Putt Putt Auto Dealer Contract Breaches, Consumer Fraud, Bait & Switch *UPDATES ..more rip-off complaints *Thank you Rip-off Report

YOU SAY LOOK AT THEIR CUSTOMERS WOULD WE LOAN THEM $100.00 WELL MY QUESTION IS IF THERE SO BAD WHY DO THEY SELL TO THESE PEOPLE COULD IT BE THAT NO ONE WITH GOOD CREDIT WOULD BUY PUTT PUTTS JUNK. SO THANK YOU FOR PROVING THAT PUTT PUTT AND OWNER LLOYD JORGENSON PREY ON PEOPLE WITH BAD CREDIT. ALSO SHOLUD YOU BE THE ONE WE LOOK AT WHEN WE ASK ARE SELF WOULD WE LOAN THIS PERSON $100.00 HOWEVER YOU MIGHT FEEL DIFFERENT ABOUT THE SITUATION SINCE YOU NO LONGER WORK THERE. HAWAII IS SO NICE RIGHT NOW

Good,fair, or bad credit should not play apart in

the deal of buying a car. Good credit good car,

fair credit, fair car you change brakes on in 10

days,or bad credit, bad car breaks down after you

sign the deal and leave the lot. Car dealers are

not abiding by the laws!



They need to be punished!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,

report it to your Attorney General's office. Report it to Motor vehicles and your D.A.'s office. The rip-off report was a great start! We

were ripped off by Team Toyota.



A consumer, because of credit worthiness should

not be forced to sign a contract in blood. At the

very least a safe and sound, reliable vehicle, for transportation should be key. Most consumers

that have lost a loved one, or a job, divorce, etc. would not mind the higher rate of interest

and starting over if the vehicle would out last

the payments!



It is totally outrageous to me that middle class

and lower class citizen are treated like aliens

with dealerships, banks, finance and credit

card company's all thinking that they are doing

consumers' a favor, but by the time they hit you

with all the hidden charges, the interest rate(max that they can) You could damage yourself all over again. Lets face it, It is a get-rich-quick

scam, Here today gone tomorrow! Your bad fortune

their good!



It definately gives meaning to The Rich get Richer and The Poor get Poorer.



Mr. Liby I wish you Luck! Be a voice for those

that need to be warned Less fortunate at a moment in time does not mean a person should

lose their dignity and possibley their lives or

loved ones lives, because some sleezy car dealer

is not being reported!



If the Attorney General is contacted enough by

the citizens the will investigate, and file a

class action law suit! A list of signatures will

be added bonus. You should also contact you local news station, most have a on your side segment investigated team.



I'm sorry, I know it feels!!

Good Luck again.

Scammed in Baton Rouge, La.

This is to the moron who had to put brakes on his car after 10 days! Did you know that Arizona state law requires that ALL used vehicles go through an inspection and certain things must be required of a car before it can be sold by a dealership. One of those things is that the brakes must have AT LEAST 50% of the pad left. So, if you had to replace them within 10 days, the you too were victimized by Putt Putt Auto Sales. It may not have been as harsh as the others, but it's the still being screwed. And how do you know that the gentleman with the Talon that was overheating got a new car?, is that what they told you? Are you really that niave? If I was screwing people on a daily basis don't you think I'd lie too?



My advice to anyone is to just stay away from there.



I went there a few days ago just to see how bad it really was. I took my laptop which has wireless internet access so I could look up KBB prices right there in front of them. I also checked CarFax right there. I ended up getting kicked off the lot becasue EVERY car I checked was being mis-represented by them. Either there were accidents on file, which I don't expect a dealership to know about unless the car has a salvage title, but they shouldn't say that the car has NEVER been in an accident, they should say that they don't know if it has. KBB prices were also MUCH lower on the internet than what they produced for me.



There are many more dealerships in the valley that sell decent cars to individuals with bad credit than just Putt Putt. Ugly Duckling has a bad rap, but they are starting to sell newer cars that still have factory warranty! You have Earnhardts, Consolidated Auto Sales, and many many more. Check around first. Do research. If you buy from Putt Putt you ARE going to be screwed!

I read through your reports by the sounds of it you didnt look at your contracts before you signed them. So to me it is neglect on your part. I know for a fact that one of the complaints on this is uncalled for, the gentlemen complaining that his eagle talon over heated. He was put in another vehicle a matter of fact a nicer vehicle than the one he had oringinally purchased. If any of you know anything about corporations you would know that they have to follow procedures just like any business does. Also they are a high risk finance company. Before you judge how strict or unfair there practices are look at some of thier customers and ask yourself would you loan them 100.00? They loan 5000.00 to people who cant get financed anywhere else.



To let you all know I bought a vehicle from them a 91 blazer. I had to put brakes on it 10 days later but that is wear and tear of a USED VEHICLE. When I purchased it I changed the fluids. I have had that vehicle for well over a year and not a thing wrong with it except normal maintence.



These are not new vehicles here people and YOUR state inspects all vehicles that are purchased from another state. So ask yourself who didnt inspect this vehicle correctly. Putt Putt? Or your lovely state of Arizona?

The following post below by the victim is not true. The victim was forced to make the statement below to get Putt Putt to fix the car, making him put the blame on "Big O" tires, which badbusinessbureau.com Consumer Advocate knows is untrue.

Yes, Big O' Tires did try to get the victim for repairs not needed, but there were repairs that should have been fixed by Putt Putt, that they were not being fixed.



This victim still has to get his interest rate lowered and money refunded for what they did to him as reported above in the original Rip-off Report. The dealer is welcome to write back a check to the victim to pay off the car to the new lien holders.



Putt Putt insisted that if they did the repairs, that he post the following to the Rip-off Report:



Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:20:47 -0700

To: info@badbusinessbureau.com



Putt putt's representative has requested that as a show of satisfaction and good faith that I should post a page saying.



They did fix my car, due to a major f**k up by the idiots at BIG O' Tires, some major s**t got started over the safety and reliability of the vehicle. The car is safe and is in good working condition, and I would like to further thank Nora Louckes for being the voice in putt putt's ear.



I agreed to have this posted and that I would not have any more COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE CAR, this does not mean that I can't complain about the other problems that have nothing to do with the car not working properly.



::::::::::::::::::::::



Any other victims of Putt Putt, please send us your Rip-off Report for a possible class-action law suit against them for their business practices of deceiving consumers, changing contracts, forging contracts and how they tow your car away if your just 5 minutes late, then charging you over $300 to $600 for towing it less than a mile away. These towing people work for and hang around every afternoon at Putt Putt. We have pictures, statements and recorded conversations.



They also have a dealership on Van Buren in Phoenix.



Victims against Putt Putt

In order to make this real clear I must tell you about my

payments. My payments SHOULD be $65.09/week,however, I was told to disregard the 9cents and that it didn't matter. Well that was the swindel!



Now , after almost 7 months of being forced to pay for a car that sucks,A mysterious past due payment of $70.50. So I called badbusinessbureau.com and it was sugguested to me to go back immediately and find out what is up with that with my tape recorder. When I went in there with a friend and a distant relative, I asked about this obvious attempt to place a hidden charge, and under Liz Stone's breath (putt putt secretary )she said "jesus christ". VERY UNPROFESSIONAL!!!

She went on and LIED by saying this has been a long term ongoing problem with their computer program and the guy that set it up was in CA. and they couldn't get a hold of him to fix the problem.



I reviewed all of my receipts when I got home and not one of them had a past due balance that is supposed to be automatically calculated by the computer.



Here is the BIG question???



How does .09 cents add up to $70.50 in 7 months?





I think and know they were hoping I wouldn't check so the repo men who were hanging out with the GM could go repo my car so they didn't have to deal with legalities,and so they could sue me for the remaining balance and resell my car again.





I have some news for them! After I pickrt them and let everyone know who and what they are, I will colect other victims while picketing, then I will take them to court because I AM GOING TO SHUT THIS DEALERSHIP DOWN AND SEE THAT THE OWNER(S)OF THIS DEALERSHIP WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO OPERATE A BUSINESS AGAIN.



What they are doing is so illegal,and immoral that it is odd that nobody has done that already. They are money crazed whores that only care about seeing who could sell the biggest piece of s**t (previously wrecked)and make the most money.PUTT PUTT YOU ARE BUSTED GIVE UP WHILE IT'S CHEEP!!!!!

1W1-20

Since this story first ran we have had numerous complaints about these underhanded strong arm tactics that Putt Putt regularly pulls on their unsuspecting customers. Reports of their tow truck waiting around your home to see if you made it to them on time for your payment. If your just 5 or 10 minutes late, they snatch up your car and charge you over $600 to get it back in most cases. This is a regular procedure of Putt Putt. What a racket!



The many past and present consumers that called into badbusinessbureau.com were asked some specific questions. We have come to the conclusion that Putt Putt way over prices their cars, putting the consumer in a difficult position if they ever want to sell or trade in the car, because the consumer is so "upside-down" with the car. That means, the car is not worth anywhere near what you owe on it, making it impossible for you to sell the vehicle or trade it in. Putt Putt did not invent this concept. This is a normal practice with most "Buy Here Pay Her" car lots nation wide.



::::::::::::: Coming soon on the Rip-off Report.



How to buy a car for less and get your interest rate much lower. Know your "ISAAC Score." Your "ISAAC SCORE" (which you never get to see) will let the lender and the car dealer know how to determine your interest rate, so the dealer can put the screws to you.



We will let you, the consumer know how to get your "ISAAC SCORE." The dealer will know how he can screw you out of money by knowing your "ISAAC SCORE" by automatically charging you a much higher rate on your loan. This puts big dollars into the dealers pocket after they already screwed you on your car purchase.



.. this Special Report is coming soon on the Rip--off Report with other badbusinessbureau.com Auto Consumer buying TIPS



ALSO::::::::::

Getting you to sign a contract, letting you keep the car for a week thinking you have one percentage loan rate. But not so! They will end up calling you back saying, "Look, we can't get you the loan at that rate, it will have to be 2 to 4% points higher.



By this time they probably got rid of your trade forcing you to buy either a different car OR making you pay more cash up-front... We will explain how to deal with them so YOU, the consumer will come out way ahead.



any questions? e-mail us at:

EDitor@ripoffREPORT.com

After consulting with www.RipoffREVENGE.com through the badbusinessbureau.com, I have created the list below which will be made into a legal size flyer to be handed out to business up and down the street and through out Apache Junction.



I will then be picketing directly in front of the PUTT PUTT MOTORS Rip-off Auto Dealer.

While picketing, I will be gathering other victims who have suffered the illegal tactics of these thieves who operate out of??



WHERE ARE THEIR MAIN OFFICES???

Is it Chicago? Florida? Dallas? Mesa?? Buffalo NY???

Every time you ask them where the main offices are or who is the owner, you get a different answer for the main office location, and no one knows who the owner is?



The following is a list I put together to give an idea of how they operate and will be published on my flyer exercising my first and 14th amendment rights.



Then, below that is a more detailed story that explains the brief statements made below.



1) they bait and switch



2) Neglect and damage my property (collateral) by letting disgruntled employee steal and sell it. I had to fight to get it back, then they return it destroyed.



3) False guarantee that all cars undergo inspection and are in great condition.



4) Refuse and neglect to provide reasonable info. regarding the vehicle history.



5) Sell cars "as is" with a warrantee and then they don't honor them. They will procrastinate, till your warrantee runs out.



6) Illegally reposes most of their financed cars and resells them, over and over and over again!. After being 15 minutes late they repossessed my car!



7) They eagerly anticipate the repo of all their customers.



8) They brag about said repo(s)



9) Repo men endanger lives of customers recklessly speeding out of

driveways and through neighborhood(s) damaging the vehicles.



10) Cause unnecessary stress in their customers lives.



11) Witnesses to the repo men stalking around my neighborhood well before the payment is due.



12) Witness ('s) to the endangerment of my life.



13) Payment was due 9:pm, car was repossessed by 9:15pm. They were called I would be there by 9:30



14) Repo men fails to show identification.



15) Repo man showed no concern with my intent to make payment (when I showed

cash in hand) in good faith. Explaining, I was on my way there in 15 minutes I just called them 5 minutes ago.



16) I am a victim a a fraud.



17) AS members of NADA (national automotive dealers association) .....they are required to employ knowledgeable

employees ...they failed



They neglect customer request's & pleas to inspect potentially dangerous problems same day of purchase.



My contract is in default by PUTT PUTT



Refuse and/or neglect to check into potential defaults in a reasonable (quick) manner.



Neglect items holding as collateral and fail to keep them in good faith (they don't even know what they have) Regular policy of keeping collateral with no intentions of returning it.

A) I was not made aware of ANY financial disclosures i.e., the Interest Rates, Total price of the vehicle (which I had asked for several times, only to go unheard) , Balance due, nor Finance charges



B) The deal was made during sunset so by the time I was in the office it was very dark, this is where I was misrepresented first. After filling out the credit reports and the credit reference sheet I waited for them to verify everything, then we discussed the down payment and the trade and I was asked if I had any collateral that I could give them, like speakers or guns?! I said that I had a very nice guitar that I had put a lot of time, effort, and money into. It is a mid to late '70's Hondo Explorer, a very rare guitar that is not made by that company any more and would be nearly impossible to find another one. So w/ all of that taken care of the switch came. At first I thought that The reason he had done that was because that car was cheaper so I didn't think twice. The initial test drive was fine so we closed the deal, the whole time I was pre occupied with paper work, trade conditions, and collateral, all of this was time consuming as well as exhausting the fact that he never got around to telling me what the actual price was slipped my mind until review of my first payment receipt, then switching the vehicle without my knowledge.



With in days after the deal serious problems were starting to be detected and are still showing up, more than enough to classify this particular as a LEMON. A) in the light dents and scrapes were noticed (not really my concern ). B) all but the back drivers side tire were severely worn and tread coming apart. ( by contract I only have to pay $25 toward the first 2 repairs) C) tires were different sizes in front or back. E) after 1 week (only 7 days) major defects were noticed in the entire suspension system as well, as the steering system.



The legal contract I signed stated that I had 10 days to make a payment before late charges were applied, nothing in that contract implies that my account will be repossessed for being 15 minutes past due. A) Delinquent accounts (I assume this means more than TEN days late) will be repossessed and all accounts will become due and payable. B) The next morning I tried to get in touch with some one who could answer my questions as to where my car was, could I get it back immediately, and how much it would be . 1) I was told, as well as, in my contract it says that repossessions could cost anywhere between $300-800 depending upon the effort put in to the repo. A) I live less than 1 mile from the dealership. B) you could walk to my apartment in 5 minutes, but they drove. C) I paid over $600 to get my car back . D) I requested an itemized list of the expenses, but never received it. E) Why did I have to pay so much? No answers. F) I reported this to corporate and was insulted in front of my mother and called a liar by Lloyd.



The following is additional documentation of all the problems, misrepresentation, and breeches compiled:



MISREPRESENTATION OF PURCHASE ORDER



I have eagerly been awaiting the time where I could get my guitar back and have been very disappointed. I asked about it to see if they would return it to me and increase my balance up $600 because I have made very good on my end. Kevin (sales person) said he didn't know where it was and that he was looking for it because he wanted to buy it ? , but I assertively let him know it was indeed mine and ONLY COLLATERAL .( I am a musician, but even musicians make sacrifices for their families) I asked him if he would please check in to it and he has told me he is but there is no evidence of that. I was told by Geo that Lloyd had it at his house and it was being well taken care of, but Lloyd knows nothing about this.



It has been 3 months since I have seen my guitar, this instrument is worth much more to me than just a dollar amount, and it is irreplaceable. On 12-7-00 I made my car payment and was told that they were checking into it, and other items were missing as well. Putt Putt was and is not authorized to do anything but hold this instrument, no deadline was given to me but yet it appears that they have disposed of my property without notifying me. (breech, and misrepresentation). The guitar is all original and an antique, while living in chandler I met a man who worked for the Paul Reed Smith (Guitar designer) as a guitar tech. and on many occasions he tried to persuade me out of it. He also did a lot of technical work on it which is not complete, but still makes a great difference, without changing the original parts . ( the only thing new about the guitar were the strings). This guitar was a lucky find and I cherish it, as well as use it professionally. I am very skeptical at this point "walking on egg shells " trying not to get frustrated with the way this is being dealt with, buying a car and establishing credit is supposed to be a positive experience but for the most part it has been negative, I should not feel this way, afraid to speak up for my rights both civil and contractually, but due to MY experience that's the way it has been up until now.



MISREPRESENTATION OF GUARANTEE'S Directly form Putt Putt Guarantees below:



This statement is a misrepresented guarantee: "Our professional buyers inspect hundreds of vehicles each week , only a few are selected for Putt Putt, these vehicles must pass rigid mechanical evaluations ." (What if my transmission would have locked up on the freeway ? ) I have an implied warranties which gives me more rights than the dealers warranty. The vehicle I have been financing did not pass a rigid mechanical evaluation, which IS an event of default, and would not without intensive labor. This failure to abide by their own guarantee has created hardship in my life.



BREECH OF WARRANTIES AND CONTRACT (Event of Default)



As previously stated, I have an implied warranty which means the dealer has to take care of all serious problems. When told about the steering and suspension problems I was told to have it fixed and it would be deducted from my loan balance. This is not how business is supposed to be conducted. This is unacceptable. The next month (under 2 months) the transmission failed, again I was expected and forced to pay money I didn't have (to spare) to have the car towed, when they have people that can do that. After this I have experienced enough (but there's more) to more than cancel the contract.



NADA CODE OF ETHICS (National Automotive Dealers Association)

Operate the business in accord with the highest standards for ethical conduct.



Meet the customers' needs for transportation in a knowledgeable and professional manner.



Advertise the products in a positive, factual, and informative manner.



Provide knowledgeable, trained technicians for skilled customer service.



Detail repair charges to assist our customers in understanding repair work performed.



Upon REQUEST, provide written estimates to be performed.



Resolve misunderstandings in a prompt and COURTEOUS manner.



Obey and uphold all state and federal laws and regulations concerning financing, insurance, taxation, licensing and titling of all vehicles.



Never alter the odometer reading of any motor vehicle.

Put our promises in writing and stand behind them.



These are the ethics in my opinion have not been followed at all and intend to do something about whether in court or through mutual agreement.



THE UNIFORM COMMERCIAL CODE



The following is a list of articles broken or otherwise:



A seller (putt putt auto sales) is liable for negligence in the sale of any product which may reasonably be expected to be capable of inflicting substantial harm if defective.



Although, no physical contact occurs, the dealer's acts constitute a nuisance and interfere with buyers enjoyment of his property and/or disturb the buyer so he suffers mentally and emotionally. ( see Mcpherson v. Buick motor co. ) If the objectionable condition bothers neighbors or entire community it will be labeled as public nuisance.



Implied in law Quasi contract is a verbal agreement i.e., a verbal contract to return collateral goods when a trust is established. A contract does not have to be in writing. A contract is a legally enforceable promise of promises.



Under U. C. C. Article 2-721 either party can rescind a contract and also recover damages. When there is a rescission the rescinding person(s) is entitled to restitution i.e., to recover any consideration (s)he gave plus any other compensation necessary to make him whole.



Unilateral Mistake: When the other party (the dealership) has reason to know there is a mistake (i.e., contract on file). Promissory Note i.e., the purchase order statement of cash collateral, I will thus pay the instrument according to its terms at the time of my promise to pay. (which is also a negotiable instrument) Lack of delivery(My guitar)



Protest: a formal presentation of dishonor. This declares that the instrument (the purchase order re: the guitar) was on a certain day presented for acceptance which is an agreement under U.C.C. 2-209 that needs no consideration to be binding.



There are so many violations I am going to give references that will be produced in court but stated by number here within: 2-601, 2-605-1, 2-607-2, 2-607-3a, 2-609-1, 2-609-3, 2-712-1, 2-714-1, 2-716-1, 2-716-2, 2-721, 2-725-1, 2-725-2, 3-804.



The following is a list of what I feel they owe me reimbursement for: tires, bushings, total monetary value of trades, down payment, false repo charges, and all payments made to date.



Compensation: mental, and emotional suffering, time missed from work.



.................$2,600 trade and down payment (plus 1/2 the profit they made on my good running truck)



@$80.00 tires



@$80.00 bushings



$610.00 repo fees



@$1,175.00



@$500.00 time away from work



@$5,000 personal suffering



@$200 attorney fee



.................................



total damage and suffering $10,055







All I wanted was my guitar (which is an antique) but was willing to settle for a substandard replacement. I was refused and insulted. All I wanted was a few problems with the car fixed. I was also refused. This is totally a rip-off.



UPDATED INFO RE: CAR



Today I visited an auto body shop to have the car evaluated to determine whether or not the car had been previously wrecked prior to my purchase of the car. Upon inspection, evidence



Points to the fact that there had been a front end impact i.e.,



1) the paint has different shades throughout the entire car.



2) front 1/4 panel seems to have been replaced.



3) the hood is not the original and/or has been repaired.



4)improper prep job done when repainted.



5)airbag seems to at one time partially deployed and removed or is still intact partially deployed. In the event that it is intact and partially deployed it could reactivate and deploy while I am driving , causing very serious injury and putting residents at risk of physical harm.



.6)gaps in the hood suggest crooked frame.



Section 5 of the TiLA states that the TILA is in favor of the consumers and strictly enforced. Section 3 paragraph 8 :Obligation of the lender under this act is to PROPERLY disclose information;etc.,.

Section 8:Under this act I do not need to show that I have been deceived by sub standard disclosure(s).



All of the information within this report/document that could have been reasonably provided to me was requested and denied and/or refused due to the fact that their staff DOES NOT HAVE KNOWLEDGEABLE INFORMATION as required by NADA.



I hope that people read this and understand I am the only person who has been reasonable and I am the one who has done all the work NOT putt putt. They show disregard for every one and every thing.



KENNETH T. LIBY