Quicken Loans ripoff don't pay the $500 deposit become very unfriendly when you withdraw from their application Livonia Michigan

Hi. I'm very sorry to hear about the recent experience that you've had with us. How can I help? My name is Nick, and I'd like to get in touch with you and look into your recent experience further. Send me an email at nicholasnavetta@quickenloans.com with any additional details and I'll make sure to look into it ASAP with our Client Relations Team.

Give me your email address and I will email you the Deposit Agreement. Then I want you to admit to what it really states so people can see. I believe you will still stand by what Quicken had drilled in your head because I know you really can't say anything bad about your company. I'm really not complaining about a upfront deposit. I knew what I was getting into when I signed the Deposit Agreement. I'm just upset about how your agents handled my account. I'm even more upset that I had to go through the BBB to get my refund. I'm writing this so that others, who may end up in the same situation I was in, know what to do.

Tri- I'm not trying to bully you. I stated many times based on your story that Quicken didn't handle your situation in the best manner. They obviously didn't get a survey because you never closed the loan.

Tri- What was your loan number? I will actually be able to investigate how your documents actually read (that is the real issue isn't it?). You say that the documents never stated that you would not get your deposit back if you backed out of the loan. If you are right then I will surely give you an apology and let everyone know exactly what they say.

Contrary to some peoples belief, I have never lied, or stretched the truth, on this site. I shoot straight and will give you your dues if you are telling the truth. If you have something to hide or don't want to share your loan number with me then what exact month/year did all of this happen? Or what is your full first and last name? Any one of these will help us out.

Sorry, but I have to respond to Jay. Even though I don't have the same knowledge you have on this mortgage game, I am not one to sit down and let a big company talk me down. Even though I agreed to give Quicken a deposit, I know enough to read the agreement before I sign anything. I can care less if Quicken used some of that deposit for the appraisal and such, but I was expecting to get the remaining deposit back. When one person tells me I can get the deposit back and another person in the same company tells me I will not get it back, there is something fishy going on. Like I said, I'm not one to let a bully step all over me.

The Quicken agents that I dealt with were quick to be upset that I decided to go with another lender. Kept telling all kind of bull to scare me. I didn't know that getting a mortgage loan was like buying a car. It sure seems like I was dealing with a car saleman though.

Another point...if Quicken have so many closings per month, then why are they so worried about losing a few account like mine??? Like you said Jay, how much of a commission you get depends on the survey at the closing. If that was true, then these Quicken agents that were handling my account should not be getting a cent of commission.

Jay, this is getting really old. Most people who read this will think twice about dealing with Quicken Loans, no matter how you try to dress it up!!!!

O.K., Now we are getting somewhere.

Patrick- I do not impale my clients with low loan amounts. Our charge for any first mortgage is $575 regardless of the loan amount. Also, I am paid a salary with small amounts of commission so waxing my client with a ton of fees doesn't help me get paid. Some of the commission is based on a survey my client gets at the closing table on how my service was. This is not a system that makes it beneficial to slam your clients with thousands of dollars in additional costs.

People with money are different than people with wealth, and yes they are typically more financial savvy than thoes with less money. People with wealth are the people who take an interest only loan and utilize it the way it was meant to be used. I have been in this business for a long time and I have realized that most people with wealth are not afraid of debt and have a goal of making more wealth while people with little wealth have a goal of paying off their debt. If you are borrowing money at 6.5% and funding your Roth IRA at 10.5% you will build wealth and that is smart if you are savvy enough. Now I know that people will take whatever program out there so they can afford their dream house and this is where you have to make some decisions

Tom-California realized they were out-of-line with their law. Yes we do have attorneys but to have a law that prevents you from charging interest on money lent with a signed agreement from both parties is plain silly. California was the only state that had that law and they have agreed that it is not a good law. They have officially changed it. This is not skimming off of the top, it is charging interest that is due on money lent.

Ameriquest is in a whole different league than everyone (2 year ARM at 9% with a 3 year prepayment penalty of $8,000). They were changing fees, rates, and prepayment penalties. They lost a lawsuit of $300 million for their business practices and no one is trying to jump in their shoes and step up in their place. I understand if you have a problem with the deposit but to put someone in the same boat as Ameriquest is not funny.

We will not raise our deposit and we have no prepayment penalties. We don't even offer a prepayment penalty on any of our 100 products, that includes option arms.

I do appreciate that you realize we do not falsify appraisals so people will be upside down in their home. That is not a situation to put someone in.

In one sentence you say this is not about me but quicken's deposit policy, then in the next you say I am a clip-on tie, unregulated, green, etc.. You have never met me, nor have you set foot in one of our buildings so I'm not sure how you received this information.

I have to agree with both Steve and Tom on certain aspects. There are a lot of scarry programs out there to make houses affordable. We, as bankers, have an obligation to the client to reach their goals. If they tell us they do want the lowest rate, payment, and costs, then we need to try to give them that. However, we all agree that educating the client is the most important thing. Sure an option arm with the 1% payment may be all the client hears up front but we do have an obligation to make sure they understand the risks involved. Typically I sell off of option arms because there are very few extreme circumstances where it is actually beneficial to the client. Steve is entirely right in that it ultimately is the homeowners responsibility. We can educate all we want but it truly is their decision.

Tom-I didn't know you were so green as a broker but I can certainly respect your past career. You seem to have a lot of experience in collecting and selling too. I can tell that you are fixated on the back-end of the business. You will definitely make less mistakes as you go through the learning curve and your clients will appreciate that.

O.K., Now we are getting somewhere.

Patrick- I do not impale my clients with low loan amounts. Our charge for any first mortgage is $575 regardless of the loan amount. Also, I am paid a salary with small amounts of commission so waxing my client with a ton of fees doesn't help me get paid. Some of the commission is based on a survey my client gets at the closing table on how my service was. This is not a system that makes it beneficial to slam your clients with thousands of dollars in additional costs.

People with money are different than people with wealth, and yes they are typically more financial savvy than thoes with less money. People with wealth are the people who take an interest only loan and utilize it the way it was meant to be used. I have been in this business for a long time and I have realized that most people with wealth are not afraid of debt and have a goal of making more wealth while people with little wealth have a goal of paying off their debt. If you are borrowing money at 6.5% and funding your Roth IRA at 10.5% you will build wealth and that is smart if you are savvy enough. Now I know that people will take whatever program out there so they can afford their dream house and this is where you have to make some decisions

Tom-California realized they were out-of-line with their law. Yes we do have attorneys but to have a law that prevents you from charging interest on money lent with a signed agreement from both parties is plain silly. California was the only state that had that law and they have agreed that it is not a good law. They have officially changed it. This is not skimming off of the top, it is charging interest that is due on money lent.

Ameriquest is in a whole different league than everyone (2 year ARM at 9% with a 3 year prepayment penalty of $8,000). They were changing fees, rates, and prepayment penalties. They lost a lawsuit of $300 million for their business practices and no one is trying to jump in their shoes and step up in their place. I understand if you have a problem with the deposit but to put someone in the same boat as Ameriquest is not funny.

We will not raise our deposit and we have no prepayment penalties. We don't even offer a prepayment penalty on any of our 100 products, that includes option arms.

I do appreciate that you realize we do not falsify appraisals so people will be upside down in their home. That is not a situation to put someone in.

In one sentence you say this is not about me but quicken's deposit policy, then in the next you say I am a clip-on tie, unregulated, green, etc.. You have never met me, nor have you set foot in one of our buildings so I'm not sure how you received this information.

I have to agree with both Steve and Tom on certain aspects. There are a lot of scarry programs out there to make houses affordable. We, as bankers, have an obligation to the client to reach their goals. If they tell us they do want the lowest rate, payment, and costs, then we need to try to give them that. However, we all agree that educating the client is the most important thing. Sure an option arm with the 1% payment may be all the client hears up front but we do have an obligation to make sure they understand the risks involved. Typically I sell off of option arms because there are very few extreme circumstances where it is actually beneficial to the client. Steve is entirely right in that it ultimately is the homeowners responsibility. We can educate all we want but it truly is their decision.

Tom-I didn't know you were so green as a broker but I can certainly respect your past career. You seem to have a lot of experience in collecting and selling too. I can tell that you are fixated on the back-end of the business. You will definitely make less mistakes as you go through the learning curve and your clients will appreciate that.

O.K., Now we are getting somewhere.

Patrick- I do not impale my clients with low loan amounts. Our charge for any first mortgage is $575 regardless of the loan amount. Also, I am paid a salary with small amounts of commission so waxing my client with a ton of fees doesn't help me get paid. Some of the commission is based on a survey my client gets at the closing table on how my service was. This is not a system that makes it beneficial to slam your clients with thousands of dollars in additional costs.

People with money are different than people with wealth, and yes they are typically more financial savvy than thoes with less money. People with wealth are the people who take an interest only loan and utilize it the way it was meant to be used. I have been in this business for a long time and I have realized that most people with wealth are not afraid of debt and have a goal of making more wealth while people with little wealth have a goal of paying off their debt. If you are borrowing money at 6.5% and funding your Roth IRA at 10.5% you will build wealth and that is smart if you are savvy enough. Now I know that people will take whatever program out there so they can afford their dream house and this is where you have to make some decisions

Tom-California realized they were out-of-line with their law. Yes we do have attorneys but to have a law that prevents you from charging interest on money lent with a signed agreement from both parties is plain silly. California was the only state that had that law and they have agreed that it is not a good law. They have officially changed it. This is not skimming off of the top, it is charging interest that is due on money lent.

Ameriquest is in a whole different league than everyone (2 year ARM at 9% with a 3 year prepayment penalty of $8,000). They were changing fees, rates, and prepayment penalties. They lost a lawsuit of $300 million for their business practices and no one is trying to jump in their shoes and step up in their place. I understand if you have a problem with the deposit but to put someone in the same boat as Ameriquest is not funny.

We will not raise our deposit and we have no prepayment penalties. We don't even offer a prepayment penalty on any of our 100 products, that includes option arms.

I do appreciate that you realize we do not falsify appraisals so people will be upside down in their home. That is not a situation to put someone in.

In one sentence you say this is not about me but quicken's deposit policy, then in the next you say I am a clip-on tie, unregulated, green, etc.. You have never met me, nor have you set foot in one of our buildings so I'm not sure how you received this information.

I have to agree with both Steve and Tom on certain aspects. There are a lot of scarry programs out there to make houses affordable. We, as bankers, have an obligation to the client to reach their goals. If they tell us they do want the lowest rate, payment, and costs, then we need to try to give them that. However, we all agree that educating the client is the most important thing. Sure an option arm with the 1% payment may be all the client hears up front but we do have an obligation to make sure they understand the risks involved. Typically I sell off of option arms because there are very few extreme circumstances where it is actually beneficial to the client. Steve is entirely right in that it ultimately is the homeowners responsibility. We can educate all we want but it truly is their decision.

Tom-I didn't know you were so green as a broker but I can certainly respect your past career. You seem to have a lot of experience in collecting and selling too. I can tell that you are fixated on the back-end of the business. You will definitely make less mistakes as you go through the learning curve and your clients will appreciate that.

O.K., Now we are getting somewhere.

Patrick- I do not impale my clients with low loan amounts. Our charge for any first mortgage is $575 regardless of the loan amount. Also, I am paid a salary with small amounts of commission so waxing my client with a ton of fees doesn't help me get paid. Some of the commission is based on a survey my client gets at the closing table on how my service was. This is not a system that makes it beneficial to slam your clients with thousands of dollars in additional costs.

People with money are different than people with wealth, and yes they are typically more financial savvy than thoes with less money. People with wealth are the people who take an interest only loan and utilize it the way it was meant to be used. I have been in this business for a long time and I have realized that most people with wealth are not afraid of debt and have a goal of making more wealth while people with little wealth have a goal of paying off their debt. If you are borrowing money at 6.5% and funding your Roth IRA at 10.5% you will build wealth and that is smart if you are savvy enough. Now I know that people will take whatever program out there so they can afford their dream house and this is where you have to make some decisions

Tom-California realized they were out-of-line with their law. Yes we do have attorneys but to have a law that prevents you from charging interest on money lent with a signed agreement from both parties is plain silly. California was the only state that had that law and they have agreed that it is not a good law. They have officially changed it. This is not skimming off of the top, it is charging interest that is due on money lent.

Ameriquest is in a whole different league than everyone (2 year ARM at 9% with a 3 year prepayment penalty of $8,000). They were changing fees, rates, and prepayment penalties. They lost a lawsuit of $300 million for their business practices and no one is trying to jump in their shoes and step up in their place. I understand if you have a problem with the deposit but to put someone in the same boat as Ameriquest is not funny.

We will not raise our deposit and we have no prepayment penalties. We don't even offer a prepayment penalty on any of our 100 products, that includes option arms.

I do appreciate that you realize we do not falsify appraisals so people will be upside down in their home. That is not a situation to put someone in.

In one sentence you say this is not about me but quicken's deposit policy, then in the next you say I am a clip-on tie, unregulated, green, etc.. You have never met me, nor have you set foot in one of our buildings so I'm not sure how you received this information.

I have to agree with both Steve and Tom on certain aspects. There are a lot of scarry programs out there to make houses affordable. We, as bankers, have an obligation to the client to reach their goals. If they tell us they do want the lowest rate, payment, and costs, then we need to try to give them that. However, we all agree that educating the client is the most important thing. Sure an option arm with the 1% payment may be all the client hears up front but we do have an obligation to make sure they understand the risks involved. Typically I sell off of option arms because there are very few extreme circumstances where it is actually beneficial to the client. Steve is entirely right in that it ultimately is the homeowners responsibility. We can educate all we want but it truly is their decision.

Tom-I didn't know you were so green as a broker but I can certainly respect your past career. You seem to have a lot of experience in collecting and selling too. I can tell that you are fixated on the back-end of the business. You will definitely make less mistakes as you go through the learning curve and your clients will appreciate that.

Hey, sorry, I think my comment was more about considering the financing opportunity as more than a means to an end with respect to the house. A house is an outstanding source of financial leverage if utilized properly and safely.

I like your description of the "Clip-on tie" guy. I hired a guy last year that got clipped in an early AMC purge. He had worked for them about 8 weeks, so he was still a virgin so to speak. The ONLY this this guy was taught were AMC programs, and very few of them at that. AMC has a very, very small array of products to offer.

I offer that example for Quicken, DiTech, AMC, Aegis, and even some regular banks that have "app takers", they have very little mortgage knowledge outside of what their employer feeds them. If, by chance or design, one of these "app takers" really likes this business and begins to explore the "world outside of Quicken" for employment and advancement, they will move on very quickly. They find they can make a lot more money, help a wider variety of homeowners, and gain much more industry knowledge.

I have read enough of your writing here and at B.O. to know that you are passionate about preventing people from getting screwed. And if it happens anyway, how to maybe right the wrong. A "Caped Crusader" for consumer rights.

Also, and I must be careful how I say this, you are not afraid to call "a spade a spade" when you see a not taking responsibility. You, like I have seen 1000's of credit reports, and while that doesn't tell you about the person's good heart, it definitely tells you about how they manage finances over the years.

So, while there are many, many, homeowners that have been screwed by shady lenders, there are FAR MORE that got themselves into a bad place by their own hand. Ya feelin' me on this one"

Hey, sorry, I think my comment was more about considering the financing opportunity as more than a means to an end with respect to the house. A house is an outstanding source of financial leverage if utilized properly and safely.

I like your description of the "Clip-on tie" guy. I hired a guy last year that got clipped in an early AMC purge. He had worked for them about 8 weeks, so he was still a virgin so to speak. The ONLY this this guy was taught were AMC programs, and very few of them at that. AMC has a very, very small array of products to offer.

I offer that example for Quicken, DiTech, AMC, Aegis, and even some regular banks that have "app takers", they have very little mortgage knowledge outside of what their employer feeds them. If, by chance or design, one of these "app takers" really likes this business and begins to explore the "world outside of Quicken" for employment and advancement, they will move on very quickly. They find they can make a lot more money, help a wider variety of homeowners, and gain much more industry knowledge.

I have read enough of your writing here and at B.O. to know that you are passionate about preventing people from getting screwed. And if it happens anyway, how to maybe right the wrong. A "Caped Crusader" for consumer rights.

Also, and I must be careful how I say this, you are not afraid to call "a spade a spade" when you see a not taking responsibility. You, like I have seen 1000's of credit reports, and while that doesn't tell you about the person's good heart, it definitely tells you about how they manage finances over the years.

So, while there are many, many, homeowners that have been screwed by shady lenders, there are FAR MORE that got themselves into a bad place by their own hand. Ya feelin' me on this one"

Hey, sorry, I think my comment was more about considering the financing opportunity as more than a means to an end with respect to the house. A house is an outstanding source of financial leverage if utilized properly and safely.

I like your description of the "Clip-on tie" guy. I hired a guy last year that got clipped in an early AMC purge. He had worked for them about 8 weeks, so he was still a virgin so to speak. The ONLY this this guy was taught were AMC programs, and very few of them at that. AMC has a very, very small array of products to offer.

I offer that example for Quicken, DiTech, AMC, Aegis, and even some regular banks that have "app takers", they have very little mortgage knowledge outside of what their employer feeds them. If, by chance or design, one of these "app takers" really likes this business and begins to explore the "world outside of Quicken" for employment and advancement, they will move on very quickly. They find they can make a lot more money, help a wider variety of homeowners, and gain much more industry knowledge.

I have read enough of your writing here and at B.O. to know that you are passionate about preventing people from getting screwed. And if it happens anyway, how to maybe right the wrong. A "Caped Crusader" for consumer rights.

Also, and I must be careful how I say this, you are not afraid to call "a spade a spade" when you see a not taking responsibility. You, like I have seen 1000's of credit reports, and while that doesn't tell you about the person's good heart, it definitely tells you about how they manage finances over the years.

So, while there are many, many, homeowners that have been screwed by shady lenders, there are FAR MORE that got themselves into a bad place by their own hand. Ya feelin' me on this one"

steve.

On a side note.

As you notice, I will always give you your due for the fact you have been in this industry a long time. I do so because i myself had a previous career, and understand that if you have been a mortgage agent for years, you must have picked up a lot in those years.

You keep hammering the point that 'i only have one year in the industry' -almost in a coddling way to suggest i previously flipped burgers or something.

I know you have known me from my beginnings on broker outpost. I take it you never read or have any idea what i did before this.

I was a career collections professional , starting on April 15 1988, and ending April 23 2005. Collections is ALWAYS about credit. I have done every type of collection you can think of. I have dealt with applications, creditors, credit criteria, credit bureaus, judges, lawyers, and of course the almighty DEBTORS for this very long time. I know the FCRA and the FDCPA inside and out. You can only imagine the changes i have been thru as the industry changed.

The mortgage industry is CREDIT.Its a major player, if not the biggest, but it just boils down to a spin on the same 'credit' industry.

I didnt just collect. I SOLD credit as well.
Rent to own furnature.
Auto lending
credit cards
student loans
cable/ internet.
blah blah blah ........on and on it goes.

After all these years, you might think i picked up a thing or 2 about how credit works, the players and their SCAMS .

SCAMS are not just about the debtors making excuses why they didnt pay their bill. My job was to sell MORALITY . Shame shame, you should pay your bill. Its the right thing to do..........

So, you might start to understand where my STRENGH is. Morality. Did you ever notice that is where i always keep my posts about? I play to my strengh.

In my years, I have seen the BS from the clients, the creditors, the credit bureaus, and the legislation , and the cracks in the system.

Every player potentially has room for abuse. Quite often, i have seen all parties take advantage of that.

You cant possibly understand the knowledge roaming around in my head in this arena , unless you yourself had lived this type of career. You get so many diff points of view depending on what creditor you work for. The more credit industries you work for, the better the knowedge becomes. Knowing someone who is a 'credit repair guy' or 'debt councellor' (TRYING TO SURPRESS LAUGHTER) isnt enough. It would take me VOLUMES of pages to actually convey all the information regarding credit, creditors, etc thats upstairs in my brain.

So , knowing that, if you didnt know that before, it may change this 'well you dont know whats going on' characterization you seem insistent on labelling me.

I dont know whats going on in terms of trends in the mortgage industry. I havent had much experience in 'option arms' and other things that matter in the actual sales of the thing. I give you, and all those with experience their dues -as is well documented in my posts.

Trying to suggest that somehow i DONT KNOW credit -or the scams creditors pull, and i cant smell it a mile away, far sooner than any mortgage agent or others without the vast experience i have in the industry, in NOT giving me my dues. I have earned it, in fact so much so i am rarely wrong in this regard.

This is why you always read my posts about these exact topics, because i am true to myself and where my experience is. I do appreciate the info you give me on actual mortgage programs etc.

I am a staight up guy, and I will give you your due.

So, here i am -faced with this Quicken guy with his clip-on tie, unregulated, green and brainwashed by his employers.... Do i need to even explain it any further? Yes yes, i understand he is defending his company and probably even BELIEVES what he is saying. But the post is not about HIM.Its about Quicken and this horse crap -'deposit' BS to lock down borrowers and take a cut if they back out. That type of scam puts a lot of bargaining power over to Quicken -and away from the borrower. NOT ACCEPTABLE.

I believe we are both on here because we HATE ripoffs. Some of my early posts are about collection agencies and other FDCPA issues. I was still in a form of collections when i got to RIPOFF REPORT.

Please give me my dues, as i have taken your word on your experience , and give you yours.

your friend Tom.

steve:

I see your point. In your scenerio, the borrower could very well have qualified for the 30 year but you showed them how to save all that money due to various factors.

I appreciate your experience and advise. My 'rule of thumb' may only be for me , but it still stands.

If your borrower could not afford a 30 year fixed and only an option arm or 'stated' with that huge a loan amount -betting on a sale of a property, i would be uneasy doing the deal. There could be a realistic chance they could flounder.

Your borrower didnt have those problems , and i see how you can give them diff options to meet their needs.

I recently put someone into a 1st position heloc -because it lowered their payment and got them the cash out for a down payment. They are going to sell their home and i will get their next purchase too. However, i am confident that if they change their mind, they qualify for a 30 year product on the house they still have.

Thank you!

Tom, there is no "rule of thumb" in the mortgage business. I know you have only been in this business for just a year now and probably somewhat limited experiences in Ohio and recently in Florida.

Every borrower is unique in some way. I try very diligently to find/create a mortgage that will accomplish the borrowers' short term goals as well as medium or long term goals. It can be done! I can relate tons of examples, but I'll give one that just closed back in early January. This will also address Patrick's comment about "no cost" loans are bad for the homeowner and only line the lender's pocket.

In Virginia, a US Navy Captain(0-6)and his wife had a ton of consumer debt they wanted to pay off. They also wanted to buy a new house for about $600K-ish in about 4 months. Scores were too low for any type of a debt consol 2nd. Scores were low only because of high balances, nothing derog.

Initially borrower's wife was totally fixated on lowest rate on a 30 year fixed. A $430K refi with "normal" costs of about $8,800 incl lender's fees, my fee, title, and VA mortgage taxes. Interest rate would be 6% at the time. Payment $2,150.00 OK?

I showed them by taking a much higher interest rate of 7.625% on a smaller loan amount of $423,000, he would save $7,000 in costs, (I gave him a huge broker credit with the 2.75% rebate) preserving that equity. Yes, his payment would be $538.00 higher at $2,687.00. No big deal, his cash flow was fine.

But because of how we timed the refi close and his goal of buying a new house in 4 months, he actually only made 3 house payments, saving almost $5,500.00 compared to what he originally wanted to do. I closed them on the new house with a 5/1 I/O ARM on May 15th. Why a 5/1 I/O ARM? At 66% LTV he feels safe and is retiring in 4 years and heading back to Oregon.

The lowest rate/payment was not the best solution here. Preserving equity with a "no cost", higher rate/payment was clearly the winner.

The point I am trying to make with this long, treatise is that "fitting" the mortgage to the borrower is frequently more beneficial to the borrower than "fitting" the borrower to a standard mortgage product.

This different way of thinking has earned me about 10 referrals from him, and actually earned me more money because I closed 2 loans with him instead of only the original refi.

Neg am loans have been around since the early eighties. Mainly an S & L or Thrift product, but neg am is not new to the option ARM product.

Patrick, as I stated in my earlier post, I absolutely do explain to borrowers all of the ramifications. They "get it" before we move forward. Sometimes when the light bulb over their heads lights up, they say Wow, thanks, that is not the loan for us! Other times, that is exactly what they want. They have a goal of some kind.

Maybe the goal IS a boat. Maybe it is pounding away at their 401K, IRA, 403b, etc. with the extra cash flow for the 5 years before they retire and move. Maybe they are putting a kid through college. Maybe they do not even care to tell me, but THAT is the loan they want.

If they are fully informed and I know they understand it, am I wrong to provide it to them? Are you trying to say that I know MORE than they do about their finances? I certainly no more about mortgages, and as a 50 year old American, I have a pretty good grasp of finances. My job is not to TELL them what they want, my job is to provide a product that will help them reach their goals, whatever those goals might be.

Forcing them into the "plain vanilla" 30 yr fixed fully amortizing loan is definitely not the right product for every borrower. By forcing that on them and forsaking other products (because I don't like them) is actually doing my borrower a disservice.

So, do you "detest" Countrywide, WaMu, and Wells as another of those bad "TV" lenders? I don't worry too much about these huge retail lenders. They are going to get their share, nothing to do about that. I focus on providing knowledgable advice and an excellent financing experience for my clients on this loan, the next one, and the next one.

Steve:

I know you have been around a long time and quite often a agree with what you say. But this time i am going to have to differ:

Neg am loans are great and all, and after its fully explained , if the homeowner still wants to do it, why not?

Let me tell you why not.

We are here to help homeowners, not just chuck them into a loan they think they want. If some guy wants a neg am , he ain 'saving' anything , and in fact will LOSE money vs paying 30yr fixed. We as brokers have a duty to see if they guy can actually afford to get that much deeper.

Does he have the equity to burn? Will he end up upside down? When the time comes to refi to a 30 year fixed, can he afford it with the new 'inflated' balance or will he be forced to take a new option arm , never ending the cycle of destruction.

A great rule of thumb is this:

does the guy qualify for a 30 year fixed too? If not , and the only way he can qualify is thru an option arm, i would not do the loan. It spells disaster. This real estate market no longer will bail him out with instant home appreciation.

As for quicken, lets get real. Both Ditech and Quicken are CHAFFING at the bit to barge into the vacated Ameriquest position as the biggest racketeering spot in home lending.

Steve, The Option ARM is only a few years old. The ARM product was developed by the NOW TV/online lenders (you're right) in the early eighties. When the 30 year fixed went up into the high teens! They developed these programs to "Leverage" their borrowers into loans to buy homes that they wouldn't qualify for using the vanilla 30 year fixed standard! Ergo, one of the reasons for the great "walk away" of the late eighties and early nineties! People paid barely any principal at all after 5-9 years and their homes weren't worth what they owed on them.....they walked away! This is going to happen first to the interest only loans of today. I have been a Mortgage professional for over 15 years. If you have read my posts, I really resent Quicken, Amerquest and the other TV/online lenders! Those people need to be educated by us.... the professionals. I have yet to have a person still insist on a interest loan, AFTER I fully explain what their payments will be AFTER the initial low fixed period! I'm glad you're not a Doctor! Your patients would tell you how to treat them. We professionals educate our borrrowers.

Patrick, you are way off base when you state the Option ARM loan is a creation of the "TV/Online" lenders. The option ARM (and variations) has been around since the very early 1980's.

For some borrowers, the Option ARM loan is a very appropriate loan product. I have sold several hundred over the years. NOW...I will agree that it has been overused, misused, and sold to the "wrong" type of borrower by lenders/brokers seeking to fatten up their own pockets.

With that being said, YOU MUST put a good chuck of the responsibility for taking said loan squarely on the shoulders of the borrower. It has been more than one time that I have refinanced a mortgage for a homeowner where they have specifically asked for the "1% loan" because their friends have it.

I explain it carefully to them. Trust me, when they make their decision they have seen amortization schedules, the potential increase in negative equity, prepayment penalty, variable monthly interest, the whole 9 yards.

They also see that on a $350,000 mortgage they could make a $1,125.00 payment instead of a $2,213.00 on a fixed rate mortgage. That is a $904.00 savings per month, $10,848.00 annually.

You know what they pick? They see Biff and Muffy up the street in the Yukon Denali towing their Eliminator boat behind it, and that $904.00 is now a boat payment.

How do I know this? I see their credit reports on a daily basis. I see American homeowners financing their lifestyles with their houses. I see homeowners who earn $80,000 per year with $60,000 in consumer debt that people refinance into their mortgages. I see people refinancing every 3-5 years. I've paid off $18,000 prepayment penalties because they had to refinance. Dude, in 11 years in the mortgage business I have seen it all!

I'll say it again. The decision to choose a loan that may not be appropriate, or they can not manage properly, IS THE HOMEOWNER'S REPOSNSIBILITY.

The Option ARM is not inherently a "bad" loan. How the homeowner chooses to manage it can be a "bad" decision.

As far as Quicken is concerned, I love to talk with potential borrowers that have talked to quicken 1st. I can sell around those monkeys all day loan and probably end up making more money for myself because they heard their rates and fees before I tell them mine.

patrick

a fan of Quicken as well i see........

I like your part about the borrower and their needs.

I find my borrowers are concerned about the right product (usually asking about a 30yr fixed or heloc for seconds) then interest rate on that 30 year, then the costs. Most dont mind paying the closing costs if they honestly want to stay in the loan for the long term.

I am certain Quicken will still use the 5% mandatory (if allowed by state law) prepay for 5 years or whatever to make sure once they get rooked into the high end retail rate -they get stuck there for years.

But I havent heard yet of Quicken using the old over-appraising trick to make sure they are upside down so there is no way they can refi out no matter what -like ameriquest did.

how can you honesty trust a company that demands an upfront 'deposit' is ridiculous.

p.s. -Me thinks Jay here is just brainwashed aka Ameriquest/ Primerica RAH RAH RAH crap by his bosses-until he gets out on his own and sees whats REALLY going on.

Ok Jay.

you work for and love Quicken loans. To each his own.

But 'failing' to obey the california law about interest.........for YEARS ..........like you dont have high priced attorneys to keep you in compliance.

This is no small 'boo boo' .... ooops......you got caught skimming off the top -theft really' and now have been ordered to pay back tens of millions of dollars over all those years.

Guess you are going to have to raise your 'deposit' to $1000 or $1500 to make up for all this back pay to clients huh? OR maybe charge em 7% on a 30 year fixed cause there fico is only 799? Nice yield.

Yeah, direct lenders dont have to disclose yield so they can rip you off for any interest rate they want -and tell you 'THATS THE BEST YOU CAN GET' -aka Ameriquest.

anyways,

This post is a RIPOFF REPORT for Quicken . Saying 'deposit' (non refundable apparently) and 'upfront fee' is the same BULLS**T statement. Making people pay money upfront is NOT NECESSARY AND I WOULD KNOW FOR A FACT. I DO THIS FOR A LIVING.

but it aint your fault. You were trained to sit behind a desk and the monkey who supervises you brainwashed you into thinking all this is kosher...

'do the right thing' .

you guys can take that slogan now as Ameriquest isnt going to need it anymore.

Go work on your own for a while and then see what you think of Ameriquest, Ditech, and Quicken etc.....

Read all the reports on Ameriquest and how their monkeys thought it was wonderful -until it got so bad they either got fired or left in pure shame for the scams they pulled on american homeowners.

This 'deposit' is a back door bullshit way to PUT PRESSURE ON YOU TO GO THRU WITH THE QUICKEN LOAN. Get real.

Regarding your comments about a low loan amount. This tells me that you don't do low loan amounts without "impaling" your customers with additional fees and points. Nationaly the loan amounts have been going down because of all the online/ TV "stupid" offers. People with money are not neccessarly smarter with money when buying or refinanceing their homes. Lawyers and doctors "think" they know, because they read Suze Orman's latest book or go to real estate seminars etc. More people with money are buying the interest only, no money down loans without published regard to the ripoff they represent!

A few years from now when the Congress of the US investigates the collapse of home lending in the United States, a few things will come out. The ARM "Option" payment plan, the interest only loan, and of course, the no money down loans..... will lead the way. Delveloped by the TV/online lenders to stay in business..... their sales tactics will be prosecuted heavily! The average borrower wants the lowest interest rate, lowest costs, and the best product.... usually in that order. What they usually get is the "Lender's" best product, (the one they make the most money on) "No" costs with extremely high interest rates.

They will be convinced by the lender that a no cost loan is the best.... for the borrower. In reality, the no cost loan is the best loan for the Lender, because it is at the highest rate! The borrower doesn't know what "hit" them! "If you put a thousand beggars out in the street, at the end of the day....they will have collected two thousand dollars." That doesn't make them "right!" Any more that Quicken loans closing 11,000 loans per month. With Quicken's tactics.... they should be closing 40,000 loans... and creating 10 times the customer complaints.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-loans24may24,1,3936693.story?coll=la-headlines-business

Here is the message:

Mortgage Interest Refunds Upheld
An appeals court says California can force Quicken Loans to pay millions to borrowers.
By E. Scott Reckard, Times Staff Writer
May 24, 2006


A federal appeals panel has ruled that California regulators can compel online mortgage specialist Quicken Loans Inc. to refund millions of dollars to consumers under a state law that banned charging interest until loans were officially recorded.

Quicken, the largest Internet-based direct mortgage lender to consumers, sued the state over refund demands in February 2003. It said Tuesday that it would not pay borrowers, arguing that the law ? which has since been changed ? required lenders to make "essentially an interest-free loan."

ADVERTISEMENT

The Livonia, Mich.-based lender said it would consider several options to challenge Monday's ruling by the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, including taking its case to the Supreme Court.

"I applaud California all day long for going after predatory lenders," Quicken founder and Chairman Dan Gilbert said in an interview. "But no consumer in the world is complaining about this, and we're not going to refund interest to borrowers who had the use of their funds."

California's Residential Mortgage Lending Act originally prevented lenders from charging interest until the day before a mortgage is officially logged by a county recorder, which may not happen for days or weeks after the loan is made.

In September 2003, the state Legislature amended the law so interest may begin accruing a day before loan proceeds are disbursed, bringing California in line with the other 49 states and federal law.

But the amendment was not retroactive, and the California Department of Corporations has continued to press Quicken to repay interest collected in violation of the old version of the law. The department said in filings related to the case that in a random audit of 12 Quicken loans, the interest overcharges averaged $2,168 per loan.

The agency doesn't know how many borrowers are affected or whether the $2,168 average is valid for all loans, because Quicken has declined to tally the loans as the department had asked, said Susie Wong, a spokeswoman for the department. The agency is seeking refunds for loans made as far back as Oct. 14, 1999.

Wong said the ruling "reaffirms the principle of state regulation of state-chartered lenders."

If the Department of Corporations prevails in the legal battle, she added, "we will require Quicken to follow the state law as it was on the books at the time."

Gilbert said the potential repayments totaled "in the millions [of dollars], not the tens of millions," but he added that "the money isn't the issue here."

He said the law was designed to prevent lenders from charging interest on loan funds that were tied up in escrow accounts. He said Quicken did not begin charging interest until the loan funds were paid out.

Gilbert said the company's options, in addition to a Supreme Court appeal, included lobbying Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and the Legislature to change the lending law retroactively.

He also raised the possibility of mounting fresh challenges in the courts, contending that compelling refunds would be "arbitrary and capricious."

Although Quicken complained that the law was fundamentally unfair, its lawsuit centered on the contention that federal lending laws override the state's Residential Mortgage Lending Act.

In a similar challenge to the Department of Corporations, Wells Fargo & Co. argued successfully in federal court that state lending laws didn't apply to it and other national banks, because their lending practices were regulated solely by the Treasury Department.

But the appeals court said that in the case of Quicken, which has no banking charter, the state laws prevailed.

Tom- If what you say is true then your business would be growing out-of-control. If you personally could compete with the type of pricing and overall service that we offer(for people who don't try to back out of a commitment)then you wouldn't even have time to sit on this site and bash an upstanding company like Quicken.

With that being said, you are licensed in Florida, yet you write an average loan amount of $120K. Something is starting to add up. Florida has a wide range of home pricing. Obviously we know that Florida is a state that has been booming for some time and most homes range from $200K-$1.5 million. You see, our friend here loses every client that has any money. We all know that people with wealth are more financially savvy that people on a lower socio-economic scale. I wonder why you live in a state with such mortgage opportunity, you have the best "wholesale" rates (laughable), yet your average loan is $120K.

Quicken Loans does not have an application fee.-See previous comment about how the deposit works.

Quicken was ordered by a judge in California to pay back x-millions of dollars in interest to clients. This is true. There is another instance where we have just the headline and not the whole story. When you close on a loan, the interest starts accruing immediately. This is what Quicken was charging their clients is interest per day after the close of the loan (that is just how interest works).

Apparently California had a law that stated lenders couldn't charge interest until the mortgage was recorded by the county/state. So when we look at this closer we find that it takes a few days to get the mortgage recorded after the close. A few days at ? interest per day for ? clients over ? years adds up to x-million dollars. Now we find that Quicken was in the right here too but obviously paid the money upon a court order. They are changing that law currently if they haven't already. Please people, investigate these alligations and you can see for yourself.

I am still looking for the part where I lied-

Tri

good for you getting your money back. Yes, i agree 100% if quicken didnt have to give it back, they WOULDNT. They have written up a 'disclaimer' in their 'contract' . Just because something is in a 'contract' does not mean its LEGAL in the first place.

Obviously Quicken has decided just to shut up the folks who complain to BBB -instead of it actually going to court -LOSING IN COURT -then having to stop charging the upfront fees. Instead, just BULLSHIT the folks they can -unless they go to the extremes . Its a numbers game and quicken thinks most will just lie down and eat it.

as for 'trust' . How do you trust a guy who spouts off 'trust' when he CHARGES AN UPFRONT FEE (so much for trusting the customer hmmmm?) and Quicken themselves just got hit with a multi million dollar judgement to pay back years of interest. Real 'trustworthy'

However, DONT think all banks are like this. I make my living dealing with banks. If you dont want to use a broker, then go to the banks that have a great reputation.

There are too many great lenders to list, so instead i will list the HORSE S**T bait and switch 'lenders' (some quite often sell it immediatly -so in essence a 'broker')

Some dubious lenders are just 'brokers' with a banking licence. This means they act like a bank -funding the loan- but then immediatly sell it to another bank or investor group.It aint much diff than being a broker now is it? Especially if they had no intention of keeping the loan in the first place.

the term 'middleman' just doesnt apply to mortgage brokers.

Here are the banks i would steer clear of due to dubious bait and switch and horrible servicing practices:

Ameriquest
Quicken loans
Ditech
Litten Loans
Ocwen Bank
Fairbanks Capital

there are others but these are the major rip off players IMHO.

It doesn't matter what your copy of the Deposit Agreement say, mine say what I quoted (I did not leave out any words or add any words). But the real fact is that Quicken Loans had to return my money back to me only because I've file a complaint with the BBB. If my complaint wasn't valid, I don't think I would be getting my deposit back, simple as that.

Whomever this 'quicken' guy is , he likes to lie a lot.

Retail rates, being that quicken directly sells loans to consumers, are NEVER as good as 'wholesale' rates , which brokers get from lenders, and pass them on to consumers. Its a fact of life.

Now of course you can pull out the old trump card that there are ripoff artists out there. Ameriquest sure fits that bill. Arent they a DIRECT lender? Hmmmmm.....

My 1% fee is cheap. No, i dont have ANY 600 , 500, 400 or even 300k mortgages to get a 3k fee.
I work in florida and my average loan amount is about 120k.

As for HELOCS? Like i said, if i cant get them a better rate, then i shoot them over to the bank , because there is no value. If i can, they can choose a no closing cost and the lender pays me 'broker compensation' which does not come from the borrower. Its also 'no cost'

When direct lenders say 'deal direct' and avoid 'middleman fees' such as my 1%, they FORGET to mention that they also therefore get RETAIL RATES -which cost them much much more over the life of the loan. I have no 'hidden fees' nor do i take YSP. Lenders dont WANT you to go to a broker, because they cant charge as much interest. they have a middleman taking a cut.

But this post isnt about me, or the fact a large percentage of loans are done thru brokers. Its this ridiculous idea of charging people an 'application fee' which i couldnt for the life of me have the GALL to charge someone who might not even get the loan.

This is a ripoff complaint about the 'application fee' and isnt about anything else. I suggest to all that read, whether you go to a direct lender OR broker, DO NOT hand over a cent to anyone except pay for the appraisal at the door. And thats ONLY if the lender/broker says you have been 'prequaled' thru their criteria and credit.

If they say they 'need' this money, and its 'guaranteed' -then why do they 'need' it upfront? It just causes extra paperwork. The only thing they 'need' is an appraisal which you can pay for at the door. No 'need' to send it to Quicken then on to the appraiser. As for the credit report, i too have to pay for it, but dont charge my poor borrowers if they cant qualify. Thats petty. Its the cost of doing business.

The reason they 'need' it is of course if you dont qualify, they MAKE SOME END OFF IT. Why else would they charge an upfront fee?

I am no different than most of the brokers i know. We dont pull these stupid stunts on people.We are in it for the long term.

p.s. by the way........DIDNT QUICKEN LOANS JUST GET NAILED FOR A HUGE MULTI MILLION DOLLAR LAWSUIT WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN ORDERED TO PAY BACK MILLIONS (IF NOT MORE) IN INTEREST THEY OWE BORROWERS? TYPE IN QUICKEN LOANS INTO A SEARCH BAR AND SEE WHAT POPS OUT.

wanna deny that too?

Whomever this 'quicken' guy is , he likes to lie a lot.

Retail rates, being that quicken directly sells loans to consumers, are NEVER as good as 'wholesale' rates , which brokers get from lenders, and pass them on to consumers. Its a fact of life.

Now of course you can pull out the old trump card that there are ripoff artists out there. Ameriquest sure fits that bill. Arent they a DIRECT lender? Hmmmmm.....

My 1% fee is cheap. No, i dont have ANY 600 , 500, 400 or even 300k mortgages to get a 3k fee.
I work in florida and my average loan amount is about 120k.

As for HELOCS? Like i said, if i cant get them a better rate, then i shoot them over to the bank , because there is no value. If i can, they can choose a no closing cost and the lender pays me 'broker compensation' which does not come from the borrower. Its also 'no cost'

When direct lenders say 'deal direct' and avoid 'middleman fees' such as my 1%, they FORGET to mention that they also therefore get RETAIL RATES -which cost them much much more over the life of the loan. I have no 'hidden fees' nor do i take YSP. Lenders dont WANT you to go to a broker, because they cant charge as much interest. they have a middleman taking a cut.

But this post isnt about me, or the fact a large percentage of loans are done thru brokers. Its this ridiculous idea of charging people an 'application fee' which i couldnt for the life of me have the GALL to charge someone who might not even get the loan.

This is a ripoff complaint about the 'application fee' and isnt about anything else. I suggest to all that read, whether you go to a direct lender OR broker, DO NOT hand over a cent to anyone except pay for the appraisal at the door. And thats ONLY if the lender/broker says you have been 'prequaled' thru their criteria and credit.

If they say they 'need' this money, and its 'guaranteed' -then why do they 'need' it upfront? It just causes extra paperwork. The only thing they 'need' is an appraisal which you can pay for at the door. No 'need' to send it to Quicken then on to the appraiser. As for the credit report, i too have to pay for it, but dont charge my poor borrowers if they cant qualify. Thats petty. Its the cost of doing business.

The reason they 'need' it is of course if you dont qualify, they MAKE SOME END OFF IT. Why else would they charge an upfront fee?

I am no different than most of the brokers i know. We dont pull these stupid stunts on people.We are in it for the long term.

p.s. by the way........DIDNT QUICKEN LOANS JUST GET NAILED FOR A HUGE MULTI MILLION DOLLAR LAWSUIT WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN ORDERED TO PAY BACK MILLIONS (IF NOT MORE) IN INTEREST THEY OWE BORROWERS? TYPE IN QUICKEN LOANS INTO A SEARCH BAR AND SEE WHAT POPS OUT.

wanna deny that too?

Whomever this 'quicken' guy is , he likes to lie a lot.

Retail rates, being that quicken directly sells loans to consumers, are NEVER as good as 'wholesale' rates , which brokers get from lenders, and pass them on to consumers. Its a fact of life.

Now of course you can pull out the old trump card that there are ripoff artists out there. Ameriquest sure fits that bill. Arent they a DIRECT lender? Hmmmmm.....

My 1% fee is cheap. No, i dont have ANY 600 , 500, 400 or even 300k mortgages to get a 3k fee.
I work in florida and my average loan amount is about 120k.

As for HELOCS? Like i said, if i cant get them a better rate, then i shoot them over to the bank , because there is no value. If i can, they can choose a no closing cost and the lender pays me 'broker compensation' which does not come from the borrower. Its also 'no cost'

When direct lenders say 'deal direct' and avoid 'middleman fees' such as my 1%, they FORGET to mention that they also therefore get RETAIL RATES -which cost them much much more over the life of the loan. I have no 'hidden fees' nor do i take YSP. Lenders dont WANT you to go to a broker, because they cant charge as much interest. they have a middleman taking a cut.

But this post isnt about me, or the fact a large percentage of loans are done thru brokers. Its this ridiculous idea of charging people an 'application fee' which i couldnt for the life of me have the GALL to charge someone who might not even get the loan.

This is a ripoff complaint about the 'application fee' and isnt about anything else. I suggest to all that read, whether you go to a direct lender OR broker, DO NOT hand over a cent to anyone except pay for the appraisal at the door. And thats ONLY if the lender/broker says you have been 'prequaled' thru their criteria and credit.

If they say they 'need' this money, and its 'guaranteed' -then why do they 'need' it upfront? It just causes extra paperwork. The only thing they 'need' is an appraisal which you can pay for at the door. No 'need' to send it to Quicken then on to the appraiser. As for the credit report, i too have to pay for it, but dont charge my poor borrowers if they cant qualify. Thats petty. Its the cost of doing business.

The reason they 'need' it is of course if you dont qualify, they MAKE SOME END OFF IT. Why else would they charge an upfront fee?

I am no different than most of the brokers i know. We dont pull these stupid stunts on people.We are in it for the long term.

p.s. by the way........DIDNT QUICKEN LOANS JUST GET NAILED FOR A HUGE MULTI MILLION DOLLAR LAWSUIT WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN ORDERED TO PAY BACK MILLIONS (IF NOT MORE) IN INTEREST THEY OWE BORROWERS? TYPE IN QUICKEN LOANS INTO A SEARCH BAR AND SEE WHAT POPS OUT.

wanna deny that too?

Whomever this 'quicken' guy is , he likes to lie a lot.

Retail rates, being that quicken directly sells loans to consumers, are NEVER as good as 'wholesale' rates , which brokers get from lenders, and pass them on to consumers. Its a fact of life.

Now of course you can pull out the old trump card that there are ripoff artists out there. Ameriquest sure fits that bill. Arent they a DIRECT lender? Hmmmmm.....

My 1% fee is cheap. No, i dont have ANY 600 , 500, 400 or even 300k mortgages to get a 3k fee.
I work in florida and my average loan amount is about 120k.

As for HELOCS? Like i said, if i cant get them a better rate, then i shoot them over to the bank , because there is no value. If i can, they can choose a no closing cost and the lender pays me 'broker compensation' which does not come from the borrower. Its also 'no cost'

When direct lenders say 'deal direct' and avoid 'middleman fees' such as my 1%, they FORGET to mention that they also therefore get RETAIL RATES -which cost them much much more over the life of the loan. I have no 'hidden fees' nor do i take YSP. Lenders dont WANT you to go to a broker, because they cant charge as much interest. they have a middleman taking a cut.

But this post isnt about me, or the fact a large percentage of loans are done thru brokers. Its this ridiculous idea of charging people an 'application fee' which i couldnt for the life of me have the GALL to charge someone who might not even get the loan.

This is a ripoff complaint about the 'application fee' and isnt about anything else. I suggest to all that read, whether you go to a direct lender OR broker, DO NOT hand over a cent to anyone except pay for the appraisal at the door. And thats ONLY if the lender/broker says you have been 'prequaled' thru their criteria and credit.

If they say they 'need' this money, and its 'guaranteed' -then why do they 'need' it upfront? It just causes extra paperwork. The only thing they 'need' is an appraisal which you can pay for at the door. No 'need' to send it to Quicken then on to the appraiser. As for the credit report, i too have to pay for it, but dont charge my poor borrowers if they cant qualify. Thats petty. Its the cost of doing business.

The reason they 'need' it is of course if you dont qualify, they MAKE SOME END OFF IT. Why else would they charge an upfront fee?

I am no different than most of the brokers i know. We dont pull these stupid stunts on people.We are in it for the long term.

p.s. by the way........DIDNT QUICKEN LOANS JUST GET NAILED FOR A HUGE MULTI MILLION DOLLAR LAWSUIT WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN ORDERED TO PAY BACK MILLIONS (IF NOT MORE) IN INTEREST THEY OWE BORROWERS? TYPE IN QUICKEN LOANS INTO A SEARCH BAR AND SEE WHAT POPS OUT.

wanna deny that too?

If any one reading this wants to see for themselves what the actual agreement says, I will fax it to you. We both quoted directly from the agreement, however my frend Tri forgot some of it. It is in black and white. End of story.

I quoted the Deposit Agreement word for word. There is nothing on there that stated about me not getting my deposit back if I decide to withdraw. Jay, if I can photocopy this Deposit Agreement on this page, I would. Whatever I quoted is the actually Deposit Agreement, nothing more and nothing less. I read this statement before I signed, that is why I agreed to give Quicken Loans the $500. I wouldn't have given them the $500 if I thought I couldn't get my money back if things didn't work out. Jay, there is no half truth about what I'm saying. You obviously are working for Quicken Loans. Please keep your comment coming, it is very helpful to everyone to know what Quicken Loans is all about....

Everything you wrote about the deposit is 100% accurate. Word-for-word like you cut it off the application package and pasted it on the website. You did, however, leave some things out. And I quote:

"The deposit will not ("not" is bold and underlined) be refunded if you: don't fully cooperate in or complete the application process (including submitting all required documentation in a timely manner), choose to withdraw your application, or choose not to close the transaction for any reason (including changing interest rates)."

As usual, someone gave half of the truth. How much clearer can that be? If you choose not to proceed with the process then you will not get your money back.

Quicken didn't handle this particular situation with the care they should have. They were right to deny the refund but it sounds like they could have handled the situation better. The truth always lies in the middle when you have two extreme stories. That is what emotion does, it clouds the facts. The fact is that this person signed a legal document explaining the deposit agreement in full, backed out of the agreement, and went to the better business bureau to get their money back. Good scam.

Quicken Loans closes 11,000 loans per month and there is always one of these people out there who don't hold commitments and then file complaints. 11,000/month, thats 132,000 loans per year and how many complaints do you see on here??

I have worked for many brokers (I do the paperwork and notary work). Usually, the brokers require the processing fee, the credit report fee and if required an appriasal fee. That is usually around 400 to 500. Also realize that if they don't get the appriasal numbers they want, they may require another or even two more to average it out.

Customers know this up front and why, it becomes part of their HUD-1 and so they know where the money is going.

1% broker fee is cheap, most of the brokers I work with charge as little as 2.75 and as much as 4.5% depending on what their client base is.

Obviously, they are going to charge more processing and a larger broker fee for sub-prime, assuming they are even willing to go that route.

Just some notes.

I have worked for many brokers (I do the paperwork and notary work). Usually, the brokers require the processing fee, the credit report fee and if required an appriasal fee. That is usually around 400 to 500. Also realize that if they don't get the appriasal numbers they want, they may require another or even two more to average it out.

Customers know this up front and why, it becomes part of their HUD-1 and so they know where the money is going.

1% broker fee is cheap, most of the brokers I work with charge as little as 2.75 and as much as 4.5% depending on what their client base is.

Obviously, they are going to charge more processing and a larger broker fee for sub-prime, assuming they are even willing to go that route.

Just some notes.

I have worked for many brokers (I do the paperwork and notary work). Usually, the brokers require the processing fee, the credit report fee and if required an appriasal fee. That is usually around 400 to 500. Also realize that if they don't get the appriasal numbers they want, they may require another or even two more to average it out.

Customers know this up front and why, it becomes part of their HUD-1 and so they know where the money is going.

1% broker fee is cheap, most of the brokers I work with charge as little as 2.75 and as much as 4.5% depending on what their client base is.

Obviously, they are going to charge more processing and a larger broker fee for sub-prime, assuming they are even willing to go that route.

Just some notes.

First of all, I made sure that I could get my $500 deposit back if it didn't work out with Quicken Loans. The Deposit Agreement I signed stated, "With your deposit of $500, you authorize Lender to begin processing your loan application and advance out-of-pocket expenses on your behalf. You authorize Lender to charge this deposit amount to your credit card. Lender willl not accept a check or cash. If your application is approved: At the closing , Lender will credit the amount of your deposit on your closing statement toward the cost of your appraisal and credit report. Any additional money will be credited to other closing costs.

If your application is denied or withdrawn for any reason: Lender will refund your deposit less the cost of your appraisal and/or credit report."
What more can I say, this is a direct quote on the agreement. Even when I read this to the mortgage bankers I was dealing with, they still said I will not get my deposit back. And they did not say this nicely. When I called their business department, they told me I can only get my deposit back if the mortgage banker OK'd it. Of course there are emotions involve if you feel like you are being lied to.

Jay, you can give all these excuses but in the end Quiken Loans had to give my deposit back only because the Better Business Bureau became involved. This is why I'm writing this, so that hopefully other people will read this and get the word out about Quiken Loans. I'm sure QL have scared many of their client into signing...but there are many people like me that are not scared that easy. Thanks Jay for your comments...you have been very helpful and informative to me.

Three things:

1. Quicken Loans does not charge an application fee. I accept $300-$500 up front from every one of my clients (depending if an appraisal is needed). If they get the application, don't sign it, and decide not to proceed with the loan then their deposit is never charged. However, if they sign the application and we move forward with the process then we do process the deposit and start working on their loan. If something happens with a low appraisal then the unused portion of the deposit is credited back to the client. If the loan is 10 or more days into the process then Quicken should keep the deposit because they have spent much more than the extra $200 on that loan. That part is a judgement call though.

2. Tri, I am sorry about your personal experience in respect with Quicken Loans but it seems as the complaint is based more on emotion rather than fact. First of all, you admit that you wouldn't listen to the mortgage banker when they were trying to explain why there seemed to be a difference in the rate/payment. This is the first breakdown. I can tell by your choice language that you are an educated, sophisticated person and I'm sure you realize that there are many different ways to get you a lower rate (different program, prepayment penalty, buydown, etc.) and the best thing to do is compare the exact same programs to see which is the better deal.

My clients don't yell at me and I don't yell at them. I build relationships with my clients and I make sure they are taken care of. It sounds like the client wasn't open to listening and the situation wasn't handled in the best manner by Quicken. I am glad you got your money back though. If you respond to this, could you please clean up your words? I don't mind debating but you are losing credibility with that type of language.

3. Tom, your stand is somewhat laughable in some respects. Going to a broker for a mortgage is giving all of your trust and money and possibly tour future home (if you are buying) to one company while a totally seperate company is responsible for the close. That is not a good idea. In all fairness, there are a ton of brokers out there and some I know personally are actually good at what they do. That means they care about their clients. The problem comes when they quote a client some figures but don't actually control them. They can't lock your interest rate from their desk, but most will tell you that your rate is locked. I would get proof of this when they say it because what many do is not lock your rate and hope for them to drop a little so they can pocket the extra money. Or they wait to maybe get a shorter rate lock and that makes them extra money too. The problem is when they go up a little then that is when the numbers change at close. Sometimes the broker doesn't know what the lender has done with the program. They may have added a prepayment penalty to get you the interest rate promised. Then you find out at close, call the broker, and you can't get a hold of them or there is nothing they can do about it because it is out of their hands now. Not a good situation to be in. I call every one of my clients the day they are closing and let them know that I will be available if they have any questions.

1% broker fee.. I love this because it sounds small. After all, 1% of a 40,000 HELOC is $400 right? What about a $600,000 home in Cali? $6000. WOW!!! How cheap is that?? Quicken has set fees for HELOCS- $0, and for first mortgages-- $575.

Sounds to me like someone is getting rich off of their clients and comes off as an angel.

Three things:

1. Quicken Loans does not charge an application fee. I accept $300-$500 up front from every one of my clients (depending if an appraisal is needed). If they get the application, don't sign it, and decide not to proceed with the loan then their deposit is never charged. However, if they sign the application and we move forward with the process then we do process the deposit and start working on their loan. If something happens with a low appraisal then the unused portion of the deposit is credited back to the client. If the loan is 10 or more days into the process then Quicken should keep the deposit because they have spent much more than the extra $200 on that loan. That part is a judgement call though.

2. Tri, I am sorry about your personal experience in respect with Quicken Loans but it seems as the complaint is based more on emotion rather than fact. First of all, you admit that you wouldn't listen to the mortgage banker when they were trying to explain why there seemed to be a difference in the rate/payment. This is the first breakdown. I can tell by your choice language that you are an educated, sophisticated person and I'm sure you realize that there are many different ways to get you a lower rate (different program, prepayment penalty, buydown, etc.) and the best thing to do is compare the exact same programs to see which is the better deal.

My clients don't yell at me and I don't yell at them. I build relationships with my clients and I make sure they are taken care of. It sounds like the client wasn't open to listening and the situation wasn't handled in the best manner by Quicken. I am glad you got your money back though. If you respond to this, could you please clean up your words? I don't mind debating but you are losing credibility with that type of language.

3. Tom, your stand is somewhat laughable in some respects. Going to a broker for a mortgage is giving all of your trust and money and possibly tour future home (if you are buying) to one company while a totally seperate company is responsible for the close. That is not a good idea. In all fairness, there are a ton of brokers out there and some I know personally are actually good at what they do. That means they care about their clients. The problem comes when they quote a client some figures but don't actually control them. They can't lock your interest rate from their desk, but most will tell you that your rate is locked. I would get proof of this when they say it because what many do is not lock your rate and hope for them to drop a little so they can pocket the extra money. Or they wait to maybe get a shorter rate lock and that makes them extra money too. The problem is when they go up a little then that is when the numbers change at close. Sometimes the broker doesn't know what the lender has done with the program. They may have added a prepayment penalty to get you the interest rate promised. Then you find out at close, call the broker, and you can't get a hold of them or there is nothing they can do about it because it is out of their hands now. Not a good situation to be in. I call every one of my clients the day they are closing and let them know that I will be available if they have any questions.

1% broker fee.. I love this because it sounds small. After all, 1% of a 40,000 HELOC is $400 right? What about a $600,000 home in Cali? $6000. WOW!!! How cheap is that?? Quicken has set fees for HELOCS- $0, and for first mortgages-- $575.

Sounds to me like someone is getting rich off of their clients and comes off as an angel.

Three things:

1. Quicken Loans does not charge an application fee. I accept $300-$500 up front from every one of my clients (depending if an appraisal is needed). If they get the application, don't sign it, and decide not to proceed with the loan then their deposit is never charged. However, if they sign the application and we move forward with the process then we do process the deposit and start working on their loan. If something happens with a low appraisal then the unused portion of the deposit is credited back to the client. If the loan is 10 or more days into the process then Quicken should keep the deposit because they have spent much more than the extra $200 on that loan. That part is a judgement call though.

2. Tri, I am sorry about your personal experience in respect with Quicken Loans but it seems as the complaint is based more on emotion rather than fact. First of all, you admit that you wouldn't listen to the mortgage banker when they were trying to explain why there seemed to be a difference in the rate/payment. This is the first breakdown. I can tell by your choice language that you are an educated, sophisticated person and I'm sure you realize that there are many different ways to get you a lower rate (different program, prepayment penalty, buydown, etc.) and the best thing to do is compare the exact same programs to see which is the better deal.

My clients don't yell at me and I don't yell at them. I build relationships with my clients and I make sure they are taken care of. It sounds like the client wasn't open to listening and the situation wasn't handled in the best manner by Quicken. I am glad you got your money back though. If you respond to this, could you please clean up your words? I don't mind debating but you are losing credibility with that type of language.

3. Tom, your stand is somewhat laughable in some respects. Going to a broker for a mortgage is giving all of your trust and money and possibly tour future home (if you are buying) to one company while a totally seperate company is responsible for the close. That is not a good idea. In all fairness, there are a ton of brokers out there and some I know personally are actually good at what they do. That means they care about their clients. The problem comes when they quote a client some figures but don't actually control them. They can't lock your interest rate from their desk, but most will tell you that your rate is locked. I would get proof of this when they say it because what many do is not lock your rate and hope for them to drop a little so they can pocket the extra money. Or they wait to maybe get a shorter rate lock and that makes them extra money too. The problem is when they go up a little then that is when the numbers change at close. Sometimes the broker doesn't know what the lender has done with the program. They may have added a prepayment penalty to get you the interest rate promised. Then you find out at close, call the broker, and you can't get a hold of them or there is nothing they can do about it because it is out of their hands now. Not a good situation to be in. I call every one of my clients the day they are closing and let them know that I will be available if they have any questions.

1% broker fee.. I love this because it sounds small. After all, 1% of a 40,000 HELOC is $400 right? What about a $600,000 home in Cali? $6000. WOW!!! How cheap is that?? Quicken has set fees for HELOCS- $0, and for first mortgages-- $575.

Sounds to me like someone is getting rich off of their clients and comes off as an angel.

To anyone that decide to take a chance with Quicken Loans, I can't stress this enough. When you sign the agreement to hand over the $500 deposit, there is a clause on there that states that if you are denied approval or you decide to withdraw from Quicken Loans, you can get your deposit back minus the appraisal ($250-$300) and credit report ($25-$35) fees. They will tell you different. They will start playing the transfer the phone game with you hoping you will give up. I've got part of the deposit back by filing with the Better Business Bureau in Michigan. $207 is what I got back.... Don't let them get over you on this!!!! Here's the website... easternmichiganbbb.org/main/reports.html

Good luck

I love how quicken loans makes you pay an application fee. The fee is to 'lock you in' with them as a deterrent to going elsewhere. Its tough to go elsewhere when you are already out $500 bucks.

Ditech offers these plastered almost impossible to qualify for interest rates -then a mountain of disclaimers in the background you cant clearly read or have time to read on the tv screen. Great scam there.

We all know about ameriquest. no need to go there.

Credit unions are great. Mom and Pop places. Trusted. Local. Same as local banks. Credit unions are NOT very strong on 30 year fixeds. They cant compete with wholesale rates . This is how i make my living.

I am a mortgage broker who operates only locally within my community. Everyone i use is local. Title, appraiser etc.

My lenders are state of the art lenders for every scenerio. I use 2 banks for 30 year fixed. They can beat every lender in the country who sells direct to the homeowner. This is my value to my borrowers.

I use chase and citi for HELOCS and seconds. Homeowners can under special circumstances get the same deal from their bank without me -saving my 1% fee. Quite often if they qualify, i just shoot them over to the bank instead of doing the loan for them.

I find it HORRIFYING that anyone would try to charge a 'fee ' for application. Whats stopping them from then giving the homeowner horrible terms. Either take the terms or get burned the $500 bucks? How do these pricks sleep at night.

To the original author:

GOOD FOR YOU GETTING AWAY FROM THESE PRICKS. The $500 you spent is well worth the much better rate and terms you got from your credit union.

I'm having trouble with how Quicken Loans is treating customer. I really don't care how many different loan program they have because I don't have any trouble getting a loan. But when they were about to lose me as a customer, they started bringing in more people to work on me and try to scare me into believing that other banks will not approve a loan for me. They told me I will not get my deposit back because they done so much already. Well, I've file a complaint with the BBB and low and behold, my deposit was credit back to me. If they were right, I would get my deposit back. There are probably many people they use this technique on that didn't think about going to the BBB. It is this technique they were using that I'm angry about. Jay, do you yell at your customers or threaten to hang up on them when you don't feel like listening to them. Quicken Loans was very unprofessional. They really need to take a class in PR 101...And one more thing... Jay, you suck Quicken's azz all day long don't you!!

Quicken, Amerisave, Ditech, Greenlight, Countrywide, AMC and all the others operate the same as the complaintant would have found out, had he continued on with Amerisave. He made the right decision going to his credit union. I am quite sure in the years to come, he will be happy with his interest rate, and dealing with the credit union. Why? The credit union, local mortgage brokers and his own bank will properly treat their customers. TV, online companies are mostly RIPOFFS! Why this Congress won't pass laws "outlawing" these companies from doing business, I don't know....but something should be done about it! Anytime ANY mortgage professional demands a deposit larger than $50.00 when taking an application....the customer should scream and run away! $50.00 may be required to pay for credit report and electronic approval...and for those customers that haven't any loyalty or are stupid enough to believe that they can always get a interest rate BELOW market....with better service...these costs must be covered or the Loan Officer will be liable for these costs....and ulimately then he too will start to demand a larger deposit in order to cover "past" losses from previous customers....and the beat goes on. The Lending Tree has it's own company...the Home Loan Center....that constantly abuses the customer that contacts the Lending Tree. The most recent TV commerical of a woman "going with Lending Tree, instead of her own Bank where she works is absolutley hilarious! That woman is too stupid to work for the Bank!!! Incredibly, Lending Tree wants the American public to believe that TV commerical! That scenario would never happen as most banks will waive many of the closing costs for employees....and give a premium interest rate! Only if the bank didn't do a sub-prime home loan....because of poor credit, would a company like Lending Tree be capable of doing a loan for an employee of a bank! If TV marketing doesn't destroy the world of capitalism....I don't know what will!

To say that credit unions always have lower rates than anybody is incorrect. Granted, they typically lend money and back the loan for the entire term of that loan so there are circumstances where they will lose a little in interest rate to gain or keep a member/client. However, we all know that interest rates on different programs come from different places. Some from the LIBOR while others tied to the 10 year or 2 year bond and most lenders will be within an 1/8th of eachother when we compare apples to apples.

One thing we want to keep in mind is that your credit union has 5 different loan programs. This limits your options and can cost you thousands of extra dollars if their specific program doesn't suit your goals. Quicken has over 100 programs and has specifically taylored them to fit specific needs (low credit score, interest only, tax smart, conforming, non-conforming, etc.) This is where the biggest difference is, not in the 1/8% ($7/month).

Mortgages are not the main focus of their business. It is like shopping at Meijer or K-Mart for golf clubs. They have some there that are reasonably priced but wouldn't you rather go to Golf World or Carl's Golf Land? You can get a steak at any local supermarket but you will get better quality meat from a butcher.

Credit unions are fine businesses, I a m a member myself. They do have their hands in many other endeavors. Quicken Loans only concentrates on mortgages, 11,000 of them per month.

The bottom line is that you should compare reputable businesses when making an investment of this magnitude. You will find that most places are within 1/8% of each other and what it really boils down to is getting the perfect program for your unique situation.

After reading you report it is very obvious that you are an employee at quicken loans. If you really worked for a credit union there is no way you would lose loans to quicken. Credit unions have better rates and charge less fees. Anyone with real mortgage experience would know this!

First off I am a loan officer for a credit union and hear a lot of people talking about Quicken Loans, so I decided to do some research on them. I do research on a lot of the the larger lenders, because they obviously must be doing something right in order to be a large and respectable company.

I am replying a borrower in prariesville, louisiana. First of all, with all of those grammar problems, I don't know if he/she even took the time to understand what the loan officers were saying in the first place.

Nobody can be perfect, so all companies will make mistakes, but I don't believe Quicken Loans is in this business to make $500 deposits.

The thing that got me frustrated with this story is that they agreed to the deposit, but then continued to shop around. I get frustrated with that, because if a loan officer is going to take his/her time to get the mortgage going for you, then you should be commited to them.

Interest rates are a commodity, which means they are just like gas. The one thing I tell all of my customers is this: I would rather pay a little more in costs and have fantastic service, rather than pay a little less in costs and work with a company called AmeriService or whoever the hell they might be. They are probably a broker that is quoting you an interest rate that they can't even get.

In conclusion, I don't know if QL is in the business to get people's $500 deposit, but the one thing i do know is that they are a very good company and I lose a lot of clients to them. I hope more people will start looking at mortgage companies as business's that give you money and not take your money.

Chris-MN