search the resort, it comes back saying that it is invalid resort #.

14) You own a piece of the building.

They used the example that to make it more affordable to own, the developer had broken the shares down like bricks in the building because as an individual I could not afford to invest in the building so they just sell me a few bricks but I have rights of ownership just like all of the other investors.

15) Fake customers at the sales seminar.

We where just at the end of the high pressure sales part and they where doing everything possible to get me to buy and suddenly there was a huge eruption of clapping and celebration across the room. Another couple had just signed a deal! They where opening champagne and cheering. Every one was so happy for them. He said to me, holding out a pen, your next, all you have to do is sign the paper I admit it did make me feel comforted that I wasn't making a huge mistake after all they just bought it. I believe that they where actors there to try to make you feel that it must be OK if they're going to buy it.

16) Today only price.

I was told that the developer had just released a few points at way below cost and that it was a very special deal but I would have to buy them today to get that price. They said that because I was buying a smaller package than normal and it was such a great deal that they needed special authorization from there manager because no one ever gets this good of a deal. I spoke to a representative at Point to Point today and was told that the package I had purchased two years ago was still going for the same price today.

17) Must buy today.

I said that it was something that I was definitely interested in but for a purchase that big I would like to go back to the hotel room and sleep on it and we could meet again in the morning. I was told that if I walk out the door now, all deals are off and I would never be able to get the prices being quoted again.

18) Must buy today.

Again I asked to be able to come back and was told that I was only allowed to attend this meeting one time because they gave me a deal on the hotel room for the night. If I left, I would never get another chance to buy this great deal. I would be forced to pay full price

19) Unrealistic mark up on product.

I have been told by an ex timeshare salesman that there is up to a 60% mark up of the value that goes directly to sales and that is why they are so pushy to make the sale.

20) Unrealistically over priced product.

One reason I didn't want to buy that day is I wanted to be able to check and see if they where selling it at a realistic price. These points can be purchased in unlimited quantities on many web sights for as little as 5% of the original cost. Check E-Bay. That's why they didn't want me to leave. In the consumer protection act it states that you can not sell something at an unrealistic mark up of its value.

21) Unrealistic example of future vacation costs.

He asked us a few quick questions about how much we would like to travel then brought over a print out that stated in the next 50 years we would spend $2,012,694.00 on vacations. He then said or would you rather just pay $20,000.00 once and vacation for free the rest of your life?

22) No fees at check out.

They said how great it would feel when you check out at a resort and there is a zero balance owing. That is never true; there is always some sort of housekeeping fee or maintenance fee at every hotel. It is never all paid for.

23) Easy to use.

It is a total nightmare to try to set up a vacation using this program. You first must first try to choose from a limited number of hotels and then call and reserve the room. Then you have 24 hrs to try to secure a flight that matches your allotted dates. Or backwards you book your flights then try to find a room that matches your flights. It never works. I went to Las Vegas for a three day trip and it was impossible to set this up. I ended up giving up trying to use the points and I just went to a travel store and within fifteen minutes I had booked flights and a room and in the end it was cheaper than it would have been for me to get the flight and use the points.

24) Always available.

There is never anything available for me when I do a search. I have been told that RCI holds the rooms and then sells them back to the hotel for more than they make off of the members. This is totally true as I was at a hotel in Parksville and was told that the room that I had requested was not available through RCI that I would be way in the back of the building. I asked what we could do and they said that I could pay full price for the room and also pay the cancelation charge to RCI! After phone calls to RCI and back to the front desk, I ended up staying in the back of the resort.

25) You will always get the best rooms in the resort.

If this where true I would have gotten the room up front in Parksville as I had the first time that I stayed there and used RCI points instead of the one in the old part of the resort that is saved for RCI. That is not true because as I said I stayed there before using RCI points and was given a room up front on the water and when I called to reserve it this time I specifically told them that I wanted a room in the same area as I was in last time.

26) Always available.

When I questioned availability in Mexico they went away and came back with a print out from the RCI website. It did not show the dates that we had requested and when we questioned this he said that his computers where all down but he had just printed one off before for an even more popular time just to prove how many choices there are. It showed tons of resorts that they said where all available. I later learned that he had given us a print out of the web page just before the one that confirms availability. The truth is when you continue on to that page there is never anything available.

27) Points for a room.

When we spoke of how many points it would take to go to Mexico they showed us a piece of literature with the point values for the rooms that we would require. This worked out with the package we where being told to buy we could have two vacations to major destinations per year and still have points left over. This was totally not true. The resorts on the RCI website charge double that or more. We would be lucky to have enough points to go once a year.

28) You can save your points and let them build.

It's true, for a charge they will hold your unused points for one year. After that they just disappear. They lead me to believe that you could let them build up forever and just pay a point rollover fee every year.

29) You can make money from your points.

If you are not going to use them all you can easily sell them for money. Pretty much impossible, I have tried to help friends get a cheap vacation and with the extra charges and difference in cost as apposed to just going into a travel store it has never worked out. There contract even states that they in no way have told me that this could be used as an investment or a way to make money from renting it. Although they did tell me it was an investment we spoke at length about ways that I could use it to make money, they are correct. You can't.

30) You can use your points and get a free rental car.

It takes so many points plus hidden charges to rent a car with points it would be cheaper to buy a car in most countries. I looked into it in Mexico and it was way cheaper to not even mention RCI points.

31) Maintenance fees rarely go up.

They said that the maintenance fees are $382.00 per year and that year after year they see that they rarely get raised. The next year they where $464.25!!

32) What if we wanted to purchase more points?

They said that they are only pennies a point that it is always a great idea to buy more at a later date. That is totally not true, they work out to more than .50c each and for a vacation costing 15000 points it would be over $7500.00. Not including all of the fees and airfare.

33) Bait and switch.

On the tour they showed us the Owners suite at the Rosedale. It was magnificent! It looked like it came straight out of a decorating magazine. Later that night we ran into some other owners and spoke of that room and they laughed and said that the room we saw was only for the sell and that the rooms that you really got when you stayed there where nothing the same. They let us see there room and it was the same as the one that we where given as the reward for showing up to the sales seminar, totally plain outdated old hotel room.

34) Always available.

The same couple in #14 also mentioned that I wouldn't need to worry about that because we would never be able to get a room anyways that they are always sold out for that day, whatever day you ask for. It is true; I have never since been able to reserve a room there when I come to Vancouver. They are always sold out that day.

35) Cheap airfare.

They had a clipping from a popular on line air travel site that showed return air fair to Mexico for only $99.00 and they used that figure when calculating the cost of our fantasy holiday. My actual cost worked out to just under $1000.00 each. The people at the travel agency said that the only time they get that low is for leaving the next day and that I would not ever be able to get them because I would need more notice to reserve my room with RCI

36) All you need to do is pay you're all inclusive fees at the resorts .

They told me that the average all inclusive fees at a typical resort in Mexico were around $200.00 per person per week. This was also used to calculate the cost of a vacation showing us that it was going to be so cheap from now on. All of the RCI resorts in Mexico charge around $1200.00US per person per week.

37) You can even stay in a three bedroom in Mexico for the same price if you have the points available. It wont cost you any more because you are an owner

I reserved a three bedroom suite in Mexico for our big holiday and found on the internet that the hotel will charge me for six adults for the all inclusive at $1200.00US each if I stay in that room. I called to Mexico and found out that it was true that they had me down as owing $7200.00 US and that would need to be paid on arrival. If I wanted to only pay for the four of our all inclusive that I would need to switch to a one bedroom with a pull out couch. I had already booked the time off work and paid for my airfare. After several phone calls and many emails we got them to give us a two bedroom but we would not get the extra points back unless we called RCI and paid the cancelation fee. Screwed again.

38) Cheap holidays forever.

The actual cost of that holiday was double the cost that they told me it would be. The example they gave was $99.00 each for air and $200.00 each for all inclusive so they told us that we could go to Mexico for $1200.00 We paid $1000.00 each for air and $1200.00 each for all inclusive plus the booking fees it worked out to be over $8900.00 that is not including the yearly membership dues and the yearly RCI fees. The cost for that same trip is advertised this week on the Flight center web sight for $1200.00 per person including air and hotel with all inclusive. That would only be $4800.00 for everything.

39) You will always get the best rates for tours from the resort.

Actually the tours at the resort in Mexico where almost double the cost with my RCI discount. We ended up going to a travel shop in the mall in Mexico and getting them for half the cost.

40) You get complimentary shuttles to and from the airport.

True we did get a free ride to the hotel (strait into another high pressure timeshare sales seminar.) But on departure I was told that only the people who bought the timeshare there got a free ride back and because there where four of us it would cost me double because they would need two taxis. The shuttle bus was only for owners

41) You get treated like an owner at the resort.

The truth is I spent my entire vacation warding off the non stop harassment to buy their timeshare even when I explained so many times that I had just bought one and was not interested.

42) We won't keep bugging you.

I get phone calls all the time from them and it is always a recording so I can't stop it. It uses up my air time by leaving long winded messages about all of the great deals that I am missing out on.

43) No one has ever asked for their money back.

I asked how many people had backed out and asked for their money back and they said that it had never happened before. They said that everyone knows that it was a wise decision.

44) You are going to feel like you have been scammed.

They sat us back down after everything was done and another girl came and sat with us and said tomorrow you are going to wake up and feel like you have been totally scammed. You may read an article about other bad timeshares, your friends will tell you it was a mistake or your wife may be thinking that you shouldn't have done it they said that this is perfectly normal to feel this way, everybody gets this feeling. They told me that my friends would just be jealous and to remind my wife that it was a great deal and remember all of the reasons why we had done it and all of the good times we are going to have. They told me that no matter what I am feeling they did not want me to do anything for at least two weeks. Give it at least that long to sink in. Remember every time you are getting this feeling, what a good thing you have done they called this the two week cooling off period I believe that they where referring to the seven day cooling off period in the consumer protection act! It is the law that all timeshare contracts must show on the front page that the consumer has the right to cancel the contract within seven days and if it is not there it must clearly direct you to the page where it is clearly printed. It is not on my contract at all. I just found out that I could have cancelled it.

45) Had to fight for the double points that where promised.

A few months later I realized that we had never been given the double points for the first year. I called to ask why and they told me that they had no record of it. It took several phone calls and a lot of persistence but they finally agreed to give them to me as promised.

46) Pressure to refer leads.

They tried very hard to get us to give them names of other people that we felt would be interested in becoming owners. We said that we would think about it. Then they started telling us about how much we would get for just giving them the names and numbers. They said that they would even give us $600.00 if they purchased from them. They where very pushy about this and it became most uncomfortable. Then they started calling us and sending letters wanting us to refer people. They where even offering free cruises!

47) Signing the papers.

At the end of the deal when we where signing all of the papers they where doing everything so fast I said is this for everything that we discussed because you aren't even giving us time to read all of this? they assured me that it was all just legal jargon and not to worry. We have done this enough times to know that everything is in order. At that point they made us sign a credit card authorization form, a consumer promissory note, a preferred membership acknowledgements form, Bonus time terms and conditions form, a bonus time summary form, a personal information form, a credit check letter and a form to confirm what they will provide. That was when I suggested again that there was no way for me to possibly read or even know what I was signing. Within a few minutes we had given 7 signatures and 11 initials on over 8 documents.

We got to one form that was filled with things to initial that we where apparently agreeing to. One of the first ones was about the buy back guarantee that we had spent so much time talking about. It said that there was no guarantee! I asked what it meant and they told me that there wasn't an official plan in place but they where working on getting it finished and although they haven't got it printed yet it was definitely what they did and that's all that we are signing is that we understand that. He said read the print it just says at this time There where a couple other points that I was starting to question and again they seemed very hurried and tried to rush me through it.

After we where done signing everything they took the papers away and returned with them with more of the contract as they had only shown us the last page to sign . They put it in a blue folder as well as a CD and told us that it was all in there and pretty much pushed us out the door. I looked at the contents later and noticed that the contract we had signed was now many pages long and we had only been shown the last page to sign.

This whole thing started at the mall with lies and misrepresentation to get our personal information. The draw for the cheap hotel stay that they claimed we had won was a scam to get us there and the whole sales process was a complete scam filled with again, lies, misrepresentation and unscrupulous high pressure sales tactics. After hearing about there product, I admit that I did want to own what they where selling. Who wouldn't? If there product was even half of what they said it was it would have probably been a great deal.

It has turned out to be nothing at all as they sold me. Everything that was said about what they where selling and how it was to be enjoyed has turned out to be totally untrue. I feel that I have been sold a totally worthless and completely unusable product. I feel that the sales process is a brutal way to do business and should be stopped. There are laws against doing business like that. I feel that I was completely scammed out of my money and sold something that is not anything like what was described.

Someone with the power to stop this scam should take an hour of there time and attend a sales presentation and see first hand that everything in this letter is true. Something should be done to stop this and protect other people from being sold something that they are not going to get. I have sent a letter to West Coast time share (Point to Point Destinations) telling them that I was angry with the product and the way that it was sold to me and that I expected a full refund of my money and they sent me a reply that they would not entertain my request for a refund.

I am now going to sue them and I am confident that I will win. If you have already bought a timeshare from them and are unhappy with it or the way it was sold to you, I encourage you to do the same. You will win. They broke the law. If you have just bought a timeshare from Point to Point Destinations you can cancel it within seven days without any reason.

Concerned citizen
Sometown, British Columbia

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 11/20/2008 12:29 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/point-to-point-destinations-ptp-destinations-west-coast-timeshare/vancouver-british-columbia-v6b-2r7/point-to-point-destinations-ptp-destinations-west-coast-timeshare-i-bought-a-timeshare-393131. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

Westcoast Timeshare/Point to Point Bankruptcy Crelogix Harrassment

AUTHOR: Cindy - (Canada)

I have a similar story, but now that They have gone bankrupt is there still a way to sue them or get our money back?  Crelogix is harassing the people we gave them as a leads list of people who we thought would be interested in a timeshare, I thought our payments were going to Vacation Internationale and I continued to pay them because of that, but when I found out our payments were going to nothing I stopped payment at my bank until I could figure out what to do about it...and they just changed the amount coming out of my bank my bank has suggested that I close down my account as they feel it is illegal for them to do that to me...is there anything I can do to get my money back from Crelogix, or stop their harassment of my family and friends?
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#2 Consumer Comment

law suit point to point destinations

AUTHOR: Erin - (United States of America)

I'd like to know if there is a lawsuit still in process that I can join, I am sick of dealing with the lies this company has told me years ago and are still saying the same lies.

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#3 REBUTTAL Owner of company

A carbon copy of what happened to us

AUTHOR: Another Sucker - (Canada)

If I didn't know better, I could say the "Original Report" was written about us, precisley!

We received our "maintenance" invoice today and called Point to Point to let them know that we will not be paying this because being as how we were told the "property" was deeded (and that we could even "WILL" it to our children) only to find out there is no real deeded property, why should we.  They just asked if they could send us a copy of the contract. 

Unfortunately for us, my wife's health (massive heart attack) would not permit us to leave the province let alone the city and this news came just after our 30 day "cooling off" period.  Knowing that it would be a long road to recovery, we tried to get our money back (even with a few thousand dollars loss) but we were told they do not buy back!  We were NOT told this in the presentation, as a matter of fact "they" said "they" wanted first chance to buy back!!  We didn't even get a copy of the "contract" until 3 months after signing.

For those of you who are disappointed members of Point to Point Destinations, can you advise us what our next step would be, and if you have had any success recovering any of your membership costs, please?

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#4 Consumer Comment

PTP Destinations: the VICTIM was set FREE!

AUTHOR: milam - (Canada)

Here is my story for others to learn from:


I went to PTP Destinations presentation. After hard-core sales pitch- 3 professionals worked on me- 2 sales reps and one manager, I was a toast, ready to sign up the contract. GOD was watching over me, manager couldnt find these papers. One of the sales persons was literally holding my purse, asking for me to wait 40-45 minutes for them to bring the contract. Ive told that I ll be back, and firmly asked to return my purse to me. Their problem was that free incentive they already gave to me was in that purse, Ive got it. I guess, because PTP staff was disorganized, so theyve lost such a hot prospect. Another victim was set free!


I am eternally grateful for not signing these papers. The lesson is learned. In hopes others can read from this great site and avoid some very costly mistake.



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#5 Consumer Suggestion

Thanx you

AUTHOR: Timesharereturn - (Canada)

Hi John, it was nice talking to you. Please contact the lawyer as soon as possible to get things started and don't forget to file a report here on ripoffreport. If you have any questions please feel free to call or email me anytime. Shaun (((ROR REDACTED)))

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
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#6 Consumer Suggestion

I can help you

AUTHOR: Timesharereturn - (Canada)

Hi There, I made the mistake of buying a timeshare from Point to Point Destinations in Vancouver and I am very disappointed. It has turned out to be nothing that they claimed it would be. I have joined a group of others that are currently suing them. If you or someone that you know have also purchased a timeshare from Point to Point Destinations (West coast Timeshare) and are not happy with what they sold you or the way that they sold it to you I would like to help you to get your money back. Please email me anytime I will give you the information.
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#7 Consumer Comment

Amazing Story

AUTHOR: Karl - (U.S.A.)

After all this philosophical discussion about the ridiculous sales pitch for three hours you actually BOUGHT an Interval Vacation!!! When you tried to use it you realized that this was not what was presented. The contract you signed spelled out exactly what was provided but you signed it anyway letting the salesman overwrite it verbally. You tried it out and didn't like it so you are suing them. If anything your detailed treatise tells all of us why these things are not worth the paper they are printed on. Anybody considering an interval vacation or timeshare should read this. I'd recommend that you publish it in the Vancouver paper or contact an investigative reporter who wants to run with it. Your experience is exactly why I don't take advantage of all the "free" nights at resorts that I'm offered and don't sign up for "tours" of properties.
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