Quicken Loans The Sale (pt. 1 of 11) Livonia, Cleveland Michigan

M'am,
I am sorry you have had to deal with Quicken at all.

Here is what I think about some of things you have posted.

since the initial conversation, a certain 'Mr. loser' from Quicken Loans has called my house 6+ times just today!

Yes, and even after you put yourself on a DNC list, tell/write/email Quicken to stop eventually, in a couple of months, they will call again. This is called lead recycling or SPAM leads, and is illegal. They currently operate this however, and call them Touchpoint Leads.

I have not answered.... the first message I received was fishy. There were many people chatting in the background. I knew immediately we had made the wrong choice!

You haven't made a choice yet, so don't worry. The people you hear in the background are about 100 young men and women trying to pull credit during call block and reach clients so they can try to get a loan. You may also hear a director screaming at a banker saying, CLOSE, CLOSE, CLOSE you idiot. Or something like that.
It was obvious to me that it was a marketing company. 'Mr. loser' has left numerous messages. I refuse to answer.

OK, don't refuse to answer, you NEED to answer and tell him to stop calling. Otherwise, there is no violation for him to call you over and over.

You worked for a company that basically called themselves a loan company.

No, it is a loan company; Quicken Loans Inc.
Promising to help people attain either an FHA home loan, help refinance, and whatever else.... People who work hard and want a good life for their family call or fill out an application online for someone to contact them, with wishful thoughts on starting a new future or simply call a 1-800 number.

Yes, this is how 99% of business in America is operated.

Then, upon contact, you receive the persons social security number, later call back and go forth with a so-called 'totally refundable deposit' generally of $500, sometimes more, sometimes less.... then pretend to try and get a home loan or refinance for someone but it never works out and the consumer never gets their money back?

No, you really try to get the loan. The catch is, if it doesn't work outthe loan doesn't close/you don't get your deposit back/the LO does not get paid and Danny G keeps your deposit. It is quite a cost saving method.

you knowingly screw people who already have debt problems out of yet more money that they probably needed for diapers, car payments, groceries, whatever.

Wrong. Many bankers mean well, work hard, and are misled. Truth be told, the majority of the time a client is screwed, the banker (even his director) do not even know it. You don't seem to understandthese people are SOLD on the idea that it is a good company.

It makes me sick to my stomach that 'Quicken Loans' is not only a high rated company, but recommended. This is solely due to the amount of income the company has received, not because of customer satisfaction by a long shot. As a matter of fact, if you take a look, you will probably see that there are many lawsuits being filed by the innocent consumers.

Yes there are, also, another reason Quicken is highly recommended:
1.) Danny G literally pours money into advertising and into media to ensure a clean face
2.) the company is privately owned, so they do not have to disclose anything at all.

My point being, how can you expect a no-good lieing (sic), thieving company to treat their employees well when they screw every single customer?

Again, you do not seem to understand. If you did, you would see why former employees are angry: people that work there are sold. They believe they are doing a good thing. Ever hear of the righteous mob syndrome?

Bottom line, do not work with quicken (or for them for that matter) and you NEED to call them and tell them to stop calling. Try calling Frontline instead of the banker and they can remove your lead.

First off, I can not believe what I am reading! I signed up for someone to contact me in regards to a home loan last night while on the internet. Today (The following day) someone contacted my home (my husband answered) and from there asked for our social security numbers and other personal information. If I had known my husband was doing this, I would have stopped him.... Anyhow, since the initial conversation, a certain "Mr. loser" from Quicken Loans has called my house 6+ times just today! I have not answered.... the first message I received was fishy. There were many people chatting in the background. I knew immediately we had made the wrong choice! It was obvious to me that it was a marketing company. "Mr. loser" has left numerous messages. I refuse to answer.

So here's the part I really can't believe.... Someone please correct me if I am wrong. You worked for a company that basically called themselves a loan company. Promising to help people attain either an FHA home loan, help refinance, and whatever else.... People who work hard and want a good life for their family call or fill out an application online for someone to contact them, with wishful thoughts on starting a new future or simply call a 1-800 number.

Then, upon contact, you receive the persons social security number, later call back and go forth with a so-called "totally refundable deposit" generally of $500, sometimes more, sometimes less.... then pretend to try and get a home loan or refinance for someone but it never works out and the consumer never gets their money back?

As far as I am concerned, you all had it coming! You knowingly (oh, wait, there's yet another call coming in from quicken loans! That makes 7 times in the last 2 hrs.) where was I? Oh yeah, you knowingly screw people who already have debt problems out of yet more money that they probably needed for diapers, car payments, groceries, whatever. It makes me sick to my stomach that "Quicken Loans" is not only a high rated company, but recommended. This is solely due to the amount of income the company has received, not because of customer satisfaction by a long shot. As a matter of fact, if you take a look, you will probably see that there are many lawsuits being filed by the innocent consumers.

My point being, how can you expect a no-good lieing, thieving company to treat their employees well when they screw every single customer?

Malachi, will we see the rest of this saga?

Malachi, will we see the rest of this saga?

Malachi, will we see the rest of this saga?

What can I say?

The employees are not entitled to overtime compensation but Quicken Loans is entitled to $200,000,000 in government incentive packages.

I like the quote that other states were courting the company to move. Again more threats if Quicken Loans does not get what they want.

such is life

It is funny how clear things get looking back. I worked in the Life Insurance business for 5 years before coming to Slick Loans. There was a company we all looked at like a joke, Primerica. They were multi level marketing. Less than 1% of all agents ever made any money. Working for a legitimate company, we would hire many from Primerica. Primerica would never hire experienced insurance agents since EVERYONE knew they sucked and they were full of BS. They would go after hungry people with promises of wealth. Most quit within a few months.
Quicken is exactly the same. Any legitimate mortgage professional looks down at Quicken as a employee mill. So called Bankers with liittle knowledge of the industry they can mold into liars, most unknowingly. The ones who enjoy lying to customers and have no conscience about ripping off $500 deposits are the ones that are most successful. They hire 99% without mortgage background, and the ones who do have a mortgage background, have a few weeks in the business and don't know better.

I used to not understand how people could fall for Primerica's line a crap, but now I understand. I fell for Quickens false promises and claims in hopes of making lots of money.

Yes that is exactly what it is, directors and division vice president get paid a prercentage of every loan that was written under them.

That is why the banker only gets 200 dollars for a loan that my generate anywhere from 2400-10000 in revenue for the company.

that is why the bankers are paid so badly.

So, if only 1% of all bankers ever attain the wealth promised at orientation, it sounds like a multi-level marketing scheme. Do directors earn a percentage of their teams' production?

NKA is adding an additional 3-4 per day. Trial should be sometime in middle January.

Over 50% of the current work force signed up. What does that say?

I am just curious if anybody knows anyone that has been fired since July 2007 that received Unemployment Compensation.

I am sure that at least 1000 people have filed a claim in the past 4 months. They cant have all been denied. But if they were then SHAME on The State of Michigan for not being able to identify the sham of quicken loans MASSIVE LAYOFFS. And Shame on Quicken Loans for actually trying to pull the wool over everyones eyes.

So if anyone out there knows of anyone or has actually received unemployment compensation from Quicken Loans I would greatly appreciate it if you could post your story. If you were denied then i would like to hear that story too. I have filed a claim myself and the process is moving forward at a snails pace. I received a Fact finding request from The State of Michigan which i assume is the first denial of resposibility from Quicken but have not heard anything since. This has been dragging on and on so slowly i cant believe it.

I would like to know if anyone actually fought it all the way to a hearing and what was said at the hearing and what type of representation Quicken had at those hearings. I just think it would be great if those who have tried and succeeded or failed could give the newly fired folks a heads up on what to expect.

I think it such a shame that in todays day and age that companies are allowed to strong arm States and municipalities into giving tax abatements and government grants under false pretenses and then move forward to treat current and former employees with such disregard to human life.

Frankly it took me over a month just to detune from that atmosphere, I reflect now on my time at Quicken with great malice and dicontentment. I cant even beleive now that i let myself get sucked into the "culture" that is Quicken Loans. They work on ones greed for success and wealth and at the end of the day maybe 1% of the "bankers" that work there actually attain such wealth. And those that do attain that wealth were fortunate enough to be at Quicken during the refinance boom and were spoonfed from there on out.

Great part 2 and looking forward to part 3 peace out

Keep up the great work - I can't wait for part 3. Their entire UPPER MANAGEMENT STAFF reads this site daily. Malachai - you give great detail to that Slave Sweat Shop, good job Bro!

I can't believe they would rather pay high cost atty fee's, they have to have sent 20 Million, 30 Million, 50 Million just not pay the people who built his company the bankers their overtime hours - which was forced on everyone in the building. That's what happens when you have coke sniffers running your VP/Dir. They need to clean house.

Hello 'R'

"Numbers and money follow, they do not lead." So as a Quicken supporter, you should not care what is listed as income should you not?

Additionally, just so you know, you can not say you are not for or against something and then say "just get the numbers right..." That is folly beyond your previous follies. If you are not against it, then you agree with the statement, and therefore, discrepencies in income are of little to no value.

If you are against it, then I would HOPE you would have more to say than just..."get the numbers right..."

But Hey, Let's get the numbers right then:
Here is a number that is right:

0 = amount of unemployment payed by Quicken Loans even to those who clearly deserved it and could have used it

0 = free time that Quicken Loans employees had to find a new job

0 = amount of actual leadership training possessed by directors

0 = amount of respect for quality of life and human dignity by Dan, and therefore, Bill, Pat, Jay and so on by default and/or association

0 = amount of employees who left Quicken and regretted it

0 = amount of employees who tried to get their job back, even if they needed it

0 = amount of drug tests conducted by Quicken, even after numerous and KNOWN overdoses

0 = amount of commission a Quicken banker receives as a "financial advisor"

0 = amount of peformance letters that did NOT result in termination

0 = amount of money cut from high level management while the "lower deck" received: no reviews (ops), raises (ops), promotions (ops), experienced a 50% cut in 401k matching (everyone), loss of additional opportunities to do drugs (everyone; Christmas party), and of course...opportunity letters

0 = amount of sacrifice made by the drab-4 during the "tightening the belt" and "vanilla paper" times (continuing to this day)

0 = amount of response multiple former employees spouses (male and female) received after mailing, calling, and emailing various management people (up to and including Dan) just to ask "what happened to my spouse?"

0 = amount of energy Quicken will ever invest in the ACTUAL good faith of their lowest employees

0 = the amount of bankers, STILL employed, OVER 1 year, who DO NOT do drugs, have NOT screwed a majority of their clients, and LOVE their job (all bankers will violate at least one of these...the number one violation is of course...NOT working there anymore!)

0 = the amount of calories burned in typing a pointless, yieldless response to a post.

Again, R, if your only disagreement is the numbers, then you agree with me about everything else and therefore the numbers do not mean that much given everything else that is said.

"Numbers and money lead, they do not follow."

Dear "R"

You should not be fibbing. Afterall you are now a teacher earning a honest living. Good for you.

As a former banker you no darn well that a mortgage banker makes $200 per loan, senior banker makes $250 and a executive banker makes $350 per loan.

Quicken Loans reported average profit margin is 2.2% so that means that the average banker does not make any premium on their loans. As a matter of fact a senior banker and up averages a shortage on their loans.

To maintain an executive banker status you have to close 12 loans per month. 12 loans X $350 = $4200/month add the 20% production bonus with the $28,000 annual income and you are at $88,000 per year. The banker generated $520,000 in revenue and the banker got paid $88,000 for working 70 hours per week. However only around 10% of the bankers at Quicken Loans are executive level status.

The average banker makes $42,000 for 70+ hours per week. That is the truth and you cannot rebute it. You take advantage of your employees. That is why there are 1000 current and former bankers signed on for the class action lawsuit.

And if you were making so much money on your wealthy clients in New York and California why did you quit to go into teaching at $42,000/year. The reason is that you will make more money as a teacher with a better quality of life than as a mortgage banker at Quicken LOANS. THAT'S WHY YOU QUIT!!!

Your rebuttal is very poor and you can't do math.

I'm neither defending nor attacking this post or the company, but at least be a little more fair and objective on your income numbers.

Most bankers do not average $200 per loan, especially before the big mortgage market crash. Between loan size and other products, you could often earn double on a loan. Personally, this was how I made much of my business; I built up a client and referral base throughout California and New Jersey with people who owned large, expensive homes, meaning I usually earned double on all my loans. Most other bankers would get 1-3 of these 'double loans' per month.

It's okay to make your point, but at least be honest in your assesment.

Dear Malachi

Excellent job!!! very keen observations. I have not been on the website for the last two weeks since I have been busy with other things. I thought I would take a peek and see whats going on. I have noticed that there are some new participants to the play group. Welcome ladies and gentelman. It looks like you were laid off or quick in the September and October timeframe.

I saw "R" came back and wrote some commentary about the greatness of Quicken Loans. "R" decided to go back to school and become a teacher. Good for you!!! At least you decided to make something useful of your life instead of ripping off $500 deposits from hard working individuals.

What I have learned from Quicken loans and what Malachi has very well pointed out in his commentary is that Quicken Loans is a major brain washing machine. It is brilliant on Quicken Loans behalf though how they can basically pick any hustler up off the street and within 6 weeks make them into a loan writing machine. Hey who cares if you only stay for 1 year. Quicken will make at least $250,000 off of you while you make $42,000.

What I really find amazing is how much Dan Gilbert really does not care about people. Why would someone worth 1 billion dollars continue to treat human beings like pieces of trash? Use them up then throw them out. Hey it's his life he can do whatever he chooses. I'm truly sorry to hear about the suicides, if these stories are true then its a real shame about this company.

I really hope I don't see some story on Channel 7 news about some young kid shooting up the place.

As always have a productive day and I look forward to part III.

Dear Malachi

Excellent job!!! very keen observations. I have not been on the website for the last two weeks since I have been busy with other things. I thought I would take a peek and see whats going on. I have noticed that there are some new participants to the play group. Welcome ladies and gentelman. It looks like you were laid off or quick in the September and October timeframe.

I saw "R" came back and wrote some commentary about the greatness of Quicken Loans. "R" decided to go back to school and become a teacher. Good for you!!! At least you decided to make something useful of your life instead of ripping off $500 deposits from hard working individuals.

What I have learned from Quicken loans and what Malachi has very well pointed out in his commentary is that Quicken Loans is a major brain washing machine. It is brilliant on Quicken Loans behalf though how they can basically pick any hustler up off the street and within 6 weeks make them into a loan writing machine. Hey who cares if you only stay for 1 year. Quicken will make at least $250,000 off of you while you make $42,000.

What I really find amazing is how much Dan Gilbert really does not care about people. Why would someone worth 1 billion dollars continue to treat human beings like pieces of trash? Use them up then throw them out. Hey it's his life he can do whatever he chooses. I'm truly sorry to hear about the suicides, if these stories are true then its a real shame about this company.

I really hope I don't see some story on Channel 7 news about some young kid shooting up the place.

As always have a productive day and I look forward to part III.

Dear Malachi

Excellent job!!! very keen observations. I have not been on the website for the last two weeks since I have been busy with other things. I thought I would take a peek and see whats going on. I have noticed that there are some new participants to the play group. Welcome ladies and gentelman. It looks like you were laid off or quick in the September and October timeframe.

I saw "R" came back and wrote some commentary about the greatness of Quicken Loans. "R" decided to go back to school and become a teacher. Good for you!!! At least you decided to make something useful of your life instead of ripping off $500 deposits from hard working individuals.

What I have learned from Quicken loans and what Malachi has very well pointed out in his commentary is that Quicken Loans is a major brain washing machine. It is brilliant on Quicken Loans behalf though how they can basically pick any hustler up off the street and within 6 weeks make them into a loan writing machine. Hey who cares if you only stay for 1 year. Quicken will make at least $250,000 off of you while you make $42,000.

What I really find amazing is how much Dan Gilbert really does not care about people. Why would someone worth 1 billion dollars continue to treat human beings like pieces of trash? Use them up then throw them out. Hey it's his life he can do whatever he chooses. I'm truly sorry to hear about the suicides, if these stories are true then its a real shame about this company.

I really hope I don't see some story on Channel 7 news about some young kid shooting up the place.

As always have a productive day and I look forward to part III.

Dear Malachi

Excellent job!!! very keen observations. I have not been on the website for the last two weeks since I have been busy with other things. I thought I would take a peek and see whats going on. I have noticed that there are some new participants to the play group. Welcome ladies and gentelman. It looks like you were laid off or quick in the September and October timeframe.

I saw "R" came back and wrote some commentary about the greatness of Quicken Loans. "R" decided to go back to school and become a teacher. Good for you!!! At least you decided to make something useful of your life instead of ripping off $500 deposits from hard working individuals.

What I have learned from Quicken loans and what Malachi has very well pointed out in his commentary is that Quicken Loans is a major brain washing machine. It is brilliant on Quicken Loans behalf though how they can basically pick any hustler up off the street and within 6 weeks make them into a loan writing machine. Hey who cares if you only stay for 1 year. Quicken will make at least $250,000 off of you while you make $42,000.

What I really find amazing is how much Dan Gilbert really does not care about people. Why would someone worth 1 billion dollars continue to treat human beings like pieces of trash? Use them up then throw them out. Hey it's his life he can do whatever he chooses. I'm truly sorry to hear about the suicides, if these stories are true then its a real shame about this company.

I really hope I don't see some story on Channel 7 news about some young kid shooting up the place.

As always have a productive day and I look forward to part III.

Additional introductory information; Firstly, I apologize for the delay of pt. 2. There were many issues with the posting that needed to be corrected as well as technical issues. Now, except in this initial case (because it was not previously mentioned), all responses to rebuttals shall be postponed until the final post (pt. 11 of 11). The abbreviated responses to rebuttals of pt. 1 are as follows (in chronological order):


to Jonathan Smith: Thank you for your appreciation. It is true, Quicken is exactly what their marketing effigy "Slick Loans" represents; saying the minimal required to obtain business.

to Brian: Thanks again. Luckily, one of the things Quicken does right is physical security, bankers are safe (at least from gun fire!) for the most part. However you are right, and I would not be surprised at all if this were to happen, I would however, be very sad to read the sugar-coated and false apologies from Danny and his friends about it to the families of the slain. It would be a very hollow response indeed.
to Jonathan Smith: They do. I know this for a fact from a meeting I was in that included a few directors a while back.

to Brian: True. They do spend a lot of money to investigate and spy on their employees, especially bankers, but other employees as well.
to Jonathan Smith: A multi-level marketing machine. How true. You stole the words out of my mouth as that is what one of the posts is about (it will come).

to Jim: I would have accepted any option other than the one forced, and yes, you are right, the benefit package is best. I was merely pointing out the severity of the situation: a multibillion dollar company, with a multibillion dollar leader, who is dropping employees like flies that were not being paid to begin with, and all in the name of preserving that billion for him self and a few choice others. But I do appreciate your insight. As far as my assessment of billionaires, you are right, some, some....SOME billionaires are charitable and treat their employees (Even on the lowest tier) with dignity and respect. Gates didn't use IBM, be did what they were unwilling to do and could have had they not been so stuck in the 50's. Also, there is an obvious reason Gates is rich: his PRODUCT. I am using Windows based software right now, and so are you. But a Quicken Home Loan??? That has benefitted very few people. I would even venture to say it helps no one at all. Because even if you wrote a good loan that honestly helped your client (which many of us did) you were adding fuel and money to the fire and machinery of Quicken. Which clearly, is the same as giving money to a brutal dictator somewhere for the "one thing" he did in life that was good.

to Steven: Yes, unfortunately, after receiving a "letter", many bankers decided to work tirelessly to meet the "goal". Of course they did not, what with their filtered leads and all, and boom: they are gone and left with nothing for their efforts because they "agreed to the terms". If Quicken were a car dealership, they would be the number one online car retailer: of lemons and broken dreams.

To Jonathan Smith: Wow. I really hope that is not true...but sadly, with Quicken, I would not be surprised. Sad, sad, sad.
to Very Unhappy: NICE WORK.

to Steven: Sound advice, keep posting guys.



The following is pt. 2 of 11

Marketing. All companies use it. But not to the extent that Quicken does. The ads read "50k-60k" average first year salary for a banker! Woohoo, line up. Wouldn't you? Especially when you read all these great things about the company. It should be noted, salary is 24k. So lets go on the low advertised spectrum: 50k. That means you can make $26000 your first year just on commission alone...and that is if you are on the low end of average. $26000, sounds good doesn't it? Now, you are in training for a month and a half (if you include orientation, which is the equivalent of fattening a pig before slaughter, but we will get to that later). So that leaves you with 10.5 months to make that 26k. Let's assume that there are 30 days in every month (this estimate gives you extra time). Lets also assume you work 6 days a week (no Sundays, because, you got to have some time off right?). That is 26 business days a month times 10.5 months (oh yeah, we are also ignoring all holidays, personal needs/appointments, sickness, disasters, training, meetings (some take a whole day) and anything else that could possible prevent you from working) to give you 273 days. At $200 a loan, you need to write 130 loans. Thats 3 loans a week, or: 1 every other day, six days a week, for 10.5 straight months with no holidays, no saturdays off, no sickness, no anything; just working from 8am to let's say...a modest 7pm. That is possible right? Maybe for a month. But could you keep that up? Also, we are assuming you do this the moment you hit the floor after training as well.

Back to the hours: 8am to 7pm is 11 hours. For 273 days. That is 3003 hours. at 50k, that is $16.65 an hour. You can make more than that anywhere, especially if you intend to put in that much effort. And this is all assuming you will be fine working 11 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 10.5 months with only an average of 4 days off per month. Ready to join?

That is the first wave of marketing; the lure of money. Not to mention the fact that Quicken has placed all of it's work places in areas with huge employment problems: Detroit metro area, Cleveland, and Scottsdale, Arizona. They also prefer young males who have been in less than favorable sales jobs. Why? Because the average young male in a sales job is the easiest sell in the world. They spend their whole day trying to sell people things, touting features, touting benefits, touting this and that. So when they get touted to...THEY BUY. They appreciate a good sales pitch more than the average American. They also lack experience. They also are money hungry. They also have little obligation on average. They also are "coachable" or malleable. They also are either fresh out of college and do not know any better, or have a resume that boasts very little experience and mostly at entry level sales and misc. jobs.

So you have the subject, you have their attention, now what? Well, you take them on a tour. Your HR rep walks you through the office and shows you: lavish bathrooms (supposedly Cleveland has TV's in theirs!), bright colored walls, sales people shouting and playing catch with an assortment of Nerf balls (why do sales people everywhere do this stupid stuff?), you see awesome kitchens with everything you could possibly need, you see that it is an open floor plan, the cubicles are low and not confining...etc. etc. etc. Now you really have the subject's attention. So now what?

Sell them the "culture". Let them know that you are not a typical company (which interestingly enough, every company does now). You do not believe in high level executives in ivory towers, let them know that everyone is here to help eachother, let them know...that Quicken is different, because they act, operate, and function differently. They do indeed function differently, but not in the way they tell you when you are salivating all over the place because it just looks so cool. And, it really does. The offices are very beautifully decorated and are simply a pleasurable place to be...until you are there long enough to realize what is going on. The first hint to a keen observer should obvious if you pay attention: there are NO clocks posted, and the air conditioning is on extremely high. There is another business that does this, casinos. They do this to encourage customer's to stay and spend money. Quicken does it to encourage you to stay and MAKE money...but not for you. But don't tell the subject that!

Now what? They love it, they are bought in, they want it so bad they can taste it, the company is successful by all locatable accounts online and in media...what do you do? What could possibly get them so bought in, that even when everything goes to hell and they are working over 70 hours a week for no money they STILL stay and want to do well? What could possibly get them to at least, go nuts working hard for you day and night even if it is only a couple of months? Orientation.

For those of you who have been there, you know. If you have not, well...just know that every death row inmate gets a really fine last meal and you will get the idea. Orientation is not an orientation by any means. It is a mental conditioning pep rally. It portrays management (Dan, Bill, Pat, etc.) as rock stars. It gives the impression that Quicken is, well, COOL. It's fun. It's alive. It's...different. Firstly, they put you up in an expensive place in Michigan; even if you are from Arizona. Everything is payed for. You are put through the usual classes (harrassment, security, policies, etc.) but this is different. Each class has prizes, games, even money is given away! Hundred dollar bills. You definately feel it is important and different and cool AND effective, because guests are always there: executives from other companies, hospitals, goverment organizations, sports players, and so on. All because, they are sold too, they think that this is different.

The sad truth is, it is different. The concepts Dan Gilbert speaks of are excellent. The infrastructure of Quicken is very well executed. Unfortunately, at the end of orientation, is where the ingenuity stops. Or is it?

Dan's speeches cover his much acclaimed "Ism's". All of which, are very very good. They truly are. The problem is, they are not followed. One ISM states "A penny saved is a penny." This was brilliantly illustrated. The idea is, if you spend to much time (which is not replaceable) on saving small amounts of money here and there, you likely could have overlooked those expenses, and simply spent that time on making more money; and 9 times out of 10, you make way more than you would have saved. And it is true. However, many a penny was saved from each letter that was handed out. Many a penny was saved when 401k contributions, and other things were cut. Many, MANY a penny saved at the expense of...you guessed it, employees. Many a penny was saved when operations personnel did not receive much anticipated and earned reviews, promotions, and raises. Many a penny was saved, when the rich, got richer, while the poor, got poorer.

Moving on, orientation seals the deal. If you are not bought in now, you never were and never would be, and would likely last no more than a week of training. If you are, you are about to go on a roller coaster of a job. By the end of orientation, you have: won an assortment of stickers, coffee cups, lunch bags, toys, bags, heard each of the big guys speak about how "down to earth" and cool they are. And you have heard Pat (president) give his ISM speech, and how have to make your own by a certain date and email it to him so he can review it and pick the best one which wins money. You have heard Bill (ceo) talk about how to talk to clients, why Quicken is different, and you hear his great ability to move a crowd and speak in public (he actually is a good speaker, I have to hand him that).

Well, i thought that once i was out of that place that my problems were over. HaHa wishful thinking i guess. I received my final check from Quicken and low and behold they decided to short my check by not paying any of my commisions due to me. Now, obviously this does not surprise me but after being reassured that i would get every penny of what was owed to me on all of the loans closed in my last month of employment plus my previous months commisions i felt like maybe Dan Gilberts Boys were going to live up to the ism of DO THE RIGHT THING.

Boy was i ever wrong, now i would not be complaining but we are talking about a decent chunck of change!!!! the final check that i did receive barely paid my car payment for October. Now luckily my wife works and with the 80 plus hour work weeks that i worked at quicken i did not have a whole lot of time to spend money so i was able to save a little bit of cash to hold me over but that is not the point. They are basically refusing to pay me for services rendered under their employment contract. There has to be some way that this is unlawful. I dont know know but i will definately be looking into it.

Now i was not going to say or do anything with the conditions that i was forced to work under but i am letting it be known that i am definately going to be speaking to a lawyer about the possibilities of sueing Quicken for being a hostile work environment. I just dont see how physically striking an employee is a good workplace environment. I was pucnched, kicked, jumped on, screamed at, threatened on a daily basis, forced to work overtime, shot with rubber bands, stabbed with pens, hit with staplers, had objects thrown at me, called at home on days off only to be threatened and intimidated to come into work and the list goes on and on and on. After all of this i was willing to overlook all of these things in return for Quicken to just doing what they should do. Pay me my g'damned money. however they feel they are justified in what they are doing so i will make it my mission to teach this monstrous evil company a lesson in humility. It is just unbelievable to me that this company gets away with how they treat past and current employees. The fact is that Detroit is a labor town, and the ability that these slippery snakes have to fly under the radar and get nothing but accollades about how wonderful they are is beyond me.

Quicken Loans has shown time and time again that they are not what they say, they use slight of hand and the slippage of tongue to perpetuate the image of success. I dont care how much money they make and who says they are rated number 1. In my book a snake is a snake and this company is king of all snakes. I surely do hope that the City of Detroit and The State of Michigan do not give the Millions in dollars in tax abatements and incentives that THE Company of Snakes is looking for to move to downtown Detroit.

Let the Snakes take there sweat shop mentality and lack of caring for workers to Arizona, or Ohio. Though i doubt either one of those states would want a Company like this headquartered there. I hear China and India are recruiting companies to open shop there. Maybe those Third world countries would be interested in how Quicken does business. There is no room for a company like this in this country. It's not always about the Dollars folks, it should be about Accountability!!!!! QUICKEN LOANS MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE and if they are not i hope they dont leave any slime on I-75 on the way out of our fine state. We dont need employers with an attrition rate of over 50%, we dont need an employer who has no regard for labor laws, we dont need a company in this state that has no ethics towards employees and customers alike.

I liken the Quicken Loans propaganda and brainwashing machine to that of n**i Germany in the 1930's. This company is truely pure evil. They have and will continue to chew up and spit out countless peoples lives.

I am not out for revenge, i am out for justice. If someone reads this and decides not to do business with Quicken or not work at quicken than i will feel vindicated. To quote one of my favorite movie lines "THIS COMPANY NEEDS AN ENIMA" maybe then it will be a good company for this city, until then i would be happy to see them pack up there s**t and get the hell out of Dodge.

Facts That I do know for sure!!!!
1. At the end of June 2007 quicken employed nearly 2800 mortgage bankers, they now have roughly 1600 bankers. can you say massive lay offs!!!! well not quicken, most of the 1000 plus bankers were fired for production or petty reasons. This is how they avoid paying unemployment. the funny thing is this, they are not required to disclose any mass layoffs or firing because they are a private corporation. Even more funny is that the state of michigan are not required to disclose how many applications for unemployment were filed and how many are rejected and approved. Even when one attempts to use the freadom of information act the State of Michigan refuses to provide the information due the fact that Quicken is entitled to its privacy. Can you say smoke screen??????

2. Quicken had to suspend 1 of their top divisional vice presidents because he was tape recorded threatening to kick one of his employees a*s. By the way the rumopr is that they settled out of court with that banker for a cool 1 million dollars to keep the story from getting out.

3. Quicken continues to violate the labor laws by REQUIRING hourly employees to work overtime with out being properly compensated.

4. Quicken loans has put a moratorium on all 401k matching contributions.

6. Dan Gilbert himself sent out a company wide voicemail in August 2007 stating that now was the time to take vaction, most folks who did take vacation were soon put on a letter (basically a letter threatening to fire you if you dont attain some sort of ridiculous number of written and closed loans)

7. Quicken has suspended all company outings including christmas parties and other incentives.

8. Quicken continues the practice of making millions of dollars on non refundable deposits.

9. Directors and Divisional Vice Presidents are now paid on Folders received (in other words deposits taken) not actual loans closed.

10. In August 2007 quicken cancelled the rate locks on all of there sub prime loans, regardless if the loans were viable or not. The total dollar value of these loans was reported to be about 65 million dollars because they could not find investors to purchase those loans. Quicken also attempted to not refund any of the deposits. These were folks that thought they had loans and Quicken basically renegged on the loan and kept the deposits.

11. As of September 1st 2007 it was said that quicken was holding over 100 million in loans that they could not sell to investors.

12. Quicken has no less than 3 overtime lawsuits against them right now, these lawsuits are basically a slam dunk based on past cases against other large companies for using the same practices regarding overtime that Quicken uses.


I am sorry say but something STINKS and its name is Quicken Loans


Peace out

This comment is like saying the toilet paper that they bought at Krogers to wipe their butts with was paid with overtime payments that should have went to us.

I found a list of politicians that the Quicken Loans Inc PAC donated to (as well as the individuals at Quicken that donated) at campaignmoney.com/committee.asp?committeeID=C00388827&cycle=04. I've posted a copy below as well. If this money that was contributed was meant to be paid to employees in the form of overtime, would that constitute illegal campaign contributions? If so, maybe we should contact the politicians and request they return the funds as well as publicly distance themselves from the company.

Top 100 Donations/Contributions of at least $200 to
QUICKEN LOANS INC PAC
Contributor Name Occupation $ Dollar Amount Date City State ZipCode
Gilbert, Daniel Bruce Quicken Loans Inc./Chairman 5,000 12/04/2003 Franklin MI 48025
Gilbert, Jennifer Lynn N/A/Homemaker 5,000 12/04/2003 Franklin MI 48025
Grosfeld, James self employed/Investor 5,000 01/08/2004 Bloomfield Hills MI 48304
Grosfeld, Nancy none/homemaker 5,000 01/08/2004 Bloomfield Hills MI 48304
Katzman, David Camelot Ventures/Manager 5,000 12/01/2003 Franklin MI 48025
Katzman, Nancy N/A 5,000 12/01/2003 Franklin MI 48025
Allio, Mark S. Rock Bank/CEO/President 2,500 12/01/2003 Akron OH 44333
Cicurel, Steven David Camelot Ventures/analyst 2,500 12/19/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48323
Emerson, William C. Quicken Loans Inc./CEO 2,500 12/01/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48322
Gilbert, Gary Lawrence Camelot Pictures/Film Producer 2,500 01/14/2004 New York NY 10013
Kramer, Robert A. Boomerang Advisors Inc./Consultant 2,500 12/01/2003 Rye NY 10580
McInnis, Patrick K. Quicken Loans/Mortgage Banker 2,500 12/19/2003 Commerce Township MI 48382
Pyett, Nicholas J. Camelot Ventures/Manager 2,500 12/01/2003 Novi MI 48375
Carroll, David Quicken Loans/Mortgage Banking Exec 1,500 12/19/2003 Beverly Hills MI 48025
Chyette, Richard Quicken Loans/Attorney 1,500 12/19/2003 Birmingham MI 49009
Cohen, Jeffrey Rock Construction/Real Estate Devel 1,500 12/19/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48323
Farner, Jay D. Quicken Loans/VP Sales 1,500 12/19/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48324
Hall, David John Rock Financial/mortgage banker 1,500 01/08/2004 Birmingham MI 48009
Lunsford, John Todd Quicken Loans Inc./CIO 1,500 12/01/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48324
Lyon, Michael Lee Quicken Loans Inc./Director of Mort 1,500 12/01/2003 Sterling Heights MI 48314
Mandell, Richard J. Quicken Loans/Director of Branch Sa 1,500 12/19/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48323
Piazza, StephenL. Rock Financial/Mortgage Banker 1,500 12/01/2003 Clarkston MI 48348
Schwartz, Bruce A. Quicken Loans/Mortgage Banker 1,500 01/08/2004 Franklin MI 48025
Stapp, Brian D Quicken Loans/VP Marketing 1,500 03/02/2004 Northville MI 48167
Vitale, Angelo Vincent Quicken Loans Inc./Attorney 1,500 12/01/2003 Livonia MI 48152
Walters, Robert Dean Jr. Quicken Loans/Secondary Marketing 1,500 12/19/2003 Northville MI 48167
Eisenshtadt, Jeffrey K Title Source Inc./President 1,000 01/08/2004 Bloomfield Hills MI 48302
Hall, Jason Patrick Quicken Loans Inc./Mortgage Banker 500 12/01/2003 Birmingham MI 48009
Perry, Jeffrey F Quicken Loans/Sales Director 500 03/02/2004 West Bloomfield MI 48323
Heitchue, Kenneth J. Quicken Loans Inc./Mortgage Banker 300 12/01/2003 Rochester Hills MI 48307
Hughes, Brian Douglas Title Source Inc./Vice President 300 12/01/2003 Farmington Hills MI 48331
Pack, Daniel L Quicken Loans/Facilities Manager 300 05/13/2004 Rose Township MI 48442
King, Eric D. Quicken Loans Inc./Banker 250 12/01/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48322
Mazey, Mark William Quicken Loans/Sales Director 250 01/08/2004 Farmington Hills MI 48331



Political Candidates Receiving Contributions from
QUICKEN LOANS INC PAC

To a Spreadsheet or Other File Type
Candidate Name Office Party State $ Dollar Amount
BENNETT, ROBERT F SENATE Republican UT 1,000
KNOLLENBERG, JOSEPH K HOUSE Republican MI 4,000
MARTINEZ, MEL SENATE Republican FL 2,000
MCCOTTER, THADDEUS G MR. HOUSE Republican MI 1,250
MILLER, CANDICE S HOUSE Republican MI 1,000
SCHWARZ, JOHN HOUSE Republican MI 500
STABENOW, DEBBIE SENATE Democrat MI 1,000

I found a list of politicians that the Quicken Loans Inc PAC donated to (as well as the individuals at Quicken that donated) at campaignmoney.com/committee.asp?committeeID=C00388827&cycle=04. I've posted a copy below as well. If this money that was contributed was meant to be paid to employees in the form of overtime, would that constitute illegal campaign contributions? If so, maybe we should contact the politicians and request they return the funds as well as publicly distance themselves from the company.

Top 100 Donations/Contributions of at least $200 to
QUICKEN LOANS INC PAC
Contributor Name Occupation $ Dollar Amount Date City State ZipCode
Gilbert, Daniel Bruce Quicken Loans Inc./Chairman 5,000 12/04/2003 Franklin MI 48025
Gilbert, Jennifer Lynn N/A/Homemaker 5,000 12/04/2003 Franklin MI 48025
Grosfeld, James self employed/Investor 5,000 01/08/2004 Bloomfield Hills MI 48304
Grosfeld, Nancy none/homemaker 5,000 01/08/2004 Bloomfield Hills MI 48304
Katzman, David Camelot Ventures/Manager 5,000 12/01/2003 Franklin MI 48025
Katzman, Nancy N/A 5,000 12/01/2003 Franklin MI 48025
Allio, Mark S. Rock Bank/CEO/President 2,500 12/01/2003 Akron OH 44333
Cicurel, Steven David Camelot Ventures/analyst 2,500 12/19/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48323
Emerson, William C. Quicken Loans Inc./CEO 2,500 12/01/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48322
Gilbert, Gary Lawrence Camelot Pictures/Film Producer 2,500 01/14/2004 New York NY 10013
Kramer, Robert A. Boomerang Advisors Inc./Consultant 2,500 12/01/2003 Rye NY 10580
McInnis, Patrick K. Quicken Loans/Mortgage Banker 2,500 12/19/2003 Commerce Township MI 48382
Pyett, Nicholas J. Camelot Ventures/Manager 2,500 12/01/2003 Novi MI 48375
Carroll, David Quicken Loans/Mortgage Banking Exec 1,500 12/19/2003 Beverly Hills MI 48025
Chyette, Richard Quicken Loans/Attorney 1,500 12/19/2003 Birmingham MI 49009
Cohen, Jeffrey Rock Construction/Real Estate Devel 1,500 12/19/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48323
Farner, Jay D. Quicken Loans/VP Sales 1,500 12/19/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48324
Hall, David John Rock Financial/mortgage banker 1,500 01/08/2004 Birmingham MI 48009
Lunsford, John Todd Quicken Loans Inc./CIO 1,500 12/01/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48324
Lyon, Michael Lee Quicken Loans Inc./Director of Mort 1,500 12/01/2003 Sterling Heights MI 48314
Mandell, Richard J. Quicken Loans/Director of Branch Sa 1,500 12/19/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48323
Piazza, StephenL. Rock Financial/Mortgage Banker 1,500 12/01/2003 Clarkston MI 48348
Schwartz, Bruce A. Quicken Loans/Mortgage Banker 1,500 01/08/2004 Franklin MI 48025
Stapp, Brian D Quicken Loans/VP Marketing 1,500 03/02/2004 Northville MI 48167
Vitale, Angelo Vincent Quicken Loans Inc./Attorney 1,500 12/01/2003 Livonia MI 48152
Walters, Robert Dean Jr. Quicken Loans/Secondary Marketing 1,500 12/19/2003 Northville MI 48167
Eisenshtadt, Jeffrey K Title Source Inc./President 1,000 01/08/2004 Bloomfield Hills MI 48302
Hall, Jason Patrick Quicken Loans Inc./Mortgage Banker 500 12/01/2003 Birmingham MI 48009
Perry, Jeffrey F Quicken Loans/Sales Director 500 03/02/2004 West Bloomfield MI 48323
Heitchue, Kenneth J. Quicken Loans Inc./Mortgage Banker 300 12/01/2003 Rochester Hills MI 48307
Hughes, Brian Douglas Title Source Inc./Vice President 300 12/01/2003 Farmington Hills MI 48331
Pack, Daniel L Quicken Loans/Facilities Manager 300 05/13/2004 Rose Township MI 48442
King, Eric D. Quicken Loans Inc./Banker 250 12/01/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48322
Mazey, Mark William Quicken Loans/Sales Director 250 01/08/2004 Farmington Hills MI 48331



Political Candidates Receiving Contributions from
QUICKEN LOANS INC PAC

To a Spreadsheet or Other File Type
Candidate Name Office Party State $ Dollar Amount
BENNETT, ROBERT F SENATE Republican UT 1,000
KNOLLENBERG, JOSEPH K HOUSE Republican MI 4,000
MARTINEZ, MEL SENATE Republican FL 2,000
MCCOTTER, THADDEUS G MR. HOUSE Republican MI 1,250
MILLER, CANDICE S HOUSE Republican MI 1,000
SCHWARZ, JOHN HOUSE Republican MI 500
STABENOW, DEBBIE SENATE Democrat MI 1,000

I found a list of politicians that the Quicken Loans Inc PAC donated to (as well as the individuals at Quicken that donated) at campaignmoney.com/committee.asp?committeeID=C00388827&cycle=04. I've posted a copy below as well. If this money that was contributed was meant to be paid to employees in the form of overtime, would that constitute illegal campaign contributions? If so, maybe we should contact the politicians and request they return the funds as well as publicly distance themselves from the company.

Top 100 Donations/Contributions of at least $200 to
QUICKEN LOANS INC PAC
Contributor Name Occupation $ Dollar Amount Date City State ZipCode
Gilbert, Daniel Bruce Quicken Loans Inc./Chairman 5,000 12/04/2003 Franklin MI 48025
Gilbert, Jennifer Lynn N/A/Homemaker 5,000 12/04/2003 Franklin MI 48025
Grosfeld, James self employed/Investor 5,000 01/08/2004 Bloomfield Hills MI 48304
Grosfeld, Nancy none/homemaker 5,000 01/08/2004 Bloomfield Hills MI 48304
Katzman, David Camelot Ventures/Manager 5,000 12/01/2003 Franklin MI 48025
Katzman, Nancy N/A 5,000 12/01/2003 Franklin MI 48025
Allio, Mark S. Rock Bank/CEO/President 2,500 12/01/2003 Akron OH 44333
Cicurel, Steven David Camelot Ventures/analyst 2,500 12/19/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48323
Emerson, William C. Quicken Loans Inc./CEO 2,500 12/01/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48322
Gilbert, Gary Lawrence Camelot Pictures/Film Producer 2,500 01/14/2004 New York NY 10013
Kramer, Robert A. Boomerang Advisors Inc./Consultant 2,500 12/01/2003 Rye NY 10580
McInnis, Patrick K. Quicken Loans/Mortgage Banker 2,500 12/19/2003 Commerce Township MI 48382
Pyett, Nicholas J. Camelot Ventures/Manager 2,500 12/01/2003 Novi MI 48375
Carroll, David Quicken Loans/Mortgage Banking Exec 1,500 12/19/2003 Beverly Hills MI 48025
Chyette, Richard Quicken Loans/Attorney 1,500 12/19/2003 Birmingham MI 49009
Cohen, Jeffrey Rock Construction/Real Estate Devel 1,500 12/19/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48323
Farner, Jay D. Quicken Loans/VP Sales 1,500 12/19/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48324
Hall, David John Rock Financial/mortgage banker 1,500 01/08/2004 Birmingham MI 48009
Lunsford, John Todd Quicken Loans Inc./CIO 1,500 12/01/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48324
Lyon, Michael Lee Quicken Loans Inc./Director of Mort 1,500 12/01/2003 Sterling Heights MI 48314
Mandell, Richard J. Quicken Loans/Director of Branch Sa 1,500 12/19/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48323
Piazza, StephenL. Rock Financial/Mortgage Banker 1,500 12/01/2003 Clarkston MI 48348
Schwartz, Bruce A. Quicken Loans/Mortgage Banker 1,500 01/08/2004 Franklin MI 48025
Stapp, Brian D Quicken Loans/VP Marketing 1,500 03/02/2004 Northville MI 48167
Vitale, Angelo Vincent Quicken Loans Inc./Attorney 1,500 12/01/2003 Livonia MI 48152
Walters, Robert Dean Jr. Quicken Loans/Secondary Marketing 1,500 12/19/2003 Northville MI 48167
Eisenshtadt, Jeffrey K Title Source Inc./President 1,000 01/08/2004 Bloomfield Hills MI 48302
Hall, Jason Patrick Quicken Loans Inc./Mortgage Banker 500 12/01/2003 Birmingham MI 48009
Perry, Jeffrey F Quicken Loans/Sales Director 500 03/02/2004 West Bloomfield MI 48323
Heitchue, Kenneth J. Quicken Loans Inc./Mortgage Banker 300 12/01/2003 Rochester Hills MI 48307
Hughes, Brian Douglas Title Source Inc./Vice President 300 12/01/2003 Farmington Hills MI 48331
Pack, Daniel L Quicken Loans/Facilities Manager 300 05/13/2004 Rose Township MI 48442
King, Eric D. Quicken Loans Inc./Banker 250 12/01/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48322
Mazey, Mark William Quicken Loans/Sales Director 250 01/08/2004 Farmington Hills MI 48331



Political Candidates Receiving Contributions from
QUICKEN LOANS INC PAC

To a Spreadsheet or Other File Type
Candidate Name Office Party State $ Dollar Amount
BENNETT, ROBERT F SENATE Republican UT 1,000
KNOLLENBERG, JOSEPH K HOUSE Republican MI 4,000
MARTINEZ, MEL SENATE Republican FL 2,000
MCCOTTER, THADDEUS G MR. HOUSE Republican MI 1,250
MILLER, CANDICE S HOUSE Republican MI 1,000
SCHWARZ, JOHN HOUSE Republican MI 500
STABENOW, DEBBIE SENATE Democrat MI 1,000

I found a list of politicians that the Quicken Loans Inc PAC donated to (as well as the individuals at Quicken that donated) at campaignmoney.com/committee.asp?committeeID=C00388827&cycle=04. I've posted a copy below as well. If this money that was contributed was meant to be paid to employees in the form of overtime, would that constitute illegal campaign contributions? If so, maybe we should contact the politicians and request they return the funds as well as publicly distance themselves from the company.

Top 100 Donations/Contributions of at least $200 to
QUICKEN LOANS INC PAC
Contributor Name Occupation $ Dollar Amount Date City State ZipCode
Gilbert, Daniel Bruce Quicken Loans Inc./Chairman 5,000 12/04/2003 Franklin MI 48025
Gilbert, Jennifer Lynn N/A/Homemaker 5,000 12/04/2003 Franklin MI 48025
Grosfeld, James self employed/Investor 5,000 01/08/2004 Bloomfield Hills MI 48304
Grosfeld, Nancy none/homemaker 5,000 01/08/2004 Bloomfield Hills MI 48304
Katzman, David Camelot Ventures/Manager 5,000 12/01/2003 Franklin MI 48025
Katzman, Nancy N/A 5,000 12/01/2003 Franklin MI 48025
Allio, Mark S. Rock Bank/CEO/President 2,500 12/01/2003 Akron OH 44333
Cicurel, Steven David Camelot Ventures/analyst 2,500 12/19/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48323
Emerson, William C. Quicken Loans Inc./CEO 2,500 12/01/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48322
Gilbert, Gary Lawrence Camelot Pictures/Film Producer 2,500 01/14/2004 New York NY 10013
Kramer, Robert A. Boomerang Advisors Inc./Consultant 2,500 12/01/2003 Rye NY 10580
McInnis, Patrick K. Quicken Loans/Mortgage Banker 2,500 12/19/2003 Commerce Township MI 48382
Pyett, Nicholas J. Camelot Ventures/Manager 2,500 12/01/2003 Novi MI 48375
Carroll, David Quicken Loans/Mortgage Banking Exec 1,500 12/19/2003 Beverly Hills MI 48025
Chyette, Richard Quicken Loans/Attorney 1,500 12/19/2003 Birmingham MI 49009
Cohen, Jeffrey Rock Construction/Real Estate Devel 1,500 12/19/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48323
Farner, Jay D. Quicken Loans/VP Sales 1,500 12/19/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48324
Hall, David John Rock Financial/mortgage banker 1,500 01/08/2004 Birmingham MI 48009
Lunsford, John Todd Quicken Loans Inc./CIO 1,500 12/01/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48324
Lyon, Michael Lee Quicken Loans Inc./Director of Mort 1,500 12/01/2003 Sterling Heights MI 48314
Mandell, Richard J. Quicken Loans/Director of Branch Sa 1,500 12/19/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48323
Piazza, StephenL. Rock Financial/Mortgage Banker 1,500 12/01/2003 Clarkston MI 48348
Schwartz, Bruce A. Quicken Loans/Mortgage Banker 1,500 01/08/2004 Franklin MI 48025
Stapp, Brian D Quicken Loans/VP Marketing 1,500 03/02/2004 Northville MI 48167
Vitale, Angelo Vincent Quicken Loans Inc./Attorney 1,500 12/01/2003 Livonia MI 48152
Walters, Robert Dean Jr. Quicken Loans/Secondary Marketing 1,500 12/19/2003 Northville MI 48167
Eisenshtadt, Jeffrey K Title Source Inc./President 1,000 01/08/2004 Bloomfield Hills MI 48302
Hall, Jason Patrick Quicken Loans Inc./Mortgage Banker 500 12/01/2003 Birmingham MI 48009
Perry, Jeffrey F Quicken Loans/Sales Director 500 03/02/2004 West Bloomfield MI 48323
Heitchue, Kenneth J. Quicken Loans Inc./Mortgage Banker 300 12/01/2003 Rochester Hills MI 48307
Hughes, Brian Douglas Title Source Inc./Vice President 300 12/01/2003 Farmington Hills MI 48331
Pack, Daniel L Quicken Loans/Facilities Manager 300 05/13/2004 Rose Township MI 48442
King, Eric D. Quicken Loans Inc./Banker 250 12/01/2003 West Bloomfield MI 48322
Mazey, Mark William Quicken Loans/Sales Director 250 01/08/2004 Farmington Hills MI 48331



Political Candidates Receiving Contributions from
QUICKEN LOANS INC PAC

To a Spreadsheet or Other File Type
Candidate Name Office Party State $ Dollar Amount
BENNETT, ROBERT F SENATE Republican UT 1,000
KNOLLENBERG, JOSEPH K HOUSE Republican MI 4,000
MARTINEZ, MEL SENATE Republican FL 2,000
MCCOTTER, THADDEUS G MR. HOUSE Republican MI 1,250
MILLER, CANDICE S HOUSE Republican MI 1,000
SCHWARZ, JOHN HOUSE Republican MI 500
STABENOW, DEBBIE SENATE Democrat MI 1,000

Malachi, I really enjoy your view of Quicken -- I think it is dead on target. I am eagerly awaiting the next 10 parts.

I hope to see you touch on the recruiting process and all the lies they sell you before coming to the company. If not, I may add my own account. :-)

He smokes (Weed) with his short friend Bruce Swartz during the lunch hours - when he comes back look at his eyes. They are all Danny's boy's, so go figuer about waht he's doing. Both are best friends with Gilbert. Most of RVP are firends or family of Danny. It's also the only way to get promoted with the company - UNFAIR.

Congrats to you on your freedom. Don't forget to join our class action lawsuit against these coke heads! Go to the website for NKA. It will be a small payback of what is owed to us when we win. Try for unemployment. If the unemployment offices keep getting hit with all these claims against these scumbags, maybe justice will actually be done.

It is done, you should have seen the look on the reporters face when he read the "opprotunity Letter"

He was also shocked to see that if you are put on "letter" you now only receive what was originally called aged leads now called targeted timing leads. This is what you get if you are on the chopping block. Leads that are 6 months to 2 years old. Potential clients have been harrassed, threatened and hard closed until the bridges have been burnt, or they have refinanced with other companies, or the funniest still is that many of these "garbage" leads are current past clients of quicken.

I am not out for revenge by any means, one of the best days of my adult life, next to my wedding day and the birth of my children, is the day that I was pulled into an office and told that i was being seperated from the company!!

It was like a 10 ton weight was lifted from my chest, i walked out of the building with a smile on my face. My wife was so happy we had a great celebration later that night.
I have taken a little time to just catch up with my kids and family before i start looking for employment.

The whole quicken experience was a nightmare from the get go. They have no regard for their employees or their families. I for one am happy to be able to smile again and spend time with the people who are most important to me. Their demands of 12-16 hours a day are absolutely outrageous.

I would rather flip burgers for $8.00 per hour and be happy than work in that n**i ghestapo hell whole. I will never put myself in the position of working for a sweatshop menatality company like that again.

Thanks for the life lessons Quicken Loans!! its been real, it been not so fun, thanks for firing me!

Have any of the former bankers on this site worked for Jay Sheinbaum? He is a newly appointed RVP and I heard this story. Supposely a senior banker of his had a death in his family, I think it was his sister. Jay went around the office and collected $2000 to help with burial costs for this bankers sister. He then fired the banker and kept the money. Now if this is true which needs to be substantiated, I will personally address this issue with the state of michigan's Attorney Generals office for illegal fundraising activities. If anyone can back up this story please write back.

I am just disgusted with the lack of human decency that this company portrays on a daily basis which is derived from these postings.

I am going to wait until the News runs their story than I will clip it and send it to a reporter that I know at the Wall Street Journal. I would think they would be interested in this since the WSJ is now owned by Rupert Murdoch.

You touched on just about everything that is going on. The biggest point that you made was 1000's of families would be better off. I worked with guys, some single with obligations, some married with obligations that worked 11-15 days after getting that BS letter, unable to look for legitimate employment, who get fired. The company makes sure they can't get unemployment in order to save "Do the right thing" Gilbert some money. I saw the personal side and that is why I am so disgusted. Will some lose their homes? Management does not care! I worked a shift that let me come in at noon a couple of days a week, so I was able to find legitimate employment. I quit on a Friday and started a job with a company who actually "Does the right things" on a Monday. I appreciate my new company so much more than I would because of my Slick Loans experience. Imagine working for a company where upper management did not need Cocaine to funtion. No bloated directors with baseball bats. A place where you don't have to divorce your wife to be successful.

All that being said, I look forward to your next installment in your series. Please don't forget to contact Eric in the Detroit News. You can find his info in other posts here.

Hi guys

If it is true that top managment reads this site than they might want to be aware that the Detroit News has been interviewing many ex employees over the last month concerning their "opportunity letters" subsequent firings, denial of unemployment benefits and the reduction of over 1000 high paying jobs at Quicken Loans. The article will be formulated around Quicken Loans move to downtown Detroit and how they are trying to blackmail the State of Michigan into giving them a multimillion dollar tax package to make the move.

Eric and Tom have slugging reports showing how up to 70% of mortgage bankers do not get paid on a regular basis and that Quicken Loans is basically a multi-level marketing machine.

What I learned in life is that people usually get what they deserve no more no less.
The bible even speaks of retribution. Jesus states that one who does harm to another usually receives back three times their just punishement.

However anyone can be redeemed for their sins. Dan Gilbert, you need to step to the plate and take care of your employees and thier families. Give a severence package of 6 months pay and health benefits. You can afford it.

"Do the right thing", "take the roast out of the oven", "We are the me". Live up to your own isms.

I still don't beleive these guys read this stuff. I need to see it to believe it.

Just a couple of thoughts:

1. Malachi, I would have much rather accepted option 2 than your proposed option 3 - it would represent more money in your pocket than the option 3 proposed. REASON? I think you totally undervalue the value of the benefit package after seperation. In most cases, that benefit package may exceed $1,000 or more per month. Under option 3, your $5,442 proposal after tax would be worth almost $0 two months after seperation if you had to secure equivalent benefits through a COBRA offering. Under option 2, the after-tax value of your seperation after 2 months would be worth far more with those same benefits.

I think my argument is somewhat pointless since neither option 2 or 3 were offered - again just a thought.


2. I think your assessment of billionaires is off..... I don't believe someone like Warren Buffett or Bill Gates has in your words, "quite the coin collection, or shake hands with the devil himself." These two individuals represent what true multi-billionaires are........ Of the 2, one could argue Gates sort of used IBM to get the O/S package up and running (even though some would say he copied the Apple O/S to make WINDOWS - a court didn't think so....). Other than that, they both have done much to make this world a better place through the accumulation of wealth that they are now giving to those in the world who need it.


Other than that - very interesting reading....

Just a couple of thoughts:

1. Malachi, I would have much rather accepted option 2 than your proposed option 3 - it would represent more money in your pocket than the option 3 proposed. REASON? I think you totally undervalue the value of the benefit package after seperation. In most cases, that benefit package may exceed $1,000 or more per month. Under option 3, your $5,442 proposal after tax would be worth almost $0 two months after seperation if you had to secure equivalent benefits through a COBRA offering. Under option 2, the after-tax value of your seperation after 2 months would be worth far more with those same benefits.

I think my argument is somewhat pointless since neither option 2 or 3 were offered - again just a thought.


2. I think your assessment of billionaires is off..... I don't believe someone like Warren Buffett or Bill Gates has in your words, "quite the coin collection, or shake hands with the devil himself." These two individuals represent what true multi-billionaires are........ Of the 2, one could argue Gates sort of used IBM to get the O/S package up and running (even though some would say he copied the Apple O/S to make WINDOWS - a court didn't think so....). Other than that, they both have done much to make this world a better place through the accumulation of wealth that they are now giving to those in the world who need it.


Other than that - very interesting reading....

Just a couple of thoughts:

1. Malachi, I would have much rather accepted option 2 than your proposed option 3 - it would represent more money in your pocket than the option 3 proposed. REASON? I think you totally undervalue the value of the benefit package after seperation. In most cases, that benefit package may exceed $1,000 or more per month. Under option 3, your $5,442 proposal after tax would be worth almost $0 two months after seperation if you had to secure equivalent benefits through a COBRA offering. Under option 2, the after-tax value of your seperation after 2 months would be worth far more with those same benefits.

I think my argument is somewhat pointless since neither option 2 or 3 were offered - again just a thought.


2. I think your assessment of billionaires is off..... I don't believe someone like Warren Buffett or Bill Gates has in your words, "quite the coin collection, or shake hands with the devil himself." These two individuals represent what true multi-billionaires are........ Of the 2, one could argue Gates sort of used IBM to get the O/S package up and running (even though some would say he copied the Apple O/S to make WINDOWS - a court didn't think so....). Other than that, they both have done much to make this world a better place through the accumulation of wealth that they are now giving to those in the world who need it.


Other than that - very interesting reading....

They have already had their high price ATTY try to obtain IP addresses from Rip Off's Corp office. Due to FREEDOM OF SPEECH, Rip Off refuses to give up the info. From also what I hear is that the managers read this site, while praying that their names don't come up. Quicken Loans has a full department that watches everyone e-mails, along with the fact of spying on this site - they send the report to Dan. They just started having their computers geeks at the company WATCH the website daily. SO YES THEY READ THIS SITE. I also know of someone that was in court over the site - they tried to sue them over FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

PS I can't wait for Part 2 of 11 from Malachai -great work, I hope people understand that we're not a looser who was fired from the company. In one year I've made as much as 90k, I was a top dog (or as they put it) A CLOSER. They don't care, when you need time off or you may have a bad month - THEY DON'T CARE - "GET BACK ON THE PHONES AND BRING ME ANOTHER DEAL"

I believe they are 2 chicken to reply back to us. We're still waiting Danny, Billy, Gay Jay, and Pat

They have already had their high price ATTY try to obtain IP addresses from Rip Off's Corp office. Due to FREEDOM OF SPEECH, Rip Off refuses to give up the info. From also what I hear is that the managers read this site, while praying that their names don't come up. Quicken Loans has a full department that watches everyone e-mails, along with the fact of spying on this site - they send the report to Dan. They just started having their computers geeks at the company WATCH the website daily. SO YES THEY READ THIS SITE. I also know of someone that was in court over the site - they tried to sue them over FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

PS I can't wait for Part 2 of 11 from Malachai -great work, I hope people understand that we're not a looser who was fired from the company. In one year I've made as much as 90k, I was a top dog (or as they put it) A CLOSER. They don't care, when you need time off or you may have a bad month - THEY DON'T CARE - "GET BACK ON THE PHONES AND BRING ME ANOTHER DEAL"

I believe they are 2 chicken to reply back to us. We're still waiting Danny, Billy, Gay Jay, and Pat

They have already had their high price ATTY try to obtain IP addresses from Rip Off's Corp office. Due to FREEDOM OF SPEECH, Rip Off refuses to give up the info. From also what I hear is that the managers read this site, while praying that their names don't come up. Quicken Loans has a full department that watches everyone e-mails, along with the fact of spying on this site - they send the report to Dan. They just started having their computers geeks at the company WATCH the website daily. SO YES THEY READ THIS SITE. I also know of someone that was in court over the site - they tried to sue them over FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

PS I can't wait for Part 2 of 11 from Malachai -great work, I hope people understand that we're not a looser who was fired from the company. In one year I've made as much as 90k, I was a top dog (or as they put it) A CLOSER. They don't care, when you need time off or you may have a bad month - THEY DON'T CARE - "GET BACK ON THE PHONES AND BRING ME ANOTHER DEAL"

I believe they are 2 chicken to reply back to us. We're still waiting Danny, Billy, Gay Jay, and Pat

They have already had their high price ATTY try to obtain IP addresses from Rip Off's Corp office. Due to FREEDOM OF SPEECH, Rip Off refuses to give up the info. From also what I hear is that the managers read this site, while praying that their names don't come up. Quicken Loans has a full department that watches everyone e-mails, along with the fact of spying on this site - they send the report to Dan. They just started having their computers geeks at the company WATCH the website daily. SO YES THEY READ THIS SITE. I also know of someone that was in court over the site - they tried to sue them over FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

PS I can't wait for Part 2 of 11 from Malachai -great work, I hope people understand that we're not a looser who was fired from the company. In one year I've made as much as 90k, I was a top dog (or as they put it) A CLOSER. They don't care, when you need time off or you may have a bad month - THEY DON'T CARE - "GET BACK ON THE PHONES AND BRING ME ANOTHER DEAL"

I believe they are 2 chicken to reply back to us. We're still waiting Danny, Billy, Gay Jay, and Pat

Think about this, if Dan and the gang kept up to date on the postings on this site then they would be wasting "time". Remember "time" is a wasting asset and why would they waste their valuable time reading these postings.

However if they are reading these postings than they are concerned about what people have to say. Either they are worried about their image or they know their business practices are shady. And if they are reading this posting right now then we have their attention. And if I do have their attention then l will speak directly to the "big fellas".

Come on guys, you have enough money. You own basketball teams, wall poster companies, Eprize and all this other crap that generates profits for you.

All we were looking for was a home so we could make an honest living so we could support our families. We all worked very hard for you. 12 hours a day plus. We generated hundreds of thousands of dollars in gross revenue for you. All we wanted was a good paying job and the opportunity to enjoy our families.

It would be interesting to hear back from any of you. This forum is great. You can use a fake name so no one will know its Dan, Bill, Patrick or Jay F.

Come on guys let's hear from you. Start the name calling by telling us were vic tim or some other one of your stupid names.

By the way I generated over $500,000 of revenue for you over the last 12 months. I made $70,000, so I was not one of these loser non performers.

We all look forward in hearing from you.

This posting is the best one so far which clearly shows how we all feel about this company. I've worked as a WEB BANKER in Livonia for years, simply wanting to "Do the right thing" but the higher ups demands of those HOURS was way too much for any human being who has a family to deal with. Danny also had his ATTY's bother me after leaving the company. I HATE HIM AND THE d**n COMPANY! I hope HE has his day of JUDGEMENT, because I can't see him (or JAY,PAT or BILL) have any kind of love for GOD. They have more then enough money to live on, and all we want is to be paid for the hours that we worked overtime (NKA.com). THEY ALL READ THIS WEB SITE - so Danny, Billy, Big mouth Jay & Pat -
I want you CLOWNS to know that you can keep beating people out of their $, but it comes back to get you. GOD has something in store for you BOZO's. Better get down on your knees tonight and pray that you don't meet the DEVIL because he coming.

One of these day's Quicken Loans is going to make CNN after some nut bag walks thru the door and sparys the place (I know of a few who was close), you can't keep DOING this to people DANNY, with all the smart people who work for you, they should have told you that your dumb a*s can't do this stuff to people - they have FAMILY to support, bills, pressure, stress from the world - it only takes one person to let your a*s know.

TELL DANNY TO STOP, GET GOD IN HIS LIFE AND "DO THE RIGHT THING"

Very well thought out email. I look forward to your future commentary. What can you really say about Quicken Loans? They are what they are. Remember Bill Emerson's "Slick Loans" campaign. Well Quicken is the true "Slick Loans" company.

All of the "Directors of Mortgage Banking" are a bunch of "Stepford Wives" Robotic, unintellingent pieces of smelly dog pooh.

The RVP's are a waste of office space, running around trying to look serious about their positions.

I just sit and laugh now about my experience at "Slick Loans".